or should I say yahoo!? Since that's who posted it... Anyways, this is cool! Can't wait until Debian has it. Now maybe people in #slashdot can stop asking when it's gonna get posted!!!
Cool, but some systems, like Alphas, have had this since they were created. It is very handy for headless systems too! Besides that you could always put that terminal you always wanted in the bedroom so you can code, code, code! I want a terminal in the bathroom, kitchen, and especially the living room. That way I can code during comercials without missing the start of a show or keep up on the latest mail with mutt or pine. (mutt rules all mailers BTW)
I'll second gnapster, it works VERY well here. In fact I think it works a LOT better then the official windows version behind a firewall.. course that could be Linux vs windows.. hmm...
Compaq decided a 32-bit OS on a 64-bit platform (Alpha) that had a low market share, wasn't worth putting out lots of money for. So Compaq said there were gonna stop supporting 32-bit NT on Alpha and was going to pick up where they left off when 64-bit NT finally arrived. Unfortunatly (for those who got the short end of the stick) M$ decided to kill NT on Alpha off completely! The end result is NT is just like Win9x in that it only runs on x86-based systems. Maybe they can write NT/2000/whatever in assembly now and get some decent speed out of it! *grin*
Aarrrggghhh... It was not MS that gave up - it was Compaq!!!! Compaq decided to drop support for NT on Alpha!!
Partly true. Compaq decided to stop making 32-bit NT on Alpha. It was M$ that decided to kill off NT on Alpha completely!
Who do you think had to maintain Alpha/NT? Clue: Not MS. Yes, DEC/Compaq had to pay for a complete NT software development dept., because DEC/Compaq had to do the maintenance. (same thing when NT used to run on PPC - IBM had to maintain it, until they realised it didn't sell).
M$ had to do some of it. Compaq did most of the work though. Yes I imagine the same is what killed PowerPC and MIPS support.
Then some bright spark looked at the figures and realised that nobody was buying NT on Alpha. It's best marketshare was on workstations - ~15%!! On servers it was even worse - because people who tend to buy nice hardware like Alpha also tend to buy nice OS's like OpenVMS or Unix. People were not spending money on Alpha/NT.
I'm not sure about the percentage, but it is probably close.
They put 2 and 2 together and realised that paying for NT/Alpha was costing more than the revenues generated by Alpha/NT sales. And that's why it was scrapped. The biggest money maker on Alpha is Unix, closely followed by VMS.
Yes and people wanted 64-bit NT, not crappy 32-bit OS on a 64-bit platform.
Also, look how hard compaq is pushing Linux on Alpha. This is for the same reason as why NT was dropped - money. Linux sells a lot of Alpha's.. esp in the lower end, eg Linux marketshare on DS10's is about 40% or higher... it also does well on clusters. And Compaq is pushing linux/alpha clusters really hard.
Yep, Linux on Alpha kicks ass and Compaq knows it!
(my mouse mat is a picture of tux on a fat motorcycle with the Compaq Alpha logo, and a banner saying "Linux SCREEEEAMMMS on Compaq Alpha".. this is an official compaq mousemat)
Cool! Where did you get that?
in fact this Alpha cluster will most likely run linux..
No, it runs Tru64 UNIX with Tru64 clustering software. Like or not, Tru64 UNIX can still kick ever other OS's ass. Don't get me wrong! I love Linux and run it on everything I can, including my Alphas. Linux just doesn't scale that high yet. The largest AlphaServers Linux runs on is the 4100's. Where Tru64 runs on all of the Compaq branded Alphas (except a few NT-only systems that were called "white boxes"). The system will be mostlikely a wildfire system, probably multiple 128-way systems. My point here is that Linux runs great on lower end 1 - 4 way AlphaServers, but that's as far as the support goes. FreeBSD support is still maturing and I do not know how well NetBSD scales. I do not NetBSD runs on AlphaServer 8400's. Anyway anything over a 4100 you'll have to run Tru64 UNIX or OpenVMS.
Oh give me a break! This was yesterday's news and I wouldn't be surprised if many ppl submitted it yesterday as well. Also, hitting the 1 GHz marker has no real significance, as a G4 500 MHz will probably still outperform an Intel 1GHz processor.
I mostly agree, althought it would be more like a 7xxMHz G4 rather then a 500MHz. On the same note a 500MHz 21264 Alpha would out do a 1GHz x86. Why don't they try improving the core processor (like Compaq did with the 21264 vs 21164) instead of just upping the clock speed?
It was a very interesting article and I think putting Linux on these old beasts is a good thing(tm). I would like to point out a few things:
Alphas are not "PC" quality or speed! There are only two (new) Alphas that I can think of that are less then $5,000 USD, the DS10 and the UP1000-based systems. The DS20, one very popular system, is over $10,000 USD. Last time I checked a dual processor DS20 was $16,000 USD (I think). The only Alpha I can think of that could be called "PC" quality was the AlphaPC 164SX which has been out of production for some time. A AlphaServer GS140, a 14 processor system, costs about $500,000 USD and are definitely not "PC" quality. The Wildfire (32, 64, and 128-way systems) will be available later this year and are definitely not "PC" quality. The Galaxy systems support running multiple operating systems simultaneous, so this is not a feature unique to IBM "mainframes".
I am sure there are many people out there that would agree with me that OpenVMS is not a "PC" operating system! It runs on Alpha and according to the article Alphas are "PC". So OpenVMS must be a "PC" operating system?:-/
The people who worked on this do not deserve "virtual beer" they deserve the real thing!
Some UMAX scanners work great, others not at all. I have a Astra 1200s and it works very well! It's speed is quite acceptable and it's quality is seems to be great. Although the scanner itself supports higher resolutions then SANE can actually handle.:( I have heard several people say the 1220s works as well as the 1200s. As usual YMMV!
I agree. Things started going down hill when they started getting money. The most noticable was when Andover bought them. Don't get me wrong, I'm not trying to put down Andover, but that's when things started to go down hill...
Yes, there is a big difference between the "disappearing" stories and explaining why it was pulled IMO.
Is it just me or is there a little "1" everwhere there should be a "'" in Katz' reply's? I've seen other odd things from articles that were written with M$ products, but the small "1" is a new one to me.
Just about anything can be crammed into a rackmount case, but can you BUY it that way? Otherwise you end up spending too much time and money; buy the box, buy a new case, move components from old case to new... You get the idea?!?
Plenty clear, but can you get them in a nice sleek rackmount? Can you get a Mac without the MacOS preinstalled? Why not feed the trolls? Are you afraid of paying the toll to cross the bridge?
Slashdot Mirror
I want one of those flying train like in BTTF III. That'd be a lot of fun!
rbf aka pulsar
This is good, the more commercial "options" the more we can displace NT! :)
rbf aka pulsar
That's good they are not going to create a bunch of new useless laws.. but ya gotta wonder what their hidden agenda with this is!
rbf aka pulsar
x-box? I don't like the name, it makes it sound like it's running X. Doesn't it?
rbf aka pulsar
Alphas nice systems and I hope this helps the Debian GNU/Linux Alpha port! It's been needing help lately...
rbf aka pulsar
I can't wait until Mozilla makes a non-alpha or beta release! BTW, why does the logo look like China's flag?
rbf aka pulsar
Linux on x86 or multiplatorm?
rbf aka pulsar
So when can I buy a toaster with Linux inside?
rbf aka pulsar
or should I say yahoo!? Since that's who posted it... Anyways, this is cool! Can't wait until Debian has it. Now maybe people in #slashdot can stop asking when it's gonna get posted!!!
rbf aka pulsar
Cool, but some systems, like Alphas, have had this since they were created. It is very handy for headless systems too! Besides that you could always put that terminal you always wanted in the bedroom so you can code, code, code! I want a terminal in the bathroom, kitchen, and especially the living room. That way I can code during comercials without missing the start of a show or keep up on the latest mail with mutt or pine. (mutt rules all mailers BTW)
I'll second gnapster, it works VERY well here. In fact I think it works a LOT better then the official windows version behind a firewall.. course that could be Linux vs windows.. hmm...
Did MS bail on the Alpha?
Compaq decided a 32-bit OS on a 64-bit platform (Alpha) that had a low market share, wasn't worth putting out lots of money for. So Compaq said there were gonna stop supporting 32-bit NT on Alpha and was going to pick up where they left off when 64-bit NT finally arrived. Unfortunatly (for those who got the short end of the stick) M$ decided to kill NT on Alpha off completely! The end result is NT is just like Win9x in that it only runs on x86-based systems. Maybe they can write NT/2000/whatever in assembly now and get some decent speed out of it! *grin*
Aarrrggghhh...
It was not MS that gave up - it was Compaq!!!! Compaq decided to drop support for NT on Alpha!!
Partly true. Compaq decided to stop making 32-bit NT on Alpha. It was M$ that decided to kill off NT on Alpha completely!
Who do you think had to maintain Alpha/NT? Clue: Not MS. Yes, DEC/Compaq had to pay for a complete NT software development dept., because DEC/Compaq had to do the maintenance. (same thing when NT used to run on PPC - IBM had to maintain it, until they realised it didn't sell).
M$ had to do some of it. Compaq did most of the work though. Yes I imagine the same is what killed PowerPC and MIPS support.
Then some bright spark looked at the figures and realised that nobody was buying NT on Alpha. It's best marketshare was on workstations - ~15%!! On servers it was even worse - because people who tend to buy nice hardware like Alpha also tend to buy nice OS's like OpenVMS or Unix. People were not spending money on Alpha/NT.
I'm not sure about the percentage, but it is probably close.
They put 2 and 2 together and realised that paying for NT/Alpha was costing more than the revenues generated by Alpha/NT sales. And that's why it was scrapped. The biggest money maker on Alpha is Unix, closely followed by VMS.
Yes and people wanted 64-bit NT, not crappy 32-bit OS on a 64-bit platform.
Also, look how hard compaq is pushing Linux on Alpha. This is for the same reason as why NT was dropped - money. Linux sells a lot of Alpha's.. esp in the lower end, eg Linux marketshare on DS10's is about 40% or higher... it also does well on clusters. And Compaq is pushing linux/alpha clusters really hard.
Yep, Linux on Alpha kicks ass and Compaq knows it!
(my mouse mat is a picture of tux on a fat motorcycle with the Compaq Alpha logo, and a banner saying "Linux SCREEEEAMMMS on Compaq Alpha".. this is an official compaq mousemat)
Cool! Where did you get that?
in fact this Alpha cluster will most likely run linux..
No, it runs Tru64 UNIX with Tru64 clustering software. Like or not, Tru64 UNIX can still kick ever other OS's ass. Don't get me wrong! I love Linux and run it on everything I can, including my Alphas. Linux just doesn't scale that high yet. The largest AlphaServers Linux runs on is the 4100's. Where Tru64 runs on all of the Compaq branded Alphas (except a few NT-only systems that were called "white boxes"). The system will be mostlikely a wildfire system, probably multiple 128-way systems. My point here is that Linux runs great on lower end 1 - 4 way AlphaServers, but that's as far as the support goes. FreeBSD support is still maturing and I do not know how well NetBSD scales. I do not NetBSD runs on AlphaServer 8400's. Anyway anything over a 4100 you'll have to run Tru64 UNIX or OpenVMS.
Oh give me a break! This was yesterday's news and I wouldn't be surprised if many ppl submitted it yesterday as well. Also, hitting the 1 GHz marker has no real significance, as a G4 500 MHz will probably still outperform an Intel 1GHz processor.
I mostly agree, althought it would be more like a 7xxMHz G4 rather then a 500MHz. On the same note a 500MHz 21264 Alpha would out do a 1GHz x86. Why don't they try improving the core processor (like Compaq did with the 21264 vs 21164) instead of just upping the clock speed?
What about Microway's Alpha-based systems? $1995 for a 533MHz 21164...
21164 based systems have been discontiued for some time now, see API's web site. Note the "LX" is marked as "discontinued."
It was a very interesting article and I think putting Linux on these old beasts is a good thing(tm). I would like to point out a few things:
:-/
Alphas are not "PC" quality or speed! There are only two (new) Alphas that I can think of that are less then $5,000 USD, the DS10 and the UP1000-based systems. The DS20, one very popular system, is over $10,000 USD. Last time I checked a dual processor DS20 was $16,000 USD (I think). The only Alpha I can think of that could be called "PC" quality was the AlphaPC 164SX which has been out of production for some time. A AlphaServer GS140, a 14 processor system, costs about $500,000 USD and are definitely not "PC" quality. The Wildfire (32, 64, and 128-way systems) will be available later this year and are definitely not "PC" quality. The Galaxy systems support running multiple operating systems simultaneous, so this is not a feature unique to IBM "mainframes".
I am sure there are many people out there that would agree with me that OpenVMS is not a "PC" operating system! It runs on Alpha and according to the article Alphas are "PC". So OpenVMS must be a "PC" operating system?
The people who worked on this do not deserve "virtual beer" they deserve the real thing!
Some UMAX scanners work great, others not at all. I have a Astra 1200s and it works very well! It's speed is quite acceptable and it's quality is seems to be great. Although the scanner itself supports higher resolutions then SANE can actually handle. :( I have heard several people say the 1220s works as well as the 1200s. As usual YMMV!
I agree. Things started going down hill when they started getting money. The most noticable was when Andover bought them. Don't get me wrong, I'm not trying to put down Andover, but that's when things started to go down hill...
Yes, there is a big difference between the "disappearing" stories and explaining why it was pulled IMO.
Does anyone think the lemon law could be used here? (for those of us in the U.S.)
That's the problem with using Microsoft HTML instead of hand coding it yourself.
... and shorter Katz articles.
Yep, VIM (or your favorite editior) is the best route...
Ah, I long for the days of XHTML compliance
I'll second shorter Katz articles!
Will in Seattle
rbf in Bellingham (about 90 miles north of Seattle).
Is it just me or is there a little "1" everwhere there should be a "'" in Katz' reply's? I've seen other odd things from articles that were written with M$ products, but the small "1" is a new one to me.
Too bad there isn't a RealPlayer for Alpha Linux... That would be kinda useful IMHO.
Just about anything can be crammed into a rackmount case, but can you BUY it that way? Otherwise you end up spending too much time and money; buy the box, buy a new case, move components from old case to new... You get the idea?!?
Plenty clear, but can you get them in a nice sleek rackmount? Can you get a Mac without the MacOS preinstalled? Why not feed the trolls? Are you afraid of paying the toll to cross the bridge?
So? Why would anyone want a cluster where EVERY system has a monitor? It just takes up too much space!