"You seem confused. The answer is NO! a publicly traded companys goal is not to make profit."
So you realize how utterly insane it sounds for anyone to say that the purpose of a public comps y is not to make a profit?
"Look at my Amazon example, almost every company has some investing activity can be tangibles "
And Apples CAPEX is one of the largest in the industry. Amazon has been using the excuse for its meager profits that it has been reinvesting for growth for over 15 years.
"The whole point is that Apple is now growing *slower* than the market, so its market share is lower. Its why apple used to have 23% of the market and now occupies 14.9%, In fact the profit margin of the iphone5 is less than that of its predecessors too just makes it more worrying."
So how has its slower than market growth affected its profitability? How has it affected its third party development support?
"I don't think you understand your Google link. The link I provide is to the financial statements discussed in your [albeit short] article, I actually quote the figures,"
Yes you quoted "revenue" growth that was caused by the money losing Motorola. Growing revenues unprofitabity is not a recipe for success.
"re-read my comment on Google it even covers how Google is expanding beyond advertising...it even owns a phone company:) (like a suggest Apple should)"
Google may be trying to expand but again "right now" 95% of their revenue comes from advertising and their phone company hasn't been competitive for years.
"I would comment on the acquisition of Motorola, but the reason why your maths is completely wrong is tax (and patents). Motorola may look 12.5Billion on the books, but in reality read it http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/08/31/us-motorolamobility-google-tax-idUSTRE77U1QX20110831. The short version is owning Motorola will cuts Googles Tax Bill by 80% It was incredibly good value."
It cuts their tax bill because they lost money.
"As for you criticism of Motorola...LG recently is having a massive success with the Nexus Phone, "
Define "massive success".
"Asus is having massive success with the Nexus Tablet, its likely to be a success...the concern is upsetting its partners."
The last report was one million a month. Not a massive success by any definition.
"I lave looked through you link. I will have to read it better later, but the whole point of it is to choose market share over profits, by cutting price...and do it before your competitors. (although Apple already has many of the Advantages of Scale and brand now...although you can already see it losing these)"
Really? Apple losing scale? The only other company that has any scale to speak of is Samsung.
"HP is trying to move to get money work harder, by getting into different markets as the PC market is mature 5% margin (Microsoft get all the real profit) Although that CEO got sacked. Like I say I'm not comfortable talking about Microsoft."
You really think the margins for Android phones are any better, especially with the Chinese manufacturers moving in?
"i am astonished that Apple cannot make money from the itunes store. Apparently Google/Amazon can. I suspect your just making that up...it currently is small compared to what they make from their hardware...but as I repeatly argue..this one is all about marketshare. Apple have already lost this book/movie/App market to Google/Amazon."
Uhh, Apple's App Store revenue is still 4x that of Google. And where are you getting your figures for movies? As far as "losing" the book market. Amazon's was in the market first and Apple tool market share away from Amazon.
So how do you know how profitable the Google Play store is?
"I don't argue the market is rational, but money is normally pretty unbiased,"
Have you seen Amazons P/E ratio? " and right now it does
"We are covering too many businesses, your responses are flawed in that they focus on one element "profits", "
So is profit not the main goal of a publicly traded company?
"[Software is something I argue they should do] is that maintaining its profitability without expanding its market(exactly what you criticise Amazon for) is short sighted."
Besides the dedicated media player market -- Apple is increasing revenues and profits much faster than the industry in every single one of its markets.
"Googles revenue is up this year 9 month period http://investor.google.com/earnings.html from $19,087,000 to $27,632,000 Their profits are up $8,235,000 and $9,328,000 (they were down last quarter with half a billion restructuring of Motorola, but they sold off their set-top box this quarter for $2.5 billion), "
Of course their revenue was up after adding Motorola, but Motorola is still losing money. Motorola is causing an increase in revenue but a decrease in profit. Not a winning combination
"(they were down last quarter with half a billion restructuring of Motorola, but they sold off their set-top box this quarter for $2.5 billion"
So they bought MMI for 12.5 billion, MMI had about $3 billion in cash at the time so that was a net cost of 9.5 billion and now they are selling the settop business for $3 billion. So that is still a net cost of about 6.5 billion on a company that is still losing money. On top of that, Google as part of the deal, is assuming most of the liability for patent infringemenr claims that are being brought by Tivo -- a company who has a track record of winning in court.
"but as I said with Google Docs they already make $1 Billion from Google Docs, and are making a massive push against Microsoft, there on-line store is reportedly selling 400% more in a year,"
The Apple app store is barely above break even profitably and has much higher revenues than the Google Play store. Up 400% from barely anything is still barely anything.
"....but the short version is your view of google is not based in reality...heard about the xPhone:)"
Yes because a rumored phone from a division who hasn't been able to compete for years is definitely a sure fire hit......
"its strategy of going for market-share over profits is working to its advantage going forward...."
But if market share were the sure fire way to profitability, then why would HP try to jetison their PC business when HP still had the largest market share? Why is the iPhone still more profitable than the rest of the market combined?
"What I predict is Apples business model is unsustainable, and the market agrees with me with it having 30% of its value wipes of its market cap, "
Samsung Galaxy Note II sales exceed one million in Korea, may hit 10M globally in Q1
Read and weep. Seems, somebody didn't forget what innovation means. ------- You think 10 million is a big number? Apple will sell more iPod Touches this quarter, let alone phones, and tablets.
MS makes 5 to 10x *less* profit for each Windoows license than Apple makes per Mac sold. MS makes $15 on each Windows Phone license compared to $200 - $300 for each iPhone sold.
"Facebook (Social Network)..."
You consider Facebook to be financially successful?
They don't care if its an iPhone or not and I bet if all android type phones were lumped into a single category they would be just as high in theft rate as iDevices and maybe even higher.
"Three separate incidents have seen students from Columbia University contact police after being stopped on 114th Street and asked to hand over mobile phones to the muggers. The thieves stole one victimâ(TM)s iPhone, but they reported rejected the opportunity to snatch a Motorola Droid, instead preferring to take cash, and reacted violently when a third victim claimed she did not own the Apple device."
"Google's not stupid, they are not going put resources into developing new mapping features for the iPhone app unless they get a new multi-year contract in place. So there really wasn't any "short term" solution for Apple..."
Google didn't develop the maps app. Apple developed the maps app using Google data. Google didn't have to put any resources into it.
I've worked with plenty of recruiters and I can say that I have never had a bad experience. I prefer working through them. They have all asked what type of job I was looking for, have prepped me for the interview and didn't submit my resume for jobs that we agreed was not a good fit for. I have never gotten an interview through a recruiter where I didn't get an offer from the company.
The last time I worked with recruiters, I had two job offers within four days of the time I started looking.
What "context"? Google themselves in their own press release from your link said they generated less profit than they did last year during the sane quarter. There core business of advertising is seeing declining margins and Motorola is unprofitable.
Here is what your link says. Are you still convinced that net income wasn't down year over year for the same quarter?
GAAP net income in the third quarter of 2012 was $2.18 billion, compared to $2.73 billion in the third quarter of 2011. Non-GAAP net income in the third quarter of 2012 was $3.01 billion, compared to $3.18 billion in the third quarter of 2011.
Google Inc.'s (GOOG) third-quarter income shrank 20% as total costs jumped and advertising prices continued to slide. Despite consistent double-digit revenue growth for more than two years, Google's shares had been moving sideways for much of 2012. That changed in July, as concerns faded about its Motorola acquisition and the price of mobile-search ads, leading the stock to hit new all-time highs and post its biggest quarterly rally in nearly seven years.
The company, which dominates the search-engine market, closed its $12.5 billion purchase for cellphone maker Motorola Mobility Holdings Inc. in May, as it looks to expand as a hardware provider. It also recently pushed into the increasingly competitive tablet market with its Nexus 7. The Motorola unit posted an operating loss in the second quarter and was viewed as a potential drag on results.
No questions, but do you really think revenue is important when the company is making less profit? In case you didn't know Motorola added to the Googles revenue but decreased their profit.
Again do you know the difference between revenue and profit?
So without knowing how many we're built, "it's a very good score?" Apple announced how many they sold the first weekend. Why won't Google? If they only made 50,000 and "sold out", is that good?
And what does that have to do with how crazy it is to compare Amazon sales in the US to show that The iPhone is not selling well on the US as the original poster tried to?
Slashdot Mirror
"You seem confused. The answer is NO! a publicly traded companys goal is not to make profit."
So you realize how utterly insane it sounds for anyone to say that the purpose of a public comps y is not to make a profit?
"Look at my Amazon example, almost every company has some investing activity can be tangibles "
And Apples CAPEX is one of the largest in the industry. Amazon has been using the excuse for its meager profits that it has been reinvesting for growth for over 15 years.
"The whole point is that Apple is now growing *slower* than the market, so its market share is lower. Its why apple used to have 23% of the market and now occupies 14.9%, In fact the profit margin of the iphone5 is less than that of its predecessors too just makes it more worrying."
So how has its slower than market growth affected its profitability? How has it affected its third party development support?
"I don't think you understand your Google link. The link I provide is to the financial statements discussed in your [albeit short] article, I actually quote the figures,"
Yes you quoted "revenue" growth that was caused by the money losing Motorola. Growing revenues unprofitabity is not a recipe for success.
"re-read my comment on Google it even covers how Google is expanding beyond advertising...it even owns a phone company :) (like a suggest Apple should)"
Google may be trying to expand but again "right now" 95% of their revenue comes from advertising and their phone company hasn't been competitive for years.
"I would comment on the acquisition of Motorola, but the reason why your maths is completely wrong is tax (and patents). Motorola may look 12.5Billion on the books, but in reality read it http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/08/31/us-motorolamobility-google-tax-idUSTRE77U1QX20110831. The short version is owning Motorola will cuts Googles Tax Bill by 80% It was incredibly good value."
It cuts their tax bill because they lost money.
"As for you criticism of Motorola...LG recently is having a massive success with the Nexus Phone, "
Define "massive success".
"Asus is having massive success with the Nexus Tablet, its likely to be a success...the concern is upsetting its partners."
The last report was one million a month. Not a massive success by any definition.
"I lave looked through you link. I will have to read it better later, but the whole point of it is to choose market share over profits, by cutting price...and do it before your competitors. (although Apple already has many of the Advantages of Scale and brand now...although you can already see it losing these)"
Really? Apple losing scale? The only other company that has any scale to speak of is Samsung.
"HP is trying to move to get money work harder, by getting into different markets as the PC market is mature 5% margin (Microsoft get all the real profit) Although that CEO got sacked. Like I say I'm not comfortable talking about Microsoft."
You really think the margins for Android phones are any better, especially with the Chinese manufacturers moving in?
"i am astonished that Apple cannot make money from the itunes store. Apparently Google/Amazon can. I suspect your just making that up...it currently is small compared to what they make from their hardware...but as I repeatly argue..this one is all about marketshare. Apple have already lost this book/movie/App market to Google/Amazon."
Uhh, Apple's App Store revenue is still 4x that of Google. And where are you getting your figures for movies? As far as "losing" the book market. Amazon's was in the market first and Apple tool market share away from Amazon.
So how do you know how profitable the Google Play store is?
"I don't argue the market is rational, but money is normally pretty unbiased,"
Have you seen Amazons P/E ratio?
" and right now it does
"We are covering too many businesses, your responses are flawed in that they focus on one element "profits", "
So is profit not the main goal of a publicly traded company?
"[Software is something I argue they should do] is that maintaining its profitability without expanding its market(exactly what you criticise Amazon for) is short sighted."
Besides the dedicated media player market -- Apple is increasing revenues and profits much faster than the industry in every single one of its markets.
"Googles revenue is up this year 9 month period http://investor.google.com/earnings.html from $19,087,000 to $27,632,000 Their profits are up $8,235,000 and $9,328,000 (they were down last quarter with half a billion restructuring of Motorola, but they sold off their set-top box this quarter for $2.5 billion), "
Of course their revenue was up after adding Motorola, but Motorola is still losing money. Motorola is causing an increase in revenue but a decrease in profit. Not a winning combination
Google's ad revenue is weak.
http://www.marketplace.org/topics/tech/weak-ad-revenue-pulls-google-down
"(they were down last quarter with half a billion restructuring of Motorola, but they sold off their set-top box this quarter for $2.5 billion"
So they bought MMI for 12.5 billion, MMI had about $3 billion in cash at the time so that was a net cost of 9.5 billion and now they are selling the settop business for $3 billion. So that is still a net cost of about 6.5 billion on a company that is still losing money. On top of that, Google as part of the deal, is assuming most of the liability for patent infringemenr claims that are being brought by Tivo -- a company who has a track record of winning in court.
"but as I said with Google Docs they already make $1 Billion from Google Docs, and are making a massive push against Microsoft, there on-line store is reportedly selling 400% more in a year,"
The Apple app store is barely above break even profitably and has much higher revenues than the Google Play store. Up 400% from barely anything is still barely anything.
"....but the short version is your view of google is not based in reality...heard about the xPhone :)"
Yes because a rumored phone from a division who hasn't been able to compete for years is definitely a sure fire hit......
"its strategy of going for market-share over profits is working to its advantage going forward...."
http://web.mit.edu/bwerner/www/papers/Therelationbetweenmarketshareandprofitability.PDF
But if market share were the sure fire way to profitability, then why would HP try to jetison their PC business when HP still had the largest market share? Why is the iPhone still more profitable than the rest of the market combined?
"What I predict is Apples business model is unsustainable, and the market agrees with me with it having 30% of its value wipes of its market cap, "
And the market is always rational....
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dot-com_bubble
"Apple should have gone for Microsoft's throat"
Yes because if it had, it might be growing faster than Microsoft now....oh wait, it is,
"but the short version is your view of google is not based in reality...heard about the xPhone :)"
"You're on drugs. Last year we learned that Apple sold 60 million iPod touches over a 3 1/2 year period. That's 1.42 million a month"
A. You're comparing what Apple sold *three years ago" in your average.
B. Those sales figures that came out were only for the US.
"10 million in a month is a big number,"
Samsung never said "10 million a month"
"Look Apple [brick and mortar] stores are not a replacement for what Amazon do....An expansion of its On-line itunes store is."
Have you actually looked at Amazon's profits? Not exactlya raging success.
"Look Apple [brick and mortar] stores are not a replacement for what Amazon do....An expansion of its On-line itunes store is."
Googlie's revenue and profit was down year over year the last quarter.
"Look Apple [brick and mortar] stores are not a replacement for what Amazon do....An expansion of its On-line itunes store is."
But obvioysly comparing revenue, profit, or margins, Microsofts strategy is not as successful as Apple's.
"Amazon is getting into Electronics(Apple) "
And according to the CEO is not even trying to make a profit on hardware directly.
"and is currently has 40% of where shoppers go first."
Not for digital media and margins on sellling other people's physical stuff is razor thin.
"Apple has amassed an incredible amount of cash, but apparently is a one trick pony"
95% of Google's revenue comes from advertising....by definition that is one trick pony. Apple sells software, iPods, Macs, media, phones, and tablets.
"and well it looks to be following RIMM out the door"
So are you predicting that Apple won't see profit and revenue grpwth for 2013?
You do realize that neither the Nexus 4,7 nor 10 have sd card slots, don't you?
Samsung Galaxy Note II sales exceed one million in Korea, may hit 10M globally in Q1
Read and weep. Seems, somebody didn't forget what innovation means.
-------
You think 10 million is a big number? Apple will sell more iPod Touches this quarter, let alone phones, and tablets.
"Jobs failed to spend any of the money on building Apple a competitor to "
"Amazon (retail sales); "
http://www.apple.com/retail/
"Google (Search); "
With decreasing ad revenue per click....
"Microsoft (License its OS); "
MS makes 5 to 10x *less* profit for each Windoows license than Apple makes per Mac sold. MS makes $15 on each Windows Phone license compared to $200 - $300 for each iPhone sold.
"Facebook (Social Network)..."
You consider Facebook to be financially successful?
"Because the Republicans are insisting on spending cuts."
But they refuse to cut military spending.
"Whatever the design, it's if made in the Foxconn factory, I will never buy such product from slave labors."
So you will never buy any hardware from....
Acer ......
Amazon
Apple
Cisco
Dell
HP
Microsoft
Motorola
Nintendo
Nokia
Samsung
Sony
Toshiba
Vizio
http://thenextweb.com/apple/2011/12/16/these-muggers-want-iphones-only-let-owners-keep-droid-blackberry/
"Three separate incidents have seen students from Columbia University contact police after being stopped on 114th Street and asked to hand over mobile phones to the muggers. The thieves stole one victimâ(TM)s iPhone, but they reported rejected the opportunity to snatch a Motorola Droid, instead preferring to take cash, and reacted violently when a third victim claimed she did not own the Apple device."
Is Google's testimony before Congress good enough?
http://9to5mac.com/2012/03/29/apple-generates-four-times-more-revenue-for-google-than-android-devices/
"Google's not stupid, they are not going put resources into developing new mapping features for the iPhone app unless they get a new multi-year contract in place. So there really wasn't any "short term" solution for Apple..."
Google didn't develop the maps app. Apple developed the maps app using Google data. Google didn't have to put any resources into it.
I've worked with plenty of recruiters and I can say that I have never had a bad experience. I prefer working through them. They have all asked what type of job I was looking for, have prepped me for the interview and didn't submit my resume for jobs that we agreed was not a good fit for. I have never gotten an interview through a recruiter where I didn't get an offer from the company.
The last time I worked with recruiters, I had two job offers within four days of the time I started looking.
What "context"? Google themselves in their own press release from your link said they generated less profit than they did last year during the sane quarter. There core business of advertising is seeing declining margins and Motorola is unprofitable.
Here is what your link says. Are you still convinced that net income wasn't down year over year for the same quarter?
GAAP net income in the third quarter of 2012 was $2.18 billion, compared to $2.73 billion in the third quarter of 2011. Non-GAAP net income in the third quarter of 2012 was $3.01 billion, compared to $3.18 billion in the third quarter of 2011.
What part of Google's profits declined last quarter don't you understand? Or do you not trust WSJ?
http://online.wsj.com/article/BT-CO-20121018-712893.html
Google Inc.'s (GOOG) third-quarter income shrank 20% as total costs jumped and advertising prices continued to slide.
Despite consistent double-digit revenue growth for more than two years, Google's shares had been moving sideways for much of 2012. That changed in July, as concerns faded about its Motorola acquisition and the price of mobile-search ads, leading the stock to hit new all-time highs and post its biggest quarterly rally in nearly seven years.
The company, which dominates the search-engine market, closed its $12.5 billion purchase for cellphone maker Motorola Mobility Holdings Inc. in May, as it looks to expand as a hardware provider. It also recently pushed into the increasingly competitive tablet market with its Nexus 7. The Motorola unit posted an operating loss in the second quarter and was viewed as a potential drag on results.
No questions, but do you really think revenue is important when the company is making less profit? In case you didn't know Motorola added to the Googles revenue but decreased their profit.
Again do you know the difference between revenue and profit?
Care to find an Android phone that benches higher than an iPhone 5? But what if I want a mll screen ith a powerful processor?
Really?
http://www.apple.com/pr/library/2012/09/24iPhone-5-First-Weekend-Sales-Top-Five-Million.html
Apple also releases how many phones it sells every quarter.
And this is the first time that Apple ever saw seasonal declines. I wonder if Apple sells will decline after the Christmas quarter.
As Far as underspecceed. Someone hasn't seen Anandtechs benchmarks iod the Nexts 10 compared to the 10inch ipad.
Uhhhhh....
http://online.wsj.com/article/BT-CO-20121018-712893.html
Apple:
http://www.nytimes.com/2012/10/26/technology/apple-profits-rise-24-on-iphone-5-sales.html
Motorola is losing money not making money.
Someone does t know the difference between profit and revenue.
So without knowing how many we're built, "it's a very good score?" Apple announced how many they sold the first weekend. Why won't Google? If they only made 50,000 and "sold out", is that good?
And what does that have to do with how crazy it is to compare Amazon sales in the US to show that The iPhone is not selling well on the US as the original poster tried to?
So companies are in business to increase market share and not profit?
Right because "sold out" automatically means that the Nexus is doing as well as the iPhone without knowing how many were sold.