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Apple Axes Head of Mapping Team
New submitter drkim writes "'Apple has reportedly fired the head of its mapping team following software glitches which annoyed customers and rained mockery on the company.' Mr. Williamson promptly left Apple headquarters in Antarctica, and walked to his home in Middelfart, Denmark."
Nerval's Lobster adds: "Cue is also 'seeking advice from outside map-technology experts' as well as 'prodding maps provider TomTom to fix landmark and navigation data it shares with Apple.'"
Was this guy setup for failure by having to meeting google map standards overnight?
Firing people sometimes is an escape goat for companies mistakes.
Apple should do some major Google ass kissing before it's too late.
What of his head ??
If Jobs was alive, the guy would've been shot at dawn and his family billed for the bullet.
so apple maps finally told someone, how to go, somewhere ?
The executive failed to deliver the impossible: a complete mapping system built from the ground up in a year or so. The result is that he gets sacked.
The solution: Apple needs to stop picking fights. I'm sure Google would have given them the full turn-by-turn system if Apple would have paid for it. Apple has great hardware and software engineers. But they aren't good enough to replicate the technology its competitor has spent over a decade developing in just one year.
On a major line, too! If only Apple maps had a "transit directions" feature...
10 PRINT CHR$(205.5+RND(1)); : GOTO 10
... "Siri, why didn't we just stick with Google Maps, which worked?"....
promptly left Apple headquarters in Antarctica
Antarctica, I lol'd.
I don't get it. Is this some kind of humor, or some kind of random gibberish added to the submission to see if anyone notices?
Maybe the submitter was trying to see if the editors were paying attention . . . ?
"Mr. Williamson promptly left Apple headquarters in Antarctica, and walked to his home in Middelfart, Denmark."
That's impossible. Apple maps says Middelfart is south of Antarctica. Sheesh.
Great warrior...hrmph! Wars not make one great.
He still hasn't been able to find his way out of the building.
Personally I still like the new maps app. Even on my old iphone4 it's faster and easier to read and does everything I want. It's even got more features than the previous map app.
Then again, I live in California and don't suffer from the bad map issues that other regions have had.
Let's hope apple learns from this lesson. Old Jobs hasn't been in the ground long and already their first "convenience over QC" choice has come back to bite them. Jobs was a QC /fanatic/ and would not have let the shitty maps slip out (Or stay there for long) even if staying with google was a thorn in their side.
And it was a thorn. Google is a competitor now. Google also wanted better terms if apple wanted to add new mapping features. Apple decided that it was not worth it.. And they were wrong.
I think if Jobs was still here he'd have slapped people around, re-negotiated with Google, and quickly have a patch issued to revert the maps. We'll see if apple continues to stumble in this very un-apple like manner.
With any luck google will issue a new maps app and everyone will be happy.
Whoosh!!
It was the 3rd most useful feature for me, after the actual phone/sms components of the phone!
The problem with slashdot is that most of its users were bullied and stuffed into lockers as kids!
that take away almost as much as they give. I miss those manually edited directions to hard-to-find places, they can actually point out landmarks (what a concept!) that are often missing on a map.
Escape goat to the rescue!
It's called a sense of humor. Get one.
Whoosh isn't really appropriate. I just said "I don't get it." You could explain instead instead of announcing to me that there was a joke I didn't get!
It's supposed to resemble the sorts of mistakes that are (were?) present in Apple's maps (which the article is about). It's supposed to be funny.
Some people tried to take a photo with their iPhone 5 of him leaving Apple headquarters but there was a huge purple flare over most of it so you can't even tell who it is. They must have been holding it wrong or the sun in that part of the US actually is purple.
I think the bigger problem was rushing the product out, full of bugs, rather than lack of expertise or unreliable data. It would have been wiser to let it mature a bit more like Google did. Somebody had to be the guy that said, "Eh, it is good enough, let's ship."
Whether it was his call or not is another matter.
while(1) attack(People.Sandy);
Ah, thanks. I can be clueless about humor sometimes. My apologies for cluttering up the comments with my question.
I was a frequent user of MapQuest when Google Maps appeared and for a good while there were glitches with Google Maps just like Apple is experiencing so I stuck with MapQuest. Google Maps are only as good as they are now because of all the time invested but even now they get it wrong. I was visiting a friend in Alabama and Google put his street address two miles away from the actual location.
The major loss with Apple Maps is the lack of public transport directions and for that reason alone, Google Maps needs to return. Until then, my phone is staying on iOS 5.
"I have the attention span of a strobe lit goldfish, please get to the point quickly!"
It's a joke based on the fact that Apple maps has no idea where you are, where you're going, or where your destination is and since he designed it, he'd be using it after leaving the building.
The joke is that the iOS 6 maps app couldn't find the right place you're looking for. Often mocked by the Motorola ad which touts the superiority of Google's maps (but which really turns out to be a non-existent address - if you specified a city, it would figure it out, but if you didn't, it found the right address in a different city), the problem was a few notable errors (of which Motorola could've picked instead of making one up) that were particularly egregious. And we're not talking about "a place with the same name", but well-known places that were in the wrong location period (wrong country, even).
So the joke goes that the Apple Maps are so bad, if you asked it to direct you across the street, you'll find yourself in another country if you followed its directions.
Google was quoted as having said that they have a 400 year advantage over Apple maps.
Questions are:
Is this true?
Does it make sense?
Is there a way Apple can reduce these several centuries into a few years?
I'll answer myself on that last question:
Yes they can; by throwing one tenth of their $120 billion at the effort. I'd be happy to be part of it.
Whoooooosh!
Thanks for explaining! My apologies for the dumb question.
While a balance can be found as a product matures, the birth of a product is very different. Look at how we treat humans in the different stages of their life for citations.
I used maps *more* than the phone/sms components on my iPhone, and the public transit directions more than walking and driving combined. I haven't upgraded to iOS 6, and don't plan on it until I replace my iPhone 4 with a Nexus 4 when my contract is up in a few months.
That sound overhead is the mid-morning flight from Antarctica to Middlefart...
In a moment of seriousness, he was fired BECAUSE Apple Maps are providing faulty and at times outright insane directions. He was the guy in charge of making Apple Maps, as the summary says.
So the joke is that he used his iPhone to navigate home to Middelfart from Antarctica, and obviously was told the distance was short enough that he could just walk.
FYI, they're about 10,000 miles apart.
-=This sig has nothing to do with my comment. Move along now=-
The problem wasn't so much that the Apple maps were terrible. With a few notable exceptions it actually wasn't bad for a first attempt. Remember, Google Maps wasn't very good at first either. The problem was promoting the Apple Maps as this awesome, fantastic piece of software. Someone in the Apple management chain needed to say "Uh Tim, maybe we should dial back the excitement a bit on this maps thing. Have you seen it? It needs work.". Evidently nobody did so Cook rolled it out thinking it was great and it wasn't.
Cook looks like an idiot, and by extension so does Apple, so something had to be done about it. He can't allow that to happen. If they lie to him about Maps then how can he trust them to tell him the truth about the next product? If I were him I would have done exactly the same thing. He needs to send a message to management that this sort of thing won't be tolerated. If the product is not ready then fine, we'll figure out something but don't bullshit me and leave me hanging out to dry in front our customers. It might seem harsh but these people are getting paid a ton of money to make the right decisions. If you screw up you're gone.
Did they know where to find him?
That's what a middlefart looks like in the Antarctica sunshine.
It seems like firing people is now a way of solving problems at Apple. I can't recall too many high profile firings during Steve Jobs tenure (may be I am not digging far enough, but still). Wonder what that means.
That said, primary failure of new Apple maps is not in what it does, but what it does not do. As driving maps go, they are fine. They have their share of errors, but so do Google maps. In fact just yesterday Google maps insisted that a whole block of streets was open and available for me to drive through, whereas in reality they are permanently blocked or do not exist (caused me to waste a good 30 minutes finding my way out). Checked on iPod at home with Apple maps, and it actually had them correctly shown as blocked. That's one advantage of using TomTom data which draws on crowd-sourced user corrections - changes are actually noted sooner.
However, lack of public transportation directions is a major dealbreaker for me. Along with lack of untethered jailbreak (though I can live without the latter) it's the reason I am holding off on buying iPhone 5. I can adjust to most other applications and changes - but there is no substitute out there for general purpose, universal public transportation directions like Google has.
Piecemeal solution of loading individual apps for various areas does not work both because it's: :)
- too much work to leave one app for another
- does not let me see these directions along with driving (what if I want to quickly compare which one's faster)
- Literally *all* of the 3rd party public transportation apps I tried (and that includes a number of major metropolitan areas in US) were complete and utter junk. They don't have to be, but then they'd have to basically become google maps
I also think at this point that Google is not going to be very forthcoming with their maps app for iOS6. I though differently before, since Google stands to lose quite a bit of tracking of Apple users. But now I happen to think they are ready to forgo this for a bigger prize. By withholding Google maps app they are able to slow adoption of iPhone 5 and other newer Apple hardware which is not available with older iOS. That's a direct hit at their competitor and they stand to gain some business that way (or other vendors of Android devices like Samsung, which still benefits Google). This way they make up lost tracking data and make more $$$ in the process.
So, my guess is - there may not be a Google maps app for iOS for a long time now. Time will tell.
http://m.complex.com/tech/2012/10/steve-jobs-quotes/because-im-the-ceo "Because I'm the CEO, and I think it can be done." - when engineer after engineer told him the iMac was not feasible.
Anybody thinking Tim Cook should remain CEO of Apple needs their head read.
I think that is wasn't the man in charge of Maps that should have gotten the ax, but the guy that decided to drop a working product in favor of a broken product and then stood on a stage and claimed it was better then all the rest.
I know the decision to drop Google Maps all began with Steve Jobs, however after his passing and Tim Cook taking over certainly there should have been some review of the companies projects to determine if Apple should stay on the same course. At some point I am sure someone must have fired up the Maps app and realized it was no-where near ready for prime-time.
If Tim Cook is going to blindly follow in Jobs footsteps and not make any executive decision that didn't originate from something Jobs began then I think he should step down or be ousted. Any sane CEO should have yanked the Maps product from the iOS 6 release schedule for lacking to match the quality of the app it was replacing. Yes, maybe it would have looked like egg on his face for postponing a highly publicized new feature, but it would have been far less worse then issuing an apology for releasing the app in the first place.
And what the f*ck about iTunes 11? There is only 2 days left in November and Apple still proudly boasts it is coming in November. Just like they proudly boasted it was coming in October. I think iTunes 11 is another fiasco in the making.
You can't just keep firing your top exec's without realizing that that man at top needs to start taking responsibility for the state of the company he is supposedly running. Apple doesn't need a caretaker, it needs a leader, Cook is not a leader.
I haven't thought of anything clever to put here, but then again most of you haven't either.
Maybe he was an escape goat but I still wanna know what question Apple axed him?
This is how I would implement Apple maps:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Fl718QO_xQ&feature=relmfu
After the "escape goat" and "Middelfart" reference I laughed so hard I snorked at both ends.
Thanks slashdot!
Option D: They could have straight forward have bought Tom Tom and use their application. TomTom's own devices that use the same map information had no trouble navigating where Apple was leading you nowhere. At the current share price it would be affordable for Apple to buy it and it would buy them an entrance into the dashboard of several large brands, that are already using built-in TomTom navigation devices.
I was promised a flying car. Where is my flying car?
KYM doesn't confirm it, but it appears that escape goat is a nascent meme.
Google mapmaker has a provision to correct edge case mistakes.
I don't think it's unreasonable to be expected to give credit to a company
No, it's not. That's why since the launch of the iPhone, Google Maps had a "Google" logo on the map. Applications written that used the mapping framework were forbidden from covering that or the app would be rejected.
Google wanted an even larger logo, which does start to get unreasonable when it's much larger than what you have on Android - but they wanted a lot more than just a logo update...
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
I've had very few problems with Apple's Maps app, in fact I found it absolutely amazing the other day when I was able to match the exact location of a photo we took on an old-style film camera to the exact spot on the roof of a building we took it in Madrid just by twisting and panning around the 3D view of Madrid. It took about 20 minutes and utterly blew me away that I could do that. There is simply no comparison for that, admittedly, limited use case.
The problem I have with Maps is actually Yelp. Here in Australia, and so far this also seems to be true in most of the world I've travelled to that's not the continental USA, no-one uses Yelp. So the location data in Maps is either missing, wrong, or seriously out of date. If Apple had partnered with FourSquare instead then it would be a very different story. Even the smallest little beach-shack in Cambodia is in FourSquare. The shoe-shine guy in Red Square Moscow is in FourSquare. The frakkin' cafe over the road from my house is in FourSquare. But it isn't in Yelp. In Yelp they still show the old Chinese restaurant that hasn't existed for over a year (it's a pub now).
I used to have a better sig than this, but I got tired of it
he probably got lost walking home, never to be seen of again!
They let hatered of Google get in the way of day-to-day business here.
Actually the opposite is true. They let reliance on Google go on for too long, using it as a crutch that hurt day-to-day business for years.
Android had built-in turn by turn for years; not only could Apple not provide it in iOS, but developers could not write apps that provided turn-by-turn directions on top of the built in iOS mapping framework (it was against Google's TOS). So the whole platform was limited for years by Google restrictions on not just what Apple could do, but what any developer could do.
Now that Google is out of the picture iOS users have turn by turn directions. They have vector maps. iOS developers can do whatever they want with the built in mapping framework now, without arbitrary Google limitations like limits on reverse geocoding per day, or having to avoid covering up the Google logo on the map, or (as stated) being able to show turn by turn directions on a map.
Apple should have ditched Google maps much earlier before it got more painful for more users. But the fact is they had to do so, and at least now that it is done Apple can clean up the map data (the hardest part of mapping) and within a year should be essentially caught up for most areas. Already they have better satellite data in many areas than Google does, and they work better in China/Japan for native users (not as well for english users).
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
"Apple Axes Head..."
It seemed very fitting that the "business" icon for this story is a headless suit, until I remembered that directors in Cupertino don't wear suits. With just about any other company this would have been perfect. We need a headless black turtleneck for future stories.
The combination of ensuring that "everyone" is co-located, and intense security probably made it hard to do the "obvious" QA. Put the test application on every Apple employees phone, everywhere in the world and give it a real life workout. Can't do that and maintain the cone of silence.
Frankly, in the Denver area, I like the Apple maps better than Google, and a little less well than Telenav's product. As I seldom use public transit (doesn't go to where my kids schools are, etc.) that lack is hardly ever noticeable. Missing walking directions is a minor loss (bike trails, etc.) but not a show stopper for me.
As far the main topic, should Executive "so and so" be fired ... its hard to say from the outside. Did they accept an impossible assignment? Did they claim it was done? Did they design an appropriately staffed organization to ensure quality? Were they hamstrung from above?
Sometimes the right answer is "sorry Boss, I can't do that" or "sorry its not ready for prime time yet". Don't know what was said, or the context. And the people who do know, sure aren't going to be chatting about it on /. if they want to stay employed at Apple ;>
As far as Tim Cook's performance goes, as a shareholder I'm happy to see that screwing up DOES result in having executives pay a price. An organization that continues to reward screwups slides downhill fast.
The major loss with Apple Maps is the lack of public transport directions
At first it seems like a loss but honestly, for most areas you are better off with the new system where it helps you find apps that provide metro data.
I used Google's metro directions quite often but it was always mediocre at best. An application built for a city can integrate much deeper with a metro system, to show things like current location of buses and more options for transit. Google would give you one bus (or train) to take, not really understanding that several alternatives might do just as well, or be better because a bus was late.
If you look at how Google is doing transit they are downloading static files in a specific format from various metro agencies around the world. Fine as far as it goes but as I said, an application built to understand an area can do better.
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
Option A) was to negotiate with Google (which they did) and accept paying more money and letting Google put their logo somewhere (which they didn't).
iOS has ALWAYS has the Google logo on maps. Google wanted to increase the size.
Also would paying more money have allowed iOS developers to also be able to provide turn by turn directions on Google maps? Because that was forbidden before. If not you only slightly helped the platform for a single app, not all of them.
Option B) was to to let it ride with no navigation (their contract with Google for just map data still had a year or two left before renewal) and work on their own map/nav system in the meantime
Which is exactly what they did for years. The system was as ready as it could be without getting real-world feedback. It already works really well for many people, especially the U.S. - it mostly needs work in Europe. But the actual navigation is very good.
Option C) was to abandon common sense, drop Google because they are evil
Common sense is dropping Google because they are limiting what iOS developers could do. Which is exactly what Apple did. It should have been done sooner but at least now developers are free of Googles terms when working with maps; Apple has no restrictions.
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
Wait wait wait, I thought you got the apple maps walking joke, but the funny part is that there's actually a place called Middelfart. I thought that's what you were confused about, lol!
I can't recall too many high profile firings during Steve Jobs tenure
You mean like Mark Papermaster over the iPhone 4 antenna issues? Or the Mobile Me team lead?
Oh.
Has everyone here got some kind of amnesia? Because Jobs stories are rife with him firing people that displeased him. The current firings seem quite mild by comparison.
Oddly people now seem to think Apple under Steve Jobs was some kind of perfect mecca of products without issues and never an employee fired. That was never the case, but Apple Haters sure like to claim it was.
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
don't feel too bad. I actually had to read it 3 times before I caught on.
I am surprised. Type bouc émissaire into Google Translate and you get scapegoat (I only know the term because I like Daniel Pennac's books).
From scarped cliff or quarried stone she cries "A thousand types are gone, I care for nothing, no not one."
Leviticus is a complete mishmash of prohibitions, but at least some of them are believed to be simply banning the practices of non-Jahwist religions, and others are deeply rooted in the concept of women as property which still applies in the more backward parts of the Middle East. It's about as realistic as telling us that the Orpheus myth is a warning about the dire consequences of eating food in basement restaurants.
From scarped cliff or quarried stone she cries "A thousand types are gone, I care for nothing, no not one."
..."Now, to conclude with the Internet device section here, I want to show you something truly remarkable, which is, Google Maps on iPhone. I hit our maps application here and it’s coming up. And it shows us North America, and I’m going to go to Moscone West. That’s where we are right now. And here we are. Boom. That’s where we are. Now, what I’m going to do, is I’m going to go look for something. I’m going to certainly want a cup of coffee afterwards, so I’m just going to look for Starbucks, right? Starbucks, so I’m going to search for Starbucks, and sure enough, there’s all the Starbucks. Now, I can get a list of Starbucks here, and I can pick that one if I want, and I can even go look at that Starbucks, and there it is, and let’s give them a call." "Good morning, Starbucks, how can I help you?" "Yes, I’d like to order 4,000 lattes to go, please. No, just kidding, wrong number. Thank you. Bye-bye. OK."..."
Complete Transcript of Steve Jobs, Macworld Conference and Expo, January 9, 2007
http://www.iphonebuzz.com/complete-transcript-of-steve-jobs-macworld-conference-and-expo-january-9-2007-23447.php
In other news - there is a town called Middelfart! Oh sorry could not resist...
Apple pulls a Google and says their new product is a "beta". Then, leave that label in place - for five years if necessary - while they get the bugs worked out.
You think in a year, Apple is going to be caught up to Google who has been constantly working on their mapping data all this time?
Yes, because is some cases they are already ahead.
What you are missing is that there is no such thing as being "done" with map data. It's an ongoing effort, with data changing all the time. Google is at the plateau where they are probably as good as it is realistic to be. Apple only has to reach the same level where Google is, while Google is essentially at a static position.
Apple has started with a large data set nearly as good as Google, or in some places better (Apple Maps are already better at finding things than most of the third party maps, including MapQuest and the recently released Nokia app). Then on top of that they added Yelp for data on businesses which people update frequently, and also have a better system for map feedback than Google does currently.
Between Yelp updates and people submitting issues to Apple via the app feedback, Apple will have easily caught and in some cases surpassed Google within a year, because they have a lot more people working on updates for the system that are not just employees. They also gain the same advantage Google had to themselves for a while in that they know the common things people search for, so they can add them as placemarks. That's all it takes to catch up to Google, is a large volume of map users beating the hell out of your search and map data. As long as you start with a good enough data set that lots of people use it, that's all it takes... and there are a LOT of iOS users.
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
With Steve Jobs no longer in the picture its only natural for Apple to have minor shifts in direction and to be making a few bad decisions along the way. Steve was a visionary for the most part, but honestly I'll never understand his sudden switch from a 'product oriented distinction' market to a 'throw Apple under the bus' with the 'Thermonuclear Campaign against Android' market. I used to love Apple products, but now I just can't. I just wish Apple's current management would go back to the old style of creating good quality products, and let the people simply choose the better product. But today what we have is what we have, a company continually making mistakes and placing the blame on those who were not truly in control. Control is at the top, and the top is failing miserably at the moment.
Apple, please, please, please, prove me wrong. If not its just a matter of time before the shareholders speak up. [Un]fortunately I have already spoken, as my broker knows very well that he will get fired if he invests anything of mine in Apple.
I realize this transition was annoying for many people. I live in a smaller community in upstate NY, and there were some regressions relative to Google Maps. I know that there were whole countries that disappeared from the map, however.
From my position of not being terribly affected, I see this as an attempt by Apple to blame a scapegoat rather than owning up to what HAD to be a decision approved at the top.
What many people don't realize is that it took Google Maps a LONG time to get as good as they are, and I still often go to MapQuest because of deficiencies in Google Maps. Who thought Apple was going to be perfect from day one? Because of Apple's contract with Google expiring in a year and their failure to get Google to add turn-by-turn and voice features, Apple was basically forced to do this to keep competitive. If Apple had waited a year, would it be better? Marginally. Not nearly as much better as it will be after being LIVE for that whole time. Maybe Apple could have done better by having an extended beta program for the app, but then many people would have two map apps to confuse them. (Apple is sensible in avoiding duplication of core functionality, because some people think that somehow the whole internet is inside their smartphone.)
But Apple has a history of not wanting to admit mistakes. So to shed themselves of the blame for this, they pick on the one manager in charge of the development and fire him so as to remove the blemish completely. Meanwhile, it's not like they're going to switch back to Google Maps or anything. Because it wasn't really this guy's final decision or his fault.
I would be careful of putting "head" directly after "axes".
I'm a good cook. I'm a fantastic eater. - Steven Brust
...and at least in my part of the world, the data is pretty good too, only missing any useful 3D data. But I don't live in a particularly massive city, so I doubt we're a priority.
My feelings thus far can be summed up as follows: the app itself is actually quite good. I like the fact that the maps data is now vector based, instead of Google's bitmapped based data; do any significant zooming in Google Maps, and suddenly you're using more data to download new tiles. This doesn't happen to the same level in Apple Maps -- the maps themselves are crisp, clean, and detailed, with less data going across the wire. The turn-by-turn navigation is excellent, and recalculates nearly instantly.
From that perspective, I think Apple's Maps is a huge improvement over Google's. The data for my region of the world appears to be pretty complete as well, and doesn't have some of the phantom roads that Google Maps has had here in the past. However, I haven't done an extensive survey of each to have any true metric to base any actual feeling on.
Of course, like everyone else, I've seen all of the captures of problem areas people have found. I've seen these for Google Maps as well. It does appear that Apple really needs to work on the data portion of their maps in many regions of the world, but the app itself seems to be a great improvement over the previous Google Maps.
Yaz
" left Apple headquarters in Antarctica, and walked to his home in Middelfart, Denmark."
If it was April, I just would have assumed it was a joke.
The Kruger Dunning explains most post on
I know this is an obvious question, but I haven't seen the answer to it yet.
Why doesn't Apple simply allow their users to use whatever mapping applications they'd like?
Why try to force folks to use the new "broken" one?
Why continue to hurt/limit your customers?
Why not *immediately* actually fix the problem, instead of first lying to your customers, and then firing the exec in charge of mapping?
The answer seems obvious to me.
roman_mir we see you are now posting at zero - instead of negative one - again. congratulations. now will you stop using your sock puppet to spread your favored gospels on slashdot?
and yes, we have noticed that you decidedly did NOT use the free market solution that was available to you. which makes you a hypocrite, but we already knew that long ago.
Who cares if the guy said it was or wasn't ready? It wasn't a blind release! Did Tim Cooke not test it?? Or any other members of upper management? Are there no dedicated testers in apple?
No one have a set of balls in Apple? Maybe they couldn't find them because they directions were so off.
He's dead and not running The Fruit any more.
It's also funny cuz fart.
It did not limit what iOS developers could do with it.
As an IOS developer, I know that is not true.
I know is was against google TOS to provide turn by turn directions in an app that used MapKit - you could do so if you used an alternate map source like Open Street Maps. Now in Apple Maps not only is there no such limitation, Apple is encouraging generation of turn by turn directions in applications for transit maps.
I also know that while Apple was using Google for reverse geocoding, your app had a limit on the number of operations per day (that was kind of low). When Apple stopped using Google for that service, the limitation was removed.
Apple HATES other peoples branding.
Wrong. They hate BRANDING. At least not in a place where it interferes with functionality, which it most certainly did with maps (you were not allowed to put something on the screen that obscured the Google logo in the map).
Apple wants to be the internet's toll road.
And Google DOESN'T??????
Everyone wants to be the internet's toll road. It's just that with Apple you pay once up front, with Google you pay and pay and pay and most of the cost is usability because you have more ads.
I mean look at product searches on Google. Google Shopping used to be useful, now it's wholly sponsored data.
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
Apple Maps *is* awesome. Your criticisms are overblown and you're holding it wrong.
Geeks, or "Apple hatersIt's only the Apple Fanboys that deify Jobs
The only people I've ever seen that think Jobs is non-mortal are in fact Apple Haters like yourself. You think he has magically tricked people into liking Apple products when the truth is people just like what works.
I'll let you have the last response as you ignorant Apple Hater trolls just yammer on and on even after being totally discredited.
Its also a search problem. And again its unlikely that anyone (especially a non-search engine company) will be able to match what Google can do there.
I disagree. Google is indeed quite good at search (it's still by far my preferred search engine). But Apple also has experience in large scale search operations because of iTunes.
Apple Maps is missing keywords for important places more than anything. Once they get that in place, they will have a very solid mapping app that searches work with quite well.
Searching on maps does not have the same level of complexity as an arbitrary web search, because in the end you are looking for a place. Searching the web is more about finding scores of things that are kind of like what you are looking for. That's why I think Apple can get to the level Google is at in terms of accuracy.
iTunes has similar forms of searches where a lot of times you are searching for something specific, and iTunes has to help figure out what that is.
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
Apple cant even rectify their datasets properly. This is why tube stations aren't appearing where they should.
This alone is proof Apple will not be able to match any other data package out there including Open Street Map.
Why is rectification so important. Well rectification is adjusting the co-ords of different datasets to match up. If Apple cant even get that right, the quantity of their dataset doesn't matter, as it cant be accurately placed on a map. Yes rectification is that basic and if you screw that up, you may as well not bother adding any data into your map.
You know that Yelp is Extremerly US centric?
Google's data can find things in just about any country. Yelp has been a huge hindrance to Apple outside the US.
Sorry if it conflicts with your blind fanboyism, but Apple's data is at least 5 years off Google's. A decade is probably more likely and in that time Google will be improving both their data and their application of it. Apple is playing catch up in the mapping arena and catch-up a game Apple is very, very bad at.
Calling someone a "hater" only means you can not rationally rebut their argument.
Actually its both.
Yelp's serious dearth of non-US info and the staleness of the data is bad, but besides the point as Apple's not rectifying the data properly.
Rectification in GIS is about aligning different data sets along common co-ordinates. Without this you end up with points of interest and lines seriously out of place on images.
Apple needs to get rectification correct before even considering putting data into maps... Then they need to worry about how useless Yelp is.
But I don't think Apple are capable of fixing this. I give it a year or two before they come back to Google with their tail between their legs.
Calling someone a "hater" only means you can not rationally rebut their argument.
It's obvious you know nothing about GIS and are just blindly defending Apple.
Well I spent a few years writing geocoding software to let people geocode assets on a map but I guess that doesn't count....
Apple cant even rectify their datasets properly. This is why tube stations aren't appearing where they should.
Tube stations DO appear where they should. Look closer. In the initial reports of maps errors where supposedly there was no tube station, there was - but only at a closer zoom level. Were you really fooled by that? You do realize that some people were making up errors because they thought it was funny, right?
Perhaps you shouldn't talk such a big game about things that you have no direct experience in?
Why is rectification so important. Well rectification is adjusting the co-ords of different datasets to match up.
Duh. Why did you say you were a GIS expert if that is your amazing bit of wisdom to share. A three year old could figure out if you have a location that is wrong you need the right one.
Seriously dude.
If Apple cant even get that right
Ok, do please show us where Apple has not got that right. Mostly they have. And in fact here's where you lack of direct experience hurts you again because what does Apple Maps do when you say a business or other place is in the wrong location? They have you put a pin where it really is. So they have millions of people doing very accurate rectification for them, which is why bad locations are mostly going to be corrected before too long.
Again, perhaps you should apply that old adage by keeping silent before removing all doubt...
You know that Yelp is Extremerly US centric?
Yes, but not as much now that it's integrated with Apple Maps as more people everywhere have reason to update it. Did you really not think that through? All you can think about is what was, not what is or what will be.
Google's data can find things in just about any country.
So can Apple maps for the european cities I have been in so far. It works fine in Amsterdam, for example.
And in fact Google rather sucked for me when I was in Berlin (including zero transit ability this past May), so you might want to squelch that international Google fervor a bit as it's been very hit and miss for me overseas. News flash: Both Google and Apple are U.S. based companies and thus more U.S. centric than not.
Sorry if it conflicts with your blind fanboyism, but Apple's data is at least 5 years off Google's.
That's funny because where I live the satellite data in Apple Maps is about two years newer, and unlike Google it properly locates a freaking Arbys. I guess what you are saying is that it takes Google more than five years to issue corrections... I bring up that Arbys because unlike a lot of Apple Maps goofs that have been raised, that was a real problem I encountered with Google Maps that wasted a lot of time for me (not shown: An Arbys in a whole different town Google ALSO got the location totally wrong for).
Google is ahead in placemark data, and in SOME (but not all) business location. I'm sorry your Apple Hater Nerd Rage totally blinds you to the truth and makes you post about things you know nothing about...
I'll let you have the last post because I can't see spending any more time correcting ignorance now that you'd laid out how little you know about what is going on in this situation just because you once took a GIS class and stayed at a Holiday Inn Express or something...
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
Google is doing indoor maps, maps, streetview and navigation in the most inaccessible places in the world
Apple is doing that as well, except for indoor maps. Granted that is pretty impressive but since it's nothing I can't get off a website for a mall, is it really that important?
The 3D view is a better replacement for the useful aspect of Street View.
Apple so far as I have seen does navigation and shows roads for every place Google does... can you point out an area they do not have?
And how is Apple going to catch up, with no social network, a smaller user community, no search engine?
How would a "social network" help Apple exactly? What they have is twofold - Yelp integration (the social network you were looking for I guess) plus a feedback button in Maps that lets anyone say a business is elsewhere or add new information.
it's also no longer a smaller user community, the number of people doing Mobile searches on iOS is now in the hundreds of millions, all over the world.
As for "no search engine" just what do you think happens when you enter a search term in Apple Maps? Might it not be using some kind of "engine" to "search"? Hmm...
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
You have some good points, and what you say may be true about China, but I don't think it is true about Japan. iOS 6 maps got rid of transit directions, which is what most people in big cities like Tokyo use.
I was in Tokyo last year - Google Maps transit was totally worthless in Tokyo because it didn't include at least one major subway line (as I understand if multiple companies run the subways there and Google Transit did not have them all). It did work for trains between cities, kind of...
Apple's approach to transit in the long run is a far better system. A third party app that is more understanding of and tightly integrated with the metro systems there, and should give you much better and more tailored directions. Just the app alone would not be helpful if you could not find it (a very real possibility with hundreds of thousands of apps) but Apple put a regional mapping app store under Transit in Maps so you could find apps that specifically covered the area you were in, for any form of transit - not just what Google includes.
For example in my area, one of the possible transit apps shows all of the possible bike rental stands that anyone can use 24x7. Other apps that show up are cab apps and also of course bus routing apps.
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
Apple doesn't allow sales of senses of humor in the app store.
Rumour has it, he's looking for jobs now ;-)
He would have looked at it, said "It's crap!" and fired the guy on the spot for even thinking of presenting that to the public.
I think the quality control at the highest levels of management got caught in the management changeover, hadn't appointed a new "It's crap, you're fired" guy.