After reading the whole thing, I came to the conclusion that this is an unfair comparison:
-They only count bugs for one Microsoft OS product. I mean, there's Win95, Win95osr2, Win98, Win98SE, Win2000, WinME, WinCE, WinNT4.0...
-They count one bug for each distribution. I mean, if a bug is detected on rsync, it shows as one different bug for every distribution, that is, one but for Mandrake 7.0, one for Debian, one for Mandrake 7.1...
So, this makes me wonder if the journalist is plainly uninformed or if has no idea of what he is talking about (a laid-off journmalist from the gardening section re-hired for a tech-writter position).
The conspiracy theories, black helicopters and Microsoft-payed journalists, from my point of view, do not apply here.
A user has given a "Overrated" (-1) moderation to your comment.
Re:I hope these stories end soon...
http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=26885&cid=2902 616
Attached to:
Linux & the Business Desktop
http://slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=02/01/25/134524 1
Your comment is currently scored 1.
-1 for "Overrated"? Insane!!!
Don't you guys know about Monty Python films?
This is from "The Holy Grial" ! For heavens' sake!
There's a scene where a bunch of peasants want to burn a women. They say that she is a witch. And some Knight asks "How fdo you know that she is a withch?" And a peasant answers "She turned me into a newt!".
Hence the comment.
Overrated? What is overrated?
I'm pissed at one of the alledged "moderators". What overrating? From who did I recived any "overrating"?
The whole RPM thing is dead as far as I'm concerned. I've used RH since version 5 and I'm leaving it now (in stages) in favour of Debian, although I'm going to try Sorcery on one machine to see how it goes.
The reason is obvious: dependancy hell. I've had enough of it. Any system which uses RPMs is simply too hard to maintain.
Then, Try Mandrake Linux 8.1 and urmpi.
This is an "apt-get/install / update" for RPMs. With GUI (rpmdrake or MandrakeUpdate) and CLI (urpmi)interfaces. Works with RPMs located on a local / exported directory (hint! NFS server on your network!) or from http / ftp servers.
Pretty cool. It works. Really. Give it a try. I love it.
Mandrake uses urpmi and it does just what cavemanf16 described. urpmi is a tool mostly like Debian's apt-get . You do :
# urpmi gabber
and it will install the latest Gabber with its required libraries.
All from RPMs. And it has a GUI front-end called rpmdrake / MandrakeUpdate that let's you upgrade your system to latest security patch with the de facto, windows-like standardClick Next to continue kind of thing.
Man! I love Mandrake for this. And it is also a hell of a nice desktop!
But those stories serve as Marketing campaings. I mean, AFAIK, there's no http://marketing-Linux.sourceforge.net project nor you can go and provide a CD with marketing-Linux-kit-101.tar.gz to magazines, on-line sites and such.
Those news serve the purpose of a "GPL/comunnity-style" advertising.
Some corporations form the Northwest of the USA and other locations spend millions on advertisement and silly desktop backgrouds to appeal CIOs buying agenda.
The Community should appeal to them with "Yet Another Linux is Ready for the Desktop" group of news. This way, it can make its way to zdnet, Infoworld, ComputerWorld, CIO Magazine and the likes.
Maybe former dot-commers are not in Government-contractor firms (not yet) because the following points:
-Government-related positions run through a long and tedious line of HR, supervisors, interviews, political screening, more supervisors, more screening, yet more interviews... and all cluttered by unending bureaucracy. And now more than ever, after 9-11. So it takes some time (up to 2 years, IIRC from ComputerWorld or InfoWorld or something similar) from sending a resume to get hired.
-Many Government-related positions want only American citizens. Let's face it. Many IT workers are from outside the USA. So H1-B holders do not qualify. Then, permanent residents, legal aliens ans do on, also do not qualify. And, maybe, recent American-passport holders will not qualify by "security reasons".
-What is the ratio of Women in Government-contractor firms? How many managers do you see in Government Contractor firms? They all look to me like dinosaurs from the 60s. Yes, women only allowed as clerks.
So all this disqualify and dis-encourage most of former dot-commers: brilliant people that just cannot wait 2 years to get a job, people that has a good chance of being born elsewhere outside the US, and about 40% chance of being a women!
Hope those 2 years come-by fast, so I can get hired by Uncle Sam.
Do you mean that there are new episodies out there?
I thought that they were just re-runs. But... wait a minute! Yes! Mulder is never there! So, maybe there are new episodes.
I sincerely thought that my TV was going bad because Mulder really didn't look like Mulder, his voice was wierd and Scully never used 'Mulder' when assressing Mulder... or whoever is Mulder-2.0-i386.rpm right now...
I guess it's time to cancel the appointment with the TV technician and the cable guy.
Given Microsoft Corp. track of press announcements, vaporware and talks about "... the next version will fullfill this need.." I foresee this as YAMK (Yet Another Marketing Campaing).
Come on. You do not need to be an expert in marketing tactics. But for a company that is expending $1 billion (that is, $1,000 million in Europe) just in advertising for the XP family... It just makes sense that, after having everybody talking about how much security is needed, Microsoft promises that it will deliver just that. Next version, of course.
Microsoft has been making promises like this since it was created. It has hardly delivered... on time. The record is out there. Our money, in their bank accounts. And they still are saying that the next product will have this or that feature that we need right now.
Come on! We can be naive! But not after 20 years of not delivering!
OTOH, Microsoft Marketing Department would do great promoting the virtues of democracy around the world. In 20 years, everyone and their mothers would be triying to be a democracy.
It is A Good Ting (tm) that Borland actualy changed the license.
It makes them seem to care for their customer base (like me, a customer that bought Kylix), when they (we) politely cry "You Morons! what kind of terms are those? And next, you'll ask for my first born, right?" in their face -actualy, the letter that I sent was more polite. And had no 'F' words on it-.
But it is also A Bad Thing (tm).
Yes, they published a license that was way over the top. Specialy, when everyone and their mother seems to be asking for a much limited set of private personal freedom and right (for our own protection, of course). And, of course, a good corporation must mimmic the government. So, let's throw some lawyers to the License Dept. and make them review the licensing terms, so we can count on unexpected revenues if nobody discovers what we have done.
Let's face it. Borland is just YAC (Yet Another Corporation). Their goal is to make money. No matter what.
But I replied to a post "A" and I included information from a previous post "B". This previous post "B" happened to be the origin of the data and comment in post "A".
And I replied to "A" and commenting information from post "B".
This post "B" is what I considere the "original post", because it is the first posts that tells the whole story.
Well, I turn it on by default, storing log files on cheap backup tape. So I know who messed up with the system. This saved my butt more than once.
Also, I completely agree with you about BSA being bullish. They have o prove that you committed a crime. Heck, I own a car that can go over 35 MPH and cops do not stop me on every corner because "I can go faster than 35, so I am guilty of going over 35".
I thought that, in the USA, you were innocent until proven guilty.
But, nevertheless, I support the idea of BSA giving a run for its money to unlawful companies. And to individuals, using too much "borrowed software".
If they were using legal (payed for software), where would be Microsoft's desktop dominance?
So it is a case of mixed feelings: Go for them, but I cannot support someone presusming someone else guilty until proven the contrary.
Anyway. the best option is use OpenSource and be merry.
The original post, so it says: They use Netware, and Netware is a product from Novel Inc.:
They also arrange penalties for any discovered "violations". Some of these can quickly get out of hand. For example, in my case, a copy of WordPerfect 5.1 (yes, in 1997!) was lying around on a Netware server which 350 people had access to.
An about NDS, I just said that nowadays, with NDS, it would be easier to get this kind of data. I say nothing of the original poster using NDS.
Now, what about the $1 Billion penalty that some EU -leaked document proposed as a way to finish Microsoft trial in Europe?
I know that $35 Billion is a lot, but 41 Billion is still a lot... and will claim for the attention from some judge that pretended not to enfuriate a big corporation while we are at war... or so I understand form the... hilarious? sad? incredible? decision to do nothing to Microsoft after being found guilty.
I mean, if I gt a ticket I must pay a fine. Why not Microsoft?
Sincerely puzzled,
O.
Re:Security != Justice ?
on
The Drone War
·
· Score: 3, Flamebait
This is, in fact pretty hilarious.
The fact is: most of the UN members are bunch of representatives from non-democratic governments.
Most of them torture their own citizens, forbid human rights to their citizens while they claim for themselves (while traqveling to democratic countries) the same rights that they deny to any visitor to their own country.
Please, do not make me laugh.
UN is a non-fucntional body. It is a mirage.
How can you have China, for example, in the Secutiy Council? The same China that is non-democratic, that abuses its own citizens, that is a nest of corruption, that holds foreign land under military rule, that excludes foreign nationals to have rights... unless they have the money to bribe, of course.
And the same goes for manyt extremist countries that held seat and vote in the UN Council.
How do they dare (how do you dare) to support resolutions against democratic countries and elected governments?
Do not be so childish as to close your eyes to the fact that every single country looks towards expanding its influence, power, money and all that that you only seem to associate to the US.
Tell that to the governments of Saudi Arabia, China, Russia, Iran, Somalya, Syria, Pakistan...
In the US you have the right to critisize your Government. You can vote them off from office if you do not like them. You can demonstrate against government policy. You can sue the government.
Try that in a random country from the UN Council. Chances are that, just thinking about this will be a sure passage to torture, inprisonement and possibly death.
Be real. Accept the fact that realpolitik rule the world. This is not an utopy. This is Real Planet Earth, not a Star Trek Federation of some sort.
I use both Mandrake and Red Hat. And IMHO, urpmi is better than up2date. I've been using urpmi (or its GUI interface, MandrakeUpdate) for a while.
And URPMI just plain works.
Every day, I fire it up to check if there's something to be updated on my system. If there is, I upgrade no problem. If there are dependencies, you can opt what to do. And it has the same interface as the SoftwareManager. So it's the same thing installing, uninstalling or upgrading.
This is called consistence.
I've read that some poster tried to update the Kernel with this tool from the GUI. I can only say "you moron!". When there's some Kernel to be upgraded, some library to be upgraded, I take my time to read what is this alla bout. So, reading a little can save your butt. What is wrong with that ?
Also, when updating KDE make sure that you are not running KDE. Idem with Gnome.
Anyway, I would recommend to home users wanting to avoid rpm-hell to try Mandrake + URPMI / MandrakeUpdate.
Hopefuly, Red Hat will take URPMI and implement it on their distribution.
In short, it will convince you that, instead being nice, either you sould be charging money (even to your family) or either you shouyld install Linux instead so the computer won't break.
If you do not do it, you are in danger of expending many many hours fixing computers for free and letting grow the untrue legend that Windows is easy and can be used by anyone.
Slashdot Mirror
After reading the whole thing, I came to the conclusion that this is an unfair comparison:
...
-They only count bugs for one Microsoft OS product. I mean, there's Win95, Win95osr2, Win98, Win98SE, Win2000, WinME, WinCE, WinNT4.0...
-They count one bug for each distribution. I mean, if a bug is detected on rsync, it shows as one different bug for every distribution, that is, one but for Mandrake 7.0, one for Debian, one for Mandrake 7.1
So, this makes me wonder if the journalist is plainly uninformed or if has no idea of what he is talking about (a laid-off journmalist from the gardening section re-hired for a tech-writter position).
The conspiracy theories, black helicopters and Microsoft-payed journalists, from my point of view, do not apply here.
Well, who said the world was fair?
Ahem,
Actually it is SuSE the one that "fixes" the changes you might have made to the config files.
On Mandrake, you can happily hack with ed/vim/emacs your config files and they will remain just as you left them.
What kind of moderators rate "Informative" a false post?
urpmi
urpmi solves rpm hell. And it lets you install security fixes in a controlled, working way. CLI or GUI is your choice.
This is what I got on my e-mail:
2 616
4 1
A user has given a "Overrated" (-1) moderation to your comment.
Re:I hope these stories end soon...
http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=26885&cid=290
Attached to:
Linux & the Business Desktop
http://slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=02/01/25/13452
Your comment is currently scored 1.
-1 for "Overrated"? Insane!!!
Don't you guys know about Monty Python films?
This is from "The Holy Grial" ! For heavens' sake!
There's a scene where a bunch of peasants want to burn a women. They say that she is a witch. And some Knight asks "How fdo you know that she is a withch?" And a peasant answers "She turned me into a newt!".
Hence the comment.
Overrated? What is overrated?
I'm pissed at one of the alledged "moderators". What overrating? From who did I recived any "overrating"?
Lack of knowledge is not an excuse.
Dependency Hell?
/uninstall / upgrades .
Difficulty to install stuff?
Gamming issues?
Try Mandrake Linux Gamming Edition:
WineX for your gamming needs.
Nice GUI/CLI for unified install
urpmi (the CLI) solves "dependency hell". The front-end "rpmdrake / MandrakeUpdate" is the nice GUI front-end.
In two words: it works.
The whole RPM thing is dead as far as I'm concerned. I've used RH since version 5 and I'm leaving it now (in stages) in favour of Debian, although I'm going to try Sorcery on one machine to see how it goes.
/install / update" for RPMs. With GUI (rpmdrake or MandrakeUpdate) and CLI (urpmi)interfaces. Works with RPMs located on a local / exported directory (hint! NFS server on your network!) or from http / ftp servers.
The reason is obvious: dependancy hell. I've had enough of it. Any system which uses RPMs is simply too hard to maintain.
Then, Try Mandrake Linux 8.1 and urmpi.
This is an "apt-get
Pretty cool. It works. Really. Give it a try. I love it.
Yes,
Mandrake uses urpmi and it does just what cavemanf16 described. urpmi is a tool mostly like Debian's apt-get . You do :
# urpmi gabber
and it will install the latest Gabber with its required libraries.
All from RPMs. And it has a GUI front-end called rpmdrake / MandrakeUpdate that let's you upgrade your system to latest security patch with the de facto, windows-like standard Click Next to continue kind of thing.
Man! I love Mandrake for this. And it is also a hell of a nice desktop!
Just pick your choice:
This one
This too
Even this one
What about this other one?
Also:
Easy upgrades to all the boxes
Customized set-ups out of the box (I mean, internationalization for example, is a big deal)
No users installing the latest shareware/warez form internet that break the machine
Linux Terminal Server Project
Choice
Save Money
Aha... he's obviously used to Windows! Check his IP address! He's from Redmond! Burn him as a witch!
Yes! He turned me into a newt!
I agree.
But those stories serve as Marketing campaings. I mean, AFAIK, there's no http://marketing-Linux.sourceforge.net project nor you can go and provide a CD with marketing-Linux-kit-101.tar.gz to magazines, on-line sites and such.
Those news serve the purpose of a "GPL/comunnity-style" advertising.
Some corporations form the Northwest of the USA and other locations spend millions on advertisement and silly desktop backgrouds to appeal CIOs buying agenda.
The Community should appeal to them with "Yet Another Linux is Ready for the Desktop" group of news. This way, it can make its way to zdnet, Infoworld, ComputerWorld, CIO Magazine and the likes.
Maybe former dot-commers are not in Government-contractor firms (not yet) because the following points:
-Government-related positions run through a long and tedious line of HR, supervisors, interviews, political screening, more supervisors, more screening, yet more interviews... and all cluttered by unending bureaucracy. And now more than ever, after 9-11. So it takes some time (up to 2 years, IIRC from ComputerWorld or InfoWorld or something similar) from sending a resume to get hired.
-Many Government-related positions want only American citizens. Let's face it. Many IT workers are from outside the USA. So H1-B holders do not qualify. Then, permanent residents, legal aliens ans do on, also do not qualify. And, maybe, recent American-passport holders will not qualify by "security reasons".
-What is the ratio of Women in Government-contractor firms? How many managers do you see in Government Contractor firms? They all look to me like dinosaurs from the 60s. Yes, women only allowed as clerks.
So all this disqualify and dis-encourage most of former dot-commers: brilliant people that just cannot wait 2 years to get a job, people that has a good chance of being born elsewhere outside the US, and about 40% chance of being a women!
Hope those 2 years come-by fast, so I can get hired by Uncle Sam.
Of course this is my opinion as I see it.
Plese, what do you think?
What?
Do you mean that there are new episodies out there?
I thought that they were just re-runs. But... wait a minute! Yes! Mulder is never there! So, maybe there are new episodes.
I sincerely thought that my TV was going bad because Mulder really didn't look like Mulder, his voice was wierd and Scully never used 'Mulder' when assressing Mulder... or whoever is Mulder-2.0-i386.rpm right now...
I guess it's time to cancel the appointment with the TV technician and the cable guy.
Given Microsoft Corp. track of press announcements, vaporware and talks about "... the next version will fullfill this need.." I foresee this as YAMK (Yet Another Marketing Campaing).
Come on. You do not need to be an expert in marketing tactics. But for a company that is expending $1 billion (that is, $1,000 million in Europe) just in advertising for the XP family... It just makes sense that, after having everybody talking about how much security is needed, Microsoft promises that it will deliver just that. Next version, of course.
Microsoft has been making promises like this since it was created. It has hardly delivered... on time. The record is out there. Our money, in their bank accounts. And they still are saying that the next product will have this or that feature that we need right now.
Come on! We can be naive! But not after 20 years of not delivering!
OTOH, Microsoft Marketing Department would do great promoting the virtues of democracy around the world. In 20 years, everyone and their mothers would be triying to be a democracy.
Ah! The power of Marketing!
It is A Good Ting (tm) that Borland actualy changed the license.
It makes them seem to care for their customer base (like me, a customer that bought Kylix), when they (we) politely cry "You Morons! what kind of terms are those? And next, you'll ask for my first born, right?" in their face -actualy, the letter that I sent was more polite. And had no 'F' words on it-.
But it is also A Bad Thing (tm).
Yes, they published a license that was way over the top. Specialy, when everyone and their mother seems to be asking for a much limited set of private personal freedom and right (for our own protection, of course). And, of course, a good corporation must mimmic the government. So, let's throw some lawyers to the License Dept. and make them review the licensing terms, so we can count on unexpected revenues if nobody discovers what we have done.
Let's face it. Borland is just YAC (Yet Another Corporation). Their goal is to make money. No matter what.
Or so I see it.
How do you see it?
Excuse me if you were mistaken.
But I replied to a post "A" and I included information from a previous post "B". This previous post "B" happened to be the origin of the data and comment in post "A".
And I replied to "A" and commenting information from post "B".
This post "B" is what I considere the "original post", because it is the first posts that tells the whole story.
Post B is this one
Post "A" is this one
Is it complicated? Sure. But this is Slashdot.
Have a good one.
Well, I turn it on by default, storing log files on cheap backup tape. So I know who messed up with the system. This saved my butt more than once.
Also, I completely agree with you about BSA being bullish. They have o prove that you committed a crime. Heck, I own a car that can go over 35 MPH and cops do not stop me on every corner because "I can go faster than 35, so I am guilty of going over 35".
I thought that, in the USA, you were innocent until proven guilty.
But, nevertheless, I support the idea of BSA giving a run for its money to unlawful companies. And to individuals, using too much "borrowed software".
If they were using legal (payed for software), where would be Microsoft's desktop dominance?
So it is a case of mixed feelings: Go for them, but I cannot support someone presusming someone else guilty until proven the contrary.
Anyway. the best option is use OpenSource and be merry.
The original post, so it says: They use Netware, and Netware is a product from Novel Inc.:
They also arrange penalties for any discovered "violations". Some of these can quickly get out of hand. For example, in my case, a copy of WordPerfect 5.1 (yes, in 1997!) was lying around on a Netware server which 350 people had access to.
An about NDS, I just said that nowadays, with NDS, it would be easier to get this kind of data. I say nothing of the original poster using NDS.
Please, read twice before posting. Thank you.
Actually, with a Novell Fileserver it is possible and easy to prove who, when and how many times someone accessed a file in the server.
This is true since Novell 3.x as far as I remember. Now, with NDS is much easier.
So I guess that bad Novell admins costed that company a little fortune by means of not knowing the possibilities of their system.
Something similar happened to a Mandrake Linux Shop, when they recieved a threatening letter from BSA as posted on alt.os.linux.mandrake:
Check out the post started the thread .
..is that they are offering a real product. Most of other stuff sround is just a major advertising campaing with no product behind.
Let alone, giving one to some tester! Anf it runs Linux!
Hats off.
Good point.
... hilarious? sad? incredible? decision to do nothing to Microsoft after being found guilty.
Now, what about the $1 Billion penalty that some EU -leaked document proposed as a way to finish Microsoft trial in Europe?
I know that $35 Billion is a lot, but 41 Billion is still a lot... and will claim for the attention from some judge that pretended not to enfuriate a big corporation while we are at war... or so I understand form the
I mean, if I gt a ticket I must pay a fine. Why not Microsoft?
Sincerely puzzled,
O.
This is, in fact pretty hilarious.
The fact is: most of the UN members are bunch of representatives from non-democratic governments.
Most of them torture their own citizens, forbid human rights to their citizens while they claim for themselves (while traqveling to democratic countries) the same rights that they deny to any visitor to their own country.
Please, do not make me laugh.
UN is a non-fucntional body. It is a mirage.
How can you have China, for example, in the Secutiy Council? The same China that is non-democratic, that abuses its own citizens, that is a nest of corruption, that holds foreign land under military rule, that excludes foreign nationals to have rights... unless they have the money to bribe, of course.
And the same goes for manyt extremist countries that held seat and vote in the UN Council.
How do they dare (how do you dare) to support resolutions against democratic countries and elected governments?
Do not be so childish as to close your eyes to the fact that every single country looks towards expanding its influence, power, money and all that that you only seem to associate to the US.
Tell that to the governments of Saudi Arabia, China, Russia, Iran, Somalya, Syria, Pakistan...
In the US you have the right to critisize your Government. You can vote them off from office if you do not like them. You can demonstrate against government policy. You can sue the government.
Try that in a random country from the UN Council. Chances are that, just thinking about this will be a sure passage to torture, inprisonement and possibly death.
Be real. Accept the fact that realpolitik rule the world. This is not an utopy. This is Real Planet Earth, not a Star Trek Federation of some sort.
Hi,
I use both Mandrake and Red Hat. And IMHO, urpmi is better than up2date. I've been using urpmi (or its GUI interface, MandrakeUpdate) for a while.
And URPMI just plain works.
Every day, I fire it up to check if there's something to be updated on my system. If there is, I upgrade no problem. If there are dependencies, you can opt what to do. And it has the same interface as the SoftwareManager. So it's the same thing installing, uninstalling or upgrading.
This is called consistence.
I've read that some poster tried to update the Kernel with this tool from the GUI. I can only say "you moron!". When there's some Kernel to be upgraded, some library to be upgraded, I take my time to read what is this alla bout. So, reading a little can save your butt. What is wrong with that ?
Also, when updating KDE make sure that you are not running KDE. Idem with Gnome.
Anyway, I would recommend to home users wanting to avoid rpm-hell to try Mandrake + URPMI / MandrakeUpdate.
Hopefuly, Red Hat will take URPMI and implement it on their distribution.
All the best,
opkool
(sorry for the extension).
Man, I just wish you understood Spanish!
There's what it's called Praingao HOWTO. It is a (mostly humoristic) view of what happens to friendly people that knows about computers.
It is here.
In short, it will convince you that, instead being nice, either you sould be charging money (even to your family) or either you shouyld install Linux instead so the computer won't break.
If you do not do it, you are in danger of expending many many hours fixing computers for free and letting grow the untrue legend that Windows is easy and can be used by anyone.
Try using Babelfish. It is worth it.