Java is already proven and adopted industry-wide. C# is not. MS is being called out for attempting to gain a bit of de facto acceptance by the old 'indoctrinate the youth' ploy. All those saying, 'what's wrong with more languages being taught', I say, go invent a language and see if you can get it taught as a required course a year later at any university.
"Becuase it can be integrated with most other programming languages"
So can Java:
"The following is a list of programming languages for the Java virtual machine aside of Java itself. Currently (spring 2002), it comprises about 160 different systems. It is a mix of experimental, research oriented implementations and of commercial ones. I excluded extensions to Java by the provision of class libraries implementing the functionality of other languages constructs. The source code of a program executed in the Java VM has to have a syntax different to Java to be included in this list."
I'm not a big fan of Gore by any stretch, but these kind comments are beyond stale.
From http://internet-history.org/memories/0055.html:
Al Gore has been one of my heroes for the last decade. I became aware of him around 1990 when he started being quoted a lot by the engineering types working on internetworking issues: He was the first legislator who actually appreciated what the internet was all about, and he helped guide the 'net through a very tricky transition.
When the 'net got started in the 1970's, every computer scientist who heard about it was jazzed, but only a very select clique could get to touch it: The hardware for the internet was these special computers called IMPs (I think that was short for Intelligent Message Processors) built by Honeywell, and outfitted with software and some minor hardware modifications by Bolt Beranek and Newman, and engineering company in Cambridge, Massachussetts. In order to get one of those, you had to be a research institution with contract funded research for the Advanced Research Projects Agency of the US Department of Defense. I think the rental for an IMP was something like $100,000 per year, which had to be paid out of the overhead on the research contracts, so small colleges need not apply!
Around 1980-82, the ARPAnet had grown to include major military posts, defense contracting companies and most universities that had any defense research contracts at all. It was now carrying several different classes of traffic: - administrative traffic for the military - administrative traffic between the military and its contractors - and acting as a testbed for research experiments in protocol development. During this period, TCP was developed, and the network switched from the original NCP protocol to TCP/IP. Shortly after that, the network had grown so large that it had run out of numbers for the IMPs (the hardware allowed 8 bits for the IMP number) and it was split into two separate networks connected by some routers called "mail bridges": - network number 10 - ARPAnet - network number 26 - MILnet
This split also helped calm the fears of some military people who were worried about sharing a network with potentially subversive students. This fear is why the connection between the networks was called "mail bridges" implying that only the relatively safe e-mail could get across. Despite the name, however, those were really full-fledged routers, providing a completely seamless connection.
With IP installed, and the newly invented ethernet allowing for affordable campus networks, the major universities started attaching campus networks to the ARPAnet backbone, using VAX-11/780 mini-computers with the network-aware version of UNIX that ARPA had paid University of California at Berkeley to develop.
Many of the smaller universities wanted to participate, but did not have any military reaserch contracts to qualify them, so they banded together to build a compatible network running TCP/IP over X.25 (Telenet, Tymnet). This was known as CS-NET (for Computer Science network).
By 1989, the university-to-university traffic had dwarfed the military traffic, and the DoD wanted to divest itself of the overheads of running the network, so they asked the National Science Foundation to take over. Around this time, the NSF had started a program to build - I think it was 9 - national supercomputer centers, and needed to link them with the potential users at universities. They rented a bunch of 56 kbps lines - of the same kind that ARPAnet ran on - and installed a bunch of routers built out of inexpensive PDP-11/23 minicomputers, using a software package called FUZZBALL, developed by professor Dave Mills of University of Delaware. This created a second backbone, parallel to the DoD-sponsored ARPA backbone. Since NSFnet had no military funding, there was no longer a requirement for military contracts to be connected, but since it was paid for by tax dolllars earmarked for reasearch in the national interest, it was not available to businesses, except in support of government paid research.
It was at this point that Senator Gore stepped in, and basically brokered a deal where NSF stopped paying for the network, and instead gave the universities money to buy network services. This made it possible to start network companies to compete with NSFnet and its regional affiliates. Several of the NSF-funded affiliates re-invented tehmselves overnight into for-profit ventures. NYSERnet became PSI, for example.
Without this visionary plan, there would not have been a commercial Internet.
-------------------
He has NEVER CLAIMED to have single-handedly created the internet. And it sounds to me like we could do much worse than to have him take the stand on the RIAA issue.
No, they were/are criminal. Funny how you can get ahead when you cheat. If MS hadn't been around, the entire industry would be different, but still here. Computers were fscking _destined_ to be in the home. I think the Commodore and Atari machines pretty much proved that to begin with.
That is nonsense. Two things were abundantly clear to the parents of myself and my friends in the early '80s. One was that you could use computers to manage information (finances,wp,etc) and two was that they were general purpose devices that could do other things too. Related to that was the fact that there were us kids begging for them to play games and learn to program on. There was quite a bit of competition back then too - Apple, IBM, Commodore, Atari, Tandy, Kaypro, hell remember the Coleco Adam?! And they were all pretty distinct systems. So no, I totally refute the premise that computers would not have been taken up by society just as quickly without the MS domination of the last decade+. The demand was already there and growing.
Dew is a high caffiene cotton-mouth killer. The only way it could be better is if it contained actual nutrition and knocked out the munchies at the same time! But only as a companion product. Don't fsck with the Dew!! Heh. Maybe I've had too many...
In the early 80's there was a company that made a joystick which had no base and used mercury switches to detect tilt. You just held it in the air and moved it around, much like this gyro-mouse. It wasn't cordless but damn did I want one! Anyone here actually get to use one of those things?
Speak for yourself. You may think that doing a half-assed job is just fine until someone complains, but that's not how a professional operates. My latest web app is used nationwide by over 2000 auto dealerships and processes ~30000 apps a month, and I can assure you that going IE only was never even an option. In fact I would likely have been fired. Beyond all that, I would truly enjoy hearing you explain to a business manager that you had purposely designed a system that some (even if only a few) of your customers cannot access easily.
Michael: My father's no different than any other powerful man. Any man who's responsible for other people, like a Senator, or a President. Kay: Do you know how naive you sound? Michael: Why? Kay: Senators and Presidents don't have men killed. Michael: Oh. Who's being naive, Kay?
"Terrorism is murder, death, mayhem. Whatever your opinions on Microsoft (and I'll reserve mine) they are in no way as evil as those who would kill innocent men women and children to further their own agenda."
From the American Heritage dictionary terrorism is defined as:
The unlawful use or threatened use of force or violence by a person or an organized group against people or property with the intention of intimidating or coercing societies or governments, often for ideological or political reasons.
Preface "force" with "economic", and replace "governments" and "political" with "corporations" and "financial", and it sounds like a perfect description of MS behavior to me. Amoral behavior is amoral regardless of the arena.
MS was proven to have broken the law and yet nothing is being done about it. This is wrong. Period.
Furthermore, using what the general public does and doesn't care about as a final measure of whether something is important or not is beyond facile. By that reckoning Dale Earnhardt would've been elected to office posthumously and King of the Hill would be on for two-hours five nights a week, followed by a Cops mini-marathon.
I just got done writing the exact app I mentioned (credit app taking) using Java servlets with Velocity and client-side Javascript. Exactly as you described and no it isn't rocket science. The app is used by over 3000 car dealerships nationwide. We ain't gonna support a desktop app for all those people, no freaking way. And no it isn't targetted at one single browser/platform. And it works beautifully, taking over 30000 apps a month. And it uses Javascript for preliminary client-side validation of data so as to reduce traffic for us and lag for the user. Could have _made_ it work without JS, but that would have been retarded.
Now tell us about the large-scale project have you successfully completed and how was it structured.
It's really obvious that the people posting derisive comments about Javascript have never had to develop a site that actually does anything useful. Try creating some pages that accept a credit application without using Javascript (and MS-only shit need not apply). If/when you even get basic DOB validation done, show it to us.
LEXX
Re:RedHat/Microsoft Announce Linux.net
on
.NET for Apache
·
· Score: 2
MonoNuclear....ummm
Scratch that. Forget it completely, you hear me?! It never even entered the collective unconcious, OK?!! (Note to self- shelter, canned goods, gold)
Utterly classic. That very nicely sums up the nature of the problem with copyrights. Estate in this context meaning (to me anyway) "people who had nothing to do with the original works yet want to profit from them, in perpetuity". Right and one of my ancestors was related to the first cave-dweller who banged a rock rythmically. Every fscking person in the entire music industry OWES ME!
Slashdot Mirror
Java is already proven and adopted industry-wide. C# is not. MS is being called out for attempting to gain a bit of de facto acceptance by the old 'indoctrinate the youth' ploy. All those saying, 'what's wrong with more languages being taught', I say, go invent a language and see if you can get it taught as a required course a year later at any university.
LEXX
"Becuase it can be integrated with most other programming languages"
So can Java:
"The following is a list of programming languages for the Java virtual machine aside of Java itself. Currently (spring 2002), it comprises about 160 different systems. It is a mix of experimental, research oriented implementations and of commercial ones. I excluded extensions to Java by the provision of class libraries implementing the functionality of other languages constructs. The source code of a program executed in the Java VM has to have a syntax different to Java to be included in this list."
Here is the list.
LEXX
What he said was factually correct. Read my comment above. And I'm not apologizing for anyone, merely pointing out that you are wrong.
LEXX
I'm not a big fan of Gore by any stretch, but these kind comments are beyond stale.
From http://internet-history.org/memories/0055.html:
Al Gore has been one of my heroes for the last decade. I became aware of him around 1990 when he started being quoted a lot by the engineering types working on internetworking issues: He was the first legislator who actually appreciated what the internet was all about, and he helped guide the 'net through a very tricky transition.
When the 'net got started in the 1970's, every computer scientist who heard about it was jazzed, but only a very select clique could get to touch it: The hardware for the internet was these special computers called IMPs (I think that was short for Intelligent Message Processors) built by Honeywell, and outfitted with software and some minor hardware modifications by Bolt Beranek and Newman, and engineering company in Cambridge, Massachussetts. In order to get one of those, you had to be a research institution with contract funded research for the Advanced Research Projects Agency of the US Department of Defense. I think the rental for an IMP was something like $100,000 per year, which had to be paid out of the overhead on the research contracts, so small colleges need not apply!
Around 1980-82, the ARPAnet had grown to include major military posts, defense contracting companies and most universities that had any defense research contracts at all. It was now carrying several different classes of traffic:
- administrative traffic for the military
- administrative traffic between the military and its contractors
- and acting as a testbed for research experiments in protocol
development.
During this period, TCP was developed, and the network switched from the original NCP protocol to TCP/IP. Shortly after that, the network had grown so large that it had run out of numbers for the IMPs (the hardware allowed 8 bits for the IMP number) and it was split into two separate networks connected by some routers called "mail bridges":
- network number 10 - ARPAnet
- network number 26 - MILnet
This split also helped calm the fears of some military people who were worried about sharing a network with potentially subversive students. This fear is why the connection between the networks was called "mail bridges" implying that only the relatively safe e-mail could get across. Despite the name, however, those were really full-fledged routers, providing a completely seamless connection.
With IP installed, and the newly invented ethernet allowing for affordable campus networks, the major universities started attaching campus networks to the ARPAnet backbone, using VAX-11/780 mini-computers with the network-aware version of UNIX that ARPA had paid University of California at Berkeley to develop.
Many of the smaller universities wanted to participate, but did not have any military reaserch contracts to qualify them, so they banded together to build a compatible network running TCP/IP over X.25 (Telenet, Tymnet). This was known as CS-NET (for Computer Science network).
By 1989, the university-to-university traffic had dwarfed the military traffic, and the DoD wanted to divest itself of the overheads of running the network, so they asked the National Science Foundation to take over. Around this time, the NSF had started a program to build - I think it was 9 - national supercomputer centers, and needed to link them with the potential users at universities. They rented a bunch of 56 kbps lines - of the same kind that ARPAnet ran on - and installed a bunch of routers built out of inexpensive PDP-11/23 minicomputers, using a software package called FUZZBALL, developed by professor Dave Mills of University of Delaware. This created a second backbone, parallel to the DoD-sponsored ARPA backbone. Since NSFnet had no military funding, there was no longer a requirement for military contracts to be connected, but since it was paid for by tax dolllars earmarked for reasearch in the national interest, it was not available to businesses, except in support of government paid research.
It was at this point that Senator Gore stepped in, and basically brokered a deal where NSF stopped paying for the network, and instead gave the universities money to buy network services. This made it possible to start network companies to compete with NSFnet and its regional affiliates. Several of the NSF-funded affiliates re-invented tehmselves overnight into for-profit ventures. NYSERnet became PSI, for example.
Without this visionary plan, there would not have been a commercial Internet.
-------------------
He has NEVER CLAIMED to have single-handedly created the internet. And it sounds to me like we could do much worse than to have him take the stand on the RIAA issue.
LEXX
"THESE GUYS WANT TO KILL US."
Which is still no excuse to give up the freedoms that many Americans _ALREADY DIED TO PRESERVE_.
LEXX
You may not be aware of this, but IE doesn't run on Linux, BSD, Solaris, etc.
LEXX
This strikes me as being much like celebrating on the anniversary of Hiroshima, considering that tv was pretty much a cultural nuke. Ugh.
LEXX
"MS wasn't lucky, they were smart."
No, they were/are criminal. Funny how you can get ahead when you cheat. If MS hadn't been around, the entire industry would be different, but still here. Computers were fscking _destined_ to be in the home. I think the Commodore and Atari machines pretty much proved that to begin with.
LEXX
That is nonsense. Two things were abundantly clear to the parents of myself and my friends in the early '80s. One was that you could use computers to manage information (finances,wp,etc) and two was that they were general purpose devices that could do other things too. Related to that was the fact that there were us kids begging for them to play games and learn to program on. There was quite a bit of competition back then too - Apple, IBM, Commodore, Atari, Tandy, Kaypro, hell remember the Coleco Adam?! And they were all pretty distinct systems. So no, I totally refute the premise that computers would not have been taken up by society just as quickly without the MS domination of the last decade+. The demand was already there and growing.
LEXX
Dew is a high caffiene cotton-mouth killer. The only way it could be better is if it contained actual nutrition and knocked out the munchies at the same time! But only as a companion product. Don't fsck with the Dew!! Heh. Maybe I've had too many...
LEXX
In the early 80's there was a company that made a joystick which had no base and used mercury switches to detect tilt. You just held it in the air and moved it around, much like this gyro-mouse. It wasn't cordless but damn did I want one! Anyone here actually get to use one of those things?
LEXX
Yeah, it's a bitch finding ones that are biased toward the truth! :)
LEXX
Speak for yourself. You may think that doing a half-assed job is just fine until someone complains, but that's not how a professional operates. My latest web app is used nationwide by over 2000 auto dealerships and processes ~30000 apps a month, and I can assure you that going IE only was never even an option. In fact I would likely have been fired. Beyond all that, I would truly enjoy hearing you explain to a business manager that you had purposely designed a system that some (even if only a few) of your customers cannot access easily.
LEXX
Michael: My father's no different than any other powerful man. Any man who's responsible for other people, like a Senator, or a President.
Kay: Do you know how naive you sound?
Michael: Why?
Kay: Senators and Presidents don't have men killed.
Michael: Oh. Who's being naive, Kay?
LEXX
I did not have fraud with that corporation.
:)
Mr. Brain is reporting a parse error on this, but adds that it's mildly enjoyable!
LEXX
"Terrorism is murder, death, mayhem. Whatever your opinions on Microsoft (and I'll reserve mine) they are in no way as evil as those who would kill innocent men women and children to further their own agenda."
From the American Heritage dictionary terrorism is defined as:
The unlawful use or threatened use of force or violence by a person or an organized group against people or property with the intention of intimidating or coercing societies or governments, often for ideological or political reasons.
Preface "force" with "economic", and replace "governments" and "political" with "corporations" and "financial", and it sounds like a perfect description of MS behavior to me. Amoral behavior is amoral regardless of the arena.
LEXX
And I'll never understand people like you either.
MS was proven to have broken the law and yet nothing is being done about it. This is wrong. Period.
Furthermore, using what the general public does and doesn't care about as a final measure of whether something is important or not is beyond facile. By that reckoning Dale Earnhardt would've been elected to office posthumously and King of the Hill would be on for two-hours five nights a week, followed by a Cops mini-marathon.
LEXX
"1. Graphic cards are getting faster and faster and all games can be played in emulator with normal speed"
Wine Is Not an Emulator
LEXX
OK, my first reply was hasty and a bad example.
I just got done writing the exact app I mentioned (credit app taking) using Java servlets with Velocity and client-side Javascript. Exactly as you described and no it isn't rocket science. The app is used by over 3000 car dealerships nationwide. We ain't gonna support a desktop app for all those people, no freaking way. And no it isn't targetted at one single browser/platform. And it works beautifully, taking over 30000 apps a month. And it uses Javascript for preliminary client-side validation of data so as to reduce traffic for us and lag for the user. Could have _made_ it work without JS, but that would have been retarded.
Now tell us about the large-scale project have you successfully completed and how was it structured.
LEXX
Right, so you're going to send all the form data over the wire just to find out they put in 30/11/2000 instead of 11/30/2000. WTFever.
LEXX
It's really obvious that the people posting derisive comments about Javascript have never had to develop a site that actually does anything useful. Try creating some pages that accept a credit application without using Javascript (and MS-only shit need not apply). If/when you even get basic DOB validation done, show it to us.
LEXX
MonoNuclear....ummm
Scratch that. Forget it completely, you hear me?! It never even entered the collective unconcious, OK?!! (Note to self- shelter, canned goods, gold)
LEXX
"The estate of John Cage is upset"
Utterly classic. That very nicely sums up the nature of the problem with copyrights. Estate in this context meaning (to me anyway) "people who had nothing to do with the original works yet want to profit from them, in perpetuity". Right and one of my ancestors was related to the first cave-dweller who banged a rock rythmically. Every fscking person in the entire music industry OWES ME!
LEXX
Someone at Harvey Clar's had a bit of auction on the brain when entering this one.
:)
1071 Wood cased resistance selector, probably 1930's and a Bakelite cased relistance selector, probably 1940's
Note that 'L' and 'S' aren't even remotely close to one another on the keyboard.
LEXX
OMG. The PDA is new, the company is not. How hard was that? I suggest staying inside today...
LEXX