// f*ck you palm:P - get around that darn limitation
you dont want to know how many times i have that comment in our code. its amazing how pissed you get when you find out the environment your programming for has limitations you would never expect:)
Ooh! Lemmings on Palm! Your stuff looks pretty sweet for the Palm.
lemmings:) yes, very very very nice game - loved it on my PC.. now, its portable *g*
So how's it working out for you? Are you making enough to pay your bills? It's just I like stories from people who've taken a risk on stuff like this, and I'm just wondering how you're finding it. I'm sure a lot of other people round here would be interested too.
well, we dont do it fulltime:) we want to *g*
i got into this stuff a few years ago, and, always maintained a fulltime occupation doing something:) getting experience in the field has created new opportunities (not many palm developers in sweden):) and, a lot of contracting work definately pays for everything. from the 'games' side, shareware is always an issue - but, there is enough coming in to get new devices (new toys), go to developer conferences and generally have a good time:)
as for doing it full time.. well - it all depends on how much you want to live on. these days, times are changing; if you want to sell, you gotta advertise.. the market is being saturated, so, its a dog-eat-dog world, unless your well known.:(
in today's times - you are better of setting up an 'at-home' development studio, and, write software for sale online. you may end up pulling in anything; doesn't really matter how much. first, you do something you like (maybe, program games)? and, you will own everything. you never know where you may end up in a few months.
ps: i did this myself, targetting PalmOS devices - and, i have never looked back!
> but as of yet the build chain hasn't been release.
wrong.
prc-tools 2.2 was released a few weeks back, it has an arm compiler included in the distribution. the 'mainstream' compiler (codewarrior) has arm support as of release 9; and, has been mentioned publically in developer forums and is currently in beta testing (some developers have that luxury). i also posted arm-gcc building instructions to my website on August 05, 2002. so, its not "impossible" to build stuff - if you are a developer, and, you have the desire to program armlets; you have had a chance to do this for months. its not news; palmsource showed arm units at PalmSource 2002 in february.
palm doesn't have an "internal" file system. everything is stored as a resource or record database. the data chunk is limited to 64k. there are API's available that allow filestreaming, which, pretty much do 'internal management' of your data in 4k record chunks:) a good programmer would support filestreaming.pdb files - i have written a number of utilities to convert from a normal file ->.pdb filestreaming.
You have not read the article. Nobody is asking you to give away the source code for free, but to include it with the binary. If I pay for something you spend 400 hours writing, I want the source to that as well. The source is part of the product.
i think you miss a simple point. first, a product is not the tools, sources, binaries. its what we choose to sell. that may, in many cases be the binary itself. we set a price on that.
now, being open about this, if i was to take my product, and, then say the source will be bundled with it - would you still be interested if i raised the price? lets say i make the cost with source 20x the price of the product without source. i would definately consider that, but, not release full source code for practically nothing.
as a palmos developer - this is not entirely true.
palmos 5.0 replicates palmos 4.1 and a few extra API's. they have developed a layer called PACE which allows emulation/transition of m68k on an ARM CPU. there are mechanisms for new API's (improved sound, hi-res etc) but - as a developer - you can also write "armlets" (i know, i have done it) which take advantage of the ARM cpu directly without emulation. it has become common discussion to write decoders, compression, encryption etc code within an armlet; things that have previously been hindered due to "limited" processing power.
palmos 6 is rumored to be a native ARM development platform. but, where palm and its beOS engineers go on that - is just speculation until it happens.
these images were leaked from within Palm, the etched out area is actually a serial number (which, they put prominantly on seeding units). people at Palm are not happy - this leak was internal; someone is going to lose their job. from discussions i have had with Palm personnel - they already know who did it.. so much for a severance package *g*
one hell of a smart guy; although strange at times (not at all bad). married to tiki swain - also another "unfound" talent. many would not see him as a "computer nerd" *g* - he is short, thin, hates working, hates wearing shoes - and, likes to live in the "wild". mcdonalds, coke, all other commercial stuff just isn't his cue - he prefers finding food in the wild:) overall a great guy - met him in march this year back in perth (australia). nice to see someone finally recognises some of his talent.
And what about the ethics of changing history? There would be government laws to control time travel, he believes.
just set the dial to before when this law has been passed and kill the people responsible for making the law:) little flaw to his argument dont you think?
This child (presuming it survives) is nothing more than a guinea pig for Dr. Antinori's ego. Will this child be able to live a normal life? No. Look at Dolly -- how many tests do you think she goes through on a daily basis?
do you think dolly is happy? doesn't matter if it is human or sheep or dog.. animal rights activists will be on your case forever.
the family involved surely much know the risks of doing such experiments - will they be prepared to terminate the child if it is deformed, and, would it pass as murder? thats where governments are really worried about such things.
push aside all ethetical and religious issues - but, this is science here! some may call it an advancement in humankind and, some will say it is a message of the devil. either way, we were given our own minds and the ability to control what we do with them - this does not make us evil or bad.. thats all the eye of the beholder.. the families involved in these tests want children - and, they dont want to seek alternative methods such as adoption (which, is understandable). i imagine in the future, it may even be possible to take two parents.. mix the genes of both and have a new child via cloning - you could take the best from both worlds (mother + father).. and, have a unique individual.
it makes me sick when governments try and get in the way to oppose research like this. it should however, be done with caution. we wouldn't want to see genetically engineered porn stars with 20" penises now would we (women, please refrain from commenting):P
hmm..actually the C on PalmOS is not really C..its got a bunch of the object oriented libraries instead of regular C calls which makes it look a lot like Java without the VM and safety
what the...? the headers look like C to me:) C++ is bloated and clumsy on palm - and, up until recently was very difficult to write on the Palm due to its limitations. my programs are C - there is no "object orientated" libraries.. just a bunch of header files with good old system trap level catches.
Would you please give me an URL to the projects you did with PalmOS and Java so I can check why your Java projects have not been successfull? Or your C/C++ projects? I mean, you must have a lot of experience doing Java on PalmOS, because you're doing this for 7 years now. So share your knowledge.
www.ardiri.com = our palm development site.
when you visit, you'll see why we didn't use java at such a level:) i explored the kvm back in 1999 when the palm v was given out cheaply with the kvm installed (at javaone). it just didn't have the balls to do what i wanted - so, i dug up the gcc compiler for palm (and, eventually ended up maintaining pilrc - the resource compiler).
as for the java projects and what i do with java, i primarially use it for server side solutions these days and the occasional quick and dirty ui (heck, i aint gonna use VC++ in win32) when coding some interactive applications. bottom line is that without the CPU power, java on pda's isn't worth the effort. j2me is also too simple for doing anything real:) [esp from gaming point, no direct frame access]
native compilers are the way to go, but, they have been few and far between - either massively out of date, or, not enough development push behind them to make it worth while [a few sdk releases behind or lacking many major system level features]. java is nice, but, like many other things in life - it has its time and place:) [<pun>long live c!!</pun>] - soon, it'll be worth it - it just hasn't been up to this point in time:)
now, one needs to ask - "can this same technology be used to break codes/algorithms used within security?" the article is a bit lacking in details of how they achieved this exactly, but, koas theory is in action here.
Java on the Palm has not been a major success primarially due to the processor speeds:( a number of virtual machines have been available (KVM (now, official j2me), waba) - and, there was even a project called "jump" which would compile java code natively into m68k code on the palm (but, lacked a lot of support) - [find it on sourceforge.net].
i am a Java programmer myself, been doing so since mid 1995 (heck, remember the 1.0 beta):P but, i have spent most of my development on the palm using C, and, where necessary for speed - resorting to native m68k assembly routiens. it just isn't possible to do something "impressive" with the Java engines are they are now - unfortunately:) but, it all depends on what you need it for.
sure - you can do it real time. ppc and palm can both obtain TCP/IP connections using additional hardware (ie: ir to phone, 802.11b via sled or CF cards). there are plenty of browsers on the palm, blazer (by handspring) is quite sufficient. the only problem with using a *real* browser to view *real* websites is that the content of the page is kinda useless unless it is formatted for use on a 160x160 screen or similar.
there are great advantages of using an offline sync process. you can sync in the morning, and, read the news/pages etc while you travel to work. mobile internet connectivity isn't free - unless, like you had in your position wireless access using your own router. if i was behind my own router, i would probably use my PC to read webpages than my PDA. if i was on a bus, the PDA might become more useful for doing such tasks.
The only protections I know of that indeed have given "breathing space" involved hardware dongles. No one used pirated copies of Cubase on the Atari ST because they didn't work as they should.. but as soon as versions without dongles appeared on other platforms they were cracked completely in an instant.
if you use the hardware dongle for "proof of purchase" - just need to patch the check to the serial port:) but, a more reliable method would be to actually have program code *inside* the dongle that is downloaded at runtime to the memory space of the machine and is vital for the execution of the program:) that's a bit harder to "crack" - but, not impossible.. application needs more modification *g*
Software wants to be free. You should consider giving your software away. That is the best way.
i do have free software:) i contribute a lot to the Palm developer community both actively in discussion forums and by maintaining the resource compiler PilRC (which is GNU GPL'd). the "free software" movement is a religion:) and, like my view on most religions, i will sit back and respect their views, but, it doesn't mean i have to participate. there is a time and a place for free software - not all software should be free. but heck, something has to pay for those units i need for development purposes - they dont come so freely:) now, if manufacturers gave me free laptops, work materials, devices et al and what i need to sustain the hobby.. i would happily give the software away for free.
as a developer myself, i spent a bit of time messing around with protection schemes for applications i wrote for the Palm OS platform. i wrote a paper on it, which was made available at PalmSource 2000 and is available here. i enjoyed understanding the inner workings of how they did it - so, i documented it. however, i knew that there was no beating them - the question remained.. how long would it take for them to crack it? does it give me some selling breathing space? (more time = more sales):P
its the contract for the use of software - this is where something like this should be stated.:) the user must accept the license before using the software - however, when a computer is provided pre-installed with software, it makes you wonder if users really do have a choice.
Slashdot Mirror
// f*ck you palm :P - get around that darn limitation
:)
you dont want to know how many times i have that comment in our code. its amazing how pissed you get when you find out the environment your programming for has limitations you would never expect
- Ooh! Lemmings on Palm!
lemmingsYour stuff looks pretty sweet for the Palm.
- So how's it working out for you? Are you making enough to pay your bills? It's just I like stories from people who've taken a risk on stuff like this, and I'm just wondering how you're finding it. I'm sure a lot of other people round here would be interested too.
well, we dont do it fulltimei got into this stuff a few years ago, and, always maintained a fulltime occupation doing something
as for doing it full time.. well - it all depends on how much you want to live on. these days, times are changing; if you want to sell, you gotta advertise.. the market is being saturated, so, its a dog-eat-dog world, unless your well known.
but still, plenty of opportunity out there!
in today's times - you are better of setting up an 'at-home' development studio, and, write software for sale online. you may end up pulling in anything; doesn't really matter how much. first, you do something you like (maybe, program games)? and, you will own everything. you never know where you may end up in a few months.
ps: i did this myself, targetting PalmOS devices - and, i have never looked back!
> I checked how long he's on every month, an average about 250 hrs every month
:) mobile everquest!
with everquest now on the pocket pc - he'll be able to clock that record i bet
> but as of yet the build chain hasn't been release.
wrong.
prc-tools 2.2 was released a few weeks back, it has an arm compiler included in the distribution. the 'mainstream' compiler (codewarrior) has arm support as of release 9; and, has been mentioned publically in developer forums and is currently in beta testing (some developers have that luxury). i also posted arm-gcc building instructions to my website on August 05, 2002. so, its not "impossible" to build stuff - if you are a developer, and, you have the desire to program armlets; you have had a chance to do this for months. its not news; palmsource showed arm units at PalmSource 2002 in february.
palm doesn't have an "internal" file system. everything is stored as a resource or record database. the data chunk is limited to 64k. there are API's available that allow filestreaming, which, pretty much do 'internal management' of your data in 4k record chunks :) a good programmer would support filestreaming .pdb files - i have written a number of utilities to convert from a normal file -> .pdb filestreaming.
PceNativeCall()
you might want to check your documentation again. we have successfully written a number of native ARM code chunks in our palmos applications.
You have not read the article. Nobody is asking you to give away the source code for free, but to include it with the binary. If I pay for something you spend 400 hours writing, I want the source to that as well. The source is part of the product.
i think you miss a simple point. first, a product is not the tools, sources, binaries. its what we choose to sell. that may, in many cases be the binary itself. we set a price on that.
now, being open about this, if i was to take my product, and, then say the source will be bundled with it - would you still be interested if i raised the price? lets say i make the cost with source 20x the price of the product without source. i would definately consider that, but, not release full source code for practically nothing.
bet they do the same thing to their servers :) they'll consider the /. effect their second DoS in a few days *g*
as a palmos developer - this is not entirely true.
palmos 5.0 replicates palmos 4.1 and a few extra API's. they have developed a layer called PACE which allows emulation/transition of m68k on an ARM CPU. there are mechanisms for new API's (improved sound, hi-res etc) but - as a developer - you can also write "armlets" (i know, i have done it) which take advantage of the ARM cpu directly without emulation. it has become common discussion to write decoders, compression, encryption etc code within an armlet; things that have previously been hindered due to "limited" processing power.
palmos 6 is rumored to be a native ARM development platform. but, where palm and its beOS engineers go on that - is just speculation until it happens.
these images were leaked from within Palm, the etched out area is actually a serial number (which, they put prominantly on seeding units). people at Palm are not happy - this leak was internal; someone is going to lose their job. from discussions i have had with Palm personnel - they already know who did it.. so much for a severance package *g*
i went to school with this guy :)
:) overall a great guy - met him in march this year back in perth (australia). nice to see someone finally recognises some of his talent.
one hell of a smart guy; although strange at times (not at all bad). married to tiki swain - also another "unfound" talent. many would not see him as a "computer nerd" *g* - he is short, thin, hates working, hates wearing shoes - and, likes to live in the "wild". mcdonalds, coke, all other commercial stuff just isn't his cue - he prefers finding food in the wild
kudo's dion!
- And what about the ethics of changing history?
just set the dial to before when this law has been passed and kill the people responsible for making the lawThere would be government laws to control time travel, he believes.
- This child (presuming it survives) is nothing more than a guinea pig for Dr. Antinori's ego. Will this child be able to live a normal life? No. Look at Dolly -- how many tests do you think she goes through on a daily basis?
do you think dolly is happy? doesn't matter if it is human or sheep or dog.. animal rights activists will be on your case forever.the family involved surely much know the risks of doing such experiments - will they be prepared to terminate the child if it is deformed, and, would it pass as murder? thats where governments are really worried about such things.
it makes me sick when governments try and get in the way to oppose research like this. it should however, be done with caution. we wouldn't want to see genetically engineered porn stars with 20" penises now would we (women, please refrain from commenting) :P
Doc_Field.field = an element within a structure, as defined in C using something like this:
struct
{
FieldType field;
};
what the...? the headers look like C to me :) C++ is bloated and clumsy on palm - and, up until recently was very difficult to write on the Palm due to its limitations. my programs are C - there is no "object orientated" libraries.. just a bunch of header files with good old system trap level catches.
www.ardiri.com = our palm development site.
when you visit, you'll see why we didn't use java at such a level :) i explored the kvm back in 1999 when the palm v was given out cheaply with the kvm installed (at javaone). it just didn't have the balls to do what i wanted - so, i dug up the gcc compiler for palm (and, eventually ended up maintaining pilrc - the resource compiler).
as for the java projects and what i do with java, i primarially use it for server side solutions these days and the occasional quick and dirty ui (heck, i aint gonna use VC++ in win32) when coding some interactive applications. bottom line is that without the CPU power, java on pda's isn't worth the effort. j2me is also too simple for doing anything real :) [esp from gaming point, no direct frame access]
native compilers are the way to go, but, they have been few and far between - either massively out of date, or, not enough development push behind them to make it worth while [a few sdk releases behind or lacking many major system level features]. java is nice, but, like many other things in life - it has its time and place :) [<pun>long live c!!</pun>] - soon, it'll be worth it - it just hasn't been up to this point in time :)
now, one needs to ask - "can this same technology be used to break codes/algorithms used within security?" the article is a bit lacking in details of how they achieved this exactly, but, koas theory is in action here.
i am a Java programmer myself, been doing so since mid 1995 (heck, remember the 1.0 beta) :P but, i have spent most of my development on the palm using C, and, where necessary for speed - resorting to native m68k assembly routiens. it just isn't possible to do something "impressive" with the Java engines are they are now - unfortunately :) but, it all depends on what you need it for.
there are great advantages of using an offline sync process. you can sync in the morning, and, read the news/pages etc while you travel to work. mobile internet connectivity isn't free - unless, like you had in your position wireless access using your own router. if i was behind my own router, i would probably use my PC to read webpages than my PDA. if i was on a bus, the PDA might become more useful for doing such tasks.
- The only protections I know of that indeed have given "breathing space" involved hardware dongles. No one used pirated copies of Cubase on the Atari ST because they didn't work as they should
.. but as soon as versions without dongles appeared on other platforms they were cracked completely in an instant.
if you use the hardware dongle for "proof of purchase" - just need to patch the check to the serial port- Software wants to be free. You should consider giving your software away. That is the best way.
i do have free softwareas a developer myself, i spent a bit of time messing around with protection schemes for applications i wrote for the Palm OS platform. i wrote a paper on it, which was made available at PalmSource 2000 and is available here. i enjoyed understanding the inner workings of how they did it - so, i documented it. however, i knew that there was no beating them - the question remained.. how long would it take for them to crack it? does it give me some selling breathing space? (more time = more sales) :P
its the contract for the use of software - this is where something like this should be stated. :) the user must accept the license before using the software - however, when a computer is provided pre-installed with software, it makes you wonder if users really do have a choice.
heh.. i just found the episode on morpheus.. its called "Rabbit Fire". :P man.. so good to watch these cartoons again.