There is nothing that states that non-profit organizations cannot pay their employees competitive wages to get the cream of the crop.
I have friends at World Bank and the IMF who get paid way more than they would working in the industry, because these organizations want the really smart and capable candidates, and it is inevitable that you pay well to attract and retain them.
And judging by the stupidity of your argument and the quality of your language and communication skills, I have to ask -- are you twelve?
Please. As an "erstwhile techie" who downloaded Slackware on a 28.8k modem, I tried using the Linux on the desktop recently, and sorely missed the usability that I've gotten accustomed to on both Windows and my Mac.
Yes, I realize that some problems, like hardware drivers, are the fault of vendors, but it does not matter to the end user. The fact of the matter is, it is inconvenient to the end user.
I like plug and play. I like being able to get a new wireless printer/scanner and have it integrate seamlessly without having to worry about stupid things. I like being able to hook up my new DSLR and have it work, without having to futz with random settings. Hell, even getting my iPhone synced was such a pain that I gave up.
At the end of the day, if I've to spend more than 10 minutes in getting a new piece of hardware (or software, for that matter) to work, my productivity has been impacted.
Linux is great as a backend -- but as a desktop? It's for people whose time is not money.
I'm curious about your statement, because as an Indian who *is* on an H1B (and with several friends who are on H1Bs), I'm not aware of these "wages and conditions" that you speak of.
Quite honestly, most of my friends and colleagues who are on H1Bs -- Indians, Ukranians, Russians, Spanish, Chinese, or even Canadians -- make well into the six figures, and they've under no duress to work in poor conditions.
I realize that this is anecdotal, but in my experience, I'm yet to come across someone accepting the poor wages and conditions that you talk about.
But I will not let facts deter you from your prejudice.
Well, it's more about the opportunities than anything else.
Many of the top tier firms (particularly in certain industries like management consulting or high finance) will not hire from regular colleges, unless you are a rock star. In which case, it isn't the college that does it anyway, it is the individual.
You go to a top school, you work at a top firm, you get admitted into a top school for your MBA, you get into an executive position. Having a pedigree just makes it a lot easier, that is all.
This is just as true for other areas such as law or medicine - and less so in the sciences or engineering.
You'd also be surprised at the amount of general opportunities that come your way at a top school, giving you way more avenues to succeed in life. For instance, just a couple of weeks ago, Harvard had the Masquerade Ball, where students and alumni from Harvard came together - what do you think happens at such events? Networking and schmoozing.
SGU was shit. The original Stargate SG-1 and Stargate Atlantis had a lot of potential. Even Continuum and Ark of Truth was badass. SGU? To say that it was utter crap would be an understatement.
Why would you create an entire universe with a great following and completely tear it down, only to be replaced with something subpar at best?
Good riddance, I say. At least now, maybe they'll bring back the original series, which had a way better story line, cast, and cinematography.
I do not know what target demographic this is from, but just the other day, I was observing the iPhones:Blackberry ratio in a meeting.
It was an exec meeting, and pretty much only two people had Blackberries -- an ibanker dude and a consultant chick. Pretty much everyone had an iPhone, and most had the latest version even.
What are you talking about? I used to work at LANL, and if anything, it's the opposite - there are more chances and opportunities for women than there are for men. Of course, the disparity in the numbers comes from the fact that there *is* a fundamental disparity in the number of men and women in science and engineering to begin with, but that's not LANL's fault.
And besides, salaries at organizations like LANL are pretty fixed depending on your education, level etc. So, if you're qualified, you get X. Nothing to do with if you're an immigrant or not (your security clearance may depend on your current/past immigrant status, limiting what you work on - but that's besides the point).
I'm curious to see that you automatically assumed that I was a "fortunate son" just because you disagree with what I've to say. For the record, I worked throughout my undergrad and paid for it all on my own (yeah, try doing an undergraduate degree in engineering while working 50 hour weeks). And I had full graduate sponsorship for grad school, and just had $3,000 in credit card debt when I graduated. If anything, as a first generation immigrant, I was at a financial disadvantage. But that only made me watch what little money I had closely. And my parents were wise enough to save enough for their old age and live comfortably -- and I've not had to borrow a single penny from them. If anything, I ensure that their needs are taken care of to help them live comfortably in their old age. But hey, whatever.
Your point about homes is bunk. I live in Boston (which is not a cheap city by any means), and you can get a great home in the suburbs or a good condo for about $200,000. If you make $100,000 a year, you can easily save about $2,000 a month (assuming you live frugally) -- and if you invested merely in TIPS bonds and savings, you would have enough money in less than 10 years time. 100% cash.
In fact, we looked at a 3 BR single family home not too far from the beach in Marblehead, one of the nicest neighborhoods in Boston, for about $180,000. There are single family homes available in decent neighborhoods for as low as $140,000. Even if you saved $1,000 a year, you can buy such a place in about 10 years, in full cash.
And I'm fortunate enough to be married to a woman who was smart enough to join the military that pays for her education at a top school. With both her parents employed at Walmart of all places (that should tell you how much they earn), she worked hard to get into the very best school in the country - with full financial aid.
But oh wait. We all want to live beyond our means. Don't get me wrong - I've my weaknesses too, but that does not mean I do not try to be frugal. And while I make decent money, it is because I bust my ass working 80-100 hour weeks. Go ahead, though, with those ad hominem attacks on me and my great fortune.
Well said. I strongly recommend watching Maxed Out -- great documentary on the current state of debt in the US.
One of the points made by the movie is that credit card companies love folks who've already filed for bankruptcy for two reasons -- one, they cannot file for it again; two, they have learned the hard way that they cannot live beyond their means.
That said, I think that credit cards and debts are just easy traps. Unless you've had a good reason (to your point, medical expenses for example), you should be held accountable for your debt. Hell, they had debtor's prison not too long ago. Arguably, sending someone to prison would not be particularly useful since it works against your ability to pay back (plus, it creates a deterrent, which I suppose would work against what the credit card companies want -- pay back and get in debt again).
I'd say that at any point in your life, you shouldn't have more than 5% of your annual income in debt. You don't need that brand new car -- you can buy something affordable, and pay cash. I know buying a home is the "American dream", but how about saving up for it, managing your finances well and buying something you can afford? Or -- strange as this may sound -- renting one for life because you do not make enough to buy one. No one is entitled to anything.
Here's a simple trick I use when I am tempted to spend money - I just buy stocks instead. So, if I see a nice jacket that I like that costs $200, I just buy stocks for $200 instead. So, now I'm out of my discretionary spending, and I just invested more money. Happiness all around.
Well, look at the bright side. If you bring in the Hindu pantheon, the trident is the weapon of choice of Shiva, the fantawesome god of destruction and assorted goodness.
Exactly. I was just about to mod you up when I noticed the following quote below the page --
No discipline is ever requisite to force attendance upon lectures which are really worth the attending. -- Adam Smith, "The Wealth of Nations"
The problem is, many people equate college with *any* college, rather than *good* college. Because like it or not, pedigree goes a long way (both in terms of the degree earned and the school it's earned from).
which is pretty dense compared to a lot of urban neighborhoods in the US, but is still quite livable.
Exactly, and the US has incredible amounts of open space compared to most countries (with the exception of perhaps Canada, Russia, and perhaps a few others). Elsewhere in the world, land and space is at a premium.
In fact, outside of the US, I've not really seen the concept of "suburbia" as being prevalent. Sure, you've residential neighborhoods - but they are just that, neighborhoods sprinkled around the city itself.
Not all of the world is fortunate enough to have such huge swathes of land available. And a lot of civilizations, especially the older ones, grew up clustered around ports and rivers, with limited options for growth anywhere but vertical.
And to the grandparent -- if you've just 100k, you should perhaps call it a large village or a small town. I'd think that you'd at the very minimum need a few million to be called a "city". After all, Rome had more than a million people over two thousand years ago.;)
While I'm happy for you, I've to ask - where did your friends go to school, and what did they major in?
Because cliched as it sounds, pedigree - both in your major and your school - matters a lot. I work in consulting, and some of the top tier firms will not even look at you unless you graduated from one of a handful number of "preferred" schools or had something really outstanding or remarkable in your resume. Even in the latter case, even for the middle tier firms, you'd better have a bachelor's degree from a half-decent school at the very least.
I cannot speak for programming as a career. However, in my industry, even if you started out at the very bottom, you'd be making at least 50k more in 5 years if you were good at your job. The prospect of bigger rewards comes in the higher you go - however, the possibility of finding someone with an unremarkable educational background at that level become slimmer. While most of it may be because of the "good old boy" effect, it is unfortunately becoming rather inevitable (sometimes to the detriment of some very capable folks with unremarkable backgrounds).
With the exception of entrepreneurs, most top execs tend to share similar pedigrees, as well. Hell, even in the case of the more successful entrepreneurs, they already had a good background to begin with (in addition to their stellar ideas).
So, at the end of the day, the question is how much do you want to make, and where do you want to be when you're 50? Because getting up there without education is nigh-impossible, particularly these days.
Well, it would depend on what kind of books (and readers) you're talking about, right?
Your average reader of Clive Cussler and Twilight probably wouldn't care - and may even enjoy it. For them, reading is probably like watching TV or something. On the other hand, folks who read something a little substantial would probably care. A lot.
I can almost see someone advertising Glenn Beck and Palin to a Chomsky or Satre reader.
That is badass! I wish something like this could be done with the MacBook Air. I'm in love with mine - unfortunately, Apple hasn't updated it in forever. If there was a service out there to help folks with MBAs, I'm sure there would be a long line of people.
Heck, I'm even willing to shell out 5k for a powerful MBA, but oh well.
I look at it differently. As the Slashdot readers have become older and moved on, so has the content. Sure, Slashdot still covers the uber geeky tech stuff, it also covers a broader variety of topics. Which is rather welcome, I must say.
You've essentially described one of the fundamental problems with public goods -- if it's provided for the benefit of all, how do you avoid free-riders?
By embracing the concept of a public good you reject the concept of a free rider. It's either/or, (that's twice in two separate topics I've used that term now...), if you try filter out free riders, you aren't providing a public service for the benefit of all.
You're missing the implicit assumption that a public good needs to be paid for by the community, and a free-rider's actions are detrimental to the community. Hence, filtering out a free-rider is perfectly acceptable since quite obviously they do not have the society's best interest in mind.
We decided to reject the idea of free riders with certain taxpayer based services such as fire protection. When your house is on fire nobody questions you about whether you deserve to have your fire put out, your application for having a fire put out isn't processed by adjusters trying to find ways to avoid providing services. Except in Obion County. The real tragedy is not the homeowner that didn't pay the fire department fee and received no help from the fire department that stood idly by while his house burned down, because this guy is obviously a freeloader. The real tragedy is that people think this sort of system is acceptable, that we've gone back to a system where people's houses can burn down and most people are callously indifferent because the guy should have paid his fees.
I don't think the system is necessarily acceptable - however, I do think that given that this is the system, this guy made his choice. He wagered and he lost. That is one of the best parts of taxation - in its absence, you get alternatives such as this. A libertarian wet-dream I am sure.
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There is nothing that states that non-profit organizations cannot pay their employees competitive wages to get the cream of the crop.
I have friends at World Bank and the IMF who get paid way more than they would working in the industry, because these organizations want the really smart and capable candidates, and it is inevitable that you pay well to attract and retain them.
And judging by the stupidity of your argument and the quality of your language and communication skills, I have to ask -- are you twelve?
This may seem like news to you, but not all of us hate Wall Street. Some of us positively support it and what it represents (shocking, I know).
Please. As an "erstwhile techie" who downloaded Slackware on a 28.8k modem, I tried using the Linux on the desktop recently, and sorely missed the usability that I've gotten accustomed to on both Windows and my Mac.
Yes, I realize that some problems, like hardware drivers, are the fault of vendors, but it does not matter to the end user. The fact of the matter is, it is inconvenient to the end user.
I like plug and play. I like being able to get a new wireless printer/scanner and have it integrate seamlessly without having to worry about stupid things. I like being able to hook up my new DSLR and have it work, without having to futz with random settings. Hell, even getting my iPhone synced was such a pain that I gave up.
At the end of the day, if I've to spend more than 10 minutes in getting a new piece of hardware (or software, for that matter) to work, my productivity has been impacted.
Linux is great as a backend -- but as a desktop? It's for people whose time is not money.
I'm curious about your statement, because as an Indian who *is* on an H1B (and with several friends who are on H1Bs), I'm not aware of these "wages and conditions" that you speak of.
Quite honestly, most of my friends and colleagues who are on H1Bs -- Indians, Ukranians, Russians, Spanish, Chinese, or even Canadians -- make well into the six figures, and they've under no duress to work in poor conditions.
I realize that this is anecdotal, but in my experience, I'm yet to come across someone accepting the poor wages and conditions that you talk about.
But I will not let facts deter you from your prejudice.
Well, it's more about the opportunities than anything else.
Many of the top tier firms (particularly in certain industries like management consulting or high finance) will not hire from regular colleges, unless you are a rock star. In which case, it isn't the college that does it anyway, it is the individual.
You go to a top school, you work at a top firm, you get admitted into a top school for your MBA, you get into an executive position. Having a pedigree just makes it a lot easier, that is all.
This is just as true for other areas such as law or medicine - and less so in the sciences or engineering.
You'd also be surprised at the amount of general opportunities that come your way at a top school, giving you way more avenues to succeed in life. For instance, just a couple of weeks ago, Harvard had the Masquerade Ball, where students and alumni from Harvard came together - what do you think happens at such events? Networking and schmoozing.
SGU was shit. The original Stargate SG-1 and Stargate Atlantis had a lot of potential. Even Continuum and Ark of Truth was badass. SGU? To say that it was utter crap would be an understatement.
Why would you create an entire universe with a great following and completely tear it down, only to be replaced with something subpar at best?
Good riddance, I say. At least now, maybe they'll bring back the original series, which had a way better story line, cast, and cinematography.
I believe OP was talking about the others outside of the 30-35 age group.
Are you saying that your wife has a good chance of also being a felon or that she lives in a place full of 'em? Either way, it can't be good.
I do not know what target demographic this is from, but just the other day, I was observing the iPhones:Blackberry ratio in a meeting.
It was an exec meeting, and pretty much only two people had Blackberries -- an ibanker dude and a consultant chick. Pretty much everyone had an iPhone, and most had the latest version even.
You're an idiot. In case you missed it...
What are you talking about? I used to work at LANL, and if anything, it's the opposite - there are more chances and opportunities for women than there are for men. Of course, the disparity in the numbers comes from the fact that there *is* a fundamental disparity in the number of men and women in science and engineering to begin with, but that's not LANL's fault.
And besides, salaries at organizations like LANL are pretty fixed depending on your education, level etc. So, if you're qualified, you get X. Nothing to do with if you're an immigrant or not (your security clearance may depend on your current/past immigrant status, limiting what you work on - but that's besides the point).
I'm curious to see that you automatically assumed that I was a "fortunate son" just because you disagree with what I've to say. For the record, I worked throughout my undergrad and paid for it all on my own (yeah, try doing an undergraduate degree in engineering while working 50 hour weeks). And I had full graduate sponsorship for grad school, and just had $3,000 in credit card debt when I graduated. If anything, as a first generation immigrant, I was at a financial disadvantage. But that only made me watch what little money I had closely. And my parents were wise enough to save enough for their old age and live comfortably -- and I've not had to borrow a single penny from them. If anything, I ensure that their needs are taken care of to help them live comfortably in their old age. But hey, whatever.
Your point about homes is bunk. I live in Boston (which is not a cheap city by any means), and you can get a great home in the suburbs or a good condo for about $200,000. If you make $100,000 a year, you can easily save about $2,000 a month (assuming you live frugally) -- and if you invested merely in TIPS bonds and savings, you would have enough money in less than 10 years time. 100% cash.
In fact, we looked at a 3 BR single family home not too far from the beach in Marblehead, one of the nicest neighborhoods in Boston, for about $180,000. There are single family homes available in decent neighborhoods for as low as $140,000. Even if you saved $1,000 a year, you can buy such a place in about 10 years, in full cash.
And I'm fortunate enough to be married to a woman who was smart enough to join the military that pays for her education at a top school. With both her parents employed at Walmart of all places (that should tell you how much they earn), she worked hard to get into the very best school in the country - with full financial aid.
But oh wait. We all want to live beyond our means. Don't get me wrong - I've my weaknesses too, but that does not mean I do not try to be frugal. And while I make decent money, it is because I bust my ass working 80-100 hour weeks. Go ahead, though, with those ad hominem attacks on me and my great fortune.
Well said. I strongly recommend watching Maxed Out -- great documentary on the current state of debt in the US.
One of the points made by the movie is that credit card companies love folks who've already filed for bankruptcy for two reasons -- one, they cannot file for it again; two, they have learned the hard way that they cannot live beyond their means.
That said, I think that credit cards and debts are just easy traps. Unless you've had a good reason (to your point, medical expenses for example), you should be held accountable for your debt. Hell, they had debtor's prison not too long ago. Arguably, sending someone to prison would not be particularly useful since it works against your ability to pay back (plus, it creates a deterrent, which I suppose would work against what the credit card companies want -- pay back and get in debt again).
I'd say that at any point in your life, you shouldn't have more than 5% of your annual income in debt. You don't need that brand new car -- you can buy something affordable, and pay cash. I know buying a home is the "American dream", but how about saving up for it, managing your finances well and buying something you can afford? Or -- strange as this may sound -- renting one for life because you do not make enough to buy one. No one is entitled to anything.
Here's a simple trick I use when I am tempted to spend money - I just buy stocks instead. So, if I see a nice jacket that I like that costs $200, I just buy stocks for $200 instead. So, now I'm out of my discretionary spending, and I just invested more money. Happiness all around.
Well, look at the bright side. If you bring in the Hindu pantheon, the trident is the weapon of choice of Shiva, the fantawesome god of destruction and assorted goodness.
Exactly. I was just about to mod you up when I noticed the following quote below the page --
No discipline is ever requisite to force attendance upon lectures which are really worth the attending. -- Adam Smith, "The Wealth of Nations"
The problem is, many people equate college with *any* college, rather than *good* college. Because like it or not, pedigree goes a long way (both in terms of the degree earned and the school it's earned from).
I was being tongue in cheek. I guess the smiley didn't give it away.
Exactly, and the US has incredible amounts of open space compared to most countries (with the exception of perhaps Canada, Russia, and perhaps a few others). Elsewhere in the world, land and space is at a premium.
In fact, outside of the US, I've not really seen the concept of "suburbia" as being prevalent. Sure, you've residential neighborhoods - but they are just that, neighborhoods sprinkled around the city itself.
Not all of the world is fortunate enough to have such huge swathes of land available. And a lot of civilizations, especially the older ones, grew up clustered around ports and rivers, with limited options for growth anywhere but vertical.
And to the grandparent -- if you've just 100k, you should perhaps call it a large village or a small town. I'd think that you'd at the very minimum need a few million to be called a "city". After all, Rome had more than a million people over two thousand years ago. ;)
While I'm happy for you, I've to ask - where did your friends go to school, and what did they major in?
Because cliched as it sounds, pedigree - both in your major and your school - matters a lot. I work in consulting, and some of the top tier firms will not even look at you unless you graduated from one of a handful number of "preferred" schools or had something really outstanding or remarkable in your resume. Even in the latter case, even for the middle tier firms, you'd better have a bachelor's degree from a half-decent school at the very least.
I cannot speak for programming as a career. However, in my industry, even if you started out at the very bottom, you'd be making at least 50k more in 5 years if you were good at your job. The prospect of bigger rewards comes in the higher you go - however, the possibility of finding someone with an unremarkable educational background at that level become slimmer. While most of it may be because of the "good old boy" effect, it is unfortunately becoming rather inevitable (sometimes to the detriment of some very capable folks with unremarkable backgrounds).
With the exception of entrepreneurs, most top execs tend to share similar pedigrees, as well. Hell, even in the case of the more successful entrepreneurs, they already had a good background to begin with (in addition to their stellar ideas).
So, at the end of the day, the question is how much do you want to make, and where do you want to be when you're 50? Because getting up there without education is nigh-impossible, particularly these days.
Sure. Ask your Mom.
Well, it would depend on what kind of books (and readers) you're talking about, right?
Your average reader of Clive Cussler and Twilight probably wouldn't care - and may even enjoy it. For them, reading is probably like watching TV or something. On the other hand, folks who read something a little substantial would probably care. A lot.
I can almost see someone advertising Glenn Beck and Palin to a Chomsky or Satre reader.
That is badass! I wish something like this could be done with the MacBook Air. I'm in love with mine - unfortunately, Apple hasn't updated it in forever. If there was a service out there to help folks with MBAs, I'm sure there would be a long line of people.
Heck, I'm even willing to shell out 5k for a powerful MBA, but oh well.
Really! I'd thought that chess originated in India and spread to Persia and the Middle East, where it evolved. But hey... whatever.
I look at it differently. As the Slashdot readers have become older and moved on, so has the content. Sure, Slashdot still covers the uber geeky tech stuff, it also covers a broader variety of topics. Which is rather welcome, I must say.
Well, hey. Good luck trying to be reasonable and not bigoted. Who'da thunk that Slashdot had its share of racist religious nuts?
You're missing the implicit assumption that a public good needs to be paid for by the community, and a free-rider's actions are detrimental to the community. Hence, filtering out a free-rider is perfectly acceptable since quite obviously they do not have the society's best interest in mind.
I don't think the system is necessarily acceptable - however, I do think that given that this is the system, this guy made his choice. He wagered and he lost. That is one of the best parts of taxation - in its absence, you get alternatives such as this. A libertarian wet-dream I am sure.