I have read that, but that's from Owen Taylor. Owen is a brilliant hacker, but the problem with using that essay as a source for the KDE view of the situation is that 1) he's a RH employee, and 2) he's one of the GTK+ lead developers. This pretty much disqualifies him from presenting KDE's side of the story.:-) I'm not saying he isn't being objective, etc, but I want to hear it straight from the source.
Yes, what exactly is the issue? I'm running the RH8 betas, and while I'm a GNOME user, and thus inherantly biased, I honestly can't see the big difference.
Can anyone point me to a canonical listing of precisely what the KDE people are so upset about? Most of the objections I've seen seem silly, but I don't want to dismiss the issue without feeling I'm fully informed on it.
Depends on whether you pronounce the "guh" and the "slash." "Noo Lih-nucks" isn't too bad, but it's ambiguous. People think you're saying "New Linux," which confuses the mundanes.
right... which is exactly what I said in my last paragraph.;-)
Incidentally, Ogg Vorbis' name is not THAT bad. I just shorten it to "Vorbis" since Ogg is the umbrella project and wrapper format for the files, but Vorbis is the codec. Vorbis isn't a bad name, really. Not as catchy as MP3, but not bad. Better than the mushmouthed "doubleyoo emm ay" or "ay ay cee" or even mp3pro.
Since a long name such as GNU/X11/Apache/Linux/TeX/Perl/Python/FreeCiv becomes absurd, at some point, you will have to set a threshold and omit the names of the many other secondary contributions. There is no one obvious right place to set the threshold, so wherever you set it, we won't argue against it.
Well, at least they're consistant...
Still, anything more than 2-3 syllables is TOO LONG. Just the words "Linux" or "Red Hat" or "Slackware" are great, but to pronounce everything by its full name all the time would be ridiculous. I'm a Red Hat man, myself, but I never call it "Red Hat GNU/Linux" - that's would be silly. I just call it "Red Hat" - the "(GNU/)Linux" part is implied. This is really frustrating for me, because I think the GNU guys really *are* the progenitor here, and deserve equal credit to the kernel, IMHO. But on the other hand, calling it GNU/Linux is so goddamn cacophonous. People think Ogg Vorbis has a bad sounding name? GNU/Linux is 10x worse! Sadly, this leaves me just calling it "Linux", despite the fact that I think the GNU guys should be getting a piece of the credit, too. Ah, well.
Maybe it wouldn't be so hard if we didn't have to pronounce the fscking hard "G" in GNU... "noo lih-nucks" wouldn't be nearly so bad as "GuhNoo lih-nucks". Of course THEN, we'd have problems with people thinking we meant "*New*/Linux" and they'd think this was some different fork or something. Grrr!
I've been seeing people say 'this is the last step' or similar things, about some type of 'outlook killer' app for Linux. It won't be the last step.
You're right, it won't be. It's all a matter of covering certain pieces of the market. Getting a usable desktop with a nice office suite, including the big 3, a word processor, spreadsheet, and integrated email/PIM, was the first step. GNOME 2 with Evolution + OpenOffice does this.* This gets us a sizable chunk of users right there. Then we get, say, a native port of Photoshop. There's another huge chunk of people whose needs are now met, etc, etc. For every new clone app or ported app (or every new thing that Crossover Office supports!), we get another chunk of users. Slowly, we chip and grind away at the Windows userbase. It's all a matter of going in steps - no one app will gather up all users.
* One could say there are various KDE solutions that do this, too, but I think GNOME 2's usability is superior, but I'm also more familiar with it - I'm not going to comment on KDE programs much because I don't know them well.
Connector only applies to hooking into *Exchange*. It won't apply to Kroupware.
Re:Ogg Vorbis support?
on
New MP3 Portables
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· Score: 3, Informative
Wow, nice troll!
While there's no dedicated Ogg chip currently, there's proably very few, if any, dedicated WMA chips out there, so immediate availability of Ogg chips isn't a make-or-break for the format.
However, as for the parent post's link to that single, outdated study, I think I trust the huge, distributed test covered by c't over one guy, thanks.
Floating-point intesive? Try again. Take a careful look at the HUGE TEXT at the very top of the page.
I'm wondering the same thing - I wouldn't be surprised if this wasn't a very customised 2.4/2.5 hybrid or some such.
What I'm more curious about is what the licensing of all this will be like... are they just doing standard kernel patching, in which case the changes might get rolled back into the vanilla kernel? I'm a little worried that they might be doing it all via binary-only modules, which means that Linux proper gets none of the changes rolled back in...:-( I'd be somewhat surprised if SGI did this, though - they seem to have been pretty damn OSS friendly. (XFS!)
Well, that first bit isn't really a "synch" program, just a converter, and it only applies to the datebook. I'd really like something that handled todo, datebook, and addressbook.... something like zesync. Which brings me to my second point...
Yeah, zesync got an "update" on the 28th of August, but that was a small compatibility fix for people running Opie. Prior to that, the last release was in June. For software that only made it to two releases, it's pretty good, but it's not "there" yet, and unfortunately, with sync software, you have to make it nearly to the end before your app as any kind of widespread value.:-P
If you read the whole thread now, the author of zesync just commented on my parent post that apparently the file format of the PIM apps is in an undocumented (undocumentable?) state of flux, and thus any author would have to stay constantly abreast of changes to the file format. Yuck. I don't blame Chayim at all for not wanting to work in zesync any longer.
Ack, that sucks. I hope you didn't get the impression that I was trying to *slam* zesync per se, but rather just pointing out that it hasn't been updated in a long while. I didn't catch the comments on Zaurus-General either, because I quit that list months ago. (I couldn't stand all the flaming, idle chatter, and same old questions - it got ridiculous.)
1) This is just another beta release - not the final version - the 1.5 beta has been out for months. (Possibly even from when the Z was first released, though I can't recall exactly)
2) (well, ok, this is more a personal reason, but...) Wake me up when it talks to Evolution......which reminds me - I'd personally throw down like $40 just to see the Z synch with Evolution. It's not going to happen from Trolltech or the Kompany for political and technical reasons (they'd rather have it talk to Aethera, I'm sure), but an independent developer could probably make some nice extra $$$ writing a stable, usable, reliable Evo Z synch suite. Here's hoping some one does this... I'm going nuts!
(yes, I'm fully aware of the project at http://sf.net/projects/zesync - but it hasn't gone anywhere in months, sadly....)
I like seeing Ecclesiastes quoted once in a while. It's an incredible work that most Western Christians (or even people who are neither Christian nor Jewish, but interested in theology) don't seem to pay nearly as much attention to as it deserves.
I couldn't agree more. I haven't been Christian for a very long time, but I have always held that particular book of the Bible in the highest regard. Talk about old school existentialism - this stuff beats Sartre by 2000 years.:-) And yet, unlike Sartre or Camus, Ecclesiastes isn't hopeless - rather a lesson in humility that is often unfortunately ignored. While most religions could really use a good reading of Ecclesiastes, I find it sad that most Christians themselves have very little, if any knowledge, of that particular book. My respect goes out to any priests/pastors/reverends/etc that manages to even halfway-successfully preach a sermon on Ecclesiastical wisdom in a modern Christian church.
That said, I have to give you points for your objectivity and fairness, despite disagreeing with them - if only members of Congress had that much integrity...
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I have read that, but that's from Owen Taylor. Owen is a brilliant hacker, but the problem with using that essay as a source for the KDE view of the situation is that 1) he's a RH employee, and 2) he's one of the GTK+ lead developers. This pretty much disqualifies him from presenting KDE's side of the story. :-) I'm not saying he isn't being objective, etc, but I want to hear it straight from the source.
Yes, what exactly is the issue? I'm running the RH8 betas, and while I'm a GNOME user, and thus inherantly biased, I honestly can't see the big difference.
Can anyone point me to a canonical listing of precisely what the KDE people are so upset about? Most of the objections I've seen seem silly, but I don't want to dismiss the issue without feeling I'm fully informed on it.
Got it, thanks!
Speaking of which, did anyone manage to actually grab the PDF of this before their server got utterly nuked by /. ?
Depends on whether you pronounce the "guh" and the "slash." "Noo Lih-nucks" isn't too bad, but it's ambiguous. People think you're saying "New Linux," which confuses the mundanes.
;-)
right... which is exactly what I said in my last paragraph.
Incidentally, Ogg Vorbis' name is not THAT bad. I just shorten it to "Vorbis" since Ogg is the umbrella project and wrapper format for the files, but Vorbis is the codec. Vorbis isn't a bad name, really. Not as catchy as MP3, but not bad. Better than the mushmouthed "doubleyoo emm ay" or "ay ay cee" or even mp3pro.
From the faq:
Since a long name such as GNU/X11/Apache/Linux/TeX/Perl/Python/FreeCiv becomes absurd, at some point, you will have to set a threshold and omit the names of the many other secondary contributions. There is no one obvious right place to set the threshold, so wherever you set it, we won't argue against it.
Well, at least they're consistant...
Still, anything more than 2-3 syllables is TOO LONG. Just the words "Linux" or "Red Hat" or "Slackware" are great, but to pronounce everything by its full name all the time would be ridiculous. I'm a Red Hat man, myself, but I never call it "Red Hat GNU/Linux" - that's would be silly. I just call it "Red Hat" - the "(GNU/)Linux" part is implied. This is really frustrating for me, because I think the GNU guys really *are* the progenitor here, and deserve equal credit to the kernel, IMHO. But on the other hand, calling it GNU/Linux is so goddamn cacophonous. People think Ogg Vorbis has a bad sounding name? GNU/Linux is 10x worse! Sadly, this leaves me just calling it "Linux", despite the fact that I think the GNU guys should be getting a piece of the credit, too. Ah, well.
Maybe it wouldn't be so hard if we didn't have to pronounce the fscking hard "G" in GNU... "noo lih-nucks" wouldn't be nearly so bad as "GuhNoo lih-nucks". Of course THEN, we'd have problems with people thinking we meant "*New*/Linux" and they'd think this was some different fork or something. Grrr!
Where does it say that KDE will even work with Exchange?? I thought the idea was getting *rid* of it, so there's no need to build in support for it.
Exactly. This illustrates my point perfectly. :-)
I've been seeing people say 'this is the last step' or similar things, about some type of 'outlook killer' app for Linux. It won't be the last step.
You're right, it won't be. It's all a matter of covering certain pieces of the market. Getting a usable desktop with a nice office suite, including the big 3, a word processor, spreadsheet, and integrated email/PIM, was the first step. GNOME 2 with Evolution + OpenOffice does this.* This gets us a sizable chunk of users right there. Then we get, say, a native port of Photoshop. There's another huge chunk of people whose needs are now met, etc, etc. For every new clone app or ported app (or every new thing that Crossover Office supports!), we get another chunk of users. Slowly, we chip and grind away at the Windows userbase. It's all a matter of going in steps - no one app will gather up all users.
* One could say there are various KDE solutions that do this, too, but I think GNOME 2's usability is superior, but I'm also more familiar with it - I'm not going to comment on KDE programs much because I don't know them well.
Connector only applies to hooking into *Exchange*. It won't apply to Kroupware.
Wow, nice troll!
:P
While there's no dedicated Ogg chip currently, there's proably very few, if any, dedicated WMA chips out there, so immediate availability of Ogg chips isn't a make-or-break for the format.
However, as for the parent post's link to that single, outdated study, I think I trust the huge, distributed test covered by c't over one guy, thanks.
Floating-point intesive? Try again. Take a careful look at the HUGE TEXT at the very top of the page.
And how about those format specifications, eh?
If anything's a joke here, it's your post.
Where did you get this info? You have any links where they say they're putting S3TC into their X drivers? (I hope so... /me needs to get his UT on. :-)
ARGH! I didn't say I didn't vote, either! I *always* vote, thankyouverymuch.
I don't vote Libertarian, and this is NOT my fault. The Libertarian Party does not have a monopoly on concerns for personal freedoms.
*clap*clap*clap*
Amen, man. There's no excuse for poor writing, but emoticons are not the scourge they're made out to be by some.
I'm wondering the same thing - I wouldn't be surprised if this wasn't a very customised 2.4/2.5 hybrid or some such.
:-( I'd be somewhat surprised if SGI did this, though - they seem to have been pretty damn OSS friendly. (XFS!)
What I'm more curious about is what the licensing of all this will be like... are they just doing standard kernel patching, in which case the changes might get rolled back into the vanilla kernel? I'm a little worried that they might be doing it all via binary-only modules, which means that Linux proper gets none of the changes rolled back in...
Well, that first bit isn't really a "synch" program, just a converter, and it only applies to the datebook. I'd really like something that handled todo, datebook, and addressbook.... something like zesync. Which brings me to my second point...
:-P
Yeah, zesync got an "update" on the 28th of August, but that was a small compatibility fix for people running Opie. Prior to that, the last release was in June. For software that only made it to two releases, it's pretty good, but it's not "there" yet, and unfortunately, with sync software, you have to make it nearly to the end before your app as any kind of widespread value.
If you read the whole thread now, the author of zesync just commented on my parent post that apparently the file format of the PIM apps is in an undocumented (undocumentable?) state of flux, and thus any author would have to stay constantly abreast of changes to the file format. Yuck. I don't blame Chayim at all for not wanting to work in zesync any longer.
yes - read this whole thread more carefully for why zesync doesn't currently fit the bill.
Ack, that sucks. I hope you didn't get the impression that I was trying to *slam* zesync per se, but rather just pointing out that it hasn't been updated in a long while. I didn't catch the comments on Zaurus-General either, because I quit that list months ago. (I couldn't stand all the flaming, idle chatter, and same old questions - it got ridiculous.)
*sigh*... what a let-down. ah, well.
This isn't news for 2 reasons:
...which reminds me - I'd personally throw down like $40 just to see the Z synch with Evolution. It's not going to happen from Trolltech or the Kompany for political and technical reasons (they'd rather have it talk to Aethera, I'm sure), but an independent developer could probably make some nice extra $$$ writing a stable, usable, reliable Evo Z synch suite. Here's hoping some one does this... I'm going nuts!
1) This is just another beta release - not the final version - the 1.5 beta has been out for months. (Possibly even from when the Z was first released, though I can't recall exactly)
2) (well, ok, this is more a personal reason, but...) Wake me up when it talks to Evolution...
(yes, I'm fully aware of the project at http://sf.net/projects/zesync - but it hasn't gone anywhere in months, sadly....)
calling a left-wing nut a "pinko" is a harmelss enough jab.
;-)
A shame that more left-wing nuts like me can't just sit back and laugh at such things instead of taking everything so personally and seriously.
As for the anachronistic slang, do you wear an onion on your belt, as was the style of the time? (extra points for getting this one)
eek... irony stacked on irony. this place is just getting too weird for me.
True - but that's what .NET is for - a wholly new API without giving up a shred of the old one for years to come.
;-)
Of course, by then, Linux will have nearly reached World Domination, so the point will be moot. But still...
I like seeing Ecclesiastes quoted once in a while. It's an incredible work that most Western Christians (or even people who are neither Christian nor Jewish, but interested in theology) don't seem to pay nearly as much attention to as it deserves.
:-) And yet, unlike Sartre or Camus, Ecclesiastes isn't hopeless - rather a lesson in humility that is often unfortunately ignored. While most religions could really use a good reading of Ecclesiastes, I find it sad that most Christians themselves have very little, if any knowledge, of that particular book. My respect goes out to any priests/pastors/reverends/etc that manages to even halfway-successfully preach a sermon on Ecclesiastical wisdom in a modern Christian church.
I couldn't agree more. I haven't been Christian for a very long time, but I have always held that particular book of the Bible in the highest regard. Talk about old school existentialism - this stuff beats Sartre by 2000 years.
heheh... you said "pinko" and meant it. ;)
That said, I have to give you points for your objectivity and fairness, despite disagreeing with them - if only members of Congress had that much integrity...