Re:Time For All the Baby-Boomers to Stand Up!
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The Engine of US Jobs
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· Score: 2, Insightful
There are severeal critical flaws with your plan.
1. It smacks of amnesty so the "they're taking our jeeeeerrrrrrbbbbssss" nativists will never stand for it. 2. No, they won't go home for xmas even if they have a one year visa. 3. No matter how bad you think immigrants have it here its still better than where they came from, thats why they came here in the first place. Besides the first generation of immigrants are basically sacrificing themselves to ensure that successive generations of their families are in a better place, i.e. America so any pain they go thru is more than worth the bargain.
Its no secret Microsoft has been trying to use its consoles as a shoe-horn into the living room. That you don't know this is a testiment to how badly they are failing in that attempt.
You do realize that as soon as she's old enough to be on her own she's going to over-compensate for the lack of media by becoming the Greatest Couch Potato Known To Mankind!!!!! Don't you???
...in the long run. With the share buybacks suspended because of the investigations when that suspension is lifted the negatie news might have caused the share prices to have decreased making them cheaper for Dell to buy back and thus increasing the profit they can make when they sell them again years from now.
Its not a preposterous notion. You really can take a Mac home if its been pre-loaded with all the apps you need and get started working right after you take it out of the box and plug it in. You can of course also do the same with a PC running Windows. The point is this situation simply does not exist in the Linux world on the scale it does with Windows and Mac OS X. And no most folks don't need support with Office for either platform. Its usually already pre-installed on both OS's. What comes close in the Linux world. Lindows? Ubuntu?
Embedded devices absolutely do not count. The end user doesn't know what softawre is running on a router and more importantly no one uses a Linksys router to do research papers or balance their checkbooks. Do you really think there are more people using Linux on a personal computer to do everyday things that you would do on Windows or OS X than there are on Macs alone? I doubt it. The google trends again show nothing. Linux isn't in the ballpark of the Macintosh user community. If all the Mac users in the state of New York by itself just started googling for "Apple" "Mac" and the like they'd throw that chart all out of whack. Linux users constantly need help with their computers. Its a never ending situation. A good part of that is because they WANT IT THAT WAY. Thats how they are in the head. Have you ever been to a Linux or OSS IRC channel? There's a never ending stream of newbies coming in desperate for help and regulars who wait to snap at them "RTFM!" or "Google is your friend!" They enjoy making people feel stupid so the people leave and search the web for the only help that is available to them. No wonder Linux ranks high in search terms. Its practiacally by design. Don't forget to check out all the absolutely abandoned projects on SourceForge. So much for that "lots of eyeballs" philosophy of OSS....
Worldwide Apple has an installed base of something like 25-30 million users. There's no way Linux comes close to matching this. I myself have two Macs and a laptop running Kubuntu. I don't count myself as a Linux user however as its not my main OS nor do I spend most of my time on it. Its a tinkering box. Now if I were running Linux on my main machine and only using Wine to access Windows only apps that would be a differnet story. How many so called Linux users really use Windows or OS X more often then they're using their linux boxes? And you can't tell me all these users are running servers as how many people actually need a personal server? In any case servers don't count. Hell you could even throw in old Macs still running Mac OS 9 or less or old PCs still running Win98 and I bet those numbers are still higher than Linux's marketshare.
Sometimes I think Linux advocates get carried away with the fact that Linux can run on old hardware. So what? Who actually wants old hardware? Even third world countries are tired of getting dumped with the stuff. They're not as backwards as we think and they'd rather pirate Windows and use something usable than deal with Linux even for free. I do want to say that Linux is constantly improving but the article makes a good point in that its always playing catch up. Why didn't OSS come out with something like Aqua or Aero first? Is it even possible for OSS to leapfrog proprietary software in features that matter to end users and not just server admins? I know Linux has a much more robust file system than either NTFS or HFS+ but really, who cares?
You know you just gave me an interesting thought. The adage "Linux is only free if your time is worthless" applies here. Today most Linux/OSS users are relatively young. But as time goes on and they get older, married and start families how many will stick with Linux/OSS? Not all of them are having an easy time of it afterall. There are bound to be a sizeable amount of them who eventually say to themselves "What am I doing here? I just don't have time for this. Let me get Windows or a Mac... and get on with my life. I've got a wife and kids to spend time with. The computer is just supposed to be a tool anyway, not some sort of political revolution thats an excersize in technological masochism!" If we knew the average age of the average Linux/OSS user we could accurately predict that fall off date. Very interesting thing to ponder.
Your making a big assumption that Apple's OS X being limited to Macs is a large constraint. Most of the people who download Linux download many many distros before settling on one, which means the Linux usage numbers are grossly inflated. I doubt Linux marketshare will ever equal, let alone surpass Apple's.
I don't think those trends say much of anything. Did it ever occur to you that perhaps there's more searches for Linux because people need more help using it and getting it to just run properly? How many searches for "Macintosh" is someone with a Mac going to do if their Mac is running perfectly from the start? Just how many of those "Linux" searches are desperate newbies to Linux who are in week 3 of trying to figure out how to get wifi or wpa encryption support on their laptops or to get their monitors to run in the right resolution or to get CUPS printing working? One linux user might initiate dozens of search queries for anything linux related. A Mac user on the other hand would be searching for non-computer related stuff cause their computer is already working as it should be.
Apple is selling Macs hand over fists. The Apple Stores are always jam packed, the company is sourcing a third provider for notebooks and can't currently meet the demand they have for MacBooks and MacBookPros. The overwhelming majority of people who use Macs don't even know what UNIX is or that Mac OS X has a Unix core running underneath. Apple just doubled its laptop marketshare to 12% of the US market. Add in Apple's installed base all over the world and its pretty clear to me at least that not only are there more Mac users than Linux users but its going to stay that way for quite some time. Even if you account for the fact that it is nearly impossible to track Linux installs because Linux can be downloaded for free you should also admit that a lot of those downloads are probably never installed. I myself run Kubuntu Linux on a spare laptop and before I settled on it I downloaded at least 8 other distros. Some people download more distros some download less but the point I'm making is that only a fraction of the Linux downloads that are happening end up being actual installs. And sometimes none of them end up being permanent installs as the OS is still too rough around the edges for many users and they either go back to Windows or OS X.
Can you explain exactly how you are harmed by Earthlink's method? How does it hurt your computing experience? Why do you need an error page when an error occurs?
First of all whats with the hostility with Ubuntu being a Windows replacement? You got something against technology being accessible to regular people? Does it diminish your value as a geek when people no longer have to defer to your black magic ways?
Anyway yes Debian is stable because it doesn't integrate new stuff too often. Its also antiquated. If you want really stable you could always use Windows 3.11 for Workgroups but that would suck wouldn't it? Do you really have to wait 2 years before updating a package before you will trust it?
Your attitude concerning Debian's rate of development is one of the _core_ issues that caused Matt (and many others) to leave. It used to be funny how old th estuff in Debian stable was. Why is OpenBSD able to use modern packages yet remain stable and secure while Debian is not?
If your shipment of Kool-Aid has not yet arrived please call Apple Support and they will help you track down your shipment of Kool-Aid and if necessary order you replacements if the originals were lost. The very last thing us here at Apple Computer Support Department want is any of the public to ever have to go through Kool-Aid withdrawl.
Apple is selling more Macs than it has in over a decade. They're approaching record numbers in some spots like laptops where Macs have climbed to a 12% marketshare. They can't meet the demand and are sourcing a 3rd manufacturer to help build more. So how exactly has Apple's switch to Intel HURT them? Is your definition of hurt a special definition that really means "THE BEST THING THATS EVER HAPPENED TO THEM!"!?!?
The purpose of this program is to provide computing services to the entire school system. Its not to turn every single student in the state of Keralla into a computer science graduate. Aside from computer science and computer engineering students, virtually NO ONE ELSE needs to be exposed to 2 at most 3 operating systems, and here you are suggesting exposure to what, 8? What purpose would be served by teaching Johnny to write an essay on OpenVMS?
I'm guessing the whole point of his argument is that he shouldn't have to take any extra steps he wouldn't have to take with Windows to get hardware and software working.
If the occupation requires a high level of skill and is in great demand then the most restrictive employers will lose employees to the least restrictive employers, assuming compensation is equal.
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There are severeal critical flaws with your plan.
1. It smacks of amnesty so the "they're taking our jeeeeerrrrrrbbbbssss" nativists will never stand for it.
2. No, they won't go home for xmas even if they have a one year visa.
3. No matter how bad you think immigrants have it here its still better than where they came from, thats why they came here in the first place. Besides the first generation of immigrants are basically sacrificing themselves to ensure that successive generations of their families are in a better place, i.e. America so any pain they go thru is more than worth the bargain.
Alright you simply have to explain this one.
You'd rather give money to Microsoft over Apple.
All of Slashdot is pulling up a chair, make it a good one!
...Naive Adult" campaign would be for the following types of people:
1. Anyone who believes "evil" can apply to a corporation?
and
2. Anyone who believes a company when they say they won't be evil?
Its no secret Microsoft has been trying to use its consoles as a shoe-horn into the living room. That you don't know this is a testiment to how badly they are failing in that attempt.
No Seriously, its a MacBook Pro.
Did it ever occur to you that perhaps those kids playing their video games just weren't interested in launching rockets?
You do realize that as soon as she's old enough to be on her own she's going to over-compensate for the lack of media by becoming the Greatest Couch Potato Known To Mankind!!!!! Don't you???
If there are less money making businesses, where is the money for the charities supposed to come from?
Its real easy for a charitable organization such as Wikipedia to dictate moral terms to a money making business like Google.
Now does anyone have any rational suggestions?
...in the long run. With the share buybacks suspended because of the investigations when that suspension is lifted the negatie news might have caused the share prices to have decreased making them cheaper for Dell to buy back and thus increasing the profit they can make when they sell them again years from now.
Its not a preposterous notion. You really can take a Mac home if its been pre-loaded with all the apps you need and get started working right after you take it out of the box and plug it in. You can of course also do the same with a PC running Windows. The point is this situation simply does not exist in the Linux world on the scale it does with Windows and Mac OS X. And no most folks don't need support with Office for either platform. Its usually already pre-installed on both OS's. What comes close in the Linux world. Lindows? Ubuntu?
Embedded devices absolutely do not count. The end user doesn't know what softawre is running on a router and more importantly no one uses a Linksys router to do research papers or balance their checkbooks. Do you really think there are more people using Linux on a personal computer to do everyday things that you would do on Windows or OS X than there are on Macs alone? I doubt it. The google trends again show nothing. Linux isn't in the ballpark of the Macintosh user community. If all the Mac users in the state of New York by itself just started googling for "Apple" "Mac" and the like they'd throw that chart all out of whack. Linux users constantly need help with their computers. Its a never ending situation. A good part of that is because they WANT IT THAT WAY. Thats how they are in the head. Have you ever been to a Linux or OSS IRC channel? There's a never ending stream of newbies coming in desperate for help and regulars who wait to snap at them "RTFM!" or "Google is your friend!" They enjoy making people feel stupid so the people leave and search the web for the only help that is available to them. No wonder Linux ranks high in search terms. Its practiacally by design. Don't forget to check out all the absolutely abandoned projects on SourceForge. So much for that "lots of eyeballs" philosophy of OSS....
Worldwide Apple has an installed base of something like 25-30 million users. There's no way Linux comes close to matching this. I myself have two Macs and a laptop running Kubuntu. I don't count myself as a Linux user however as its not my main OS nor do I spend most of my time on it. Its a tinkering box. Now if I were running Linux on my main machine and only using Wine to access Windows only apps that would be a differnet story. How many so called Linux users really use Windows or OS X more often then they're using their linux boxes? And you can't tell me all these users are running servers as how many people actually need a personal server? In any case servers don't count. Hell you could even throw in old Macs still running Mac OS 9 or less or old PCs still running Win98 and I bet those numbers are still higher than Linux's marketshare.
Sometimes I think Linux advocates get carried away with the fact that Linux can run on old hardware. So what? Who actually wants old hardware? Even third world countries are tired of getting dumped with the stuff. They're not as backwards as we think and they'd rather pirate Windows and use something usable than deal with Linux even for free. I do want to say that Linux is constantly improving but the article makes a good point in that its always playing catch up. Why didn't OSS come out with something like Aqua or Aero first? Is it even possible for OSS to leapfrog proprietary software in features that matter to end users and not just server admins? I know Linux has a much more robust file system than either NTFS or HFS+ but really, who cares?
You know you just gave me an interesting thought. The adage "Linux is only free if your time is worthless" applies here. Today most Linux/OSS users are relatively young. But as time goes on and they get older, married and start families how many will stick with Linux/OSS? Not all of them are having an easy time of it afterall. There are bound to be a sizeable amount of them who eventually say to themselves "What am I doing here? I just don't have time for this. Let me get Windows or a Mac... and get on with my life. I've got a wife and kids to spend time with. The computer is just supposed to be a tool anyway, not some sort of political revolution thats an excersize in technological masochism!" If we knew the average age of the average Linux/OSS user we could accurately predict that fall off date. Very interesting thing to ponder.
Your making a big assumption that Apple's OS X being limited to Macs is a large constraint. Most of the people who download Linux download many many distros before settling on one, which means the Linux usage numbers are grossly inflated. I doubt Linux marketshare will ever equal, let alone surpass Apple's.
I don't think those trends say much of anything. Did it ever occur to you that perhaps there's more searches for Linux because people need more help using it and getting it to just run properly? How many searches for "Macintosh" is someone with a Mac going to do if their Mac is running perfectly from the start? Just how many of those "Linux" searches are desperate newbies to Linux who are in week 3 of trying to figure out how to get wifi or wpa encryption support on their laptops or to get their monitors to run in the right resolution or to get CUPS printing working? One linux user might initiate dozens of search queries for anything linux related. A Mac user on the other hand would be searching for non-computer related stuff cause their computer is already working as it should be.
Apple is selling Macs hand over fists. The Apple Stores are always jam packed, the company is sourcing a third provider for notebooks and can't currently meet the demand they have for MacBooks and MacBookPros. The overwhelming majority of people who use Macs don't even know what UNIX is or that Mac OS X has a Unix core running underneath. Apple just doubled its laptop marketshare to 12% of the US market. Add in Apple's installed base all over the world and its pretty clear to me at least that not only are there more Mac users than Linux users but its going to stay that way for quite some time. Even if you account for the fact that it is nearly impossible to track Linux installs because Linux can be downloaded for free you should also admit that a lot of those downloads are probably never installed. I myself run Kubuntu Linux on a spare laptop and before I settled on it I downloaded at least 8 other distros. Some people download more distros some download less but the point I'm making is that only a fraction of the Linux downloads that are happening end up being actual installs. And sometimes none of them end up being permanent installs as the OS is still too rough around the edges for many users and they either go back to Windows or OS X.
Yeah you still haven't explained how it hurts you though.
Its like your all saying "But this is against our highest law!" without explaining why it was made illegal in the first place.
Can you explain exactly how you are harmed by Earthlink's method? How does it hurt your computing experience? Why do you need an error page when an error occurs?
First of all whats with the hostility with Ubuntu being a Windows replacement? You got something against technology being accessible to regular people? Does it diminish your value as a geek when people no longer have to defer to your black magic ways?
Anyway yes Debian is stable because it doesn't integrate new stuff too often. Its also antiquated. If you want really stable you could always use Windows 3.11 for Workgroups but that would suck wouldn't it? Do you really have to wait 2 years before updating a package before you will trust it?
Your attitude concerning Debian's rate of development is one of the _core_ issues that caused Matt (and many others) to leave. It used to be funny how old th estuff in Debian stable was. Why is OpenBSD able to use modern packages yet remain stable and secure while Debian is not?
If your shipment of Kool-Aid has not yet arrived please call Apple Support and they will help you track down your shipment of Kool-Aid and if necessary order you replacements if the originals were lost. The very last thing us here at Apple Computer Support Department want is any of the public to ever have to go through Kool-Aid withdrawl.
Sincerely
Apple Customer Indoctrination Support
Apple is selling more Macs than it has in over a decade. They're approaching record numbers in some spots like laptops where Macs have climbed to a 12% marketshare. They can't meet the demand and are sourcing a 3rd manufacturer to help build more. So how exactly has Apple's switch to Intel HURT them? Is your definition of hurt a special definition that really means "THE BEST THING THATS EVER HAPPENED TO THEM!"!?!?
Apple's laptop marketshare of 12% would seem to disagree with your assertion that they aren't usable.
Find me a non-human primate that can confirm to us all that they agree with your position.
Yeah they couldn't keep on making music out of a love for the music or anything.....
The purpose of this program is to provide computing services to the entire school system. Its not to turn every single student in the state of Keralla into a computer science graduate. Aside from computer science and computer engineering students, virtually NO ONE ELSE needs to be exposed to 2 at most 3 operating systems, and here you are suggesting exposure to what, 8? What purpose would be served by teaching Johnny to write an essay on OpenVMS?
I'm guessing the whole point of his argument is that he shouldn't have to take any extra steps he wouldn't have to take with Windows to get hardware and software working.
So you'd prefer the economic disasters of say the Soviet Union or China pre-free market reforms to the economic success of Singapore.
Interesting.
If the occupation requires a high level of skill and is in great demand then the most restrictive employers will lose employees to the least restrictive employers, assuming compensation is equal.