Shit, ActiveX based plugins? I hope they have fixed the "security" problem with it, else this is gonna make Outlook based virii look like, well, child's play.
My, what a constructive 12 year old you are. Have to hide behind an AC and everything. And the day some slashdot asswipe beats my ass is the day I buy a Mac and move to West Hollywood.
I'd agree with parts of your arguments except they don't really apply.
Yes, I agree with the point about individual accountability, but what about CORPORATE accountability?
Think: If you own a business and you do something illegal, what happens?
You go to jail. Do not pass go. Do not collect $200. You lose your business. Think of it as a death penalty. You have everything to lose if you decide to join the dark side.
Now, consider a massive, multi-national corporation, who's only goal is to, well, make money. If you can make $500 million in profits using illegal methods, knowing that the penalty will probably be around $10 million in fines, what do you think is going to happen? There is no corporate death penalty anymore. Yeah, they fire the CEO (and give him a multimillion dollar severance package and send him on his way), and maybe some other key executives (ditto), but before long, you have the same mentality producing the same problems. It's a numbers game.
Milk my testes, bitch-boy. Whether or not *you* or *I* are into Feng Shui, people are paying up to $125/hour for "feng shui" consulting. (Jesus, I'm in the wrong field). Bullshit or no (I tend to believe the former), that's some goddamn fine money.:)
/*Up until maybe 6 months ago there were many printers and network cards (reasonably curent models) still on store shelves without working Win2k drivers. */
And this is different or relevant how?
How many months did I spend without sound because there weren't any Soundblaster Live! drivers that would work on my Linux system because I had 2 processors? How many months did I spend without proper USB support? Just how many scanners can I not buy because there are no Linux drivers for them?
The river flows both ways and to be truthful, Windows and its variants have more (supported) drivers than Linux will ever dream about. Why is it that people who want to install Linux are encouraged to peruse a "hardware compatability" FAQ before they do so? I've never had any problem with hardware under windows. If I can get the OS to see it, I can get it working. With Linux, good luck.
I'm not bashing Linux. The fact is most companies are not writing Linux drivers for their products. We are, for the most part, dependant upon the hard work of *volunteers* to support the hardware. And, usually, the drivers are minimalistic and many don't take advantage of the hardware fully (ATI Radeon All-In-Wonder anyone?).
Did you notice they opted to spend a bit *more* money for Thin Clients with no moving parts? No moving parts generally means less support costs in the long run (less shit to break).
The guys that set up the stuff really did a pretty bang up job. I might have done things differently, but that's the beauty of UNIX/Linux: there's more than one way to do it.
Linux is hard to use as a home DESKTOP system for typical home DESKTOP users.
In a business environment it's actually ideal: Easy to lock-down, easy to upgrade (especially in this case.. Upgrade the software on the servers, there are no "desktops" to update), etc. Office workers use what you tell them to use (you may have to show them a few things, but how is this different from anything else?). My friend's mom uses UNIX at her work and she's oblivious to it. Windowmaker on her desktop. Click that to get to her application, enter her data, press that key, done.
Sure, there are things that could be more convenient (you still can't get any more integrated than MS Office), but you just learn to work around what you have.
The key is that work is BEING DONE. Today. In the "real world."
I think UserFriendly did a great spoof where the resident Windows (tm) geek started switching to an anti-MS stance, so MS sends a hot babe to convince him otherwise..
I wonder when they will begin to arrive in Largo, FL?
:)
Re:Because MS Bugs == Planned Obsolescence
on
Windows in 2020
·
· Score: 2, Insightful
Faster? Hrm, have *you* loaded KDE2 lately?:P
Seriously, though. I agree 100% to the post previous to yours. I'm running Windows2000 and have a significant amount of money invested in *commercial* software (*cough* Office *cough*) that I'm not going to just throw away because someone says "linux is faster and more stable." My Win2K experience is, for the most part, rock solid. It works for me. I will not upgrade to XP for the same reasons as stated before: I'm uncomfortable with the idea of my machine calling "home" and the idea of having to stay on the line for "tech support" to get a new key if I continue to geek out and buy new hardware. Fuck that.
I've got Redhat 7.1 on my Sony Vaio 505FX. Mainly because I didn't want to be a pir8 and just put Win2k on it (win98 is just so horribly unstable). Linux works well on this laptop, although the sound is still not configured right (and I don't have internet access with the laptop. If you want to send me a PCMCIA ethernet card, feel free to.:) ) but I hear that the ALSA stuff works wonders. However, as this is a basic, learning machine, that's not really an issue (indeed, I'm glad it's broken because eventually I'll be annoyed enough to actually figure out how to fix it).
When I was 4, I was in my apartment complex running around like a, well, screaming 4 year old. One of the residents (happened to be a RN) was watching me play with my brother and then called me over to him. He took a good look at me, grabbed my hand and took me to my apartment.
"Your son has the measles. Take him to the doctor, now."
There was a person, completely unrelated to me, who didn't even have kids whom I could "endanger" with my measles. Was he within his rights?
The original poster must realize that an infected machine has already been compromised by an intruder. If you walk past an apartment and see someone has forced the door open and is ransacking it, do you continue walking by? Or do you yell at the thief? Call the Cops?
Those "infected" machines are flooding the pipe that I'm paying for, so doesn't that make them some part of a "commons" that makes them part of everyone's responsibility?
If my neighbor is playing his music too loudly, don't I have the right to knock on his door and say "Hey, turn that down, please?"
If I'm being constantly probed by thousands of infected machines, my internet access greatly slowed down by all the garbage in the pipe, don't I have a right to find the owners and tell them "Hey, knock that shit off. Fix your damn machine, it's hurting everyone."
Furthermore, to pick on another pet peeve of/., doesn't the consumption of bandwidth by infected machines remind one of the arguments *against* spam? "I pay for my access, I don't want to pay for spam." Twist that into "I pay for my access, I don't want to pay for some virus propagating at my expense..."
/* If someone is breaking into your house to use your coffee maker, are you allowed to kick down their door and throw away all their coffee? */
If the bastard is in *your* house, it really doesn't matter *why* he's there. You don't know for sure why he's there, all you know is he broke in your house. That's why if someone breaks into your house and you blast him, it's generally held as self-defence.
With computers, it completely different. With a case like Code Red, after examining the virus itself, you can determine the damage it causes *after* the fact. However, sometimes that's "too late" and loss of property is accomplished (I don't care what the "anti-intellectual rights" people say. If I write a document, that document is mine, whether on floppy, printed out on a sheet of paper, or scribbled on a napkin.) The argument would be: If someone is actively probing my house for weaknesses, is that person considered a hostile threat? In my neighborhood, yes they are. You bang on my windows and doors trying to test the locks and 5-0 will on your ass faster than you can say "But, I was just testing to see if the doors were unlocked..." Intent is the key and unless you *live* in my house or I give you explicit permission to test my house, I, and the police, will assume your intent is hostile. Let your lawyers fight it, I don't care.
Unfortunately, this is not my house. If anything, the internet might be considered some kind of "private commons." It'll probably be illegal as hell for someone to write an anti-codered virus, but hell. Seeing how thousands of sysadmins, after extensive media coverage, STILL haven't closed the holes, they're wasting *my* bandwidth, *just* like spammers, eh?
I say someone needs to write the anti-code red innoculation, and then someone else needs to write an anti-Outlook virus (one that turns off all those nasty features that make it so dangerous to mail servers around the world).
Knowing our current justice system, however, the writer of "anti-code red" would be tracked down and hauled to court (and then jail) while the real perpetrators would continue to crank out virii after virii...
Just an observation: I've noticed that a lot of the so-called "Chinese virii" (Code red, "fuck USA government, etc) all seem to have major flaws in their design, implementation, etc. Does anyone else get the idea that someone, somewhere, is getting an education from all this? I mean "Yes, the virus worked, but.. Ahh.. crap, forgot about that... I'll fix that next time.." It's almost as if these are HS/College course projects...
I run redhat 7.1 on my laptop, a Sony 505FX. It was the first distro that I've used that:
1) Didn't require passing arguments about just where the cdrom was (vaio 505 uses non-standard address for CDROM)
2) Didn't lock up probing the PCMCIA port, which is connected to the CDROM at install time (and the vaio configures at boot time)
3) Properly identified and installed the X driver on first try, resulting in a halfway decent looking desktop
4) wow! I can turn off all that networking shit I don't need at install? Nice!
Consequently, it is the first Linux install on my laptop that actually convinced me to delete the Windows98 partition and do *all* my work on the laptop under Linux.
I've yet to try installing an ethernet card, but this laptop is not used (currently) for browsing the web.
I also cannot get the sound working quite right (no other distro got it right, either), but that's not necessary at the moment.
I'd have to agree. I learned the most about linux when I botched an install and wiped my NT partition. So, I had a perfectly functioning Linux machine, no Windows, and I said "Fuck it" and used Linux for about 2 months. Eventually, though, I needed to do some urgent stuff on Windows (uh, Everquest), and I found dual booting to be a pain in the ass, so I bought Win2K. I've been happy with Win2K mostly, but I just installed a linux only setup on my laptop to keep in "practice."
If you want to learn UNIX/Linux/BSD, you need to force yourself to learn how to do everything *in* that environment. By rebooting into Windows every time you want something done "quickly," you'll never learn how to do it "quickly" in Linux.
/*Remember how Win2000 was suppose to solve all the stability problems of Win9x? Win2000 still crashes frequently. */
For whom?
Windows 2000 hasn't crashed on me in.. wow, I don't remember.
I can, however, recall X crashing on me a year or so back. In fact, it crashed so often that I said fuck it and bought Windows 2000.
Oh yeah, that's what it was; Geforce2 and Windows 2000 didn't get along March 2000, crash city with games. Downgraded to Matrox G200 and no problems since (and have since up'd to Voodoo 3).
OOO! Didn't think of this, either until just now: Could have been a faulty card (probably the cooling fan? I think I recall problems with those... This *was* a refurb I got at Frye's). That may have caused the instability in both Linux and Windows 2000. Hmm.. I would switch back to Linux but I'm already pretty content with Win2000 right now. No crashes, no fuss, all the apps I need are already paid for..:)
I'd buy it. Jesus, it's a shame to have all that horsepower so I can just play games every once in awhile. And just think! Imagine a Beowulf cluster of these things! HA!
:)
Seriously, I'd never leave the couch. Ever. Again.
He clearly states that DESKTOP market will not support such a market. In the corporate world, it's a different game altogether (IBM still makes money supporting OS/2 for their corporate clients. Redhat makes beaucoup bucks doing the same for Linux in corporate environments).
I agree partially with your assessment: You can't make money on support and service, but with the caveat that you can't make money supporting the average consumer. I've always felt tech support was a money "losing" proposition, but necessary for the success of the company. See Dell's stellar service reputation (and see it get run into the ground by subcontracting). I can't tell you how many people bought Dell's for their reputation in service, which costs Dell money, but makes up for it in volume sales of actual product.
If only Microsoft would use a few of their billions to do the same...
Next time you get lost or are unsure of where something is (say, an obscure club that's hidden in an alleyway), don't bother asking anyone. Just go back home and jack off to Natalie Portman.
Is it so hard to say "Oh yeah, go down this street three blocks, turn left, go one block, right across from the Walgreens"? Or how about "I don't know?"
People get lost and confused all the damn time. Go fuck yourself.
Jesus, if I saw you on the street and you gave me an answer like that, I'd punch your lights out.
"Excuse me, sir, where is Third and Hawkins?"
"Well, it's documented on every map of the city that there is. Maybe you should have done the research before you came around here, bothering me and asking me for my help. Why don't you go buy a fucking map?"
I'm actually in the market to do some amateur video work, but all my solutions keep pointing to Windows based solutions. Adobe Premiere and the like just *seem* to be more mature. I've not seen Broadcast 2000 yet, so maybe I'm wrong in this assumption.
Any suggestions for doing video work under Linux or under windows? A good comparison between the two at this time? Just wondering..
Slashdot Mirror
Shit, ActiveX based plugins? I hope they have fixed the "security" problem with it, else this is gonna make Outlook based virii look like, well, child's play.
Nice try at a retort, but please, try again.
LOL
My, what a constructive 12 year old you are. Have to hide behind an AC and everything. And the day some slashdot asswipe beats my ass is the day I buy a Mac and move to West Hollywood.
Lick my testes, bitch-boy.
Yes, I agree with the point about individual accountability, but what about CORPORATE accountability?
Think: If you own a business and you do something illegal, what happens?
You go to jail. Do not pass go. Do not collect $200. You lose your business. Think of it as a death penalty. You have everything to lose if you decide to join the dark side.
Now, consider a massive, multi-national corporation, who's only goal is to, well, make money. If you can make $500 million in profits using illegal methods, knowing that the penalty will probably be around $10 million in fines, what do you think is going to happen? There is no corporate death penalty anymore. Yeah, they fire the CEO (and give him a multimillion dollar severance package and send him on his way), and maybe some other key executives (ditto), but before long, you have the same mentality producing the same problems. It's a numbers game.
For more on this and more, check out this book .
Milk my testes, bitch-boy. Whether or not *you* or *I* are into Feng Shui, people are paying up to $125/hour for "feng shui" consulting. (Jesus, I'm in the wrong field). Bullshit or no (I tend to believe the former), that's some goddamn fine money. :)
If you're into Feng Shui, avoid cactus and other pointy plants. (maybe it's their similarity to pointy haired bosses...)
/*Up until maybe 6 months ago there were many printers and network cards (reasonably curent models) still on store shelves without working Win2k drivers. */
And this is different or relevant how?
How many months did I spend without sound because there weren't any Soundblaster Live! drivers that would work on my Linux system because I had 2 processors? How many months did I spend without proper USB support? Just how many scanners can I not buy because there are no Linux drivers for them?
The river flows both ways and to be truthful, Windows and its variants have more (supported) drivers than Linux will ever dream about. Why is it that people who want to install Linux are encouraged to peruse a "hardware compatability" FAQ before they do so? I've never had any problem with hardware under windows. If I can get the OS to see it, I can get it working. With Linux, good luck.
I'm not bashing Linux. The fact is most companies are not writing Linux drivers for their products. We are, for the most part, dependant upon the hard work of *volunteers* to support the hardware. And, usually, the drivers are minimalistic and many don't take advantage of the hardware fully (ATI Radeon All-In-Wonder anyone?).
The term is called "ignorant" and it's not supposed to be an insult. :)
speaking of maintainence:
Did you notice they opted to spend a bit *more* money for Thin Clients with no moving parts? No moving parts generally means less support costs in the long run (less shit to break).
The guys that set up the stuff really did a pretty bang up job. I might have done things differently, but that's the beauty of UNIX/Linux: there's more than one way to do it.
Even further correction:
Linux is hard to use as a home DESKTOP system for typical home DESKTOP users.
In a business environment it's actually ideal: Easy to lock-down, easy to upgrade (especially in this case.. Upgrade the software on the servers, there are no "desktops" to update), etc. Office workers use what you tell them to use (you may have to show them a few things, but how is this different from anything else?). My friend's mom uses UNIX at her work and she's oblivious to it. Windowmaker on her desktop. Click that to get to her application, enter her data, press that key, done.
Sure, there are things that could be more convenient (you still can't get any more integrated than MS Office), but you just learn to work around what you have.
The key is that work is BEING DONE. Today. In the "real world."
I think UserFriendly did a great spoof where the resident Windows (tm) geek started switching to an anti-MS stance, so MS sends a hot babe to convince him otherwise..
I wonder when they will begin to arrive in Largo, FL?
:)
Faster? Hrm, have *you* loaded KDE2 lately? :P
:) ) but I hear that the ALSA stuff works wonders. However, as this is a basic, learning machine, that's not really an issue (indeed, I'm glad it's broken because eventually I'll be annoyed enough to actually figure out how to fix it).
Seriously, though. I agree 100% to the post previous to yours. I'm running Windows2000 and have a significant amount of money invested in *commercial* software (*cough* Office *cough*) that I'm not going to just throw away because someone says "linux is faster and more stable." My Win2K experience is, for the most part, rock solid. It works for me. I will not upgrade to XP for the same reasons as stated before: I'm uncomfortable with the idea of my machine calling "home" and the idea of having to stay on the line for "tech support" to get a new key if I continue to geek out and buy new hardware. Fuck that.
I've got Redhat 7.1 on my Sony Vaio 505FX. Mainly because I didn't want to be a pir8 and just put Win2k on it (win98 is just so horribly unstable). Linux works well on this laptop, although the sound is still not configured right (and I don't have internet access with the laptop. If you want to send me a PCMCIA ethernet card, feel free to.
goddammit. You mean we'll have to resort to warez parties again?
Actually, not a bad idea.. It's so rare that I see my friends these days...
:)
Break into my house, you die.
Throw away my coffee, you die slowly.
:)
Hell, I'd give even another example.
/., doesn't the consumption of bandwidth by infected machines remind one of the arguments *against* spam? "I pay for my access, I don't want to pay for spam." Twist that into "I pay for my access, I don't want to pay for some virus propagating at my expense..."
When I was 4, I was in my apartment complex running around like a, well, screaming 4 year old. One of the residents (happened to be a RN) was watching me play with my brother and then called me over to him. He took a good look at me, grabbed my hand and took me to my apartment.
"Your son has the measles. Take him to the doctor, now."
There was a person, completely unrelated to me, who didn't even have kids whom I could "endanger" with my measles. Was he within his rights?
The original poster must realize that an infected machine has already been compromised by an intruder. If you walk past an apartment and see someone has forced the door open and is ransacking it, do you continue walking by? Or do you yell at the thief? Call the Cops?
Those "infected" machines are flooding the pipe that I'm paying for, so doesn't that make them some part of a "commons" that makes them part of everyone's responsibility?
If my neighbor is playing his music too loudly, don't I have the right to knock on his door and say "Hey, turn that down, please?"
If I'm being constantly probed by thousands of infected machines, my internet access greatly slowed down by all the garbage in the pipe, don't I have a right to find the owners and tell them "Hey, knock that shit off. Fix your damn machine, it's hurting everyone."
Furthermore, to pick on another pet peeve of
Just some thoughts...
/* If someone is breaking into your house to use your coffee maker, are you allowed to kick down their door and throw away all their coffee? */
If the bastard is in *your* house, it really doesn't matter *why* he's there. You don't know for sure why he's there, all you know is he broke in your house. That's why if someone breaks into your house and you blast him, it's generally held as self-defence.
With computers, it completely different. With a case like Code Red, after examining the virus itself, you can determine the damage it causes *after* the fact. However, sometimes that's "too late" and loss of property is accomplished (I don't care what the "anti-intellectual rights" people say. If I write a document, that document is mine, whether on floppy, printed out on a sheet of paper, or scribbled on a napkin.) The argument would be: If someone is actively probing my house for weaknesses, is that person considered a hostile threat? In my neighborhood, yes they are. You bang on my windows and doors trying to test the locks and 5-0 will on your ass faster than you can say "But, I was just testing to see if the doors were unlocked..." Intent is the key and unless you *live* in my house or I give you explicit permission to test my house, I, and the police, will assume your intent is hostile. Let your lawyers fight it, I don't care.
Unfortunately, this is not my house. If anything, the internet might be considered some kind of "private commons." It'll probably be illegal as hell for someone to write an anti-codered virus, but hell. Seeing how thousands of sysadmins, after extensive media coverage, STILL haven't closed the holes, they're wasting *my* bandwidth, *just* like spammers, eh?
I say someone needs to write the anti-code red innoculation, and then someone else needs to write an anti-Outlook virus (one that turns off all those nasty features that make it so dangerous to mail servers around the world).
Knowing our current justice system, however, the writer of "anti-code red" would be tracked down and hauled to court (and then jail) while the real perpetrators would continue to crank out virii after virii...
Just an observation: I've noticed that a lot of the so-called "Chinese virii" (Code red, "fuck USA government, etc) all seem to have major flaws in their design, implementation, etc. Does anyone else get the idea that someone, somewhere, is getting an education from all this? I mean "Yes, the virus worked, but.. Ahh.. crap, forgot about that... I'll fix that next time.." It's almost as if these are HS/College course projects...
I run redhat 7.1 on my laptop, a Sony 505FX. It was the first distro that I've used that:
1) Didn't require passing arguments about just where the cdrom was (vaio 505 uses non-standard address for CDROM)
2) Didn't lock up probing the PCMCIA port, which is connected to the CDROM at install time (and the vaio configures at boot time)
3) Properly identified and installed the X driver on first try, resulting in a halfway decent looking desktop
4) wow! I can turn off all that networking shit I don't need at install? Nice!
Consequently, it is the first Linux install on my laptop that actually convinced me to delete the Windows98 partition and do *all* my work on the laptop under Linux.
I've yet to try installing an ethernet card, but this laptop is not used (currently) for browsing the web.
I also cannot get the sound working quite right (no other distro got it right, either), but that's not necessary at the moment.
Good job, RedHat!
I'd have to agree. I learned the most about linux when I botched an install and wiped my NT partition. So, I had a perfectly functioning Linux machine, no Windows, and I said "Fuck it" and used Linux for about 2 months. Eventually, though, I needed to do some urgent stuff on Windows (uh, Everquest), and I found dual booting to be a pain in the ass, so I bought Win2K. I've been happy with Win2K mostly, but I just installed a linux only setup on my laptop to keep in "practice."
If you want to learn UNIX/Linux/BSD, you need to force yourself to learn how to do everything *in* that environment. By rebooting into Windows every time you want something done "quickly," you'll never learn how to do it "quickly" in Linux.
:)
/*Remember how Win2000 was suppose to solve all the stability problems of Win9x? Win2000 still crashes frequently. */
:)
For whom?
Windows 2000 hasn't crashed on me in.. wow, I don't remember.
I can, however, recall X crashing on me a year or so back. In fact, it crashed so often that I said fuck it and bought Windows 2000.
Oh yeah, that's what it was; Geforce2 and Windows 2000 didn't get along March 2000, crash city with games. Downgraded to Matrox G200 and no problems since (and have since up'd to Voodoo 3).
OOO! Didn't think of this, either until just now: Could have been a faulty card (probably the cooling fan? I think I recall problems with those... This *was* a refurb I got at Frye's). That may have caused the instability in both Linux and Windows 2000. Hmm.. I would switch back to Linux but I'm already pretty content with Win2000 right now. No crashes, no fuss, all the apps I need are already paid for..
I'd buy it. Jesus, it's a shame to have all that horsepower so I can just play games every once in awhile. And just think! Imagine a Beowulf cluster of these things! HA!
:)
Seriously, I'd never leave the couch. Ever. Again.
/*For all we know, it could be because they used pirated software. */
AHAHAHAHAHAAH!!!! WOOOOO!!! HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAhahahahaahHAHAHAHAH!
'tears up' HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA! AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH!
PIRATED SOFTWARE?
In CHINA??
NOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
ahahahahaahahahHAAHAHHAHAHAHAahahahaha
that's the best fucking laugh I've had in a couple weeks.
bzzzt.. wrong.
He clearly states that DESKTOP market will not support such a market. In the corporate world, it's a different game altogether (IBM still makes money supporting OS/2 for their corporate clients. Redhat makes beaucoup bucks doing the same for Linux in corporate environments).
I agree partially with your assessment: You can't make money on support and service, but with the caveat that you can't make money supporting the average consumer. I've always felt tech support was a money "losing" proposition, but necessary for the success of the company. See Dell's stellar service reputation (and see it get run into the ground by subcontracting). I can't tell you how many people bought Dell's for their reputation in service, which costs Dell money, but makes up for it in volume sales of actual product.
If only Microsoft would use a few of their billions to do the same...
Next time you get lost or are unsure of where something is (say, an obscure club that's hidden in an alleyway), don't bother asking anyone. Just go back home and jack off to Natalie Portman.
Is it so hard to say "Oh yeah, go down this street three blocks, turn left, go one block, right across from the Walgreens"? Or how about "I don't know?"
People get lost and confused all the damn time. Go fuck yourself.
Jesus, if I saw you on the street and you gave me an answer like that, I'd punch your lights out.
"Excuse me, sir, where is Third and Hawkins?"
"Well, it's documented on every map of the city that there is. Maybe you should have done the research before you came around here, bothering me and asking me for my help. Why don't you go buy a fucking map?"
*punch*
I'm actually in the market to do some amateur video work, but all my solutions keep pointing to Windows based solutions. Adobe Premiere and the like just *seem* to be more mature. I've not seen Broadcast 2000 yet, so maybe I'm wrong in this assumption.
Any suggestions for doing video work under Linux or under windows? A good comparison between the two at this time? Just wondering..