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Interested In A US Linux For PS2?
Sony Computer Entertainment America writes "What is the interest level for a US release of a GNU/Linux Kit that works with the PlayStation 2?
Sony Computer Entertainment Inc (Japan) recently released a Beta test version of Linux for its PlayStation 2 Computer Entertainment System.
Currently, the PS2 Linux Kit is only available in Japan and only runs on a Japanese model of PlayStation 2 However, Sony Computer Entertainment America (SCEA) is considering the possibility of a US release of the kit. At this time, no decisions have been made as to whether to release, how much a US kit would cost or when it would be released.
SCEA wants to find out what the level of interest for a PS2 Linux Kit is in the US. You can visit their website to register your interest."
Who needs onboard storage if you've got ethernet...
Burn your own boot CD: No. You have to boot from Sony's media. Sorry, them's the breaks.
Recompile the kernel: Yes. It comes with a full toolchain, kernel source, and a lilo-like boot loader. You just need the CD in order to start it.
You cannot make bootable discs under PS2 Linux. In fact, you do not have access to the DVD-ROM drive for any discs that are not PlayStation/PlayStation2 discs (the DVD that the distribution comes on is a PS2 disc, so yes, you can mount that)... However, you do get gcc, and you can recompile the kernel, which you can store on a memory card, so you can boot whatever kernel you want that way.
instead of one of the Dell/Toshiba/IBM/whatsoever corporate whore notebooks)
Yeah, as opposed to Sony, the small Indie startup.
As much as I heard from a Japanese programmer who bought this kit - yes, it's inside the Linux DVD..
You do not, however, get all the sources. Some of the things are under closed source license (like the Emotion driver, etc..)
Hetz (Heunique)
If I could get Linux for this thing, I could finally have the Ultimate Party Box. Just think:
Mmmm. Throw in broadband and start streaming music and doing massive multiplayer gaming... mmm.
For SCEA reps who may be reading this: Linux is how to ensure the PlayStation 2 becomes and stays the market leader, and those are the reasons why.
Don't think of it as a flame---it's more like an argument that does 3d6 fire damage
A used PII-400 system would run Linux just great, and only cost a fraction of what a new system costs, maybe even the same as a PS2!
Maybe so, but it would be noisy, (most likely) bulky, it would probably not play DVDs (and a remote is extremely unlikely), and it would not play PS2 games. It would require time and effort to figure out drivers and configuration issues, whereas PS2Linux is probably an upcoming distribution with few options needed.
My PC won't run Tux Racer. What are the odds a PS2 wouldn't run a version made especially for it?
Ooh, a sarcasm detector. Oh, that's a real useful invention.
What about UK-based users? I'd pay for this. How about France, Germany, etc...
How likely is it they'll use the "Not enough demand in region x" argument, when there would be enough global demand?
I would rant on and on about global corporations using spurious geographical distinctions to shaft the user, but we've all got DVD players, so that'd be redundant.
This sig left unintentionally blank.
I guess you (USAans) will need to build more prisons very quickly. If everyone who copies the ISO to the HD to tweak the system and burns back to CD-R gets accused of reverse engineering by Sony...
You might find a person or two who wants to play PS or PS2 games and also wants a linux box. That makes it more efficient than buying a PS2 for the games and a NIC for other stuff. Plus, people might want to try writing PS2 games, which is impossible on a PS2 without this or on a NIC.
The MZ-104+ from Tri-M sounds like it would fit the bill nicely. I haven't tried it myself, but I found out about it when someone replied to a similar post I made on slashdot recently :-) I'd already
built myself an OpenBSD firewall by then, but if
I hadn't, I'd definitely be looking at the MZ-104+.
"The invisible and the non-existent look very much alike." -- Delos B. McKown
Hey, not to spoil the fun for those who might actually want to pay for a fixed disk and network card in order to install linux on their PS2's. If that's what you want, by all means let Sony know. But not me.
:-)
I bought my PS2 to get away from Linux. I love the fact that I can stick a CD in and play a game, without fuss or trouble. Even my techology challenged sister can use the damn thing. Sure, linux on the PS2 has great hack value and could be plenty of fun... but so is 68K/Sparc/PPC/Alpha/x86 (etc etc etc) linux. It just doesn't seem worth the trouble from my perspective. And what are you going to play, Tux Racer? That is, if someone ports hardware accelerated Mesa to the PS2 (which would be a cool project for those who actually want this kit). Me, I'll stick with Gran Turismo, which happens to be an amazing game.
Cheers,--Maynard
"The stock PS2 doesn't have one. " Sure they do, it is carried on the game disk (except for the bootstrap in rom on the box) so that they can upgrade it as they go, just like on the psx.
Vermifax
Vermifax
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Aside from the coolness factor, why would you run Linux on a PS2 anyway? The PS2 doesn't have enough dynamic storage or networking ability to make it into a nice PC-like or net appliance unit, does it?
Apologies in advance if this seems like a stupid question.
Please mod this post only if you think others should/n't read this. I have enough ego^H^H^Hkarma. Thanks!
Yes, I love useless technology, but the fridge thing could be useful and AFAIK has already been done.
The idea is that it has a barcode scanner in the door, and it keeps track of what you are putting into it. Then the next time you're leaving from work and want to know what you should buy at the store, you just connect to the fridge and find out. I mean, it's crunch time and you're coding til 3am, you don't want to call the wife and wake her up, do you?
writing computer games
Since the Linux that runs on it is a full distro including c compiler and other fun development tools, how hard can it be to write a game that is bootable from a cd-r in your PS/2? Another cute thing is when the games are open source, they can be easily ported to other architectures. That way, linux (and maybe other *nixen as well) will get more cool games, which will aid in the acceptance of Linux as a gaming platform even more, leveraging the desktop more *our* way. World domination... woohoo :)
Oh, and about Linux kit availability in the US, why not in Europe? *I* live in Europe, and I would be very interested in playing with kit like this. Europe has it's fair share of very talented geeks as well, you know. The world is not only America or Japan. Right... I'll stop spouting...
--
I'm more thinking about storage and networking (such as the aforementioned Ethernet/HD module in Japan)... how much does that add-on cost, just to get you network and semi-permanent storage?
And how much can you thinker with the kit on the PS2, without the ability to burn new CDs for booting, etc? You'll need a PC devkit as well.
SlashSigTheorem: Humorous, Political, Critical, Constructive- If you have a
In this case, your $300 for a display would be better spent for a 25" Sony (black) TV set with S-Video in. :)
;)
I thought only the GPU pushed 6.2 gigaflops; what good will that do for your RC5 client?
SlashSigTheorem: Humorous, Political, Critical, Constructive- If you have a
How many peripherals will PS/2 be able to use under Linux, so as to make it "usable for something other than a hobby."
How strong is interest for the "Linux for Dreamcast" tinkering going on?
Will people pay $300 for a gaming console, $(x*100) for peripherals, and then $Y for a Linux kit, when they can get all that and more for $200 from a NIC (see www.thinknic.com )?
I'm not bashing the idea; certainly some of us here like to do things "because it's there," but what practical uses for end users and sales opportunities for Sony can come from this?
SlashSigTheorem: Humorous, Political, Critical, Constructive- If you have a
Play stations are still about $150 here, so it isn't quite that level, but it is awfully close. You can even buy used PII PC's on EBay for $50.
-m
I agree that PC games tend to be as good or better than PS2 games. The PS2 is a very cool box, but an Athlon with a GeForce3 has more power, ram, and hard drive than a PS2. By the end of the year, PCs will leave PS2 in the dust, performance wise. As you said, the attraction of consoles is that you don't have to write for 6 different flavors of Windows, worry about a Linux/Mac port, and try to support hundreds of hardware configurations.
-m
The playstation is currently really hard for small developers to support because the development stations are so expensive and it is difficult to port to from a Windows platform. Providing Linux for PS2 almost fixes this. Providing Linux with OpenGL drivers (and hopefully, a SDL port) completely rectifies the situation.
The X-Box is really attractive to small developers because it is a console where we can develop titles on regular PC workstations, then have a publisher (like Microsoft themselves) foot the minimal cost of the port if the game looks good. On PS2, the port is really expensive since the hardware is so different from a PC. With Linux and OpenGL support, I could develop on a Linux PC and Linux Playstation. I could also easily port PC Linux, Windows OpenGL, and Mac OpenGL/OSX apps to Playstation.
-magic
Blue Axion Studios
When I finished my questionnaire (vote), the meter read 472 votes. Brief refresh (just to see if number changed) read 485! A few minutes later, over 550. Site is fine, but the slashdot effect is readily visible.
Anyone know when the site first went live (just out of curiosity)?
= Joe =
There's a comment line. Use that to suggest supporting Java on PS2 as well (perhaps in future if not available immediately).
:-)
Just a suggestion, but I think Sony already has Java in works, so it could be a reasonable addition to their Linux offering. Java games on PS2, hehe.
It looks to me like it uses the PCMCIA slot, which our US PS2 kinda lacks...
Only if it can be umulated under palmOS under PocketPC under Windows 98 under Mac OSX ander Linux.
If it ain't a Model M, it's a piece of crap.
Even better, you could hook up a FireWire hard drive (assuming support for PS2 FireWire was there).
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
Slightly relevant to this topic is that Sony was also planning to have PS2 Java support later this year - I was assuming it was a port of the Blackdown project under Linux.
Perhaps that will help a few people sign up to ask for the dev kit! Myself, I'd almost be wiiling to buy the whole package just to get the VGA adaptor.
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
Uh-oh, I've got to take a wizz.
Think man, think.
Think, think, think.
I'd better get up.
Greg
(Inside a nuclear plant)
Aaaarrrggh! Run! The canary has mutated!
Okay, they released it for the Japan PS2. So get someone who got it to request the source, then port it.
(All non-trivial, but someone had to say it;)
Jesus was all right but his disciples were thick and ordinary. -John Lennon
Could be low end 'front' end for a server-client server architecture
,controller/interface/nic cards we got the server'
Eg linux serving in background, w/ PS2 handling the 3D-X interface and mouse etc. Backend handling multi-game storage and net connections, stand-alone game servers, web, mp3, stack of game cd-'s(multibootable) etc. Then a LAN party would be 'Bring your PS/2, games
A NIC with bootp would be wicked thou. Would not need HD then. Kit could be cheaper.
make Linux, not Microsoft. sin(beast) = -0.809016994374947424102293417182819
http://www.ps2linux.com/images/pv/screenshot.jpg
Pretty cool!
Too bad there's no way of actually telling that it was taken from a PS2, though. I mean, I probably could take a shot of my current desktop on my pc here and try and claim it's running on my microwave, using the fridge as a fileserver.
I suppose there's no real reason to suspect this'd be faked, though. If the PS2 can run X and Gnome, I'd be surprised if it *did* look different than on a desktop!
"Intelligence is the ability to avoid doing work, yet getting the work done".
It's only software!
I suppose I may as well start the inevitable thread...
With the Linux kernel and GNU utilities being released under the GPL, does anyone know if the source to the modifications Sony has made to them are available? Even if the US version of the PS2 "kit" never becomes a reality, having this source would probably help people independently port Linux to the machine.
"Intelligence is the ability to avoid doing work, yet getting the work done".
It's only software!
I disagree. There are many uses for this. One that comes to mind almost instantly is as an mp3 player. I can see this possibly being done in two ways.
First, if the PS2 is networked, all it needs to do is boot, and nfs mount the directory with the gigs and gigs of music on your desktop. From there, a simple gui would allow playing of music using the controller pad. Why Linux? It's got decent networking support, and it (hopefully) shouldn't be to difficult to port a player such as mpg123 over to the PS2.
Another alternative would be to burn a minimal kernel and interface software to a CD (or DVD), followed by as many mp3s as can fit on the disk. Essentially this should give you a bootable, playable mp3 disk for the PS2. I realize that this would probably require modification of the actual PS2 unit to recognize the burned disks, though. Again, Linux would be great for this since similar things have already been done for PCs, and development could be done on a regular PC using a cross compiler.
My point is, though, that just because it can run Linux doesn't mean that it should be turned into yet another desktop system or web server. Granted, the PS2 has enough horsepower that it probably *could* do these things, but I think there are many more uses for a powerful-yet-inexpensive kernel on these devices.
"Intelligence is the ability to avoid doing work, yet getting the work done".
It's only software!
By accident, a week ago, I clicked on a link on the right side of the main /. page (Happy Penguin, I think) that was labelled, "Falcon's Eye." I immediately thought, "yet another alpha version of an SDL game that will go nowhere."
Boy, was I wrong. It's a 3d rendered isometric dungeon crawler. I kept reading and:
It *is* Nethack.
I don't mean, "based on," I mean "is." It is a fork of the code. I immediately downloaded it and it is very polished. It even has a big intro, reminiscent of the games from the 486 days, only with better graphics.
I've been playing this a lot lately, and I even have Loki games I recently bought that I haven't even started playing yet.
My only issue is that it sometimes 'stops' when I enter a shop. At first I was dismayed and killing it, so I was about to start debugging it. Interestingly enough, the game continues just fine when I start strace'ing threads. Odd.
Everyone should go download this right now: http://falconseye.sourceforge.net/.
How has the Japanese one been received? What have people done with it? What can it do? (Were drivers for everything included?)
I know they sold out quick, but does it DO anything?
--
Charles E. Hill
Learning HOW to think is more important than learning WHAT to think.
This is just the sort of bastardization I hate. If you want to run Linux (I do (Run it that is.)), buy/build an f'ing computer. PS2's may be cheap, but by the time you've got a keyboard/mouse, etc, it just doesn't loook quite so attractive. Plus the onboad storage is so limited.
Actually, the Japanese version comes w/ a 40G Hard Drive, mouse, and keyboard (among other things).
"A mind is a terrible thing to taste."
Sony's not a video game company. They're a consumer electronics company that makes a lot of other stuff. Clocks, stereos of all sizes, televisions, and, of course, laptops. And that's just the stuff I can see from the front door of Circuit City. I can't help but think that any experience they gain with Linux in the PS2 arena would eventually turn out to be useful elsewhere in their product line. . . and if they happen to garner some enthusiasm in the developer community, so much the better.
Actually Sony DOES want to give people the idea that the PS2 is a computer. Ever actually SEE a PS2? In big, bold letters all over the box and in the instruction manual, Sony refers to it not as a game machine, or a gaming console, but a 'Computer Entertainment System'. What does that tell you? The Linux kit is Sony responding to demand and at the same time watching a carefully controlled experiment. They want to see if they can put together a nice little distro that allows people to make the PS2 do what they need it to. After all, the PS2's chipset could be the Next Big Thing as far as home computers go. Ever see the pictures of the 'ideal' PS2? It's got a USB keyboard, mouse, broadband adapter, hard drive and Sony flatscreen monitor. Sounds like a computer to me. Particularly with AOL's involvement to bring a mutated version of their connection software to the PS2 for use with the modem. I think there's a connection between the AOL Linux alpha that got leaked and the PS2.
I don't think consumers in general will ever be scared of the PS2. They might be in awe of it but it's not going to get scary, even with an OS and all the trappings that come with your average PC. In fact, since it's running Linux and will be simple and rock-solid, it's really the next step of the evolving console. It's what consumers have wanted for YEARS. A reliable, simple, hard-to-crash game machine that gets them on the internet, easily.
Female Prison Rape in NY
It's close to the real thing.
If this were a genuine Slashdot Effect, the biggest bar on each graph would instead be 'CowboyNeal'
So you have linux running on your PS2. That 8 MB memory card ain't gonna last long. Isn't there a hard drive slated to come out? If so then you wouldn't even have to worry about networking it to play MP3's and such. You might be able to actually install linux to the PS2 Hard Drive and then be connected to the net (which I guess would require networking) and get your MP3's and such from there. Hopefully the Hard Drive will be out soon. Otherwise it seems a little worthless to me.
I play all those games *now* on my PC with my old SNES / PSX controllers.
:-)
Check out the Linux Parallel Port Joystick driver. Compile the module and set your options. A quick converter box later, you're all set
I suppose if you only had the money to buy either a PS2 or a cheap home computer, and wanted to run Linux, the PS2 might not be a bad option if you play a lot of games.
However, if you can afford a PS2 and lots of games, you could afford a used PC to run Linux on. A used PII-400 system would run Linux just great, and only cost a fraction of what a new system costs, maybe even the same as a PS2!
The storage options and expansion capabilities (or lack thereof) on the PS2 are a real turn off for me. It's a neat idea, and I'm glad people are playing with odd hardware and Linux, but I just don't see how this will be of any use to people, other than for entertainment.
Oh, well. It's their money.
Interested in weather forecasting?
This could be cool, but with the following considerations:
1- It needs to come with a supported keyboard and mouse, modem/broadband support, and have a desktop environment, so that I can actually DO something with it.
2- It damned well better support apt-get or something similar, because I am NOT going to try to compile a program and fill all of its dependencies just to screw with Linux on the PS2.
It would also help if it could do cool stuff out the box to begin with, such as Tivo like abilities, especially now that the PS2 hard drive is getting ready to ship. Of course, if this thing has net access people will be able to just code all that goodness for me to download.
Could you use the Japanese Linux kit on a US PS 2 if you had the right modchip? Or is it more substantial hardware differences than that?
There's 10 types of people in this world, those who understand binary and those who don't.
Everyone knows that Sony sells their console at a loss, so any investment in PS2's for commercial use would have Sony subsidizing part of it.
;-)
I'm thinking linux-based personal TV recorder ala TiVo with DVD built-in. Could be hot...
Actually, the interesting thing is that this is also effectively a survey of /. readers, minus all the garbage survey options, and the joke answers people put in (Why yes, I think Cmdr Taco should run for president. ;-)
CSG_Surferdude
LongTail SSH Brute Force analysis tool is here!
See http://www.ps2linux.com/dmesg.html It looks like this is a semi-official Japanese site. Considering the Kit is already out in Japan, this is good stuff to see! Hogarth
Wow great, that means Saddam actually might be able to make a supercomputer out of all those PS2s he allegedly purchased/purloined when they first came out in the States. Talk about making a beowulf cluster of those...
So far I've gotten all my Karma from telling people they are wrong... :)
Forget the slashdot effect, how about a clean and clear demographic picture of the slashdot crowd...
If I were an advertiser, I'd know where to pump ads...
Of course the Legal aspects of this is another question.
Here are the requirements for my server/firewall/NAT box:
1. It should be relatively inexpensive.
2. It should not generate much noise. I do not want to be able to hear it running during quiet parts of movies I'm watching (Remember...apartment...my home theatre is in my home datacenter)
3. It should be small.
A PS2 with Linux fits these requirements. (So would a hacked Tivo, which is another possibility, but I'd like to avoid hardware hacking)
I wouldn't plan to use a PS2 Linux box as a computer. I'd be connecting it to my TV and stereo and using it as some sort of networked media appliance, to play divx movies and mp3s available on my network. I wouldn't need a keyboard and mouse, just a remote, so I think it would look quite attractive.
http://www.ps2linux.com/images/pv/screenshot.jpg
I think the idea of having a AV centric computer is a plus. Having actual vendor support for getting to the GFX chipset is a big plus. I like the idea of having a single machine on my coffee table I can use for Gaming and Surfing. Of course I have a 110 inch HDTV projector, so that helps. But I think as more and more people get DTVs the more useful something like this will be.
But that's just my $.02
After all, once a PS2 gets obsoleted by the PS3, it becomes an abandoned platform and supporting those kinds of platforms has been one of the strengths of the open source and free software movements.
Curmudgeon Gamer: Not happy
I don't know much about the Japanese port, so I may be asking questions with obvious answers here. But if I am, please provide URLs!
Is this Linux port worth anything?
* Will I be able to burn my own Linux CD according to Sony's specifications, and boot whatever kernel I want on the PS2?
* Will I be able to get the GNU compiler set up at home, according to Sony's specifications, so I can recompile the kernel and other applications to run on the PS2?
Both statements are true *today* with the Sega Dreamcast console (except that the instructions came from the community, not from Sega), which means I can run Linux (http://linuxdc.org), or anything else I want to on it by simply burning a CDR.
If Sony's hardware remains sufficiently closed such that it won't let me do on the PS2 what I can already do on the Dreamcast, then I'm not interested.
b.g.
b.g.
These can be ported to the PS2 proper, without Linux, using the usual PS2 SDK.
Working toward a usable PDA environment in the spirit of Newton OS: Dynapad
Any microcontroller can perform computation. Therefore it's a computer. :-) It just can't do stuff that your _personal_ computer does...
Grab.
Yes, it could be worse than Linux on a PS2. You might use it for [gasp] gaming, or something equally entertaining that works out of the box. Now we get to figure out why XFree refuses to start on yet another system. Oh WOW! That Emotion Engine works wonders for console text.. Mmm hmm.
This is almost as bad as the guy who years ago put a Mr. Coffee on the web.
and with the playstation's superior graphics, nethack could be fully rendered in 3d and i can live my dream of being chased through a dungeon by a huge 3d rendered ampersand.
when religion is no longer the opiate of the masses, governments will resort to real opiates.
No, not in the pr0n sense (although if you had it hooked up to a 31" tv that streaming amsterdam feed would look pretty good) but think for the kids. The may very well already have a TV. If they have a TV they probably have some sort of game system. Now they want their own computer (kids these days, when I was their age we didn't have these PCs at home... blah blah blah) you can spend an extra $200 or whatever and give them a hard drive, keyboard, and mouse to hook to their TV. Load up StarOffice (or whatever flavor you like) and they are set to go. This sounds like a good idea for computer savvy families who's kids already have tv in their rooms.
Besides all that, it would give the rest of us (possibly) a chance to do some programming for the motion engine. That would be fun.
Politics, Culture, Food?
No kidding. You wouldn't believe the number of hits my MP3.com page gets every time I post to slashdot, because of the .sig!
Are you joking??? I'd love to get my hands on such a kit...
The possibilites would be endless... anyone could try their hand @ game programming... HOOK ME UP!!!
I can think of plenty of reasons this would be useful.
With my Dreamcast I can burn an (WinCE) OS and a bunch of MP3s on a CD and listen to them. I can burn a VCD and watch that. I can boot Linux from a CD. I can also (get this) play Dreamcast games.
Running Linux on the PS2 may not be useful for someone with 3 or 4 computers in their home already, but you cant play Gran Turismo 3 on your home computer either =)
This is kind of their plan for the PS3. With the PS2 they are only experimenting on this front.
The PS2 is an integrated video game, CD player, and DVD video player
While the PS3 will also incorporate the Internet, and other media services, perhaps even Tivo style recording, as it will have a large HD
If they could sell a version of Linux with web, email, IM, etc. capabilities then we could abandon the bulky desktop machines. For the average user who just uses the web and email, the PS2 could be the true replacement for the PC. Of course, I would never get rid of my PC...but I don't think I'm the average user. ;o)
More probably, your washing machine has a microcontroler not a CPU.
A microcontroller is a CPU with a reduced instruction set. So there.
--
--
#nohup cat
Could be used to turn the Playstation into a low cost home PC/internet appliance. All it would need would be a CDROM, hard drive.
Hey!
I just got a DOS prompt on my fridge!
Not that its useful, but its something to do!
Next, I'm gonna give it an IP!!
Moderators, this is very metaphoric cynism, and it is on topic. If you don't understand, just skip it.
--
Good quote, too many chars. Seriously, the slashdot 120 char limit sucks!
For a second there I thought that was Taco replying
aztek: the ultimate man
No sig for you!!
Actually, the PS2 would fail on point #2. It makes more noise than my computer. Admittedly, my personal computer has quiet fans, but it is a common complaint that the PS2's fan is really noisy.
Do you consider the X-Box a PC then? It's supposedly running a special version of the Windows 2000 kernel underneath of it with DirectX drivers. Maybe that was too easy a point that consoles can be "PCs" since almost everybody knows that the X-Box really is just one, but how about the Dreamcast? If I recall correctly, the developers got a WinCE development kit in addition to the barebones dev kit to develop games for. If the Dreamcast can run an OS, would that be a PC? I think other people had it more correctly that a PC is much more open and can be expanded as a computing device. Not that it is defined by running an OS of any degree.
I agree with your point especially since many people on various other forums have expressed the same idea about the X-Box and the fact that it may just turn out to be a standardized computer, but I don't believe that Sony is going to market this development kit to your everyday consumer. They had a very limited number of PS2 Linux development kits that were available to the Japanese, and they only took pre-orders/orders on their website. Again, they're not stupid to think that the millions who have bought the PS2 will buy a Linux OS "add-on package".
I don't know where you found that the X-Box CPU is much slower than the PS2. Reading on various websites, the Intel CPU plus the NVIDIA chipset (GeForce 3 basically) is really great. Mind you, I own a PS2 and I have no intention of buying an X-Box, but only because nothing impresses me about it. The machine itself is great and I wouldn't mind owning a regular PC equivilant, but that's kind of the whole point. There are no exclusive games that make me jump and say "Wow!". Halo for instance (if you even think that's revolutionary anymore), is going to the PC and Mac. The only exclusive Japanese game that I've heard of so far is Dead or Alive 3, and while it looks good (I also own DOA2: Hardcore), I am much more addicted to Tekken's style of play. I believe the main failure of the X-Box as it stands now, is the official lack of support of Japanese developers as Brian Hook stated in his Ask Dev column over at Voodoo Extreme. Also, there are hardly any exclusive games, and the mainstream who follow trends will jump on the PS2 if the price drops just because games like Gran Turismo 3, Final Fantasy X, and so forth are on it, and almost any other X-Box game that's great, will also be on PS2 (Metal Gear Solid 2, Tekken, Tony Hawk, SSX: Tricky, etc.).
If you go the page now, view the results of the survey, then repeatedly hit reload on your browser, you can see a real live slashdot effect.... one submission per second (approx). Very neat!!
"Free beer tends to lead to free speech"
Sam ported SDL to the PS2 graphics chip not too long ago. The code is in CVS.
:)
Anyone up for porting Mesa?
-John
I am in favor of running linux in cheaper and faster platforms then a monolithic pc. I would love to trash my pc and get a cheap console with a real monitor outlet and USB keyboard/mouse support. The monitor port issue is the only problem. A firewire one or a standard pc monitor output plug would suffice. I believe if Microsoft would port ms encharta and ms office to the xbox it would finally solve the problem of getting a computer into every home. Its the cost factor and the fact that pc's are designed to run boring bussiness apps like office. If you have no use of taking work home then you don't need a pc.
A ps/2 with linux would change this.
But in order for Sony to be successfull it needs to make their ps/2's easier to program with a standard software platform. If they wrote some mesa drivers and include some custom gcc compilers then it would benefit Sony greatly. Developers are more fimiliar with Opengl and linux/unix libraries and could help write games for the ps/2. Sony would only need to write a good video driver and a version of gcc. The reason why the xbox is getting popular is not because its agood machine infact its cpu is alot slower then the ps/2, but it will take the lead because of devlopers. You can download wince emulation for free for w2k. Also many game developers are more familiar with directx then Opengl or some proprietary library the ps/2 uses. Apple learned to accept opengl to survive and Sony needs to do this and support it in ps/2-Linux.
Sony needs to do this not to help consumers run linux apps but to accelerate ps/2 development before Microsoft accelerates its xbox platform by its windows and vstudio monopoly.
Perhaps Sony can create a special version of linux that loads itself automatically and can be scripted to run the linux game or app on the same cd. This way we can develop it in linux and have linux run automatically when the game loads up and not need worry about how to load linux first then the game second. My only concern is the lousy 8 megs of ram! This is the 21 century! The version of linux would need to be a small micro version of striped with everything but libraries for the game to use. Remember that the games need to share the 8 megs of ram as well. We would need to have it under 1 meg since even 8 for a game is way too small. Sony probably had to do this due to the cost of rambus ram. Smart move sony. The xbox would be much easier to port linux to sadly enough. If we only port linux to the xbox then the arguement on why to do game development on linux is dead.
http://saveie6.com/
buy/build an f'ing computer
Isn't the PS2 a computer? It might look a little different than a typical "Personal Computer", but inside its very similar.
I see your point... I guess its all about how you think about it. PCs and PS2s both have the components that (at least as far as I'm concerned) make up a computer. CPU, memory, I/O. While there is the argument that a PS2 was designed for only one task (games) and isn't very good at things that a 'computer' is good it, one could also argue that the PC wasn't designed for games (more for office work) and has evolved into a game machine (over many many years).
... I don't know if I see the point of it either >:D
I should also remind you that a computer is also defined by the presence or absence of an operating system
Another good point... but I tend to think of a computer more in terms of the hardware than the software. In this case, if you load the same software (Linux) on a PS2 and a PC, is the PC still a computer and the PS2 still a game machine?
And then again, On the other hand PS2+Linux, well, I don't see the interest of the thing
Not owning a PS2, a Linux distro sounds like an incentive to buy one. It could put the whole thing to a different level of usability, away from toy towards a system that I will mainly play with, but, if needed, can use it for other matters, too. I could even use it as a notebook for presentations ... (I just want to see those faces if you put a PS2 on the desk and connect it to the projector/TV instead of one of the Dell/Toshiba/IBM/whatsoever corporate whore notebooks)
Geek: SAH!
SONY Overlord:Yes?
Geek: I have or new websevers up and running!
SONY Overlord:Excellent. Now, how can we test to se if the new configuration can handel the heavy traffic....Hmmm....
Geek: Porn site! Nothing attracts web hits like p0rn!
SONY Overlord:No, HR would have a fit. Perhaps we can lure those open source people to slashdot us wih empty promises and manipulative target marketing... Geek:SAH yes SAH!
Had you followed the links in the story, you would have received answers to atleast 1-2 of your questions--
On the SCEA website they linked to, there's pictures of the whole kit that was released in Japan, and it included a 40GB HDD, as well as a 10/100 ethernet adapter (as well as USB keyboard and mouse, and a VGA cord). They also showed pictures of the OS running Gimp, and I assume with the 10/100 you could probably run Netscape and browse the web or check e-mail. Thus solidifying itself as a VERY useful alternative to WebTV or other set-top Internet boxes.
Personally I want this thing released in the US, I'd buy a PS2 if they did.
All I know about Bush is I had a good job when Clinton was president.
True. =) Well, the first and last links (the ones that hit SCEA's domain) both have the info I detailed in my message (and the pictures, worth a look-see). They're both in English and use regular fonts, so I'm pretty sure you'll be safe. I haven't checked the other links (one is to another Slashdot Article) though, but then I haven't really had time, plus the SCEA site had all the info I was curious about.
All I know about Bush is I had a good job when Clinton was president.
Many people seem to have no knowledge of what the PS2 Linux kit comes with. When you buy it it's not just the distro. The Japanese version had a USB Keyboard & Mouse, a 40GB external HDD(the original Japanese unit didn't have an internal hard drive bay like the US PS2) the software on a DVD and a VGA output cable. Hopefully that clears up some folks objections/questions.
... Assuming the Linux that ships for the PS2 has some form of USB support, the possibilities are limitless. Native support with games for keyboards, mice, PC steering wheels & certainly other peripherals is already quite strong.
/ hdd.htm Use the Fish!
Then there's the whole firewire IEEE 1394 which the console supports, the possibilities are limitless.
Some pictures of the Japanese PS2 Hard Disk Drive & Ethernet Unit. http://www.watch.impress.co.jp/game/docs/20010719
After all, the PS2 is the official gaming console of Rob Malda, isn't it?
"Ancillary does not mean you get to rule the world." --U.S. Circuit Judge Harry Edwards, speaking to the FCC's lawyer
If Linux for PSX is to be sold, sell it on the web and don't avertise it.
Burn Hollywood Burn
If you look at the numbers you see 93% would buy the stuff while 6% are not sure and 1% will not buy it. The shares among these answeres doesn't reflect at all the proportions of anti linux trolls on /. - this would imply that many of the Linuz SUX/is dying trolls are indeed Linux users with nothing better to do... :-)
give me Linux,Mozilla,Xmms, and a nice TV out and a ethernet adapter for my home LAN, that's all I want, if I want to play games, I'll play games, but at $300+keyboard and mouse, I think it makes a nice webterminal.
One real nice strength of putting Linux on anything is the real nice networking support, perhaps add a usb based tvtuner device and use Xawtv to watch a show while on the website in the Chatroom. (screensavers on ZDTV anyone?)I think PS2 supports HDTV and VGA on top of regular TV out, might be a reason to go get an HDTV set.
"The Most Fun Possible on 4 wheels" is at SunBuggy in Las Vegas
Isn't the PS2 a computer?
Yep. I think IBM made them. We had a whole computer lab full of them. They were pretty spiffy, in an underpowered sort of way.
I got my Linux laptop at System76.
On can fairly assume that a port of linux to the PS2 would come with at least a hand full of drivers. It wouldn't take long to write a chunk of code that would watch the interaction that the box would have when it was passed data from a game ROM. I would think that if nothing else, such an inroad could at least lead to a great emulator for linux.
Anyway, I know that the topic of this artical is "would you want it", but seeing as how the topic has degraded into "what would it do", I feel free to bring up a topic I haven't seen listed here yet.
What are the chanced you will see Microsoft port linux to the XBox. It is looking more and more like the battle is down to the two big "corperate whores". No matter what, when the next biggest game boxen comes out, PS3 or XBoxII, the current PS2's and the soon to be XBox consoles will be put on a shelf forever. (Much like my Nintendo64). My point is this. When it's time to put them away, which one (sony with linux or microsoft with ???) whould you be more willing to keep?
Say for some reason you want to pull an Xsession up in the bathroom, wouldn't it be nice to have a quite little PS2 (that you wouldn't be using anymore anayway) to handel all the nasty rendering that your session will need?
I have 6 Sega Dreamcast. One here, one there, another one in the cornor. They all work great as little terminals. I can't wait to upgrade these to PS2's, so that I can get the better resolutions that it will provide me. Start a BitchX client in the bedroom, surf the web in the den, and play quake from the john.
I realize that PS2 will never replace the PC. but were it can serve the same role, let it.
Soon, I will be picking up my newest terminals for $40 as the local pawn shop.
TEN
In case you're interested the total "Yes" votes was a little more than 200 after I voted.
You know, I know nothing about how this would work.
I don't know if I would use a Linux port to PS/2 per se. I already have a nice machine I run Linux on.
I can, however, tell you one thing I would have a hard time resisting: a gaming port of Linux to the PS/2. If there's one thing Linux is missing, it's gaming. And let me tell you, being able to run a PS/2 as a game server running PS/2 games would turn me on to PS/2 like nothing else has in a long time.
Like I said, I don't know how feasible this is. But having the PS/2 gaming resources available to Linux would be one of the best things for Linux in a long time. It's not the same as being able to run Linux games on my Dell directly, but close enough.
Hmm, either you don't have a clue or you're from some dimension where the command prompt has a future. I have a feeling it's gonna get a litte hot around here ... ;)
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Actually... Not at all.
Well if you consider that everything with a CPU and some memory is a computer, so be it, but so is my washing machine and the remote control of my TV.
The architecture of the PS2 (or any other console) is different from the architecture of a PC. You might compare it to a very special and 'I do only one task but I do it well' embedded system, while PC are generic devices.
I should also remind you that a computer is also defined by the presence or absence of an operating system. The stock PS2 doesn't have one. Developers get development kits, not an OS. On the other hand PS2+Linux, well, I don't see the interest of the thing but I guess that it qualify as a computer.
Nobox: Only simple products.
Well, I do. But I do not agree. More probably, your washing machine has a microcontroler not a CPU. And your remote control probably is just an integrated circuit. Not a computer. A console is more an specialized computer than a microcontroler or just an integrated circuit. And for the operating system thing, it really depends of the use of the computer
A computer is a machine capable of fetching (simple) instructions from an storage media and execute them, updating its internal state (conceptually is like a finite automata)
You are mixing the concept of Computer with the concept of Personal computer
Make It Secret . Free JavaScript implementation of AES for your browser
But not the kind of CPU that conform a computer :-)
Make It Secret . Free JavaScript implementation of AES for your browser
Can you imagine a Beowulf--Oh, never mind.
We need more details. Of course there will be marked support for this in the community, but what official support will Sony provide for the PS2 port of Linux?
Will it support DVD playback (DVD playback in Linux? Say it ain't so, Joe!)?
Will it officially support the PS2 HD and broadband adapter?
What sorts of special apps/tools will be concluded to make this not only a worthwhile project, but something actually USEFUL? We're not talking using GIMP on a Dreamcast, here. What actual functionality will the end users see here?
Any chance of end users participating/overseeing development of the Linux package Sony will be supplying? Can anyone say, GNU Net Yaroze?
What sorts of restrictive licenses will we be facing in using/abusing this product?
"Mod, mod, mod...and another troll bites the dust."
Yes
Hobbyist Use
DSL/Cable Modem or Better
PlayStation or PSOne
Teacher: (taking attendance) Bueller?....... Bueller?.......Bueller?
Girl: Um, he's sick. My best friend's sister's boyfriend's brother's girlfriend heard from this guy who knows this kid who's going with a girl who saw Ferris pass out at 31 Flavors last night. I guess it's pretty serious.
Think about this for a moment. Who are the primary targets of Video Game consoles? I would think young kids. There was this article on slashdot the other day that talked about how video games can be beneficial to young kids as it teaches them coordination, problem solving, and allows them to imagine and fantasize. What if at the same time we were also teaching them how to use the Linux OS?
:). I think Sony should go for it, and perhaps include as a manual a small primer on Linux to get people started. Though I never read a manual when I was young and figured out DOS just fine, so I imagine kids will do the same. Then when the kids figure out the system, they can teach there parents, not only how to play games, but how the OS works. Could be a good way to expand the community.
How great a day would that be? From a young age, kids will use the Linux OS and teach themselves, without knowing it. Most kids would want to play with the system and see how it works. Instead of teaching them how to use GUI only, we can show them the command prompt. Kids can, and will, teach themselves how to use the system. If we get into networking, the kids can learn about root and how to set up an effective network. Yes, these kids *can* imagine a cluster of these machines, and they just might try it.
For us slightly older folks, I think we would enjoy this system. It would be cool if I get my choice of distributions too
Lawrence Lessig is my personal hero.
What about rendering farms? If these devices are as good as they're hyped up to be, stringing a bunch of these things together and using scripting languages like Perl and Python should kick some computational butt!
"BSD is about people pissing each other.." (Moid Vallat)
A perfect use for free software. Done right, it will let game developers leverage the huge stable Linux code base. It's hard to imagine the wonders which might emerge from that. Ultimately, cheaper and better software. Why do it? Well, first, let's look at it fron Sony's point of view. With a relatively small effort on their part, they open up their platform to a whole new class of developer. The kinds of people who like tinkering and pushing the envelope for the fun of it. For example: I can see a TiVo-like open-source app being developed for such a platform. Imagine how cool _that_ would be! Not to mention an Ogg-Vorbis based home-stereo system. All with integrated Mozilla-based web access. It could be _fantastic_! The PS2 could become, in effect, an open-source settop box. From my perspective, as a potential PS2 buyer, of course I'd rather leverage my money by buying into an extendable system, rather than a closed system. Duh. And why would anyone develop apps for it? Well, firstly, because it could become a huge market (depending on how Sony handled it). And secondly, enthusiasts would create open/free software, just for the fun of it -- because they could.
is obviously to run MAME, snes9x, etc. with PS2 controllers. You would have some real bragging rights to have all the old arcade games ever made, all the nes games, all the snes games, etc. etc. etc. all on your ps2.
--
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WHO ATE MY BREAKFAST PANTS?
I don't see why a video game company would waste effort on something like this. People buy the PS2 so they can pop in a CD and start pressing buttons. If they wanted to make the PS2 better, they should start with decreasing the load times.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
~ now you know
This is just the sort of bastardization I hate. If you want to run Linux (I do (Run it that is.)), buy/build an f'ing computer. PS2's may be cheap, but by the time you've got a keyboard/mouse, etc, it just doesn't loook quite so attractive. Plus the onboad storage is so limited.
TODO: Something witty here...
A linux for Playstation would actually be a perfect solution for third world countries as my own. If anything, it would actually prove that cheaper PCs are possible to make...
I see two interesting possibilities for home use. I want to know what you think:
1. Cheap rendering machines. I'll admit that I don't know much about hardware, but do you think there is possibily a way to make these machines cheap rendering farms? Maybe not only software rendering to frames, but ways for users to create their own rendered-on-the-fly creations, like maybe a very-poor-man's VR system?
2. Home server uses. Possibily ports of Apache and other Linux staples that allows more self-hosting of web sites and streaming media. (Real democracy of video and audio content... home broadcasting beyond webcams.)
3. Hardcore Internet Telephony. Home use of telepresence tech. House to house video conferencing.
4. Home holography. Holographic phones like in Wild Palms. I'm really just kidding... but with enough graphical power this could be an eventual possibility.
I would love to see high end graphical hardware enter the home and actually be controlled by interested users/hackers instead of a small number of game publishers. I think it would be an excellent development.
"Yes.. no matter what the culture, folk dancing is stupid." -MST3K
What about the rest of the world, Europe for example? Why can't these things happen globally? Are we really that different? It's bad enough having to wait an extra 6 months for your PS2 and now this. shoot some worms!
Go on, shoot some fish!
I'd like to see what gets developed when these kits get out there. Putting the technology available in Linux in a small box, especially if it includes a network port, is going to generate some interesting applications. You will see dedicated slashdot viewers shortly after the release. You will be able to watch DVD's on your PC while scanning the internet on your TV.
Who would win this election: Andrew Weiner vs Andrew Weiner's weiner.
now can you imagine a beowulf... but... what are the reverse engineering possibilities here?? I'm thinking i get Linux on my PS2, it's not too long before PS2 games are available for Linux.. How big of a market and boon for Linux would THAT be?