Oh, he/she's a 'troll' so you gotta go run tattle like a child? but when linux 'hackers' do something that shouldnt be done, but it benefits you, i don't see you running to tell that someones violating their agreement.. but that's how you double standard freaks are eh? !SUPORT FREE SPEECH! except when it isn't to my benefit. *clap*
Countless times I've read the nice little quote from B.Franklin about how giving up freedom for security deserves neither, heck, it's almost quoted religiously here.
Why do I bring this up? Quite simple actually, and I don't expect you to agree with me, I'm just writing what I feel and see. You all (most) consistantly contradict yourself, by quoting that quote from BF, then go use the GPL, you contradict yourself. Indeed when you use the GPL and develop under it you are giving up freedom for false security, I'll explain:
note: the author has real freedom over the code he/she has written.
anyone that develops/adds on to a GPL'd program gives up his/her *freedom* to make it proprietary or do whatever he/she wants. Since the code they are working on was GPL'd by someone else anything modifications they make must be released under the GPL and source made available.
what security from this 'protection' have you gained? The source will always be available? sure, can companies make proprietary products? Not legally, and has the GPL stood up in court? not yet it hasn't. So how do you prove someone took your code and made it proprietary? reverse engineer? That's illegal. Even if it wasn't illegal, just how are you going to prove to a court that *might* be able to do perl (really stretching it) is going to be able to decern from assembly code (compiler optimized assembly code at that) that it is indeed your code? They can't, only way would be for to release the code. So I say, the security that you claim is 'protection', and feel is gained by giving up your freedom, is indeed right along the lines of the very quote you'll use tomorrow from BF.
but it's just like everything else on slashdot isnt it?
NT crashes, it's headline *news* about how bad NT is, but if linux does, well it's the perl_mod, or the sql server you're using.. anything but linux.
intel has a PSN on their new chips, woe to them, privacy privacy privacy!@#! then the very next day have a post on AC's on slashdot, that they should have to register, but that's different right? got something to say put a name behind it right?
He referenced what he/she, and x number of others classify as 'art', the point is, who determines what's 'wrong', surely you know most people have different/opinions/ of what is 'good' or 'bad', so its 'ok' to empower folks to make decisions of discresios based on THEIR moral/opinions/ ?.
haha man, still wont get over that one 'system works' - no im not taking you out of context, but if you think 'the system' any system of 'society' works, you are about sold-out/owned by the very system you talk about. You are a foolish person to think it is 'ok' to allow other people to make decisions for you, any decision for you. Education is everything, educate anything and everything, with enough education -- thus coming knowledge you (yes on your very own) can make your own moral, ethical, decisions.
Asshole? excuse me if i stepped on the wrong nerve..
Since you friends have no 'drive' from smoking pot, i suppose if they snorted coke and did 5 times the work they do now coke would be 'OK' right? since the determining factor in your statistical evaluation of what you see is their laziness. 'pot' doesnt make you dependent as you imply, possibly psychological but definatly not phisical.. if you have a weak mind i suppose anything could make you dependent, and that's besides the point, many people have psychological adictions that are of no 'drug presense' whatsoever... caffeine on the other hand, does in time cause you to form a physical addiction to it, at that time you will _need_ it.
oh and a note on the article, you are correct it is put on by cannabis advocates that voice their feelings, precisly why it holds water with our current discussion, because linux is nothing more than a collection of people advocating it's usefulness. Note, none of either comes from one source 'linix - comes from a collection, vs m$ coming from one big company' as is the faq i sent you -- notice the rather large bibliography at the end it to is a collection of people advocating what they believe and feel to be more useful vs one src the GOV. But since you didnt bother to read it, you wouldnt know that. close minded? afraid you could be wrong in your 'opinions'. You say you base your opinions on what you/see/, are you telling me that there is nothing more in/your/ world then that which you can see? You have to look beyond that which you can easily 'see' to learn anything... but i suppose if that little world you live in is that good heck, kick it there =)
See i can kinda see where you are mis-reading my post and pulling CDs in stores out of your hindend, but my comment about the download was to the previous poster tellin me that my mother could find somewhere to download redhat on redhat's site.
"As for your pot reference, get a fucking grip, pot doesn't kill but it makes people stupid."
really? you too i see only know what you've been taught, open you eyes, get out, learn a little more than what your, gov, parents and schools tell you.
http://www.cannabis.com/faqs/cannabis.faq
"Flame me all you want for that comment I couldn't care less, but anyone who needs drugs to cope with reality needs serious help."
I'll then assume, you've never taken cough syrup, aspirin, tylenol.. you've never drank alchohol, never smoked a cigarette, never drank a soda pop (coke, pepsi stuff), and of course, you've never drank coffee right??
lemme guess, all these things are legal right? So because they're legal they are better for you than what's illegal? read the history and the facts on cannabis, it's illegalization is imo illegal in and of itself, it does not make you stupid, it dont kill brain cells or any of that shit, it's better for you than BEER, cigarettes, aspirin, and caffiene.
i dont have to flame you, anyone reading your comments towards pot, understands your ignorance on the matter, and how you've been literally programed by the system to think 'drugs are bad', 'they make you stupid', 'anyone that needs drugs to cope needs help' -- btw where did i say i couldnt cope so i need pot? hell i never even said i smoked pot.
Wow, mom, mind you, is gonna sit with her 56k modem, download and install redhat? Is that what people do? oh no, the blinders again. 'normal' people, you average joe, buys packaged software, he or she may download it if it's not to big, and IF they arent to worried it will mess up their system. -- so after that search who do they buy? oh yah redhat, and they get support (yipee).
ignorant? im aware of the definition, i still think you used it inappropriatly, yes 'she just dont know' makeing 'ignorance' seem like the correct word. I suppose you too are ignorant, im pretty confident you dont know everything there is to know in the world, heck im pretty sure you dont want to know everything, maybe everything about what you do and all that it incompasses but not everything. so you to are indeed ignorant. My mother dont give a rats ass about GPL or RPM, she just wants it to work, does redhat work? gnome? for my mom? hah come on. but that autorun on the cd, or the setup.exe sure does come in handy. oh yah this is about the gpl part, well she dont know the licenses on her software either, then again she isnt a fanatic about licenses.
educate the masses eh? cannabis advocates around the world have been trying to 'educate the masses' for years, yet i still hear 'pot kills brain cells', 'pot does this', 'pot does that'.. it does all the government and the people with the louder voices say it does. but do people that dont smoke it care? or the people that are so accustom to what they've learned as the truth care? nope, they think your a liar no matter what truth, and facts you have.. thus is the same with you method of educating the masses, at work each day there are folks htat are all hype on m$, i dont care what you tell them to make linux all shiney and sweet, it aint m$, its not a product of m$, so it aint something they want to try. Ive had people argue with me time and time again, sure its 'ignorance' (used appropriatly -- why? because they dont know, to chose not to know, where as mom knew of these things yet they hold no relevance to her so she dont care) -- so after a while i started looking from their perspective.. people are cozy with what you got.. take tv's and vcr's.. hell.. i got a nice fancy tv, a remote that controls both vcr and tv, and my stereo... it's the best.. oh but i hear there is a 'free' tv (free as in free speech), it dont have no features like my current one, heck i gotta get up, turn it on, cable works half assed, and most of the programs are unfinished. but its a DAMN FINE BOX, according to the people selling it. The most educating you're gonna do is letting them know there is an alternative out there, they like most folks will simply watch it until to them it is a viable alternative, when it has all the bells and whistles their current os has.
that's nice you work tech support, im proud you got a job, but it aint just tech support where you deal with people that are 'ignorant', im a nice cozy engineer, and yet other 'engineers' i work with, are extremely good at what they do (unix/sybase) work -- then go home to a win box, and you can tell them all you want till you are blue in the face, they still will not succumb to the 'linux movement', as you get older people are less 'risky' and less 'adventurous', they like the nice comfortable ways in which they live. will the future be different? will the next generation kick m$ in the ass, prolly, with linux? i doubt it, but with various alternatives, be, linux, mac, *bsd - yah.. because this generation is different and nothing is set in stone for them.. most adults grew with m$, from dos, 3.1, 3.11 all that up to what they do now. and they anxiously await win2000, -- what its been delayed AGAIN? they dont care.. they sit and think, just good ole m$ making sure its ready for me!..
sorry if i got off topic, i just wish you wolud look around, i dont care if you help 1001010 idiots a day, try walking in their shoes, look at things from their eyes, try to do this literally, FEEL what they feel when you look throw their eyes.. then you'll understand a bit more where im coming from.
See, im gonna finish here. You base you ideas and stuff on your 'beliefs', you/believe/ that redhat didnt do it on purpose, and you/believe/ that redhat isnt trying to 'snuff' out the competition. No offense, but if you were athiest and i told you there was a God would you believe me? you have no more to go on about redhat's doings that i do to prove there is a God, except what i/believe/.
i think there is a saying like, there is more than one way to skin a cat. Red Hat's stradegy in marketing isnt gonna be like m$ because they would loose all of you that cater to them, BUT it's so easy for them to gpl all their works, and in secret have companies develop and label their products 'Yadda for Red hat Linux'. It boils down to what you believe. not what is true.
"You seem to have forgotten that even RH 6.0 is released under the GPL ! "
You are either blind, ignorant or just... not everyone knows, understands, or gives a f*ck about this thing called GPL/GNU (im not saying im one of those people) -- but you, and others like you act as if everyperson big and small, young and old around the entire planet are aware of, and understand the meaning of terms such as 'GPL, GNU, FREESOFTWARE (your version, you know the -not beer- but/free speech/) -- you gotta stop and thing, just as there are 'dumb (as you all call them)' windows users out there, there too will be 'dumb' linux users out there.. how many windows users know there is a trial going on? prolly 30% maybe less hell.. and you think all these people that MAY BE considering coming to linux know wtf GPL is? No they dont, nor do they care.. they were, and are sold on M$, just as they will be sold on the 'name thing' with redhat (if redhat is successful), you all can argue, piss, bitch and moan, but if it gets to the point that (number is fake) 20 million linux users out of 21 million use 'Official Redhat Linux', what are most apps going to be codded to, whether proprietary or not. (redhat if you didnt know the answer). Even the apps that arent, but have rpm's -- you say 'they can just dld and rpm -ahuesacuge90a file.rpm, and boom it's installed - you think its that easy? you think people do that kind of thing? lets see..
*RING* *RING*
hello? hey mom it's your son.. what do you need? mom do you know what linux is? something to do with that unix stuff that you do right? yah, and i was wondering what is GPL? GTL? no mom GPL - 'pee' as in PETER. oh no, no idea.. do you know where i can get the latest .rpm? quit it, you know i dont know anything you are talking about!! im sorry mom, tell me though, how do you get the latest and greatest software? i buy it, put the cd in the drive and it installs! thanks mom.
you see, my mom isnt 'dumb' or 'stupid', she is actually quite brilliant.. she writes books, and poetry and does art.. ALL ON THE COMPUTER!! no shit. and she dont know GPL! or RPM!
i doubt you will even see my point, because most of you where blinders, (you know those things on the bridle of a horse that cover the perifial(sp?) vision) you need to push them off, take a look around.. every computer user is a developer, a h4q3r, or ever technical, not even enough to understand all the things you say here.
Well I'm sure you, i, and most of slashdot do understand this.. but does joe blow surfer? the new guy migrating from windows? What about the MFC developer that is considering developing unix apps and wants a good IDE.. are you saying none of this helps red hat sell more of that 'official red hat linux' ?? It's no secret that geeks always have and probably always will understand more than the 'normal' people out there..
You cant fix a problem by running from it. Thoughts similar to yours have indeed crossed my mind more than enough times. But you have to think.. who is this helping.. 'me'.. if that's the kind of person you are... then you've already doing what the gov wants of you.. the 'me' 'i' and 'mine' thing.. nothing gets accomplished thinking in that manner.. i work with people at work (yah its true).. some are resigning because of things they dont like.. most people are in agreement of the samethings.. instead of ALL of them getting to gether to say what they feel.. instead 1 or 2 on an individual basis tells the boss/team leader off.. and nothing is accomplished.. its the sameway for people as a nation (the us).. you cant run.. like the previous poster said.. it isnt any better elsewhere.. (just looks greener on the other side).. what this country needs -imo- is a revolution.. the people to stand.. and shout in one unified voice..
'to each his own' - right.. =)
-sorry this is off topic for the patent, but on topic for this individual.-
Well yes, how else do you make a 'healthy' society?
no more bomb making instructions, no more chemistry in high school (hell chem is worse that inet instructions), no more physics.. lets see, oh yah.. no more learning history (to much violence in the past).. hell at this rate we should be bonified government zombies in just a few years!
"If you don't like what he says, then don't listen to it."
I beg to differ with your argument to the previous poster, if miguel had writtin him an email with his opinion, and makkah didnt like it, then yes.. delete it, ignore it.. whatever. This isnt the case miguel's words are echoing for a community of developers, and to folks that dont know linux, gnome or KDE in their eyes KDE isnt an option.. such as what one of the other posters said about time mag in that they werent trying linux until gnome 1.0 was released as if there were no other options. Why? maybe they didnt know about KDE, or maybe they did and what they knew was the FUD miguel had been preaching and came to the conclusion that linux wasnt worth trying until it had a viable desktop (GNOME). That is the idea makka dislikes. You dont 'ignore' these types of issues. If the people that first landed in america years age chose to 'ignore' the things they didnt like then there would have never been a civil war! since you may not be american!. Better yet.. if linus/rms just 'ignored' the things they didnt like (no free unix for him, or the free software issues) then there would be no GNU or LINUX.. so friend, telling folks to just ignore what they dislike isnt at all a way of makeing things better..
if you read that entire post with the 'salary brag' as you call it IN CONTEXT to what the post was saying and all you got out of it was me 'bragging' and being an 'arogant jerk' your not a very bright fellow are you? do you really need the point of the post drawn out to you with a coloring book and crayons? Would i like to see the same happen to GNOME as did the old football jerk offs? yah i would if they dont stop their damn bashing. Yes i say 'their' and 'them' because miguel speaks for the whole development effort. Competition is GREAT im all for it, but not at the cost of bashing someone's efforts.. im sorry you are to ignorant to read more into my posts, but i do not, and will never appove of people overlooking the fact that there are REAL people that are developing KDE, not robots trained but people with hearts that have just as much passion and caring about what they do as the GNOME zealots.. its bs.
lemme guess all you got out of this is 'i wanna see gnome die' right? Re-read it now.
That's their 'freedom'. They are 'free' to do whatever the heck they feel like that includes, bashing, spreading fud, maiming, beating, cursing, drinking beer, drugs, bed wetting.. whatever someone tells them is cool.
You said you're ashamed you ever/ran/ linux.. does that mean you dont run it anymore? thats a real shame! what made you stop? Im not gonna bad mouth you for leaving linux that is your 'choice' and 'freedom', anyone telling you differnt are once again contradicting the same thing they continue to preach.
You have a point, they dont even know the name of their 'OS'. Heck they cant see beyond their little imaginative worlds that they've created to even know what it is they're fighting for. Me? i dont run linux, i think its a gay little toy. - hey look ma, i spoke my opinion. Anyways, you are so right!!!!!!!!!!
I've read quite a few of miguels articles.. i really thought this BS talking was over. They're friends now right? Working together for KDE / GNOME integration? hah. Every time miguel gets to talk to the public he has his own 'opinion' about KDE.. the article/press release is about GNOME.. why dont he just talk about GNOME? Why does he have to butt in his negative $0.02 about KDE? I've read all these posts concerning the article, applauding miguel on his ability to speak his mind.. that is such a great thing eh? To have an opinion such as his and be able to speak it. Forget about who it hurts and what damage it does to both KDE and GNOME projects. This is what you all call 'a good thing' right? heh. if we go off of that and believe it, then really i think you're cutting your own throats (the gnome folks).. i've been out of highschool for 10 years now.. but i can think back and remember jocks, and preppies talking down cause of what clothes i wore, or how i talked, or who i hung out with.. was this also to be praised? 'THE JOCKS RULE, THEY HAVE AN OPINION IM A LOSER AND CAN SAY IT' yes that is so right huh? Wow look.. its 10 years later im making 100k a year and they're working at gas stations (yes ive seen them there pumping gas).. so how does this work with the topic? Keep bashing KDE everytime your asked to do a press release/article.. keep on slamming, one day you're going to turn around.. and wonder how come you failed. You'll think.. but i was popular! people cheered me on! then it'll hit you.. damn it was just an image.. an outward appearance. Keep on talking smack about KDE, but you should be wary of it.. at the least when 'users' try to switch and get frustrated with GNOME they'll go to KDE where they feel at home, so in that you only cut your own gnomey throat.. but think of worst case.. you belittle and FUD KDE so that no new person tries it first and they try gnome.. uh oh, it dont work like what they're used to.. they get upset, dump linux all together and go back to win9x with an awful taste in their mouth.. now you've not only cut your own throat, but you've cut linux's too.. All because miguel is such a great guy that can speak his mind right.. er OPINIONS not facts or anything else but biased opinions. *shrug* you can only kick a dog so much until it turns on you.
Please excuse my malformed sentenses, mispelling and any other grammar errors. thank you =)
"Counterpoint: Spark plugs make up less than 1% of a car -- but try driving without them"
That's nice. Do you also tell your pals when they ask you what kind of car you got by the name of your spark plug? such as 'champion' ? I didn't think so.
I wonder, with rob's idea that if a moderator has moderated and then posts all moderation done by that moderator is 'undone'.. what is to stop that moderator from moderating then logging out, posting as an AC, OR logging into his/her spare account to do their posting.. does he have some kind of way to prevent this?
Ah come on you guys/gals gripin.. haven't we seen enough flamin bashin? maybe they're not all funny.. but I'd wager there all funny but to different people... it's nice to see everyone taking atleast one day to sit back and remember they're human =) smile, just kick back and laugh a bit.. if it aint funny to you.. then smile that it's making someone else happy.. !@
I couldn't agree more. Everyone here seems to have a different opinion.. most of which contradict the following day.. it would be really neat to have 2, let us know how it goes. =)
'Besides, who can resist having their favorite colored computer sitting on their desk to enjoy looking at?'
Well now that all depends, i think a pink iMac running linuxPPC, and some wacky color GTK+GNOME/E theme stuff... well.. you know =)
This isn't a GNOME knock, it's wake the hell up... now to us geeks.. we may see something different here.. so that GNOME is better.. but users? hell.. to a user Windows incompasses(sp?) the OS, the GUI and the applications.. that said.. GNOME doesnt touch it.. granted it's coming along fast and great.. but from a USER standpoint that quote is BS.
Think about it.. lil user sees 'better than windows' all this gui and stuff.. so they go get it.. find out suree its pretty and got a great foundation.. but it sure isnt what they're used to, windows may crash alot.. but it is more or less complete.. and offers alot to the 'user'... you all should take a moment and look at things from a user standpoint.. different world out there.
Im not belittling gnome.. im just sayin a little modesty or something would be better... blatently saying something to the media that isnt thoroughly true is the samething another company does.. it gets people's hopes up for something new, improved and better.. only to get it and be let down once again.. only difference here is the user isnt paying $$$ for the let down.. and i for one care about the people, i care about their experience with what they use.. first impressions are lasting!
Just my thoughts..
---/disclaimer/------------------- i am not a writer, or speler =) ----------------------------------
'b) I don't give a [bad word] if Troll Tech emloyees starve, there are far better causes to contribute your hard earned cash'
Isn't that mean? Poor troll kids... but on a more serious note.. this guy/gal is quite the joker.. really funny.. see QPL allows him to make FREE software.. but if he wants to make comercial/proprietary software, he has to pay X$ to Troll tech... cant have that though.. from what i get out of his/her 'rant' looks to me as though he WANTS to make comercial/closed source/proprietary software.. ( you all should be against that right?)..and im willing to wager that he/she would expect people to PAY for that software that he writes comercially and provides on both unix and win*... yet he dont feel he should pay another company that wants money for a product they make...
What ever makes you the most money without you having to spend money right? Double standards suck..
Slashdot Mirror
Why does that matter? Can you stop comparing dick sizes and just be happy with what someone labored over?
Oh, he/she's a 'troll' so you gotta go run tattle like a child? but when linux 'hackers' do something that shouldnt be done, but it benefits you, i don't see you running to tell that someones violating their agreement.. but that's how you double standard freaks are eh? !SUPORT FREE SPEECH! except when it isn't to my benefit. *clap*
BR
Countless times I've read the nice little quote from B.Franklin about how giving up freedom for security deserves neither, heck, it's almost quoted religiously here.
Why do I bring this up? Quite simple actually, and I don't expect you to agree with me, I'm just writing what I feel and see. You all (most) consistantly contradict yourself, by quoting that quote from BF, then go use the GPL, you contradict yourself. Indeed when you use the GPL and develop under it you are giving up freedom for false security, I'll explain:
note: the author has real freedom over the code he/she has written.
anyone that develops/adds on to a GPL'd program gives up his/her *freedom* to make it proprietary or do whatever he/she wants. Since the code they are working on was GPL'd by someone else anything modifications they make must be released under the GPL and source made available.
what security from this 'protection' have you gained? The source will always be available? sure, can companies make proprietary products? Not legally, and has the GPL stood up in court? not yet it hasn't. So how do you prove someone took your code and made it proprietary? reverse engineer? That's illegal. Even if it wasn't illegal, just how are you going to prove to a court that *might* be able to do perl (really stretching it) is going to be able to decern from assembly code (compiler optimized assembly code at that) that it is indeed your code? They can't, only way would be for to release the code. So I say, the security that you claim is 'protection', and feel is gained by giving up your freedom, is indeed right along the lines of the very quote you'll use tomorrow from BF.
but it's just like everything else on slashdot isnt it?
NT crashes, it's headline *news* about how bad NT is, but if linux does, well it's the perl_mod, or the sql server you're using.. anything but linux.
intel has a PSN on their new chips, woe to them, privacy privacy privacy!@#! then the very next day have a post on AC's on slashdot, that they should have to register, but that's different right? got something to say put a name behind it right?
Course i could probably go on and on. =)
i cant write, or spell, i code thanks.
"the whole point...
/opinions/ of what is 'good' or 'bad', so its 'ok' to empower folks to make decisions of discresios based on THEIR moral /opinions/ ?.
... system works "
He referenced what he/she, and x number of others classify as 'art', the point is, who determines what's 'wrong', surely you know most people have different
haha man, still wont get over that one 'system works' - no im not taking you out of context, but if you think 'the system' any system of 'society' works, you are about sold-out/owned by the very system you talk about. You are a foolish person to think it is 'ok' to allow other people to make decisions for you, any decision for you. Education is everything, educate anything and everything, with enough education -- thus coming knowledge you (yes on your very own) can make your own moral, ethical, decisions.
Asshole? excuse me if i stepped on the wrong nerve..
/see/, are you telling me that there is nothing more in /your/ world then that which you can see? You have to look beyond that which you can easily 'see' to learn anything... but i suppose if that little world you live in is that good heck, kick it there =)
Since you friends have no 'drive' from smoking pot, i suppose if they snorted coke and did 5 times the work they do now coke would be 'OK' right? since the determining factor in your statistical evaluation of what you see is their laziness. 'pot' doesnt make you dependent as you imply, possibly psychological but definatly not phisical.. if you have a weak mind i suppose anything could make you dependent, and that's besides the point, many people have psychological adictions that are of no 'drug presense' whatsoever... caffeine on the other hand, does in time cause you to form a physical addiction to it, at that time you will _need_ it.
oh and a note on the article, you are correct it is put on by cannabis advocates that voice their feelings, precisly why it holds water with our current discussion, because linux is nothing more than a collection of people advocating it's usefulness. Note, none of either comes from one source 'linix - comes from a collection, vs m$ coming from one big company' as is the faq i sent you -- notice the rather large bibliography at the end it to is a collection of people advocating what they believe and feel to be more useful vs one src the GOV. But since you didnt bother to read it, you wouldnt know that. close minded? afraid you could be wrong in your 'opinions'. You say you base your opinions on what you
That's nice, get off the little yellow bus eh?
See i can kinda see where you are mis-reading my post and pulling CDs in stores out of your hindend, but my comment about the download was to the previous poster tellin me that my mother could find somewhere to download redhat on redhat's site.
was that to hard for you to grasp?
"As for your pot reference, get a fucking grip, pot doesn't kill but it makes people stupid."
really? you too i see only know what you've been taught, open you eyes, get out, learn a little more than what your, gov, parents and schools tell you.
http://www.cannabis.com/faqs/cannabis.faq
"Flame me all you want for that comment I couldn't care less, but anyone who needs drugs to cope with reality needs serious help."
I'll then assume, you've never taken cough syrup, aspirin, tylenol.. you've never drank alchohol, never smoked a cigarette, never drank a soda pop (coke, pepsi stuff), and of course, you've never drank coffee right??
lemme guess, all these things are legal right? So because they're legal they are better for you than what's illegal? read the history and the facts on cannabis, it's illegalization is imo illegal in and of itself, it does not make you stupid, it dont kill brain cells or any of that shit, it's better for you than BEER, cigarettes, aspirin, and caffiene.
i dont have to flame you, anyone reading your comments towards pot, understands your ignorance on the matter, and how you've been literally programed by the system to think 'drugs are bad', 'they make you stupid', 'anyone that needs drugs to cope needs help' -- btw where did i say i couldnt cope so i need pot? hell i never even said i smoked pot.
Wow, mom, mind you, is gonna sit with her 56k modem, download and install redhat? Is that what people do? oh no, the blinders again. 'normal' people, you average joe, buys packaged software, he or she may download it if it's not to big, and IF they arent to worried it will mess up their system. -- so after that search who do they buy? oh yah redhat, and they get support (yipee).
.. it does all the government and the people with the louder voices say it does. but do people that dont smoke it care? or the people that are so accustom to what they've learned as the truth care? nope, they think your a liar no matter what truth, and facts you have.. thus is the same with you method of educating the masses, at work each day there are folks htat are all hype on m$, i dont care what you tell them to make linux all shiney and sweet, it aint m$, its not a product of m$, so it aint something they want to try. Ive had people argue with me time and time again, sure its 'ignorance' (used appropriatly -- why? because they dont know, to chose not to know, where as mom knew of these things yet they hold no relevance to her so she dont care) -- so after a while i started looking from their perspective.. people are cozy with what you got.. take tv's and vcr's .. hell.. i got a nice fancy tv, a remote that controls both vcr and tv, and my stereo... it's the best.. oh but i hear there is a 'free' tv (free as in free speech), it dont have no features like my current one, heck i gotta get up, turn it on, cable works half assed, and most of the programs are unfinished. but its a DAMN FINE BOX, according to the people selling it. The most educating you're gonna do is letting them know there is an alternative out there, they like most folks will simply watch it until to them it is a viable alternative, when it has all the bells and whistles their current os has.
ignorant? im aware of the definition, i still think you used it inappropriatly, yes 'she just dont know' makeing 'ignorance' seem like the correct word. I suppose you too are ignorant, im pretty confident you dont know everything there is to know in the world, heck im pretty sure you dont want to know everything, maybe everything about what you do and all that it incompasses but not everything. so you to are indeed ignorant. My mother dont give a rats ass about GPL or RPM, she just wants it to work, does redhat work? gnome? for my mom? hah come on. but that autorun on the cd, or the setup.exe sure does come in handy. oh yah this is about the gpl part, well she dont know the licenses on her software either, then again she isnt a fanatic about licenses.
educate the masses eh? cannabis advocates around the world have been trying to 'educate the masses' for years, yet i still hear 'pot kills brain cells', 'pot does this', 'pot does that'
that's nice you work tech support, im proud you got a job, but it aint just tech support where you deal with people that are 'ignorant', im a nice cozy engineer, and yet other 'engineers' i work with, are extremely good at what they do (unix/sybase) work -- then go home to a win box, and you can tell them all you want till you are blue in the face, they still will not succumb to the 'linux movement', as you get older people are less 'risky' and less 'adventurous', they like the nice comfortable ways in which they live. will the future be different? will the next generation kick m$ in the ass, prolly, with linux? i doubt it, but with various alternatives, be, linux, mac, *bsd - yah.. because this generation is different and nothing is set in stone for them.. most adults grew with m$, from dos, 3.1, 3.11 all that up to what they do now. and they anxiously await win2000, -- what its been delayed AGAIN? they dont care.. they sit and think, just good ole m$ making sure its ready for me!..
sorry if i got off topic, i just wish you wolud look around, i dont care if you help 1001010 idiots a day, try walking in their shoes, look at things from their eyes, try to do this literally, FEEL what they feel when you look throw their eyes.. then you'll understand a bit more where im coming from.
See, im gonna finish here. You base you ideas and stuff on your 'beliefs', you /believe/ that redhat didnt do it on purpose, and you /believe/ that redhat isnt trying to 'snuff' out the competition. No offense, but if you were athiest and i told you there was a God would you believe me? you have no more to go on about redhat's doings that i do to prove there is a God, except what i /believe/.
i think there is a saying like, there is more than one way to skin a cat. Red Hat's stradegy in marketing isnt gonna be like m$ because they would loose all of you that cater to them, BUT it's so easy for them to gpl all their works, and in secret have companies develop and label their products 'Yadda for Red hat Linux'. It boils down to what you believe. not what is true.
"You seem to have forgotten that even RH 6.0 is released under the GPL ! "
... /free speech/) -- you gotta stop and thing, just as there are 'dumb (as you all call them)' windows users out there, there too will be 'dumb' linux users out there.. how many windows users know there is a trial going on? prolly 30% maybe less hell.. and you think all these people that MAY BE considering coming to linux know wtf GPL is? No they dont, nor do they care.. they were, and are sold on M$, just as they will be sold on the 'name thing' with redhat (if redhat is successful), you all can argue, piss, bitch and moan, but if it gets to the point that (number is fake) 20 million linux users out of 21 million use 'Official Redhat Linux', what are most apps going to be codded to, whether proprietary or not. (redhat if you didnt know the answer). Even the apps that arent, but have rpm's -- you say 'they can just dld and rpm -ahuesacuge90a file.rpm, and boom it's installed - you think its that easy? you think people do that kind of thing? lets see..
.rpm?
You are either blind, ignorant or just
not everyone knows, understands, or gives a f*ck about this thing called GPL/GNU (im not saying im one of those people) -- but you, and others like you act as if everyperson big and small, young and old around the entire planet are aware of, and understand the meaning of terms such as 'GPL, GNU, FREESOFTWARE (your version, you know the -not beer- but
*RING*
*RING*
hello?
hey mom it's your son..
what do you need?
mom do you know what linux is?
something to do with that unix stuff
that you do right?
yah, and i was wondering what is GPL?
GTL?
no mom GPL - 'pee' as in PETER.
oh no, no idea..
do you know where i can get the latest
quit it, you know i dont know anything
you are talking about!!
im sorry mom, tell me though, how do you
get the latest and greatest software?
i buy it, put the cd in the drive and it
installs!
thanks mom.
you see, my mom isnt 'dumb' or 'stupid', she is actually quite brilliant.. she writes books, and poetry and does art.. ALL ON THE COMPUTER!! no shit. and she dont know GPL! or RPM!
i doubt you will even see my point, because most of you where blinders, (you know those things on the bridle of a horse that cover the perifial(sp?) vision) you need to push them off, take a look around.. every computer user is a developer, a h4q3r, or ever technical, not even enough to understand all the things you say here.
Well I'm sure you, i, and most of slashdot do understand this.. but does joe blow surfer? the new guy migrating from windows? What about the MFC developer that is considering developing unix apps and wants a good IDE.. are you saying none of this helps red hat sell more of that 'official red hat linux' ?? It's no secret that geeks always have and probably always will understand more than the 'normal' people out there..
You cant fix a problem by running from it. Thoughts similar to yours have indeed crossed my mind more than enough times. But you have to think.. who is this helping.. 'me' .. if that's the kind of person you are... then you've already doing what the gov wants of you.. the 'me' 'i' and 'mine' thing.. nothing gets accomplished thinking in that manner.. i work with people at work (yah its true) .. some are resigning because of things they dont like.. most people are in agreement of the samethings.. instead of ALL of them getting to gether to say what they feel.. instead 1 or 2 on an individual basis tells the boss/team leader off.. and nothing is accomplished.. its the sameway for people as a nation (the us).. you cant run.. like the previous poster said.. it isnt any better elsewhere.. (just looks greener on the other side) .. what this country needs -imo- is a revolution.. the people to stand.. and shout in one unified voice..
'to each his own' - right.. =)
-sorry this is off topic for the patent, but on topic for this individual.-
Well yes, how else do you make a 'healthy' society?
no more bomb making instructions, no more chemistry in high school (hell chem is worse that inet instructions), no more physics.. lets see, oh yah.. no more learning history (to much violence in the past).. hell at this rate we should be bonified government zombies in just a few years!
"If you don't like what he says, then don't listen to it."
.. delete it, ignore it .. whatever. This isnt the case miguel's words are echoing for a community of developers, and to folks that dont know linux, gnome or KDE in their eyes KDE isnt an option.. such as what one of the other posters said about time mag in that they werent trying linux until gnome 1.0 was released as if there were no other options. Why? maybe they didnt know about KDE, or maybe they did and what they knew was the FUD miguel had been preaching and came to the conclusion that linux wasnt worth trying until it had a viable desktop (GNOME). That is the idea makka dislikes. You dont 'ignore' these types of issues. If the people that first landed in america years age chose to 'ignore' the things they didnt like then there would have never been a civil war! since you may not be american!. Better yet.. if linus/rms just 'ignored' the things they didnt like (no free unix for him, or the free software issues) then there would be no GNU or LINUX.. so friend, telling folks to just ignore what they dislike isnt at all a way of makeing things better..
I beg to differ with your argument to the previous poster, if miguel had writtin him an email with his opinion, and makkah didnt like it, then yes
- my grammar sucks, and so does my speling -
if you read that entire post with the 'salary brag' as you call it IN CONTEXT to what the post was saying and all you got out of it was me 'bragging' and being an 'arogant jerk' your not a very bright fellow are you? do you really need the point of the post drawn out to you with a coloring book and crayons? Would i like to see the same happen to GNOME as did the old football jerk offs? yah i would if they dont stop their damn bashing. Yes i say 'their' and 'them' because miguel speaks for the whole development effort. Competition is GREAT im all for it, but not at the cost of bashing someone's efforts.. im sorry you are to ignorant to read more into my posts, but i do not, and will never appove of people overlooking the fact that there are REAL people that are developing KDE, not robots trained but people with hearts that have just as much passion and caring about what they do as the GNOME zealots.. its bs.
lemme guess all you got out of this is 'i wanna see gnome die' right? Re-read it now.
That's their 'freedom'. They are 'free' to do whatever the heck they feel like that includes, bashing, spreading fud, maiming, beating, cursing, drinking beer, drugs, bed wetting.. whatever someone tells them is cool.
/ran/ linux.. does that mean you dont run it anymore? thats a real shame! what made you stop? Im not gonna bad mouth you for leaving linux that is your 'choice' and 'freedom', anyone telling you differnt are once again contradicting the same thing they continue to preach.
You said you're ashamed you ever
You have a point, they dont even know the name of their 'OS'. Heck they cant see beyond their little imaginative worlds that they've created to even know what it is they're fighting for. Me? i dont run linux, i think its a gay little toy. - hey look ma, i spoke my opinion. Anyways, you are so right!!!!!!!!!!
I've read quite a few of miguels articles.. i really thought this BS talking was over. They're friends now right? Working together for KDE / GNOME integration? hah. Every time miguel gets to talk to the public he has his own 'opinion' about KDE.. the article/press release is about GNOME.. why dont he just talk about GNOME? Why does he have to butt in his negative $0.02 about KDE? .. i've been out of highschool for 10 years now.. but i can think back and remember jocks, and preppies talking down cause of what clothes i wore, or how i talked, or who i hung out with.. was this also to be praised? 'THE JOCKS RULE, THEY HAVE AN OPINION IM A LOSER AND CAN SAY IT' yes that is so right huh? Wow look.. its 10 years later im making 100k a year and they're working at gas stations (yes ive seen them there pumping gas).. so how does this work with the topic? Keep bashing KDE everytime your asked to do a press release/article.. keep on slamming, one day you're going to turn around.. and wonder how come you failed. You'll think.. but i was popular! people cheered me on! then it'll hit you.. damn it was just an image.. an outward appearance. Keep on talking smack about KDE, but you should be wary of it.. at the least when 'users' try to switch and get frustrated with GNOME they'll go to KDE where they feel at home, so in that you only cut your own gnomey throat.. but think of worst case.. you belittle and FUD KDE so that no new person tries it first and they try gnome.. uh oh, it dont work like what they're used to.. they get upset, dump linux all together and go back to win9x with an awful taste in their mouth.. now you've not only cut your own throat, but you've cut linux's too.. All because miguel is such a great guy that can speak his mind right.. er OPINIONS not facts or anything else but biased opinions. *shrug* you can only kick a dog so much until it turns on you.
I've read all these posts concerning the article, applauding miguel on his ability to speak his mind.. that is such a great thing eh? To have an opinion such as his and be able to speak it. Forget about who it hurts and what damage it does to both KDE and GNOME projects. This is what you all call 'a good thing' right? heh. if we go off of that and believe it, then really i think you're cutting your own throats (the gnome folks)
Please excuse my malformed sentenses, mispelling and any other grammar errors. thank you =)
"Counterpoint: Spark plugs make up less than 1% of a car -- but try driving without them"
That's nice. Do you also tell your pals when they ask you what kind of car you got by the name of your spark plug? such as 'champion' ? I didn't think so.
Yep, you can log right out and be an AC..
I wonder, with rob's idea that if a moderator has moderated and then posts all moderation done by that moderator is 'undone'.. what is to stop that moderator from moderating then logging out, posting as an AC, OR logging into his/her spare account to do their posting.. does he have some kind of way to prevent this?
Ah come on you guys/gals gripin.. haven't we seen enough flamin bashin? maybe they're not all funny .. but I'd wager there all funny but to different people... it's nice to see everyone taking atleast one day to sit back and remember they're human =) smile, just kick back and laugh a bit.. if it aint funny to you.. then smile that it's making someone else happy.. !@
ah well im in a good mood today..
yes in your opinion it does..
one fact though, 10 of those 'things' clustered
would smoke the pants off your alpha.
I couldn't agree more. Everyone here seems to have a different opinion.. most of which contradict the following day.. it would be really neat to have 2, let us know how it goes. =)
'Besides, who can resist having their favorite colored computer sitting on their desk to enjoy looking at?'
Well now that all depends, i think a pink iMac running linuxPPC, and some wacky color GTK+GNOME/E theme stuff... well.. you know =)
'and when they run across the 1883123 legal highs'
Is that number acurate jewl? =)
'Icaza claimed GNOME was just as good as windows'
This isn't a GNOME knock, it's wake the hell up... now to us geeks.. we may see something different here.. so that GNOME is better.. but users? hell.. to a user Windows incompasses(sp?) the OS, the GUI and the applications.. that said.. GNOME doesnt touch it.. granted it's coming along fast and great.. but from a USER standpoint that quote is BS.
Think about it.. lil user sees 'better than windows' all this gui and stuff.. so they go get it.. find out suree its pretty and got a great foundation.. but it sure isnt what they're used to, windows may crash alot.. but it is more or less complete.. and offers alot to the 'user'... you all should take a moment and look at things from a user standpoint.. different world out there.
Im not belittling gnome.. im just sayin a little modesty or something would be better... blatently saying something to the media that isnt thoroughly true is the samething another company does.. it gets people's hopes up for something new, improved and better.. only to get it and be let down once again.. only difference here is the user isnt paying $$$ for the let down.. and i for one care about the people, i care about their experience with what they use.. first impressions are lasting!
Just my thoughts..
---/disclaimer/-------------------
i am not a writer, or speler =)
----------------------------------
Whine... and it's truely funny too.. looky here:
..and im willing to wager that he/she would expect people to PAY for that software that he writes comercially and provides on both unix and win* ... yet he dont feel he should pay another company that wants money for a product they make...
'b) I don't give a [bad word] if Troll Tech emloyees starve, there are far better causes to contribute your hard earned cash'
Isn't that mean? Poor troll kids... but on a more serious note.. this guy/gal is quite the joker.. really funny.. see QPL allows him to make FREE software.. but if he wants to make comercial/proprietary software, he has to pay X$ to Troll tech... cant have that though.. from what i get out of his/her 'rant' looks to me as though he WANTS to make comercial/closed source/proprietary software.. ( you all should be against that right?)
What ever makes you the most money without you having to spend money right? Double standards suck..