That's already been a law for years in many places. Though you don't process someone for "receiving stolen goods" unless they knowingly received stolen goods. And if they knew, obviously they are not going to report it. So, it doesn't really help if the recyclers are crooked and find a way to break the law as well.
Just like Interstate purchase tax laws shouldn't be necessary because most states that consider it taxable already require you to keep records and report all Internet purchases on your tax return. Yeah... right...
Then still a good piece of evidence - just for the opposite side. If they didn't object to a pinball machine it's going to be pretty hard to convince anyone a slot machine isn't a similar product.
Not to mention apparently WB re-licensed the rights to video games (which EA had for a while) - so their argument that "they did not include any grant of exploitations such as electronic or digital rights, rights in media yet to be devised or other intangibles such as rights in services" is already bogus. Sounds like WB is going to win this one...
And that pinball game was probably licensed by the Estate and not WB.
In fact that might be a good piece of evidence for the case. The question will be is a slot machine merchandise or a gaming/entertainment experience? Since I'm pretty sure the point of using that wording is that they were NOT giving the rights to make video games, etc to WB as well...
No, but privacy laws would generally prohibit Pandora giving this data to anyone unless you agreed to it (usually via a giant unreadable TOS, but still, they need to go through the motions first...)
Well, that's not really the issue here. As far as I know artists already know how many times they are streamed, since they get royalties based on that.
The point of this article is she wanted demographic information (geographical region, age, etc) and assuming Pandora didn't include that in her royalty contract, there's just no reason she should feel entitled to it.
Yes, this is the core of it. Did her contract include a right to this data (and did the TOS for the Pandora use include the fact their data could be used for this)? Then she should get it. If it didn't she shouldn't get it.
I'm sure (after whatever term expires) she can attempt to renegotiate the contract with Pandora. But good luck, I seriously doubt they are interested in changing their TOS and negotiating a unique contract with an unknown cellist that makes up about 0.0000000000001% of their streaming.
Yeah, bullshit HER data. I'm sure the data she gets on streams is much more accurate than any data on how many people heard a broadcast (which I would guess is near zero for a cellist) and still more interesting than CD sales data (since it tells her how many times each song has been played, not simply purchased).
If she wants to figure out her audience she can do it herself rather than try to demand a content provider invade anyone's privacy...
Wasn't FF11 online only? I think MS can still sort of "claim" their requirement stands since all single player content is still playable without install;)
But yeah I think the point stands that the original comment I replied to is wrong, and any replies so far have been either completely incorrect or trying to reference a single irrelevant exception:)
Yeah, read my post, it doesn't include online/multiplayer features. But I suppose you're right that it would effectively be an exception if an MMORPG were sold on disc, as there would be no useful single player functionality...
Xbox 360 installations are basically all or nothing. There is NO "install" required for an Xbox 360 disc. But if you choose to optionally install the disc contents to the HDD it pretty much installs everything (so for example, FF13 would take about 18GB HDD).
The games are not required to run without HDD support for DLC or online play, though, just the basic single player/offline mode (which may exclude a LOT of functionality for some games). But it is an MS requirement that games function with a 4GB flash (though you may have to get another one if yours is full, of course).
So you either are not talking about the Xbox 360 (I don't believe the PS3 has this requirement) or you didn't have enough space on a flash unit.
Maybe you should Google those first - they are ancient, I'm talking about the Nintendo 64 vs the Playstation and Dreamcast.
Anyway, there really isn't any need to debate this, it's a fact that the PS and DC had orders of magnitude more piracy than the N64.
When you can buy CDs for about $0.10 each and download and trivially download and burn an ISO off of the Internet, that's just the way things go. Simple mod involving a soldering iron and a few wires for the PS, and no mod even required for the DC. Definitely not any extra expensive hardware to buy. The N64 copiers, on the other hand, were $$ and a pain in the ass to use.
and consoles even require significant portions of many games to be installed to the hard drive first.
That's just not true. All Xbox 360 DVD-based games are required to run with minimal installation (and minimal patch size - though DLC is different, of course), so they will run even on systems with 4GB flash instead of an HDD. More recently they MS added support for installing the full game to HDD (which does make a big difference in load times) but it it's definitely not *required*.
As for EEPROM-based cartridges, it's about cost. Materials for 9GB DVD is under $0.30. Manufacturing an 8GB cart would be somewhere between $5-10 to make (given 4GB 3DS carts are estimated at $3-5). That is a HUGE difference in margin when you sell a couple million of them. Even Nintendo gave up on the carts for the GC an Wii since it would be insane to leave that money on the table.
Do you know (no matter what Nintendo tells people) what the *biggest* advantage to carts was over CDs/DVDs? Lack of piracy. But eventually Nintendo realized the cost of piracy was well under the cost difference from switching to optical media, so they did.
How do you define "leader in PC game DRM" here? I cannot find any statistics on what DRM-method is the most used one
The SecureROM you are thinking of is physical copy protection. Steam is DRM of digital downloads. DRM != copy protection, though it may be a component of it. Other examples are Battle.net, EA Origin, Games for Windows Live, (and SecureROM with extensions for online DRM, but it's not that popular). Anyway, I'm talking combined digital distribution service with DRM, which would be the point of a Steam console.
They actually run BSD. If they used Linux the manufacturers would be bound by the GPL, but with BSD there is no such a thing.
Oh, really? How many TVs and BD players have you written code for? I know through personal experience that LG, Samsung, Sony, Vizio, Toshiba, Sharp, Philips, Mitsubishi, and almost all of the small/rebranded companies (Oppo, Sanyo, Magnavox, etc) use Linux for their TVs and BD players. Also, Boxee, Roku, WD, and most other streaming devices and STBs. Panasonic is the only one I know of using BSD on *some* of its TVs (and Linux on others, for whatever reason). And as far as Linux, they are bound by the GPL, you can get the kernel source (just not proprietary drivers implemented as modules - same as Nvidia PC drivers, etc). In fact, I have also written software for the PS3 and Xbox 360 - of course, neither of them run Linux, but I do have a fair bit of perspective on game console development as well.
But you're completely ignoring the fact that Valve already DOES have significant market share, a distribution channel of their own, marketing brand, developer outreach, training and all that.
Wait, you are going from arguing against my statement that Steam is already the market leader in PC DRM digital downloads, to arguing that *is* the case? So, are you trying to make a point or just be contrarian? Because you have already stated several things that are blatantly false, here... I think a bit more research might have been in order before trying to correct me.
Anyway, yes, I understand they are big in the PC business (which is what I said!), but the current console players (Sony, Microsoft, and Nintendo) are in another league, and as everyone knows they sunk billions of dollars into their console businesses before they were able to become profitable. Not to mention manufacturing, retail distribution (a console is a physical item, you can't download it of course), quality control (those other three employ armies of QA testers to make sure the games work on their consoles - on the PC it's entirely up to the developer), and other areas. I just don't think Valve has that kind of cash or interest in that level of risk.
But who knows, I'd love to see more competition, I just don't want to see them fail hard...
Why do people care what the OS of a Valve game console is if it's going to be locked down with DRM like any other console? (and given they are the current leader in PC game DRM, that's a given).
Not sure if many people realize it, but almost every single networked BD player made in the last 5 years runs Linux. Same with almost all networked TVs and set-top boxes. And while that's great for Linux development and reducing manufacturer licensing costs, it really doesn't change anything for the end user.
The real question for this hypothetical console is, why will major developers want to support it? It's going to have to have significant market share and lower licensing costs (and probably more gross revenue going to the developer) since in the end for a developer it's a business. And I just have a hard time believing Valve is going to be willing to put the literal *billions* of dollars into building and marketing a brand, distribution channels, developer outreach, training, etc that would be required to get that market share. There is good reason there are only 3 surviving consoles in the market...
Well, you were at some point talking about undergraduate studies, as well:
Then again I don't know anyone who studied those fields and stopped before getting a MSc.
Gotta get a bachelor's before continuing on to get a masters, and stopping would imply just a bachelor's in the field which was my point...
But sure, definitely if you get a graduate degree you're much more likely to do research. Still, I know a chemistry PhD who is a drug sales rep (probably making more than her MD husband) and a physics PhD who is a venture capitalist & former CEO. And I work with a few PhDs - one has his in CS, another in Aero Eng. and another in Math, but they are all software engineers/architects. Still have plenty of counter examples;)
Higher Education is just that Higher Education. It is not Trade School Skill Boot Camp so you can regurgitate the latest buzzwords MS and the rest of their ilk cram down managers throats.
Exactly! In hindsight my biggest college regret (and strongest recommendation to college students) was not having enough time to take more electives completely unrelated to my major.
And while I'm sure most of the major-required classes benefited my career background in some way, many of them really aren't that relevant to what I do. And work isn't everything - engineering college students should really try to go take a couple semesters of Chinese, medieval history, psychology, creative writing, whatever. They will make you a much more well rounded and interesting person in *life*, and occasionally might even be more useful to you at work, you never know...
Seriously? Well I know many people who majored in these and others and ended up as programmers/software engineers, lawyers, MBAs (corporate and I-banking), and a few MDs. One chem major ended up playing minor league baseball before going to med school. And a physics major is is now an CG animator.
I'd go as far as saying the majority (as in more than half) graduating with those undergraduate degrees don't end up going on to academia/research, and that's from a school ranked #1 in Physics and #2 in Math programs in the US. Plenty do, but if "most" is defined as the majority I'd say the GP has a point.
Yep, these are senior executives with a thousand or more people reporting to them who spend most of their time in meetings. The details of computer science or engineering classes they took in college 30 years ago are pretty much irrelevant to their current jobs.
And it's especially true in this case, as personal computers were in their infancy when they were in college, anyway. Trying to compare two programs based on what they are *today* makes no sense when they graduated in the 80's.
And his claim was that it would cost an extra $8M a year to cover additional health care expenses - for a ~$3B a year company.
So, sure, $8M is $8M, it is an expense. But it would have been going towards keeping his workers healthy, whereas a settlement over SMS spam could be a MUCH larger expense mostly going to a bunch of lawyers.
Daily Show (as usual) had the best commentary on it... (skip to around 3:50 for the Papa John's bit)...
Slashdot Mirror
That's easy, just set the temperature of the point to 350K and you're done.
Except it's already been the law in California for years and so clearly has not been a reasonable solution...
That's already been a law for years in many places. Though you don't process someone for "receiving stolen goods" unless they knowingly received stolen goods. And if they knew, obviously they are not going to report it. So, it doesn't really help if the recyclers are crooked and find a way to break the law as well.
Just like Interstate purchase tax laws shouldn't be necessary because most states that consider it taxable already require you to keep records and report all Internet purchases on your tax return. Yeah... right...
Then still a good piece of evidence - just for the opposite side. If they didn't object to a pinball machine it's going to be pretty hard to convince anyone a slot machine isn't a similar product.
Not to mention apparently WB re-licensed the rights to video games (which EA had for a while) - so their argument that "they did not include any grant of exploitations such as electronic or digital rights, rights in media yet to be devised or other intangibles such as rights in services" is already bogus. Sounds like WB is going to win this one...
And that pinball game was probably licensed by the Estate and not WB.
In fact that might be a good piece of evidence for the case. The question will be is a slot machine merchandise or a gaming/entertainment experience? Since I'm pretty sure the point of using that wording is that they were NOT giving the rights to make video games, etc to WB as well...
No, but privacy laws would generally prohibit Pandora giving this data to anyone unless you agreed to it (usually via a giant unreadable TOS, but still, they need to go through the motions first...)
Well, that's not really the issue here. As far as I know artists already know how many times they are streamed, since they get royalties based on that.
The point of this article is she wanted demographic information (geographical region, age, etc) and assuming Pandora didn't include that in her royalty contract, there's just no reason she should feel entitled to it.
Yes, this is the core of it. Did her contract include a right to this data (and did the TOS for the Pandora use include the fact their data could be used for this)? Then she should get it. If it didn't she shouldn't get it.
I'm sure (after whatever term expires) she can attempt to renegotiate the contract with Pandora. But good luck, I seriously doubt they are interested in changing their TOS and negotiating a unique contract with an unknown cellist that makes up about 0.0000000000001% of their streaming.
That's actually one of the more ironically absurd reasons I have heard against Linux adoption.
"Computer are bad for computer gaming, so I use a PS3 on my TV. But man I need to watch TV shows on a computer and not the PS3 on my TV!"
Yeah, bullshit HER data. I'm sure the data she gets on streams is much more accurate than any data on how many people heard a broadcast (which I would guess is near zero for a cellist) and still more interesting than CD sales data (since it tells her how many times each song has been played, not simply purchased).
If she wants to figure out her audience she can do it herself rather than try to demand a content provider invade anyone's privacy...
Wasn't FF11 online only? I think MS can still sort of "claim" their requirement stands since all single player content is still playable without install ;)
But yeah I think the point stands that the original comment I replied to is wrong, and any replies so far have been either completely incorrect or trying to reference a single irrelevant exception :)
Yeah, read my post, it doesn't include online/multiplayer features. But I suppose you're right that it would effectively be an exception if an MMORPG were sold on disc, as there would be no useful single player functionality...
Xbox 360 installations are basically all or nothing. There is NO "install" required for an Xbox 360 disc. But if you choose to optionally install the disc contents to the HDD it pretty much installs everything (so for example, FF13 would take about 18GB HDD).
The games are not required to run without HDD support for DLC or online play, though, just the basic single player/offline mode (which may exclude a LOT of functionality for some games). But it is an MS requirement that games function with a 4GB flash (though you may have to get another one if yours is full, of course).
So you either are not talking about the Xbox 360 (I don't believe the PS3 has this requirement) or you didn't have enough space on a flash unit.
Maybe you should Google those first - they are ancient, I'm talking about the Nintendo 64 vs the Playstation and Dreamcast.
Anyway, there really isn't any need to debate this, it's a fact that the PS and DC had orders of magnitude more piracy than the N64.
When you can buy CDs for about $0.10 each and download and trivially download and burn an ISO off of the Internet, that's just the way things go. Simple mod involving a soldering iron and a few wires for the PS, and no mod even required for the DC. Definitely not any extra expensive hardware to buy. The N64 copiers, on the other hand, were $$ and a pain in the ass to use.
and consoles even require significant portions of many games to be installed to the hard drive first.
That's just not true. All Xbox 360 DVD-based games are required to run with minimal installation (and minimal patch size - though DLC is different, of course), so they will run even on systems with 4GB flash instead of an HDD. More recently they MS added support for installing the full game to HDD (which does make a big difference in load times) but it it's definitely not *required*.
As for EEPROM-based cartridges, it's about cost. Materials for 9GB DVD is under $0.30. Manufacturing an 8GB cart would be somewhere between $5-10 to make (given 4GB 3DS carts are estimated at $3-5). That is a HUGE difference in margin when you sell a couple million of them. Even Nintendo gave up on the carts for the GC an Wii since it would be insane to leave that money on the table.
Do you know (no matter what Nintendo tells people) what the *biggest* advantage to carts was over CDs/DVDs? Lack of piracy. But eventually Nintendo realized the cost of piracy was well under the cost difference from switching to optical media, so they did.
How do you define "leader in PC game DRM" here? I cannot find any statistics on what DRM-method is the most used one
The SecureROM you are thinking of is physical copy protection. Steam is DRM of digital downloads. DRM != copy protection, though it may be a component of it. Other examples are Battle.net, EA Origin, Games for Windows Live, (and SecureROM with extensions for online DRM, but it's not that popular). Anyway, I'm talking combined digital distribution service with DRM, which would be the point of a Steam console.
They actually run BSD. If they used Linux the manufacturers would be bound by the GPL, but with BSD there is no such a thing.
Oh, really? How many TVs and BD players have you written code for? I know through personal experience that LG, Samsung, Sony, Vizio, Toshiba, Sharp, Philips, Mitsubishi, and almost all of the small/rebranded companies (Oppo, Sanyo, Magnavox, etc) use Linux for their TVs and BD players. Also, Boxee, Roku, WD, and most other streaming devices and STBs. Panasonic is the only one I know of using BSD on *some* of its TVs (and Linux on others, for whatever reason). And as far as Linux, they are bound by the GPL, you can get the kernel source (just not proprietary drivers implemented as modules - same as Nvidia PC drivers, etc). In fact, I have also written software for the PS3 and Xbox 360 - of course, neither of them run Linux, but I do have a fair bit of perspective on game console development as well.
But you're completely ignoring the fact that Valve already DOES have significant market share, a distribution channel of their own, marketing brand, developer outreach, training and all that.
Wait, you are going from arguing against my statement that Steam is already the market leader in PC DRM digital downloads, to arguing that *is* the case? So, are you trying to make a point or just be contrarian? Because you have already stated several things that are blatantly false, here... I think a bit more research might have been in order before trying to correct me.
Anyway, yes, I understand they are big in the PC business (which is what I said!), but the current console players (Sony, Microsoft, and Nintendo) are in another league, and as everyone knows they sunk billions of dollars into their console businesses before they were able to become profitable. Not to mention manufacturing, retail distribution (a console is a physical item, you can't download it of course), quality control (those other three employ armies of QA testers to make sure the games work on their consoles - on the PC it's entirely up to the developer), and other areas. I just don't think Valve has that kind of cash or interest in that level of risk.
But who knows, I'd love to see more competition, I just don't want to see them fail hard...
Why do people care what the OS of a Valve game console is if it's going to be locked down with DRM like any other console? (and given they are the current leader in PC game DRM, that's a given).
Not sure if many people realize it, but almost every single networked BD player made in the last 5 years runs Linux. Same with almost all networked TVs and set-top boxes. And while that's great for Linux development and reducing manufacturer licensing costs, it really doesn't change anything for the end user.
The real question for this hypothetical console is, why will major developers want to support it? It's going to have to have significant market share and lower licensing costs (and probably more gross revenue going to the developer) since in the end for a developer it's a business. And I just have a hard time believing Valve is going to be willing to put the literal *billions* of dollars into building and marketing a brand, distribution channels, developer outreach, training, etc that would be required to get that market share. There is good reason there are only 3 surviving consoles in the market...
Well, you were at some point talking about undergraduate studies, as well:
Then again I don't know anyone who studied those fields and stopped before getting a MSc.
Gotta get a bachelor's before continuing on to get a masters, and stopping would imply just a bachelor's in the field which was my point...
But sure, definitely if you get a graduate degree you're much more likely to do research. Still, I know a chemistry PhD who is a drug sales rep (probably making more than her MD husband) and a physics PhD who is a venture capitalist & former CEO. And I work with a few PhDs - one has his in CS, another in Aero Eng. and another in Math, but they are all software engineers/architects. Still have plenty of counter examples ;)
Higher Education is just that Higher Education. It is not Trade School Skill Boot Camp so you can regurgitate the latest buzzwords MS and the rest of their ilk cram down managers throats.
Exactly! In hindsight my biggest college regret (and strongest recommendation to college students) was not having enough time to take more electives completely unrelated to my major.
And while I'm sure most of the major-required classes benefited my career background in some way, many of them really aren't that relevant to what I do. And work isn't everything - engineering college students should really try to go take a couple semesters of Chinese, medieval history, psychology, creative writing, whatever. They will make you a much more well rounded and interesting person in *life*, and occasionally might even be more useful to you at work, you never know...
Seriously? Well I know many people who majored in these and others and ended up as programmers/software engineers, lawyers, MBAs (corporate and I-banking), and a few MDs. One chem major ended up playing minor league baseball before going to med school. And a physics major is is now an CG animator.
I'd go as far as saying the majority (as in more than half) graduating with those undergraduate degrees don't end up going on to academia/research, and that's from a school ranked #1 in Physics and #2 in Math programs in the US. Plenty do, but if "most" is defined as the majority I'd say the GP has a point.
Yep, these are senior executives with a thousand or more people reporting to them who spend most of their time in meetings. The details of computer science or engineering classes they took in college 30 years ago are pretty much irrelevant to their current jobs.
And it's especially true in this case, as personal computers were in their infancy when they were in college, anyway. Trying to compare two programs based on what they are *today* makes no sense when they graduated in the 80's.
Maybe because he co-founded Apple and wants to see it succeed? How is there anything wrong with that?
And if that's not good enough he also owns a bunch of Apple stock, which would be plenty of reason to be worried about stagnation, as well...
And his claim was that it would cost an extra $8M a year to cover additional health care expenses - for a ~$3B a year company.
So, sure, $8M is $8M, it is an expense. But it would have been going towards keeping his workers healthy, whereas a settlement over SMS spam could be a MUCH larger expense mostly going to a bunch of lawyers.
Daily Show (as usual) had the best commentary on it... (skip to around 3:50 for the Papa John's bit)...
http://www.thedailyshow.com/watch/tue-november-13-2012/post-democalyptic-world---whine-country
Yeah, and try to find a single non-Apple app with "Apple" in the title...
In fact, there are several memory monitoring apps (ex: Memory Doctor) in the store that tell you information about RAM usage.
If Ravensburger went after them they'd get shot down faster than Sun's moronic C&Ds against all of the coffee shops with "java" in their domain.
If it's a game involving remembering things, yes, it's probably relevant, that's what trademarks are for. Otherwise, it's bulltshit.