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Novell Linux Business Spikes Since Microsoft Deal
StonyandCher writes "Novell's divisive deal with Microsoft has apparently resulted in some financial success for the company. PC World is now reporting that the company's Linux business has risen about 250% since the deal was announced last November. From the article: '[Novell director of marketing Justin Steinman] said part of its growth was directly related to the Microsoft deal, adding that Novell has billed more than US$100 million in business through its Microsoft relationship. He added that the growth was also due to the halo effect of the arrangement. "When we're out there competing with Red Hat, [our salespeople] are saying, 'Our Linux is recommended by Microsoft,' and customers that already have a Windows investment say it seems to make sense to pick the Linux that works with Windows."'"
It could be people are moving their business from SCO to Novell ;)
I don't know how much novell charges for their Linux but its got to be less than $650 per seat.
liqbase
If an officer ever threatens to taze you, say you have a pacemaker.
Translation 1:
Wow! That "embrace" part was great, and this "extend" phase is fantastic! I wonder what's next?
Translation 2:
Wow! These guards are great - they gave me a delicious meal, and now they're taking me out to meet their "squad!" Wonder why they want me blindfolded?
More seriously: I haven't worked with Novell stuff since this deal was announced. Anyone have any insight as to how much easier it really is to integrate with Microsoft stuff?
If this isnt a PR pushed document, I dont know what is.... Of course Novell's business increased simply due to the fact of M$ handing out vouchers to people which M$ then ends up paying for when they give it to someone. What they would like to give the impression is that this makes people feel safe, so they go this route instead of the unsafe route with RedHat. You will also notice that they did not point out the Redhat had an amazing quarter as well with them attributing it to botched Vista rollout.... Hm... I wonder why they felt compelled to release this press release now?? :-)
They went from selling 2 to selling 7. Whoo!
The Aussie PC World has a current article about Red Hat's profits which are also up heavily since last year.
So maybe Novell and Red Hat's recent success is independent of the MS deal.
Free the Quark 3 from asymptotic confinement! Bring your charm! Don't get down! All colours and flavours welcome!
They've had a huge financial gain from Microsoft's wallet that translated directly. Now not only do the numbers look good but they can easily point and say that the transaction resulted in greater numbers in the sales department. It is a "feel good" story to justify more than anything else. I'm still waiting for the man to step out from behind the curtain and admit that it is all a sham and then I can click my heels and say, "Home, home, home."
"So long and thanks for all the fish."
"[our salespeople] are saying, 'Our Linux is recommended by Microsoft,'"
Wow from salesman I've heard "this knife is made of adamantium" "This vacuum cleaner has 70 year warranty" but that one takes the cake.
So lets say "I need one and only one Operating System to be an upgrade from XP. I already know Vista isn't doing that well. And now u say that Linux is recommended by Microsoft". Should i call Microsoft to ask why they made a 6 bilion dolar OS if the recommend another?
Wal Mart going to Novell is enough to spike the numbers 250%. Red Hat had a solid quarter even with the drag of JBoss. Maybe the increase has a lot to do with Linux moving past the "Replace expensive proprietary Unix Phase" where hardware costs in addition to software costs made the savings obvious to pin head bosses, and is now moving into the "Replace hard to manage and support Windows phase" where the initial cost advantage is lower and required the establishment and training of quality Linux administrators? Unix replacement phase created the staff and cost advantages to allow for easier justification of Windows replacement. The fact that Novell is up significantly from practically nothing, and Red Hat is growing solidly from a strong base, indicates deeper market penetration for Linux.
I'm confused at how Linux can work 'with' Windows. How do two OS'es work with each other...
I can only assume that they are actually refering to the fact that this is a Linux distribution being backed by MS, as opposed to 'working with Windows'.
My Beetle also works with my Porshe, as long as I don't try and drive both at the same time.
So playing whores for Microsoft *is* actually profitable. Surprise ?
Microsoft say their indemnity doesn't cover GPL3 software, perhaps someone from Novell can comment on that? Last I looked Windows interop is largely via Samba... Speaking of which, perhaps Novell are also in a position to comment on all the anti-GPL3 FUD we've recently been subjected to?
From the summary:
"customers that already have a Windows investment say it seems to make sense to pick the Linux that works with Windows."
Define "works with Windows".
Can speak TCP/IP? Yep, no problem. (I've met plenty of Windows-centric IT people who seem to think networking is some sort of black magic and two different operating systems cannot coexist on a network.)
Can see windows file shares and share files with Windows servers through SMB? Any distribution will do that.
Integrates perfectly with Active Directory, including applying group policies and user authentication? I'm not aware of any distribution which does all of that, though I'm sure you could handle the "user authentication" part easily enough as it's essentially LDAP+Kerberos.
Runs Windows applications? Well, there's Wine, but it's really more a case of "might run your windows application, might not - and if you want support for that application from the app vendor you're almost certainly wasting your time".
Integrates with other server applications such as Exchange and Sharepoint? I'm not aware of any Linux based solutions which do that, but even if there are it's really a function of software on top of the distribution, not the distribution itself.
Describe 'works with windows.' Are you having a cluster of mix OSs or is one managing the other?
You have to figure that should another desktop start to take over that MS would just buy them.
There are no loopholes. It's either legal or it's not.
- Make some "allies" and sign some "treaties"
- Let your "allies" help you carry out your "war" on the "enemy"
- Wipe out most everyone together with your "allies"
- Turn on your "allies" one by one without telling the others
- Wipe out your "allies" last when they are least suspecting it
Funny - Hitler had and Microsoft has the same basic plans. Just substitute "competitors" for "enemies" and "partners" for "allies".Truth is like the sun. You can shut it out for a time, but it ain't goin' away. - Elvis Presley (source: imdb.com)
Using pure marketing like that with clueless CIOs to make sales is going to backfire something fierce in the long term. As soon as there are any problems with compatibility they'll drop Novell and move back to Windows for whatever they were doing and it'll get counted as a win for Microsoft (cue the "xxxx switched from Linux to Windows!" tripe).
and I approve this Linux.
Power to the Penguin!
So would this make Novell the Jane Fonda or Neville Chamberlain of Linux distros?
He added that the growth was also due to the halo effect of the arrangement.
Maybe all the problems with Active Directory is what causes A.I. Rampancy
Businesses continue to look for better ways to spend their marketing and advertising dollars while their customer base continually grow more and more suspicious of every claim they make. Advertising apathy continues to dominate the individual consumer while it is surprisingly absent from corporate decision making. Word of mouth is still the number 1 force in individual consumer decision making and yet surprisingly absent from corporate decision making. All of the individuals here are asking good questions about how this news relates to them or how it affects them and blowing holes in the PR machine behind such statements. Meanwhile the corporate world is still believing everything they read.
It reminds me of something a writer friend of mine once said about the newspaper he works for. "We can't print it unless someone else said it. It doesn't have to be true. Someone just has to say it so we can quote it".
The individual consumer, who can apply logic and reason to their purchases have no use for anything that smells remotely like PR or marketing "untruths". Where as the corporate world has to rely on printed and published "facts". As my friend knows, those printed "facts" don't have to be true, they just have to be printed.
Thanks to Slashdot (and other web sites) our corporate decision makers can now print pages of individual consumer comments and introduce word of mouth to their decision making process. Well... they COULD, but articles like this kind of speak to the fact that they aren't. They obviously don't consider the voice of the individual as having any weight in the board room. Oh wait... we already knew that didn't we?
When you sell your soul to the devil you tend to make more money. Of course the price is eternal damnation. I guess Novell made their choice clear.
I for one welcome our new SuSE overlords.
No one ever went broke counting on the stupidity of the corporate manager.
Aah, change is good. -- Rafiki
Yeah, but it ain't easy. -- Simba
Of course MS says that it recommends Novells version of Linux, because now they make money off the people that are fed up with Windows problems, yes Novell benefits heavily, but MS has its very calculated reasons to be helpful at all. My father worked for Novell for over a decade and he used to get mad at me a kid when I hosed a machine trying out different distros of Linux, then Novell bought SUSE and he had to buy a four inch thick Linux programming bible! Well he moved back to Canada (where we are all from) cause he could not stand the politics and how nothing could be done in a highly profitable business unless you are someones family member or really good friend. I would still go with redhat because MS does not have a dirty hand in them and Redhat is firm against the ridiculous claim that 235 infringements (that MS can't seem to pin point) have been made by the open source community. Hey here is a thought, keep working on Netware, Netware 6 was really cool!
To see a few of my Android apps goto: www.hartwired.com
That's sounds to be wonderul. Mr.Gates had already declared that its a process of embrase and expand.
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Please remember that Novell offers much more than just the basic Linux stuff.
It offers a Novell client for windows, eDirectory, ZENworks, iFolder, iPrint, Groupwise etc, etc.
These are products targeted at managing Windows (and linux) workstations and servers but through a Linux server.
Novell products integrate seamlessly with Windows and they even (implicitly) solve many of the typical windows problems for you.
SLES on itself, however, does not offer a Windows advantage when compared to other distro's. It is the commercial closed source software that Novell offers that makes the advantage.
RedHat does not offer such services for Windows.
(Please note that I am just a Novell Open Workgroup Suite customer. http://www.novell.com/products/openworkgroupsuite/ )
I totally disagree. Novell does some things that I am not happy about, but they have leveraged tools like Yast to make cumbersome configuration activities much easier and more reliable. Working with a Microsoft domain is a great example -- unless you have a heavily customized AD, Yast makes it VERY easy to become a member of the domain and authenticate users. Red Hat has the capability though Kerberos, LDAP and Samba, but it's harder to set it up.
In the long term, Red Hat is going to need a tool like Yast as Linux continues to penetrate into other areas of business networks.
Conformity is the jailer of freedom and enemy of growth. -JFK
Most of the companies I've heard that are switching to Suse on desktop or server from MS Windows are doing it because they're still Novell shops, where Novell has been the way of doing things, and MS has been a necessary evil. Now that SLE[S/D] has a lot of built-in Novell goodness, these companies are buying up Suse like crazy. The Novell/MS deal may have triggered minor sales via advertising that Novell has a linux option, but I doubt any serious Novell admins would have been blind to that fact before the deal.
I have SUSE Enterprise Desktop at work (we are in MS Srv2003 world).
:).
It's very nice as a corporate desktop.
Pros:
It has connected to our Directory seamlessly during installation.
All network printers and shares are OK, with correct access rights.
Installation and driver support, IMO is the best among all Linuxen( ~xes?
The domain controller recognized it as a domain member and listed it as such.
Nice and laconic KDE (but the installation defaults to Gnome).
Slack-derived init scripts and layout (well, I personally like it more then Debian-derived one).
Cons:
It does not have text mode installation target.
Yast is absent (I really liked it in previous versions!).
Conclusion:
I like it!
Disclaimer:
I run at home two SUSE (old 10.0, non-enterprise one) servers for about 3 years.
Previously they were powered by SUSE 9.3 and before that by Slackware.
For business it was never about Open Source, FSF, GPL (1, 2, or bloody 3). No one who signs purchase orders is listening a "community"; they want good pricing but they also want a contract with someone they can compell to repair and someone who has $$ of their own to lose. This alliance between MS and Novell, no brainer that it was going to sell like hotcakes.
Now, watch the alliance hamper the adoption of GPL 3... If GPL 3 turns out to be enforaceble and MS/Novell stay clear big business will no doubt choose GPL 2.
So, please try defending the deal now, where it is clear Novell is actively FUDing against other distros and Microsoft is succeeding in the embrace part of the strategy.
If you want Linux's success go anything but Novell, if you want Novell's success and eventual dead + MS keeping the desktop monopoly go Novell, please, I don't want the apologists to ever say again that the deal was good for Linux, I am tired of reading BS.
Copyright infringement is "piracy" in the same way DRM is "consumer rape"
Speaking from a marketing perspective, this seems like boder line great marketing on Novell's part, border-line FUD. I would guess that quote started in the marketing department, got rewritten by the CEO to something a bit more honest, then went back to the marketing department where they changed a couple words back to give us that dumb "already works with Windows." For the first time, though, this whole Novell/MS thing makes sense to me from Novell's standpoint: get MS on your side, and knock down that whole "well, what about moving from Microsoft--that's going to be a pain in the butt" thing real quick. Saying 'works with Windows' doesn't really make any sense, which is a pretty clear indication that the marketing department wrote it (I'm in marketing--I have no clue how our products work (particularly compared to the competition); I doubt Novell's in that much better a position, at least with their low-level marketing grunts like me). I wouldn't call it FUD. I'd call it misinformed/misspeaking Marketing Dept. And I'd call Novell pretty smart for figuring out a way to get past one of the major obstacles for Linux adoption.
The deal may smell of rotten fish, but like it or not, Linux is getting market share. Yes, the money is flowing into M$ for now, but once there is a large enough base of Linux corporate users, their IT departments might feel more inclined to use other Linux distros now that they badgered Novell's customer service asking all the questions.
it's windows that must work with GNU/Linux.... it's the closed protocols that must operate with standards e not the other way around....
Given that differences between major Linux distributions are generally insubstantial, or else change slowly with time, this sudden upsurge in Novell business vs its competitors could plausibly be a dollar measure of fear, uncertainty and double (FUD).
Given that Microsoft has intimated that Linux infringes upon its patents, this legal limbo land stands to further delay Windows to Linux migration plans on a wholesale basis just as the threat from the SCO litigation has almost died.
"When we're out there competing with Red Hat, [our salespeople] are saying, 'Our Linux is recommended by Microsoft"
Gotta laugh at this one. I know the guy really means that Microsoft is saying the SUSE works better with Windows (which isn't necessarily true except in specific areas where they have produced some interoperability), but it doesn't read like that.
Anybody who can say that line with a straight face should dump being a Linux salesperson and go into stand-up.
Richard Steven Hack - This sig is TOO GODDAMN SHORT TO DO ANYTHING USEFUL WITH! MORONS!
So, ComputerWorld is now just repeating Novell's PR pitch like a parrot? Novell's business did NOT benefit from the deal.
My Linux - (L)ove (I)s (N)ever (U)tterly eXPensive
My company bought license(s) just to get the certificate from Microsoft. Not that legal is worried Microsoft would ever win a copyright/patent infringement suit against Linux or users of Linux, but more and more of our customers have been requesting we develop for Linux and we expect pressure from Microsoft and the BSA once we announce the move away from Windows. Having a nice little certificate from Microsoft and the new GPLv3 in our pocket provides a M.A.D. playing field.
It's all about PERCEPTION. Novell made a very smart, pragmatic BUSINESS decision. Business in America is unfortunately very often not about merit or ethics or ideals. Business is about perception, playing to emotion, speculation, MARKETING.
SuSE is no better or worse at Windows integration than Red Hat or Ubuntu or any other major distribution. Arguably, a purpose-built Linux server made independently of Novell or Microsoft tailored for such a purpose is probably superior to SuSE for such a task. Business managers, the ones who cut the cheques, don't operate on technical aspects at all. All things being equal (especially from a cost/savings perspective) PHBs are completely manipulated by marketing and related intangible factors.
First of all, the biggest market out there for Linux projects are in environments dominated by Microsoft. Novell can now say that their SuSE OS is the ONLY major distribution "endorsed" by Microsoft. We nerds that understand how Free software works KNOW that this is insignificant--at least for the time being. There isn't any concrete evidence that the Novell/Microsoft partnership is doing any concrete development and some sort of non-Free add-ons that enhance interoperability, and what cooperation MS IS doing (MONO, Silverlight) is pretty open and distribution-agnostic. That doesn't matter to PHBs--it's WAY over their heads. They just see the link and see it as good (just like "nobody got fired for buying an IBM" back when the PC came out--it made sense to PHBs to buy IBM PCs 'cause the "matched the mainframe").
Aside from the "Microsoft Approved" marketing angle and perceptions, there is speculation (FUD). If Microsoft decides to bring the patent submarine to the surface Novell is "safe". It is inferred that the partnership isn't just about "technical" interoperability but also "legal" interoperability.
Furthermore, there is an additional angle Novell can play on that doesn't even have to involve their relationship with Microsoft. A judge has ruled THEY OWN UNIX. If Novell decided to "pull a SCO" and you bought SLES then you've already paid your protection money and are safe.
This speculation is ridiculous to knowledgeable Linux specialists, but PHBs are ignorant about IT and in fact make every effort to know as little a possible about it, unless their business is all about it. The CEO of "Widgets, Inc" fills his brain with evetything to do with widgets and the global widget market, and how their widgets stack up against competitors, and how much they can reduce the costs of making widgets. IT is viewed simply as one of a large number of "cost centres"--the less expensive, less risky--and less TROUBLESOME--the better. You have to get down to middle-to-lower management levels within the IT dept. before it becomes more than that.
It's tough to compete against FUD because it is hard to quantify it in terms of dollars. Novell's competition has to undercut them by some monetary amount in initial investment and ongoing savings to a degree clients can live with the perceived increased risk--or else they have to offer concrete indemnification to defuse that perceived risk.
fuck you, Novell/SCO/M$
"director of marketing Justin Steinman said"
Hello? How is that news-worthy? This info comes from MARKETING director.
Over the last two weeks we ported a complex webapp to current RHEL and SLES in parallel. SLES feels like a much more modern product. RHEL felt like it hasn't advanced since RH 6.0. Configuration tools (nothing on RHEL compares to YAST), java compatibility (the RHEL required gcj/tomcat doesn't get along with sunjava/tomcat jars), yum vs. the suse updater, and numerous other little improvements.
Based on reputation, it was the opposite result from what we had expected.
why does this remind me to kids paying their lunch-money to bullies?
The MAFIAA is a bunch of mindless jerks who will be the first up against the wall when the revolution comes
Hot cash injection.......sounds dirty
We use both here equally. It is VERY true that the SUSE boxes are a lot simpler to integrate into our Active Directory. While all of the tools underneath are similar, SUSE has done a better job with the glue ware to make is very seamless.
Can you join a Red Hat (RHEL) box to the domain and have it work with Windows? Sure. Did Red Hat think of everything? No. Therefore, if you are using Red Hat, you DO have to do a bit more work to make everything just right.
If I'm targeting a mixed OS environment, I prefer to use SUSE over Red Hat... politics aside. It's just more polished (easier) with regards to enterprise level complexities. However, there is a market for Linux-only... and in those cases, it really doesn't matter which Linux you choose.
We have more customers running Red Hat (IMHO, due to reputation, not for technical reasons).
I say this is a time for bold moves. I say Linus should prohibit Novell from using the Linux trademark. Let them publish their shit on another name.
This move and this touting of how "grand" it was is unacceptable to this community. If Novell isnt willing to compete with other linux's on their own technical grounds (and, might I say, Suse is probably the WORST distro out there), then they shouldnt be able to use Linux as the trademark.
Linus, you should sink this fuckers.
NO SIG
wouldn't be very attractive if it didn't have benefits now would it?
I keed I keed.
Technically, this kind of stuff (protection against buffer overrun and fragmentation) is the role of the MMU (Memory Managing Unit), the part that translates between address of memory pointer, and actual physical addresses.
It's not the job of segment (which are partially application-controlled anyway).
68k had MMUs since 1982 (an external module for 68010) and 1984 (onboard MMU on 68020).
Whereas, Intel only introduced MMUs in 1986 for the i386. (The one on 286 didn't support the necessary function, hence the segment hacks).
Also, the 386 was a 32bits extension to the 16bit 286, which was a protected mode hack over the classical 16bit 8086 which it self is a hack made to be instruction set- and assembly- compatible with the historical 8bits 8080.
Whereas, the 68k was a new ISA designed to be the most clean as possible and the most forward planned (internal support for 32bits although the first where used on 16bit busses).
Todays 64bits processors, are just another extension over all this legacy and have some part of them which depends on decision made decades ago from the era of 8080.
Intel tried to break the legacy and propose a new clean Intanium 64bit ISA, but it didn't work because the ISA was too weird for the tools available at the time (VLIW) but mainly because it arrived at a moment where the market mostly consisted of a monoculture proprietary binary software. Thus hard to see code specially ported to the new ISA - and the old ISA being only emulated didn't run at a sufficient speed.
So, we're still drawing the same legacy behind. At least AMD tried to pull out a better architecture by eliminating some of the stupidiest things when in 64bits mode.
"Sufficiently advanced satire is indistinguishable from reality." - [Tips: 1DrYakQDKCQ6y52z6QbnkxHXAocMZJE61o ]
Some one said a lot of time ago: "Next Microsoft will be Microsoft"
Why? Coz they've hired a bunch of losers from Lucent to run their "global strategy" - sorry, outsourcing - business. Check out their executive bios and see for yourself.