I'm pretty sure I read earlier that MS claims patents over the OpenGL spec, wouldn't they be pulling out of the group so as to sue the group for patent infringment?
The article states that the attack started friday night inside MS, at like 8 or 9pm I think, wasn't it not until like 1am that it was really humming?? Wouldn't this timeline lead one to believe it could have started kicking inside MS first?
how many global internet slow downs and outages have been attributed to flaws in those systems? Generally when these software products have flaws, they are patched quickly and easily, and the people running that software know what they are doing and how to update it. This leaves rather few exploitable boxes to take down say a whole banks network for a day by flooding with traffic. Granted, these products do not have the resources to handle being sued. However, they wouldn't be included in the software liability stuff because they don't make any money (well, actually MySQL does... ) It's like my father (he is a lawyer) says: "If they want to be able to charge the ridiculous amounts of money that they charge, and get patents, and copyrights, and attack other people for infringing those patents, then they should be liable for problems with their software." In short, software companies get to reap all of the benefits (artificial monopolies created by patents) without a shred of responsibility/liability whatsoever. That is wrong. They should either be forced into making less money and giving up some of their rights(open source, only charge for service, whatever) or they should be held financially liable when their products don't live up to their billing. Free Software is perfectly covered in this situation because they have given up some of their rights so they are allowed to say "This software may not perform as advertised, if it doesn't we'll fix it for a fee, or someone else will, but you have no legal action to take".
I disagree. That would be impossible to police. I feel that they will continue ad infinitum until SOFTWARE COMPANIES are held financially responsible for holes in their software. If a company releases a hammer, and then it turns out that using that hammer causes injuries (maybe the head flies off sometimes and hits you in the head, because they didn't secure the head to the hammer properly) say this is the case, the hammer company is responsible for the damages caused. If the software company that released the buggy software were to be held financially liable for lost income/revenues caused by their software (think Bank of America's 13,000 ATM's down for a whole day, those things charge 1.50 per transaction, how many millions of transactions (and dollars) did they lose because of MS!?) They should be able to sue.
How can you say this is not a business decision?? back-porting fixes to every version of their distro forever would be suicide financially. For every version they support, they have to keep coders busy working on making sure all of the fixes that come out are applied to the earlier versions, that costs money, they are simply trying to cut costs. How old is 6.2 now?? While I agree that 1 year seems a bit short, I'm not too worried about it.. in my experience with linux.0 releases aren't to be as feared as say mac OS.0's (those are always scary), I've been running rh 8.0 since about a week after its release, and it is just as stable and functional as 7.3 (which I still run on a couple servers, and probably still will for quite a while). So what if they drop official support for the distro, anyone worth their beans should be able to keep machines updated, people will still build rpm's for the updates. You just save money cause you don't have to pay redhat for their rhn service:)
this would be a good reason to use phoenix:) I agree with your points, when I first moved over to mozilla I would constantly hit ctrl+enter expecting the autocomplete, but anymore, I can't stand using IE, I need tabs, and the autocomplete functionality doesn't speed things up too much. of course, I've learned from this thread that alt+enter does what ctrl+enter does in mozilla, hmm so maybe I'll start using phoenix more, cause having both would be nice!
I really doubt mouse gestures are faster, because I like to keep my hands on the keyboard always, I don't normally have a hand on the mouse... moving my hand over to the mouse and back again is much slower than a 2 key combination..
He stated in his post that making images wasn't really going to reduce complexity because the systems themselves are too varied, images do not reduce the amount of time needed in this case. if you have 50 computers and they all have different hardware, you've gotta have 50 images, your average win2k image with no software is about 1 Gb, with stuff like office, and other software, easily 1.5Gb each, so, now you're looking at 75Gb of storage just to keep all of your images (not that 75Gb is some huge amount anymore really, but it is pretty big, I used to work in a 130 employee firm, and until about 1 year ago we only had 100gb of total server storage space, so 75 of that used up for images wasn't feasible at all). plus you have to keep track of which image goes to which computer, besides, you'd have to manually install all of the software on *each* computer anyway to create the initial images, images will not help in this case.
everyone is always praising phoenix, however, on my machine it uses more RAM (about 26MB compared to 20 for mozilla) it isn't noticably faster, and there isn't an option to ctrl+enter in the location bar to open a new tab, ctrl+enter in phoenix does the same as in IE (adds http://www. to the front and.com to the end of whatever is in the location bar) which is a nice shortcut, but I'm too addicted to ctrl+enter creating a new tab, so phoenix's usability suffers for me, and I don't get alot of speed increases anyway...
Dell, Intel, HP, MS, Oracle, IBM, Adobe, to name a few, there are lists in the articles, but basically if they sell computers or software and are worth more than a billion its a safe bet they are part of this agreement (although I dunno if AMD is in on it)
Furthermore, an article on MSNBC earlier today about the same issue stated that the technology industry as part of this agreement stated that they would do everything in their power to impliment DRM anyway, to appease the RIAA and their "need" for legislation. Basically the tech industry said "we'll do what you want without legislation, and we'll stop lobbying for legislation that would hurt you". We got royally screwed in this one boys and girls.
I'm appalled by the moderation to my own comment. (and by my spelling I think..) Anyway, how does such a no brainer comment get a +5 interesting/insightful??? please mod the parent post down! (its my post! do as I bid! and meta-moderators, please mod down the moderators who modded this up!)
Because they lost a patent infringement case, they either have to pay lots of money or remove the feature entirely. This is not by choice, they are being forced to do this.
hmmm, 8 machines, now windows in site for me. (wouldn't buy office for linux either, open office does everything I need) but some of my clients would use office in linux if it were available..
They are purchased, I used to have DirecTV now I've switched to Dish Network, I still have the DirecTV dish and box out in my garage (I haven't hacked it at all, its just sitting out there)
If I purchase a DirecTV box, and then take it out in my garage and play with it/hack it to figure out how it works, that should be my choice to make, I own the box after all. If I use the information I obtain to then steal from DirecTV by obtaining programming I didn't pay for, sure I'm a theif... However, there is no way for them to know I have obtained this information therefore the law is really uninforcable (unless I post all of the info to the web)
Wrong. my laptop was nearly a year old then, I got it in Feb of 01 and installed linux on it in October of 01. My desktop was even older, I got it in Nov of 2000 and installed linux on it in Sept of 01. Assumptions assumptions.
Whether OSS is moving faster than in the past or not isn't the point, my point is that it moves faster than Windows (as Windows XP still doesn't support my wireless nic, a linksys wpc11, right out of the install), and that its made amazing strides in usability this past year.
But, to further argue your point, the oldest box I've installed linux on (a p2 266) had the most problems, usb, video, sound, nic, modem none were recognized properly during the install of 7.1, or 7.2 but in 7.3 they all worked perfectly (all versions RH). So your older is more supported theory doesn't hold there. My newer hardware was supported earlier.
Besides one of the biggest reasons its easier to set up a desktop linux box now is software support not hardware, the inclusion of OpenOffice, Mozilla, Evolution, Gaim, xmms, and the like make it ready to use as soon as the install is finished, you don't have to go around downloading/compiling/installing other software, its all there right out of the box.
Reading this made me think of the trolls who talk about "compiling php scripts" and the like... yeah I can see why you'd run a SQL query through ACCESS, but running a MySQL query through Access makes no sense at all...
Sure, I know you can do that... I'm just talking about the default behavior, and the process most users are going to go through... most users aren't going to spend time figuring out that you can tell windows update to save the updates...
Its the same in RedHat, 4 options workstation, laptop, server, or custom. I always choose custom, meaning I have to do stuff, but my brother who's 14 uses linux, and when he installs he just selects workstation and is done with it... very simple indeed.
I've only been using Linux for about 1.5 years now, and it amazes me how fast things get better in the OSS world. I mean sure Linux has been around for 10 years so maybe that's not "so fast", but in the last year I've noticed huge strides.
The first time I installed linux (redhat 7.1) it took me a few tries to get it to see my mouse, my laptop video card didn't play nice, my desktop sound card didn't get found and took like 3 weeks of teaching myself kernel compilation stuff to get it up and running, my desktop NIC was a hassle, and I thought the desktop choices were attrocious (KDE 2.2 and gnome 1.4 I Think...)
Not to mention any software to do real work (Office apps, decent browser) or to have any fun (IM, Decent mail client) had to be installed after the fact requiring more compilations, and messing with the system...
More recently I installed RedHat 8 on my desktop and laptop... Oh the beauty... Gnome 2 is a truly nice system if you ask me. the new theme is easy to look at (finally!!) All the apps I need (OpenOffice, Gaim, Evolution, Mozilla) are the defaults and are already installed. All of my hardware was perfectly and flawlessly recognized, even my wireless network card was setup during the installation (Shake a stick at that WindowsXP!).
All in all, night and day, in 1 year its gone from taking 1-3 days to get a desktop linux system really ready for production to about 30 minutes... If the next year holds as many leaps and bounds of usability MS will be in dire straights soon.
I have still done WindowsXP installs during the last few months that don't recognize all of the hardware in a box, especially wireless network cards (the linksys wpc11 most notably). Besides the fact that from a clean install of WindowsXP you still have to install all of the software (office, developement environment), it still takes at least 2 hours to get a windowXP box really ready for use, then another 4 to do all the updates it needs... (granted, it takes about 2 hours to download and install all of the redhat updates since the 8.0 release.. but it all happens in the background and doesn't require a reboot, while with WindowsXP and windows update, there are at least 4 updates that you have to download *alone* and then reboot after each one, meaning to do the updates, you are going to reboot 5 times and you have to babysit the box while the updates are happening, times reflect downloading on 1mbps DSL).
In this users opinion, its been a GREAT year for OSS and Linux, and I hope it just keeps getting better.
Granted a little pot residue in the trash probably isn't enough for a prosecution, However, the fact that *MY HOME* may be searched because the teenagers in my neighborhood decided to throw their Friday night leftovers in my can is still an UNACCEPTABLE occurance. Have you ever seen a home/business after its been searched by the cops?? I doubt it or you wouldn't be so forgiving... They cause thousands of dollars in damage generally, and the owner is left to foot the bill whether they find something or not. A cop getting a search warrant to search my home because they looked in my trash is just as bad as them trying to prosecute me for doing the same.
It might be legal for anyone to take it, I think the biggest issue here is in using that trash as *evidence* in an investigation, who's to say it's actually *your* trash?? I throw garbage in other people's trash all the time, if I throw some some drug residue in there, and the cops confiscate it, they can prosecute the home owner for possession?? That is not a good thing.
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I'm pretty sure I read earlier that MS claims patents over the OpenGL spec, wouldn't they be pulling out of the group so as to sue the group for patent infringment?
The article states that the attack started friday night inside MS, at like 8 or 9pm I think, wasn't it not until like 1am that it was really humming?? Wouldn't this timeline lead one to believe it could have started kicking inside MS first?
how many global internet slow downs and outages have been attributed to flaws in those systems?
Generally when these software products have flaws, they are patched quickly and easily, and the people running that software know what they are doing and how to update it. This leaves rather few exploitable boxes to take down say a whole banks network for a day by flooding with traffic. Granted, these products do not have the resources to handle being sued. However, they wouldn't be included in the software liability stuff because they don't make any money (well, actually MySQL does... ) It's like my father (he is a lawyer) says: "If they want to be able to charge the ridiculous amounts of money that they charge, and get patents, and copyrights, and attack other people for infringing those patents, then they should be liable for problems with their software." In short, software companies get to reap all of the benefits (artificial monopolies created by patents) without a shred of responsibility/liability whatsoever. That is wrong. They should either be forced into making less money and giving up some of their rights(open source, only charge for service, whatever) or they should be held financially liable when their products don't live up to their billing. Free Software is perfectly covered in this situation because they have given up some of their rights so they are allowed to say "This software may not perform as advertised, if it doesn't we'll fix it for a fee, or someone else will, but you have no legal action to take".
I disagree.
That would be impossible to police.
I feel that they will continue ad infinitum until SOFTWARE COMPANIES are held financially responsible for holes in their software. If a company releases a hammer, and then it turns out that using that hammer causes injuries (maybe the head flies off sometimes and hits you in the head, because they didn't secure the head to the hammer properly) say this is the case, the hammer company is responsible for the damages caused. If the software company that released the buggy software were to be held financially liable for lost income/revenues caused by their software (think Bank of America's 13,000 ATM's down for a whole day, those things charge 1.50 per transaction, how many millions of transactions (and dollars) did they lose because of MS!?) They should be able to sue.
How can you say this is not a business decision?? .0 releases aren't to be as feared as say mac OS .0's (those are always scary), I've been running rh 8.0 since about a week after its release, and it is just as stable and functional as 7.3 (which I still run on a couple servers, and probably still will for quite a while). So what if they drop official support for the distro, anyone worth their beans should be able to keep machines updated, people will still build rpm's for the updates. You just save money cause you don't have to pay redhat for their rhn service :)
back-porting fixes to every version of their distro forever would be suicide financially. For every version they support, they have to keep coders busy working on making sure all of the fixes that come out are applied to the earlier versions, that costs money, they are simply trying to cut costs. How old is 6.2 now?? While I agree that 1 year seems a bit short, I'm not too worried about it.. in my experience with linux
right, :)
so ctrl+alt+enter is great! haha! maybe I'm addicted to phoenix now!
lol, how easily I'm pleased
this would be a good reason to use phoenix :)
I agree with your points, when I first moved over to mozilla I would constantly hit ctrl+enter expecting the autocomplete, but anymore, I can't stand using IE, I need tabs, and the autocomplete functionality doesn't speed things up too much.
of course, I've learned from this thread that alt+enter does what ctrl+enter does in mozilla, hmm so maybe I'll start using phoenix more, cause having both would be nice!
I really doubt mouse gestures are faster, because I like to keep my hands on the keyboard always, I don't normally have a hand on the mouse... moving my hand over to the mouse and back again is much slower than a 2 key combination..
He stated in his post that making images wasn't really going to reduce complexity because the systems themselves are too varied, images do not reduce the amount of time needed in this case. if you have 50 computers and they all have different hardware, you've gotta have 50 images, your average win2k image with no software is about 1 Gb, with stuff like office, and other software, easily 1.5Gb each, so, now you're looking at 75Gb of storage just to keep all of your images (not that 75Gb is some huge amount anymore really, but it is pretty big, I used to work in a 130 employee firm, and until about 1 year ago we only had 100gb of total server storage space, so 75 of that used up for images wasn't feasible at all). plus you have to keep track of which image goes to which computer, besides, you'd have to manually install all of the software on *each* computer anyway to create the initial images, images will not help in this case.
everyone is always praising phoenix, however, on my machine it uses more RAM (about 26MB compared to 20 for mozilla) it isn't noticably faster, and there isn't an option to ctrl+enter in the location bar to open a new tab, ctrl+enter in phoenix does the same as in IE (adds http://www. to the front and .com to the end of whatever is in the location bar) which is a nice shortcut, but I'm too addicted to ctrl+enter creating a new tab, so phoenix's usability suffers for me, and I don't get alot of speed increases anyway...
Dell, Intel, HP, MS, Oracle, IBM, Adobe, to name a few,
there are lists in the articles,
but basically if they sell computers or software and are worth more than a billion its a safe bet they are part of this agreement (although I dunno if AMD is in on it)
Furthermore,
an article on MSNBC earlier today about the same issue stated that the technology industry as part of this agreement stated that they would do everything in their power to impliment DRM anyway, to appease the RIAA and their "need" for legislation. Basically the tech industry said "we'll do what you want without legislation, and we'll stop lobbying for legislation that would hurt you". We got royally screwed in this one boys and girls.
I'm appalled by the moderation to my own comment.
(and by my spelling I think..)
Anyway, how does such a no brainer comment get a +5 interesting/insightful??? please mod the parent post down! (its my post! do as I bid! and meta-moderators, please mod down the moderators who modded this up!)
Because they lost a patent infringement case,
they either have to pay lots of money or remove the feature entirely.
This is not by choice, they are being forced to do this.
hmmm, 8 machines, now windows in site for me.
(wouldn't buy office for linux either, open office does everything I need) but some of my clients would use office in linux if it were available..
They are purchased,
I used to have DirecTV now I've switched to Dish Network, I still have the DirecTV dish and box out in my garage (I haven't hacked it at all, its just sitting out there)
If I purchase a DirecTV box, and then take it out in my garage and play with it/hack it to figure out how it works, that should be my choice to make, I own the box after all. If I use the information I obtain to then steal from DirecTV by obtaining programming I didn't pay for, sure I'm a theif... However, there is no way for them to know I have obtained this information therefore the law is really uninforcable (unless I post all of the info to the web)
Wrong.
my laptop was nearly a year old then, I got it in Feb of 01 and installed linux on it in October of 01. My desktop was even older, I got it in Nov of 2000 and installed linux on it in Sept of 01. Assumptions assumptions.
Whether OSS is moving faster than in the past or not isn't the point, my point is that it moves faster than Windows (as Windows XP still doesn't support my wireless nic, a linksys wpc11, right out of the install), and that its made amazing strides in usability this past year.
But, to further argue your point, the oldest box I've installed linux on (a p2 266) had the most problems, usb, video, sound, nic, modem none were recognized properly during the install of 7.1, or 7.2 but in 7.3 they all worked perfectly (all versions RH). So your older is more supported theory doesn't hold there. My newer hardware was supported earlier.
Besides one of the biggest reasons its easier to set up a desktop linux box now is software support not hardware, the inclusion of OpenOffice, Mozilla, Evolution, Gaim, xmms, and the like make it ready to use as soon as the install is finished, you don't have to go around downloading/compiling/installing other software, its all there right out of the box.
Reading this made me think of the trolls who talk about "compiling php scripts" and the like... yeah I can see why you'd run a SQL query through ACCESS, but running a MySQL query through Access makes no sense at all...
Sure, I know you can do that... I'm just talking about the default behavior, and the process most users are going to go through... most users aren't going to spend time figuring out that you can tell windows update to save the updates...
Its the same in RedHat, 4 options workstation, laptop, server, or custom. I always choose custom, meaning I have to do stuff, but my brother who's 14 uses linux, and when he installs he just selects workstation and is done with it... very simple indeed.
I've only been using Linux for about 1.5 years now, and it amazes me how fast things get better in the OSS world. I mean sure Linux has been around for 10 years so maybe that's not "so fast", but in the last year I've noticed huge strides.
The first time I installed linux (redhat 7.1) it took me a few tries to get it to see my mouse, my laptop video card didn't play nice, my desktop sound card didn't get found and took like 3 weeks of teaching myself kernel compilation stuff to get it up and running, my desktop NIC was a hassle, and I thought the desktop choices were attrocious (KDE 2.2 and gnome 1.4 I Think...)
Not to mention any software to do real work (Office apps, decent browser) or to have any fun (IM, Decent mail client) had to be installed after the fact requiring more compilations, and messing with the system...
More recently I installed RedHat 8 on my desktop and laptop... Oh the beauty... Gnome 2 is a truly nice system if you ask me. the new theme is easy to look at (finally!!) All the apps I need (OpenOffice, Gaim, Evolution, Mozilla) are the defaults and are already installed. All of my hardware was perfectly and flawlessly recognized, even my wireless network card was setup during the installation (Shake a stick at that WindowsXP!).
All in all, night and day, in 1 year its gone from taking 1-3 days to get a desktop linux system really ready for production to about 30 minutes... If the next year holds as many leaps and bounds of usability MS will be in dire straights soon.
I have still done WindowsXP installs during the last few months that don't recognize all of the hardware in a box, especially wireless network cards (the linksys wpc11 most notably). Besides the fact that from a clean install of WindowsXP you still have to install all of the software (office, developement environment), it still takes at least 2 hours to get a windowXP box really ready for use, then another 4 to do all the updates it needs... (granted, it takes about 2 hours to download and install all of the redhat updates since the 8.0 release.. but it all happens in the background and doesn't require a reboot, while with WindowsXP and windows update, there are at least 4 updates that you have to download *alone* and then reboot after each one, meaning to do the updates, you are going to reboot 5 times and you have to babysit the box while the updates are happening, times reflect downloading on 1mbps DSL).
In this users opinion, its been a GREAT year for OSS and Linux, and I hope it just keeps getting better.
Granted a little pot residue in the trash probably isn't enough for a prosecution, However, the fact that *MY HOME* may be searched because the teenagers in my neighborhood decided to throw their Friday night leftovers in my can is still an UNACCEPTABLE occurance. Have you ever seen a home/business after its been searched by the cops?? I doubt it or you wouldn't be so forgiving... They cause thousands of dollars in damage generally, and the owner is left to foot the bill whether they find something or not. A cop getting a search warrant to search my home because they looked in my trash is just as bad as them trying to prosecute me for doing the same.
It might be legal for anyone to take it,
I think the biggest issue here is in using that trash as *evidence* in an investigation, who's to say it's actually *your* trash?? I throw garbage in other people's trash all the time, if I throw some some drug residue in there, and the cops confiscate it, they can prosecute the home owner for possession?? That is not a good thing.
Garbage men get paid a heck of alot more than that,
they actually make like 25-30/hour, at least in Nevada they do.