High-Tech Foosball Mod Project

Re:Step 5 by mackstann · 2003-01-02 00:13 · Score: 0, Offtopic

"better"? what's better than having a little fun? don't be so damn serious.

To the author... by Gyan · 2003-01-02 00:14 · Score: 0, Troll

Do you like playing foosball alone ? How ?

Re:To the author... by packeteer · 2003-01-02 00:43 · Score: 2

foosall can be played aloen just fine. Its good practice just to make shots and practice aim and differant moves.

--
unzip; strip; touch; finger; mount; fsck; more; yes; unmount; sleep
Re:To the author... by WPIDalamar · 2003-01-02 01:10 · Score: 3, Funny

It's easy ... 3 Parts Gin, 4 Parts Vodka, 1 Part foosball table.
Re:To the author... by Anonymous Coward · 2003-01-02 05:09 · Score: 0

You'll go blind playing foosball alone too much.
Re:To the author... by buck_wild · 2003-01-02 16:45 · Score: 1

I cruised through the article, and didn't find any mention of the author intending to play alone.

In fact, I found just the opposite: "...the real interesting stuff happens when the table actually knows who's playing whom."

--
If all you have is a hammer, everything looks like a nail.
Re:To the author... by me.at.work · 2003-01-03 04:36 · Score: 1

foosall can be played aloen just fine. Its good practice just to make shots and practice aim and differant moves.
you are referring to foosball, and nothing - nothing - else, right?

Spinning by assaultriflesforfree · 2003-01-02 00:15 · Score: 4, Interesting

Second post... fantastic. I have a question (poll I guess) for foosball players out there. Spinning or no spinning? Personally, I don't like spinning - especially since it can damage a table - but I've found that depending on where I play, house rules seem to change. What do you think? This leads me to an idea for a neat feature for a high-tech table - a spin detector that doles out appropriate punishment (i.e. not counting points scored from spins, or whatever).

Re:Spinning by Kajakske · 2003-01-02 00:17 · Score: 1

Well, can you imagine a real life football (soccer, whatever) player spin 2 or 3 times ? I can't ...
So I'd vote against spinning. It do think 180 spin (so just to the point where the feet are on top) are possible (also in real life :p).

Bt as you said, rules are different everywhere you go ...

--
Linux hosting for $2.50/mo
Re:Spinning by Anonymous Coward · 2003-01-02 00:22 · Score: 4, Insightful

Nah. When you spin, you lose a lot of control. I've always found that players may start out spinning, but once they've played a few games they stop. You can get a HELL of a shot from a normal flick of the wrist, plus then you're ready to immediately stuff a rebound coming back from your shot. If you spin, you lose contact with the handle and thus you lose control and reaction.
Re:Spinning by Ice_Balrog · 2003-01-02 00:23 · Score: 1

No spinning. Especially not on cheap tables, because spinning can cause the bars to bend.

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#include "sig.h"
Re:Spinning by 91degrees · 2003-01-02 00:25 · Score: 1

The argument for spinning is that it's easier to just allow spinning than to work out penalties for spinning, and determining whether it was a spin, or a slightly over zealous kick (although a spin detector would solve this one).
Re:Spinning by Turbyne · 2003-01-02 00:58 · Score: 0

180 spin = Bicycle kick

--
~A'Ëq'i4d)^'$ÊSÈòB
Re:Spinning by Anonymous Coward · 2003-01-02 01:27 · Score: 5, Interesting
Any person that has played more than the occasional casual game of foosball knows that spinning is a quick way to lose. The keys to winning are:
- Ball control - By far the most important, as the opponent cannot score if they don't have the ball;
- Shot speed - Important, but not as much as most people think (a well placed angle shot scores the same value point as the burner to that dents the back of the goal);
- Deception - Disguising your shot so that the opponent doesn't see it coming;
- Anticipation - Being able to anticipate the opponent's shot (particularly easy when they are bad at deception);
- Exploiting Weakness - Find a shot in your arsensal that the opponent can't block and you're home free;
- Playing - Like most things in life, the more you do it the better you get at it.
- With spinning, you gain a broken table and a high total in the "L" column (to match the L on your forehead ;-). When I play against "spinners", I know that it's going to be a short, uninteresting game. But watching their frustration when you *always* have the ball is funny. :-)
Re:Spinning by bwalling · 2003-01-02 01:37 · Score: 1, Redundant

Not on my table. That's how the rods get bent. Spinning seems to be more common among people that are just starting to play. I think that once you get better at foosball, you just naturally stop spinning.
Re:Spinning by Gudlyf · 2003-01-02 02:08 · Score: 5, Funny

"Well, can you imagine a real life football (soccer, whatever) player spin 2 or 3 times ? I can't ..."
Yeah, and while we're at it, I don't recall ever seeing the forwards connected together with a metal rod, restricting them to left-right movement. Same for the defensemen, too. Therefore, I vote against the foosball players being tethered together like that, because it's not like real life.
Not every table game has to be like real life. You play by the mechanics and rules given to you. What matters is that everyone has fun and nobody else's expense.

--
Trolls lurk everywhere. Mod them down.
Re:Spinning by gstatton · 2003-01-02 02:36 · Score: 1

Spinning only damages the table and the players ability to play well! if you really like foosbal: NO SPINNING!!! unless you are a pansy.

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http://www.whateversclever.net
Re:Spinning by theforest · 2003-01-02 02:41 · Score: 1

Foosball is a highly skilled game. Spinning is no skill at all; cheap luck shots made by accident. We would try not to even count points made by accident; either dont mark them at all, or the opposing goalie would swiftly reach into the goal and grab the ball out after it entered the goal. Some guys could reach half an arms length down into the goal. Its just understood. After making a cheap shot, you look up at the opposing team and apologize. Kind of like pool.
Re:Spinning by Anonymous Coward · 2003-01-02 03:21 · Score: 1, Informative

First of all spinning is against the rules. It's hard on the table and leads to poor gameplay. Accuracy is much more important than shotspeed. You need to learn a good hard wristflick an then you can shoot the ball fast enough that it doesn't matter. The one problem with trying to implement spin dectecors (other than the mechanical design) is that you can spin to some degree. You cannot spin the rod more than 360 before you make contact and nor after you make contact. This allows you to spin it almost 720 during a shot, however you cannot let go of the rod while doing this. (There is one shot, called the snake shot or wrist rocket that starts with the man on top of the ball on the front side of the rod. Then he flips over and strikes the ball and keeps going a bit.)
It sometimes takes people a bit to learn not to spin, but once they do they are a lot better because of it. If a person is spinning they may get one or two lucky goals, but otherwise they probably can't stop the other player once that player gets the ball. Good players will be able to just pass the ball upfield and then score off of their 3 man rod.
Re:Spinning by GothChip · 2003-01-02 03:31 · Score: 2

I think that once you get better at foosball, you just naturally stop spinning.

I think it's more of a case of when you keep losing, you stop spinning. Then you become a better player.
Re:Spinning by Anonymous Coward · 2003-01-02 05:39 · Score: 0

Spinning is only punishable by death or being exiled from the table itself. There is no skill or talent involved in blindly spining the rods and hoping the ball goes into the goal.
Re:Spinning by susano_otter · 2003-01-02 06:30 · Score: 2

I always figured games should be played to the limits of their rules and mechanics. Failing to do so means lost opportunities to improve one's skill, and ultimately leads to an artificial limitation on one's ability.

Some people are uncomfortable with this level of competitiveness, and prefer to play a much more relaxed game. This is fine, of course, though I don't understand it. I always want to characterize it as "having more fun imposing arbitrary restrictions on gameplay, rather than constantly challenging yourself and your opponents to higher levels of performance". Me, I like the challenging bit. Others don't. As long as I don't accidentally end up playing with such a person, or get punished for being more competitive than my opponent, the two of us can coexist peacefully, I think.

--
Any sufficiently well-organized community is indistinguishable from Government.
Re:Spinning by susano_otter · 2003-01-02 06:45 · Score: 2

After making a cheap shot, you look up at the opposing team and apologize.
That's funny, after I make a cheap shot, I look at my opponent and expect him to develop a counter for it--delivering a painful demonstration of how weak my cheap shot actually is, and forcing me to improve my own game in response.

If my opponent can't counter it, then I'll just keep using it until they mount an all-out defense against it that I can't penetrate, forcing me to revert to other techniques that my opponent can counter. Then I'll mix it up, alternating between cheap shots and other shots unpredictably. If my opponent is playing in the same way, then it becomes a truly exciting mental contest, rather than a simple memorization and repetition of a single keystroke sequence, or spin shot, or whatever. And this, to me, is much more challenging than imposing an arbitrary rule against "cheap" techniques.

This generally works out for me, and I've yet to find a cheap shot in any game that was any good against an opponent who was more interested in playing than in whining.

--
Any sufficiently well-organized community is indistinguishable from Government.
Re:Spinning by Anonymous Coward · 2003-01-02 07:12 · Score: 0

Spinning is now actually legal if "controlled." Most rules in my opinion were originally written to favor the more skilled players to cultivate a better game. However, when all the old-timers quit, the rules had to soften for all you sukkees that do open-hand flip shots. That, and slower playing surfaces to get more people to play, and cost less.

There are a lot of good tourney rules that were abandoned to create higher scoring. mo quarters!

YOU'VE PLAYED THE REST, NOW PLAY THE BEST!
Re:Spinning by pthisis · 2003-01-02 09:50 · Score: 2

I play tournament foosball pretty frequently. One of the very first things you learn is that everyone good has a decent shot; the thing that seperates the tournament-level players from the casual players is their ability to pass the ball and block their opponent's passes. Passing from the 5-bar to the 3-bar is key--you have to be able to execute at least 2 different passes from the same setup without telegraphing which one you're doing, and then you need to be able to read the opponents' pass defense to decide which to execute.

Just like in football, time in the redzone is going to get you the win.

If you're in the Washington, DC area, come out to the Crystal City Sports Pub in Arlington (23rd street and S. Eads) on Tuesday night at 8:00 PM. They have a handicapped tournament that is great for new players who want to learn to play tournament level foosball. Other cities have similar events, foosball.com should have a listing.

Sumner

--
rage, rage against the dying of the light
Re:Spinning by Licensed2Hack · 2003-01-02 15:37 · Score: 1

No spinning. There are various rule books about, mostly associated with a specific table. Checkout these sites for more info on foos and foos rules in the USA. Also read the Usenet Newsgroup rec.sport.table-soccer.

Sorry, don't have links to Euro-foosin' or elsewhere. Anyone?

Re:Step 5 by 91degrees · 2003-01-02 00:17 · Score: 2, Insightful

It's useful to do this sort of thing for practise in finding technological solutions.

I'm sure even for people who knew a lot, there was something to learn here.

Okay then.. by Anonymous Coward · 2003-01-02 00:19 · Score: 3, Funny

> Spend under $50.

Hey CowboyNeal, bet'ya $49.95 you can't take this laptop, climb inside that foosball table and stay down there while I hammer the surface back on..

Lingo and Serial Port Listining.. by g00z · 2003-01-02 00:21 · Score: 5, Interesting

First, I found it sorta wierd that he decided to use director as a front end -- Personaly I would have used flash since actionscript is less archaic than lingo is and for doing dynamic vector stuff flash cant be beat. But hey, more power too him.

I am, however, curious as to how he is getting this data (1's and 0's) from the serial port to director? I wasn't aware that lingo had any hardware level control (besides the keybord and mouse) -- unless he's got it wired up so the bx board is actualy simulating a mouse click, but he doesn't say. I find myself wanting more details.

And by the way, the article is a little misleading. $50 for the sensors, breadboard and card reader. Flat screen LCD, foozball table and computer not included. See store for details.

--
"The Wright brothers were the first to fly with a heavier-than-air machine, but boy did they have a lousy plane"

Re:Lingo and Serial Port Listining.. by packeteer · 2003-01-02 00:56 · Score: 2

First of all i agree that flash would be better but maybe he has a lot of knowledge of director from his studies...

I believe that the way the data is taken in is by simulating a keystroke which is then captured.

And finally i dont think this was meant to be an outline for anyone else to do the project. His goal was to only spend $50 but im sure people could do it with less depending on available materials.

--
unzip; strip; touch; finger; mount; fsck; more; yes; unmount; sleep
Re:Lingo and Serial Port Listining.. by TheTomcat · 2003-01-02 01:27 · Score: 4, Informative

Director has much better support for third-party "Xtras" (plugins). Yes Lingo is a dirty, nasty language (better now that dot-notation is the norm), but I don't think serial-port interaction could be directly possible in Flash Player.

See: Serial Xtra

S

Cool, but... by Harald74 · 2003-01-02 00:21 · Score: 4, Funny

...can it sense your mood when you're loosing?

--
A)bort, R)etry or S)elf-destruct?

Re:Cool, but... by Negatyfus · 2003-01-02 01:46 · Score: 1

What would make it really interesting, is to have a shocker installed that shocks the opponent with an adequate amount of Volts whenever you score a goal. Maybe the voltage could be increased based on the difference in score or how fast the ball hits the goal. It's just very important that the table does not malfunction if it has such a feature.
Re:Cool, but... by VikingBerserker · 2003-01-02 01:58 · Score: 5, Insightful

What if an incentive system were installed, instead? Considering that most foosball tables are found where drinking is involved, what if a nice, cold beer were dispensed to the player who scores each goal?

I figure things would get interesting as the player who took an early lead slows his reaction times due to alcohol, thus leveling the playing field.
Re:Cool, but... by krylan · 2003-01-02 06:48 · Score: 1

What about a spell checker?

--

...I could be wrong
Re:Cool, but... by Anonymous Coward · 2003-01-02 13:05 · Score: 0

It's fucking *LOSING* you dipshit bastard.

And he got *credit* for this project? by kbs · 2003-01-02 00:21 · Score: 4, Interesting

I'd be curious to know what the original statement of the project parameters were.

Also, it seems that the encoding on the student card may be the same as what we use; apparently the encoding of the social security number in my student card is the same as the encoding of the social security number at a local supermarket.

--
yours,
kbs

The goal problem by Kajakske · 2003-01-02 00:22 · Score: 4, Interesting

Well, he doesn't detect goals for 100%, right ?
Couldn't he combine the two systems ?

Like, detect when the ball hits the back plate + when it goes thhrough the vending machine censor. That way, if the ball just rolls in, the vending machine sensor will detect it, when it bounces the plate will detect it, and when they do bot (bounce but roll in anyway) they'll both detect it ...

It might get him over the $50 when adding extra sensors ofcourse ...

--

Linux hosting for $2.50/mo

Re:The goal problem by Latent+IT · 2003-01-02 00:36 · Score: 2

That's a great idea. And on the database side, the PC could just discount a goal if it's made within x seconds from another goal.

Do that!
Re:The goal problem by fruey · 2003-01-02 01:30 · Score: 1

He already has a system which rejects 2 goals in less than 2 seconds so he's already got the solution for that.
In France, a rebound doesn't count, it has to go in and stay in.

--
Conversion Rate Optimisation French / English consultant
Re:The goal problem by Kajakske · 2003-01-02 01:32 · Score: 1

I just got a better idea ...

Why doesn't he just use a sensor in the ball, then marks off the playing field and make some software to detect when and where the ball leaves the playing area. This would also allow four OUT detection, % of ball possion (you'd have to mark the players too, then see where the ball is the most) ....

Countless possibilities !

--
Linux hosting for $2.50/mo

Umm... security concerns. by elrond2 · 2003-01-02 00:23 · Score: 3, Insightful

Any system tied to SSN is pretty scary -- even with an MD5 hash the SSN is recoverable due to the small 'keyspace'. Comments?

Re:Umm... security concerns. by dr_labrat · 2003-01-02 00:53 · Score: 4, Funny

You are absolutely righy, and yet I can't help feeling that it doesn't actually matter.
Its a foosball game.

--
The secret of success is honesty and fair dealing. If you can fake those, you've got it made. (Marx)
Re:Umm... security concerns. by sporty · 2003-01-02 01:33 · Score: 2

Ah, but if this becomes a permanent system, now you have proof of where kids are in the school.

BMCC had a problem with this, where they tracked your entry into various buildings and if you didn't entre certain buildings at certain times, in liu with your schedule, you'd lose financial aid.

So nw the concern is, is the kid goofing off or in class? At NYU, they don't care.. they just care they are getting money and have someone standing in front of the classroom "giving quality education".

--
-
ping -f 255.255.255.255 # if only
Re:Umm... security concerns. by Anonymous Coward · 2003-01-02 05:18 · Score: 0

It's probably even smaller than you think. Remember, the first three in a SS# are the state you are born in. Hrm. Perhaps this should be tied into the display system as well. "Cowbow neal from Houston, TX"
Re:Umm... security concerns. by Valar · 2003-01-02 06:01 · Score: 2

And the foosball gestapo will show up and take you away, never to be seen again, if you get too good. Can't have you challenging the established foosball hierarchy.

--

====
Crudely Drawn Games
Re:Umm... security concerns. by ivan256 · 2003-01-02 11:54 · Score: 2

BMCC had a problem with this, where they tracked your entry into various buildings and if you didn't entre certain buildings at certain times, in liu with your schedule, you'd lose financial aid.

This sounds like a rumour. It can't possibly be true. How would they account for two people going through the door at the same time? How about people swiping their card and then not entering the building. Sounds like something they tell the gullible freshman to scare the shit out of them.

What? by MoThugz · 2003-01-02 00:24 · Score: 5, Funny

From the article: In my opinion, the most interesting part of the project is the database that ties everything together. When the user swipes his or her NYU card, Director takes this information and sends it to a ASP script (running on an Windows 2000 box that is tied to an Access database). This ASP script runs a MySQL query through Access and spits back XML that contains information on the player (wins, loss, average points per game, number of games played, etc) . This XML is passed back into Director via getNetText and put into global variables which are then fed to the screen at the appropriate time.

ASP script on a Win2k box, tied to an Access DB, which runs MySQL queries, spitting out XML which is parsed in Director. Does this guy actually realizes what he has written?

--
Welley Corporation - SLM Scammers

Re:What? by Anonymous Coward · 2003-01-02 00:30 · Score: 0

I suspect he's written ASP script on a Win2k box, tied to an Access DB, which runs MySQL queries, spitting out XML which is parsed in Director. So what?
Re:What? by watzinaneihm · 2003-01-02 00:43 · Score: 1

Of course all the software cost >$50 ,not to mention the cost of the machine that runs it.

--
.ACMD setaloiv siht gnidaeR
Re:What? by s.a.m · 2003-01-02 01:41 · Score: 1

At a first glance I said so what? Then realized what he actually said...and man that's just weird.
Re:What? by Anonymous Coward · 2003-01-02 02:36 · Score: 0

I suppose it should be not "MySQL queries" but "My SQL queries"... ops.. "my SQL queries" or better "my SQL queries after reading ``Teach yourself DB programming in MS Access in 1 hour''"
Re:What? by lockstocknbarrel · 2003-01-02 02:45 · Score: 1

I don't get it .... what has he written?

--
---------- slow blades penetrate ----------
Re:What? by TheConfusedOne · 2003-01-02 02:49 · Score: 2

ASP script on a Win2k box, tied to an Access DB, which runs MySQL queries, spitting out XML which is parsed in Director. Does this guy actually realizes what he has written?

Windows.KNOT?

--
--- I wish I could hear the soundtrack to my life. That way I'd know when to duck.
Re:What? by chicks.net · 2003-01-02 04:42 · Score: 2, Funny

ASP script on a Win2k box, tied to an Access DB, which runs MySQL queries, spitting out XML which is parsed in Director. Does this guy actually realizes what he has written?
Let's just hope that this wasn't for a software engineering course. :) Or NYU grads are in for a rude awakening after graduation.

--
--
Free software isn't free, but expensive software is expensive.
Re:What? by Anonymous Coward · 2003-01-02 05:03 · Score: 0

I don't think he does and it appears a few others don't as well. Pretty sad.

SQL != MySQL
Re:What? by Anonymous Coward · 2003-01-02 05:23 · Score: 0

I don't think it's so bad. When I was also little I used to play with those wooden blocks with the letter and numbers on them and pretend I was building buildings. Now I use real tools to build real buildings. So whats the difference with him using the Microsoft stuff now and using the real stuff when he grows up?
Re:What? by Anonymous Coward · 2003-01-02 07:44 · Score: 0

Jungle books made of paper.
Re:What? by eshaft · 2003-01-02 07:54 · Score: 1

you've got to realize taht this was for a course that required using all of those things. so yes, redundant, but necessary for a grade...

(from a fellow ITP'er)

-eshaft

--
lf.o
Re:What? by Otto · 2003-01-02 07:56 · Score: 2

Other than the fact that he said "MySQL" instead of "SQL", I see nothing wrong with what he said. He's got an ASP script on a box running, say, IIS. When you get the script through the webserver, it runs some SQL Queries on the database, and returns an XML document with the results. The Director program he wrote uses getNetText to run that HTTP query to the webserver and get the XML document back. It parses it, and displays it.

Simple and straightforward. There's easier ways, but that sounds like it was fairly easy to prototype and test quickly. You can test that the script is outputting the right data without having the Director crap done yet.

--
- Give a man a fire and he's warm for a day, but set him on fire and he's warm for the rest of his life.

Re:Step 5 by Anonymous Coward · 2003-01-02 00:25 · Score: 2, Funny

Hmm. Let's consider the choices, shall we?

1. Fun
2. Not Fun

This guy chose (1) and now has an excellent foosball game, plus the admiration of thousands (notably NYU females, admit it, they're hot) and only a small load on his (borrowed) server.

You chose (2) and I suspect are at home poring over recent InfoWorlds.

Who's the better man? I leave that to posterity to decide. But I can guarantee I know who's enjoying his life more.

"Project"? Uh, not quite. by Anonymous Coward · 2003-01-02 00:25 · Score: 0

The description says to "project" the score information onto a flat screen. I was wondering how this fellow would rig up a flat-screen projection system for under $50 - I was thinking a fresnel-lense "100-inch-TV" style setup. What a disappointment - he merely sends the data to a computer, and the computer monitor displays the information. Nothing to do with projection.

Spin Detector? Re:Spinning by kbs · 2003-01-02 00:25 · Score: 2, Funny

I'd love a Spin Detector on my TV... so that whenever a politician's trying to spin something I can be warned... ...although I guess it would prove useless because the damn thing would be flashing all the time...

--
yours,
kbs

Re:Spin Detector? Re:Spinning by dhartman · 2003-01-02 03:16 · Score: 1

They have such a 'spin detector'...check out Fox News Channel's Bill O'Reilly "The Factor". On topic...spinning has generally been considered 'bad form' from where I'm from. Generally your hand must remain in contact with the handle through the shot. I've played in places where they will disallow a goal if the ball even touches another player (I call that bogus) AND where they don't allow goals from the center bar (with 5 players).

Of course it cost less than $50... by pwagland · 2003-01-02 00:31 · Score: 5, Interesting

He just happened to have:

A large flat screen plasma TV "lieing around"
A spare box running W2K
Licences for MSQL (it was legal, right?)
Licences for macromedia (that control app was made legally, right?)
A Foosball table...

If I had all that lying around I am sure that I could of done it for $50 as well.... If not... well the licence for W2K alone would break that budget. And that is the cheapest item on the list!

Not trying to take anything away from the hack, it was very cool, but saying that it cost $50 strikes me as a bit rich....

Re:Of course it cost less than $50... by Milkyman · 2003-01-02 00:41 · Score: 1

seeing as how this is a school project and the other guy doing the project he linked to also made use of director its likely that they have educational licenses provided by the school or purchased as part of the materials for the course. Of course that still doesn't explain the screen and computer.
Re:Of course it cost less than $50... by benjymous · 2003-01-02 00:46 · Score: 1

Well, as it's a college project, I'd assume they'd have site licences for the software - and probably the hardware used and the table belong to the college too

So he just had to spend $50 on top of what was already available (or would you complain to someone who said they'd spent $50 modding their computer, because they'd actually spent more money on actually buying the computer in the first place?)

--
Help me! I'm turning into a grapefruit!
Re:Of course it cost less than $50... by sporty · 2003-01-02 00:48 · Score: 2

It's typical NYU silliness. NYU students are either

a) typically rich
b) getting their degrees slowly
c) in debt from loans

--
-
ping -f 255.255.255.255 # if only
Re:Of course it cost less than $50... by 91degrees · 2003-01-02 00:49 · Score: 2, Interesting

It's quite feasable that the screen was already there.

I think he used MySQL which sorts out one of the licencing costs. as for the computer - He must have had a couple of spares lieing around. What sort of a geek would he be if he didn't?
Re:Of course it cost less than $50... by Innominate+Recreant · 2003-01-02 00:54 · Score: 2

He didn't say it cost less than $50. He said he spent less than $50.
Re:Of course it cost less than $50... by bdash · 2003-01-02 01:05 · Score: 3, Interesting

think he used MySQL which sorts out one of the licencing costs. as for the computer - He must have had a couple of spares lieing around. What sort of a geek would he be if he didn't?

It seems to me that the author of the page is slightly confused:

4. Database: IIS/SQL/MS Access

In my opinion, the most interesting part of the project is the database that ties everything together. When the user swipes his or her NYU card, Director takes this information and sends it to a ASP script (running on an Windows 2000 box that is tied to an Access database). This ASP script runs a MySQL query through Access and spits back XML that contains information on the player (wins, loss, average points per game, number of games played, etc) . This XML is passed back into Director via getNetText and put into global variables which are then fed to the screen at the appropriate time.
(emphasis mine)

How you run a MySQL query through Access is beyond me. Heck, does that even make the slightest sense?
Re:Of course it cost less than $50... by pavera · 2003-01-02 01:12 · Score: 2

Reading this made me think of the trolls who talk about "compiling php scripts" and the like... yeah I can see why you'd run a SQL query through ACCESS, but running a MySQL query through Access makes no sense at all...
Re:Of course it cost less than $50... by mark_lybarger · 2003-01-02 02:10 · Score: 1

most students don't really care much about licensing issues. if it installs and runs, it's ok. while post education, the "legally" part becomes slightly more clear (not moral, but clearer), during education, "legally" takes on a whole new meaning.
Re:Of course it cost less than $50... by Brummund · 2003-01-02 02:25 · Score: 1

How you run a MySQL query through Access is beyond me

He problably linked up the mysql database using ODBC. Access can link to tables from various datasources using ODBC. The tables can be accessed just like if it was a "normal" Access table.

Why on earth he would do that is beyond me. :-)
Re:Of course it cost less than $50... by Anonymous Coward · 2003-01-02 03:36 · Score: 0

Are you saying he stole all that other stuff or just got it as gifts?
Stop and think. What good is the $50 quote in the story lead if some parts count and other don't. It's just bull.
Re:Of course it cost less than $50... by Anonymous Coward · 2003-01-02 03:38 · Score: 0

Would you complain to someone who said they'd spent $50 modding their computer?
If the article said, "upgrade a computer to a 1TB raid for $50" and it turned out the author had all those disks already, and only included the cost of mounting them, yes, it would be just as lame as this.
Re:Of course it cost less than $50... by Rich0 · 2003-01-02 03:44 · Score: 3, Insightful

...or would you complain to someone who said they'd spent $50 modding their computer, because they'd actually spent more money on actually buying the computer in the first place?

Actually, since this is a foosball mod, I'd say that you could assume you already had the foosball table. Most foosball fanatics have a foosball player, just as most PC modders have a PC. On the other hand, I wouldn't say that most foosball fanatics have a spare plasma flat-panel sitting in the corner of their basement...

If I said you could mod a 486 into an Itanium monster for only $15 by:

1. Using a spare processor, power supply, motherboard, AGP video adaptor, ATA hard drive, etc.
2. Spending $15 on a ribbon cable to connect the hard drive to the motherboard, since you don't happen to have one of those handy.

Would you call that a real $15 upgrade?

Even if we all have PCs lying around the house, chances are we already have those PCs doing something else they are massive overkill. Sure, I can spare an old pentium, but then I'd lose my router...
Re:Of course it cost less than $50... by Anonymous Coward · 2003-01-02 05:05 · Score: 0

To read it correctly do this:

s/MySQL/SQL/

or even better:

s/MySQL/(I am a goddamn idiot) SQL/
Re:Of course it cost less than $50... by Anonymous Coward · 2003-01-02 05:24 · Score: 0

d) all of the above (who says rich people can't be in debt from loans too?)
Re:Of course it cost less than $50... by bbqBrain · 2003-01-02 06:32 · Score: 1

Sure you could do it...
INSERT INTO query_table (query_name, columns, from_clause, where_clause) VALUES ('GetHighScores', '*', 'high_score_table', '');
/\/\4d i/\/dir37i0/\/, y0!

--

One of the reasons that I became a lawyer was to avoid ever having to hire one. -SPYvSPY
Re:Of course it cost less than $50... by Anonymous Coward · 2003-01-02 07:00 · Score: 0

If you owe more than you can pay, then you're not rich.
Re:Of course it cost less than $50... by Splab · 2003-01-02 13:14 · Score: 1

Not quite true, MS doesn't give that much discount when doing student licensing. Think the macromedia is around $20-30 for students (yes, you have to sign off your soul to the devil, but thats a small price)
Re:Of course it cost less than $50... by buck_wild · 2003-01-02 16:56 · Score: 1

From reading the article, I think the intent was to take stuff the ordinary geek has laying around (in this case it included a foosball table) and modify a foosball table to give it some 'features' for under $50.

--
If all you have is a hammer, everything looks like a nail.

MM director for 50$ ? by Anonymous Coward · 2003-01-02 00:32 · Score: 0, Redundant

theres something wrong with the calculation, as the software costs more than $50 dollars.

Re:MM director for 50$ ? by Innominate+Recreant · 2003-01-02 02:35 · Score: 2

He didn't say it cost $50, he said he spent less than $50.

Cheaper option. by vilms · 2003-01-02 00:32 · Score: 5, Funny

Spend a tenner on a ball. Get some people together. Find some green space. Use jumpers as goalposts. Play football. Ask one player to keep score.
Afterwards, in the bar, assess each other's footballing ability in a haze of lager and spittle.
rinse and repeat.

Re:Cheaper option. by Hanji · 2003-01-02 02:28 · Score: 1

Yeah, but the geek factor is much lower that way.

--
A Minesweeper clone that doesn't suck
Re:Cheaper option. by Anonymous Coward · 2003-01-02 03:22 · Score: 0

what's a jumper?
Re:Cheaper option. by Asprin · 2003-01-02 03:29 · Score: 2

More specifically, it requires you to be able to "get some people together".

On the other hand, it might actually be possible to develop a sort-of geekiness scale to descibe for this sort of project using exchange rates to convert people, money and parts into a common currency of 'Geeks'.

To that end, I therefore propose the following first draft exchange rate schedule subject to negotiation, and (of course) public ridicule:

1 Geek for each potential human participant eliminated.
1 Geek for each $100 spent on hardware/parts.
-1 Geek for Each $500 spent on commercial software.
0.2 Geek for each year of age of legacy or vintage tech parts used (> 5 years).
1 Geek for each 1000 Lego(TM) blocks used.

1 Geek bonus if a new language (human or computer) resulted from the project.
1 Geek bonus for posting it on your web site.
3 Geek bonus for getting it posted on /.
5 Geek bonus if your web server doesn't melt as a result.
10 Geek bonus is your project *IS* the web server.

I'm sure we can flesh it out a little, but that's a start. so, let's try it out:
1......1 Human statistician eliminated
.5......$50 in parts
-.5......$250 in commercial software (Win2k + Access)
0......0 Legos
0......0 Legacy factor (old parts)
9......Posted on web site, made it to /., server didn't melt.
=====
So, by my calculation, this project rates 10 Geeks.

Not bad, but 90% of that rating comes from the publicity, so I think the scale needs some tuning. I guess the first thing we need to do is calibrate the scale by rating some standard projects so we can figure out what we want a standard 'Geek' to be.

--
"Lawyers are for sucks."
- Doug McKenzie
Re:Cheaper option. by Anonymous Coward · 2003-01-02 03:30 · Score: 0

The project was done at NYU. There is no green space in NYU.

This is the school that in most of their advertising, uses "Campus photos" that are actually pictures of a nearby (postage-stamp sized) park, carefully cropped so you don't see as much pavement as is actually in this park.

cool project by tps12 · 2003-01-02 00:38 · Score: 1, Troll

I was sort of dismayed to see how he seemed to stick with proprietary technologies like Windows and Director. Still, pretty fun project.

--

Karma: Good (despite my invention of the Karma: sig)

Re:cool project by RobotRunAmok · 2003-01-02 00:51 · Score: 2

I was sort of dismayed to see how he seemed to stick with proprietary technologies like Windows and Director.

My guess is he was familiar with these "dreaded" proprietary technologies and wanted to finish the project sometime before he graduated.

Often, the best tool for a job is the one you already have handy and know how to use. It was a foosball hack, afterall, and not a governmental census database for an emerging country, right?
Re:cool project by ContemporaryInsanity · 2003-01-02 06:47 · Score: 1

Agreed, he could've implement something very similar using an old 486 board running QNX or similar for not a great deal more money, or effort for that matter. I'd have found that more impressive

Spinning not officially allowed by Trillian_1138 · 2003-01-02 00:40 · Score: 3, Informative

According to the "Official Foosball Rules" that came with my foosball table (which came with the house when we bought it...) spinning is _not_ allowed in tournament games.

As I've never played a 'tournament' I play with spinning allowed, but YMMV.

-Trillian

Re:Spinning not officially allowed by fldvm · 2003-01-02 08:15 · Score: 1

If it is so easy to beat a spinner why is it not allowed in the "Official Foosball Rules?"
BTW is there really a such thing as professional foosball tournaments? Why is this not covered more on slashdot because this really fits "News for nerds"
I found this link http://www.foosball.com/learn/knowledge/chp2pro.ht ml

Re:Step 5 by carcosa30 · 2003-01-02 00:42 · Score: 0

No, I'm recovering from a rave I went to on new years eve. Such being the case, I'm probably overly ornery. Ah well. Fun is fun.

--
Intolerance for ambiguity is the mark of the authoritarian personality.

Tuition Re:Of course it cost less than $50... by kbs · 2003-01-02 00:44 · Score: 1

Well, no, it's more like $25,430... all of the other things come with tuition at NYU, presumably ;)

--
yours,
kbs

Beer Re:Cheaper option. by kbs · 2003-01-02 00:47 · Score: 0, Funny

With some, in order to actually get a haze of lager, it might get a bit more expensive.

-k

--
yours,
kbs

Not a troll, or an Anti-American post but.... by caluml · 2003-01-02 00:49 · Score: 5, Interesting

I'd love to know how it came to be called foosball?
Is it to do with the German way of spelling it, with that crazy B letter they have?
I've only ever known it as table football. In fact I couldn't work out what you were talking about at first :)

--
Get your own free personal location tracker

Re:Not a troll, or an Anti-American post but.... by Dammital · 2003-01-02 01:30 · Score: 3, Funny

Google for "history of foosball" and you get this.

Apparently it's a decades-old transliteration of the German word.
Re:Not a troll, or an Anti-American post but.... by Sircus · 2003-01-02 01:31 · Score: 3, Informative

Probably - ß actually stands for a double s. Thus, Straße can be written Strasse and Fußball can be written Fussball. I'd guess the 'oo' bit is either someone's misspelling based on football, or someone who thought it was 'Füßball' (note umlaut), which without German characters would be written 'Fuessball' and pronounced roughly 'Foosball' (though with a short 'a' - as in 'ran').

--
PenguiNet: the (shareware) Windows SSH client
Re:Not a troll, or an Anti-American post but.... by larien · 2003-01-02 01:33 · Score: 3, Interesting

I wondered that myself, and thought it was a type (on Slashdot? Never!). However, from here:
The original game we know as table soccer probably originated in Germany during the late 20's. early 30's
....
The German word for field soccer is ''football'' spelled FuBball .
The funny-looking ''B'' is pronounced like two S's. hence the many corruptions of that word still used in many sections to describe the game.
Re:Not a troll, or an Anti-American post but.... by Arkan · 2003-01-02 02:35 · Score: 1

French for this is babyfoot. Don't ask.

--
Arkan
Re:Not a troll, or an Anti-American post but.... by radish · 2003-01-02 02:36 · Score: 2

Even that's wrong - Football is English, German is Fussball. The "weird B thing" is a double-S, and can be written as ss (and is pronounced as you would expect). It's also important to note that the German is pronounced more like "ferssbAl" - note the hard A and that the U is more of an "er". If it had an umlaut (the two little dots over the letter) then it would really be "oo". The way it is usually said, the "b" almost ends up sounding like a "p".

--
---- Den ene knappen er powerknapp, den andre er Bender voice knapp "Bite My Shiny Metal Ass"
Re:Not a troll, or an Anti-American post but.... by radish · 2003-01-02 02:38 · Score: 2

First place I ever heard it called that was on Friends - I assumed they made it up in some earlier episode! However since then I have discovered that my american colleagues have a table in the office, and they too use the mispronounced german name. Strange, they keep the "table" bit even in Germany!

--
---- Den ene knappen er powerknapp, den andre er Bender voice knapp "Bite My Shiny Metal Ass"
Re:Not a troll, or an Anti-American post but.... by swb · 2003-01-02 03:16 · Score: 2

I always thought that the German 'u' transliterated as an "oo" sound to most Americans, while :U would most likely transliterate into something with more of an American e sound.

Although if that was true, we wouldn't call it Munich, we'd call Moernchen.
Re:Not a troll, or an Anti-American post but.... by Anonymous Coward · 2003-01-02 03:42 · Score: 1, Funny

while :U would most likely transliterate into something with more of an American e sound
Here in Texas the pronunciations of place names given by German immigrants seem to have no connection to how they sound in German.
Re:Not a troll, or an Anti-American post but.... by wossName · 2003-01-02 04:00 · Score: 1

I have no idea how Americans pronounce "foosball" or "ferssbal", but as a German I can say that the "u" in "Fußball" is pronounced like the "oo" in "spook" or "hoot". I can think of no way to pronounce "er" that comes close to that. And the "b" is absolutely not pronounced like a "p".

I'm guessing that "foosball" sounds very close to the german "Fußball", except for the "a".

--
Someone is wrong on the Internet!
Re:Not a troll, or an Anti-American post but.... by radish · 2003-01-02 04:19 · Score: 2

I obviously bow to your first language :) I have however got some german friends who say it differently, but, whatever! As for the umlat, I think I'm confusing my o-umlaut with my u-umlaut. And to think new year was 2 days ago, my brain still isn't working!

--
---- Den ene knappen er powerknapp, den andre er Bender voice knapp "Bite My Shiny Metal Ass"
Re:Not a troll, or an Anti-American post but.... by Sircus · 2003-01-02 04:28 · Score: 1

The rule for all the umlauted characters is that when you can't put the umlaut there, you put an e afterward.

Die Änderung -> Die Aenderung
(pronounced approximately "End-er-ung", the change), Die Lösung -> Die Loesung
("Ler-zung", the solution),
Die Übergabe -> Die Uebergabe ("Uwber-gabe" - like the sound on the end of the word "who", the transfer/handover).

Munich's proper name is München, so the transliteration's more like Muwnchen. The ch there isn't a 'ck' - think more of the softish 'ch' in 'Loch', not the hard 'ck' in 'lock'.

--
PenguiNet: the (shareware) Windows SSH client
Re:Not a troll, or an Anti-American post but.... by wossName · 2003-01-02 04:55 · Score: 1

Ah, that might explain it ! There are many different dialects in Germany, some (especially in the southern parts) downright incomprehensible to the rest. :)

The way I described it would be the dialect-free version.

Or did your friends talk about foosball on New Year's Eve ? :*)

--
Someone is wrong on the Internet!
Re:Not a troll, or an Anti-American post but.... by Anonymous Coward · 2003-01-02 07:37 · Score: 0

Table football is called 'kicker' in Germany, and football is 'Fussball'... the 'funny B' is generally dropped in modern German.
Re:Not a troll, or an Anti-American post but.... by Anonymous Coward · 2003-01-02 07:40 · Score: 0

table football is called 'kicker' in Germany.
Re:Not a troll, or an Anti-American post but.... by fczuardi · 2003-01-02 08:14 · Score: 1

In Brazil it's pebolim, or totó.
Re:Not a troll, or an Anti-American post but.... by enlavin · 2003-01-02 08:40 · Score: 1

"Futbolín" In Spanish :)

More or less like "little football".

--
-- char*p="char*p=%c%s%c;main(){printf(p,34,p,34);}"; main(){printf(p,34,p,34);}
Re:Not a troll, or an Anti-American post but.... by loquacious+d · 2003-01-02 09:00 · Score: 1

Interestingly, "football" and "foosball" are actually the same German word, borrowed at different times in the history of English. Back in the day (forget the actual time, circa 1200?), whenever we borrowed a word from German, we'd change their "crazy B letter"s to "t"s. A few cognates:
Straße => Street
Fuß => Foot
Scheiße => *ahem* Poo
Etc.

In modern times, however, we've began to borrow words more or less verbatim, as in the "fußball"/"foosball".

Of course, this is all from a 100-level linguistics course, so take with salt :)
Re:Not a troll, or an Anti-American post but.... by laurensv · 2003-01-02 14:42 · Score: 1

In some parts of Flanders (they speak Dutch over there), its called "frog", well not actually frog but kicker or kikker, where the second is a the dutch for ...frog. In the Netherlands is some whatr more boring called tafelvoetbal which as you can guess by now due to your fastgrowning knowledge of Dutch is just like you'd called tablesoccer.

You forgot... by ngkabra · 2003-01-02 00:49 · Score: 0

5. ???
6. Profit.

You should see a foosball tournament some day by idletask · 2003-01-02 00:53 · Score: 3, Interesting

I was in Nantes when the AFBF held the national foosball (called "baby foot" here) tournament. Balls were litterally flying around the table. I considered myself a pretty good player until I saw real champions play...

Also, the foosball table that the guy used is really gross... He should have used a real foosball table instead. Those plasticky tables just suck, no way to lock a ball.

Re:You should see a foosball tournament some day by whaley · 2003-01-02 03:22 · Score: 1

Actually I prefer the Topper table:
http://www.tafelvoetbal.nl/gallery/album02
any table that has slippery plastic balls sucks :-)
Re:You should see a foosball tournament some day by Anonymous Coward · 2003-01-02 06:35 · Score: 0

I guess this is what people who play foosball in france look like?

interesting

Where Can I Get... by Anonymous Coward · 2003-01-02 00:56 · Score: 1, Interesting

That plasma TV for under $50 bucks?

The Russian Linesman by GothChip · 2003-01-02 01:49 · Score: 2

When we play foosball we rule that the ball has to drop to the return slot to count as a goal. If it hits the back plate and bounces out again we just carry on and blame the Russian Linesman.

Kill The Spinners!!! by Botunda · 2003-01-02 01:50 · Score: 0

I totally agree with the parent. What I hate are the spinners that think that spinning is some sort of a strategy! "You're just mad at my spinning cause I keep getting it in!!" ARRRGH!!! Talk about wanting to strangle the ever-loving-shit outta some one! While I'm on people that I hate that play foos, do away with all the assholes that make a cheap five-man shot when you're playing one-on-one!

Re:Kill The Spinners!!! by Earl+Shannon · 2003-01-02 02:12 · Score: 1

I've always hated people who couldn't handle the five man shot and thought that the only way to fix that was to make it against the rules. As far as I am concerned if the ball goes in the goal its a score, no matter how it got there.

--
-- Some people say they can tell the time by looking at the Sun, but I have trouble seeing the numbers.
Re:Kill The Spinners!!! by Anonymous Coward · 2003-01-02 03:56 · Score: 0

I've always hated people who couldn't handle the five man shot and thought that the only way to fix that was to make it against the rules. As far as I am concerned if the ball goes in the goal its a score, no matter how it got there.

Ok, so if we play, I will promptly kick you in the nuts, then as you squirm on the ground I will repeatedly score.

Of course when I play with other people, I will follow the rules and refrain from the above, and spinning. Not only is spinning against the official foosball rules, but if you are good enough, you don't even WANT to do it. A good player can get a harder, more controlled shot by not spinning. You can break men and bend the bars with a non-spun shot. I mean on a good table too.
Re:Kill The Spinners!!! by AGMW · 2003-01-02 05:00 · Score: 1

Spinning's Bad, but as you (mostly all!) say, it's the peeps who aren't that good that tend to spin, so I just tell them it's not allowed, but if they score that's OK, as it'd be a cold day in hell before a spinner beat me anyway!
... and as for the so-called Five-Man Shot, I set my goaly and defenders to cover as much goal as possible, and if it goes in it's a goal. I can understand the annoyance if it's straight from the put-in (because I haven't been able to show my opponent how unbelievably good I am 'cos they've struck lucky!), but a goal's a goal, much like the real game, hell Maradonna even scored one in a World Cup with his hand, the stumpy Argentinian cheat!
My favourite trick is to score from my goaly, so I'm guessing I wouldn't like some Comp. Rules where you can only score from the front three!

--
Eclectic beats from Leeds, UK
handmadehands.co.uk

If the professor was smart to see the problem... by sporty · 2003-01-02 01:58 · Score: 2

4. Spend under $50.

5. Cost of union (onion :) workers to move the tv: $100

6. School cost of relicensing from MS-SQL to DB2, several thousand dollars.

7. Expression on student's face when his project doesn't work since he only spent $50: Priceless.

Seriously, doesn't the professor factor in the cost of other tools, such as the database and other software in?

--

-
ping -f 255.255.255.255 # if only

Foosball ranking system by Anonymous Coward · 2003-01-02 02:02 · Score: 0

This brings up the interesting topic of the ranking system. What if you always have random teams of 2 players - how do you rank individual players? We had the same problem at work and I came up a rather sophisticated perl script (I tried to append it to this post but slashdot's crappy filter wouldn't let me.. bleh). I'd like to hear about other people's solution to this problem.

Foosball?! by nmg196 · 2003-01-02 02:14 · Score: 0, Offtopic

What the fsck is "foosball"?!

It's Fußball, Fussball or Football surely - but not foosball! It comes from the German word.

Nick...

No spinning! by multiOSfreak · 2003-01-02 02:30 · Score: 1

Spinning is for skill-deprived cro-mags.

A spin detector would only be allowed on tables used by players that don't spin, and then it wouldn't serve much purpose. It's fun to think about though, especially if the "appropriate punishment" were to include a mild electrical shock.

--
Transistors and Beer!!

Re:Proprietary technologies by tps12 · 2003-01-02 02:31 · Score: 5, Funny

Uh oh. The guys in my frat (don't ask) used to play a form of foosball where if you were shut out then you put your name on the wall of shame, and played with your pants down until you scored a goal.

--

Karma: Good (despite my invention of the Karma: sig)

Re:Step 5 by Anonymous Coward · 2003-01-02 02:37 · Score: 0

I leave that to posterity to decide.

Why are you letting your ass decide, I mean I'm a guy and I know that my brain doesn't do a lot of thinking but letting my ass decide, that's just plain frea...oohhhh posterITY. Sorry still hungover.

Don't forget... by Stalemate · 2003-01-02 02:42 · Score: 1, Redundant

5) ??????
6) Profit!

Re:Don't forget... by Anonymous Coward · 2003-01-02 03:02 · Score: 0

1) Take a basenball bat up the ass
2) ???
3) Pain
4) You suck
5) You are not funny
6) Please don't try to crack jokes anymore

Re:Proprietary technologies by Lt+Razak · 2003-01-02 02:53 · Score: 1

Thank you sir, may I have another

Re: Step 5 by Anonymous Coward · 2003-01-02 02:57 · Score: 0

KILL YOURSELF!
KILL YOURSELF!
KILL YOURSELF!
KILL YOURSELF!
KILL YOURSELF!
KILL YOURSELF!

Lameness filter encountered. Post aborted!
Reason: Don't use so many caps. It's like YELLING.

Re:Proprietary technologies by CheechBG · 2003-01-02 02:58 · Score: 2

We had something similar with our friends (not Greek related). We all got together for a rousing game of caps (like quarters, for all you uneducated people out there). House rules stood as whomever got shut out had to run approx. 500 feet outside and back naked. Our friends (one of whom I'm sure will post here and corroberate) has a sign signed with all the names of those who ran, my name is on there :)

Oh lingua, oh mores by Anonymous Coward · 2003-01-02 03:20 · Score: 0

foosball ? Isn't it really called sokker ?

Re:Oh lingua, oh mores by Splab · 2003-01-02 13:17 · Score: 1

sucker? socker? yeah around that somewhere... You guys really ought to read the post the maker did... 9/10 of these comments could be avoided....

Innovation? by giel · 2003-01-02 03:45 · Score: 2

I'm very sorry, besides the header is a little misleading I don't see anything innovative or interesting in this project... Back in '87 I had a teacher who used an Acorn and some homebrewn hardware to measure the speed of moving objects and other 'scientific' stuff and then draw graphs of the data gathered.

What does this fussball table that a pinball machine doesn't? IMHO it is just a rather primitive two person pinball game. Oh yes, it reads smartcards, very impressive.

Anyway I can image it must have been fun to built it. And... NYU now can measure how much time their students spend on playing fussball.

--
giel.y contains 2 shift/reduce conflicts

Re:Innovation? by Anonymous Coward · 2003-01-02 03:56 · Score: 0

did you read the article? theres not smartcard here. it's just a magstripe. so he just bought
the dongle that plugged into the PS2 port on a standard PC.
Re:Innovation? by iuyterw · 2003-01-02 07:39 · Score: 2

What does this fussball table that a pinball machine doesn't?
Ummm...Allow you to play foosball?

All this technology?? by tartanboy · 2003-01-02 04:04 · Score: 2

You put all this technology into the table and don't even include a 'boo button' for when the other player gets a goal? Come on!! Nothing soothes a bruised ego like hearing the crowd boo the other guy.

Re:Proprietary technologies by Anonymous Coward · 2003-01-02 04:08 · Score: 0

I don't think that's actually foosball you were playing...

Some of us have to 5-man shoot to even things out by Vakara · 2003-01-02 04:10 · Score: 1

If you flip the bars around so the the game is oriented towards left-handed people instead of right-handed people, I'll stop scoring from the 5-man. Until that happens, quit yer bitchin - theres' nothing in the standard rules against it.

And the spinners do suck, but they seem to eventually figure out that it's sloppy and causing them to lose more games.

Webcam by p7 · 2003-01-02 04:27 · Score: 1

All he needed was a webcam and he could have made a much more sophisticated system. Could have kept track of a lot more data.

Re:Webcam by Anonymous Coward · 2003-01-02 11:57 · Score: 0

I'd like to se a webcam with a framerate high enough to accurately detect a goal.
Re:Webcam by buck_wild · 2003-01-02 17:04 · Score: 1

So how exactly would you track the goals, or other data) from a webcam?

--
If all you have is a hammer, everything looks like a nail.
Re:Webcam by p7 · 2003-01-03 05:47 · Score: 1

It is pretty simple. Mount the camera so it has a constant view of the field. The table they were using had a black field. Now a white ball should stand out like a sore thumb on that field. Do a search for roughly white pixels from each bitmap sent. Now you know where the ball is. If it enters a certain area you have designated as the goal you add a score. The only time I really see it as being a problem is on extremely fast hits where the ball bounces back out and I think you could come up with a ball tracking system that could solve that.
Re:Webcam by buck_wild · 2003-01-03 16:48 · Score: 1

Interesting. I didn't know you could do a search on an image file.

--
If all you have is a hammer, everything looks like a nail.
Re:Webcam by p7 · 2003-01-06 12:11 · Score: 1

I forgot this link last time, which I find really interesting.

Computers watching Football
http://www-white.media.mit.edu/vismod/de mos/footba ll/football.html

That wiring by littleghoti · 2003-01-02 04:31 · Score: 1

If I submitted wiring like that for my final electronics project, I would have been in lots of trouble. Why couldn't he keep it neat? It makes it so much easier to understand, looks nicer etc. A cool project is no excuse for sloppy workmanship.

Is this a hoax? by SethJohnson · 2003-01-02 04:48 · Score: 2

I only ask because there are no screenshots of the stats or score or anything like that. He's got a few pictures of some stuff in a tupperware box and a foosball table on its side. There isn't really a picture that proves this is anything more than an idea the guy had.

--
$5 / month hosted VPS on linux = awesome!

Re:Is this a hoax? by eshaft · 2003-01-02 08:00 · Score: 1

It's not a hoax, I saw it demo'ed for real.
It's very cool, and it worked pretty well.

Yeah, it's nice to have a plasma monitor lying around ;)

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lf.o
Re:Is this a hoax? by SethJohnson · 2003-01-02 09:55 · Score: 1

That's cool. Tell that guy to add more stuff to the site regarding the display. I'd like to see how he organized all the info. I mean, since he used Director, he could have done all kinds of crazy stuff so it would look like a damn FOX Sports coverage of a football game or something. I'm just curious.

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$5 / month hosted VPS on linux = awesome!

Junkyard Wars / Monster Garage meets Foosball by bcarlson · 2003-01-02 06:04 · Score: 1

This reminds me of the corny, and crappy kind of TV shows that have become (unfortunately) the norm on the Discovery Channel:

Budget: $50USD

1. 40" Plasma screen retails for approx. $10,995 - FREEBIE!!! (freebie! freebie! - the announcer yells)

2. Windows 2k Server to run on retails for $6995 - FREEBIE!!! (freebie! Scammed off of poor college student on eBay... just lucky he isn't a Mac user!)

3. Foosball table retails for $1200 - FREEBIE!!! (stolen from college cafeteria!)

jeez. When will it end.

Oh, yeah, and Director was swiped from some Warez site, right?

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"...I'll need guns" --Chow Yun-Fat in 'Replacement Killers'

Re:Proprietary technologies by Anonymous Coward · 2003-01-02 06:13 · Score: 0

Well that explains it. I always got funny looks when people would be talking about foosball and I'd complain about how it gave me a sore bum.

-tps

3 Goalies or 1 Goalie? by strictnein · 2003-01-02 06:29 · Score: 2

Here's another question:

What do you prefer, 3 goalies or one goalie?

Whenever playing with friends (with two people on a side) I always want to control the defensemen and the goalie (at which I do a frustratingly good job). I've always aboslutely detested tables with 3 goalies on them. They just don't make any sense in my opinion. There aren't three goalies in real soccer (football) and there are 11 guys on a side in real soccer (football), not 13.

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Casual Games/Downloads

Re:3 Goalies or 1 Goalie? by wodelltech · 2003-01-02 06:33 · Score: 1

The rod throw would be too far in order to allow a single-goalie to reach the corners... I guess the angled corners fix this, though.

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Your monitor is staring at you.
Re:3 Goalies or 1 Goalie? by Anonymous Coward · 2003-01-02 08:10 · Score: 0

The main three goalie table in North America is called the Tornado and is made by the Valley Dynamo Limited Partnership

Although championships exist all over the world for foosball and on all different kinds of tables, by far the most lucrative (in terms of cash) is the VIFA/USTSA tournaments that are run in North America and some parts of Asia.

The tables have three player figures on the goalie rod (the rod that holds the goalie in the center) but there is only one actual goalie. (if you take a look at the table, the goalie corner men do not actually reach the mouth of the goal, and the goalie cannot go beyond the edge of the goal mouth)

The problem this solves is the use of ramped or sloped corners of the playfield in order to avoid balls rolling to a stop, unreachable by any player figures in the corners. Although some tables have gotten around this by using ramped corners, this makes for unpredictable play from the surface of the foosball table, which is not something you want.

Unpredictability of the play surface and big money tournaments usually don't mix.

Here's a shameless plug for Canadian Foos :)

Not foosball by CodePoet80 · 2003-01-02 06:40 · Score: 1

It's fußball. And if you're scared of the "B" thingy, substitute it with its phonetically correct replacement: ss - fussball would be the proper spelling.

Re:Not foosball by Anonymous Coward · 2003-01-02 07:42 · Score: 0

Fußball or fussball is the real game, this table game is known as 'kicker' in Germany.

Bending rods.... by orim · 2003-01-02 06:58 · Score: 2, Insightful

At the old office we used to have a pretty nice table (ah, the dotcom days).
There was a "move" I was fond of, the squeezer. You just kinda pinch the ball between the player and the table, and then you just cranked hard. The ball just shot out, and the forward spin on it was incredible. Many a time you would score a goal after the ball hit the goalie/defender, and just spun right around him to the side, and into the goal.

The point being: I'd consider that an "advanced" shot, but it bends the hell out of the bars. Would you allow that?

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"If you could only see what I've seen with your eyes..." - Roy Batty

Re:Bending rods.... by pthisis · 2003-01-07 12:48 · Score: 2

There was a "move" I was fond of, the squeezer. You just kinda pinch the ball between the player and the table, and then you just cranked hard. The ball just shot out, and the forward spin on it was incredible. Many a time you would score a goal after the ball hit the goalie/defender, and just spun right around him to the side, and into the goal.

The point being: I'd consider that an "advanced" shot, but it bends the hell out of the bars. Would you allow that?

The backpin and frontpin squib are both legal, but they're not that effective at high levels of play. Also, you don't need to bend the rod much to shoot them--you can get the ball to shoot out just as fast with firm pressure rather than torquing the hell out of it, as long as you brush the rod off of the ball at the right speed/direction.

The kind of topspin you describe can be achieved on every shot with the right follow-through.

Basically the only time you'll see the backpin squeeze is from the goalie area--with enough practice, you can effectively pass to either side of the forward's 3-rod or shoot on goal with it. Even then it's usually limited to pick-up/funsy games as opposed to major tourney play.

Primary shots you'll see up front are the pull shot (with the middle man--including all straight, middle, long, and cutback/spray options), the snake (front-pin the ball, flip the man over and hit the ball--you can move it either direction), and the regular front-pin (which you can move either way). Less common but still seen are the push shot (with the middle man--harder to square off and effectively hit all the options than the pull), the push-kick (near man to middle man, plus dink options), the pull-kick, and tic-tac shots.

For the last 10 years I think every major tournament in the US (Worlds, Nationals, US Open, and Vegas Hall of Fame Classic) has been won by someone shooting a snake, pull, or front-pin. If there is an exception it's very uncommon. In the 70s and early 80s the push-kick and pull-kick were pretty successful as well, but nowadays literally everyone ranked in the top 200 who shoots a kick shot is over the age of 40--those shots have weaknesses that the snake, pull, and front-pin shots don't have. On european tables (grippier and slower) the front-pin is far more popular than in the US, but it's been gaining popularity here recently (since the top player in the world, Frederico Collignon, shoots it exclusively and has destroyed the US players in the last few years).

Popular funsy shots include the scorpion (bump off the near wall and brush at a steep angle into the goal, HARD), Texas T (chip the ball from a frontpin on the near man to the middle man and straight in, without moving the bar sideways at all), alien (two-handed push-kick that you slam with the left hand--hard to describe unless you see it), and the 3-to-5 smash.

Sumner

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rage, rage against the dying of the light

He should have disassembled the thing by Otto · 2003-01-02 08:03 · Score: 2

I have a foosball table similar to that one, albeit larger and heavier. In any case, once you get the case open, the ball invariably rolls down a smaller chute, one per side, to get to the bottom again. Sticking a sensor in that chute which would detect 100% of the time would be damn near trivial.

He should have spent the time to open it.

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- Give a man a fire and he's warm for a day, but set him on fire and he's warm for the rest of his life.

Am I allowed to respond to all of this? by dpstyles · 2003-01-02 09:28 · Score: 2, Informative

Am I allowed to respond to all the feedback I've gotten? 1. Yes, yes, yes... I know that SQL != MySQL. That was a typo. I worked on multiple projects this semster - some using SQL to talk to Access, others using a MySQL database. I hope all the haters out there can forgive my two-letter typo. :) 2. Yes, yes, yes... there are beter ways to do this than my ASP -> SQL -> XML scheme, but I threw most of the code together while on an Amtrak train from Boston -> NYC. Maybe when the semester kicks off again I'll revisit the code that drives the stats engine and clean it up a bit... but come'on, it works fine now, and hey, that's all that counts in my book. 3. To whoever suggested taking apart the table: You try it. That thing is hot-glued shut and I was not planning on taking a crowbar to our beloved foosball table. 4. And, and of course, to all the "less than $50" people... *of course* it didn't cost less than $50... it uses a flat screen and a dedicated box! The write up I threw together makes reference to spending no more than $50 on *new materials* so I could afford Christmas gifts. Give a kid a break! Um, I think that's about it. Meet me at the flagpole, 3pm sharp, if you want to discuss any other negative feedback. -- see, that's a joke. //dens dens@dodgeball.com ps: Thanks to all the postive feedback - esp the idea for dual-sensors in the goal, the mood of the players (no joke, there is a momentum meter built in which tracks unanswered goals), and to my favorite suggestion, the "boo" button. Ha!

Re:Am I allowed to respond to all of this? by psyclo · 2003-01-02 10:06 · Score: 1

OK, now you've answered all the questions, and I really like your solution. Very nice project for a college student. Flashy and useless :-) but fun to play with. It also looks like something that could potentially be packaged up and marketed as a product (Convert YOUR foosball table into a high-tech masterpiece today!). Of course you would sell it for much more than $50. :-)

Have fun!

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Psyclo, the dark night.
Mike, the computer geek.

Amazing Foosball Players by Anonymous Coward · 2003-01-02 09:47 · Score: 0

Check out the videos on this site to see the most amazing foosball playing! Never seen anything else like it.
www.bonziniusa.com

Re:Amazing Foosball Players by Licensed2Hack · 2003-01-02 16:01 · Score: 1

Or here or buy some tapes from here.

Re:Teh Foosball?!?! by Anonymous Coward · 2003-01-02 09:49 · Score: 0

Stupid moderator never saw "The Waterboy."

Soviet Russia by Anonymous Coward · 2003-01-02 09:56 · Score: 0

In Soviet Russia, the foosball table mods YOU!

Foosball by kentheee · 2003-01-02 10:50 · Score: 1

First of all spinning is for hacks and people who don't really play foosball. The project was an intresting one that seemed like fun to do. I would have prefered to use an optical light source and sensor rather than the mechanical devices to sense the ball scoring. As for the rest it would seem that a simple database program written in Visual Basic or C++ would work better than what you could do with director or what ever program he used. The card reader is unnessecary, but it is a neat idea, a fingerprint reader however would be better. Players could just sign in on a computer screen to keep the costs down. A computer is required for the system anyway.

no one's thought of this yet?? by psoriac · 2003-01-02 11:15 · Score: 1

no no, it's:

5. Profit!

Sorry, it seemed so blatantly obvious, and I hadn't seen it yet.

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I browse Slashdot at +3, Funny

cost by emkman · 2003-01-02 11:33 · Score: 2

my foosball table came with a scoreboard, timer, prewired goal sensors, and a cool center ball launcher(optional of course), and the whole thing only cost 60$

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Moderation Totals: Flamebait=2, Troll=1, Redundant=1, Insightful=6, Overrated=1, Underrated=1, Total=12. (not mine)

Re:cost by kentheee · 2003-01-03 01:30 · Score: 1

Any table for $60 is not a real table anyway.

No Cheap 5-man hack here by Licensed2Hack · 2003-01-02 15:26 · Score: 1

I'd love to play foos against you 1-on-1 some time. You would never call my 5-man hack "cheap". I shoot it in doubles, also.

20+ years playing pro tournament foos...

Re:Proprietary technologies by Licensed2Hack · 2003-01-02 15:46 · Score: 1

That's called getting "booked", as in "Book 'em, Dano!" from the '70s show _Hawaii 5-0_. On the Valley/Tornado foosball table 5 points wins, so a shutout means the score is 5-0.

Linux Version.... by Tsali · 2003-01-02 16:02 · Score: 2

... you could probably do something similar with...

a) A plane old computer lying around (I'd even say a 486)
b) Your favorite distro.
c) Java.
d) You could run a clotheshanger through the bottom of the goals and make it complete a circuit when depressed. This could link up to a $5 gamepad or other cheesy input device.
e) IIS? SQL? For Foosball? You could probably get away with plain text to keep track of things. If he was tracking velocity, shot placement, shot location, angle, number of beers.... well, I don't know how he'd get it. But if its just win-loss-ties, how hard could it be?

The ID reader was a slick idea though. I'll have to try out a shoppers club card on it.

Too bad my table sucks.

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This space for rent.

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High-Tech Foosball Mod Project

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