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Microsoft's Reaction to OSS Adoption
inode_buddha writes "Eric S. Raymond has the eighth "Halloween" memo available here. It looks like Microsoft is really beginning to notice the national and corporate movement towards FS/OSS, and is reacting accordingly."
In a recent ZDNet article, ZDNet write/predicts that Linux will this year or perhaps next overtake Apple's OS to become the second most common desktop OS. Microsoft simply seems to be reponding to this increasing pressure, which as the ZDNet article point out, is coming as more government's switch over to Linux.
Lawrence Lessig is my personal hero.
...or would everyone have preferred a version without ESR's comments and opinion, so that we could form our own?
Feel that power? That's mah MOUSING FINGER
The eighth Halloween memo?
Sheesh. ESR needs to find a new hobby.
Dragging people kicking and screaming into reality since 1996.
Looks to me like this has a lot to do with perception. PArt of MS' deal is that they have lots of mindshare. If the people realize that they HAVE options in terms of office and OS, then they certainly will at least explore those options. MS needs to keep people thinking that MS is the only way to get something done, so this memo is no surprise IMHO. Interesting though anyway.
Is Jamie Lee Curtis going to be in this one? I think that the other memo's lost something when she wasn't in them.
That's what they get for living like assholes. Bill Gates has 7 kitchens and around 70 bathrooms! Shit, If I was a billionare I wouldn't even have 1 bathroom. I'd just be like "clean me up, come on 1,000 bucks to the first person to wipe my ass.
If I were in a leadership spot at MS...I'd release a slightly different memo to various depts, just to narrow down where the leaks are coming from and eventually just release different ones to people in that department, finding out who is doing it
That is, assuming that these links aren't on purpose =)
Y'know whenever I have problems with a piece of Open Source Software I like to turn to one of my favourite directories on my Unix system. /usr/share/man/ /usr/share/man has many helpful hints and tips for those new to the wondrous world of Unix and Free Software.
That's right -
January 2, 2003
From: William Gates III
To: All Employees
The sky is falling!
Thank you,
- Bill
Trolling is a art,
The memo is mildly interesting, but ESR is growing more shrill and childish with each passing year. GOOD LORD a company is exploring how to compete with other products?? ALERT THE PRESS.
Sheesh, maybe Microsoft is good for some things, and OSS is good for other things. And to talk like Microsoft is going to "lose" with $40 billion dollars in the bank is ludicrous at best.
Fah, ESR is not as annoying as RMS (that is, of course, impossible), but he seems to be heading down the path.
Sometimes it's best to just let stupid people be stupid.
I find this 'fear' quite enlightening. It's about time MS felt *some* form of competition. They were getting a little too miserly and stifling innovation. (i.e. HOW long has Mozilla had tabbed browsing and ad-suppression? *When* might IE?)
It's also nice that quite a few companies, such as Lindows.com, are taking a bite out of MS's Law Creation/Politician Acquisition fund by suing them over patent abuse and/or common-name copyrighting.
Hopefully the "little people" in the market will have more of an effect on MS than the DoJ.
You don't expect anyone to willingly allow themselves to become prejudiced by that crank ESR's running commentary in green (bracketed for the color blind.) ESR is what Linus and Lenin before him called 'a useful idiot.'
We need to more effectively respond to press reports regarding Governments and other major institutions considering OSS alternatives to our products.
Yeah, this is just what I want to do: Make a decision on IT issues and then issue a press release on it. All this will get me is Microsoft knocking on my door asking me for some of my time so that they can attempt to sell me on a product. Look, if I made my decision already to go with OS X, Linux, or whatever, I don't want somebody second guessing my decisions and trying to get me to change my mind.
Visit Jonesblog and say hello.
I don't get it.
Is Microsoft actually dumb enough to write memo after memo about something they now have admitted is their biggest threat and allow all of these memos to leak so the opposition can read them?
I was never sure about the first Halloween memo. The more that are "discovered" the more I wonder if these are truly from M$ (they must be released by our old friend, Mr. Source, or Reliable to those that know him well).
More and more it reminds me of P.D.Q. Bach -- the least of all the Bachs. There's no evidence he existed except from Peter Shickele, who keeps finding more and more works composed by this supposed composer.
While it is a little scary to have the proverbial 10,000th pounded gorilla coming after you, I think we should be happy that we're starting to make the fat cats at Micro$oft nervous.
In the past, Linux has been mostly ignored by Evil Bill and company. It made sense. Like *BSD these days, we had such a small install base that we didn't really pose much of a threat. But in the past year or two, Linux has really started to explode. It's popping up on servers, PDAs, hell, even cash registers. Suddenly, we're a force to be reckoned with.
What we need to do now is strike while the iron's hot and go for the kill. We've got them running scared, and I think one final push is all it will take to bury Windows forever, another tombstone on the side of the fabled Information Superhighway. I plan to do my part by open sourcing all of my non-sensitive projects and donating a token amount to the FSF each year. I encourage others to do more.
Karma: Good (despite my invention of the Karma: sig)
the memo outlines perfectly healthy organizational function. it's exactly what MS should be doing. if those folks actually function that way, they've moved up a few notches in my esteem.
My question is, if Linux overtakes MacOS on the desktop, can Microsoft continue to justify to it's shareholders the reasons behind not making Office for Linux?
They can't say there isn't a market if they make Office for a *less* popular OS.
(It's not that I actually want nor need Office for Linux.. but it's something I'm curious about)
You eventually give up and use it. Think about things you have resisted in your life but you eventually started to use it and LIkE IT! Common examples are the metric system adoption, usb devices, iso 8601, and so on. The better system may be hated and resisted at first, but it usually succeeds and linux is the next one.
Who cares any more? Clearly, free software has now risen to the point where competing software makers take it into account in their planning. Eric Raymond periodically gets his hands on some entirely routine memo from Microsoft and spins it into some apocalyptic confrontation between Good and Evil. He needs to lay off the Lord of the Rings, I think.
Actually, the memo is funny in its concern. Basically, it deals with the fact that when some government considers switching a few servers to Linux, or some legislator proposes an open-source-only policy, Slashdot and the rest of the Linux media turn it into "INDIA SWITCHING TO LINUX!" AND "NORWAY SWITCHING TO LINUX!" It's not nearly as much deliberate spin as it is complete journalistic incompetence and the inability to read linked articles, but it's an effective enough fUD technique that Microsoft feels compelled to respond to it. ;-)
What I'm listening to now on Pandora...
That in reference to a misspelling in the memo. That's some pretty juicy stuff they found there.
Sex - Find It
Microsoft's Reaction to OSS Adoption? More like CELDA!
doesn't it seem to anyone that these things may have been leaked on purpose? i just have the feeling the community is being manipulated here.
granted, ms is evil... but it isn't stupid. it only wants people to think it is.
Miscrosoft is just behaving like any other company would when threatened by competition, be it OSS or other...
does anyone think microsoft should publish an oss version of windows? this would be teh shit for developers to fool with
Why does opensource have to translate everything? I might not be able to spell but I can read. Nothing new really. M$ has been at this for a while.
The document may be boring, but you're a 14-year-old dumbass.
... running a normal business. Microsoft is a business that is looking to make money. Goverments and Corporations moving to Linux and Star Office means less money for them. They are trying circumvent that. Can you blame them?
This is an unusual Halloween memorandum in that it's not particularly redolent of evil.
Was this newsworthy? Microsoft definitely does not have a monopoly on servers. Also they are beginning to lose their grasp of a monopoly on the desktop. They realize this, why doesn't everyone else.
"It takes many nails to build a crib, but one screw to fill it."
Now look at the last couple of documents. They are totally different beasts of virtually no importance or interest; ESR simply calls them Halloween documents in order that they will garner interest on the back of the original docs. Look at the seventh one - it is the result of a market research project. Why is this grouped under the same umbrella as MS talking about unethical monopolistic practices?
Eric: When you get some interesting, shocking documents leaked from Microsoft, please feel free to publicise your Halloween documents. If all you get is this boring tripe, feel free to publish it, but just call it "leaked MS email" or something.
In short, I agree with the parent - get a fucking life ESR.
Andrew-Gargon.
Only you - in your sub-infinitesimal Testicular prowess could possibly have created a clone of the very first post on this here discussion topic.
Indeed - it was a version of your Muon Tract Induction machinery that brought us all to this very place in space and time.
You seek now to ultra Invert the Bacon, Cheese and Ham Continuum in the name of all things un-GODLY?
Yes... Only you. Deno-Inverteron.
Only You...
I don't really see anything that sinister here. It looks like a typical memo defining a procedure for responding with "one voice" to a business challenge that Microsoft faces. Frankly, I'd be surprised if they weren't having these kind of discussions.
Some of the comments seem unecessarily shrill to me. Example:
Name the key contacts within the gov't
{Translation: Who can we suborn?}
Providing a list of people to contact does not imply suborning (from m-w.com "to induce secretly to do an unlawful thing") to me. How is it unlawful to contact a customer who might be going to a competitor and trying to convince them to reconsider?
Don't get me wrong - I'm excited to see governments looking at Linux and Open Source as an alternative. I just don't think it serves anybody's best interest to take a pretty routine memo and try to turn it into the Pentagon Papers.
** The opinions expressed here are my own, and do not reflect those of my employers - past, present, or future**
Unfortunately with Microsoft's past history it goes more like, first they ignore you, then they laugh at you, than they fight you, than you roll over or are obliterated.
~~ What's stopping you?
Doesn't it make anyone a little suspicious that Microsoft is on their eigth halloween document in 4 years? There's only been 4 halloweens!
Comment removed based on user account deletion
Deliver, at minimum, guidance and messaging regarding any new instance within the same business day of your mail being received, including WW communication to prepare all subs
Is it just me, or does this paragraph sound like something from War Games movie? Subs - submarines. Guidance and messaging. WW - World War.
Holly shit! Is Microsoft preparing for a real war on everyone that go with OSS? I think I'll be preparing that bunker of mine that I have on the backyard just for such an occasion before they call an airstrike!
You can't handle the truth.
This sound's like Micro$oft's attempt to keep the news of OSS acceptance into the world at bay, and if not then to debunk it's worth in the eyes of the news savy readers. Joe User doesn't give a rat's @ss about this, but one day he will finally see something different of the shelves and the advertisement flyer's of CompUSA and Best Buy that wasn't there before. The readers of /. already know the benefits of OSS and Linux, but Joe User will need to be kicked and dragged to see the light, and it will burn.
Everyone knows that OSS will be more wide accepted when the user will not have to decrypt configuration files. It might, and I repeat, MIGHT be better to go to an XML based configuration file so they could also be editable through a, dare I say it, GUI? Don't flame me, but most people, including I prefer to use GUIs since it's almost idiot proof so I don't miss-type that comma or underscore. We also know how powerful the command line is when we know what we want. Again, Joe User doesn't want to see a command line. I don't much about cars, but I can drive my truck all day long, refill with gas and continue of my way. That's the way Joe User wants it, and should be. I prefer Linux because it has many many more knobs for me to tweak to my liking.
Anywho, let me get back to the path about MS trying to subvert the truth about OSS. OSS will be more widely accpetable when Joe Admin User can configure his machines easier with a GUI instead of configuration files and look-n-feel feels more "professional" and maybe more high-tech looking instead of the Fisher Price look-n-feel. Yes, eye candy does go a long way.
Now... I am ready for your bashing.
I wonder if the "mistakes" in the memo like "ecome" instead of "Become" and the bullet are just there to help MS identify where the leaks come from. Maybe something on the mail server introduces random errors that they can track.
nonsig. unsig. desig.
There always the possibility that some at MS realize that the OSS movement is representative of a sea change in the software industry, not a trend shift.
There's a possibility that some people realize this, too.
"We are all geniuses when we dream"
- E.M. Cioran
No company would normally allow EIGHT such memos to be leaked out. There are 2 options: Either these memos are not from Microsoft, which sounds weird, because I bet they would have a press release concerning the "fake memos". This leaves us the 2nd option: They are being leaked on purpose. This all looks like some sort of clever manipulation, but I am not that interested in the subject to start doing deep analysis of all the memos trying to find specific clues.
Anyone who is more competent than I am can probably do it.
Not to mention that their security 'sucks dead maggots through a straw.' Having run out of actual things to call Microsoft upon, it's nice to see the bulwarks of OSS are reduced to such as this.
Maybe one of these days I'll try out some dead-equine-flagellation myself; it seems to be awful fun. Happens so much around here, I MUST be missing out on something....
Vintage computer games and RPG books available. Email me if you're interested.
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I get all my opinions straight from RMS.
He am teh smart!
"Linux has no user-level applications to speak of."
That slashdotters find the above statement "insightful."
Sdelat' Ameriku velikoy Snova!
After all, it would only be War version 1.0. :-D
Though it would be funny seeing a bunch of subs spelling out '0wn3d' after they opened the Word document containing their battle orders.
--- I wish I could hear the soundtrack to my life. That way I'd know when to duck.
Don't give them that Idea. That would destroy linux if M$ launches Office for Linux 20003.
Very nicely done sir.
Questions about annotation and authenticity are covered in the faq here.
Don't know how valid the answers are, but there's something to look at...
Eric S. Raymond was arrested today by the FBI for being in posession of confidential documents from Microsoft corporation. Microsoft has charged that posession is tantimount to industrial espionage and violates the DMCA.
"I find the whole matter deeply disturbing and troubling that this confidential document ended up in the hands of this individual. Obviously, intellectual and ownership rights have no meaning to the 'Linux' crowd and it just goes to show you their true mettle", said Microsoft spokesperson Nyles Forebush in an exclusive interview to Slashdot's Cowboy Neil.
Mr. Raymond is being held without bail at the federal penetentiary in Milan, Michigan.
GOOD LORD a company is exploring how to compete with other products??
M$ doesn't compete with other products, it eliminates them. When it can't eliminate the competition (in the case of linux), it FUDs or sues them to death. I strictly believe to compete with a product is to make a better product. That's just my $0.02
I don't see how his inline comments add anything to the memo that we wouldn't have gotten from it if he hasn't simply quoted it sans-editorial. In fact, his comments look less like clarification and commentary than simple whining. He should read "Eric Raymond's tips for effective open source advocacy" some time. ;-)
I also am surprised that he acts almost insulted by the memo. What did he expect, Microsoft would support OSS? The phrase "free software" gets the same reaction from Microsoft as the phrase "free cars" would get from Ford. Don't fault the rattlesnake for biting.
Interesting, somewhat entertaining, but hardly objective or insightful. Eric S. Raymond could follow their organizational lead rather than pander. In many cases I have seen, the better idea loses out because the presenter lacks communication skills.
A feeling of having made the same mistake before: Deja Foobar
From: Orlando Ayala
Sent: Monday, November 25, 2002 5:22 AM
To: GMs of Subsidiaries
Cc: Mich Mathews; Mike Nash; Craig Mundie; Brad Smith (LCA); Pamela Passman (LCA); Vivek
Varma; Orlando Ayala's Direct Reports
Subject: OSS and Goverment
We need to more effectively respond to press reports regarding Governments and other major
institutions considering OSS alternatives to our products. We must be prepared to respond to
announcements, such as this one by the Japan Government (or prior announcements in Peru,
Germany etc) quickly and with facts to counter the perception that large institutions are
deploying OSS or Linux, when they are only considering or just piloting the technology.
Announcements by governments are reported quickly around the world and require more
coordination. In several instances, our ability to communicate effectively has been hindered
by a lack of integration across groups in Redmond and the subsidiaries.
What to Escalate: Any instance of government organizations and significant corporate
customers who are planning to study, support or deploy OSS including Linux and Star Office
that is likely to generate media attention (as differentiated from the COMPHOT alias). Any
media coverage detailing the real or expected announcement of a government organization of
corporate customer to study, support or deploy OSS.
How to Escalate: Send an email immediately (same day) to the OSSI alias. This group includes
members from the Security Business Unit, Server Marketing, LCA and Corporate PR who can
quickly pull in additional stakeholders, influence business decisions, create and
communicate PR guidance. Your mail should include the following information:
# Designate the subsidiary owner (s) and their 24 hour contact information
# Explain the overall validity of claim, what is being reported, what is true/false
# Explain how and where the organization fits within govt structure (is it a
small/medium/large department, how much influence does it have on other IT decisions, are
their political influences at play, is there a commitment to deploy, what are the specific
details of the announcement, what are the next steps)
# Explain likely influences, bottom line reasoning on why this is happening (i.e. security,
cost, politics)
# Explain Microsoft's presence in the account
# Name the key contacts within the gov't
# Name available third parties/potential defenders
# Provide detail on the writer and their media who are writing the story, i.e. are they
technical, political, sensational
The Commitment From Corporate:
# Deliver, at minimum, guidance and messaging regarding any new instance within the same
business day of your mail being received, including WW communication to prepare all subs
# Follow up with additional guidance, messaging and content within a second business day,
including customer and government communication tools
# ecome much better in giving messaging and content proactively on OSS and Linux related
issues.
# Todd and MarkM to coordinate with SueB on Mike Nash participation in Linux business press
tour
Orlando
But how does www.internalmemos.com get away with it then? Does Pud have some kind of voodoo that keeps the lawyers away?
It isn't a particulary exciting memo and doesn't say much - ESR says so himself. So perhaps he just can't be bothered writing insightful comments all the way through (after all there is only so much you can say). He has to write something (see comments from the start, or read his faq) and so just writes light banter. He didn't say anything false, or anything with too strong a bias, just made some poor jokes - it's what I probably would have done.
I am so confused I don't know what to do.
(1) I agree with your implicit point about ESR... he sucks live maggots through a hose, surely, to offer immature comments as "analysis".
(2) I don't think the equine is dead yet, the equine is Microsoft, right, and they are hardly breaking a sweat, and if they are, it's from their own girth and not from "the beating" that they have yet to recieve.
(3) tangozone.com is down.
-pyrrho
from a pure valuation standpoint, the returns that MS share holders recieve come from the monopoly tag team in both upstream and downstream markets (the OS and the application). to weaken that link would dramatically change the dynamics of the free cash flow forcasts going forward.
that is to say nothing of the signalling effect that it would have in the market. begining to sell office for linux be taken as a very pessimistic signal about MS management's view of their relative strenth.
the stock would take a beating and the lawsuits would fly. at this point i'm pretty sure it would do nothing if not make a train wreck of the equity value.
ESR marked all his comments with div.c1.comment. If you don't want to see them, just change the color to transparent. Get a clue.
This memo and ESR's idiot commentary have convinced me once and for all that, when it comes to GNU, Linux, and Open Source, neither MS nor ESR matter anymore if they ever did.
MS makes their software and lost of people use it. If they make Office for Linux, lots of people will use that until OpenOffice shows itself to be much better. Meanwhile, those who run Linux will continue to run Linux and (like me) will switch their parents, friends, and children over to Linux so that we don't have to do tech support for family Windows machines.
ESR will continue to rant and rave like a frothing maniac until people stop listening. Reminds me of software that falls out of use because it is a remnant of the past and hasn't kept pace with how things are today. ESR will be replaced by someone else who won't sound like a high school freshman.
Until then, I'll just keep learning Linux.
Yeah, I'm as old as my UID would suggest.
Ah, but therein lies the rub; he DOESN'T need to 'write something;' he can comment where comments are called for, and leave the rest to be. Hell, he could admit that they're not being dirty and deceptive anymore, they're just being good little capatailists and reacting to threats, the way, well gosh, the OSS community does, too.
Vintage computer games and RPG books available. Email me if you're interested.
Her boss will find it much better that she can't use company time to play "Hoyle Card Games", organise her pictures and manage her finances.
On the other hand, not having to pay for the next Windows and the next Office on your wife's workstation may really call her boss attention.
Nobody is talking about personal machines. Those will follow in some years, with the growing demand by corporate users to have exactly the same tools at home.
Yes, it is true, Microsoft actually did write these memos.
They were written by a group of individuals in the DTPOSF department (Distract Those Pesky Open Source Flunkies) and leaked to Slashdot for the purpose of slowing down progress.
By getting all of us to stop what we're doing, comment on how stupid they are and how much they phear us, they have accomplished exactly what they were organized to do - distract us.
So quit your gawking and get back to coding, we have an empire to destroy...
---
Dazzle them with brilliance, baffle them with Windows(tm).
Microsoft is really beginning to notice.
It seems that the author also doesn't believe in these reports.
2: Nah, I refer to Microsoft bashing.
3: I know, it's a real drag. I just got finished updating/altering my sig and what not.
Vintage computer games and RPG books available. Email me if you're interested.
You know what, AC? If something like that did happen, it would be unfortunate and would hurt on an emotional level, but as far as real effects go, it wouldn't mean jack. Open Source is bigger than Linus Torvalds, it's bigger than Alan Cox, it's bigger than Jordan Hubbard, it's bigger than any "superstar" you'd care to name.
This is the beauty of Open Source. It's not the proprietary creation of any one person or company. If Linus had a heart attack (Goddess forbid!) or whatever, there will be others stepping up to the plate to keep it going. And the source code isn't a big, deep, dark secret in someone's vault. No, it's available EVERYWHERE. A project need not die when the "key man" dies or becomes incapacitated.
Some genius in St. Petersburg or New Delhi or Beijing or Chiang Mai or Edinburgh or Toronto or West Bumblefsck Tennessee could be out there and take over tomorrow morning if his/her skillz are 'leet enough. The next F/OSS coder superstar could be your next door neighbor and you might not even know it.
This is why MS is running so scared now. Actually it's more like the Federation facing down The Borg rather than the other way around. The Enterprise can destroy a single Borg colony ship, but there are others out there. Kill the Borg Queen? Her successor could come from any given Borg incubator, and you wouldn't know where it was to strangle that baby in its crib. You cannot fully eradicate termites and fire ants from an ecosystem they have colonized.
WE ARE EVERYWHERE! Resistance is futile!
MamasBorg
"But you've already got a DVD. It lasts forever....In the digital world, we don't need back-ups..."
-- Jack Valenti
...or do we all miss the "Surprized by Cock" trolls of a year or more ago? Of course at the time it was a spoof of "Surprized by Wealth", ESR's rambling and egotistical rant about money that fell on his head, but of course since then VA Linux stock went in the shitter and he's now just "Surprized by Once-Was Wealth".
...even ones that are running on today's Windows have no guarantee that they will run on tomorrow's Windows either. Hell, even MS's own apps already have a thoroghly established track record of not cooperating between versions, so that whole argument is nonsense.
perhaps I'm mistaken, but isn't P.D.Q. Bach just different people doing slightly modified Bach, all under the label of 'P.D.Q. Bach '?
I am probably wrong, because I have only heard people talking about it, and heven't listen, but that sure was the impression they gave me.
The Kruger Dunning explains most post on
This makes me wonder how a company and pin point the leakage.
If the number of recipients of a message of this type is not too large, the sender could always have say a trusted secretary reword slightly some of the sentences so that each recipient receives a different memo with the same content. Then when the leak gets out, you just match it up to the person.
"Not knowing when the dawn will come, I open every door." - Emily Dickinson
Maybe a little... The newest versions are a hell of a lot easier to maintain. (Opinion here)
Especially since users can access the apps through Mozilla/netscape. Makes deployment pretty easy.
I was running SAP (GUI interface) off it in like 5 minutes.
One problem with Citrix though is that you need terminal server licenses from MS. So that can cut into the money savings.
Sean D.
"Hmm. I am to metaphor cheese as metaphor cheese is to transitive verb crackers!"
I'd ensure a lot of false memos came out to confuse people. Memos that'd say exactly what people expected.
.
;)
Then I'd plan my REAL strategy . .
Just a thought
"The Sage treasures Unity and measures all things by it" - Lao Tzu
Life's hard being a pimp, so maybe a wardrobe change is in order for Microsoft.
Gentoo rules!
- IP
Funny, how internal microsoft strategy letters, with their abbreviations and paramilitary jargon and posturing, resemble internal Scientology memos.
http://www.xenu.net/
If MS wants to "win" this "war", all they have to do is port their apps to Linux. MS Office, Exchange, Outlook, .NET, etc.
If they do that, they win. People like their apps, or at the very least they're used to them. If they port, one of two things will happen:
1. Everyone will migrate to Linux, but run MS apps (unlikely, but MS just becomes an app farm instead of an OS farm. Big change, but MS gets to live on.)
2. People say, "Hey, I can run MS apps on Linux, and it's cheaper! But wait, they're probably more tightly integrated into their own OS. And they have better support. Hmm, it's probably worth it just to buy the whole package. Less work, too."
I mean, MS still will always have the Joe Schmowe desktop users as long as they control OEMs and maintain their humongous inertia. (Remember, inertia is what keeps alive the x86 monster.) So their worry is for big institutions defecting. If the institution has a very high priority on saving money (e.g., a government), they're going to go to Linux or similar anyway, so MS should just try to keep what slice of the pie it can by porting its popular apps, and actually making some use of its inertia. But if the institution wants a whole pre-packaged, integrated license deal, they're going to go MS all the way because no one else comes close to the app/OS integration they do. (This is similar to what Sun does, selling their hardware and Solaris all at once. And they don't have MS Office!) Heck, MS apps and OS are so integrated, even MS can't pick them apart! They don't know their dll/exe dependencies any better than we do!
Further, MS will get good publicity because they can no longer be so easily derided as anti-competitive. Who cares if the source isn't open? The media and Joe User can't pick up on subtleties like that, and when OSS zealots start crying foul, Joe User will just think they have a stick up their ass, ruining their public image. Joe User doesn't care about source. Joe User will never read a line of source or compile a single app in his life. Joe User gets his software in a BOX. At COMPUSA!
If MS ports its apps to Linux, MS wins, plain and simple. If they just get over this "Not Invented Here" stupidity, they are unstoppable. If they don't, they'll die the death of a thousand pinpricks.
(Hey, I just thought of something! Maybe MS should roll their own Linux distro, too!)
Since linux is free there is no count of registered users.
I think there is atleast 4 times more linux users than apple.
I have my inlaws and wife running on linux and they are not registered.
First they ignore you, then they laugh at you, then they fight you, then you win.
This Ghandi quote seems like a prudent way to start the article. many self confessed geeks see the OSS cause as a revolution of comparable importance with revolutions of a more conventional political nature. Micro$oft can be seen as the established power structure which has grown greedy and corrupt, and OSS is the 'will of the people', wishing to wrestle it'self free from tyrany.
It is easy to get caught up in the spirit of jihad, but if the 'war' against Micro$oft's monopoly is to succeed then such an endulgance is counter-productive. M$ is just another corporation going about it's business. I expect that many of it's employees truly believe that they are making the world a better place. The fact that many people disagree with M$ can be countered with the standard corporate arguments: 'we generate wealth for all', 'we drive innovation', and 'you are all un-American commies and terrorists'.
It appears to me that the struggle between OSS and proprietary software is just one of the front lines in the struggle between corporate consumerism and everything else. When an entity as large and powerful as M$ begins to take the threat seriously one can expect things to heat up. Already we see M$ and others bending the machinery of states to their will, such things are done in the name of freedom, security and prosperity. It is tempting to ask: whose freedom, security and prosperity?
I guess this is turning in to a bit of a rant, so I'll wind it up now. As the article states we have moved into the 3rd stage (see above quote) of the struggle. Don't be tempted into thinking that OSS is therefore halfway to winning. I think we can expect future Skylarovs to be imprisoned, more DMCAs and some laughably draconian laws enacted in the name of freedom on the behalf of the corporate opressors. This is as much a struggle of ideologies as of competing technologies or development models, and one the general public is totally unaware of. I think OSS will win the day, but it will take decades and participants on both sides will suffer.
Disclaimer: I am not a communist, terrorist or anti-capitalist. Any opinions expressed here are just that: opinions. If you don't like it then reply or mod me down
This user is a known astroturfer anyway (for those not familiar with the term, an "astroturfer" is a Microsoft-paid agent tasked to go out and visit Web sites and write letters to newspapers to show "spontaneous support" for Microsoft and their products, when, in fact, it is anything but "spontaneous.")
I think Microsoft leaks these things so that OSS community members can comment on /. and the like and tell them the real story behind their farcical emails' subjects. For example, his comment that OpenOffice is the real threat, etc.
In SOVIET RUSSIA... erm...NSA AMERICA, the Internet logs onto YOU!
That's about as fair and balanced an article as I've ever seen from the open source camp, so thanks for posting...
they've left it too late. Since they did not make Office available for Linux others have moved in and filled the gap already.
Why on earth would I install MS Office on Linux when I've already replaced it, even on my Windows partition?
Keep up, or drop out. MS dropped the ball on this one because they thought no one could catch up, let alone put *them* in the catch up position.
They were wrong.
KFG
er, "innovating."
Dude, have you ever worked for a large company?
Sdelat' Ameriku velikoy Snova!
I wonder if this typo wasn't done on purpose. Send a memo to a lot of peoples with a different typo in each one of them and then see which one is leaked. Maybe not but it would be a good way of finding out who is leaking them.
... you're correct.
However, it would send a message to other people in the open source community: "You could be next." Microsoft has the financial and political clout to potentially make hundreds of its enemies "go away" with no ill consequences to itself. Would people be willing to risk their lives in the face of such a threat?
"Oh! Oh! Br'er Bear! Don't! Don't throw me in that briar patch!"
Gee, it's convenient for a company facing a court decision on anti-trust grounds, and a decision on whether or not to be independently pursued at a state level, to have this big, scary, Linux monster under their bed. Isn't it?
-- Terry
First they ignore you, then they laugh at you, then they fight you, then you win.
Lets not forget that those steps aren't a foregone conclusion. Sometimes they ignore you, then they laugh at you, then they fight you and then they stomp you into the ground mericlessly. Example? Netscape.
This is the eighth leaked letter concerning reactions to OSS! If MS is not using these letters to carefully manuever the public, they have all got to be totally stupid. For us to believe that they aren't would make us even more so.
Here is the introduction:
-----
Everybody remember the Gandhi quote?
First they ignore you, then they laugh at you, then they fight you, then you win.
Gentlemen and ladies, this newest leaked memo from Microsoft confirms that we are advancing through GandhiCon Three. As usual, highlights are in red and comments are in {green, also bracketed for the color-blind}. Also as usual, the memo is otherwise unedited and exactly as I received it, with one exception: in the text version I was sent, the last bullet item was inexplicably positioned after the sender sig "Orlando".
Some analysis follows the memo.
-----
Gandhi's words *are* wise, but the problem it that we (the OSS community) are the ones who are laughing. We're so secure in the fact that OSS can't be touched in the traditional method that we're just sitting back and taking every inch of their retreat as a victory. But it's a tactical retreat! Clearly MS is doing something tricky with palladium, and the gods know what else. I'd be not so quick to dismiss the "inexplicably positioned" bullet item, nor would I say the "then we win" step is so near.
I don't mean to sound paranoid or anything, but it's bloody foolish to be overconfident.
Second, everyone here needs to distinguish between the server and desktop markets. On the server, Linux is a very serious threat to MS, since Redmond loses a lot of money with each server that converts to Linux. (It's not just the OS license revenue, but that of Back Office and other packages, plus support.)
On the desktop, Linux has zero chance of being a serious competitor until and unless the OSS coders pull their heads out of their asses and directly address the mainstream market. Talk to a Windows user about converting to Linux, and see how many questions you get about moving data over in a usable form, which apps do and don't run under Linux (and almost 0% of the apps mainstreamers care about run under Linux or have reasonable equivalents). The mainstreamers are surprisingly sophisticated when it comes to figuring out where their real investment is in a computer.
NT
Here in Brazil, near 95% of personal computers are sold by the called "integrators", they assemble the parts.
So the Windows licence is a sort of an "optional" part. I worked in some of then and I see that is very, very optional, like an joystick, just a little fracion opt for it "legalized", the other 90% have just it "installed" and with Microsoft Office.
If they are licensed, Win & Office, they will cost near the same as the whole computer.
I Don't know exactlly how is in others countries, but i think in USA near 100% of computers are from big companies like Dell and HP where Windows is not an "optional", so, the expansion of Linux will be very slowly there.
have any of these things really been creditible after the first one? ESR is once again leading everyone around in circles. ESR wants to be king of a new world order, but his problem is that there is no new world order. So he is trying to create a us versus them world, so we will all rally behind him.
====
Crudely Drawn Games
What's to stop a corporation from running non-linux applications on citrix, thus cutting their workstation licensing and support costs dramatically?
Easy. Read the Microsoft ELUA it states that the target viewer for any tools like Citrix must be running "Microsoft Windows (tm)" not just any Windows system like X Windows or OSX.
Here are some Linux CAD programs:
_ Pr ograms/
.).
http://www.linuxcad.com/
http://www.qcad.org/index.php3
http://www.caddepot.com/dcd/CAD_Demos/Linux/CAD
Here is a link to a list of links:
http://www.tech-edv.co.at/lunix/CADlinks.html
Looks like Linux DOES do CAD. But I guess it is up to you to determine if it does it well enough.
I think Adobe works with Macs, so if the Linux share surpasses Macs, then Adobe will start creating stuff for Linux desktops, as well (at least, logic would dictate . .
Cheers.
Sdelat' Ameriku velikoy Snova!
I don't get it - this post was moderated to Flame Bait ! It's a simple statement of the truth - ESR suffers from Downs Syndrome. And it shows in everything he does & says.
Read it and weep. You need THREE licenses to run Terminal Services(or RDP).
W2K Server (per seat)
W2K CAL
Terminal Services licenses (per device) NO concurrent usage.
-
this officially adds up to a fortune.
It's a good thing that OSS is out there. How else can we teach the rest of the world and bring them up to speed so fast. What's funny is that the very people who are contributing to OSS and the like are speeding themselves out of jobs as more and more companies start outsourcing to India and other countries who are just now starting to get into tech fields.
What would be integrated and between which points to find the area enclosed by the two curves shown Here?
Isn't it great how some windows loser is to stupid to get the fucking joke?
Isn't it great how some Slashdot A/C losers are too stupid to know the difference between "to" and "too"?
This Eric Raymond guy isn't very smart! By being very open about what he thinks about Microsoft's strategy, he's giving Microsoft the insight to actually defeat OSS! I call for opposition of full disclosure! Oh wait... this isn't an OS security discussion is it? Sorry folks. Wrong troll. ;P
Actually, this is a very entertaining read like all the other analysis of the Halloween docs.
Un-news
Hey, you could have picked up a copy of his book with a $ .34 cent share of VALINUX thrown in for a bookmark, and still not paid more than a buck !! The stock market thinks that any company run with ESR's guidance as a director isn't even a going concern.
{Translation: We can expect a lot more OSS adoption announcements. This deer-caught-in-the-headlights paralysis thing has got to stop!}
Translation-translation: We should gear up our FUD machine to counter Microsofts taking their business seriously. Perhaps our fanaticism should be wound down a tad.
{Translation: The peasantry is getting restless. Not only must we be prepared to deploy massive armadas of marketing suits to squelch "real" unrest, we must begin jumping at "expected" shadows.}
Translation-translation: Microsoft is doing what I'd do if I had a business to protect. I don't have a business to protect so I'll just wind my neck out and rant some more.
{Translation: we have a high-level damage-control group knit together with an "OSSI" mailing list that everybody in the To line knows enough about that we don't have to give its full name.}
Translation-translation: I don't know what OSSI is but it scares me into guessing that it's something it's probably not - but even if it is then no-one will take me seriously due to my past ranting.
{Translation: They could be moving because our software's security sucks dead maggots through a straw, or because our licensing terms are highway robbery and feloniously illegal in some jurisdictions, or because some politician got a nationalistic bug up his ass. Better pray it's the last, because if it's either of the first two we are completely screwed.}
Translation-translation: If I hit them with security them something has to stick. This is despite the fact that if Linux security issues scaled up to 95% of installed desktops then Linux would have 10 times as many security flaws as Windows XP. Note to self; Better not mention that.
{Translation: Who can we suborn?}
Translation-translation: Who did I suborn into getting me this confidential memo. Are internal memos open source?
{Translation: Who are our paid shills and astroturfers this week?}
Translation-translation: Of course Microsoft has paid shills - open source shills go unpaid at least until they write a book about open source and then they get to keep their money. Note to self; Hide money.
{Translation: Find out if we can shoot the messenger, dammit!}
Translation-translation: Microsoft do proper research. I have no need for this when I can sensationalise and rant...if only someone were listening.
{WW probably equals "World Wide" here. "subs" = "subsidiaries"}
Translation-translation: Sky is blue, grass is green...oh yes they are - ask any 3yr old.
{Translation: we don't expect the stuff we gave you on the first business day to have actually helped.}
Translation-translation: We don't expect you to have been able to absorb our first encounter so we'll follow up. This is standard business practice...but not having a business ESR wouldn't know this. If you ever get a call from ESR the next day after a meeting he obviously has not given you anything useful on the first day *and* be sure to fcuking telling him so!
{We'll start by learning how to type the word "become" correctly. We promise.}
Translation-translation: Arrgh, now ESR thinks he's in usenet flaming someone for using correct grammar. Please, this guy needs some damage control.
{Translation: We don't think enough of our big customers know that we consider Linux a major competitive threat, so we're going to send Mike Nash on a press tour to introduce it to them.}
Translation-translation: I couldn't think of anything witty or snide to say so I invented something I took from an open source attack on a grapefruit. I had to hack the grapefruit using spoon 0.09b - it's the latest version, buggy as hell and it will never make it to 0.1 but it represents what an entire army of developers and testers can achieve.
I have nothing against linux or OSS. In fact I marvel at some of the wonderful technical feats achieved by the OSS community as a whole BUT this guy needs gagging. He is ONLY damaging. His article reads like a usenet post by a 12yr old "hacker" pissed off at someone for pinging his home PC.
Rein him in or cut him loose.
A lot of the XMas PC stock in my local computer shop all had OpenOffice pre-installed (well startoffice).
You get a lot more bang for you buck with startoffice(over Works or Office), especially if you a home user.
thank God the internet isn't a human right.
Gates: "Good memo, I think this addresses our concerns."
Ballmer: "Should I make sure this memo leaks as well?"
Gates: "Yes, do it. We could use the free international exposure with our message, besides the nasty responses help insure nobody will ever take the Linux community seriously."
Wow. I've read through a good deal of the commentary and the one recurring theme seems to be that ESR is a shrill, whiny, attention addict yelling "Look at me! Look at me!"
:)
Personally, I thought his comments in H8 were hilarious satire, stuff that Scott Adams would be proud to steal. Of course, I've spent far too much time in huge institutions like the USN and big companies who shall remain nameless to preserve my job.
Her boss would be pretty pissed if he wanted a tool to perform a business task and it wasn't available.
The fact of the matter is that Microsoft has huge chunk of the market and therefore will have a much greater range of software available.
Sure in some situations if all they need is email, Word processor, blah then go with Linux if you want to. But the second you need to do more than that Windows has an advantage. Most businesses don't mind spending cash if it makes something easier and can be done quickly.
No they aren't this stuff is BS and only the Linux community listens to it. Try to use articles like this to lure your boss to consider Linux and you will only lose credibility. Best way to lure people is with facts pro and con.
When I design new systems for a department I gain their trust by not only selling the pro's of my design, but being able to tell them more details about the con's than they know. Then I can explain why they are non-issues. It shows them understanding of all aspects and takes the air out of their arguments. Linux has to be presented the same way, not with emails of questionable credibility. Make your best arguemnt to use Linux on facts pro and cons and be done. If you don't convince them this time, fine at least they will listen you again in the future instead of writing you off and a scam artist.
Hey, I just thought of something! Maybe MS should roll their own Linux distro, too!
Be very careful what you wish for.
Well, a lot of us have stopped listening to ESR. And a lot of us never bothered to listen to him. Those of you still listening to the freak are getting to be members of an ever-dwindling group. Open Source is dead - Long Live Free Software.
Whats up with the Microsoft Visual Studio banner add on slashdot?
0xfeedface
As an example of how stupid memo's can be at the enterprise level, I work at a VA (Veteran's Adminstration) hospital. It doesn't get much bigger and more beaurocratic than the VA. About 2 months ago a memo went out (through the entire system) stating that we (as providers) were no longer supposed to encourage veteran's who were not part of the VA system to use our health care services. In other words, Veteran's who were not already being seen by the VA health care system should not be encouraged to seek care at a VA hospital.
This after a similar memo and major initiative a couple years back to get new patients coming in (don't ask, its all about reimbursement and budget). Needless to say, there was a major backlash from Veteran's groups and politicians and the memo and policy was rescined about a week later. It was tantamount to saying that we were no longer going to provide care to Veterans who weren't already part of our system.
So yes, conspiracy theories aside, very stupid memos do come out for mass distribution. From the ivory tower, sometimes people have a very limited and distorted view of the rest of their fiefdom and the world at large.
jeff
I think all of these "ESR wants fame" posts definitely miss the point... I stumbled upon his insight when I first encountered Open Source...
why do MS memos keep leaking every year, while noone still seems to have got access to a single line of Windows source code since the dawn of the times?
Shall I say it again?
Open Source is Dead - Long Live Free Software !!
Open Source was ESR's most highly promoted bad idea. It should be taken out on the back 40 and put to rest, then buried beneath the manure from the dairy barn. Then we could get back benefitting from and extending one of the truly great and monumental ideas of the era - Free Software.
distro ?? Certified to run with Win2K ? Given the nature of the GPL, could they not offer the kernel and source, with additional "certified" binaries downloaded from M$, or do they have to give out the source for everything ?
errr....umm...*whooosh* *whoosh* Is this thing on ?
"else we are a mindless mob" meant to read: "else we are a mindless mob to be steered by rumor"
That "send on behalf of" stuff is biting them in ass now!. They will never find her!
I live in Chile, which is very close to Brazil, and the situation is almost the same down here. The biggest computer sales are from integrators, leaving the known brands to a very few customers.
Most of them (if not all) buys the computers with everything installed ('yeah, I can give you that software, and this other one as well') but without the licences, just a Windows XP licence costs as much as a complete low end Duron system (which is what most non-gamer people buys). This situation barely changes into the companies, where they are somewhat forced to get their software licenced when they get a notification from the ADS (think of it as the local BSA) saying they'll be inspected.
So, the thing is slowly beggining to change. I don't sell hardware, but I do give Linux consulting services to companies. I've already migrated a bunch of M$ servers on small networks to the Linux platform, mostly because server licences are far more expensives than client ones (and this way you also eliminate the CAL licences costs), and also because most companies don't feel that Linux is quite there yet to replace Windows on the desktop, leave alone the lack of the specific applications they work with.
Articulos para gente geek: Poleras, linux, libros y mas
Microsoft is doing their level best to make sure that all of these folks buy an XBox
Actually, Microsoft is doing their level worst and driving half the potential Xbox buyers away from the Xbox and toward the Sony PlayStation 2 or the Nintendo GameCube. The PS2 has a much larger selection overall, and it plays PS1 games and DVD movies out of the box. The GameCube has more E-rated games and a larger percentage of well-designed exclusive games (Smash Bros., Metroid Prime, Animal Crossing, etc. vs. Halo), and it plays Game Boy and GBA games with an attachment coming in May. In addition, the PS2 and the GameCube allow dial-up users to access the online games, whereas Xbox requires broadband service that isn't even available to probably half the USA population. (Dial-up, ISDN, and satellite don't work with Xbox Live. You need Internet access through cable or DSL, and many local cable monopolies and local phone monopolies have been slow to set up such access before, say, 2007.)
Will I retire or break 10K?
I just want to see all the memos that all the Microsoft execs had to send to one another to let each other know about this memo being discussed on /.
When you STUMBLED on Open Source the idea of Free Software was nearly 20 years old. All ESR added to Free Software was his personality and the confusion, the insecurity and the attention-starved behaviorism that dominates his mind.
What do you mean? Am I claiming that Linus Torvalds (or whoever you imagine to direct "the linux community", the Linux analog of Bill Gates or Steve Ballmer) directs his employees to participate in public forums to post derogatory comments about MSFT products at his expense? No, I'm not claiming that.
You missed the point of my observation that a corporate entity (MSFT) conducts organized campaigns of misleading the public by hiding the origin of the "public opinion poll" or "grass roots campaign" or "think tank whitepaper".
Sure, the linux community does all of the things that MSFT does - but on an individual-by-individual basis. I've posted pro-linux articles in public forums. I've written anti-MSFT whitepapers. But I've done it by myself, on my own time, I wasn't paid for it, I haven't claimed to be someone else, I didn't copy any PR firm's talking points, and I haven't claimed any kind of authority based on lack of bias, as the Gartner and Alexis de Toqueville whitepapers claim.
That's the real point of my laundry list of shilling and astroturfing. MSFT, directed by upper management, puts out all kind of pro-MSFT material, whose origins are deliberately obscured. By pretending to come from Joe Sixpack or from think tanks, MSFT progaganda gains a mantle of legitimacy that it wouldn't possess if it openly acknowledged its origins.
Quit playing Monopoly with Bill. Switch to one of many non-Microsoft products today.
Maybe you've just picked a backward bank.
In some towns such as Terre Haute, Indiana, "pick" and "bank" contradict one another because only one bank has branches and ATMs within reasonable driving distance. And it works with recent IE for Windows and with Netscape 4.7x and 4.8x, but not with any Gecko based browser . I have reported the issue to Mozilla Tech Evangelism.
Will I retire or break 10K?
For people who just don't get it yet: Its not about the money, it's about the freedom. Is citrix Free? Can you do with it everything you ever need? Or are you stuck with vendor's opinions of your needs?
Facts:
Linux keeps getting better.
Windows keeps getting better. (Technically, not counting the EULAs)
Is the gap closing? I don't think so. There's still way more software and systems being created for Windows.
But Linux is doing something else, for users that don't need any exotic software. Do you need a server? Do you need a simple browsing/e-mail/basic office pack desktop? You got it. Maybe next year I can add a couple more things to that list. Maybe a few more are good enough now already and I don't know about it or agree.
In Windows, you choose between different software with different cost. In Linux, most of the tools people use are free, and there isn't many commercial counterparts. That means that those that *do* use Linux use it because it *already* does what the users want it to do, for free.
That's what spooks Microsoft. It's not that people switch. It's that they don't really have anything to offer to get them back should they decide Linux is "good enough" as it is. Any business would. And should.
Kjella
Live today, because you never know what tomorrow brings
People have overlooked one major trend and that's the rise of web native ASP's. Our company is one of hundreds out there creating vertical industry specific applications. Things like accounting, supply chain management, crm and sales force automation. Everything is available through a browser. You're not aware of it because the great majority of companies like ours may be well known in their industries but not on any national radar screen. What happens in five years time when companies realize that the only thing they use Windows for is email and MS Office? Suddenly Linux with evolution and Open Office becomes a viable alternative. If the business applications are all accessed through the browser the games over for Windows. People that's the main reason Microsoft bought Great Plains. They want all these vertical providers working on a Microsoft framework. Man Holmes
Why don't we pass a law. Make it so if any business is ever accused of anything, that business won't be allowed to defend itself. Anything it would say would be tainted by its own self-interest, anyway, and made to sound better by the money they spend saying it, so that means nothing they say could be true. So we'll just declare it guilty and fine the crap out of it. It'll save so much time, and then we can be sure that there's no shilling going on. Besides, they're rich, they can afford to have the crap fined out of them.
(That was sarcasm.)
Please note: XML is NOT the holy grail.
/etc/hosts file by hand if it's in an XML style, it's much easier in the current style. Moreover writing a GUI for editing non-XML config files is no big difficulty. Configuration files should be editable by hand (easily) and possibly by a GUI.
It *can* be an excellent solution for many problems but it always depends on what and how you do it.
Misunderstanding (1): XML is human readable
Yes, it is. (unless it is not compressed with a proprietary protocol which is not so unlikely). But only because you can read it this does not mean you can actually *understand* it. The so called scheme, that makes you understand an XML document can be proprietary and not open. There is no reason to believe that Microsoft XML-Documents will have public available schemes.
Misunderstanding (2): XML is suitable for everything (e.g. configuration files).
Simply wrong. It's no fun at all to e.g. edit the
To me XML has it's pros but also it's cons.
Microsoft wants us to believe that they converted from "Saulus to Paulus" by using a standardized language that is human readable. But we will all soon recognize that they will still use their proprietary formats to lock everyone out.
Maybe thats not so far from the truth. At work I get to see many web server statistics and regarding OS'es Linux is about 5-7% (!), trailed by Apple which is around 3-4%.
{Translation: Find out if we can shoot the messenger, dammit!}
The scary part... I don't think they were making a joke.
-------
"In times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act."
-- George Orwell
I wonder if this has anything to do with MS's attack plan... News post on Slackware's site: Due to a series of DDoS attacks which began on Dec 11 and continued until yesterday afternoon, it has been difficult or impossible to reach our website for nearly a week. We're glad that it seems to have stopped, but have no idea who is behind the attacks, why they're doing it, or if they will start again. We apologize for the downtime. An investigation into the source of the attacks is ongoing, and we ask that anyone with any useful information please contact the Slackware Security team at security@slackware.com. Thanks for your patience.
-------
"In times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act."
-- George Orwell
amazing...same comment "Agreed" is present. See next post, from an AC, below.
You think you're cool letting everyone know your vote for ESR to trap his yap? We need your help by being a good example of slashdot: make a new year's resolution to not double your posts and maybe we'll all see it matched by slashdot's administration.
And besides, ESR is a Linux Zealot. His sixth sense is everything to do with Linux. And all his comments are well-thought...he knows *many* people don't enjoy his comments. What's to know? He is Yet Another Honerably Objectionable Opinion (Yahoo!).
Love him or hate him, he would defent your rights rain or shine, in sickness or in health, for independance from eachother's unique opinions that neither can agree upon. When the time comes, the better question is: Would you do the same for him or will you have a bad taste in your mouth? ESR isn't out to step on people with his stinky hippy feet. He is the last of your worries, in a world that doesn't honor even the unalienable rights of un-born animals and humans.
I know I will be received the wrong way, yet if I had mod points, I still would not use them. Mod points are useless...words are a cosmic event that cannot be diminished!
ok, why does open source software have to be free of charge again?
I think not. There are thousands of "memos" like this floating around every major corporation in America.
/. will begin to run "Halloween" memos from Coca Cola stating that Snapple is taking market share away? Or memos from GM about Ford's expansion into Europe?
Microsoft didn't get where they are today by not taking Apple, Sun, Netscape, AOL, and the Open Source movement seriously. All of the above threaten Microsoft's business model and as such they respond.
What's the big deal?
Should we expect that
"ESR wants to be king of a new world order, but his problem is that there is no new world order."
I would say that there is definitely a new world order, but it doesn't need a king.
Sdelat' Ameriku velikoy Snova!
More specifically, blame AisleRiot, a 'rule-based solitare card game engine', which comes with almost 80 different card games, some of which I've never heard of: Bristol? Eagle wing? Eight off?
er the point was that he does need the comments there. If he took out everything that somebody might find offensive/rude/arrogant/etc there probably wouldn't be enough comments left.
And he did say that this document doesn't show anything 'evil' etc, if you read it.
I think that public domain software releases are the way to go and that anyone who uses the GPL is a copyright-seizing monopolistic bastard. In addition to that, I rarely wash. For these controversial views and habits I should become the most famous hacker and you should refer to me by my initials.
Sure they can hold back mass migration to linux but what does it bother us? If we keep this pace up in development of Linux Microsoft will be lagging behind real soon. The snowball is rolling and i dont think Microsoft has the capability to stop it anymore. Lets leave Microsoft behind and let them fight a ghost. Without something to hit they are lost. They have shown us again and again with their gorilla practices that they cant compete on engineering or quality with anyone.
Let them fight nothing but air and windmills!
HTTP/1.1 400
You should be scared. How are you going to provide for you family without a job? That's right, you're fired. Get the hell out of my office.
Can't even spell first post right. I should've never hired you. Get out. You're so fired!
I wasn't aware that the Open Sound System posed that much of a threat to Microsoft; I'd have thought they'd be more concerned with Open Source Software.
*grin*
It's our market, and we wants it! :-)
Seriously, though, ESR is overreacting on this one, and a less derogatory and more reasonable tone never hurt anyone's case.
Martin
Perhaps "become" was deliberately misspelled in this particular version of the memo, as a signature of sorts? Easy way to find a leak. (Assuming Microsoft cares one way or the other...)
And I too could have done without the tripe in green. Lets try not to turn into a bunch of crybabies just because our revolution hasn't been as swift and successful as we anticipated.
MJC
He ACTUALLY spells out the fact that what he's doing is illegal and could get him sued AND HE KNOWS IT, then uses his Great Brain to come up with a way to magically shield him from Microsoft forever: MST3King!
Computer people come up with some crazy rationalizations about how they're not really doing what they're doing, but this is a corker. Move over "child modelling" sites, we have a new winner.
At least thats my guess. It's a common acronym used at other companies. It's a sales department, not a law department.
If your dinner guest uses the wrong fork and you ignore it, you are polite.
If your dinner guest uses the wrong fork and you roll your eyes at the people around you and make little motions at your guest, you are rude.
If your dinner guest uses the wrong fork and you jump to your feet, point at him and read him the riot act at the top of your lungs, then slam down your napkin and announce you won't eat with such people as you stomp your way out the door, you are Richard Stallman.
I think its obvious, lets face it, every microsoft thing has a spellchecker built in somehow, they love their com objects. These people aren't slashdot, they're not just going to miss a b. Its an obvious ploy, most likely everyone within the corporation recieved the same memo, minus a different letter. Naturally, the mis-spelling would be ridiculed along with the rest of the commentary by the open source crowd, thus ensuring that Microsoft could easily identify the person who leaked the memo and sack them.
So, who lost their job at Microsoft recently?
Alternatively, now the leak has been identified, they could be fed misinformation. I look forward to halloween 9, otherwise entitled "We attack at dawn, honest".
Phi.
Although you might well be right, keep in mind that web UA stats are not necessarily accurate, nor are they necessarily meaningful.
"Consistency is contrary to nature, contrary to life. The only completely consistent people are the dead." A. Huxley
Who cares what memo's are flying around at Microsoft anymore. In so far as my little world, they aren't a concern anymore. ;)
post their words without the "translations" and they'll hang themselves
No, post the copyrighted words of Microsoft without criticism or comment and the Feds hang YOU!
Will I retire or break 10K?
Oh what fun they when they Play together!
that Citrix is a clunky, complicated, expensive solution to a simple problem?
yeah. other than that, its a terrific product.
ESR does not have down's syndrome.
The parent poster is correct - he does have Down's Syndrome. It is quite obvious from his physical appearance (that of a mongoloid) and his behaviour (an inability to grasp complex concepts.)
{We'll start by learning how to type the word "become" correctly. We promise.}
Geez people -- learn to recognize a watermark when you see one.
I was just looking at download.com's user opinions of Microsoft's newly released DirectX 9. Most of the reviews were positive, with the unsurprising comments that it crashed a couple systems and such. One review, however, caught my eye:
""THE BEST VIDEO-AUDIO EnhanceX YET!!!!"
DirectX 9.0 definitely delivers the future of gaming straight into your computer. I run a Pentium IV 2.2 GHz, ATI Radeon 9700 All-IN-Wonder 128 MB Video Card, and I have 2 GB of Ram. Now you may think that my computer is really great, but in fact, my XP crashes a lot due to viruses downloaded with KaZaA, so they slow it down considerably. I can proudly say that DirectX has solved this problem for my gaming abilities. My games ran slower before when I played Warcraft III: Reign of Chaos, Max Payne, NHL 2003, Nascar 5, Mafia and Grand Theft Auto 3. Now, I can run all of these games at the maximum graphics resolution, with superb audio and video enhancements. With my Dolby Digital 5.1 Surround Sound System, I can really feel the crisp and clear 3 Dimensional Sound delivered to my computer with DirectX 9.0. This is the best thing that I have downloaded on the internet. Even if you have previously never noticed the difference when uploading to DirectX 6, to 7, to 8, to 8.1, you will now!!!! The performance is incredible. Don't delay!!!! Download it to play your games like you've never felt adrenaline more in your entire life!! Microsoft RULES!!!! By the way, don't forget to buy XBox, it's a sick system. They may be releasing PS3 in a few years, but I don't know if they'll have online gaming for that or not. XBOX is so souped up with it's hard drive, and the touch-sensitive buttons on the controller, and the online play, that you just cannot get enough from playing racing games and Amped on XBOX. By the way, if you're REALLY serious about buying XBOX, then get it on E-Bay. I got a really good deal, it was a bit used, but I got XBox, with 2 controllers, Halo and Amped for only $120 (US that is), about $250 Canadian I think, I'm not sure."
No one _actually_ writes like that. I'm sorry. There's a million-to-one shot that's an actual user review, but I'd bet good money it's not. Lets go through why:
*"I run a Pentium IV 2.2 GHz, ATI Radeon 9700 All-IN-Wonder 128 MB Video Card, and I have 2 GB of Ram" is believable. I know I love talking about how wonderful _my_ gaming computer is, and expect others to act the same.
*"Now you may think that my computer is really great, but in fact, my XP crashes a lot due to viruses downloaded with KaZaA, so they slow it down considerably." Ooooh. KaZaA. Buzzword. But wait! KaZaA is EVIL!!! It carries VIRUSES! That somehow do nothing but slow down the computer. Right.
*"My games ran slower before when I played Warcraft III: Reign of Chaos, Max Payne, NHL 2003, Nascar 5, Mafia and Grand Theft Auto 3. Now, I can run all of these games at the maximum graphics resolution...." Buzzwords galore. I defy you to find one person who would actually list anything like that, and not simply say 'Before DirectX 9, Games would run too slow.' The reviewer is attempting to 'connect' with gamers by proving he's 'in the know' about cool games. Bullshit.
*"With my Dolby Digital 5.1 Surround Sound System, I can really feel the crisp and clear 3 Dimensional Sound delivered to my computer with DirectX 9.0" Again, no one uses product placement like that.
*"Even if you have previously never noticed the difference when uploading to DirectX 6, to 7, to 8, to 8.1, you will now!!!!" I'm glad the 'average user' knows all the recent version changes, and feels it helpful to list them.
*"XBOX is so souped up with it's hard drive, and the touch-sensitive buttons on the controller, and the online play, that you just cannot get enough from playing racing games and Amped on XBOX." Oh just shut up. It's enough to pretend and review DX9, now you're ADVERTISING for OTHER Microsoft products? Just go fuck yourself.
*"By the way, if you're REALLY serious about buying XBOX, then get it on E-Bay. I got a really good deal, it was a bit used, but I got XBox, with 2 controllers, Halo and Amped for only $120 (US that is), about $250 Canadian I think, I'm not sure." Man, am I REALLY serious about buying XBOX! So serious I'll list possible US and Canadian prices to help all my REALLY serious friends!
The whole review feels fake, overly thought-out, and as 'real' as whore's tits.
Moral: Examples of Microsoft using false means to convey their message can be found anywhere and everywhere. I agree with the sentiment that ANY positive Microsoft press should be taken with a large bucket of salt.
-Trillian
Original material?
I agree that the commentary is pretty weak. Personally I would have appreciated less cheerleading and more rational analysis.
I do, however, disagree with your analysis about what ESR is trying to communicate. In the finishing comments he does say that this memo is not especially evil or anything, it just happens to give insight into which anti-OSS strategies we will be seeing next. Especially the sentence "the sort of thing that gets churned out daily by clueless corporate droids everywhere" says essentially the same thing that you seem to be saying - every company is saying stuff like this all the time, they haven't done anything strange or wrong. Informative document neverthless.
Reflexively dismissing something (or reading it as MS-bashing) just because it comes from an open source advocate is just as silly as saying that all MS software is crap.
Opinions stated are mine and do not reflect those of the Illuminati
Internet Explorer. For surfing reasons, and paying bills.
Microsoft Outlook for my mail
Microsoft Office for letters and such.
And also microsoft Access. I am working on some database projects for work.
AutoCAD 2002
Webcam software
And also Warcraft 3 for fun
And My computer is a P4 with 140 gig of hard drive space, and ATI All in wonder Radeon 8500 DV. I would love to see how easy, or difficult it is to live in a Linux enviroment. My freinds do it all the time, and I am sometimes envious that they are multiplatformed. Please e-mail any PROPER, and HELPFUL suggestions to *cough*nnyreen@hotmail.com *cough* or I wýll check the responses here. Thanks a lot everyone. Oh yeah. It took me long enough how to figure out html tags..
And what makes this all the more laughable is when you look at many Linux advocates. They are more blood thirsty than any Microsoft exec. It's not enough for Linux to succeed, they need Microsoft's charter to be revoked.
Hell, they don't even want to see BSD make it.
...is the one when Slashdot has the guts to say NO to Microsoft Ads(vs.Net) !!!!
Comment removed based on user account deletion
Comment removed based on user account deletion
I work for MS, and I'm not paid all day to sit around with my thumbs up my ass posting to slashdot. I get paid to make new features is Office. I don't subscribe to /. because it is a waste of time, but I do read it on the weekends to make fun of the crap that you "objective" people write. I used to believe in conspiracy theory, too. Now I have a wife and a job, and my developing puts food on the table and improves other people's lives.
You're going to get nothing but flames for not being an MS-bashing, pro 'free as in speech AND as in beer', *nix guru already. I'm working in a pretty neat shop that is doing NIDS monitoring; and one of the sysadmins handed me RedHat 7.2 yesterday. I have copies of a dozen other Linux distributions but have been too lazy to load anything at all on my generally blank tes70r b0x that gathers dust in the corner of my (home) office. I have a considerable amount of free [as in kid at sitter; momma at work] time coming up and think NOW is the time to start messing with it. Anyone, this particular sysadmin says boot from the CD and follow the prompts. Once all the packages you want are loaded; start playing with it. Oh and here's the documentation CD *thunk*. If you want it you must work for it even if it is mostly reading!
I think with the interesting people, their lives can't possibly be wrapped up into a nice little package.
The problem is that sometimes even Microsoft tells the truth. Look, I hate the bastards in Redmond as much as anybody here, but the fact is that sometimes they tell the truth and sometimes the truth is very complicated (such as TCO). So you can't assume that just because something is pro-microsoft, it was written by a microsoftie.
Sorry: you are just going to have to look at everything sceptically and think about it.
- MS ports MS apps to linux
- to do this, they write a proprietary COM layer that runs under linux, which you must licence
- people switch to MS/Linux
- MS develops a kernel with COM compiled into it, and makes it proprietary
- yes, it violates the GPL. But MS has a *lot* of lawyers
- MS apps/MS kernel works really nice. Businesses switch
- MS extends the kernel with more proprietary add-ons, deliberately breaks OSS apps
- OSS apps won't run on MS/Linux anymore.
The Beast is backLook, I never said that because a post was pro-microsoft, that it was therefore the work of Redmond. Seriously, before going on about logic, please carefully read what I've actually written. What I said is that there must be MS employees paid to be on this board to do some "direct" marketing, which certainly doesn't include praising Linux. Why do I think this is not only plausible, but highgly probable? Because it makes sense to do it, from MS's point of view, because it's relatively cheap and not very risky, and because they have a history of doing this (and worse).
:-)
However, you shouldn't assume that by this I mean it's impossible to say something good about Windows or Microsoft without being on Bill Gates' payroll. That's ridiculous. Even I have said good things about Win2k, which I find to be an adequate OS, and a big improvement on previous offerings. I have an Xbox and I love it (I'll love it even more when I can run Linux on it without a modchip...). I think MS Office is still the best office suite (I use it with Crossover Office). The Microsoft Design Gallery Live is the best place on the net to find clip art. Yet I'm very critical of other aspects of MS, and I really hope that Linux will continue to gain marketshare, because I honestly believe that OSes should not belong to anyone in particular. And, it's Linux is, IMO, a fundamentally better operating system.
Just so you know: if there's anything I'm really good about, it's looking at something skeptically and thinking about it. I'm a real libra, very much into the whole doubting and pondering thing. Too much, actually, sometimes I need to prop myself into action, or I get kind of absent-minded and could place myself in physical danger.
Reminder: find a new sig
For those who wish to read only the original content, you can use CSS to disable the comments by putting the following rule in your browser's user style sheet:
.comment { display: none; }
In Mozilla, this means adding the above line to $HOME/.mozilla/profile name/random salt/chrome/userContent.css and restarting your browser. The same can also be achieved in Opera.
Admittedly it's a little much to make these changes for just one Web page, but as more Web pages start to use CSS, this sort of thing will hopefully apply to more than just one or two pages. Alternatively, you could contact ESR and suggest he provide an alternate stylesheet so you can easily toggle comment display.
Last time I checked, Microsoft was losing money except for two areas dependent on monopoly rents. Not only that, "adjustments" to their financial statements seem to put them $18 billion into the red, that during a time when sales were good compared to recent years.
If nothing else, Microsoft's behavior has been like they do not expect to be around in 12 months. The recent treatment of Sendo and similar treatment of past partners, extortion of customers using the Business Software Alliance, unfavorable licensing 6, and even the faked video testimonies in federal court are not what you'd expect from a company that plans to stay in business. Rather it seems that Microsoft is just another dot-com that is now beginning re-entry.
Free as in market.