I agree with you to some extent. However, how should a user know to click on an icon to install a program (let alone know what the word "icon" even means (even 10 years ago there were still several people who would've been dumbfounded when you told them that an "icon" was a little square picture that you can "click" with a "mouse")).
The fact is, is that people have been exposed to the knowledge that clicking on icons makes programs run.
Clicking on icons is no easier and no harder then typing a single command to install all of your apps (I would actually argue that typing the command is easier), it just depends on what the user has been previously exposed to.
In fact in linux, I would feel uncomfortable clicking an icon on the desktop to install anything, just because I've become so accustomed to the command line.
No, you don't need the "secret handshake" but knowing how to use the tools of the trade is fairly important if you plan on practicing that trade.
The author isn't talking about some mom and pop company with 20 or so users. He's talking about a 500 node network that requires nearly 100% uptime. By the time someone gets into a position like that they better damn well know the tools and how to use them.
They're both free too. I'm honestly a little surprised that a network admin (as the author claims to be) would post this question.
Although I've never used ethereal on windows, it works great on linux. And you can even use tethereal in your scripts since it's the command line based version of ethereal.
I guess I should have been more clear. I wasn't trying to argue that it's not possible with gentoo. I know the infrastructure is there to do it. However, you say
1) if your mirror doesn't have binaries, add one that does to PORTAGE_BINHOST (check with #gentoo or gentoo forums for urls)
Well, I can't find a single mirror that DOES have binary packages. Maybe you could point me at one, because this would definately be useful. I've checked the forums and the mirrors page and all that was said in the forums was there are no binary package mirrors.
Well, I'm not meaning to imply that they "need" a larger user base. But I'm sure it wouldn't hurt them.
Anyway, look at it from a different perspective, user base aside, if gentoo really is about choice and control, then why not let the gentoo user's choose between a gui installer and a manual install?
I don't know how you can argue this in any situations other than when you're initially building your gentoo system.
Once you run your first emerge sync where do you get packages from? I don't know of any mirrors that supply binary packages and I'd be willing to bet that there aren't any. So unless you're referring to the limitted selection on the gentoo cd's, then no, you can't use binary packages unless you've pre-built them yourself.
What installer? Gentoo's only official "installer" is the install documentation.
In my opinion if Gentoo wants to gain a larger user base it needs one. But I definately learned a lot from installing it without a pretty gui installer.
Although the mutations may be random, the mutations that survive are certainly not. The idea is that the best mutations survive and the rest perish. Thus only more and more powerful viruses and spamming techniques will succeed.
However, by that same reasoning the internet will evolve too. And because of how much more important the internet is then viruses/spam (to most people) it will likely evolve to be far stronger.
Of course there'll probably always be viruses and spam, but the protocols will change to prevent the easy proliferation of these.
I agree with you on this, but I think the idea is that slow and steady wins the race. Linux progresses (arguably) slowly, but steadily (not to mention stably). Whereas microsoft _attempts_ to leap forward, but at each leap forward it takes a rest and linux passes it. This is because each leap "forward" seems to introduce countless new bugs and security holes.
Who knows, maybe they'll just open source their virus scanners and only charge for services (hey, I can dream;))... I'm sure microsoft will still charge their user's to get the latest virus definitions.
And to add to this, "securing" code doesn't necessarily mean secure from security breach's. I believe part of what the author is getting at is that the companies have "trade secrets" within their code that they don't want other people to have.
For example, Microsoft wouldn't want the samba project to get ahold of their source code or it would make it easier to interact with microsofts products.
Ebuild's aren't written in python, they're simple bash scripts. Portage, the system that manages the ebuilds, is written in python, as are eclasses.
I don't really see a point to including ebuild's in this package manager though, as the package manager should already be doing the work of the ebuilds maintain source packages.
Besides, portage will kick this package managers ass anyday.:-)
yeah, but in this case they aren't trying to sell software. they're trying to sell PDA's. You can't 'warez' a PDA. If it was easy to use with a linux system i can assure you that they would sell at least one more PDA.
You know, this is a really stupid article. slashdot's really starting to go downhill posting crap like this. And as for this screaming lunatic fellow, what kind of drugs are you on man?
Well does anyone remember beta? This is just sony's style of marketing and it clearly doesn't work. Didn't sony also create those really small CD's that seem like a really cool thing but no one has. Sony just doesn't get it.
Slashdot Mirror
I agree with you to some extent. However, how should a user know to click on an icon to install a program (let alone know what the word "icon" even means (even 10 years ago there were still several people who would've been dumbfounded when you told them that an "icon" was a little square picture that you can "click" with a "mouse")).
The fact is, is that people have been exposed to the knowledge that clicking on icons makes programs run.
Clicking on icons is no easier and no harder then typing a single command to install all of your apps (I would actually argue that typing the command is easier), it just depends on what the user has been previously exposed to.
In fact in linux, I would feel uncomfortable clicking an icon on the desktop to install anything, just because I've become so accustomed to the command line.
click-and-point (err... point-and-click?) != easy-to-use by any means, especially when some stupid DLL error message pops up after clicking.
I couldn't agree with you more.
All of the stated problems are not limitted to open source, proprietary software suffers from the exact same fundamental problems if not more.
Nah, the anti-spammers don't want to tear him apart, after all, he helps to keep them employed. ;-)
No, you don't need the "secret handshake" but knowing how to use the tools of the trade is fairly important if you plan on practicing that trade.
The author isn't talking about some mom and pop company with 20 or so users. He's talking about a 500 node network that requires nearly 100% uptime. By the time someone gets into a position like that they better damn well know the tools and how to use them.
They're both free too. I'm honestly a little surprised that a network admin (as the author claims to be) would post this question.
Although I've never used ethereal on windows, it works great on linux. And you can even use tethereal in your scripts since it's the command line based version of ethereal.
http://grp.mirror.site
.site had become a valid domain ;-).
Come on now, you don't believe this is an actual mirror do you.
I didn't know
This is probably the most productive thing I've used windows for in the past two years ;-).
I guess I should have been more clear. I wasn't trying to argue that it's not possible with gentoo. I know the infrastructure is there to do it. However, you say
1) if your mirror doesn't have binaries, add one that does to PORTAGE_BINHOST (check with #gentoo or gentoo forums for urls)
Well, I can't find a single mirror that DOES have binary packages. Maybe you could point me at one, because this would definately be useful. I've checked the forums and the mirrors page and all that was said in the forums was there are no binary package mirrors.
Well, I'm not meaning to imply that they "need" a larger user base. But I'm sure it wouldn't hurt them.
Anyway, look at it from a different perspective, user base aside, if gentoo really is about choice and control, then why not let the gentoo user's choose between a gui installer and a manual install?
"you CAN use binary packages with Gentoo"
I don't know how you can argue this in any situations other than when you're initially building your gentoo system.
Once you run your first emerge sync where do you get packages from? I don't know of any mirrors that supply binary packages and I'd be willing to bet that there aren't any. So unless you're referring to the limitted selection on the gentoo cd's, then no, you can't use binary packages unless you've pre-built them yourself.
"But the installer has a *long* way to go"
What installer? Gentoo's only official "installer" is the install documentation.
In my opinion if Gentoo wants to gain a larger user base it needs one. But I definately learned a lot from installing it without a pretty gui installer.
Although the mutations may be random, the mutations that survive are certainly not. The idea is that the best mutations survive and the rest perish. Thus only more and more powerful viruses and spamming techniques will succeed.
However, by that same reasoning the internet will evolve too. And because of how much more important the internet is then viruses/spam (to most people) it will likely evolve to be far stronger.
Of course there'll probably always be viruses and spam, but the protocols will change to prevent the easy proliferation of these.
I agree with you on this, but I think the idea is that slow and steady wins the race. Linux progresses (arguably) slowly, but steadily (not to mention stably). Whereas microsoft _attempts_ to leap forward, but at each leap forward it takes a rest and linux passes it. This is because each leap "forward" seems to introduce countless new bugs and security holes.
My question is why was the author using MSN as a search engine in the first place? Shouldn't any self-respecting geek be using google? ;-)
Hey well if they're buying bud, they might be liable to do anything ;-)...
Who knows, maybe they'll just open source their virus scanners and only charge for services (hey, I can dream ;))... I'm sure microsoft will still charge their user's to get the latest virus definitions.
And to add to this, "securing" code doesn't necessarily mean secure from security breach's. I believe part of what the author is getting at is that the companies have "trade secrets" within their code that they don't want other people to have.
For example, Microsoft wouldn't want the samba project to get ahold of their source code or it would make it easier to interact with microsofts products.
Ebuild's aren't written in python, they're simple bash scripts. Portage, the system that manages the ebuilds, is written in python, as are eclasses.
:-)
I don't really see a point to including ebuild's in this package manager though, as the package manager should already be doing the work of the ebuilds maintain source packages.
Besides, portage will kick this package managers ass anyday.
How about:
"Should Open Source developers help the Iraq prepare for war with U.S.?"
Like come on, open source developers live in Iraq too, don't they?
How is this an article about freedom of the press in the US? It seems fairly global to me.
I'm curious, just how much is a 'bottle' anyways?
yeah, but in this case they aren't trying to sell software. they're trying to sell PDA's. You can't 'warez' a PDA. If it was easy to use with a linux system i can assure you that they would sell at least one more PDA.
You know, this is a really stupid article. slashdot's really starting to go downhill posting crap like this. And as for this screaming lunatic fellow, what kind of drugs are you on man?
Well does anyone remember beta? This is just sony's style of marketing and it clearly doesn't work. Didn't sony also create those really small CD's that seem like a really cool thing but no one has. Sony just doesn't get it.