Slashdot Mirror
Sony Uses DMCA To Shut Down Aibo Hack Site
Therlin writes: "Victor Matsuda, Vice President of Sony's Entertain Robot America (makers of AIBO), sent a letter to Aibopet.com citing the Digital
Mellennium Copyright Act. You can read the letter here. Aibopet is the website of an AIBO owner who enjoys researching AIBO. He also provides free software programs to improve and add features to the robots." I bet Sony won't increase their Aibo sales this way -- don't they like fanatical customers?
You know even the comment box tells you to preview your posts...
DCMA -> DMCA
C'mon!
So can I take my Sony Aibo back since I can't use it for the hack value I got it for?
Now its useless as a Barbie Doll.
have EULAs ever been tested in court?
will anybody ever have the guts (money) to try?
Digital Millennium Copyright Act.
Digi Mill Copy Act.
Di Mi Co Ac.
D M C A.
DMCA.
Is it that hard? Jimothy, I epxceted better out of you.
It asks him to remove that long list of zip files. He should just claim that Sony violated the DMCAA by circumventing his encryption when they unzipped those files. Otherwise, how would they know what the zip archives contain?
Keeping
Kick me in the Jimmy!
In fact I think it is well within Sony's rights to express concern over the dangerous software this man is writing. Imagine all those little robots going mad and attacking cats and babies... How much money would they lose then?
Imperium et libertas
Autocracy and freedom
Not too smart. If people can't do what they want to do with the products they buy, they might as well switch over to buying other products.
Sony's hurting a customer, and potential buyers and themselves. Say if someone creative takes a visit at the aibopet website, and finds its waay cool, they have a potential buyer... whoops it not there any more.
Too late Sony. DCMA is a virtual trap.
You guys are retards.
What most people don't know is that the AIBO runs on a modified version of Windows CE.
Perhaps M$ was behind this decision?
One man in such a large multinational corporation, supporting a one-country law. That's feeling secure in your job.
... demonstrate that damage was done? I mean, what you're talking about here is someone who's hacked an embeded device (basicly).
Does the DMCA ban reverse engineering as well? Is that technicaly constitutional? It seems that there's a lot of questions about this case that need answering. But the bottom line is that Sony isn't loosing any money from this site. None of these files are of any use if you don't HAVE an Abio right?
Killfile(TGK)
No trees were killed in the creation of this post. However, many electrons were inconvenienced.
I know I'll get flamed for this, but Sony did have a right to respond to the fact that he was distributing backup copies of their software.
The DMCA bs was probably just because they were already pissed. I absolutely agree that the DMCA is wrong but this guy didn't help his cause by putting copyrighted software on his site.
You can't scream about unfair laws and then break the ones that are fair.
int func(int a);
func((b += 3, b));
I was expecting more of an automated form letter, so I was pleasantly surprised by the personalization of the complaint letter. Are we gun shy now and flinching whenever someone challenges their "property" rights? Obviously their attitude of "please don't be curious about things we own" backed by the DMCA smells like rotten fruit, but I'd rather see them hand pick their targets and send friendly "We're Out to Get You" letters rather than putting on the gorilla suit and squishing everything in sight. Until the world discovers a better way to handle "intellectual property" what more can we expect from large companies like Sony?
A steaming cup of soykaf would be real wiz right now.
well in this day and age we don't buy products, just the right to use them.
The Slashdot Effect: A new for
Unfortunately, Sony is within their rights under the DMCA (a bad law in our quickly maturing police state). But wouldn't they be a lot more successful by co-opting this hacker's work and selling it to Aibo lovers? Copyright law shouldn't need to be used to stifle innovation.
Quick, while you still can, program your Aibo to bite the hand that feeds it...
QWxsIHlvdXIgQmFzZTY0IGFyZSBiZWxvbmcgdG8gdXMh
You know, there are some things that will someday seem obvious to any reasonably person as completely wrong and nuts, that at the times seemed completely rational. Racism, slavery, and the inferior status of women were all once taken mostly for granted by all except a few, but now are considered generally indefensible, at least in theory.
Someday, the true may be said of this idea: that corporate ownership of intellectual property takes priority over folk and grassroots enthusiasms (particularly nonfraudulent and not-for-profit ones); that the owners of popular culture enjoy the benefits of the ubiquity of that culture, a culture which has in some sense colonized our subconscious (I have dreams with Bugs Bunny and the Enterprise in it - but if I depicted one of my own dreams publicly, I'd risk a lawsuit) but refuse to allow that ubiquity when it doesn't serve them.
Unfortunate, there is no indication that the increasingly global plutocracy is going to become reasonable any time in the near future. But I still hold out hope. What would it take for that to happen?
While slightly different I think, it's interesting to contrast this with Lego's attitude toward hacking MindStorms.
Where do I sign up?
Somewhere, something incredible is waiting to be known. -- Carl Sagan
While I disagree with Sony's use of the DMCA to shut down fan websites, I have to say this to the group
GET A LIFE, GO OUT AND BUY A REAL FRIGGIN DOG!
Someday, I'll have a real sig.
Even if you spell "Millenium" correctly there is no such citation in the letter. This is a standard copyright claim, that would be no less valid (or invalid, IANAL) prior to the passage of the Act.
Up until now, it's been remarked how surprisingly tolerant Sony has been of Aibo hacking, and the hacking of Sony's proprietary software. The fact is they weren't as tolerant as hoped, merely slow to act.
Frankly, it's a relief that Sony finally decided to assert their ownership. Perhaps now the recurrent nightmares of a loner Aibo terrorist-hacker unleashing an army of K-9 mechas on the White House will finally cease.
I survived the Dick Cheney Presidency 7 to 9 AM 7-21-07
Slashdot has been having a lot of spelling errors lately...
MS Frontpage has a spellcheck feature doesn't it?
The site owner's logic seems to be, "OK, I'm violating Sony copyrights, but by doing so I'm helping them sell hardware, so it's in their own interest to overlook my violation." He's obviously ignorant of a basic fact of copyright law: if you own a copyright, you must enforce it, or risk losing it. This was true long before the DMCA came along.
Sony might seem to be less enlightened than hacker-friendly outfits like TiVO and Lego. But these companies have merely refrained from prosecuting people who reversed-engineered their systems without trying to rip off software or content. That's not a "prosecute or lose it" issue. If you started distributing modified TiVO or Lego Mindstorms software, they'd be on you in a flash.
While Sony's letter did invoke the DMCA in regards to instructions on circumventing copy protection, most of the files that were requested to be removed were due to standard copyright law. If the author performed edits on Sony's binaries, and redistributed them, then that is a pretty blatent copyright violation. (Not positive that's what he did, but it sounds that way from the letter.) If he published only binary patches, I think he'd be in the clear on copyright law, and probably be safe from the DMCA if he didn't say how to install the patches.
On the other hand, I don't blame him for saying "screw it." Sony ought to lighten up and figure out how to support fans like this while maintaining their intellectual property rights.
The DCMA makes me embarassed to be a citizen of the UAS.
Come on people! Sure the programs were copyrighted. So? Sony was making money off the hardware, not the software. Lego showed us the way with Lego Mindstorms.
Without the customer community, there would bo no company. I for one will not by buying from Sony this Christmas. Promote fanaticism of your user base, it's the only way for a company to survive.
YES shit.
Are there any petitioms to sign against Sony and it's half way war against it's coustomers? First they refused to provide source with a shipped GPL program in one of their products, and now this! Of course lets not forget other things they've done in the past (Fake critic?).
I use to be a fan of Sony.
Anyone?
7 November 2006: The day Americans realized corruption and incompetence weren't addressing 11 September 2001
the aibo is a fucking peice of shit anyways.
it's only a few steps above one of those teddy ruksbin peice of shit stuffed bears.
Here's a general strategy to deal with the overzealous "intellectual property"(more appropriately, idea enslavement) views that the government, corporations, and private "information owners" take.
1. Copy all such useful things to your hard drive -- the files, and the website.
2. Redistribute these files on Kazaa, LimeWire, Usenet, the Internet, etc etc.
3. Repost these files on to-the-point(no graphics) websites using servers in countries which do not respect copyrights.
4. Pursue any other viable means to liberate information and to better give consumers the RIGHT to obtain maximal utlity out of the products THEY own. Inform people about THEIR right to have access to backup copies, to modify/tweak their software, and to offer such modifications/tweaks to the public. Inform people that this right -- say, for example, to publish a texture "patch" for Quake -- which they take for granted, is something companies are trying to eliminate.
This is, in short, a non-traditional civil disobediance approach. No, we are not doing this in public, and letting the police come and arrest us and beat us down. For one thing, we should not have to be treated so horribly for simply exercising OUR rights; for another, that type of approach only works when you have an issue which is simple, and which the vast majority of the public can easily sympathize with(i.e., like segregation). If the issue is too complicated, such as is intellectual property, the general public will not be able to sympathize.
So our approach is use civil disobediance in an anonymous manner. No, we will not be wrongfully scapegoated for doing this. This form of civil disobediance will bring down the laws, ultimately, by making them infeasible and non-workable. If enough people disobey a law, it will go away. Prime example is the ill-informed "prohibition" law. Examples of laws that will eventually go away due to mssive disregard of them and disobediance of them include laws against sodomy, laws against prostitution, laws against stripping, laws against milder drugs such as pot, laws against abortion, laws against assisted-suicide, and laws which enslave information.
social sciences can never use experience to verify their statemen
You've just gone and alienated a substantial number of future Aibo purchasers.
When we pay out $1500 for a robot dog, it is ours to do with as we please. Sure, enforce copyright, but it's not as if the software will run if someone hasn't bought the AIBO to run it on in the first place!! Either way, Sony still get their money for the unit, and anyone who downloads "hacked" software will still have to buy an AIBO to make any use of it. This was mentioned in the letter, but this is illogical under the circumstances as I can see aibohack.com only generating further interest in the AIBO product for people interested in robotics programming projects etc etc
OTOH, copyright law is quite specific, so there are arguments against everything I've just written. Still, an opinion nonetheless.
1. zipping a file compresses it but it is not a technology primarily designed to protect copyright.
2. He is not disputing what is in the zipped files.
This is yet another reason not to buy Sony products...
-------------------
This is my SIG. There are many like it, but this one is mine.
I'm so bored of the slashdot editor purposely making obvious spelling mistakes in a way to get the discussion started.
Throw in a few blatant spelling errors and that garentees a few posts almost immediatly to kick off the story.
This just gives me one more reason to be glad that I stopped buying Sony products.
I used to buy their products religiously, everything the top of the line. My first fun experience was when I brought my $800 (at the time) Sony VCR to their repair center, which happens to be located near me. They wanted $240 just to look at it. Then they were charging $80/hr. plus parts to fix it. The person I talked to at the service center said he thought he knew the problem from the symptoms, and it was about $500 to repair it after the diagnosis, parts, and labor. It really rubbed me wrong when he reached over to a pile of Sony catalogs and handed me one and recommended a replacement model that I could order right then and there. Was this a regular occurance for them? All this when my VCR had about 8 hours of use, and it was just over a month outside of their warranty period.
I also had a similar experience with a camcorder I had spent over a grand on. That's when I decided to stop buying their products. They consider everything disposable, even after just a year of use (or no use for that matter). When I pay a premium for a product, I don't do it just to show other people the brand name. I do it because the company behind the name makes a good quality product and stands behind it. Sony used to make a good product, but they have never stood behind it for me.
Not that they care with their sales volume, but until their service practices change and their product quality returns to what it used to be, they lost me as a customer.
--SONET
Any fool can criticize, condemn and complain and most fools do. --Benjamin Franklin
If you don't want me to use it the way I see fit then I won't have anything to do with your robot dog, I needed an excuse NOT to buy one anyway. Keep it up and I'll personally extend my boycot to your entire line of products.
I know! Reprogram your AIBO to kill DMCA and threat letter wielding Sony Execs and then return it saying its defective. With any luck, one of them will be doing a site visit on the factory that tries to recondition it.
--Won't that be grand? Computers and the programs will start thinking and the people will stop. - Dr. Walter Gibbs
It is clear that the "content" industry is the implacable enemy of civil liberties.
The only moral course of action is to boycott content that isn't open. Don't go to movies, buy
videos, or listen to music--unless it is produced
by those who support liberty and not those who
tread on it.
There comes a time when you can't drink tea
and be patriotic at the same time.
It's DCMA!
:) Makes perfect sense ;)
Defense Contract Management Agency
Any technology distinguishable from magic, is insufficiently advanced.
My eyes are sore from reading the comments in that GAY FUCKING COLOR!
/("&%!")%#"%(#"
DIE DIE DIE DIE DIE DIE DIE DIE DIE DIE DIE
Did anyone put up a mirror ?!
Why are they closing this one site down ?
Things like this can't be helped, another site will soon rise and with a little bit of searching on Google you can still find all the programs that used to be on the site.
This is the same crap as trying to shut down Napster, filesharing isn't dead. Look at download.com's Top10 downloads list, 5 out of the 10 are filesharing progs !!
I read the letter.
It seems very clear that sony is only trying to prevent this guy from
a) Distributing software that sony definately has the copyright on
and
b) Telling people how to break sony's copy protection mechanisms to get such software.
They have no problem with him writing his own aibo software... only with him stealing theirs.
Now.. their use of the anti-circumvention stuff might be a stretch.... but this is a lot less draconian than many things we've seen.
They also go into great detail to explain exactly what it is that bothers them, and exactly why (as opposed to some companies who simply make vague threats)
I might be not understanding this.. but when you think about it, in order to hack an Aibo you need to have one first.. so thats one sale, and when you think of all the things that can go wrong when you start messing around with software/hardware sony either gets another sale, or service charges. While the software may be the real problem here, its not like Sony's competitors don't already have it
:) but when people find out they can use their expensive toys in ways not imagined by the company that made them, it makes a better and happier fan/customer base.
. Think of how many people bought the I-Opener when they found it could run linux (the fact that the company went bankrupt is of no concern to us
--
Insert Witty Sig Here
Why worry about the evil corporations (hmm, SONY comes to mind right about now) and bad governmental actions?
/.
I am so glad that someone is taking the time to fight the injustice of
Just wait until Linux starts destroying the rainforests and enslaving third world children to code.
Oops, I got troll-tricked to offtopic.
Getting diabetes AND salmonella would be a bad weekend.
You do not have to enforce patents, at all. Only trademarks. Patents remain in force.
It is the patent holder's right to enforce his patent or not.
There are probably some procedures regarding knowing someone is using your patent but not telling them, and then later trying to stiff them... but maybe not.
Close, but no cigar.
Patent law was originally intended to promote progress in the sciences, which in modern terms translates to technological innovation.
Copyright law was originally intended to promote progress in the arts, which in modern terms translates to good entertainment.
Copyright law's got nothing to do with innovation, never has. Why it got applied to binary numbers meant to express a simple technological function with no human-readable content whatever, I'll never understand...
(Before the twentieth century, every copyrightable item could be processed by an unaided normal human. We have moved well beyond that: why we stick with the antiquated notion of copyright, I'm not sure.)
my old sig used to be funny, but then slashcode ate it and now it's not funny anymore
He also has an Icybie simulator on his page that uses a 3d model of an Aibo to display actions(because he couldn't find a premade icybie model).
Why didn't Sony freak over this, they are being associated with a competing product. Oh well, everyone buy an I-cybie instead since they are only $199 compared to $1500 for an Aibo.
Ask all the investors that got scammed by VA Linux who they think is a evil corporation right about now...
I was actually pleasantly surprised at the friendliness of the letter. Sony took the care to know pretty much research exactly what the situation is and went so far as provide the URLs of the files they find offensive. You would never see that much attention from M$ or FOX. But I agree that they should follow the LEGO model and even take an active part in the development of the AIBO community.
It's not quite as causal as you suggest. The damage may not be irreparable; if the word does not pass into common use, then it doesn't. Also, even if the trademark holder sues vociferously, irreparable damage may still be done. The classic example is Thermos, where the company sued like crazy to stop stores from labelling the sections where vaccuum bottles were sold anything but vaccuum bottles. Still, now, people call vaccuum bottles Thermos, regardless of who actually made them, and it's no longer a trademark.
Trademark lawyers still suggest that their clients should file suit to protect trademarks. It can help, but it's not a guarantee, either way.
You're completely right about copyright of course :)
my old sig used to be funny, but then slashcode ate it and now it's not funny anymore
What the fuck ever happened to free speach?!?!? There once was a time in this country where free speach meant something.
What has happened to Ralph the Jew Hater Nader?
Has he been censored by the slashdot fascists?
Where has this beloved figure of the slashdot community gone?
Don't tell me that after sept. 11th he turned soft?
Most likely someone like micheal censormaster sims permanently banned his subnet from slashdot.
Free Ralph!!!
Perhaps the Electronic Frontier Foundation can provide advice and perhaps legal support. Are they aware of this situation, and if so are they involved or interested in this situation?
One advantage of this situation is that the whole RIAA infrastructure is not bearing down on this guy, so this might be afight between one person and a single large corporation.
ya i got some funds to transfer too.
Meanwhile, there's the i-Cybie, which does almost as much as the Aibo, but costs $200. From the makers of the Furby(tm).
Ah ya bond funds, gotta diversify.
2 hours later and it still says DCMA
That's funny, because it won't make a difference. How many people out there who own an Aibo even knew that the site existed, much less were interested in using this guy's software? The reason that Sony can get away with bullying web sites and colleges is that no one cares. Let's face it: what damage has the DMCA really done? Why should anyone care about the DMCA? It really doesn't make a difference yet.
The DMCA's lack of affecting more than just the "information wants to be free" zealots, which is just a fringe group, is the reason that crap like this happens.
Join the Slashcott! Stay away entirely Feb 10 thru Feb 17! Close all tabs to prevent autorefresh!
The issue here seems to be driven by copyright and other related legal issues. Sony doesn't tell him he can't write his own programs from scratch. They just don't like him de-compiling Sony's applications. Doing so gives Sony's competitors tools and it raises other legal issues with support and warranty.
The guy should know better and just write his own from scratch. Look at all the Lego related applications that were written from scratch specifically to avoid those kinds of issues.
Please excuse me while I go back through the letter to look for problems with "then/than" and "your/your'e", not to mention the search for the less-than-elusive "definAtely".
I clearly have too much time on my hands...
db
Cig:
ôô
I am looking to purchase a nice ($1500+ US) digital video camera with firewire and a S-VHS capable VCR to go with it in the near future. After seeing this post the only manufacture I can seem to find is JVC...
Probably down the road I would like a high end laptop with firewire also, I heard something about a "VAIO" model, but everytime I look at one I get this "evil taste"(TM) in my mouth.
I appreciate the tone of the letter. It sounds like a person wrote it -- not a lawyer. It seems pretty clear that this wasn't a boiler-plate form letter that was sent off without a thought. Kudos to Sony for having a human send correspondence.
This sig intentionally left justified.
Take a picture of the I-Cybie on his site peeing on the Sony logo.
It's DMCA not DCMA! Idiots! Argh!
Still, it's pretty dumb to assume that the copyright owner will overlook an infraction just because you think it's in their interest to do so. It's like "borrowing" an item from a store -- no matter how sincerely you believe you meant to return it, your intentions will cut no ice if you're nabbed. Even if Sony were to decide to allow redistribution, they'd certainly expect you to ask first!
And, I repeat, this is just not a DMCA issue. True there's a DMCA citation in the letter, but that's just some lawyer covering all the bases. This is a basic copyright case.
If Sony were really serious about using the _DMCA_ against this guy, they would have had his ISP shut his sight down. The DMCA specifically grants Sony the ability to tell his ISP to shut him down - without notifying him directly. It's obvious to me that Sony's own lawyers don't think they have a real DMCA claim.
(The law firm I work for represents an ISP, and we had to advise our client that, yes when someone requests that you shut down a site under the provisions of the DMCA, you have to do it, otherwise the ISP will be held responsible. The DMCA is a big stick, and can be used to very quickly shut down a site. Sony was in no rush to get these files off the internet)
BZZZT. Not wrong.
It's not the same as with trademarks, but a copyright holder who does nothing to enforce it *will* lose the ability to enforce it under the doctrine of estoppel. This is all laid out clearly in, for example, 4 Nimmer and Nimmer, The Defense of Estoppel sec. 13.07: "...a holding out sufficient to raise an estoppel may be accomplished by silence and inaction."
Suing isn't the only way to avoid estoppel, but, then, in trademark law, it isn't the only way to prevent a mark from becoming generic. (Of course, estoppel claims are rarely successful.)
Yes, IAAL.
Lionel Hutts, J.D.
I Can't Believe It's A Law Firm, LLP does not necessarily endorse the contents of this message.
The removal of this web site and all it's software will not hurt Sony's sales. Do you really think that someone sees that site and software and THEN decides to go out and buy a $1500 toy? I think not.
Bob
Comment removed based on user account deletion
Traditional, open civil disobedience works well exactly because it is open. If even one in ten people who disobey copyright covertly (probably about 9.9% of the total population) did so obnoxiously publicly (say, going out on the the street and selling homemade VHS copies of Disney movies), they couldn't all be arrested. A few would, then everybody would just decide it's not worth it, charges would be dropped, and life would go on without copyright.
However, I don't think this would be effective. People want to disobey copyright a little, in private, and make other people pay. So they sneak around, and feel a bit guilty for breaking the law, and give lip service to the value of copyright. They don't want to get rid of it, because they think it will cut way down on new works, just break it themselves.
<digression>
Personally, I think it would be irresponsible to just drop copyright abruptly, which would cause whole industries to fall apart, and maybe take decades to recover from. It would be far better to move away from it gradually, by making public domain work profitable to the creators. Public domain works have major competitive advantages (all else being equal, do you buy the game for $60 or download the free one?), if only people would pay for them voluntarily, it would quickly become more profitable to not use copyright. Profit structure thus adapted and braced for the change, copyright could be abandoned.
So if you want to get rid of copyright, give money to people who give you free stuff.
</digression>
Fighting the DMCA with open civil disobedience might work, though. It's obscure, so it would be hard to get people to attack it, but it would also be easier to get the majority to decide it's not worth it. If you could get a large portion (say a quarter) of technical professionals to blatantly violate it, aside from the logistical problems of punishing them, it would no doubt convince people who didn't know and didn't care about the DMCA that it was a bad thing. The biggest problem is feeling out the support, and organizing it; you'd probably break lots of laws doing that. Really, the only way to do it is to lead by example. One person's open defiance and stoic acceptance of punishment could inspire a few emulators, who would encourage a few more fence-sitters to put themselves un, until joining the protest would just be jumping on the bandwagon.
Being such a momentary martyr could be profitable, if the support is there. He would become famous, and respected by everyone who followed his example. Unless, of course, nobody followed his example, then he'd just get the punishment. How much do people hate the DMCA? Big gamble, especially when it might be struck down without anyone disobeying it. The much wiser course might be a real paper petition; if people are really that opposed, collecting even a million signatures shouldn' t be a problem. It's not flashy, but it beats going to jail.
Almost anything is less ridiculous and more likely to succeed than an idealist slinking around like a criminal.
I'm probably going to get moded as a troll or flambait just for sharing, but here goes:
S.O.N.Y Suing Others Now You!
A.I.B.O...And It Becomes Opressive.
(My sig was in error as I had *Opressed* insted of *Repressed*, but I was corrected. I wonder if Monty Pytho's creators would sue for getting their quotes wrong in sigs? (shudder) )
Have you read the moderator guidelines? Well, have you, PUNK? (and I want a Karma: Gnarly option)
I've seen this mentioned in only one post so far and I have not seen an adequate answer yet. It is my understanding that the copyright law allows for non-commercial copying. Sony can stop the distribution of the software only if it can show damages resulting from the distribution. In this case there are none. The distribution of said software does not cause Sony to lose sales (indeed, it actually stimulates sales), since you need to have this aibo thingy in order to use the software. So, techinically, Sony cannot just bust in swinging DMCA and force the software off the net: since there are no damages in this case, the copying is legal. IANAL and I would like a lawyer to comment on this (if there is one here). Now, I do realize that in practice it doesn't matter: he who has the deepest pockets always wins.
Secondly, what "copy-protection" is this guy talking about? What exactly does it "protect" and what does it have to do with aibo?
On a side note, it really irritates me when they refer to "copy-protection mechanism". Let's call it what it really is: copy-prevention mechanism. It does not "protect" anything; it prevents you from making copies. I guess "protection" puts a better spin on it...
___
If you think big enough, you'll never have to do it.
Yes. There was a /. article some time ago about a contractor who lost $2 million because of some buggy bidding software. The EULA said they could not sue for damages caused by fucked code...they won, he lost.
jik-
Actually we need a network secure from outside interference, that requires some nifty legal footwork, and can be done, I've spend 2 years working out exactly how to do so, unfortunately I'm short about $50M, if there is anyone out there who might be interested mailme - turbojerryNOSPAM@yahoo.com and I don't like SPAM obviously.
Maybe someone should send all the Sony execs copies of the Cluetrain Manefesto then, perhaps it could be done through the EFF or something, when I come across clueless execs I give them a copy and make sure they read it, they can change you know, it just takes a push in the right direction.
Any sufficiently advanced man is indistinguishable from God
Copyright law was originally intended to promote progress in the arts, which in modern terms translates to good entertainment.
You think a novelist or an artist can't be innovative?
Anyway, this is a gross misrepresentation of the meaning of "the arts." If that was the case, they would have only applied it to works of fiction. In such formal speech, "the arts" is used in the root sense of productive skills, not merely entertainment, which is why you see a title like "The Art of Computer Programming."
Also, when it was settled that copyright could be applied to software, the justification was clearly to reward progress/innovation in software development.
The only way companies are going to stop doing stupid things like this is if they begin to understand that many people become less inclined to buy their products when they do so.
The DMCA allows copyright holders to compell ISPs to blind their clients? MY GOD!
I will now leave this planet for absolutely no raisin.
the same company who makes 2000 linux kits for the ps2 in japan, which sell out in 8 minutes, but wont make more? Why would a company not want to make an extremely popular, profitable product? *especially* since recently sony posted a loss? Seems like sony's execs have forgotten they are running a business and need to make money..oh wait...they must have drank from the same kool aid vat as most dot com execs have...oh well...
Life goes on. Ive always held Sony as being top notch, but this kind of behavior makes me reconsider that...
'Y Tu, Sony?'
Dude he probably came across someones old account info somewhere and jacked the account.
"Digital Convergence"
Remember the CueCat? Well the company that made them went after hackers who were interested in their products. Now they are out of business and in major debt.
You know this is the result of some jackass in the legal dept. or the board room. Usually, Sony is pretty cool about this stuff. But, if they wage war with their customers (especially the ones who encourage other people to buy products) then AIBO isn't goint to last long.
Who the hell needs a $1500 robot dog anyway?
Thank you.
A good slap in the face to those with disposable income is an interesting way to prepare for a recession. Way to go Sony, gotta keep those pesky customers in line!
Not D-C-M-A
Jeez, why does everybody parrot the guy's original error in his web page?
Is the DMCA so accepted that no one remebers what it stands for any more?
Infuriate left and right
That the AIBO is built on alien technology, and that it is years beyond any true AI development we have of our own...
I mean... it's sony, they've already got one of these aliens in all their mini-disk commercials.
:)
The way things have been pushed with the DMCA, it seems that in a few years reverse engineering any technology will be illegal. These people don't do it to make any kind of monetary gain, but do it out of the interest that drives all engineers. If you can't buy something and figure out how it works, then how will you learn about engineering. I know most of myself and most of my engineer friends had much interest tinkering around with electronic toys when we were growing up. Now if no kid can take apart his latest toy he got two months ago because Sony or anyone else will sue him, then how will kids gain an interest and some initial experience in engineering, then what will the nation do in thirty years when there aren't enough engineers to solve problems.
Just something to think about.
Let me say that again. Even the site's maintainer admits that Sony was within their rights to ask the software be pulled.
The fellow freely admits that he is in violation of copyright by providing copies of someone else's files without permission.And this rates the big, nasty, ominous headline, "Sony Uses DMCA to Shut Down AIBO Hack Site"...why? It's a "Your Rights Online" issue? What about Sony's rights online?
Even if the DMCA did not exist, Sony would still be asking that the files be removed. For that matter, the DMCA itself is only incidental to this issue, and barely even mentioned in passing--even if it did not exist, those files still contain material that belongs to Sony, and Sony would still be asking that they be taken down!
Yes, you can boo and hiss and moan about how unfair it all is, and what a mean nasty company Sony is, and maybe even cry boycott for all the good it'll do. But in the end, Sony has the right to ask that these files be taken down.
I've got 50 Karma, do your worst.
Editor Emeritus and Senior Writer, TeleRead.org
Open civil disobediance only works when you have a no-brainer issue that many people will sympathize with. Open civil disobediance, as was done by ML King, works by pressuring public officials to change the law, by turning public opinion against them.
The fact of the matter is that intellectual property issues don't get air time. They don't get on TV, don't get on the O'Reilly factor or on the McClaughlin Group -- too abstract and complicated for the typical tiny American mind to deal with. Most people are dumb(think of how dumb the avg. person is; then think that probably half of the people are dumber).
What I'm advocating is not necessarily "sneaky" disobediance. It's just disobediance not in the public's eye. Individuals shouldn't go out of their way to get media attention on specific acts of copyright violations. If this is the strategy, you won't get many recruits. What we will do is try to get some attention collectively as a group in a general sense. As a group -- or individually anonymously -- say that we IP laws are wrong and that we violate them. Saying that we as a group violate IP laws doesn't create significant risk for any members, as it refers to no specific act.
Civil disobediance done with attempts to avoid imprisonment does work. It worked rather well for prohibition. Prohibition was ignored by almost everyone, and it was thus doomed from the start. So what we need to do is to create risk minimal ways for people to disobey IP laws(i.e., P2P services). When the risk to disobeying IP is minimal, there is little impediment to doing so. Many people will start disobeying the IP laws, and they will inevitably crumble.
social sciences can never use experience to verify their statemen
"We must boycott Sony. We must refuse to buy their tasty electronic gadgets, however tempting. We must - Oh! They're releasing the PS2 Linux kit in the US? Gotta go; I'm going to camp outside Fry's."
Seriously, we need to remember what Sony is next time they wave their enticements in our face.
Authoring a creative work automatically generates copyright protection for whatever the hell the current limits are
There are no de facto limits, as nothing in the Constitution prevents Congress from repeatedly retroactively extending the de jure "limited times" (Read More...) except perhaps the "ex post facto" restriction against restoring copyright in already expired works.
F*** the late Sonny Bono because he introduced that bill. F*** Cher because she supported it.
Will I retire or break 10K?
Yeah yeah, DMCA bad, etc., now the real question, where are the files so we can all spread them around even though most of us don't have Aibo's and couldn't care less otherwise.
When are these hacker folks going to get smart and put text-encoded versions of this stuff on HTML pages and then let Google cache them??
Though, I bet Sony will back down after a while, and this will all blow over, even though they are a EvilMediaCompany(tm) they are also a CoolHardwareCompany(R)..
My concern here is control: I should be able to do what I want with the things that I own. I do not believe that corporations should dictate the terms on which I use products I rightfully own.
Note the "rightfully own" part. Aibo hacks are (generally) only useful to Aibo owners. People who paid Sony money. We're not talking about hacks that allow people to steal from Sony by making illegal copies. We're talking about hacks that allow people to do something different with property they own. There are ways Sony can work this out gracefully. If Sony chooses not to, I will choose avoid buying their products.
This is the letter that will be going out on Monday morning:
To: Victor Matsuda
Vice President
SONY
Sony Electronics Inc.
Entertainment Robot America
6701 Center Drive West, Suite 640, Los Angeles, California 90045
From:
Re: Sony's response to www.aibopet.com
Greetings!
I am deeply saddened by Sony's predatory and short-sighted response to www.aibopet.com. As a professional programmer, I appreciate Sony's concern about its intellectual property. I am not an advocate of piracy or the theft of intellectual property. Your efforts to shutdown www.aibopet.com misunderstand the desires and interests of consumers. Aibo, as a robot dog, is something that, realistically, will only appeal to a small segment of the population -- a segment with both the means to purchase an Aibo, and an interest in gadgets. Here is (was) a site dedicated to enabling intrepid Aibo owners to try new out things, to play with their gadget. The software provided on the Aibo site was only useful for Aibo owners.
Sony's actions seem to be rooted in the notion that corporations should have the right to control how their products are used. As a consumer, I resent that notion. I have been very pleased with the Sony products I have bought, but actions like this make me wonder when Sony will be trying to control what I watch on my Sony WEGA television, which disks I play on my Sony 200 CD changer, or what programs I run on my Sony Vaio notebook. (I have at least $2000 of Sony equipment in my house.) I love gadgets. Before I buy a new gadget, I go online to how hackable it is. Hacking with the gadget is more than half the fun. Sony's response to www.aibopet.com guarantees that I - one of the rich geeks most likely to spring for your products - will not buy an Aibo. Sony's response will also make me consider very carefully whether to buy other Sony products in the future, including Sony's entertainment offerings.
Please reconsider your response to www.aibopet.com. Perhaps Sony could host the files, and thereby guarantee that only registered Aibo owners can download them. There are ways of working this out that do not necessitate restricting what the rightful owners of Sony products can do. Of course, this assumes that Sony wants to work things out. Perhaps Sony is only interested in shutting www.aibopet.com down, in which case, I will no longer be interest in buying Sony products.
Thank you for your time; I look forward to your response.
I'm not familiar with the software that Sony wanted removed. Sony seems to think that that some software was copied or modified Sony product, and the site owner doesn't contradict this. If that's true, than any DMCA issues are secondary.
The Digital Millennium Copyright Act contained more than the Section 1201 anti-circumvention provisions. In this case, DMCA added a clear method called "takedown notice" for copyright owners to make ISPs remove infringing material. First step: cease-and-desist the webmaster. Second step: send a takedown notice to the whole chain of ISPs all the way up to the backbone. Third step: If the webmaster doesn't file a counterclaim, take him or her to court.
Will I retire or break 10K?
read the Sony provided memorystick.org
MemoryStick.org is written in Engrish:
Will I retire or break 10K?
... they're afraid of Aibo learning how to guide nukes like the PlayStation 2.
Men believe what they want. - Caesar
This song is not based on "YCMA".
Young man,
there's no need to feel down
Because your plane
back home can't get off the ground
I said young man,
Get comfy in your new town
There's no need to be unhappy.
Young man,
There's no place you can go
I said young man,
Until you cough up some dough
You will stay here
until you've served all your time
For your insignificant crime.
It's fun to stay in the U S of A,
Because of that old grand D M C A
For cracking DVD's,
Or an e-book or three,
You'll get jailed for eterniteeeee...
It's fun to stay in the U S of A
Because of that old grand D M C A
For proving to the world
That our encryption's a toy
You'll get jailed with all the boyyyyyyys...
--
Will I retire or break 10K?
That being said, it's odd that a lot of the current legal threats (CueCat, this, Mp3.com's beam-it) is that there is no economic loss to the company! I've never gone to AiboPet, but from the letter, it sounded like a person would need a memory stick to use downloaded programs. The only way Sony could lose money is if either different Aibo program memory sticks were sold for different prices (buy a low priced one, the replace it with a higher-priced program), or if a 'non-Aibo' memory-stick could be used that cost a lot less than the 'Aibo-program' memory sticks.
I think this could be considered fair use, because it's non-commercial, for research and education purposes, and does not actually interfere with their profit potential. OTOH, if someone cloned AIBO, they might have some reasonable justification to interfere.
Fair use cannot be used as a defense for unauthorized _distribution_ of copyrighted material. Use != distribution.
Check out the great overview of copyright law at Findlaw:
http://profs.lp.findlaw.com/copyright/index.html
Copyright law isn't logical, of course. Mitigating circumstances don't remove one's liability unfortunately.
Crazy.
-core
Okay. Time to feed the trolls.
Let's face it: what damage has the DMCA really done? Why should anyone care about the DMCA?
This is just what I came up with off of the top of my head. I'm sure there are other cases that I didn't mention. So in answer to your question, start with the above list and go from there. If you still don't think that the DMCA has done any damage, then have a good slumber in the bed that you've made.
- Stealth Dave
Evil is as eval("does");
Stifling innovation is exactly what copyright and other intellectual property holders want: the legal wherewithal to stifle their competitor's innovation. When consumers, small business people, hackers, tinkerers, and artists show up at Congress with briefcases full of cash and limos full of interns, perhaps we can expect some change.
And I'm a little disappointed by the attitude that Sony should just be nice to its fans. Any law that relies on the kindness, or even the self interest, of the party that can enforce it to be a fair law, is one messed up law.
That got me thinking. Why don't all those poor Mexicans just break the DMCA in Mexico and the nice people from the US Government will come and get them and take them to the that wonderful place, the USofA. Might stem the flow of IT refugees leaving, too.
The man with no surname and a silly hat
On the universe: It's bunk.
Just as a thought - isn't the software provided by Aibohack providing the user and AIBO owner greater interoperability. Here is an interpretation of the DMCA from http://www.tuxers.net/dmca/dmca-guide.html Subsection (f) grants an exemption permitting reverse engineering to subsections (a) and (b) above, for the extremely narrow purpose of bypassing access controls in a legally obtained computer program in order to study it in order to create a separate, interoperable program. This is certainly a helpful provision, but it only applies to the development of software, not to hardware, and not to the separate circumvention aids which would be needed to restore lost "fair use" or free speech abilities of normal consumers. It might be of some help in the particular case of developing a DVD player for Linux, depending on the interpretation of a number of terms and clauses. ItsDead.
+ He programed Aibo to copy dance moves from some crapy boy-band, which sony own thus violating copyrights. Also, Aibo did it so well, that their jobs where at risk
..cough.. plugs itself in and uploads video, audio, and GPS data to Sony HQ.
+ He was getting to close to discovering that after dark and when knowone is looking, Aibo finds the nearest phone line, sticks it's
+ The encryption method they use is actually the same system that will be adopted for the SSSCA, and Sony were just future proofing.
+ He managed to disable the "Aibo kill owner" command that activates when Aibo detects someone pirating Sony material and tries to kill them using a hidden array of deadly weapons.
This comment does not represent the views or opinions of the user.
And don't forget, without Copyright law, the GPL would be unenforceable - so think before attakcing copyrights!
However, the DMCA is a perversion of the once-reasonable copyright system (as was the Bono extension, for that matter).
Choice of masters is not freedom.
but actions like this make me wonder when Sony will be trying to control what I watch on my Sony WEGA television, which disks I play on my Sony 200 CD changer, or what programs I run on my Sony Vaio notebook
And they aren't trying to tell anyone how to play with their Aibo...
Sony wants you to watch stuff on your WEGA, to play disks on your 200 CD changer, and to run programs on your Vaio. They do not want to to hack these products and then distribute the copyrighted information contained within.
This guy hacked the toy and is distributing the software as well as modifications to the software
This could allow companies to make cheaper versions of the toy that have the same functionality
I know some people around here don't like this, but every action by a megacorp isn't an attept to crush freedom and control the world. This is just a company trying to protect their products.
Such a dilemma... Sony is cracking down on a cool hack for the Aibo just about the same time that they are coming out with a US version of Linux for the PS2.
Perhaps those that really care about this will give the letter a close read and come up with intelligent points on how they are being unjust or mean. Let them know that because of this you are not going to buy a PS2 or the Linux addon for it. Send these reasons off to both arms of Sony so that they realize that the behavior of one impacts the profits of the other.
Personally, I think Sony would buy a lot here by spending less on lawyers and spending a little on an engineer to help this guy come up with an approved SDK.
In my opinion, nothing on the hack site was a violation of Sony's copyright. Reverse engineering is not illegal. Neither is text or mathematical descriptions of encryption technology. Nothing on the site would allow anyone to break Sony's protection or harm Sony in the slightest. I challenge Sony to demonstrate otherwise. Something interesting is that this is the only site that Sony has gone after. Another prominent site comes to mind that has actual Sony code on it. That code is considered to be "device drivers" since it was distributed for free and is useless without the hardware for which it is written. The biggest problem in my mind is that the new VP is knee jerking without having all the facts. The problem started earlier in the year when a letter was sent to AiboPet regarding copyright violations by Takeshi Yazawa. This matter was resolved in person, verbally, at the Cinco de Aibo meeting on May 5 in Los Angeles which was attended by myself, AiboPet, Takeshi Yazawa (the then head of Sony ERA), the second in command and others from Sony. The new top dog, Victor Matsuda, apparently did not consult anyone. He is oblivious to the verbal agreement. He also did not consult his second in command. I personally called and spoke with this person and verified this. Sony's sales of this robot are dismal in the US. They are clueless on how to market to the US. We in the Aibo community have told them time and time again how to accomplish better sales. They don't listen. Now they pull a stunt like this, which is only going to hurt the community and their sales even more. Usually companies embrace their core users because these people are free support to others, free advertising, free ... - you get the picture.
Not Sony. We have been treated with suspicion and kept at arms length, despite my best efforts to get a working relationship with Sony.
Not everyone at Sony is this way, but they all have their hands tied. I can't count the number of times that a Sony employee has said to me "You don't want me to lose my job, do you?" after asking a simple and reasonable request or making some innocuous statement.
Heck, Sony did a big investigation on me in the earlier days. They wanted to know how I knew what the internal lab name for their robot was! They thought they had a leak or a spy. They even sent someone out to "interview me" to find out. (Too long a story for here). The damn name was right there in their ROMS!
I have never encountered a company that was so paranoid and clueless in my life. They make some incredible products and have amazing R&D, but that is the only positive thing about them. The negatives far outweigh the positives.
Negatives include:
- a pathological paranoia about their products
- a gross inability to market their products
- poor customer support (I have long upsetting stories about my Sony products that have needed service - Aibo, MD player, etc)
- their prices are extremely high. Competing products (Aibo is an exception) can usually be purchased with the same features, reliablilty, etc for much less than the Sony product
- a disdain for the very people that buy their products. Japan is a very closed society. Have they helped in the slightest with the Afganistan problem? No. Heck, even most of the Arab countries and even China and Russia have gotten on the anti-terrorism bandwagon but not Japan.
This list could get very long and this post is long enough. That should be enough to chew on.
What the hell is the DCMA ??!?
First DMCA, now this.
Don't cha think Sony is taking this "can't teach an old dog new tricks" a bit to seriously?
What I find interesting here is the difference in attitude that two organizations have took to this issue. Recall that in a similar situation, rather than attacking a user Lego embraced the user community and supported Mindstorms hacks. As a result they increased interest in their product and in the process, its sales.
The problem is that you have to have the original to modify. This guy not only distributed the original+modification, which is dodgy under conventional copyright law, but he also distributed the tools for patching, which is dodgy under the DMCA.
In fact the second approch of distributing patches plus patching tools would still be allowed in the EU. This is where the DMCA sucks big time!!!
See my journal, I write things there
Feel free to now add Sony to the list of corporations that pose a threat to Free development. We've always been aware of the threat Microsoft posed to Free, Open, collaborative development, now this. I guess these corporations are only into making money - that's why they were invented, and that is their sole mission. It doesn't matter that laws and policies like these are not in the best interest of the community. It's all about money. While I am horridly disgusted, nothing (except perhaps my inability to contribute) will prevent me from supporting open innovation.
Stepping back a second, what is the point of copyright?
At its most fundamental level, I would argue copyright is there to guarantee that producers of abstract, copyable products can get paid for their work. Copyright ensures that if I write a book, I can sue someone who tries to present it as their own.
How does this apply here? The Aibo isn't an abstract work. The software isn't sold separately. You can't do anything with it without shelling out over $1000 for an Aibo.
Yes, I would feel differently about this if these were add-on packages you bought separately. Though in this case I would argue you should still be able to write programs which will do binary updates on the packages and freely post them, without legal malignment.
The only way I can see justifying a copyright argument here is if you see copyrights as equivalent to patents, which provide control over what people can do with an idea.
As to concerns about cheap knock-offs, first of all we're talking about binary images here. Yeah, you can learn alot from the binaries, but it's still going to be awfuly hard to produce a cheap knock-off without the source, unless you use identical hardware. It's using cheaper parts that's going to allow you to sell a cheaper product while still keeping high margins. Second, if somebody puts together a competing product using Sony's code, that's the time to sue them. Finally, as I note in my letter, Sony could go ahead and post the files on a Sony controlled web-site, allowing users to still enjoy hacking their Aibo, without distribution to non-Aibo owners. Of course, this could be subject to censorship, so I'm not sure it's the best solution but still, it's better than just shutting things down.
As to Sony controlling the world, think about something like the SSSCA. You start with controls that keep you from running software with unknown copyrights on your PC, or watching them on your TV, or listening them on you CD. After all, why do your consumer electronics need to facilitate the use of questionable? What's to prevent another step to products which only play works with "certified copyrights"? And what's to prevent the industry from making "certified copyrights" very difficult to obtain? The amalgamation of consumer electronics and entertainment companies can easily lead to this sort of abuse. Think about region codes on DVDs. Why should Sony be able to dictate where in the world I can play a DVD I purchased? We are already seeing our rights impinged by the corporate world. I think you might be surprised a megacorp would do if given the opportunity.
... that without Aibopet my Aibo's would be just cute little robots that wandered about my living room and changed occasionally. With Aibopet's tools they are fascinating machines that I can watch from the inside, change, and interact with in a meaningful and interesting manner.
I have an ERS 111 and an ERS 210 and I must say that the software that was supplied with them (outside of their personality software) was limited and poor. Had I only had that to rely on I would have lost interest two days after receiving my ERS 111 and I would never had bought the 210.
Aibopet and the previous VP of Sony were able to come to an agreement that was a win win for all parties, why can't a similar thing happen with the new VP - is this some kind of power trip he is on to stamp his mark on the job! If it is he has pissed a whole heap of Aibo owners in the process.
People like Aibopet should be encouraged, he is the embodiment of what lies at the heart of the hacker ethic - he works for the good of the Aibo community, he works for free, he shares without expecting anything, and he has done his best to play within the rules. He deserves the support and the recognition of the hacker community for his efforts.
....Be careful of dueling with dragons - you are crunchy and taste good with tomato sauce....
Here are some petitions that /.'ers might be interested in:
O.K. some are similar and you may not agree with my statements. Please don't flame me, post petitions that you support.
I have not seen anyone mention this petition Soo, here it is now go and sign it people.
You are missing the fact that the DMCA specifically protects them. The device they sold you had a copy protection mechanism.
I agree, in principle, that the anti-circumvention clauses in the DMCA are wrong.. but they are currently law. That is my point. My point is that Sony is NOT 'stretching' the meaning of the DMCA in order to enforce this. IT's within their rights.
Sony is interfering with reverse engineering, but not directly. It is a right, in that it's not a crime.. that doesn't mean you can break laws in order to achieve it (even if they are bad laws)
we have to like the situation. People here are objecting on a commonsense ground.
Come on! What does Sony lose by this "violation"? The software would only work on Sony hardware, meaning only Sony's customer can use it. Objecting to this does paint a nasty picture of Sony for itself, if you ask me.
Being legally within your rights doesn't necessarily mean you are nice and likeable and people should buy your products. Sony's act naturally evoked this reaction and no legal argument can change it.
I can see with the recent events similar to this one that USA is not as free country as the citizens claim.
NSA, DCMA, ECHELON, CARNIVORE, etc, etc, where are you going tomorrow ? all brains implanted with a GPS ?, probably... (at least they'll begin with cellular phones.)
Bill Gates, you freaking looser, I OWN your BIOS.
DMCA, Hollings, Palladium. What might have sounded like paranoia is now common sense.
Freenet.
I'll bet the designers of Freenet never thought the US would be one of the biggest content contributors due to sites being eradicated from the net. I long for the day when FP's are Freesite mirrors of the eradicated content.
Intelligent Life on Earth
I think a novelist or an artist can't be innovative in the sense that we normally hear the word bandied about by venture capitalists and that kind of creature.
That's right. However, there was a huge debate at the time about copyright being applied to binary code.
There was really no debate about copyright applying to source. Source is easily human-readable with minimal technological support, much like an audio CD is human-readable.
The debate was: should copyright apply to binary code? The software industry wanted the answer to be yes, because iff it was, then computer programmers would be able to both conceal their techniques and profit from copyright. Having your cake and eating it too.
When a novelist is innovative, you can easily see the technique that is being used. For an example, look at Tolkien. Many other authors have used his techniques, and in fact we have a genre of fiction largely based on his work. They didn't have to reverse engineer his writing technique, they just read it.
Not so with programmers: and it was this particular decision in the law that the GPL was designed to fight. The GPL seeks to prevent programmers from concealing the source, while our copyright law is designed to encourage programmers to conceal the source.
my old sig used to be funny, but then slashcode ate it and now it's not funny anymore
Without copyrighted binary code, the GPL would be unnecessary (and EULAs would be irrelevant). The argument made by Pamela Samuelson and many of her friends was that only source code should get copyright protection.
my old sig used to be funny, but then slashcode ate it and now it's not funny anymore
This sounds oh so familiar to the case against bleem! software, and especially bleem!cast. These products in effect replaced the console that sony sells at a loss and encourages endusers to buy more software which causes a profit for sony. They didn't care about this, they just wanted control of the market, which may seem strange to many of us, but is a common japanese mindset from what i understand.
just my two sense.
sig? uhh, umm, ok
Step back and think about this for a while. What exactly is the purpose of copyright law, and how is that purpose furfilled by these actions?
In traditional publishing, US copyright was inteded to promote publications by a temprorary franchise on books, articles and what not. These laws were not translated into non human readable forms such as piano player rolls.
Applications to mass distributed binary files does not make sense. AiboPet coppied a section or sections or the whole enchalada of a mass produced and mass distributed binary file. He's done a little work, but it only reveals what exists in thousands of places already. He's not reproducing Aibos, he has simply read one he owns and told the rest of us how it works. Anyone who wanted to clone Aibos could without any help from AiboPet, so the protection is non existent.
What Sony wants is an exclusive franchise to all things Aibo. They don't want anything made for Aibo that does not make money for them.
DMCA, Hollings, Palladium. What might have sounded like paranoia is now common sense.
...I have no difficulty using sourceforge.net from Europe. Plenty of hosting services here on offer, and no DMCA (-- yet :-( )
I bet you've got a copy of Maya on your hard drive aswell just 'cos it costs so much.
Uh... doesn't one of those multi-college robotics competitions reprogram these little robotic dogs for their soccer comeptition to see who can program the best AI?
I think here we have a clear case of the DMCA getting in the way of scientific progress in the area of artifical intelligence.
Has Sony gone after these other folks too?
If they don't go after EVERYONE who violates their copyright through the DMCA, then don't they lose the right to go after ANYONE?
it is packing and not designed to encrypt things so the DMCA does not apply. I suppose if YOU DID use the zip password protection then you might have a point...hmmmm but how would the end users know what the password is, and if it was publically available then Sony could legally get it and legally by-pass the security...catch 22 here.
errr....umm...*whooosh* *whoosh* Is this thing on ?
Is anyone doing a good job of tracking these DMCA violations and the protests associated with them? It would be nice if a professionally maintained site could be presented to lawmakers to show them the number of actual persons were affected by these legal decisions.
- Michael T. Babcock (Yes, I blog)
With the current state of the government, which is worse, DMCA or the Anti-Terror Bill that was just signed by Bush?
I realize that the DMCA is bad, but where should the energies be focused? Whats worse: X MoneyBags Inc stopping you from hacking their robot or Big Brother snooping your connection while you look for ways to hack X Moneybags Inc's robot? Or even worse, being arrested because Big Brother *thinks* you were *going* to hack a robot?
This is definately not flamebait, an honest question and hopefully a decent answer.
Just remove the Sony software, port Linux to it, and write new software. Totally hackable again! If you dont use their software your not breaking their copyrights.
The above is not worth reading.
The solution here is simple. Jsut take the site, post it to freenet: http://freenet.sourceforge.net. That's where you download teh client. That way, it is untraceable and they can't take it down.
Problem solved
That is what I say - if you want it done right, and you want it done Free, build it yourself. Many hobbiests have built many walking and rolling robots - it isn't that hard to build a robot platform, and code it yourself.
The hardware to do this is almost literally lying around - both used and surplus parts, gearmotors, batteries, acrylic sheet - all of it is cheap, cheap, CHEAP!
Hell, I am on a budget right now saving for a house, and I am still able to find enough money to buy cheapo parts for a bot I am building. Those with more cashflow can go further, much further. Don't want to get "dirty"? Buy a Mindstorm kit or two!
Need a computer to control it all? A Basic Stamp is cheap enough, or you can get to the metal with a 16F84 PIC (hell, buy several - they are cheap enough, and a parallel port programmer is easy to build, plus code to convert BASIC to PIC opcodes is freely available on the net). Or, use an old 486 or pentium board - interface to an ISA slot, or hook an 8255A to the parallel port (or, if you don't need more than 20 or so bits of I/O, hook straight to the parallel port - but use hex buffers if you value the port). This stuff is cheap, often free! Want more "hack" value - use a C=64 or Apple IIe motherboard!!
Come on! We don't need Sony - THEY NEED US! Let them and the people that work for them suffer and starve for their corporate short-sightedness. That is the free market (like the market is really free anymore, but I doubt laws could be made to force us to buy from them).
Reason is the Path to God - Anon
Saying that we as a group violate IP laws doesn't create significant risk for any members, as it refers to no specific act.
There is a risk for prosecution under the RICO Act. That is serious, you can be sentenced to decades in prison for that.
Just because it CAN be done, doesn't mean it should!
As others have mentioned, Sony is, even DMCA notwithstanding, within its rights to tell this guy to pull down their software. It is copyrighted software.
However, this is still yet another case of a company doing more harm than good in their zealous over-protection of intellectual property laws. Though the software involved was largely copyrighted by Sony, with small tweaks by the people running the site, the software was only of use to people who owned Aibo's in the first place. Sony should realize what part of the Aibo it is that actually makes them money (hint: its the Aibo hardware, without which the software is useless) and focus on that. Having people enthusastically modifying the software to do cool things can only help their market share.
They must have forgotten that the Aibo is NOT a mainstream product, its a product for geeks with a lot of money. This sort of action is exactly the type that will erode that market fast. Lego realized this early on, and that's why they've mostly been OK (with the exception of the LegOS name, which I totally understand for trademark reasons) with people hacking their product.
This is really a small incident that is part of a MUCH larger problem that involves things such as specs for video cards and other add-in devices, the future of fair-use when it comes to media, etc. I wonder how long its going to take the US government to realize that, while they may gain (in the form of lobby money) in the short-term, these laws (like DMCA) they are passing are going to have a disasterous effect on America in the long-term..If its illegal for kids to hack, where are the top-flight engineers going to come from 10 years from now? Not the USA, that's for sure.
And, lastly, screw Sony anyway. I used to be a loyal Sony customer until about 4-5 years ago. They used to sell great products at reasonable prices and weren't known for their legal transgressions... These days it's impossible for me to support a company whose quality of products has fallen, who have been trying to create a Microsoft-like monopoly in the console gaming industry, who is a major player in both the MPAA and RIAA, etc. Fuck you, Sony. You won't ever get a dime of my money in the future.
2. Feed him real good.
3. Walk him by Sony headquarters when he's feeling "bloated".
Hey... at least it wasn't an implant in *your* head.
"You must try to forget all you have learned. You must begin to dream." -- Sherwood Anderson
It would be great to build a Linux cluster of these
--
Socrates was asked where he was from. He replied not "Athens," but "The world."
Consider another kind of copyrighted material, song lyrics. As with the Aibo software, you really would think that the people who own the songs would be glad for the free PR. But as everybody knows, all unauthorized lyric servers have been shut down. Media companies just don't like anybody redistributing their IP.
And yet you can find the lyrics to almost any song online. But they're all on personal sites where somebody has posted the lyrics to a dozen or so favorite songs. If the media companies don't like lyric servers, how the lyrics are still available? Because going after personal sites is like trying to kill ants with a hammer.
OK, I say something stupid, I get ten replies. One is a simple correction, another is an informative comment on the DMCA issue. The other 8 are just redundant. Get a life, people!
Or why is Coke still copywrited? Theirs expired, and they forgot to renew it for like 3-4 years in 80s or 90s... They then quietly filed a re-up.
There's a guy who had his IP stolen when he was trying to pitch old coke cans to Coke as a marketing scheme, they copied his stuff, didn't get him a dime, and then used his ideas...
Laws only work for the rich. Those rich enough to hire lawyers to enforce them, or those lucky enough to be on the good side of cops who can choose to prosecute people on felonies (ie: not gonna help your IP or contract problems).
-- Ender, Duke_of_URL
There's a lot of talk here about Sony stifling innovation and programming of AIBO. I ought to set the record straight here (assuming I haven't missed someone already doing it).
Not only do SONY want people to add functionality to AIBO, they sponsor a competition for it - the Sony Legged Robot Soccer league in Robocup. Go to http://www.cs.cmu.edu/~robocup2001 or http://www.robocup.org for an description.
You just have to buy licences to use their SDK. True, it's not open source, but you can't say that Sony aren't letting people hack AIBO.
-- This post is about truth, beauty, freedom, and above all things, Karma
I didn't think Google cached .zip files, only text & html - or spiderable pages....
a ck .com
I tried this:
http://www.google.com/search?q=link%3Awww.aiboh
Suggested that one of the personal site owners post files if he's got them.
-- Ender, Duke_of_URL
>...they couldn't all be arrested. A few would,
>then everybody would just decide it's not worth
>it, charges would be dropped...
In a society where there is a profit motive for building and populating prisons, it is not inconceivable that they *could* all be arrested.
-fb Everything not expressly forbidden is now mandatory.
I have learned from my political science course that SiG's get things done in this country for the following reasons:
1) Volunteers get politicians elected and
2) Campaign fundraisers.
So where can i join the Anti-DMCA Sig?
Maybe then we wouldn't have to deal with crap like this.
The same shoe will also fit on the other foot. Maybe one day people will think it criminal to leave an idea languishing with a poverty stricken individual instead of realising its full potential with a cashed up development fund.
For the record, I find the idea that a notional entity should enjoy more privileges than a flesh & blood person to be a worrysome development.
Xix.
"Everything is adjustable, provided you have the right tools"
The software is Cacheman a proper memory manager for Windows from Outer Technologies.
Anyways, the thing is very usefull software, and saved me lots of headaches by keeping my Windows 95 running without mandatory twice a day reboots.
You know what? - It's free for private used!!! Anybody wanting support can pay 10$ to get it.
So? I just paid those 10$, not because i want/need support, but because i want to support good software.
After all this self congratulation where am i trying to get???
In this day and age of crapy commercial software, with periodic crashes, lousy support, EULAs, lock-in features (like non-standart data formats), DMCA, and in which decieving, coercing and denying costumer rights has become the standart way of working of most of the industry (and not only IT), i believe each one of us should make and extra effort to reward quality (yes, even non-Open Source quality - people need money in order to eat) and shun the typical stuff that is poured down our throats every day by faceless, emotionless, greedy companies.
Corporations are like economic animals (in more ways than one), and as such, their behaviours and even their survival depends on their environment. Let's do a bit of artificial selection and create an environment where companies that rely on quality products and quality costumer service survive and prosper, while the one that do not starve and die!!!
Does it bother anyone else that a Japanese company is using American laws to bully americans..
I know the Japanese own us, and they certainly own our senators (ie how the DMCA got passed in the first place), but my question is.. is there a stopping point where we say "Hey, this is our country... stop buying our politicians!"
Considering that the box to Deus Ex even tells you how to pronounce the name.
Deus Ex Machina
"What's that? Deuce Ex Macerena?"
But despite Paramount's intolerance, there are a lot of unauthorized usages. Even fan movies!
I believe you have to be the copyright owner of the encrypted data in order to invoke such rights. I would think that would be obvious.
EXACTLY! What you purchase is the LIMITED RIGHT to use something for a SPECIFIC purpose. You don't own the plastic, circuitry or the silicone. All you receive is the permission to enjoy the product as is envisioned by its makers and if you somehow expand on that and use it in ways not considered appropiate then you deserve to be stomped on your head by an army of boot wearing policemen for that implies you were thinking and if I hate one thing it's people that think. I want people that are predictable. I want to be able to push the same buttons on everybody and always get the same results.
The point is simply this:
It cost a lot to make the game.
It cost almost nothing to make the CDs.
So how come we're paying per CD?
No-one's saying that the people who created the game shouldn't be reimbursed, or that they don't deserve a healthy profit.
Hell, if a model can be found where the game is paid for and the medium is freely distributable, it _helps_ the game developers, 'cos they're suddenly forking out a lot less for distribution.