Slashdot Mirror
First Looks at Linux DA PDA
e1en0r writes "My Linux DA PDA finally arrived yesterday. It's a great PDA for under $100. I put up a review of it here. It's very similar to the Palm OS, with a few more interesting features. The most notable being the file manager. You can see where everything is and view all the files in text and hexadecimal mode. It also appears that you can overclock the 16 MHz DragonBall CPU up to 25 MHz. There are some screenshots on their site, which include the CPU Speed application. Unfortunately that application is lacking in documentation." The review is a little thin, but its still cool seeing these in the wild.
Palm IIIxe Hardware Compatible
2 MB Flash Upgradeable
8 MB RAM
Motorola Dragonball CPU
Battery Operated
Color Available - GALAXY GREY
15 Days Technical Support by Email
6 Month Linux DA O/S Software Upgrade
One Year Warranty
DataSync Program Only Available in MS Windows Platform
Includes: Carrying Case, 2 AAA Batteries, PC Sync Cable, CD with PC Sync Program, Quick-Start Manual, Handwriting Guide, Warranty Card, Registration Card
The irony here is while it promotes linux as a pda system, the datasync feature is available for windows only right now.
The palm m505 is so hopelessly overpriced that these things have to potential to sell well. I've been a plam user from the start but I'm looking for an alternative. Let's just hope the usual open source tilt towards completely ignoring any kind of marketing doesn't haunt DA.
Shameless plugs:
I hope it doesn't put off any harmful radiation like the pentium 4.
tcd004
although the OS of this PDA might be linux-based,
the following line on their site:
"6 Month Linux DA O/S Software Upgrade"
shows that it lacks the main feature of linux, which
is to be downloadable and free (beer&speech)
The product page says " 6 Month Linux DA O/S Software Upgrade", but if it's based on free software, I should always be able to download the latest source and install on the handheld, at least for the kernel, which is obviously GPLd.
Alas, this PDA makes the same mistake as all the others. From the sales page:
"DataSync Program Only Available in MS Windows Platform"
It'd be nice to have a PDA running Linux, but if it can't talk to my other computers, it's pointless.
Rats.
A.
Does anyone else find this funny?
It looks like a Palm , only chunkier.
It runs very little software and won't sync.
A linux PDA that doesn't even attempt to sync with anything other than Windows and then fails anyway ?
Seems like a pointless device. Why try to emulate a palm anyway ? If you're going to take them on try to be BETTER.
Seems like a joke device. I wonder if the reviewer would be favourable at all if it wasn't a linux based device ?
I'm a big fan of Linux, but why would I want this instead of kicking a few bucks extra and actually getting a Palm device?
I'm serious here; my Visor does what I want it to, does this solve some problem that existing PDAs don't? It seems like sort of a tough sell, especially when the device has only 15 apps.
Which would be a better buy? The Linux DA goes for $99 and you can get an Agenda VR3 for $119 at Tigerdirect. You have to wait 6-8 weeks for the DA though. The Agenda, right now, has more applications, a faster processor (66Mhz compared to 16-25 for the DA), and more memory but support could be dwindling. As far as pure hacking pleasure goes I'm still tempted to go with the Agenda VR3. Any opinions?
Thank you, drive through.
does this mean if i could maintain a copy i could use it on my palm IIIXe?
"Unfortunately the software that this comes with only works on Windohs"
How clever.
Here's a related article at LinuxDevices.com. It's not a review, but it has links to more information.
Patrick Doyle
I mod down every jackass who puts his moderation policy in his sig. Oh, wait a sec....
Is anyone using the latest Mozilla and noticed the icon in the URL flicking you the bird on elenor.net? That's a nice way to greet your readers.
Yeah, well fu2.
-Russ
Me
Isn't Linux a trademark by Linus Torvalds? Looks like he might have to file a lawsuit of his own there to prevent the Linux trademark from being "diluted".
What bugs me about this is not that some company is using the Linux kernel to build a proprietary PDA, but the fact that they so prominently use the Linux name. This is not a "Linux" PDA in any useful sense: it doesn't run Linux utilities, it thumbs its nose at the open source process, and even its kernel software development appears to take part outside the Linux community.
I also wonder whether the company even still has the right to use the Linux kernel. They failed to make source code available for months (I requested it), even though they were distributing binaries. That was a violation of the GPL, and once you violate it, you lose the right to use the code. Also, the source code that they did finally distribute is a mess, and I have my doubts that it even corresponds to the kernel that they ship, which would constitute another GPL violation.
With a few extra apps that noone needs?
Michael C. Hollinger
Actually acording to an email I just got back from them.. they are actually porting the sync program over to linux. I got now timetable on this but atleast a linux verion is on its way. They also gave me two options when I expressed my disatisfaction with a windows only sync program. They said that I could either wait for the linux version or return it for a full refund. :)
Good points: The price - this is in the price range of many people. However, would the Palm m100 be a better deal because of the wealth of applications available?
Also, that website has a way too small font, and it is a fixed size so I couldn't scale it up in the browser (konqueror). Mozilla will probably fare better as its font resizing even works on sites there the stylesheet has been rude enough to specify a fixed font size instead of a relative font size.
Promotional Photo? A) Why would any self-respecting company use this photo? and B) I feel sorry for whoever this is.
I ordered a Linux DA PDA on Sept. 22 and it finally arrived today (Nov 15). Their website gave me errors when trying to have it shipped to a different address than the billing address, so I had to put the shipping address in the special instructions field. Needless to say it was delivered to my old apartment. Thankfully I thought to go over there and check for it. Aside from the shipping annoyances, I really like this PDA, especially considering that it was under $100.
It's about twice as thick as my Palm Vx and comes with batteries, a data sync cable and a pretty decent case. It looks pretty nice too. There was a lame Linux DA sticker on the case that I peeled off right away, thinking it was just protecting the logo like the cover I peeled off the screen. Heh. Oops. The packaging was nice and it arrived in one piece.
But on to the important details - the PDA itself. I'm very happy with it. It's got a DragonBall EZ 16 MHz processor that you can apparently overclock up to 25 MHz, 8 MB RAM and 2 MB Flash Rom. The physical buttons are pretty much the same as a Palm and there's a backlight and contrast control. It comes with 7 games, 10 applications, and 4 system utilites. A lot of the features are similar to the Palm OS, but it has some cool differences. For one, you can change the keyboard to QWERTY or natural. I also like that you can choose whether or not you want small or large icons. I'm having a little trouble with the handwriting recognition because it's a little different than Palm's. One cool feature is that when you write something it pops up a box showing what you're writing.
My favorite application is the File Manager. It's cool to see where things are, and you can view the files in text and hexadecimal mode. I'm trying to figure out if you can actually do anything with the htdocs directory. It seems strange to have it but with no purpose. I also like the paint application. It's a basic application that lets you draw crude pictures and save them, but it's so fun coloring things in. The games are your basic free games - snake, mine, tetris, etc. Plus there's the standard applications like an Address Book, Expense, Email, Memo, Schedule, Clock, etc. There are some screenshots here.
Unfortunately the software that this comes with only works on Windohs. And it even seems to have problems with that. I'm using Win2k and I'm getting various sync connection errors (COM2 is using by the other program!, Communication error). The strange thing is when I press the sync button, the PC pops up an error and the PDA shows the sync screen but times out. So they're both recognizing the sync request but not connecting. I've tried both serial ports but have had no luck. There is a nice feature that lets me import my Palm addresses and memos. Hopefully I can actually sync them eventually.
Overall I'd say the Palm is easier to use, but if you're looking for a cheap PDA I'd highly recommend this one, assuming that the sync utility will eventually work. It definitely holds its own against the others that I've played with. The lack of software is an issue, however. I haven't found any other applications for it. You can download their development kit, complete with core dump, and try making your own though.
Here are the specs from the official site:
* Manufactured by Linux DA O/S Licensee
* Embedded with Linux DA O/S for PowerPlay III
* Palm IIIxe Hardware Compatible
* 2 MB Flash Upgradeable
* 8 MB RAM
* Motorola Dragonball CPU
* Battery Operated
* Color Available - GALAXY GREY
* 15 Days Technical Support by Email
* 6 Month Linux DA O/S Software Upgrade
* One Year Warranty
* DataSync Program Only Available in MS Windows Platform
* Includes: Carrying Case, 2 AAA Batteries, PC Sync Cable, CD with PC Sync Program, Quick-Start Manual, Handwriting Guide, Warranty Card, Registration Card
Pictures coming soon. Although the pictures on their site are accurate.
There's been a lot of talk aobut how you can't use a Plam to reilably dial a phone. I've read that it was both a speaker limitation and a shortcoming of the dragonball CPU's ability to generate tones. Has anyone had any luck using a dragonball-based PDA for phone-dialing?
1) The compnay does not ofically support rsync. It does NOT appear the the cradle is using TCP/IP for communication.
Haven't tried this thing yet, but do remember getting my paws on an Agenda a while back - it was pretty neat, especially watching it boot up - made you feel right at home. Ate batteries like it was it's job though (which I guess it kinda was)
Anyway, I don't use PDAs since I took my Visor sailing with me - doh! (WON the sucker from Handspring too, easy come, easy go I guess)
sic transit gloria mundi
I was about to order when I saw that. No sale.
Warning: this article may contain humor, sarcasm, parody, and perhaps even irony. Read at your own risk.
Even in my darkest days of true geekdom I was never this bad.
I mean, I know it runs Linux, and it looks nice and all, but how much digital crud do we really want to strap on our bodies anyhow? A certain borg analogy comes to mind...
NOTE: grep -r "humour" > your
It sure seems like the only appeal of this device is that it runs linux. It adds no signifigant breadth of functionality to the handheld genre. The apps they have screenshots of look like standard (and a few substandard) palm os facilities.
I'm not an embedded systems sort of person, so there may be something terribly cool about mushing linux down into little devices, but why not use NetBSD? NetBSD is very portable, and I'd bet my socks there's one that runs on the dragonball. Linux (as far as I know [let's be honest, that isn't very far]) was designed to run on i386, wasn't it?
there's more than one way to do me.
Not to try to out irony the irony_nazi, but I think what is being said is the only way to get the PDA " 'N Sync" is to use windows.
Misery loves mediocraty, perhaps?
If it is not on fire, it is a software problem.
I wonder if the reviewer would be favourable at all if it wasn't a linux based device
Nope. The product wouldn't even get to market. Inferrior products don't go anywhere unless they've got some reason to survive. In this case the company hopes that Linux users will buy it (over Palm, etc.) simply because it runs Linux, not because it has better features.
I did a view source on their webpage...
<meta name="generator" content="Microsoft FrontPage 4.0">
I find it interesting that a company that thinks it is important enough to put linux on a PDA still can't make a web page without Frontpage for Microsoft Windows...
That it's cheap is about the only reason I can see to get this thing. I'll stick with my Palm.
There should be a moratorium on the use of the apostrophe.
Max V.
NeXTMail/MIME Mail welcome
"it uses linux guts instead of palm os guts!"
Wow. Is there _any_ benefit to these things?
I mean sure, linux on the pc instead of windows, it gives you unix stuff - but when your are abstracting the kernel so far from the user by placing a super-friendly pda interface in top of it, who cares what the kernel is?
A linux handheld that can only be synced on windows.... well.. so far.
With Palm offering the Palm OS 4.1 upgrade for $29.95. I've been thinking about buying one of these and just flashing it with the latest palm os. I'm a fan of the old Palm III form factor.
I was wondering also is it compatiable with Palm III accessories. If so this might be a decent way for people with a big investment in old style palm accessories to be able to get a new pda.
Any thoughts.
This is just the current state too. We know that Palm is doing all this in an economically viable way, whereas Linux DA may not be and probably is not. In other words, with Palm the continued support and development is pretty much a sure thing...Linux DA on the other hand.....will likely be forced to fold very shortly.
A nice, inexpensive piece of equipment running an OS that looks like PalmOS but doesn't actually run Palm apps...
I'm a big fan of Linux, but why would I want this instead of kicking a few bucks extra and actually getting a Palm device?
I'm serious here; my Visor does what I want it to, does this solve some problem that existing PDAs don't? It seems like sort of a tough sell, especially when the device has only 15 apps.
"Galaxy grey"!? Since when are galaxies grey? I suppose if you are the sort of guy that wears PDAs and mobile phones in their belt (a bit of the galaxy-coloring is visible around the buttons), things like fashion and colors tend to become a blur.
Opinions stated are mine and do not reflect those of the Illuminati
DataSync Program Only Available in MS Windows Platform
Um, so this "linux pda" requires me to use windows on my real machine. Doesn't that defeat the purpose of having linux on a pda in the first place (ie cater to us geeks on slashdot)? What is the company thinking to release a product with such a benefit-destroying feature. Reminds me of a dilbert strip where Dilbert is asked to add a standby light to a battery operated product.
not_cub
q='echo "q=$s$q$s;s=$b$s;b=$b$b;$q"';s=\';b=\\;echo "q=$s$q$s;s=$b$s;b=$b$b;$q"
I can't say i'm terribly impressed with this thing. Only syncs with Windows, no third-party apps (that'll be fixed in time), and even the Windows sync program is broken.
Not to mention, Palm could probably sue them for ripping off their UI... Other than that the fonts are ugly as fuck and not positioned onscreen properly, it looks exactly like PalmOS.
The one thing i'm curious about though : They claim "Hardware compatibility with Palm IIIxe". Does that mean I could buy one of these devices, get a ROM image of PalmOS 3.5 somewhere and throw it onto this $100 handheld? (Slightly illegal, I know, but I'm just wondering if it's possible)
I am at this moment, alone in my dark, dark room, the only light coming from the monitor screen, I am leaning back in my ergonometric leather chair that I bought at a dot com garage sale for $2.98, and now, my friends, I am imagining a beowulf cluster of these.
Wow, there's a new PDA out! Let's hack it and put Linux on it!
:)
... oh, wait, it already runs Linux. Move on geeks, nothing to hack here
Petru
Making Linux run on a PDA was pritty cool.
It showed how flexable Linux really is AND has the additional benifit of producing improved code for the desktop/server Linux code.
It says if needed an imbeded Linux CAN exist. Linux CAN be stuffed ANYPLACE.
I like my Visor Neo...
Can I get a wireless modem for the Linux PDA? Unlikely... But I can plug a wireless into my Neo..
Mom has a wireless built in her Palm IIV
Can I get a camra for the Linux PDA?
Unlikely... But I can plug one into my Neo
Mom has a Kodak she uses on hers...
How about a GPS? Yeah just about every PDA ever made has a GPS. The ill fated Zoomer had a GPS.. My Neo.. moms Palm... but this? Unlikely..
This comes off like a toy.. and hurts the Linux credability...
I'll stick with my Visor thank you..
I don't actually exist.
I've had my eye on the iPaq H3135. 200MHz StrongARM, 16MB RAM + 16MB ROM. Those specs put the VR3 to shame, and handhelds.org should have all the info on flashing the OS to Linux. Amazon.com is offering them for $150 after rebate.
Note: the status of Linux on the mono iPaq seems to be a little behind the color version, so be sure to check the relevant info on the development site before jumping on the idea.
It baffles me why all these people are saying go buy a palm instead. newsflash: This IS a palm, just one that's not shipped running the PalmOS.
Well, at least that's the theory. I'll be flashing mine when it gets delivered in a week, then I'll let you know for sure..
So for those of you saying buy a palm instead: learn to read.
Well, I didn't make that claim. In fact, I gave the VR3 as an example of what I would consider a true Linux PDA, as opposed to to the "Linux DA".
In fact, I like my VR3 a lot. The only thing it really needs is an MMC expansion slot.
Forgot to turn on the brain again?
One thing I didn't see on the page or any of the follow up comments is about battery life. For such a slow CPU (at least by today's standards), I'd expect a pretty good lifetime. The old Casio Zoomer (c. 1992), a product done with Geoworks and Palm before they started doing their own hardware was slow. Way too slow -- otherwise it probably would have done much better even though it was expensive. But it had a great battery life, something like 100+ hours. Some other products recharge through their sync cradles. What is this one like in that regard?
Finally a PDA with good sense. How else to view core dumps than in hexadecimal?
Nobody seems to mention that their sdk is freely available, including a cross-compiler, all under linux right
here.
Seems like the ideal pda for the linux hacker who want to develop custom apps on a Free platform.
to mail me, first remove the evil spam.
If I collect all 7, do I get super ultra powers and fly around and fight 5 episode long fight scenes!!!!!! That would be so cool....
Do you think that since its Palm IIIxe compatible you could just flash it with the PalmOS?
If so, it can be a cheap memory upgrade for my 2MB Palm III while keeping the old one for someone..
'Cause the only thing that makes a Palm great is all the software and SDKs for it.
% cd /usr/src/linux-2.4.14/arch
% ls
alpha/ cris/ ia64/ mips/ parisc/ s390/ sh/ sparc64/
arm/ i386/ m68k/ mips64/ ppc/ s390x/ sparc/
I placed the order one day later than the author and didn't get an acknowlegement until the next week. I'm still waiting for mine :(
The day I recieved the acknowlegement, I also downloaded the all of the developer stuff.
I figure that if the code DA runs on a Palm III or Palm V, at least SOME of the code that is used with those will be of use with a LinuxDA. As a rough template if nothing else.
And, yes, I am a linux user. The argument the it will only me of interest to linux users is, I think, facicous.
It's only available in the US anyway, so they'll be bust before we find out.
Byeeeee!
It's basically a Palm computer (its probably made in the same factury, on the same line in Taiwan or something), with the Linux OS loaded on instead of Palm OS to save on licensing costs. So they can flog it for under $100.
Some pundits think a good proportion of buyers will just load Palm OS on it (if this as the same one mentioned in an article I read a month ago that was to be released in about a month at a RRP of US$97).
All the hardware is fully Palm OS compatible
If you don't see why simply Linux over Palm is a win, you haven't been reading Slashdot properly - go and do it again, and keep quiet until you've done it.
'Course, this is a loser product for other reasons, explained elsewhere.
They finally sent mine also.
The handwriting recognition has a box that shows the letter as your write it. That's cool, but it's disappearance is timed, so you can easily write too fast and write two lettes at once.
Also, I havn't opened th book yet, but the alphabet seems lowercasish, not grafitti. I think some single stroke alphabet like grafiti will work better and get rid of the need for a timed input window. Does someone know if the source is available in their handwriting?
Also, I need a simple serial terminal for this. It doesn't run Palm or Java apps, so I'm limited to writing my own right now.
I'll bet Palm Computing's Legal team will go after this one. It's a PC-Chips _hardware_ clone of a PalmIII. Flashable too. The pictures seem to imply this device is what the LinuxDA actually is.. http://www.theregister.co.uk/content/2/20102.html
looks to me that they just got linux to run as co-pilot. Reminds me of the Jayz Song
"Got this Chinese chick, had to leave her quick'
Cause she kept bootleggin my shit - man"
if he only knew about linux
"Got this Linux chick, had to leave her quick'
Cause she kept copying my shit - man"
I was sowndering about if the thing even existed, since i ordered one 2 months ago! I thought they took my 89 bux and ran
The Arkie Libertarian
...dressed in Linux. Anyone with the displeasure of having worked with PC-Chips motherboards cringe at the thought of a PC-Chips PDA. Palm Computing legal is gonna take a fit unless LinuxDA's version isn't PalmOS flashable/hackable . This URL to The Register has the relevant links http://www.theregister.co.uk/content/2/20102.html
Woudlnt the palm emu run on a linux on dragonball?
Anybody know if you can get to a shell? I'm always looking for another device to run SETI on (hey, I'm a stats whore). ;-)
Why on earth anyone would release such a thing, with the name "Linux" on it, without disclosing all the technical and programming info, as well as the in-house development stuff is beyond me.
The SDK download wants you to agree to a fairly restrictive license, the tar files have cores in them, the docs are almost useless, and there is no way to backup or restore the unit from linux.
Someone at empowered technologies is a very confused person. Without more hacking info, that is easy to get, this thing is doomed.
Treatment, not tyranny. End the drug war and free our American POWs.
See my user info for links.
Samsing just released their newest Linux PDA... I just read about it on their site and it looks awesome. It has a DragonBallZ 133Mhz processor and 128M ram and 2 USB ports on the side.
Wow. That looks pretty funny out of context.
This comes from a former Linux 'fanatic'. Why is it that Linux always seems to be about duplicating other OS's/tools? It seems like there's never any creativity...
* Checkbook programs that try to duplicate MS Money/Quicken
* Linux trying to duplicate UNIX
* KDE trying to look like Windows
* this handheld copying Palm OS as closely as possible
Is there ever any originality in Linux development?
Until they support wireless with these things it is just like buying another expensive watch. I have a agenda but until it does wireless it just sits on my desk lifeless.
Got Code?
If it actually ran Linux, you could easily port software to it, and that is a big plus for many people.
any commercial linux pda with a pcmcia slot?
Just had to say it.