Hee Hee Hee!! I Dumped my TW stock as soon as that turkey of a merger was announced!!!
I Had already dumped the Techs late in 1999 because I expected them to be bit by the Y2k bug. I Figured that everybody and his brother had upgraded in 1998 and 1999 to avoid the bug, and they wouldn't need another upgrade for 3 to 4 years, wiping the techs out. I sure as Hell wasn't about to trade real assets for something that I expected to dive in value.
The Merger rated AOL as being slightly more valuable than TW. There is no way in Hell that AOL was worth more than a fraction of the value of TW at that time. As to who screwed who, that was a joint screwing. Just how much of it was AOL screwing TW stockholders, and how much of it was TW screwing themselves is debatable, but the TW stockholders did get screwed and they blame AOL for the screwing.
"You consider millions, I repeat, MILLIONS of customers damn few real assets?"
AOL dosen't OWN those people. A Subscriber list can't compare as an asset to TW's Copyrights to Time Magizine, to Warener studios, to Turner Broadcasting. There is no way in Hell that the AOL subscriber list was equal in value to the very real assets that TW held.
AOL has always had an attrition problem, of people leaving because they didn't like the service. There are Millions of former AOL subscribers out there. They were able to paper over this retention problem during the big growth phase of the internet when they signed up new customers faster than they lost old ones, but that phase is over.
AOL juggled the books during the merger to hide that a large part of thier claimed customer base were reciveing AOL for free, either thrugh the inital free offer or through extensions of free service that AOL sales reps gave when people called to cancel after the inital free offer expired. You could get AOL for free for several months just by calling to cancel and a lot of people knew it and took advantage of it by signing up for a new free account as soon as they couldn't get free extensions any more.
You are assuming that the present decline in AOL subscribers will stay at a static 5%. It won't it will increase as low cost dial ups eat at the subscriber list from below, and the cost of Broad Band access falls and eats at the subscriber list from above.
AOL also did some creative bookkeeping to make it look like ad revenues were higher than they actually were.
When that merger happened I was amazed that the TW management was willing to trade stock that represented the very real assets that TW held for overinflated dot.com shares that had a lot of hype and damn few real assets behind them.
All stocks went down after the 90s buble burst in 2000, but if AOL had remained independant it would have sunk like a rock instead of dragging AOL/TW even lower than the general decline. You might also note that the bloodletting included dumping TW people that played key roles in that foolish merger.
None of that affects the key part of my statement that the turn around in how AOL viewed Microsoft came After TW people stagged their revolt and took over management of the AOL holdings.
"Anyone would wonder if Winamp and Netscape were just tools to help them get their way."
To an extent they were always bargining chips, but the real change came when the TW people found out that they got screwed in the merger and won a sucessful fight to take control of the company including the former AOL holdings. The people who are now running the AOL holdings are from outside of the software industry, with no experiance of Microsoft's tactics. They just see it as a choice between an alliance with a company that controls 90% of the desktop computers or with a varity of companies that only control 10%. From that viewpoint going with Microsoft sounds like the smart thing to do.
Society is unnatural. Living in the trees with the apes is natural, and that is where we would be without the few who have the unnatural ability to create. They are the ones who created society and they are the ones who sustain society.
Name ONE case, just one instance when every person, when that group called "society" all woke up with the same idea for a new invention, with the lyrics for a new song, with the same idea for a new novel. They were all the products of indiviuals within the group, not the group as a whole. Name one society, where each and every person has contributed a new invention, a new idea. Evan a society where the majority have risen out of the rit of their eveyday lives and contributed an original idea. Creation is and allways has been the product of the few, not the majority.
society hasn't provided anything, That small minority of indiviuals who are capable of creating are the ones who provided it all
Prove me wrong, go plug your mind into the collective and crank out a new OS, half a dozen hit tunes, and a best selling Novel. Since indiviuals aren't important you ought to be able to do as good a job on these tasks as anyone else.
"You DO NOT own the work you hold copyright on - it is the property of society, whose resources you used to create it."
ROFLMAO
You managed to get that ass backwards. Society is nothing more than a group of indiviuals, and it's a small minority of those indiviuals who are capable of creating anything. If it weren't for that small group in every generation we would still be living in the trees with the apes.
That fact hasn't stopped those who are incapable of creating anything from trying to horn in on the credit and rewards by spouting BS about society (which includes themselves) created it instead of the indiviual.
The Timing on this will work out just fine. By this summer it will be clear that this bill didn't stop spammers from flooding people's inboxes. We will have proof that these measures are ineffictive, and with the Elections approaching it will be easier to put preasure on the Congress Critters for a more effective law.
"...if you were voting for the first guy on the list - who happened to be Bush. (No conspiracy about the design meant to be implied, it just worked out that way..."
It didn't just work out that way, it was required under Floridia Law. The Party that won the last election for Governor gets the number one ballot postion. A Republican won the last Governors's race so a Republican got the top spot on the next race. That WAS a conspiracy, but one by the Dems not the GOP The Dems passed the law when they controlled the state government to give Dems an edge in the next election.
"Paying taxes so the single mom is able to feed her kid, or paying taxes to arrest, try, sentence, and punish the same mom who started prostituting herself to do the same.. and now having the state take on her child as a ward as well?"
Prostution wouldn't be illegal under a Libertarian government so she wouldn't be arrested.
"Paying an agency such as the EPA to investigate and stop environmental contamination, or paying to clean it up later -- well after the company doing it has gone out of business?"
The EPA dosen't stop contamination, it gives companies a right to produce a certain level of contamination of other people's properity leaving them with no legal recourse to recover damages to their properity by the polluter.
"On the other hand, Florida is up for grabs. Remember, when the Supreme Court stopped the recount process after the last Presidential election, Al Gore was slightly ahead, and looked like he would have won the Florida vote."
The Gorebot was never ahead in any recount, finished or unfinished and lost an official recount held by Floridia Newspapers that supported him by a larger margin than the offical totals
"Of course, it wouldn't have been so close if all thousands of black voters (90 percent of whom voted for Gore) hadn't been illegally stripped of their votes by wrongly being labelled convicted felons"
Under a law passed by the Democrats when they controlled the state.
"if the butterfly ballots hadn't have been used"
The ballots were designed by a Democratic Controlled Election board.
"overseas ballots that were clearly not properly filled in time and/or authenticated count in their favour."
That was in accordance with a Federal law passed at a time when Democrats controlled Congress, and the ballots were quite legal.
The Shrub is no Prize, but at least he's not out of touch with reality like the Bush Bashers are.
Are you going to try to claim that the Black Helocopters used by the agents of the New World Order are made of Tin, of Lead? They are made of Aluminum!!! This metal protects the evil agents from being overcome by thier own psychotronic rays.
Do you think that pyramid on top of the Washingtom Monument is made of Lead? No It's made of Pure Aluminium so that it can be used to reflect and focus the psychotronic rays that control the US Government!!
They are allready controling the Computers of people foolish enough to use that OS produced in the Northwestern US. It is a well known carrier of psychotronic rays. These are focused directly from the moniter into your eyes avoiding ANY protections offered by an Aluminum Foil Deflector Beanie. Nothing but mind control can explain Windows users refusal to switch from this inferior OS.
Linux users are somewhat safer since they aren't using a known psychotronic carrying OS, but aren't fully protected unless they install Mindguard http://zapatopi.net/mindguard.html
The New World Order agents are trying to make MindGuard ineffective via a plot to replace the Aluminum in computer chips with non-psychotronicly active copper. Don't fall for this ploy.
From the Aluminum Foil Deflector Beanie site's page on Aluminum Alternitives
"In general, when people say "tin foil" they really mean aluminum foil. But what about tin (Sn)? Does it have the same anti-psychotronic properties as aluminum? Most experts agree that tin does have an effect but opinions are divided as to whether or not it is as good as aluminum. A small, but vocal, contingent even argues that tin is superior, but they are held by most to be the lunatic fringe of Foil Deflector Beanie science. I would advise people wishing to build a Deflector Beanie to stick with aluminum whenever possible since it is a proven technology."
http://zapatopi.net/afdb.html
I Have to suspect that anyone advocating tin over proven alumininium anti-psychotronic technology is secrectly in the pay of SCO, Microsoft, and the Illumanati.
"In the Florida recount case Boies lost what should have been a slam dunk case, demanding that the state perform a recount required by the election laws. Boies lost in this case because he was outmaneuvered by the Republican party lawyers who ran rings arround him."
That wasn't hard to due. I'm not a lawyer but I made posts on Netscape's political board that his partial recount plan would violate the equal protection clause of the 14th, which is the grounds that the Supremes later used to shoot it down.
Boies seems to have more skill at self promotion than at law. This makes him perfect for SCO's purposes.
SCO's openunix is popular with fast food restraunts. Mcdonalds, KFC, Pizzahut and Tacobell all use it. Remember that next time you are hungry, and drop them a line telling them a line expalining why you will be eating elsewhere.
Too bad the dweebs following these studies are chassing a degree in a dying field. There are fewer differances between cultures than there were a 100 years ago, and in another 100 years there will be less than there are today. A World culture is developing and nothing short of banning communications between peoples will stop that process.
Where did I say "disallow"? I simply pointed out that the type of governmrnt that wants to control the culture of it's people is likly to do so in a way that follows it's own agenda.
Maybe the USA should set up a department of cultural preservation. It could ban Non English languages, arrest the owners of Mexican and Chinese restraunts, Censor any media originating outside of the USA for content that is incompatable with American culture, and set up an approval process for any imported goods. That is pretty much what these assorted nations are doing in the name of preserving native cultures.
Some people use thier Mod points as Censor points, attempting to move posts they consider politically incorrect below reader thresholds. They have the same mentality as the governments that are pushing for controls on the internet and cultures.
"Interesting that this should come up on the same day that NPR's Morning Edition (just audio, sorry) reported that the US is blocking an attempt by UNESCO to allow countries to subsidize their national film industries to preserve cultural identity."
What makes you think that these government subsidizes to "preserve culture" wouldn't be used to preserve the governments views on what the culture ought to be? It's just another form of censorship. People find Western culture to be alluring, they are adopting it by thier own free choice. Why should governments interfere with that process?
"Is it worth $129? My first reaction was one of feeling ripped off.. I mean, I just bought this not even a year ago.. shouldn't I get a cheap or even free upgrade?"
How would you feel if you had bought a Mac 6 days before Panther came out? Yes I got my Mac less than a week before the new release, and I'm not the least bit worried about the upgrade, because I wouldn't be using it right away. I Prefer letting others find any major problems and/or security holes. My purchase was timed to avoid Panther. Spending &129 later is cheap compared to risking a major security problem on my network or compramising my data.
Can't pay, or are unwilling to pay? I have been poor in my lifetime, so I know what I'm talking about. Take a drive through a poor neighborhood sometime. Note the number of stores selling alchol. Note the number of Rental shops with steeros and large screen TVs for rent.
The problem isn't a total lack of money in poor neighborhoods, it's fucked up priorities over what to do with limited funds. Robbing me to provide services for these people won't cure that basic problem.
Slashdot Mirror
Hee Hee Hee!! I Dumped my TW stock as soon as that turkey of a merger was announced!!!
I Had already dumped the Techs late in 1999 because I expected them to be bit by the Y2k bug. I Figured that everybody and his brother had upgraded in 1998 and 1999 to avoid the bug, and they wouldn't need another upgrade for 3 to 4 years, wiping the techs out. I sure as Hell wasn't about to trade real assets for something that I expected to dive in value.
"they didn't 'screw' TW in the merger"
The Merger rated AOL as being slightly more valuable than TW. There is no way in Hell that AOL was worth more than a fraction of the value of TW at that time. As to who screwed who, that was a joint screwing. Just how much of it was AOL screwing TW stockholders, and how much of it was TW screwing themselves is debatable, but the TW stockholders did get screwed and they blame AOL for the screwing.
"You consider millions, I repeat, MILLIONS of customers damn few real assets?"
AOL dosen't OWN those people. A Subscriber list can't compare as an asset to TW's Copyrights to Time Magizine, to Warener studios, to Turner Broadcasting. There is no way in Hell that the AOL subscriber list was equal in value to the very real assets that TW held.
AOL has always had an attrition problem, of people leaving because they didn't like the service. There are Millions of former AOL subscribers out there. They were able to paper over this retention problem during the big growth phase of the internet when they signed up new customers faster than they lost old ones, but that phase is over.
AOL juggled the books during the merger to hide that a large part of thier claimed customer base were reciveing AOL for free, either thrugh the inital free offer or through extensions of free service that AOL sales reps gave when people called to cancel after the inital free offer expired. You could get AOL for free for several months just by calling to cancel and a lot of people knew it and took advantage of it by signing up for a new free account as soon as they couldn't get free extensions any more.
You are assuming that the present decline in AOL subscribers will stay at a static 5%. It won't it will increase as low cost dial ups eat at the subscriber list from below, and the cost of Broad Band access falls and eats at the subscriber list from above.
AOL also did some creative bookkeeping to make it look like ad revenues were higher than they actually were.
When that merger happened I was amazed that the TW management was willing to trade stock that represented the very real assets that TW held for overinflated dot.com shares that had a lot of hype and damn few real assets behind them.
All stocks went down after the 90s buble burst in 2000, but if AOL had remained independant it would have sunk like a rock instead of dragging AOL/TW even lower than the general decline. You might also note that the bloodletting included dumping TW people that played key roles in that foolish merger.
None of that affects the key part of my statement that the turn around in how AOL viewed Microsoft came After TW people stagged their revolt and took over management of the AOL holdings.
"Anyone would wonder if Winamp and Netscape were just tools to help them get their way."
To an extent they were always bargining chips, but the real change came when the TW people found out that they got screwed in the merger and won a sucessful fight to take control of the company including the former AOL holdings. The people who are now running the AOL holdings are from outside of the software industry, with no experiance of Microsoft's tactics. They just see it as a choice between an alliance with a company that controls 90% of the desktop computers or with a varity of companies that only control 10%. From that viewpoint going with Microsoft sounds like the smart thing to do.
Society is unnatural. Living in the trees with the apes is natural, and that is where we would be without the few who have the unnatural ability to create. They are the ones who created society and they are the ones who sustain society.
Indiviuals buy CDs and Novels based on their indiviual apprasial of it's worth.
They are aware of what you evade, that some people's ideas are better than others.
Name ONE case, just one instance when every person, when that group called "society" all woke up with the same idea for a new invention, with the lyrics for a new song, with the same idea for a new novel. They were all the products of indiviuals within the group, not the group as a whole. Name one society, where each and every person has contributed a new invention, a new idea. Evan a society where the majority have risen out of the rit of their eveyday lives and contributed an original idea. Creation is and allways has been the product of the few, not the majority.
society hasn't provided anything, That small minority of indiviuals who are capable of creating are the ones who provided it all
Prove me wrong, go plug your mind into the collective and crank out a new OS, half a dozen hit tunes, and a best selling Novel. Since indiviuals aren't important you ought to be able to do as good a job on these tasks as anyone else.
"You DO NOT own the work you hold copyright on - it is the property of society, whose resources you used to create it."
ROFLMAO
You managed to get that ass backwards. Society is nothing more than a group of indiviuals, and it's a small minority of those indiviuals who are capable of creating anything. If it weren't for that small group in every generation we would still be living in the trees with the apes.
That fact hasn't stopped those who are incapable of creating anything from trying to horn in on the credit and rewards by spouting BS about society (which includes themselves) created it instead of the indiviual.
The Timing on this will work out just fine. By this summer it will be clear that this bill didn't stop spammers from flooding people's inboxes. We will have proof that these measures are ineffictive, and with the Elections approaching it will be easier to put preasure on the Congress Critters for a more effective law.
"...if you were voting for the first guy on the list - who happened to be Bush. (No conspiracy about the design meant to be implied, it just worked out that way..."
It didn't just work out that way, it was required under Floridia Law. The Party that won the last election for Governor gets the number one ballot postion. A Republican won the last Governors's race so a Republican got the top spot on the next race. That WAS a conspiracy, but one by the Dems not the GOP The Dems passed the law when they controlled the state government to give Dems an edge in the next election.
You can smoke tobacco in a bong, but that dosen't mean that most bong owners are smoking tobacco.
"Paying taxes so the single mom is able to feed her kid, or paying taxes to arrest, try, sentence, and punish the same mom who started prostituting herself to do the same.. and now having the state take on her child as a ward as well?"
Prostution wouldn't be illegal under a Libertarian government so she wouldn't be arrested.
"Paying an agency such as the EPA to investigate and stop environmental contamination, or paying to clean it up later -- well after the company doing it has gone out of business?"
The EPA dosen't stop contamination, it gives companies a right to produce a certain level of contamination of other people's properity leaving them with no legal recourse to recover damages to their properity by the polluter.
"On the other hand, Florida is up for grabs. Remember, when the Supreme Court stopped the recount process after the last Presidential election, Al Gore was slightly ahead, and looked like he would have won the Florida vote."
The Gorebot was never ahead in any recount, finished or unfinished and lost an official recount held by Floridia Newspapers that supported him by a larger margin than the offical totals
"Of course, it wouldn't have been so close if all thousands of black voters (90 percent of whom voted for Gore) hadn't been illegally stripped of their votes by wrongly being labelled convicted felons"
Under a law passed by the Democrats when they controlled the state.
"if the butterfly ballots hadn't have been used"
The ballots were designed by a Democratic Controlled Election board.
"overseas ballots that were clearly not properly filled in time and/or authenticated count in their favour."
That was in accordance with a Federal law passed at a time when Democrats controlled Congress, and the ballots were quite legal.
The Shrub is no Prize, but at least he's not out of touch with reality like the Bush Bashers are.
Bah!
Are you going to try to claim that the Black Helocopters used by the agents of the New World Order are made of Tin, of Lead? They are made of Aluminum!!! This metal protects the evil agents from being overcome by thier own psychotronic rays.
Do you think that pyramid on top of the Washingtom Monument is made of Lead? No It's made of Pure Aluminium so that it can be used to reflect and focus the psychotronic rays that control the US Government!!
They are allready controling the Computers of people foolish enough to use that OS produced in the Northwestern US. It is a well known carrier of psychotronic rays. These are focused directly from the moniter into your eyes avoiding ANY protections offered by an Aluminum Foil Deflector Beanie. Nothing but mind control can explain Windows users refusal to switch from this inferior OS.
Linux users are somewhat safer since they aren't using a known psychotronic carrying OS, but aren't fully protected unless they install Mindguard http://zapatopi.net/mindguard.html
The New World Order agents are trying to make MindGuard ineffective via a plot to replace the Aluminum in computer chips with non-psychotronicly active copper. Don't fall for this ploy.
Hah!!
Aluminium Foil is the prefered material!
From the Aluminum Foil Deflector Beanie site's page on Aluminum Alternitives
"In general, when people say "tin foil" they really mean aluminum foil. But what about tin (Sn)? Does it have the same anti-psychotronic properties as aluminum? Most experts agree that tin does have an effect but opinions are divided as to whether or not it is as good as aluminum. A small, but vocal, contingent even argues that tin is superior, but they are held by most to be the lunatic fringe of Foil Deflector Beanie science. I would advise people wishing to build a Deflector Beanie to stick with aluminum whenever possible since it is a proven technology."
http://zapatopi.net/afdb.html
I Have to suspect that anyone advocating tin over proven alumininium anti-psychotronic technology is secrectly in the pay of SCO, Microsoft, and the Illumanati.
"In the Florida recount case Boies lost what should have been a slam dunk case, demanding that the state perform a recount required by the election laws. Boies lost in this case because he was outmaneuvered by the Republican party lawyers who ran rings arround him."
That wasn't hard to due. I'm not a lawyer but I made posts on Netscape's political board that his partial recount plan would violate the equal protection clause of the 14th, which is the grounds that the Supremes later used to shoot it down.
Boies seems to have more skill at self promotion than at law. This makes him perfect for SCO's purposes.
SCO's openunix is popular with fast food restraunts. Mcdonalds, KFC, Pizzahut and Tacobell all use it. Remember that next time you are hungry, and drop them a line telling them a line expalining why you will be eating elsewhere.
2 0N WBZCD
http://linuxtoday.com/it_management/20010727005
Too bad the dweebs following these studies are chassing a degree in a dying field. There are fewer differances between cultures than there were a 100 years ago, and in another 100 years there will be less than there are today. A World culture is developing and nothing short of banning communications between peoples will stop that process.
Where did I say "disallow"? I simply pointed out that the type of governmrnt that wants to control the culture of it's people is likly to do so in a way that follows it's own agenda.
Maybe the USA should set up a department of cultural preservation. It could ban Non English languages, arrest the owners of Mexican and Chinese restraunts, Censor any media originating outside of the USA for content that is incompatable with American culture, and set up an approval process for any imported goods. That is pretty much what these assorted nations are doing in the name of preserving native cultures.
Some people use thier Mod points as Censor points, attempting to move posts they consider politically incorrect below reader thresholds. They have the same mentality as the governments that are pushing for controls on the internet and cultures.
"Interesting that this should come up on the same day that NPR's Morning Edition (just audio, sorry) reported that the US is blocking an attempt by UNESCO to allow countries to subsidize their national film industries to preserve cultural identity."
What makes you think that these government subsidizes to "preserve culture" wouldn't be used to preserve the governments views on what the culture ought to be? It's just another form of censorship. People find Western culture to be alluring, they are adopting it by thier own free choice. Why should governments interfere with that process?
"Is it worth $129? My first reaction was one of feeling ripped off.. I mean, I just bought this not even a year ago.. shouldn't I get a cheap or even free upgrade?"
How would you feel if you had bought a Mac 6 days before Panther came out? Yes I got my Mac less than a week before the new release, and I'm not the least bit worried about the upgrade, because I wouldn't be using it right away. I Prefer letting others find any major problems and/or security holes. My purchase was timed to avoid Panther. Spending &129 later is cheap compared to risking a major security problem on my network or compramising my data.
Can't pay, or are unwilling to pay? I have been poor in my lifetime, so I know what I'm talking about. Take a drive through a poor neighborhood sometime. Note the number of stores selling alchol. Note the number of Rental shops with steeros and large screen TVs for rent.
The problem isn't a total lack of money in poor neighborhoods, it's fucked up priorities over what to do with limited funds. Robbing me to provide services for these people won't cure that basic problem.