It's an open question. It doesn't seem likely that MS would buck heads with the entertainment industry, especially when they're bending over backwards to support DRM in Vista. I guess we'll just have to wait for some official clarification. --M
VGA is analog output with a separate sync signal, while component is basically RGB with sync on green. So it's not surprising that it would be easy to support both component and VGA. Supporting digital DVIw/HDCP is another matter entirely. As I pointed out to drinkypoo in a prior reply, the Wikipedia Xbox entry makes no mention of DVI support. Whether it is accurate is another matter entirely. Seems like an open question well worth answering...
The always canonical and true Wikipedia has an entry on the XBox 360 which makes no mention of digital DVI support. See the "AV Connection" section. Are you disputing the veracity of Wikipedia?!?!
I'm confused.The XBox 360 only outputs component for HD. Either this HD-DVD add-on outputs HDMI (or DVI/HDCP) on its own, or Microsoft is planning a DRM war with the media companies. What's going on?
Interesting. I knew the maximum data transfer rate (though I thought it topped out ~9Mbits/sec), but didn't know the newer codecs could actually stream HD in such a tiny pipe. Guess it makes sense if MPEG2 streams in 19Mbits/sec though. Thanks for the reply BTW.
A dual layered disc may have enough storage space, but are you sure that DVD player would have the bandwidth from laser to data bus to pump an MPEG4 stream in real time? --M
The kind that on launch looked at that big screen and went,"ohhhh... shiny new toy... must have shiny new toy" with eyes glazed over. Never mind it took nine months to deliver more than a few games worth owning... *cough!*
Indiana, ya know what? You can bite my fleshy white ass. I just bought gta: Liberty City Stories for psp and am enjoying every fucking sicko minute of it. Woohoo, there goes another pedestrian! *smush!*
"[...]but in fact the *only* ethically sound opinion that we stop all animal tests immediately and only rely on volunteers for testing."
Uhhhh, this seems like a *really* *bad* *idea* to me. You do realize that most new treatments and drugs go through a series of dose efficacy and safety trials on animals prior to testing on people for good reason. I mean, isn't it a good idea to know beforehand what dose per/kg weight will likely kill before asking a person to try it out? It may not be pretty, but animal trials save lives. IMO, killing a few mice before testing on people is a *good* *thing*. --M
"Sony is betting that the Blu-Ray drive in the PS3 will inspire a round of media purchasing, much like what people did with DVDs when that format came out."
Oh yeah, that's a given. Although a good counter argument to that marketing plan is that in 2000 everyone had a television to play DVDs with, where as today only a small segment of the population owns an HDTV. Sony's potential market with Blu-Ray in the PS3 is much smaller than the prior situation with DVD support in the PS2.
But still, I argue that Sony is going with unproven technology that will drive up manufacturing costs compared to the 360. And I think MS will almost certainly use price-war tactics to their advantage this time. Between Cell and Blu-Ray, I think Sony may have bit off more than they can chew...
"[...]"Sony can because they know that the 360 will not be able to compete if the PS3 has multiples of storage capacity built in."
I'm not sure I follow... Why should the extra capacity of Blu-Ray in the PS3 matter much over the standard DVD drive in the 360? We're talking about 25GB vs 8GB... how many games do you expect to consume over 8GB of space? I think Sony is taking a pretty serious risk with using new and unproven technology in the PS3 like this. Add in that it is almost certainly more expensive than the DVD playing in the 360, and you have Sony taking a larger loss per unit than MS. Unless they price it above the 360, in which case the 360 will win by default. *shrug*
Yeah. God of War is next on my list to buy. It's seriously cool, though if forced to make a choice I'd take RE4 instead. But it's definitely worth getting. -M
The Sub Logic flight simulator was much better on a TRS-80 than that M$ crap version on a PC. And with 128x48 b/w graphic. Take that IBM! Take that M$! BAH!
Yeah! Try placing the cat's front paws in your lap while using its tail as a joystick. That really ups the realism of gameplay. Dual-Shock controllers seem real? Humph!
Our local PBS station bit starves their HD by adding a second SD channel on the same frequency range. It seriously sucks. I'm a fan of Nature and Frontline - but the bit starving makes these programs unwatchable in HD. Pure pixelization on the slightest camera movement. *sigh* --M
Could you speak more to performance issues when dealing with code/data that exceeds the 256K SPU local store? It looks to me like fetches from RAM are a real bottleneck, so if you want performance you need to keep code/data within each SPU. If you can chain a series of algorithms and move data down the chain this is a win. But if you need to manipulate a huge data block you're SOL. I can see the Cell being a huge win for say a series of Monte Carlo sims running in each SPU, but am it looks like a lose once you exceed local store. But you seem to be saying that idle fetch cycles aren't so bad. Would love to get an some input on this issue from someone actually coding the chip. (already posted a comment to this effect elsewhere, but you seem to be one of the few with real world experience posting here) Thanks a bunch! --M
...that 256KB local store for each SPU looks like a pretty severe bottleneck. You'll have to limit your execution code and data to this window, otherwise you'll take a severe penalty on fetch to main memory. The PPU isn't much to brag about in comparison to a modern G4 or G5, so your task damn well better make use of those SPUs or performance will seriously suck in comparison to a modern CPU. So, it looks to me like this thing will be amazing for lots of small, jobs like several tiny monte carlo sims each running in an SPU. But for real data analysis, it's going to depend on the project requirements - which could easily demand more than 256KB for local store. Then you're SOL....
Would love to read some folks post on how they plan to use the broadband interconnect to chain code and data for solving larger problems, and what limitations they see in this arch. --M
Slashdot Mirror
It's an open question. It doesn't seem likely that MS would buck heads with the entertainment industry, especially when they're bending over backwards to support DRM in Vista. I guess we'll just have to wait for some official clarification. --M
VGA is analog output with a separate sync signal, while component is basically RGB with sync on green. So it's not surprising that it would be easy to support both component and VGA. Supporting digital DVIw/HDCP is another matter entirely. As I pointed out to drinkypoo in a prior reply, the Wikipedia Xbox entry makes no mention of DVI support. Whether it is accurate is another matter entirely. Seems like an open question well worth answering...
Oh God I hate that show. And while Claudia Black is hot there's no amount of her naked hugging a dance pole that could get me to watch it.
...about the resurrection of Farscape and Firefly for an "F" trifecta!!!
The always canonical and true Wikipedia has an entry on the XBox 360 which makes no mention of digital DVI support. See the "AV Connection" section. Are you disputing the veracity of Wikipedia?!?!
I'm confused.The XBox 360 only outputs component for HD. Either this HD-DVD add-on outputs HDMI (or DVI/HDCP) on its own, or Microsoft is planning a DRM war with the media companies. What's going on?
Interesting. I knew the maximum data transfer rate (though I thought it topped out ~9Mbits/sec), but didn't know the newer codecs could actually stream HD in such a tiny pipe. Guess it makes sense if MPEG2 streams in 19Mbits/sec though. Thanks for the reply BTW.
A dual layered disc may have enough storage space, but are you sure that DVD player would have the bandwidth from laser to data bus to pump an MPEG4 stream in real time? --M
The kind that on launch looked at that big screen and went,"ohhhh... shiny new toy... must have shiny new toy" with eyes glazed over. Never mind it took nine months to deliver more than a few games worth owning... *cough!*
Indiana, ya know what? You can bite my fleshy white ass. I just bought gta: Liberty City Stories for psp and am enjoying every fucking sicko minute of it. Woohoo, there goes another pedestrian! *smush!*
Cripes, I hate multiple choice tests. Why do you have to make it so hard?
"[...](try not to get mugged on the way)[...]"
:)
'Cause those Apple Store clerks sure are dangerous!!!
ooooooooo
"[...]but in fact the *only* ethically sound opinion that we stop all animal tests immediately and only rely on volunteers for testing."
Uhhhh, this seems like a *really* *bad* *idea* to me. You do realize that most new treatments and drugs go through a series of dose efficacy and safety trials on animals prior to testing on people for good reason. I mean, isn't it a good idea to know beforehand what dose per/kg weight will likely kill before asking a person to try it out? It may not be pretty, but animal trials save lives. IMO, killing a few mice before testing on people is a *good* *thing*. --M
"Sony is betting that the Blu-Ray drive in the PS3 will inspire a round of media purchasing, much like what people did with DVDs when that format came out."
Oh yeah, that's a given. Although a good counter argument to that marketing plan is that in 2000 everyone had a television to play DVDs with, where as today only a small segment of the population owns an HDTV. Sony's potential market with Blu-Ray in the PS3 is much smaller than the prior situation with DVD support in the PS2.
But still, I argue that Sony is going with unproven technology that will drive up manufacturing costs compared to the 360. And I think MS will almost certainly use price-war tactics to their advantage this time. Between Cell and Blu-Ray, I think Sony may have bit off more than they can chew...
"So, imagine this - Sony ships the PS3 with Blu-Ray. A drive that doesn't have the ratified DRM bullshit."
This seems a highly unlikely outcome... just say'n!
"[...]"Sony can because they know that the 360 will not be able to compete if the PS3 has multiples of storage capacity built in."
I'm not sure I follow... Why should the extra capacity of Blu-Ray in the PS3 matter much over the standard DVD drive in the 360? We're talking about 25GB vs 8GB... how many games do you expect to consume over 8GB of space? I think Sony is taking a pretty serious risk with using new and unproven technology in the PS3 like this. Add in that it is almost certainly more expensive than the DVD playing in the 360, and you have Sony taking a larger loss per unit than MS. Unless they price it above the 360, in which case the 360 will win by default. *shrug*
Yeah. God of War is next on my list to buy. It's seriously cool, though if forced to make a choice I'd take RE4 instead. But it's definitely worth getting. -M
Best damn game of the year. And an amazing port to the PS2 - who'd of thunk that old PS2 could perform so well? --M
Try questioning the slashdot community. They're sure to offer up objective advice on the KDE vs. Gnome debate!
*cough!*
The Sub Logic flight simulator was much better on a TRS-80 than that M$ crap version on a PC. And with 128x48 b/w graphic. Take that IBM! Take that M$! BAH!
ahhhh Big Five Software, I miss ya....
Yeah! Try placing the cat's front paws in your lap while using its tail as a joystick. That really ups the realism of gameplay. Dual-Shock controllers seem real? Humph!
Is anyone porting Civ 4 for the Mac? Would love to know if/when I can buy this title for my machine. --M
Our local PBS station bit starves their HD by adding a second SD channel on the same frequency range. It seriously sucks. I'm a fan of Nature and Frontline - but the bit starving makes these programs unwatchable in HD. Pure pixelization on the slightest camera movement. *sigh* --M
Hi.
Could you speak more to performance issues when dealing with code/data that exceeds the 256K SPU local store? It looks to me like fetches from RAM are a real bottleneck, so if you want performance you need to keep code/data within each SPU. If you can chain a series of algorithms and move data down the chain this is a win. But if you need to manipulate a huge data block you're SOL. I can see the Cell being a huge win for say a series of Monte Carlo sims running in each SPU, but am it looks like a lose once you exceed local store. But you seem to be saying that idle fetch cycles aren't so bad. Would love to get an some input on this issue from someone actually coding the chip. (already posted a comment to this effect elsewhere, but you seem to be one of the few with real world experience posting here) Thanks a bunch! --M
...that 256KB local store for each SPU looks like a pretty severe bottleneck. You'll have to limit your execution code and data to this window, otherwise you'll take a severe penalty on fetch to main memory. The PPU isn't much to brag about in comparison to a modern G4 or G5, so your task damn well better make use of those SPUs or performance will seriously suck in comparison to a modern CPU. So, it looks to me like this thing will be amazing for lots of small, jobs like several tiny monte carlo sims each running in an SPU. But for real data analysis, it's going to depend on the project requirements - which could easily demand more than 256KB for local store. Then you're SOL....
Would love to read some folks post on how they plan to use the broadband interconnect to chain code and data for solving larger problems, and what limitations they see in this arch. --M