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Indiana Tries to Pass Game Law Again
phaedo00 writes "Ars Technica has posted their take on Indiana's newest attempt at passing a game law that seeks to restrict the sale of violent video games. This, despite that fact that similar legislation has a track record of failing in every state it has been proposed in. From the article: 'The state capitol, Indianapolis, was one of the first cities in the nation to try and strike out at violent video games, first going after arcades and other entertainment vendors back in 2000. The quest ended up where they all do: in front of a judge, and left for dead. Now that California, Illinois, and Michigan have all suffered astounding defeats in their attempts to address PC and console game sales, Indiana wants to join the ranks of the failures.'"
Worst. Country. Ever.
next up, all women have to wear a veil and cannot go out in the day
When i frist read the artical i though it was "India" and i couldn't figure out why they where refrencing US court stuff.. now i get it "Indiana"... yea.. i can't wait for it to fail.. slowly every state will do this and then mabey just mabey they will sit back and realize.. humm mabey the parents need to watch what their kids are doing.. it isn't the governments job to raise kids.. it is the parents..
but i could be wrong.. becuse common sence never seems to make it to the people in government
'...if only "Jumping to a Conclusion" was an event in the Olympics.'
It's a very good thing that the United States has a system of judicial review, wherein legislative folly can be overturned by courts. HOWEVER, there's a downside. Legislators know that they can pass anything they want, since their mistakes are subject to being overturned anyway. This lets them legislate recklessly. It's a free pass to allow them to pander to the religious right, for instance, by passing laws that will sound good to the party "base", and getting a double benefit by being able to rail against "activist judges" who are predictably bound by law and precedent.
Today are we just going to post all the ARSTechnica.com articles?
-1 Redundant
for Indiana. Wait, I am from Indiana!
Indiana, ya know what? You can bite my fleshy white ass. I just bought gta: Liberty City Stories for psp and am enjoying every fucking sicko minute of it. Woohoo, there goes another pedestrian! *smush!*
You can't outrun them. You can't destroy them. If you damage them, the essence of what they are remains -- they regenerate and keep coming... eventually you will weaken -- your reserves will be gone... they are relentless.
Simple answer: If someone passes a law that is later determined to be unconstitutional, everyone who voted for that law tried to do something illegal. So send the 50%+ of both the congress and senate to a federal pound-me-in-the-ass-prison and things should straighten out real quick.
Pandering to their "base" is their job. If they didn't represent their constituents, they wouldn't have a job any more. Judicial review exists as a system of checks so ensure the majority does not violate the rights of the minority.
But I do agree with you, it would be nice if legislators could be impeached for introducing laws that violate people's rights.
That guy should stick to recovering ancient artifacts and stuff and leave law making to the experts.
look! ive play all teh quake and gta gamez and im not stupider than any1 else i kno... and if u belive it amkes ppl crazy or sumthin i just hav 1 thing to say u... im gonna fucking eat ur children!! yea u heard me right... im gonna do that and then eat ur fuckin ears like mike tyson and kill hookers like they do in gta... omg thats awesome lol dont u think
so u fuckin losers get a life video gamez dont affect u!!!
Beware: In C++, your friends can see your privates!
This, despite that fact that similar legislation has a track record of failing in every state it has been proposed in.
This will certainly get modded into oblivion. But the fact that gay marraige laws and gay marraige amendents were defeated in all 11 states which had them on the 2004 ballot has not stopped people from trying to get those laws passed. Everyone has something near and dear to his (or her) heart that he (or she) would really like to see change.
This law would pass at just the time that porn is made illegal, which I think we realize will be never.
But I've always had a more direct question: Why does anyone even try to pass such laws? What problem does it prevent?
I don't get it.
I seriously would like NYC to secede from the country. Then we can ban visas from all red states. Can't stand those disgusting, backwards idiots.
-- You see, there would be these conclusions that you could jump to
Legislating While Intoxicated should be a major offence, but just try getting that law passed!
Incompetent implimentation in the past doesn't mean that game rating is a bad idea, just that it needs a national censorship regime to clearly impliment a standard that can be applied across all states.
Kids sometimes fail to see the difference between reality and fiction. I shudder at the number of WAR type video games and the relentless drive for military enrollment.
they should pass a law instead that requires all teenage boys to purchase and play at least one version of "Leisure Suit Larry". i know that game has helped me immensely.
I'd like to see Legislators prorate taxes for Gay couples. If they can't enjoy the same rights as a heterosexual married couple, don't charge them as much in taxes to offset the financial burden of not being able to get married.
They should sue Indiana for wasting their tax dollars on a proven failure in legislation. It is a tremedous waste of tax dollars and it has been shown to fail on constitutional grounds over and over again. Why then do they keep trying it? To me it demonstrates legislators' ineptitude and shows waste.
Miserable Failure still links to Bush. I guess there haven't been enough states trying to ban violent video games yet.
Quoth the replyee: Pandering to their "base" is their job.
No, representing their constituents is a politician's job. Their party base (which I assume is the "base" you refer to) represents only a tiny portion of said constituents.
So by pandering to their "base", they are NOT doing their jobs, they are serving the interests of a very small minority. Ergo, in this case, judicial review serves to protect the interests of the MAJORITY. The special interest groups don't like that, because then they don't get what they want. So they whine and moan about the "activist judges".
I could go on, but this s*** irritates me, and I don't like being irritated.
Then why not get rid of the drinking age laws? Parents can watch their kids to make sure they don't drink.
There is a HUGE difference between a state saying "No sales to those under 18" and a state saying "No sales". As long as those over 18 can buy it, it should be legal.
Some places won't sell R movie tickets to those under 18, without a parent there. How is a game different?
The RIAA that is suing grandmothers is the same type of lobby that wants these games sold. The big corporations want to sell you these games at 50 bucks a pop. And since they don't innovate, they turn up the shock value. At some point, it is going to twist young 9 and 10 year old minds.
I learned my ABC's watching television! I learned science watching Voltron.
If a law like this were to pass, the state would be hurt in the bank account for it. Pair that with the fact that you arent protecting kids from these games, you are only forcing them to get them through other means.
The state will lose a decent amount just from sales tax from these games and all the while kids are still buying the games online and givin money to out of state companies.
Nothing really helps these motions along, the more you look at it, the more you laugh at the proposition.
Invexi - a Phoenix, AZ based web design and web development company.
What violent games did Hitler play? What awesome game did Ghandi play? What's in Kim Jong ils PS2 right now you think?
Why would you trust a testimonial when choosing hosting?
Military enrollment is down.
Kinda punches a hole in that argument, doesn't it?
What is the big deal here? Is Indiana a liberal or conservative state also?? (no flaming please, I just want to know)
That if parents were doing their jobs and paying attention to what their children are buying and playing, legislators wouldn't feel that these laws are necessary.
But then reality sets in, and one realizes that legislators would attempt to pass these laws regardless of how vigilant parents are.
I am an Army of 1 in 10
I guess violent video games have become the new porn. I recall that years ago it seemed that someone in Indiana was always proposing or passing laws to restrict the sale of pornography. These laws were regularly struck down as unconstitutional just as the laws restricting violent video game sales have been. Oh well, I guess porn is just out of style!
To the making of books there is no end, so let's get started
and I haven't heard a single word about this before now. Since I'm here, I feel qualified to say no one cares.
Bad puns gave me bad karma. =(
Sounds like you dont have kids yourself.
Kids WILL do things behind your back that are bad for them. Even when they are taught its wrong. Its part of being a kid.
Having a law that protects a *child* from *adult* material isnt a bad thing.
---- Booth was a patriot ----
ok, I'll bite.
well first of all if you don't "Give a Shit" then why did you bother posting in the first place? Why waste the time, effort, energy, and money on something you don't care about?
Second, if the big circle represents the universe, the dot in the middle is not you.
Third, learn to see beyond what is in front of your face. If you are over 18 as you claim you should know well that laws rarely only apply to what they are written about And are used as precedents for other things. This law could turn out to be the very law that is use as the deathblow to free speech, and brings about regulations not only to video games, but all forms of communications including, but not limited to your "I don't give a shit" comments on SlashDot.
So the moral of this story is even things you do not think have any effect on you, may in fact do. S.E.Ps(please see you hopefully well read More Than Complete Hitchhiker's Guide for a definition of S.E.P.) are visible out of the corner of your eye, and certainly not observable enough for you to make a slashdot posting. So therefore you should care, and should greatly as this not Someone Else's Problem, but everyone problem, an last time i check you are part of the everyone (even though your dues are bit behind, we'll be sending Rock-o over to collect, I'd advise you to lock up the liquor as he's a mean drunk, but i digress)
I hope that makes everything clear as mud for ya.
They can be impeached; they're violating their oath to the Federal Constitution, and often to their respective State Constitution as well.
The problem is, impeachment is done by the legislature. They're not going to pass a law and then vote themselves out of office for passing the law.
You could always spank the kids, oh wait thats against the law.
Spoil the child until their 15, then use the death penalty. What a fucked up country.
"Pandering to their "base" is their job. If they didn't represent their constituents, they wouldn't have a job any more."
Not really. Why pander to voters when you can instead choose who votes for you? The joys of gerrymandering!
What you're saying is very true. But it is also true that legislators from left-wing areas do the exact same thing.
The laws that the lefties try to pass that violate our gun rights get struck down just as readily as the right-wing laws that violate our 1st amendment rights, and often by the same judges.
Lee
Muslim community leaders warn of backlash from tomorrow morning's terrorist attack.
Pandering to their "base" is their job.
I wish they pandered to thier base, but in reality its special interest groups and lobbiests with money to burn.
you should care because the general idea is to require ID be shown before buying games.
The point of this is to make it the retailers fault when someone less than 18yrs old buys a Mature game.
Once there is a law that is being broken, you have a reason to sue. This will be much easier to pursue in court than the 'video games made my kid do it' tactic, which has repeatedly failed.
The law will undoubtedly have some language (not necessarily based on any scietific evidence) that the reason for requiring ID is that video games cause kids to kill people and/or torture small animals.
The other angle is that the legislation wants to require Mature games be treated like Adult-Only material, in which case major retailers (WalMart) might stop carrying the stuff rather than deal with the extra hassle.
It's really a stupid law, as described by Ars, and will not survive a challenge in court.
why do I give a shit if EA can't peddle its warez to minors? Can someone explain why I should care or this is this an issue only teenagers and the people who stand to loose money care about?
For the same reason thet ACLU cares about the rights of the KKK, presumably. Presumably they aren't interested in lynching people (they are stereotypically a buncha peace-loving hippies afterall), but they are interested in preventing the establishment of legal precedent to restrict the rights of a minority group because that minority has opinions that differ from the majority.
What if, by some "heaven" sent miracle, the law survives judicial review? There will be legislators nation-wide that will snap up the opportunity to win the votes of parents who want to worry a little less about their kids; and don't think they won't eye (successfully or not) other commercially consumed art (if today's box office bombs can be called such a thing)-you might have to give back your thirty silver in taxes for the states' legal fees.
Of course by now, videogame makers, unable to make as much of a profit on games that portray (nebulously defined) violent and sexual themes, will invest themselves elsewhere. So it's not like you'd be able to spend it on such games if you were so inclined.
Far be it from me to instruct you guys - as Americans - on the use of American English, for I am a Brit and as such there are sure to be others better qualified to make the observation I am about to make, but in the absence of such, I humbly submit as follows:
It's "capital", not "capitol". Go. Check now. Go on. I am fortunate enough to have a copy of the Oxford American Dictionary only a keypress away, which defines "capitol", or rather "Capitol" as:
Thus the usage in the submitter's blurb - "the state capitol, Indianapolis" - is incorrect, as, unless I am very much mistaken, the building implied by the term "capitol" is not named "Indianapolis". I presume the submitter intended the wording "state capital", and only namedropped Indianapolis after a comma for the benefit of international readers like myself who, unlike Americans, are sometimes unfamiliar with certain of the state capitals. Otherwise, if "capitol" was intended, might I suggest "the state capitol, (in|located in|situated in) Indianapolis". Incidentally, it is worth noting that the word "capitol" does not really exist in British English.
:)
The British are wont to decry the ill effect America has had on the English language. At least try to prove them wrong in matters concerning your own coinages. This is the second time this has happened this week, if memory serves!
iqu
(N.B. The tone of this post is playful. It is not intended to invite lengthy flames. If you do not understand British humour, think twice before replying.)
A spokesperson said "It is a basic fact that any adult who says someone under the age of 17 can't do something is a fucking fascist bastard and should be hunted down like a dog."
They added that a more reasonable way of handling any problems parents might have about what material their children are viewing is to follow them around 24 hours a day and engage in random searches of their rooms and clothing. "That's taking your responsibilities seriously and not just handing them over to the Police State", he said.
Next week Ars Technica will be reviewing conversion kits which allow children to operate up to compact-sized cars and discussing plans to "get The Man out of kids' faces" when it comes to driving licencing.
TWW
"Encyclopedia" is to "Wikipedia" what "Library" is to "Some people at a bus stop"
"It would be nice if legislators could be impeached for introducing laws that violate people's rights."
They can, its called election day.
Unfortunately there are far too many people in this country who are all too willing to violate the rights of others. They don't care if some "other" gets stepped on as long as they avoid the boot. When individuals and groups fight for their rights, and enjoy adequate political representation to ensure that their rights are protected, then everything is fine. The problem is that those groups that do lack adequate political representation will subsequently suffer from a lack of legal protection. It doesn't matter if you're talking about young people, black people, American Indians, or any other group. Jim crow laws existed specifically because blacks in the south lacked the political power to prevent and overturn them. Likewise the legal drinking age is 21 in every state except Louisianna because 18 year olds lacked the political representation to prevent MADD from usurping their rights as adults. Jim Crow ended not because some white liberals from the north decided they wanted to change things. Jim Crow came to an end when blacks in the south decided that things had to change and began working to secure and defend their rights as citizens of this country.
The only way that your civil rights are ensured is through political power and the political action that creates and reaffirms that power. So if some politician tries to strip you of your rights and freedom, the answer is not to expect some external agency to hold him or her to account. The answer is to organize against this politician and work to have them thrown out of office.
Remember, freedom isn't free. If you're not willing to fight for it, then you've already thrown it away.
As for actual impeachment, what you're talking about is possible. If a politician supports a bill that violates the rights of his or her constituents, then he or she is violating his oath of office. Now convincing people that this politician should be impeached is of course a different story. But calling for impeachment, and screaming loud and clear exactly why you want them impeached, is a very good way of ensuring that even if they do manage to get re-elected they won't try to pull that kind of crap again.
Lee
Muslim community leaders warn of backlash from tomorrow morning's terrorist attack.
Heh, reminds me of something I heard years ago:
Q: What's the best thing to come out of Indiana?
A: Interstate 80
This rating is Unfair ( ) ( ) Fair (*) Funny
Sigh... If only. Modding would be so much more fun.
According to my former statistics professor 2 years ago, Indianapolis is the most statistically average city in the entire country. There is an entire statistics prediction economy there wanting opinions. If you visit the state and go to a mall around Indianapolis, you may find a few people handing out surveys. There is a very high number of universities to populace ratio in Indiana. Considering your typing, grammar, and spelling is below average, where do you think you lie in the average?
This law is about as stupid as the law requiring my pharmacist to write down my Driver's License number to sell me Day-Quil to verify that I am, in fact, not a drug crazed meth head trying to score some more dope but a law abiding citizen looking to get my sinus headache to go away.
So now all the meth heads are still making meth, with different and maybe even more volatile chemicals and the rest of us can't buy over the counter drugs over the counter anymore.
Next I won't be able to buy video games over the counter. They (being Big Brother) will track my every game purchase and decide that because I bought Fluffy Bunnies in Space and Grand Murder Chainsaw: Bob's Island that I must be in fact teaching myself how to kill rabbits with chainsaws and that I must be stopped.
The hilarious thing is I heard this on the radio on the way into work tonight and the media blitz is attempting to spin it like "those Godless Heathens at Wal Mart that have no Moral Base for what they do are selling your kids shotguns and tools to teach themselves to kill everyone in your family over the counter for $5."
Ok, so that wasn't the actual blurb, I paraphrased. But the gist is still there. "Won't someone think of the children?"
Oh, and I do by the way. Think of the children. When my daughters want to buy a shotgun and play with it in the house, I tell them no. I *gasp* watch them and interact with them in their daily lives!
"Genius may shine aloof and alone, like a star, but goodness is social, and it takes two men and God to make a Brother."
Precedent?
Who's to say that ten years down the road, an ultra-conservative government won't try to ban violent video games to EVERYONE?
Adults commit violent crimes, too. Who's to say people won't begin to question a connection between adult violence and video games?
These are questions we need to ask ourselves, before it's too late.
"everyone else has had more secks than me"
It is really only gonna be M and AO which is very few. Everything else appears to be exempted.
;)
So if it is so bad to sell a game for 18 year-olds to a 17 year-old, why is it ok to sell a game for 13 year-olds to 12 year-olds or 9 year-olds ??
Love the sexual definitions using community standards. It seems to include: "patently offensive to minors" Hell, there ain't no sexual content that most minors would find offensive
Anyways, it won;t go far nor would it stay there long if it does.
"They can, its called election day."
Even when successful, they are free to mingle in society, and able to run for office again. What about the concept that a violation of the peoples' rights by a lawmaker or official would make that official risk death, life in prison, forfeiture of assets, that sort of thing?
-fb Everything not expressly forbidden is now mandatory.
Now I'm smellin like Indiana
Oddly enough, and this is more of an anecdote than a post guess I'm in blogging mode, anyway. Oddly enough, I've felt ever since I was a child that I would live to see another U.S. revolution. I've looked into moving to Canada, and I *hate* snow, just because I have such an intense feeling. I do not want to be here when it happens.
But, I'm just a crazy Hoosier, so what do I know?
"Genius may shine aloof and alone, like a star, but goodness is social, and it takes two men and God to make a Brother."
Why make a bill against violent games? Isn't that why ESRB ratings were developed?
:) I told good ole dad to get a game without guns and prostitutes.
:) - when parents would beat their kids to within an inch of their life for doing something stupid, like smoking or being out late, or perhaps buying that crappy "50 Cent' thug life video game (would like to see 50 Cent do that crap in RL and catch a slug in has @$$)?
If parents actually looked at the game rating before buying 10-year-old Johnny GTA3 for his birhtday, they wouldn't be shocked by what the game offers after the fact. When I worked at a retail job, this sort of thing actually happened while I was manning the video game section. Thank goodness they had me looking out for Johnny
A better law for legislation would be for parents to be held responsible for what their kids do. What happenned to the old days - I'm 28 BTW
Make a law to fine lazy parents that let their kids run wild! Such a law, just like a law banning violent games, would be just as silly as a law that outlaws alcohol- I think we all know what happened with that...
On the same note (this will probably get modded all to hell, but what the hey...), why don't they just put the same age restrictions on Mature video games that they have for tobacco and alcohol? What to by Johnny for his 18th birthday? GTA4 with bazookas and ultraporn!
People have asked me (many times, in fact) if I advocate open armed revolution. I do not. I believe Lincoln prevented a peaceful secession, and I believe that won't happen either.
The only real long term solution to tyranny is to just let it drive itself into the ground, and to attempt to live as freely as you can. It isn't easy making it through the day avoiding taking advantage of what the State has provided (through robbery and coercion), but I try. Set an example, and wait. It may not happen in my lifetime, but I can at least set a good example for those who want freedom over tyranny.
If there is armed or peaceful revolt, I won't move. I'll continue to live my life as freely as possible and avoid those who want violence -- I don't advocate violence for any reason. I don't use US dollars anymore except for direct transactions (not as stores of wealth). I don't support stock markets, banking institutions and other support structures used to enslave the citizen base. You'd be surprised how much less stressed you can be when you don't have to worry about affording your future as you do every day -- by living as free as possible.
I can explain it to you. The explanation is that any time there is a news story that threatens porn or violent video games, Slashdot will post it in order to generate the maximum # of comments (preferably angry ones).
Being over 18 myself, and not a resident of Indiana, I am 100% with you.. this news story is very unwelcome.
Living in northwest Arkansas, home of Wal-Mart, I know for a fact that they do ID you for software that is rated MA 17+(my firend went to purchase Diablo 2 after the rating was changed, he was carded right in front of me... all he could say was WTF!?!?!). Other stores, such as EB Games and Gamestop, have carding policies if the clerk has reason to believe you aren't 17 or older. It doesn't stop someone from getting what they want. Like others have said, the only thing this actually does is force minors to procure mature rated software some other way... Over the net(the anonymity of the debit card), through parents, older friends. Laws such as this won't stop children from getting them and it annoys the hell out of me.
I'm 23 you ***damn idiot, give me my copy of "Murder, Rape, Pillage" before I cut you head off!
The reason I left the Republican party to join the Libertarians is because of bullcrap like this. Every damn politician seems to feel the need to legistlate morality from the capitol.
d _States). The reason it is universal is because the MPAA (remarkably, for once) listened to its customers and did business in a way to keep them happy. They tacked a rating onto each movie that asked for one and passed it onto the theaters, requesting that they display it and follow the recomendations.
Why not just encourage the ESRP ratings? Organize a email campaign to Best Buy et al to have them voluntarily follow the ratings. It's not unprecidented.
When you go to a movie theater, and they have it rated as PG-13 or R, it's not because Congress mandated it. It is a voluntary action.
That's right, voluntary.
Movie ratings are entirely voluntary for theaters (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Movie_ratings#Unite
Now most theaters in the US lists the ratings because they feel it's expected and normal, not because some stuffy politican demanded that they do it with laws and tedious regulations.
No laws, no regulations, just good business.
It would be good if these damn crusading politicians realized this for once and stopped adding crap to the lawbooks that doesn't need to be there.
Remember folks, slashdot doesn't have a -1 "disagree" moderation!
However, more on topic is the proverbial "can of worms" that could be opened up by passing such a law that declares a 'video game' to be a cause of violence. I imagine once such a law was passed, every attentive lawyers' ears would be pricked to capture any lawsuits that might unfold from any "naturalists" views that "Centipede" was a violent game in that it promoted the death of nature; or yet, perhaps if there were a day that we, as a human race, met any benign 'Aliens', that perhaps they would sue the entire human race for a game like "Space Invaders" that taught people how to shoot down all of their ships, when all they were trying to do was set down and say "Welcome People of Earth!"
There are too many video games of the past that could be consider *violent* on many different views and fronts, that it would be a judicial nightmare that will clog up our courts with absolutely idiotic frivolous lawsuits on how a person's twisted imagination (which will still exist in the absence of technological advances that portray them) affected society in such a manner that it ruined our way of life.
Perhaps if the game contained all the elements of picking up a torch and a pitchfork, spreading rumors around town, then selecting a 'witch' for which to burn down their property, take them to the river for a interrogative 'dunking' and finally burning them at the stake, we might actually have a game that would be acceptable to the litigious crowd.
I think that video games give people more freedom than they have in the real world, trying to restrict them in the virtual world (even if exposed to the real world) really chaps my buns. I do have to wonder at times, is it really the 'video game' that causes violence or is it a lack of a system of 'punishment' absent of that of 'reward' for those who play them? Only the parents truly know the answer to that question. Perhaps it is worth pondering.
Considering your typing, grammar, and spelling is below average, where do you think you lie in the average?
Below?
So violent videogames is an issue?
that's very interesting, considering the fact that each and every time I turn on my TV or listen to the radio, I see/hear something about war in Iraq.
But hey, they must be right, it gotta be the videogames that incite all the violence we see nowadays......pfftt
Yes, we *could* keep M and AO video games out of the hands of minors, at the request of the government. But think about that for a moment. Government would then be deciding what's best for our children, rather than parents. And if you agree with this law, then should government pass a similar law involving books?
One of my favorite books is Slaughterhouse Five. It's violent, sexual, but has a strong message. And I read it when I was fifteen. If Slaughterhouse Five were a video game, this law would prevent minors from buying it.
If we can restrict video games from minors, we can restrict movies, books, and other forms of entertainment and culture from minors. And then, we can control what the future generation thinks, and how it acts. If you hate Big Government, you should hate this law. If you love freedom, you should hate this law.
Indiana wants meee...
w ithout-telling-my-parents; I-hope-I-won't-get-in-troubleeee...
;)
But I can't go back there...
'Cause I'm a minor-who-just-bought-a-metric-tonne-of-AO-games-
Simon
"Indiana wants to join the ranks of the failures"
-- Actually, it's more of a solidifying of our position in that grouping.
If you examine the state rankings in various categories (education, income, employment), you will consistently find The Hoosier State struggling to get off the bottom. Most of the major employers have departed the state over the past several decades, and the mindless politicians looted the budget surplus of a few years ago when nobody was keeping track of outgo vs remaining balance -- this played nicely into our current budget deficit.
That said, I take this with a grain of salt, as we are heading into off-year elections next year, and politicians have this overwhelming desire to get their names out in front of the public. There have also been noises about our state joining the Intelligent Design circus.
POOF!! no more game worries!
Video games, from the days we were destroying 'aliens' in games like "Space Invaders", or enemy helicopters in old school games like "*M.A.S.H*", destroying living organisms in the game of "Centipede" or what have you, would be the kind of arguments that all lawyers would love to make money on contesting cases against the Plaintiffs who *might* have indulged into those games at a younger age.
I tend to think that violent games, while they may provide ideas of the 'real' or 'imaginary' world others have seen, they still do not define the person that experiences them. That is usually the reward/punishment system that is supposed to be provided. Their reward was probably the game system on which they were given to play the game, but where did the 'punishment' come in? Perhaps the parents should be aware to that.
If the game industry is actually supposed to be the source of punishment as well, maybe a game system that refuses to turn on for a specific amount of time after a player did something "too violent" would be in order, but I'm not sure I see that happening in the near future.
Parents need to realize that the television and the game console is not a babysitter; their children need to be raised by responsible parents.
Hey, lady! You call him Dr. Jones!
You bit but missed totally, the post below yours was the answer I was looking for. Also, I seriously doubt that video games will bring about the end of free speech as we know it. As I see it, this is not even a free speech issue. If anything is the same as carding a minor before they enter a rated R movie.
Considering that we _were_ the ones who tried to set the value of pi.
:-)
http://www.acc.umu.se/~olletg/pi/indiana.html
Us silly Hoosiers.
I, personally, would like to know why it is considered legal to sell anything to a minor, considering that minors cannot enter into legally binding contracts (in the general case, not counting underage emancipation). Without the use of a binding (though implicit) contract, how can a minor buy or sell? It seems strange that minors are unable to enter into formal contracts, yet are entrusted with ownership of property and the ability to buy and sell, which are derived from contract law. If the laws were consistent in this regard, then there would be no need to worry about kids buying "inappropriate" games/movies/books/etc. without their parents' knowledge, because no store would take the risk on a non-binding exchange involving property known to belong to a third party (it can't belong to the minor).
A number of people would probably object to the idea that no one under 18 can own property, but in my opinion that is an issue with the age of consent and not the principle expressed above. Eighteen years is far too long to remain a minor in modern society. It is ironic that despite being trusted to drive a car by 16 in many places (Indiana included), minors are not trusted to make their own moral choices until they turn 18. Driving poses far more direct, demonstrable danger to others than purchasing a violent video game.
"The state is that great fiction by which everyone tries to live at the expense of everyone else." - Bastiat
Once there is a law that is being broken, you have a reason to sue. This will be much easier to pursue in court than the 'video games made my kid do it' tactic, which has repeatedly failed
I agree with you on that. Having a law on the books does seem to lend that old 'the game made me do it' argument more credit than it deserves.
The law will undoubtedly.....
That is just speculation so, not really a reason the common man should care
The other angle is that the legislation wants to require Mature games be treated like Adult-Only material, in which case major retailers (WalMart) might stop carrying the stuff rather than deal with the extra hassle.
I guess thats possible but unlikely. The hassel involves marking any game with a 'rated M' or above title to require a photo ID. Since Walmart sells smokes and booze and their POS system supports this feature, it would be trivial to require the same for games. I never go to wallmart since they are too expensive. There are a couple places on line that sell new titles for $30 which is much better than the $50+ the big retailers charge.
Mod Indiana Jones reference +1 Funny, plz.
Wow, modded down to troll for daring to disagree.
Let me say that our state has a long and proud tradition of ME TOO laws, usually stemming from some stupid bullshit laws passed in either of the Costal meccas. Indiana sucks, if you're considering moving here it's probably because your lobotomy was successful or you like things so mundane they make eating lima beans look risque.
rupert from Survivor is now a local celebrity.
anyone want to donate to my paypal account so i can not only leave this morass of mediocrity but the country that spawned it?
What if the vast majority of a politician's constituents DO want to suppress the rights of a minority group (of any kind; ethnic, religious, hobby etc.) Then the elected individual WOULD be fairly respesenting the wishes of his/her constituents. It's only the Constitution and Bill of Rights that protect such a minority from the "mob" - majority rule is rightly limited.
BSA: "Would you like a free Software Audit"? me: "No, thanks. My software is all Free".
as a fellow hoosier, i can assure you that if indiana adopts the ID lunacy, I'll be hitting the US-Canada border as soon as I'm done with my undergrad at IU, and I'll deal with the postgrad stuff up north
We need to place an RFID chip in everyones dominate hand. The mouse would communicate at low power with the RFID chip. This would communicate SSL over the internet to a database at the Department of Homeland Security. When I go to launch GTA3, Postal2, that Ghetto Boys CD, or even an X rated video the computer will reference my age and either allow or deny me access.
l . 11.06-gamerep.htmll e?AID=/20051205/BUSINESS01/512050302/1066/BUSINESS 01
Granted, if there is a minor over my sholder then that is a problem. So maybe the mouse can read all chips in the room?
Then again, I am in "The Right." God gave us free will. He wants us to make the right decisions of our own free will, not by force. If parents buy GTA3 and give it to their 13 year old kid even though it says MATURE right on the packaging, then shouldn't complain when there is mature material in the game.
There is nothing wrong with the current system. The government can't take parenting out of parenting no matter how much they keep trying.
Besides, most gamers are now over 18.
http://www.games-advertising.com/demographics.htm
http://www.jupitermedia.com/corporate/releases/02
http://www.nforcershq.com/article2724.html
http://www.thejournalnews.com/apps/pbcs.dll/artic
The bill hasn't traditionally been squashed in the past. What's happened was that they were suspended pending the videogame companies's appeals. That means that they bills are the default state for the law. No, they aren't active now because they would adversely affect the video companies that are challenging the laws. But they are valid laws and will need something to be pulled rather than needing to be drafted in the first place.
Fine line, but important.
What's funny is the lady making the stink about this (at the state level). She was originally the mother-in-law of Tom Griswold, 1/2 of Bob & Tom. The guy who originally wanted B&T off of the air was preparing for a lengthy[1] polical career. B&T were on the air and the school buses were airing the show. Instead of asking the school association(s) [specifically, the one which his children attended] to turn it off, he decided trying to tar & feather B&T would get more air time for him and do the world a lot of justice.[3] It got him air time, but not as a candidate: a target. Bob & Tom decided to host their show the next morning in the parking area of the strip mall where Candidate Price worked (and doubled as a campaign office).
It was so bad so fast Godwin's Law didn't have a chance and Price, esq decided against going into work that morning as he was told about the crowd waiting for him. The cops finally came in to quiet things down because most of the customers didn't mind it, but they couldn't find a place to park.
I think Price is taking on cases about the same level as the attorney who originally ran the Indiana State Lottery and was found to have been diddling his assistant. She got a winning lawsuit, he descended into the virtual depths where the only clients you get are when someone cuts the finger off, fries it like a sausauge link and downs it with an improper wine.
The junior Senator (as in Federal, not state) is trying to stay in the news as he needs to deal with the label "fiscal conservative"[4].
_________________________________
[1] notice the distinct avoidance of MILF
[2] How long can you hold your breath? That's about how long as his campaign lasted.
[3] I believe George Karlin once pointed out TVs have two dials: one to turn it on|off, an another to change the channel. IIRC, he wants a brown sticker (like all of the ones people are displaying). He wants a brown one, telling everyone: esad.
[4] Which party uses this label?
The problem with that idea is that it would shut down the government. We elect our legislators because we WANT them to pass GOOD laws. If passing a law meant risking the gallows, then not only would congress sit on its hands and do nothing, but no one would want to run for office in the first place.
Muslim community leaders warn of backlash from tomorrow morning's terrorist attack.
It happens on both sides with equal frequency. Usually the leftie excuse is that the law is necessary for "the greater good", while the right claims they're acting "for the children". Although sometimes they swap positions when they get bored.
Max
My god carries a hammer. Your god died nailed to a tree. Any questions?
Comment removed based on user account deletion
We mock and make fun, but there's plenty of statistical evidence suggesting that the Red States are really, really retarded on many of those various categories.
Example: Lowest divorce rate? Massachusetts.. one of the blues states out there.
Trivia question: which group of states gets more federal money than it pays in taxes.. red or blue?
Answer: The Reds. Blue States pick-up the tab, while lazy Red States mooch.
As a reminder, video games (and movies and music) all involve at most virtual violence. Virtual violence is imaginary, and thus does not actually harm anyone. If video games involved real violence, people would be assaulted daily by them (playing CD frisbee doesn't count).
The U.S is fucking retarded and everyone outside your borders and thankfully a few Americans know this.
Let's sum it up.
Guns in every citizens hand. A so called right to, protected by people with guns.
Highest homicide rates in the world. Highest amount of fear, insecurity.
Your civil liberties that you so viciously protect are a farce. You're not free. You're slaves to your system. You're being run by a single guy, who is a fascist, fundamentalist, extremist, isolationist dumbass, not to mention a Republican - which means that his job is to steal your money and put it in the hands of his masters - the wealthy and powerful elite.
Your education system is laughable. Your religious doctrines have gone so far in legislation that you're close to Shia-law in the US. American Scientists value in the field have dropped by exponential factors since the US is quickly becoming the most infertile land in the world for any type of research. Not to mention how you educate the dumb - which is to say you're not. To point out obvious flaws that any other compassionate person would put first on the list of items to correct it would be your healthcare. But on the other hand, your country is so indoctrinated from birth by the same stuff Herman Göring filled his people with - patriotism, that people are lining up for bread and ammo at the selective service office. How anyone would want to die in Iraq because of his fascist leader is beyond me. I guess I've evolved - but you don't believe in that either. Your world is too small to comprehend God as bigger than both ID and evolution. Ants trying to make their situation liveable - are just ants.
So on another note, how's your new Xbox 360? Found a reason why you bought it yet? Don't come contradicting me with your bullshit either. I'm not listening, I'm *telling* you that meme-driven virus-infected minds like yours need to snap out of it and regain control of humanity's destiny through some other path than the one currently chosen. It's just a choice, but that choice is truly the only thing you leave behind after you move on and out of life. Please, work for a better society instead of spreading your virus. We don't need guns. We don't need people who protect other people having guns. The world needs food and clothing, not scared fuckers with guns.
Yeah I'm used to it. Mod me down. Negative Slashdot kharma is just proof that you're saying something that should be said.
What makes you think that politicians would suddenly become wise and considerate if they had the power to pass any law they wanted, and make it stick? If that were the case, then totalitarian regimes would have by far the most carefully-considered and fair laws, because they do not have a review process of any sort.
I'm not going to change your sheets again, Mr. Hastings.
I'm a Parent from the state of Michigan.
My kids play games, some of them online. Mostly its E rated stuff on the Gamecube but they have some T rated stuff and they've played one or two M rated games on my PC like Unreal Tournament 2k3 and Doom 3. I've seen nothing to suggest they're learning violent behavior from it at all.
A recent study that was done says that there is no connection whatsoever between violent videogames and violent behavior at all. My kids used to watch Power Rangers when they were little and it didn't do anything to them at all. Yes, children are impressionable and they tend to act out what they see but how much of what they see really does truly effect them on a long-term basis. So far from my own observations violent games have NO EFFECT at all.
In fact, my kids learned their primary colors from the Power Rangers, learned how to manage money from playing Kal Online (a free MMORPG at www.ganengane.com), and are learning to be better readers from ANIMAL CROSSING (an E rated title and probably one of the best game titles ever made for the Gamecoube IMHO). They actually play very few M rated games because I myself have very few. I have Vice City, I caught them playing it one time when my back was turned, but they got bored with it really fast and moved onto Leggo StarWars which they played like crazy. Just goes to show that when they are given an M rated game to play doesn't mean its the only thing they'll like to the exclusion of all else. My oldest son used to play Unreal Tournament a lot before we got Animal Crossing. Now its the only thing he plays and I had nothing to do with this shift at all. He made the choice to switch to the less violent game HIMSELF. Parents have to trust in their children's own sense of judgment. They know what is good and what is bad better than some adults do. This is something I think a lot of us adults have forgotten. Just because the law says someone under the age of 18 is considered a minor doesn't automatically mean they don't understand what is and isn't in their own best interests. On the contrary, I know a lot of young people who know what's in their best interests very well.
Michael "TheZorch" Haney
thezorch@gmail.com
http://thezorch.googlepages.com/home
[Hitler played] Tetris.
[Within this hypothetical,] I thought Tetris was Joe Stalin's game, and Hitler and Stalin were mortal enemies. Or is that part of the joke?
you need to pay licensing fees to have CSS in your product.
Then how does Mozilla Firefox, a free and Free product, get away with implementing CSS better than IE?
But seriously, though DVD CSS is subject to a paid license, you also need to pay licensing fees to have DVD physical media, MPEG-2 video, and Dolby Digital audio in your product anyway. What's CSS on top of that?
[The MPAA's CARA division] tacked a rating onto each movie that asked for one
Really? Is CARA's film rating process structured that it is affordable for studios other than MPAA members (Disney, Time Warner, Sony, Viacom, News Corp, or GE)? Is ESRB's video game rating process structured that it is affordable for publishers other than ESA members?
In theory, yes, representing their constituents is a politician's job. But guess what gets him/her re-elected?
They will fail again and the primary reason being for this is the fact that there is already ratings on the games, supervision of kids is the key to this, not banning kids from buying games. Why do parent's complain when their kids go looking for porn on the net and find some? why was the parent not supervising what they were doing. Why do parent's complain about kids watching violence on tv? same thing, why where they not supervise. It seems the parents are lazy and want the government to do their job for them.
Business Voyeur
The "base" for a particular politician may be spread out across the country, not all located in their district. So if a Democratic congressman panders to people like me even though I don't live in his district, I'd say he's doing his constituency a disservice.
When the axe came to the forest, the trees said, "Look out - the handle was once one of us."
You are a deeply disturbed individual! You represent everything that is wrong with society! There should be a law against it or something! I mean, what manner of sick and twisted mind would actually buy a playstation portable? Shame on you.
No, representing their constituents is a politician's job.
What country are you from? I'm from America, and in America it is a politician's job to pass laws that are in the best interest of the people, even if the people don't like those laws or those laws really aren't the in the best interests of the people.
Resentment is the sincerest form of flattery.
Muslim community leaders warn of backlash from tomorrow morning's terrorist attack.
As an american who gets BBC America and watches the occasinal british show. I think you are mistaken. British Humor only involves that funny song as people run around in conga lines being chased by the Bobbies SP? and stuff. they go into to different doors and sometimes they mess up the order and what not. Do DO Do Do do, do Do Dee do de do Duh. I cannot express the tune in words but you know what it is
If guns = crime why did the murder rate / crime rate in Texas go down after concealed carry was approved?
http://www.disastercenter.com/crime/txcrime.htm
And please support you position that "you're close to Shia-law in the US"
Resentment is also the basis on which you live on/for/through. Thought it might go through. I was wrong.
I assume by greater in this sentence, you mean more powerful, no?
Have you been touched by his noodly appendage?
"If passing a law meant risking the gallows, then not only would congress sit on its hands and do nothing, but no one would want to run for office in the first place."
They had hundreds of years to get it right. The idea that they need to make new laws either implies the old ones are flawed or else a requirement for them to look busy.
-fb Everything not expressly forbidden is now mandatory.