Slashdot Mirror
HD-DVD Confirmed For Xbox 360
JorgeDeLaCancha writes "Microsoft has recently confirmed plans to bring an external HD-DVD drive to the Xbox 360. This has been previously speculated numerous times, with Bill Gates himself stating 'future versions of Xbox 360 will incorporate an additional capacity of an HD-DVD player.' Do consumers even want another format war?"
I still am waiting for a format for burnable DVD's.
Wow, sent an e-mail as suggested when clicking on "use classic" banner, and got a fast response that addressed my msg
This makes total sense. Many people are using their current box as a Windows Media extender. Personally I hate the Windows Media box since it locks you in, but this will feed right into the wants and desires of those users. And on the format war side of things. I think Microsoft is going to brute force the format they want, and this is just one of the ways they are going to try to do it.
All the more reason not to buy a launch unit. That way, you're not stuck with some bullshit external HD-DVD drive, and you'll be able to get the console in black, like god intended.
The theory of relativity doesn't work right in Arkansas.
No, of course consumers don't want another format war. However, consumers don't get to directly decide which formats companies choose to put forth. Just because consumers don't want a format war doesn't mean they won't get one.
Of course, they can always end one very rapidly by not buying one format.
--
RumorsDaily
Another large external attachment
:)
AirSpeak - http://itunes.com/apps/AirSpeak
the PS2 has a harddrive but nobody uses it. The device didnt ship with the product so, to reach the widest audience, games are created with the assumption that it isnt there-- wont the same thing happen for this drive?
AFAIK Microsoft have said all games will be on DVD, the HD-DVD drive is for movie playback only I guess.
10 PRINT "LOOK AROUND YOU ";
20 GOTO 10
This is what I'm talkin' about.
The theory of relativity doesn't work right in Arkansas.
Why would anyone buy an HD-DVD player that has to be connected to an XBOX360 instead of being directly connected to the TV?
Especially when everyone knows that console add-ons are notoriously overpriced!
So...MS is selling a system that already has two price points: one for the basic system, and one for the system including the HDD. And now they're planning to also sell yet another add-on device - moreover, one which won't even enhance the gaming experience, but simply had movie playback functionality?
Who do they think is going to buy it? It's one thing when people decided to get a PS2 because they didn't have a DVD player. It's another thing entirely to expect people to buy an expensive add-on to an expensive system just so they can have a sub-par player of movies sold on an expensive medium.
MS should either have waited until they could cram the drive into the console, or cut bait on HD-DVD entirely. Their current strategy is a born loser.
And I say this as someone who likes the XBox, and fully intends to get a 360 at some point in the near future. I can't wait to see what the average "I AHTES TEH M$!!!11ONEONEONE" thinks of this...and I'm not even going to bother mentioning the...er, dubious...claim that the 360 is going to be the fastest selling console of all time.
Reality has a conservative bias: it conserves mass, energy, momentum...
With this whole DRM fiasco I guess it's a good move on Microsquish's part but other than that I have a feeling that even this technology is going to be DRM'd up the whazoo.. Anybody think Sony might incorporate the Blu-ray player into the game console right at the start?
I know it hasn't even come out yet, but Microsoft is sorry to have to announce a shortage of the HD-DVD drives for the Xbox 360. Please be patient, our gnomes are working as fast as they can to get more out by the end of this year.
He who knows best knows how little he knows. - Thomas Jefferson
Do consumers even want another format war?
Thats a pretty silly question. Did they want the first big format war (VHS vs. Beta)? Was there an popular demand for the 8-track versus cassette battle? Were folks riotting until there was a firm distinction between DVD+R and DVD-R?
Noone WANTS a format war. They do tend to gravitate towards the simplest and most practical technologies, though. Thats for for sure. When Microsoft includes HD-DVD with the 360, average Joe consumer will care. MS better do that before PS3 comes out or consumer opinion will be lost.
The only thing keeping this battle from being won already is where the porn industry stands.
"This is Zombo Com, and welcome to you who have come to Zombo Com" - www.zombo.com
Microsoft's been talking about this HD-DVD addon for a long time, yes.
But I thought the entire point of saying "it's coming" but not having it launch was that the HD-DVD addon was going to come out two or three years into the 360's lifespan, so it the HD-DVD support could be released when the technology was mature, ready, and affordable.
You know, instead of the HD-DVD expansion being announced like a month after launch, so it looks like Microsoft is thrashing around wildly and planlessly, like Sega at its low point in the mid-90s only really rich.
Is this HD-DVD addon even going to really cost any less than an HD-DVD player will in two years? For what reason would anyone buy an XBox 360 HD-DVD drive instead of a standalone?
if they really want to be fair they should sell either an external HD-DVD and Blue-ray player, or make the external support both formats. But the kings of hatred wont do that.
SEGA had already tried the hardware add-ons approach and failed miserably because of it. What makes Mr Gates think this time a combination of OPTIONAL harddisk and HD-DVD drive would actually work? Gamers got deeper pockets in this century or what?
I suppose your 'dumb move' comment is referring to titling your post 'first post' and subsequently getting modded OT ?
With this announcement, now I will consider buying an XBox.
Will there be an HDMI output cable for the Xbox 360 then? AFAIK, HD DVD requires HDCP which requires HDMI (or a DVI port that supports HDCP). Just curios - anyone have any info on this?
I'm confused.The XBox 360 only outputs component for HD. Either this HD-DVD add-on outputs HDMI (or DVI/HDCP) on its own, or Microsoft is planning a DRM war with the media companies. What's going on?
A lot of people dont realize that HD-dvd and blu-ray are new media, and therefore they will be pretty expensive until they become popular (just like dvds remember?) sony's blowing out of their ass all their games will use blue-ray, thats just not possible what do you think is going to be the price tag of the first blue ray game? how much will it cost to produce? will you be happy buying a $80-$90 game?
However in the long run, theres a good chance HD-dvd, blue-ray will become a popular formats (maybe in a year or two), and since consoles have a good 4 year run, is not a bad idea to offer the second batch of consoles with it or as an attachable device, you wanted it? well there it is, although just like sony ps2 hdd probably only a few games will use it. (at least until it becomes popular) yeah sony made the right choice by adding it, but they didnt added the HDD and probably they will have to the same stunt than ms and add it as an attachable on the long run.
Go ahead MOD my day!
More opinions here
But if you can slap on an external HD-DVD you could probably slap on an external Blu-Ray. A year from now if Sony and Blu-Ray have won the format war with only Blu-Ray movies readily available, will Bill bite the bullet and also make an external Blu-Ray available? Would Sony let them? Could Sony prevent it legally?
Letter To Iran
Games made for HD-DVD won't even work for early adopters of the 360. Those of you who shelled out $399, or worse, $700 or more for an ebay'd 360, will have to come back and buy an aftermarket HD-DVD player for God knows how much ($500 as of now). A future Xbox 360 with a HD-DVD player will most certainly cost well to the north of $299 or $399. Xbox 360 game makers may well go for the lowest common denominator which will hobble the usefulness of HD-DVD on that system for a critical amount of time.
Shades of the PS2 hard drive debacle.
or:
Consumers, hold onto your wallets!
This makes things quite interesting for when the PS3 comes out with a Blu-Ray drive, which I'm sure will be sold at a near equal premium price. If the PS3 includes Blu-Ray as standard equipment and doesn't pull a "ps2 hard drive" flop, the PS3 will no doubt be well to the north of $399 but at least all users, including early adopters, will be able to play all PS3 games.
--- Grow a pair, liberals... stop letting the Republicans bully you!
And thankfully, they won't get much of one. HD-DVD has won. Anyone who buys bluray will just be buying an HD-DVD and repurchasing all their media in 3 years. Bluray is dead in the water thanks to microsoft's vista terms. (Ouch how it hurts to say thanks to microsoft, and for using their monopoly power no less!)
"Who is the Journal of Quantum Physics going to believe?" --Stephen Hawking
It looks like this HD drive is for movies not for games. Even if it is possible to have games that use the HD-DVD player, no game will be made for HD-DVD because there won't be a sufficient install base to market such a game. A good reference point is the PS2 hard drive, there really wasn't much use of it except by Square who bundled it.
Why would anyone buy the HD-DVD drive? Because a $99 add on HD drive to your 360 will be cheaper than a $199 or $299 standalone HDDVD player. The math is pretty simple. From Microsoft's perspective it extends the capabilities of the 360 as a media player. I expect we'll see more such accessories, in fact while it may not be announced today there is no reason why a Blu-ray drive couldn't be added to the 360.
It would have been nice if the 360 shipped with an HD-DVD drive so games could use the extra disc storage space, but that opportunity has passed. Given the choice to stick with DVD technology, this addition of an HD-DVD unit is a smart move on the part of Microsoft.
---
I support spreading santorum
p.s. i could see sales slowing down even more as people wait for a new revision with the HD-DVD built in. as other people have said, who wants another external component.
With any newly released format drive, the cost will be astronomical. Remember when DVD drives were released, and then DVD-writables? Until the technology is cheap and plentiful, these drives are going to cost a lot on both the producer and consumer end. Does anyone think that MS is going to bite the cost and sell it on the red? Do they really think they are going to make money this way? I understand that Sony is also including their technology in the PS3, but they don't contract out for their production so costs can be reigned in and margins met.
That being said, I can imagine that if the peripheral for the 360 is significantly cheaper than the stand alone PC or home player drives, that this will push the MS agenda of creating a huge market draw for the 360 longterm while also promoting the HD-DVD format. And MS has always shown that they believe in the "spend money to make money" philosophy, so who knows?
All I'm saying is that if you just shelled out $500 for a system and maybe a few "eh" games (still waiting on Oblivion), is a $200-$300 or greater purchase in your plans for 2006? Or maybe you're gonna get some more games.
I am and always will be a stereotype, because who in their right mind prefers mono?
...this is quite as bad an idea as it might first appear.
First runs of new format players are pretty expensive. From the earlier article on here, the cheapest HD-DVD player is about 500 dollars. Given that it's just the drive, and doesn't need all the bits the Xbox already has (for converting the signal to different displays, power supply etc) it should be smaller and cheaper than a full player. Yes it's an addon box, but it's probably the cheapest way for someone with a 360 to get HD-DVD as well.
Of course, PS3 will have a BluRay player built in, but will be more expensive than the 360 is now, never mind any possible price decrease between now and then. Time will tell, I suppose!
Game dev and music blog
I don't think you need to worry about a format war if the only things that are being released on the two formats are video games for two separate systems. It's not like people were having "SNES Cartridge vs. Genesis Cartridge" debates.
How much will the thing cost? From the sounds of it, these HD DVD players are going to be expensive...is this going to cost as much or even more than the XBox itself?
So that'd be- an HD-DVD player?
Remember the sega genesis external cd/dvdrom? sega does not make hardware for a reason anymore, they lost their pants on that move
You see a problem, I see potential. - Vincent 'Vinnie' Antonelli
Including the part about the inferior technology winning. I like Blu-Ray, but PC's have a lot of leverage. As does Microsoft. It has been proven what Microsoft wants, Microsoft can usually get (game studios like Rare and Bungie being two big gets I know of offhand). And if they want HD-DVD to beat out Blu-Ray that badly, it will. An industry standard is more then a game studio of course, but you'd be a fool to think that Microsoft couldn't use their ties to almost every electronics company that dabbles in computers to bend the market in their favor.
In undeveloped countries, the consumer controls the market. In capitalist America, the market controls you.
I'm not sure that many of us consumers would "want" another format war, no. I'd suspect that a large number of us aren't particularly interested in a new format at this point, either. I'm not sure I see a major market driver here for acceptance of EITHER format - HD still isn't ubiquitous enough yet, and even in that (relatively) limited market I'm not sure that there's enough demand for higher fidelity (the only real consumer-marketable advantage I see to the format beyond the data storage expansion) to justify yet ANOTHER format.
/.'ers I'm not particularly fond of technology that very intentionally limits my usage, choice, etc.
I mean, jeeze, looking around my local video rental house, probably about half the shelf space is still allocated to VHS.
Even amongst the techno-savvy (the primary early-adopters of the formats and te consumers who are most likely to drive acceptance of either format), there are folks like me that are worried about the limitations in fair use and usability that content providers are trying to embed inside HD-DVD and Blu-Ray. The restrictions are a bit more watered down than what had been proposed for each originally, but like most
The parent makes a VERY valid point. Someone with mod points, and common sense please correct the mod on the parent - please.
The above post is absolutely true. Optional components are largely ignored by 3rd party manufacturers. Until an Xbox 360 actually SHIPS with an HD-DVD included, the software support will likely be very light indeed.
"...Well, there's egg and bacon; egg sausage and bacon; egg and spam; egg bacon and spam; egg bacon sausage and spam..."
But this is microsoft though, they may try to take a Halo game and put it on HD-DVD to try and push it since they can lose money left and right to force their way in.
Read my sig! That's right, keep reading...
I cannot find this quote in the article:
"... future versions of Xbox 360 will incorporate an additional capacity of an HD-DVD player."
Where was this? I'm confused whether they mean that only the future version of the Xbox 360 will be able to use the external drive.
I am scientifically inaccurate.
I would guess that the drive would be for movie playback. I, for one, will still purchase a seperate player for whatever format wins. I personally think using a game system for movie playback is dumb, but there is a % of people who will use it for that. I really can't see people buying either a 360 or PS3 just to watch movies on.
The drive itself won't be for games, as really, the need is not here yet. How many games, besides FF style games need multiple discs? Even newer games, like NBA Live 2k5 are CD-style on the PS2 (Blue discs), so I would agree that, for the time being, a DVD is plenty of space. For a few select games, there will be some disc-swapping going on, but really, I don't remember the uproar about FF needing 4 discs and to be swapped durring the game.
On a PC, thats a little diffrent story. With 200+ GB drives becoming standard, software developers will grow to fill the space quicker then on the console. Thinking offhand, it would be nice to have a single disc for things like encyclopedias, maps, and MSDN. Even today, its rare to find a game that requires more then a single DVD (minus games like Command & Conquer that use multiple discs to allow game play on multiple machines)
I guess at this point, its way to early to claim either side has won, buts its funny to hear the FUD being thrown around (Sony, I am looking at you about the whole 1080p "True HDTV" thing)
I think that is why they didn't try to squeeze the drive into the package of the next version (XBOX 361?).
The reason Microsoft has announced this player is three-pronged; First of all it's meant to bolster the HD-DVD effort by showing there will be players, to potentially dissuade someone from buying a Blu-Ray player earlier.
Secondly, it's meant to push some people off the fence if they are wavering between buying a 360 with no HD media support, and buying a PS3 later...
Lastly it's meant to placate the 360 owners that are going to be pissed when (and that is a when) Microsoft releases the 360 with HD-DVD built in around the time of the PS3 launch.
I'll make a further prediction that Halo 3 will be released at the same time, in an HD and non-HD version with some extras on the HD one.
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
That post was hardly a troll. Can someone please explain how on topic posts can be modded 'off topic' and how non troll posts can be modded 'troll'?
Perhaps in the middle of 2006 all the good posts will get modded down and the goatse ones will be at 5. It can't get much worse than this, after all.
--- Grow a pair, liberals... stop letting the Republicans bully you!
Yeah, like the PS2 lost so heavily to the nintendo.
Oh wait...
Core, Premium and HD Premium? Because I can't see MS *not* releasing an HD 360 at some point, with the HD drive built in. Granted, I don't have much interest in watching HD movies, but what concerns me more is if some games end up coming out on multiple discs on DVD, and one single HD. I hope at least MS makes the drive fit as neatly onto the 360 as the ill-fated Sega MegaCD did onto the Megadrive/Genesis.
its $399 for the Non-core, and worth every penny.
Reason, free market capitalism, and individualism
Hell most production companies are not even moving to HD yet. 99% of all commercials are still SD and every single Production company from commercials to cableTv to even episodic (no not the very few that are in HD because they are high profile) are mostly ignoring a move to even creating HD content for another 3 years. Besides high bandwidth HD content that needs bluray or HDDVD is not the only game. mpeg4 and Microsofts own offering can put a full movie in HD resolution and clarity as well as all the other goodies in a single dual layer DVD easily.
I would love to sell all the production gear and get a bunch of XL1HD cameras replace all the AVID stations with new Apple HD editing stations but the demand for HD content from the people that pay for it (companies wanting it produced) is less than 1 tenth of 1 percent. we get more wanting it shot on film than in HD or any aspect ratio other than 4:3. Granted we only do commercials here.
The need for HDDVD on a gaming system is even less. Almost all games dont even use a complete dual layer DVD.
Do not look at laser with remaining good eye.
Add another life certainty to the list of death and taxes: all Digital Rights Management and encryption schemes will [eventually] be compromised.
... has military grade security." Perhaps Microsoft should have consulted the U.S. military and inquired about the number of security protocols which have been either upgraded or entirely abandoned, based on their obsolescence. As everyone knows, the first Xbox's security measures were defeated within its first year on the market.
Early in the Xbox 1's deployment, Microsoft claimed that the "Xbox
http://www.xbox-linux.org/wiki/17_Mistakes_Microso ft_Made_in_the_Xbox_Security_System
This is not to say that Microsoft has not made significant improvements with respect to the Xbox 360's security framework, nor that the software programmers who designed the initial measures were at fault - Microsoft software engineers are a subset of the best programmers in the world. But any blueprint designed by fallible humans will have loopholes and areas of weakness to exploit.
Se, eventually, hackers will defeat the defensive routines built into the Xbox 360, allowing the piracy of copyrighted games and allowing basement-dwelling hackers to create homebrew software.
So why not remove at least some of the hacker's incentive to circumvent the hardware's built-in security?
The "Holy Grail" of the the hacking scene for the first Xbox was the Xbox Media Center (XBMC) application. Although Microsoft marketed limited "Media Center Extenders" to provide some additional [thoroughly limited] multimedia capabilities to the Xbox platform, the rogue hackers who created XBMC envisioned a multimedia powerhouse with support for all major audio/video codecs, allowing those who "modded" their consoles to utilize their Xbox as a first-rate multimedia center. In all honesty, no commercial enterprise has yet created software to match the capabilities of the underground XBMC project.
And now, four years later, Microsoft is making the same mistakes they made with the first iteration of their console.
The Xbox 360 is an absolute beast of a machine. With three extremely powerful CPU cores and a state-of-the-art Graphics Processing Unit, the Xbox 360 is the killer application to fuel American's current High-Definition craze. While the console has increased multimedia support [over that of the first Xbox], again, it is deliberately and significantly limited.
Want to stream video over your home network to your Xbox 360? Sure, but only if you have a PC with Windows XP Media Center Edition, and then only for certain Microsoft-approved codecs. [Note to Microsoft Vice Presidents: ignoring the XviD and DivX codecs will not make them go away.] Artificially limiting the multimedia capabilities of what could truly be the most significant piece of consumer electronics on the market will not reduce the incentive for hackers to add the capabilities which should have been designed into the console since its inception.
For example: the Sony PlayStation 3 console will have support for Blu-Ray High-Definition DVD movies, and this capability will undoubtedly ignite the next wave of Hollywood's eternal re-release of the same movies in higher-quality gloss. The Xbox 360 has this very capability, today, on standard DVD9 media, but Microsoft has deliberately omitted this feature. The WMV-HD codec can produce gorgeous High-Definition audio/video content, but despite pioneering the effort to have feature films released in WMV-HD format, none of the WMV-HD DVDs on the market work with the console. Despite the fact that the Xbox 360 is placed in the very heart of the home-theater space, connected to all of the consumer electronics required to demonstrate the capabilities of the WMV-HD initiative, you still need a Windows PC to play any of the WMV-HD DVD releases. This is the very definition of a wasted opportunity.
So, this leads to a
The always canonical and true Wikipedia has an entry on the XBox 360 which makes no mention of digital DVI support. See the "AV Connection" section. Are you disputing the veracity of Wikipedia?!?!
Why would anyone buy an HD-DVD player that has to be connected to an XBOX360 instead of being directly connected to the TV?
The question ("Do consumers even want another format war?") makes a false assumption. Although it's off by only one single letter. The right question is:
Do consumers ever want another format war?
And the right answer is: no
I think he's referring to the soup of DVD(+/-)(R/W). It is just a mess for people to deal with
Which brings up an interesting point. The market's "solution" was to start selling dual-format DVD burners (+/-). There was a price premium over the single-format DVD burners, but now you can get them for around $30-$50, and it seems that most burners are dual-format.
I wonder if we'll end up seeing a similar solution in the HD-DVD/Blu-ray war, where companies start selling dual format drives. It would appear that's a solution the customer is willing to accept, even at a higher price point.
The theory of relativity doesn't work right in Arkansas.
Apparently Microsoft's strategy is not to put DRM into existing PC's. The strategy is to put DRM into the Xbox, sell the Xbox to all the suckers out there, then gradually make the Xbox as much like a PC as possible. Then make people believe that if they have an Xbox, they don't need a PC. Once they've replaced the PC with the Xbox, Bill gets all the lock-in, DRM, and control he wants, and he never needs to change the PC at all.
If you'd told me 5 years ago that you were going to buy a system where you have to buy add-ons to play the best games, where you had to worry about worms and trojans, you had to make sure all your hardware and software is compatible and up-to-date, and you had to pay royalties to Microsoft, I would have said "oh, you're buying Windows." "Nope," you reply, "I'm buying Microsoft's video game console."
...just my 2 gil.
if they really want to be fair they should sell either an external HD-DVD and Blue-ray player, or make the external support both formats. But the kings of hatred wont do that
You have to be kidding me. You know that we are talking about the video game console market, a market that is almost completely entrenched into the concept of locking people into proprietary hardware. Are you also saying that Sony should either scuttle the idea of having a BR player internally on PS3 and make the drive external (say through iLink) or have an option for either format. I think not. But you call M$ "the kings of hatred" because they settled on a format years ago? You don't like their choice in formats, don't buy their console, simple as that. No one is forcing jack down your throat other than yourself.
...and will provide consumers with even more choices for experiencing high-definition content, in either physical or digital form.
Physical HD content? Are they talking about the real-life experience (aka, the world you interact with when not sitting in front of a TV)?
Yet another word that dehumanizes people and reduces the customer-to-business relationship to a mindless economic equation.
occultae nullus est respectus musicae - originally a Greek proverb
So, you arer going to buy an xb360 now that they are adding on an external drive?!!?! 2+2 does really equal 5 I guess.
Ubuntu- Linux for human beings.
All this talk of add on drives reminds me of the Dreamcast and the persistant rumours of a DVD drive.
Before the PS2 was released there were so many people saying they would wait for the PS2 because it was also a DVD player that rumours began floating around that either a new Dreamcast with a DVD drive or an external drive would be released.
The DVD drive was never officially announced though, whether it was just a rumour or something based in fact I don't know. What I do remember was instead of it helping people to commit to buying a Dreamcast it just made people decide to wait for one with a DVD drive. Given that the rumour acted as a spoiler on sales I often wonder if it really came from Sega or actually Sony...
So with the 360 we have a white console with VGA out and Sega games launched roughly a year before the next Sony console. It would be perfect deja vu except I'm sure Gates' pockets are deep enough to fund the 360 no matter what.
Anyway, I'm dubious as to how soon we'll see an HD-DVD drive for the 360, this announcement strikes me more as a way to hook those saying they'll get a PS3 because of Blu-ray.
Preferably both would crash and burn, and holographic discs would come out not long after with no DRM.
The HD Drive won't be for games, movies only.
Where some of you picked that idea up is beyond me.
All in one systems are sweet. 360 is not the end all be all to this new idea, it's just the start.
the X360 A/V architecture is pretty open ended. For instance, you can get a VGA pack for it to drive VGA displays directly.
I can't say for sure that an HDCP/HDMI output box is a sure-thing, but there was a lot of flexibility designed in up front, so i think its very possible.
My opinions are my own, and do not necessarily represent those of my employer.
OK, so they release a HD-DVD capable reader. /.'ers is it'll be for MOVIE playback.
Speculation amongst
I suspect some Games will use it, but not this year.
OK, onto the movie angle.
Since the vast majority of HDTVs are NOT HDMI or even HDCP compliant,
this doesn't make sense.
HD-DVDs won't play over component outputs (like on the Xbox 360, yes it has other outputs). So the VAST majority of current HDTV owners will ONLY get 480p output from this player. So why bother? If you want to watch a 480p movie, buy the DVD!
I'm hoping I'm completely wrong and that this (and even the PS3) console attachment WILL at least push out 1080i from their players to component TVs. I won't hold my breath though.
Why do people on Slashdot keep bitching about a "format war?" It's called competition in a free market, this freedom of choice thing you guys keep talking about.
The better format--be that image quality, more supported titles, cheaper players, whatever--will win out. That's how it's supposed to be, and that makes it better for consumers because both formats will try to undercut each other, which means cheaper prices and better players.
Stop bitching about a format war! Welcome it!
"Sufferin' succotash."
I suspect that it'll be possible to connect either item of hardware via the same interface. Now, the existence of drivers, DRM, media to use either type of drive - that's another story.
Television manufacturers wisely avoided this by using a standard interface which would work with either Beta or VHS. ;^) I suspect something similar applies here.
premium system 400 bucks + a HD-DVD drive 200/300 bucks = 600/700 bucks system
Where are those x360 fanboys saying that ps3 would be hell expensive?
I can't think of a single person who would care about a new DVD format. Guess Microsoft really has their eyes set on games and movies. They jumpstarted this current game generation, which was questionable, but hey, I love my 360 and people were ready for a new system.
But to jumpstart the next movie format is a wayyyyyy risky. This year is too soon.
It's for watching movies. No one has to support it. This is a convergence thing, most HDTV's only have a single DVI or HDMI input on them. It makes sense to have a single box that provides all your HD content since it's so much easier to run out of inputs.
I like it because it will take up one shelf in my entertainment center instead of 2 (console + HDDVD player).
You are exactly correct. Any peripheral is doomed to fail because it has the effect of fracturing the market. Historically, every console add-on has "failed" in this respect. The NES light gun, SNES Super Scope, Sega's 32X for the Genesis, Sega CD-ROM.
Now I say "fail" in quotes, because obviously if the manufacturer sold enough of a peripheral to turn a profit, then it's not much of a failure to THEM. But overall, third-party publishers rarely support such add-ons for fear of low sales. If a console has 10 million sold, usually peripherals only sell to a fraction of those customers. So, just picking numbers out of my ass, let's say the add-on sells 1 million. Now you as a publisher must decide to try and sell to either the 10 million standard consoles, or you can choose to sell to the 1 million with the special add-on. Which one makes more sense to try and market to?
Say, a game that nearly everyone will get. I'm thinking along the lines of Halo 3.
Just a guess. I have no idea how well it sold.
Well, they sold the XBox itself in the red. They've shown that they have no problem whatsoever losing money if it lets them extend their dominance in the market.
So yeah, if that was the case, I have no problem believing that they would willingly lose money on it. I'm not saying they will, because I don't know the numbers-- just that if they had to, they would.
My script don't crash! She crashes, you crashed her!
"Do consumers even want another format war?" Seems like an odd question to ask, have consumers ever even WANTED a format war? Consumers in general are like a herd of cattle, they'll buy whatever the flashy ad on TV tells them to. They don't want to spend hours of research reading through techno-babble to try and devise which offering is better. They just want to walk in, say "I need a player", pay for said item, go home and enjoy. Format wars are strictly one upmanships between manufacturers to see who can create enough buzz about their product first so that everybody else is forced to switch technology and pay royalties, regardless of which is the better technology for the consumer.
Microsoft must have some deeply vested interest in all this to be pushing so hard so as to ensure HD DVD's victory over Blueray. Besides it being a concern for which technology to introduce to the 360, what do they really have to gain with one technology trumping the other? Maybe they've spent the last year coding everything to support HD DVD and just are too lazy to go back and recode everything to support Blueray *shrug*
If big boobed women work at Hooters do one legged women work at IHOP?
HD-DVD has NOTHING to do with whether games are in HD or not
Unless the developer wants to make a really big game world including lots of textures, high definition cut scenes, and 120 hour play time. Cutting it down to DVD-9 might force the developer to cut texture resolution and downsample the cutscenes to 480p. Multiple discs worked in Final Fantasy VII because the game could be neatly segmented into three parts, but it doesn't cut it in an age of free roaming around game worlds a la GTA series.
Does anyone remember when game consoles were for playing games, not for making you a pawn in a scheme to not only invade your living room with a particular brand name, but also to propogate a specific format of media that has nothing to do with games?
Hell for the money you can prolly buy a laptop. Then you can get a mouse and play some real games not the console crap. And if you're really hard up for an external drive, you can get that too.
http://www.stockmarketgarden.com/
The article you linked to has the REAL reason HD-DVD may win:
Am I the only one who remembers why USB 2.0 replaced Firewire in next generation PC standards? It was Apple's demand for a mere measly $1 per port licensing fee (admittedly on $30 is freaking enormous compared to this in the world of razor-thin PC profit-margins.
On the other hand, the PS3 will come with Bluray. That's its biggest saving grace. Even if Windows doesn't support Bluray, Sony or someone will be sure to write drivers for it, and Windows will thus have to support it in some fashion unless they take really blatantly illegal moves to block it. As is, MS is already treading on thin ice with their current actions.
If it's for-profit but free, you're not the customer -- you're the product (e.g., the Slashdot Beta's "audience").
Somewhere, there was a schedule slip. A bad one.
Check what's happening on Ebay. Early on, Xbox units were selling at high premiums. That's over. Core systems sold for $330 today. At $355, core systems don't sell. That's an unopened price; used systems are down to $200 or so. Many speculators who bought systems for resale are still trying to unload them, and they're not making money when they do.
This is not a "must have" product any longer.
... but will it be compatible with the Mega CD and N64DD?
THE HONOUR OF THE KNIGHTS - CC Licensed Sci-Fi Novel
"Games made for HD-DVD won't even work for early adopters of the 360. Those of you who shelled out $399, or worse, $700 or more for an ebay'd 360, will have to come back and buy an aftermarket HD-DVD player for God knows how much "
HD-DVD will be supported for movies, not games. This way a 360 owner can keep 1 box in his living room to play 360 games, xbox1 games, DVD movies and HD DVD movies.
There is no plan to create GAMES on HD DVD's.
Online play isn't applied to many PS2 because the Broadband adaptor peripheral didn't come standard? Your original point is wrong because HD-DVD won't apply to X360 games, only HD movies?
You're, uh, wrong?
Did people not see this coming? M$ realizes that high-definition movies queues the need for a format supporting larger file sizes. Right now, I think the more popular choice is HD-DVD, so I'm happy with the choice. Again, none of this has to do with the fact that I've chose to go with the 360 over PS3, I just think they've made a good move here.
Ahh, that's actually $399.75 and your dignity.
You have to buy the string to fix the power supply, and for the love of god, man! You bought the CORE system? Have you no shame?!
Just another "DOJ fascist authoritarian totalitarian bootlicker" -- Zeio
Not as if PS3 will offer you choices of HD-DVD or Blue-ray. Everyone is picking a format to support.
We never complained about Playstation1, Dreamcast or Gamecube not being able to read each others' game disk media, and for PS3 or Xbox360 games I really don't care what media format they use. I don't expect to try and read an Xbox game in a PS3 or vice-versa.
But I'm really not looking forward to trying to explain to people next Christmas how to buy the right thing for movies on my list. It's bad enough now between full-screen and widescreen formats, Of all the movies I got only one was my preferred widescreen format. One person said that there was no widescreen version of Fantastic4. OK, maybe Walmart doesn't sell both versions of every single title, but that doesn't mean it doesn't exist. Now, picture grandma looking at 4 boxes on the shelf for the same title, DVD full-screen, DVD widescreen, Blueray and HD-DVD. What are the statistics that you'll get the right one in that case? I recently saw something about the high-def formats providing image data in the disk's native resolution of 720P or 1080i. Does that mean there will be two HD-DVD versions as well, and take the number of versions of each title to 5?
At least for TV series DVDs they're nearly all only full-screen and you can't get those wrong. Maybe that'll change next Christmas as well.
At this point, I really don't even care to buy movies anymore.
(For those non-Christians, no offense. search/replace my holiday with some gift-giving tradition of your own)
It's an open question. It doesn't seem likely that MS would buck heads with the entertainment industry, especially when they're bending over backwards to support DRM in Vista. I guess we'll just have to wait for some official clarification. --M
This is a luxury item. If you don't want it, don't buy it.
They are way behind the leader in the console market, how in the hell are they forcing you to do anything.
All they are doing is giving you an option. Yesterday, 360 owners had DVD and that was all; today they have an aditional option.
Cut out the *fair* bullshit. It would cost them a lot more then it is worth to support both formats so they picked one.
Jorgie
If you think Microsoft is the "kings of hate" you obviously have not read the Blu-Ray spec. Blu-Ray spec is pure DRM evil.
SegaCD *cough*
I dont see much advantage in purchasing an external dedicated HD-DVD player over a simple add on peripheral. Other than possibly the unit's ability to remember where you were in a movie when you stopped it or better software or a nicer remote....the picture quality of a movie is not as reliant on the quality of the HD-DVD player as DVDs were on the quality of the DVD player. This is because the HD-DVD player no longer needs to possess a D/A converter like normal DVD players do. The HD-DVD player plays a very small role in the whole setup. it simply needs to be able to read and decrypt info on the HD-DVD, authenticate with a downstream device, encrypt the data for transmission according to the HDCP specification and send digital bits serially using TMDS to the television. this is all in the digital domain
previously, DVD players would send a voltage signal to the television which would sample at a certain frequency, the voltage level of a single sample would represent the value to be used for a single pixel on the display...the dvd player would thus send analog streams of pixel values...so neighboring pixel voltages could affect each other's values.
since HD-DVD players send striclty digital ones and zeros (of course at a much faster rate) which are then grouped and used to determine a pixel value, theres very little an HD-DVD player can do "poorly" in terms of quality.
the advantages of dumping $1000 on a "high quality" HD-DVD player over the xbox 360 add-on are not very apparent. of course if ur connecting ur HD-DVD player to a standard TV, then maybe....or if your HD-DVD player is also performing audio D/A conversion....perhaps its more worth while to spend money on a better unit....but then again, why would you be doing either of the aforementioned things??
It looks like holographic storage may be the winner. VHS lasted 20 years. DVD lasted 5 years. Even when Blu-Ray replaces DVD, it's going to be the shortest lived format ever.
the memory pack was bundled with donkey kong 64. it was optional with rogue squadron; the game would run at higher res with it. I believe perfect dark it was also optional, butyou couldn't play multiplay without it.
for zelda: majora's mask, I believe it was required, which is why that game has more detailed environment than ocarina of time had.
the memory pack doubled the amount of Rambus memory from 4MB to 8MB, if I remember. Question is, did it actually add-on, or did it just disable the built-in 4MB?
I recall reading that MS wanted Sony to remove the DRM from the BluRay drive so that it would output a clean (non-DRMd) stream to the XBox. Sony declined and that's why they went with HD-DVD. This begs the question as to what kind of DRM is on the HD-DVD video stream.
I used the wrong name.. It was called the Expansion Pack. It popped in the little slot under a plastic cover on the top of the N64. It had a red top, so your N64 would be visibly upgraded.
IGN has further proof.
apparently none of you guys have been able to see through the bull****
why do u think MS released essentially NO info about the thing? their way of describing the thing is sooo vague...its obvious they are going to make an external version for poeple that already have an xbox 360...and its going to be standard on the new xbox 360s made around the time of the release of the ps3. MS isnt stupid. do u think they would attempt to have a console with an ADD-ON hd-dvd player compete with a ps3 that has an internal blue-ray player? obviously not.
read through the BS and ull figure out the "add-on" isnt targetted at everyone, just the people who bought an xbox360 early.
Of course, the addon HD-DVD drive isn't meant to be used my consumers today. It is cleary intended to be bought years after the Xbox 360's lifecycle is over, and will sell for outrageous prices on eBay since nobody bought them orginally and few are on the market. Remember the Dreamcast Broadband Adapter? Same principal here. (I'd recommend buying three or four of them, and keeping them MIB.)
where the comment ends and sig begins
Wow. So now I can have an Xbox as a HD-DVD player, a Playstation as a Blu-ray player, and still need my existing DVD-Audio+SACD player (my sympathy to those who bought in before unified players on that one). Mind you, I can't find much content for that multichannel audio player anyway, but I'd like to still be able to play the few discs I have.
I hate format wars. I'd wait this one out until a unified player as well, but I already have a 360, and I'll probably end up getting a PS3.
ok, so everyone is upset because MS has a new add-on for the 360? Well, lets think about it, if you want to watch HD movies (I know i shure do), would you rather spend $500 to $800 for the new standalones(check out toshiba), or buy just the drive for $100 to $150 and let your existing hardware (X360) do all the processing? (i can't see MS pricing it more than that) I for one commend MS for giving us the option and not making me kick myself for buying the 360 too earley. Thanks for giving your consumers a choice.
Damn, those are big boobs!!
From TFA: Microsoft Chairman and Chief Software Architect Bill Gates (L) and CEO Steve Ballmer (R) play the Xbox 360 Fight Night, Round 3 video game with boxing commentator Al Bernstein (C) during Gates' keynote address at the 2006 International CES. Las Vegas, Jan. 4, 2006.
Good thing it wasn't a WWF game, Ballmer would have thrown a chair at him...
I hope it would connect physically to the system and not need an extra power supply. A lose portable drive with it's own power supply would be stupid.
This ADD-ON is Microsoft's response to the annoucement that the Sony PS3 will use Blu-Ray. It was an announcement which I understand didn't sit well with Microsoft reps who attended Sony's press conference. From what I hear, the Redmond boys were pretty upset. In a way this is too little too late for the 360. Console ADD-ONS have notoriously been major flops with the exception of the addon for the GameCube that lets you play GameBoy Advance games on your TV. That one actually sold very well, and then theirs the HD for the PS2 which shipped with Final Fantasy XI. That one sold well also. But, few others have succeed. Nearly all of the lightguns released for the different consoles didn't do all that well. Remember the SuperScope for the SNES?
Michael "TheZorch" Haney
thezorch@gmail.com
http://thezorch.googlepages.com/home
Awesome Bill, a brilliant initiative that will go down in history with the Sega 32X and SNES 14 Speed Food Processor as the most useful console peripherals of all time. When Blu-Ray finally wins the format war due to it's vastly superior capacity in 12 months or so all the people who buy one of these are going to feel really smart, and be very greatful to Microsoft for leading them down the path to redundant next-gen home entertainment technology. LOL
Haven't you got anything better to do than read my stupid signature?
This looks like the only solution they could come up with to raise the least problems with people who have already purchased Xbox 360's. This way they can claim that it is external but start producing standard consoles which take HD-DVD and eventually move all the games onto that platform. A very shady move there if what I predict happens.
Business Voyeur
if they really want to be fair they should sell either an external HD-DVD and Blue-ray player, or make the external support both formats.
Or, if they were truly interested in making the X-Box a better system, they could do the following:
But, business is business, and they will do what they can get away with
But the kings of hatred wont do that.
I thought the Kings of hatred worked for talk radio. You know, just a suggestion...Microsoft may be a large business, with questionable ethics and methods...In short, they __may__ be so focused on the bottom line (making as much money as possible) that they'll do anything to reach that goal, but calling them the "Kings of Hatred" reflects poorly on the person using the phrase.
First of all, the "Kings of..." phrase shows a larger-than-life negative portrayal of people who are human beings. In effect, it shows that you know little about them, and instead, portray them as batman villans, or living charicatures.
The second reason I suggest using a different term is because hatred implies that it's about hurting others. It implies that either they want to harm the public for no reason, or that they are bigots. I apologize if i seem heavy-handed, but there is a world of difference between uncompetitive business practices and hate-crimes.
AFAIK Microsoft have said all games will be on DVD, the HD-DVD drive is for movie playback only I guess.
That's what they're saying NOW. Remember, a couple a months ago they were denying there would ever be an HD-DVD addon at all. Now there suddenly is...
There will be HD-DVD games for the 360, you can bet your life savings on that.
Reminds me of those expensive Sega CD and 32x gimmick. The reason why it did not take off was because it was insanely expensive. Wonder what how are they going to price this? $300 (core) + XX (value of HD-DVD drive) = very expensive (so far) I'll wait and see
ATX360!
[filler text against the lameness filter]
So let's say this new add-on is external. What if MS decided to make an HD-DVD stand alone player, that *could* be controlled by the 360? So on it's own, it would be a perfectly functioning DVD player, but could also be connected to the 360 (via some high speed type of bus like usb2/firewire), thus allowing no 'remote hell'. If you price it reasonably, it could be the solution to a problem that no one has yet solved: proper interoperability.
If they really wanted to go out on a limb, MS would open up the standard for the control and video protocol, and allow PS3 owners to purchase an XBox 360 HD-DVD add-on. Wouldn't MS grin if every Blu-ray equipped PS3 had an MS HD-DVD addon?
Just a thought.
-- I have fans? Wow.
It'll never fly. Add-on drives never do. First, it'll likely cost a couple hundred dollars (which, on top of the already high X-Box 360 price, is sure to push the total towards $1,000). Second, game companies know the price will be a killer, and won't want to develop for it if there's little chance of adoption by gamers.
Look at, for example, SegaCD. Sure it had about 20-30 good games, but the total number of games released was only around 100. And then they compounded that failure with the 32X. *groans*
At least Nintendo had the good sense to ditch their CD-ROM attachment for the SuperNES. Hopefully Microsoft will ditch their HD-DVD plans before it, too, becomes another footnote in the "expensive attachments always fail and never gain support" section of your favorite gaming history book.
All I know about Bush is I had a good job when Clinton was president.