I won't be either the first or the last to point this out, but this looks like staged chaff to distract the feeble-minded American public away from the new psy-ops operations now gearing up for the next election cycle.
So easy to think: "Ha. If Trump was colluding with the Russians would he allow this!" (stupid libs.)
They may have not gotten the $11M for themselves but if they really crashed out 9,000 desktops and 500 servers I would bet the overall damage is actually much more than $11M.
Is it some attempt to get Bloomberg to change its obvious stance?
That would be my guess and if I were running PR for Tesla that is what I would do.
My housekeeper's husband works at the plant (we live about 3 miles away) and he tells me it has become pretty regular for Musk to be spending overnight at the factory. Whatever else you might say about him he seems to be taking it seriously.
I think they can do this, but I bet the self-driving cards will be strictly limited to pre-computed routes.
Also I would expect the routes to be augmented to accommodate self-driving cars. And not on the freeway.
The thing about driving in Japan is that off the freeways and major roadways space becomes incredibly restricted. Taxis (which are all very good) will take you down neighborhood streets so narrow that you can reach the vending machines on the side of the road from inside the taxi.
For all of that they know how to follow rules there. If anyone can do this they can.
The autopilot in a plane also requires all pilots to be trained and aware of not just its abilities but also its well defined limitations. Are you suggesting Tesla drivers should all require a separate training and certification process to be able to use autopilot?
It is called a drivers license.
Not just Tesla drivers should have one.
It is simply astounding to me how many people are willing to show up on message boards and empathically declare and take the position that is perfectly OK and a statutory right for drivers to operate dangerous vehicles without knowing what they are doing. Yet here we are.
I would bet money that each and every Tesla driver that has wrecked their car has had it told to them both verbally and in writing about the limitations of the "Autopilot" feature. I would be surprised if Tesla even allows them to take delivery of the car without getting the customer to sign off on it. (Maybe they do I haven't checked -- can someone confirm?)
Question: I have a Jeep that was sold as an "All Terrain Vehicle." Well a cliff is "terrain" isn't it? If I drive my Jeep off a cliff what would you think about a lawsuit suing the manufacturer because the LIED about its capability?
An airplane's autopilot can crash the plane. Either by flying into the side of a mountain, running out of fuel, running into another plane, or into weather conditions the plane can't handle. All possible and even likely if the human pilot does not take responsibility.
And the collection of devices is still called "Autopilot" and have been for more than a half century. Nobody claims that the respective manufacturers have oversold their product and/or delivered defective product.
I mention this because I pointed out this obvious fact when this story popped up on a popular liberal political blog. I was roundly denounced as I was "blaming the victim." Then referred to breitbart.com where apparently that is considered acceptable. Stupid me for expecting better.
So I guess the noisy media circus that goes on any time Tesla is mentioned isn't going to abate anytime soon.
I have no interest in the politics of which web browser to use. I use Safari, Edge, Chrome, and Firefox all the same time.
Safari for business browsing and other stuff. It is integrated best with MacOS naturally.
Edge when I have to do Windows stuff (in a VM) and it turns out to be a pretty good PDF viewer and some other interesting features.
Firefox when I am doing personal surfing and media playing. That way I keep my personal browser history separate from my business browser history. If I decide to wipe my personal browser history then I can do it and I don't lose the business history.
Chrome is best for JS debugging. It is really nice to be able to set breakpoints, single step, and inspect runtime state from inside the WebStorm IDE. Both Typescript and Javascript.
On top of that when I develop a web page or web app I use all of them to see how it looks in each and whether all the JS stuff works the same. That's the least I can do for my work, right?
If you can't comply with your obligation to release your code... because proprietary... then don't fucking start by using open source in the first place.
If the SFC is approving of Tesla's efforts then I doubt you or me is going to find fault they didn't find. Granted that they were slow and they may have started off in bad faith (not proven) but that is not where they are now. The SFC text cites NVidia and Parrot ("upstream vendors") as the problem in this case and this issue rests with them just as much as Tesla.
As someone whose vehicle currently runs the specified version, I now happily await the hacking that my car is sure to get.
If you are blaming this on the disclosure requirement of GPL I think you are off base. One of the benefits of open source is that potential or actual exploits are discovered and fixed more quickly. So if getting your car hacked is your concerned you should be in favor of Tesla publishing all of it, not just the GPL portion.
This seems like a thread where I can expect the usual Tesla haters to use this topic to illustrate how corrupt, lawless, out-of-control, stupid or just plain evil (probably all) Tesla is.
So I thought I would just get ahead of all that and leave this here:
While our preference is that companies provide adequate CCS immediately, we realize that this can be a challenging process and recognize that Tesla has struggled for years with upstreams to yield proper CCS. We believe Tesla's new approach also has merit, because it allows the entire community to discuss and contribute in public and collaboratively assist Tesla in complying with the GPL.
I have struggled with this myself in the past. What do you do when your source code reveals an API to some licensed module which is not itself open source and you are under NDA not to reveal its details? I am sure Telsa's work involves a lot of that.
As usual, the best sci-fi writers were well ahead of this curve. The following is an exerpt from Snow Crash by Neal Stephenson in 1992:
Y.T.'s mom pulls up the new memo, checks the time, and starts reading it. The estimated reading time is 15.62 minutes. Later, when Marietta does her end-of-day statistical roundup, sitting in her private office at 9:00 P.M., she will see the name of each employee and next to it, the amount of time spent reading this memo, and her reaction, based on the time spent, will go something like this:
Less than 10 mm. Time for an employee conference and possible attitude counseling.
10-14 min. Keep an eye on this employee; may be developing slipshod attittide.
14-15.61 mm. Employee is an efficient worker, may sometimes miss important details.
Exactly 15.62 mm. Smartass. Needs attitude counseling.
15.63-16 mm. Asswipe. Not to be trusted.
16-18 mm. Employee is a methodical worker, may sometimes get hung up on minor details.
More than 18 mm. Check the security videotape, see just what this employee was up to (e.g., possible unauthorized restroom break).
Y.T.'s mom decides to spend between fourteen and fifteen minutes reading the memo. It's better for younger workers to spend too long, to show that they're careful, not cocky. It's better for older workers to go a little fast, to show good management potential. She's pushing forty. She scans through the memo, hitting the Page Down button at reasonably regular intervals, occasionally paging back up to pretend to reread some earlier section. The computer is going to notice all this. It approves of rereading. It's a small thing, but over a decade or so this stuff really shows up on your work-habits summary.
I don't wanna get into the business of defending Tesla. Probably they did overhype their technology but I have a peeve with one avenue of criticism.
That is Tesla shouldn't have called it "Autopilot" because it leads buyers to believe that they are buying a self-driving car.
If you buy an airplane these days chances it has an "Autopilot" as well. Any half-trained pilot knows:
1. Autopilots come with different levels of capability.
2. No current commercial autopilot will keep you from flying the plane into the ground. (Fighter jets have this.)
3. No current autopilot will help you if you run out of fuel. If you think it does you will probably die.
4. The autopilot will fly the plane into weather conditions beyond its capability and everybody aboard will die.
5. The autopilot will be perfectly happy flying you into another plane. When this happens you will die and take the other plane with you.
Yet in spite of all these deficiencies they still call it "Autopilot" and have for 50 years or more and I never heard of a class action suit screaming about misleading advertising. Why? Because pilots (and certainly their instructors) pay attention to the product specifications and assign responsibility to the pilot accordingly. They practice using it and don't just expect to punch a button and have everything taken care of.
I suppose this is too much for the flaccid minds of the American consumer to absorb. So we get lawsuits. Well if the product was actually defective then OK or if Telsa lied about what it could do (beyond calling it "Autopilot") then OK but if it just turns out that the purchasers had unrealistic expectations then I hope it gets thrown out of court.
Last few times I was in Asia I noted more and more street stalls selling bugs prepared various different ways. I am sure it is healthy but I am a long way from trying it.
If I were introducing such a product for state-side consumption I wouldn't present the whole animal like they do. It would have to be processed some way so as to emulate either a protein shake or maybe a cracker sandwich.
Given the economics I wouldn't be surprised to see such things here in the not too distant future.
Of the reported $1.2B, how much of that is because naive BC traders uploaded their private keys to some site that turned out to be not trustworthy?
I have used my Wells Fargo account online since before the bank itself actually had user-directed online services. I actually started by using "Check Free" via dial-up modem. I have never lost even one cent to theft (unless you count unreasonable bank fees -- and I had all those reversed.)
So is this a crypt-currency flaw or irresponsible/unprepared website operator problem?
My personal edification proceeded in the following increments:
1. There is a data base of undersea debris.
2. We have submersibles that can operate and take photos at 36,000' down. And for 30 years?
What I didn't learn is that there are artifacts down there. And regardless of the buoyancy/density of plastic material and how it changes under descent it would make sense it could be dragged down by something it was containing. I am sure you can find human made items down there from hundreds of year ago.
If Tesla is not getting paid because the accounting system can't keep up with their service profile, isn't some part of 90% savings due to the fact that the consumer isn't paying the bill? If so, how much of it?
Also China has 4x the population of the U.S. so to be at economic parity they would have to have 4x the mfg output. Not just "exceed" by some percentage.
I'm at a loss to think of any product that would require such immediate transit, except for transplant organs.
I also happen to believe the business case is weak for this but I can see there would clearly be more use for it than that.
* Much of our food travels a long distance before we eat it on slow transport, during which it degrades. You would get better food if most of it could be transported at airline speeds for rail prices.
* There are a lot of advantages for manufacturing for "Just in Time" delivery practices. In Japan many vendors must commit the specific hour of delivery and if they don't make it there is a penalty. There is a reason for that which would be too much to explain here but rest assured there is a strong commercial incentive. A cheap airline-speed service would save a ton of money in logistics for the vendors.
* The video -- which I do not find very convincing -- states that what is a novelty today will be expected tomorrow. Already online retailers led by Amazon are pushing for immediate delivery of almost anything. Next Day -> Same Day -> Same Hour. Consumer gratification is the key to their success. And you can do it much better if you have fewer and more remote distribution points as long as you have high-speed cargo between them.
* Have you seen the scale at which next-day parcel delivery services operate? Fed-Ex, UPS, USPS, DHL all spend fantastic amounts on air cargo operating their own fleets and still use charters and common carriers. (They make money doing it of course so that is why they do.) This proposal if taken at face value would cut their largest cost item to 20% of what it currently is. On this market alone of that is true it makes the business case on a no-brainer basis.
I could go on but there is clearly more to it than boutique business.
I understand where this is coming from. I have use SO for years and built a reputation, but just the other day I posted a careful question of the type I had been doing for years and got downvoted with an "does not show research" justification.
That was irritating. Then I got some answers and it got upvoted again and the answer(s) I got were very useful. As usual. So my latest went from -1 to 0 and the answer I got is now a 3. So the downvote was clearly either disregardable or not justified in the first place.
From repeated experiences like this and complaints I see in places like quora I have the following take on it:
1. There are a lot of jerks with high reputation on SO who just seem to delight on stomping on newbies or actually anyone they can just for the ego stroke.
2. There are a lot of low value posts on SO that actually do deserve to be downvoted simply because they are obviously some junior student programmer who doesn't understand their homework and are hoping that someone will do it for them. I can understand an reasonable veteran getting annoyed at this and responding by acting like a jerk even if they really aren't.
3. SO should implement a "Homework" tag and encourage new users to use it so their posts can be judged by a different standard and filtered out by those who don't want to see it. Or maybe just have a completely separate site for them which is more focused on mentoring than individual Q&A wiki-like articles.
Hostile or not, many of my programming question google searches end up with a SO link and I will continue to use the service. I wish I had the time to contribute more but I don't. At the end of the day I don't care if the guy who answers my question is a jerk or not but over they years SO has given me exposure to some pretty amazing people.
Then again, given what I read about how she handled classified information, Hilary should probably also have been charged. She would have been had she been "one of the little people".
Exactly what do you think she should have been charged with? None of the congressional investigations nor the FBI ever came up with something that could be referred for an indictment. Do you think they were covering for her because she was not one of the "little people"?
I'll grant you that many people want her charged. (lock her up!). But their desire (for whatever reason) is not a legal justification and it sure isn't due process.
Slashdot Mirror
Those Chinese hoaxers. They sure know their stuff don't they?
I won't be either the first or the last to point this out, but this looks like staged chaff to distract the feeble-minded American public away from the new psy-ops operations now gearing up for the next election cycle.
So easy to think: "Ha. If Trump was colluding with the Russians would he allow this!" (stupid libs.)
Obvious answer: No.
Correct answer: Not so fast.
They may have not gotten the $11M for themselves but if they really crashed out 9,000 desktops and 500 servers I would bet the overall damage is actually much more than $11M.
All the fundamentals of TSLA are screaming "we're going under." You guys are effectively running a pump and dump campaign at this point.
How do the fundamentals of TSLA compare to the fundamentals of Amazon from a few years back?
Is it some attempt to get Bloomberg to change its obvious stance?
That would be my guess and if I were running PR for Tesla that is what I would do.
My housekeeper's husband works at the plant (we live about 3 miles away) and he tells me it has become pretty regular for Musk to be spending overnight at the factory. Whatever else you might say about him he seems to be taking it seriously.
I think they can do this, but I bet the self-driving cards will be strictly limited to pre-computed routes.
Also I would expect the routes to be augmented to accommodate self-driving cars. And not on the freeway.
The thing about driving in Japan is that off the freeways and major roadways space becomes incredibly restricted. Taxis (which are all very good) will take you down neighborhood streets so narrow that you can reach the vending machines on the side of the road from inside the taxi.
For all of that they know how to follow rules there. If anyone can do this they can.
The autopilot in a plane also requires all pilots to be trained and aware of not just its abilities but also its well defined limitations. Are you suggesting Tesla drivers should all require a separate training and certification process to be able to use autopilot?
It is called a drivers license.
Not just Tesla drivers should have one.
It is simply astounding to me how many people are willing to show up on message boards and empathically declare and take the position that is perfectly OK and a statutory right for drivers to operate dangerous vehicles without knowing what they are doing. Yet here we are.
I would bet money that each and every Tesla driver that has wrecked their car has had it told to them both verbally and in writing about the limitations of the "Autopilot" feature. I would be surprised if Tesla even allows them to take delivery of the car without getting the customer to sign off on it. (Maybe they do I haven't checked -- can someone confirm?)
Question: I have a Jeep that was sold as an "All Terrain Vehicle." Well a cliff is "terrain" isn't it? If I drive my Jeep off a cliff what would you think about a lawsuit suing the manufacturer because the LIED about its capability?
An airplane's autopilot can crash the plane. Either by flying into the side of a mountain, running out of fuel, running into another plane, or into weather conditions the plane can't handle. All possible and even likely if the human pilot does not take responsibility.
And the collection of devices is still called "Autopilot" and have been for more than a half century. Nobody claims that the respective manufacturers have oversold their product and/or delivered defective product.
I mention this because I pointed out this obvious fact when this story popped up on a popular liberal political blog. I was roundly denounced as I was "blaming the victim." Then referred to breitbart.com where apparently that is considered acceptable. Stupid me for expecting better.
So I guess the noisy media circus that goes on any time Tesla is mentioned isn't going to abate anytime soon.
I have no interest in the politics of which web browser to use. I use Safari, Edge, Chrome, and Firefox all the same time.
Safari for business browsing and other stuff. It is integrated best with MacOS naturally.
Edge when I have to do Windows stuff (in a VM) and it turns out to be a pretty good PDF viewer and some other interesting features.
Firefox when I am doing personal surfing and media playing. That way I keep my personal browser history separate from my business browser history. If I decide to wipe my personal browser history then I can do it and I don't lose the business history.
Chrome is best for JS debugging. It is really nice to be able to set breakpoints, single step, and inspect runtime state from inside the WebStorm IDE. Both Typescript and Javascript.
On top of that when I develop a web page or web app I use all of them to see how it looks in each and whether all the JS stuff works the same. That's the least I can do for my work, right?
I don't time to dither in browser wars.
If you can't comply with your obligation to release your code ... because proprietary ... then don't fucking start by using open source in the first place.
If the SFC is approving of Tesla's efforts then I doubt you or me is going to find fault they didn't find. Granted that they were slow and they may have started off in bad faith (not proven) but that is not where they are now. The SFC text cites NVidia and Parrot ("upstream vendors") as the problem in this case and this issue rests with them just as much as Tesla.
As someone whose vehicle currently runs the specified version, I now happily await the hacking that my car is sure to get.
If you are blaming this on the disclosure requirement of GPL I think you are off base. One of the benefits of open source is that potential or actual exploits are discovered and fixed more quickly. So if getting your car hacked is your concerned you should be in favor of Tesla publishing all of it, not just the GPL portion.
This seems like a thread where I can expect the usual Tesla haters to use this topic to illustrate how corrupt, lawless, out-of-control, stupid or just plain evil (probably all) Tesla is.
So I thought I would just get ahead of all that and leave this here:
While our preference is that companies provide adequate CCS immediately, we realize that this can be a challenging process and recognize that Tesla has struggled for years with upstreams to yield proper CCS. We believe Tesla's new approach also has merit, because it allows the entire community to discuss and contribute in public and collaboratively assist Tesla in complying with the GPL.
I have struggled with this myself in the past. What do you do when your source code reveals an API to some licensed module which is not itself open source and you are under NDA not to reveal its details? I am sure Telsa's work involves a lot of that.
As usual, the best sci-fi writers were well ahead of this curve. The following is an exerpt from Snow Crash by Neal Stephenson in 1992:
Y.T.'s mom pulls up the new memo, checks the time, and starts reading it. The estimated reading time is 15.62 minutes. Later, when Marietta does her end-of-day statistical roundup, sitting in her private office at 9:00 P.M., she will see the name of each employee and next to it, the amount of time spent reading this memo, and her reaction, based on the time spent, will go something like this:
Less than 10 mm. Time for an employee conference and possible attitude counseling.
10-14 min. Keep an eye on this employee; may be developing slipshod attittide.
14-15.61 mm. Employee is an efficient worker, may sometimes miss important details.
Exactly 15.62 mm. Smartass. Needs attitude counseling.
15.63-16 mm. Asswipe. Not to be trusted.
16-18 mm. Employee is a methodical worker, may sometimes get hung up on minor details.
More than 18 mm. Check the security videotape, see just what this employee was up to (e.g., possible unauthorized restroom break).
Y.T.'s mom decides to spend between fourteen and fifteen minutes reading the memo. It's better for younger workers to spend too long, to show that they're careful, not cocky. It's better for older workers to go a little fast, to show good management potential. She's pushing forty. She scans through the memo, hitting the Page Down button at reasonably regular intervals, occasionally paging back up to pretend to reread some earlier section. The computer is going to notice all this. It approves of rereading. It's a small thing, but over a decade or so this stuff really shows up on your work-habits summary.
I don't wanna get into the business of defending Tesla. Probably they did overhype their technology but I have a peeve with one avenue of criticism.
That is Tesla shouldn't have called it "Autopilot" because it leads buyers to believe that they are buying a self-driving car.
If you buy an airplane these days chances it has an "Autopilot" as well. Any half-trained pilot knows:
1. Autopilots come with different levels of capability.
2. No current commercial autopilot will keep you from flying the plane into the ground. (Fighter jets have this.)
3. No current autopilot will help you if you run out of fuel. If you think it does you will probably die.
4. The autopilot will fly the plane into weather conditions beyond its capability and everybody aboard will die.
5. The autopilot will be perfectly happy flying you into another plane. When this happens you will die and take the other plane with you.
Yet in spite of all these deficiencies they still call it "Autopilot" and have for 50 years or more and I never heard of a class action suit screaming about misleading advertising. Why? Because pilots (and certainly their instructors) pay attention to the product specifications and assign responsibility to the pilot accordingly. They practice using it and don't just expect to punch a button and have everything taken care of.
I suppose this is too much for the flaccid minds of the American consumer to absorb. So we get lawsuits. Well if the product was actually defective then OK or if Telsa lied about what it could do (beyond calling it "Autopilot") then OK but if it just turns out that the purchasers had unrealistic expectations then I hope it gets thrown out of court.
Last few times I was in Asia I noted more and more street stalls selling bugs prepared various different ways. I am sure it is healthy but I am a long way from trying it.
If I were introducing such a product for state-side consumption I wouldn't present the whole animal like they do. It would have to be processed some way so as to emulate either a protein shake or maybe a cracker sandwich.
Given the economics I wouldn't be surprised to see such things here in the not too distant future.
Of the reported $1.2B, how much of that is because naive BC traders uploaded their private keys to some site that turned out to be not trustworthy?
I have used my Wells Fargo account online since before the bank itself actually had user-directed online services. I actually started by using "Check Free" via dial-up modem. I have never lost even one cent to theft (unless you count unreasonable bank fees -- and I had all those reversed.)
So is this a crypt-currency flaw or irresponsible/unprepared website operator problem?
My personal edification proceeded in the following increments:
1. There is a data base of undersea debris.
2. We have submersibles that can operate and take photos at 36,000' down. And for 30 years?
What I didn't learn is that there are artifacts down there. And regardless of the buoyancy/density of plastic material and how it changes under descent it would make sense it could be dragged down by something it was containing. I am sure you can find human made items down there from hundreds of year ago.
If Tesla is not getting paid because the accounting system can't keep up with their service profile, isn't some part of 90% savings due to the fact that the consumer isn't paying the bill? If so, how much of it?
Also China has 4x the population of the U.S. so to be at economic parity they would have to have 4x the mfg output. Not just "exceed" by some percentage.
These Chinese hoaxers are going too far.
I'm at a loss to think of any product that would require such immediate transit, except for transplant organs.
I also happen to believe the business case is weak for this but I can see there would clearly be more use for it than that.
* Much of our food travels a long distance before we eat it on slow transport, during which it degrades. You would get better food if most of it could be transported at airline speeds for rail prices.
* There are a lot of advantages for manufacturing for "Just in Time" delivery practices. In Japan many vendors must commit the specific hour of delivery and if they don't make it there is a penalty. There is a reason for that which would be too much to explain here but rest assured there is a strong commercial incentive. A cheap airline-speed service would save a ton of money in logistics for the vendors.
* The video -- which I do not find very convincing -- states that what is a novelty today will be expected tomorrow. Already online retailers led by Amazon are pushing for immediate delivery of almost anything. Next Day -> Same Day -> Same Hour. Consumer gratification is the key to their success. And you can do it much better if you have fewer and more remote distribution points as long as you have high-speed cargo between them.
* Have you seen the scale at which next-day parcel delivery services operate? Fed-Ex, UPS, USPS, DHL all spend fantastic amounts on air cargo operating their own fleets and still use charters and common carriers. (They make money doing it of course so that is why they do.) This proposal if taken at face value would cut their largest cost item to 20% of what it currently is. On this market alone of that is true it makes the business case on a no-brainer basis.
I could go on but there is clearly more to it than boutique business.
First thought: here come the Bitcoin flash traders.
If this hasn't happened multiple times at Facebook I would be surprised.
The NSA had this kind of goings on back in the Bush years. Nothing new.
But they are.
I understand where this is coming from. I have use SO for years and built a reputation, but just the other day I posted a careful question of the type I had been doing for years and got downvoted with an "does not show research" justification.
That was irritating. Then I got some answers and it got upvoted again and the answer(s) I got were very useful. As usual. So my latest went from -1 to 0 and the answer I got is now a 3. So the downvote was clearly either disregardable or not justified in the first place.
From repeated experiences like this and complaints I see in places like quora I have the following take on it:
1. There are a lot of jerks with high reputation on SO who just seem to delight on stomping on newbies or actually anyone they can just for the ego stroke.
2. There are a lot of low value posts on SO that actually do deserve to be downvoted simply because they are obviously some junior student programmer who doesn't understand their homework and are hoping that someone will do it for them. I can understand an reasonable veteran getting annoyed at this and responding by acting like a jerk even if they really aren't.
3. SO should implement a "Homework" tag and encourage new users to use it so their posts can be judged by a different standard and filtered out by those who don't want to see it. Or maybe just have a completely separate site for them which is more focused on mentoring than individual Q&A wiki-like articles.
Hostile or not, many of my programming question google searches end up with a SO link and I will continue to use the service. I wish I had the time to contribute more but I don't. At the end of the day I don't care if the guy who answers my question is a jerk or not but over they years SO has given me exposure to some pretty amazing people.
Then again, given what I read about how she handled classified information, Hilary should probably also have been charged. She would have been had she been "one of the little people".
Exactly what do you think she should have been charged with? None of the congressional investigations nor the FBI ever came up with something that could be referred for an indictment. Do you think they were covering for her because she was not one of the "little people"?
I'll grant you that many people want her charged. (lock her up!). But their desire (for whatever reason) is not a legal justification and it sure isn't due process.