The sensible programmer will code up some kind of visual cue that a request has been submitted. As data is received back in chunks (You do know asyncronous http gives you partial updates, right?), this can be reflected with an update to that visual cue. You just have to do it yourself rather than use the (single) bar provided by the browser).
Now, the only thing AJAX brings to the user experience is the ability to allow the user to continue what they are doing (non-user-experience benefits are low data compared to full page refresh, for example, but that's just css/xslt really!). This ability to work on is therefore what must be leveraged in order to make AJAX worthwhile. If you don't leverage that, you don't need an AJAX solution!
My current application allows the user to move objects around a page (changing table ordering, div object positions etc) while the changes are mirrored back to the session bean on the server and persisted without interrupting them, thus changes can be immediately seen and acted upon by other users without repeated page refreshes. Think Gantt chart style project planning.
I think your complaint is basically "Wah, I have to handle the progress bar myself!". Not a problem;-)
Indeed, and after researching the effects, I stopped smoking roll-ups and started using big bong that I bought in Egypt.
The weird thing is, once I broke the physical habit of making and smoking, I stopped getting around to loading the bong even though I enjoyed it. I haven't smoked in months.
Justin.
Re:It is a matter of equilibrium
on
Drink Decaf and Die
·
· Score: 4, Insightful
Like I keep pointing out to people who say "I read today that too much X will kill you":
Yes of course it fucking will! That's what *too* fucking *much* means!
Find out where 'too much' and 'too little' are for everything, and get on with enjoying life.
Understood. The (secondary) point I was making is that it is getting worse without the speed limit changing or anything - just public perception, and that that needs to be reversed. This could justify the scheme going national for me.
Yeah, cos the US would never dream of herding dissenting voices out of the way of, say, the president, so that only the assenting voices could be heard. I must've dreamed about those 'Free Speech Zones*'!!!
Justin.
*First time I have ever thought multiple exclamation marks was justified.
It's not that the speed limit has changed, it's public perception of what speed it is 'acceptable' to do in a thirty zone. Year on year, the speed of vehicles passing my place has increased since I've been there. As it got louder, I added double glazing and then noise reduction materials in the loft for the noise coming through the roof, and each has only brought the noise back to what it originally was. It's amazing how noise penetrates. I don't think there's much else I can do and the cars (at night in the main) are still going past faster and faster except when the cops do speed/vehicle checks. It's a thirty zone, but it's got great visibility so the motorbikes do up to sixty or seventy.
As a result I'd love to see this system implemented, cos creeping lack of consideration for others is still lack of consideration! I don't think for a minute that those who speed in urban areas are doing because they don't give a shit, only because their focus is on 'safe' speeds, not considerate speeds.
The 'cheaper housing' argument hardly applies as I don't get a refund from the people I purchased it from as the noise gets louder!;-) (Whether or not you or anyone else can afford a mortgage is completely irrelevent.)
That is very debatable. The speed limits here in the UK are now so absurd in many places that the vast majority of motorists exceed the limit, yet no accidents ever result (literally; speed limits have been dropped on roads that haven't had even a minor injury accident in a decade).
That's because thousands and thousands of 30 and 40 limits aren't there for safety, they're there for noise reasons.
I live next to an arterial road in Southampton and the noise level of the cars doing 45 is a fuck's sight higher than that of the few doing thirty.
Basically, remember that safety is not the whole picture when setting speed limits.
When we had an eclipse here in 1999, the SAP team at my then contract stuck a sheet of paper up to the window and put a literal pin-hole in it. They were then trying to find the tiny, tiny projection of the sun on the floor. When I pointed out that all the holes in the ends of the blinds were casting little crescent shaped lit patches on the floor, they were amazed. Typical SAPpers, doing it wrong, I thought.
People in the third world don't have access to Rubidium and such. Chipsets are not things that they can play with. On the other hand, they can think as well as any other set of humans... so they can play with software.
I did exactly as you describe with my first nephew when he was three and a bit, with greyscale on a Psion 5 with him sitting on my lap using the stylus. Then, when he was about six, I showed him a word processor (prolly WordPad) and he played with that. I have done the same with the other niblings as they have turned up and will do the same with my own when they are old enough.
You are absolutely correct in everything you say.
J.
Re:Offtopic?!? Hey Mods, B-O-O-K that spells book!
on
A Flu Pandemic?
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· Score: 1
I/think/ I see your point, but if it's what I think you intend, it's really stretching it to match the murder of JC and the suicide of Anthony (which doesn't even happen till the next play) to the twin suicides of Romeo and Juliet. I'd also be a bit leery of matching Pompey vs Caesar to Monagues vs Capulets.
King Lear I'm not familiar enough with to comment.
Wouldn't it be hilariously ironic if you now succumbed to all of the above?;-)
Justin.
Re:Offtopic?!? Hey Mods, B-O-O-K that spells book!
on
A Flu Pandemic?
·
· Score: 1
Just for reference, try writing a plot synopsis of The Shining, Misery and Cujo. Replace names with letters and don't be specific about methods of violence or threats of violence. See what you get.
I fully expect a new law that makes USB ports on public computers illegal.
I really would hope to see the opposite... The PC has no hard drive and if you want writeable media you can burn a disk, read/write you need a stick. The facility can offer you a read-only image on loan to boot or you can bring your own if, say, you need a specific app.
Spamming type activities should be prevented by upstream limits or port blocking (dropped by arrangement only - for large file transfer perhaps), and any 'nasty stuff' would then have to be carried around by the perp.
Slashdot Mirror
The sensible programmer will code up some kind of visual cue that a request has been submitted. As data is received back in chunks (You do know asyncronous http gives you partial updates, right?), this can be reflected with an update to that visual cue. You just have to do it yourself rather than use the (single) bar provided by the browser).
;-)
Now, the only thing AJAX brings to the user experience is the ability to allow the user to continue what they are doing (non-user-experience benefits are low data compared to full page refresh, for example, but that's just css/xslt really!). This ability to work on is therefore what must be leveraged in order to make AJAX worthwhile. If you don't leverage that, you don't need an AJAX solution!
My current application allows the user to move objects around a page (changing table ordering, div object positions etc) while the changes are mirrored back to the session bean on the server and persisted without interrupting them, thus changes can be immediately seen and acted upon by other users without repeated page refreshes. Think Gantt chart style project planning.
I think your complaint is basically "Wah, I have to handle the progress bar myself!". Not a problem
Justin.
Phew... Cosby must be worried: is he richer than he is black, or blacker than he is rich?!
Justin.
Could I just point out it's 'grammar'. not 'grammer'...!
The last time I heard this line was in the loos at The Hobbit pub in Southampton. Keith nearly pissed on me doing the actions.
Funny though.
J.
Justin.
Why didn't I read /. in 1979? I lost two tooth caps that way!
J.
re using fuck: No, I'm just British!
;-)
Mind you, it ties in with the phrase 'karma whore' quite nicely
In order to create make copy-expiry mp3s tbey will prolly need to hash the audio with a key for comparison. That'll be what Lame is used for.
J.
Indeed, and after researching the effects, I stopped smoking roll-ups and started using big bong that I bought in Egypt.
The weird thing is, once I broke the physical habit of making and smoking, I stopped getting around to loading the bong even though I enjoyed it. I haven't smoked in months.
Justin.
Like I keep pointing out to people who say "I read today that too much X will kill you":
Yes of course it fucking will! That's what *too* fucking *much* means!
Find out where 'too much' and 'too little' are for everything, and get on with enjoying life.
Justin.
An excellent list to which I would add only one comment:
Do not let your coders make assumptions. If the spec is unclear they *must* go back to the business analyst and get it make clear.
J.
So if I tell them it's a row about the storing of data, that'll help?
And for my next trick, the gerundive:
They may tell me to take a running jump!
<rimshot>
Justin.
In many ways it's better. Bullet numbering works better, tables are more intuitive, and there's no bastard fucking paperclip!
J.
Understood. The (secondary) point I was making is that it is getting worse without the speed limit changing or anything - just public perception, and that that needs to be reversed. This could justify the scheme going national for me.
J.
Justin.
*First time I have ever thought multiple exclamation marks was justified.
It's not that the speed limit has changed, it's public perception of what speed it is 'acceptable' to do in a thirty zone. Year on year, the speed of vehicles passing my place has increased since I've been there. As it got louder, I added double glazing and then noise reduction materials in the loft for the noise coming through the roof, and each has only brought the noise back to what it originally was. It's amazing how noise penetrates. I don't think there's much else I can do and the cars (at night in the main) are still going past faster and faster except when the cops do speed/vehicle checks. It's a thirty zone, but it's got great visibility so the motorbikes do up to sixty or seventy.
;-) (Whether or not you or anyone else can afford a mortgage is completely irrelevent.)
As a result I'd love to see this system implemented, cos creeping lack of consideration for others is still lack of consideration! I don't think for a minute that those who speed in urban areas are doing because they don't give a shit, only because their focus is on 'safe' speeds, not considerate speeds.
The 'cheaper housing' argument hardly applies as I don't get a refund from the people I purchased it from as the noise gets louder!
Justin.
God help the poor, overly-literal nerds, as evolution clearly hasn't.
Justin.
That's because thousands and thousands of 30 and 40 limits aren't there for safety, they're there for noise reasons.
I live next to an arterial road in Southampton and the noise level of the cars doing 45 is a fuck's sight higher than that of the few doing thirty.
Basically, remember that safety is not the whole picture when setting speed limits.
Justin.
When we had an eclipse here in 1999, the SAP team at my then contract stuck a sheet of paper up to the window and put a literal pin-hole in it. They were then trying to find the tiny, tiny projection of the sun on the floor. When I pointed out that all the holes in the ends of the blinds were casting little crescent shaped lit patches on the floor, they were amazed. Typical SAPpers, doing it wrong, I thought.
Justin.
People in the third world don't have access to Rubidium and such. Chipsets are not things that they can play with. On the other hand, they can think as well as any other set of humans... so they can play with software.
Justin.
I did exactly as you describe with my first nephew when he was three and a bit, with greyscale on a Psion 5 with him sitting on my lap using the stylus. Then, when he was about six, I showed him a word processor (prolly WordPad) and he played with that. I have done the same with the other niblings as they have turned up and will do the same with my own when they are old enough.
You are absolutely correct in everything you say.
J.
I /think/ I see your point, but if it's what I think you intend, it's really stretching it to match the murder of JC and the suicide of Anthony (which doesn't even happen till the next play) to the twin suicides of Romeo and Juliet. I'd also be a bit leery of matching Pompey vs Caesar to Monagues vs Capulets.
King Lear I'm not familiar enough with to comment.
Justin.
Wouldn't it be hilariously ironic if you now succumbed to all of the above? ;-)
Justin.
Just for reference, try writing a plot synopsis of The Shining, Misery and Cujo. Replace names with letters and don't be specific about methods of violence or threats of violence. See what you get.
;-)
Clue: you will only need one piece of paper
Justin.
I really would hope to see the opposite... The PC has no hard drive and if you want writeable media you can burn a disk, read/write you need a stick. The facility can offer you a read-only image on loan to boot or you can bring your own if, say, you need a specific app.
Spamming type activities should be prevented by upstream limits or port blocking (dropped by arrangement only - for large file transfer perhaps), and any 'nasty stuff' would then have to be carried around by the perp.
Justin.