"The first occurence of disobedience to God would be the source of original sin, it matters little how humanity came into being."
Ok, but if this disobedience isn't performed by the first humans (a notion that doesn't make sense from an evolutionary viewpoint) then they may well not have been ancestors of mine (or yours) and their sin wouldn't have passed to me or you. It's really a stretch in my opinion to say I'm responsible for my ancestor's sins in the first place, let alone those I'm not even related to.
"Why not?" Because if you step back and look at the entire tree of life you will notice that we are just one vanishingly tiny branch. We as a species are clearly not the center of any plan from an evolutionary view point. Before you repeat your statement "we'd have no way of knowing his motives or methods." ask yourself why that is? Why can't would his motives or methods be unknowable?
Here's another problem evolution poses from christian mythology. If we are just the product of random evolutionary processes there is no source for original sin. We didn't evolve for one purpose and then choose to go a different way. We just are the way we evolved. There isn't any point in the evolutionary cycle where a fall from grace happens. Here's the punch line: Without a garden of eden style "fall from grace" Jesus died for nothing.
The only people who think christian mythology and evolution are compatible are those who have not thought very hard about either.
The controversy comes from the shift of our significance in creation given by an evolutionary view.
It's well and good to say that evolution was just gods tool of choice but it depends on what kind of god you want to have. If evolution is his thing than we can't be at the center of any master plan. We are just one vanishingly small branch on a huge tree of life and creation was clearly not "created" for us. Evolution certainly isn't going to stop with us. Maybe there is a god that set it all in motion and is sitting back watching it all play out. That doesn't sound like the christian god. The christian (and all other monotheistic deities) are much more hands on.
Don't they teach about the scientific method in school anymore? "I don't know, yet" is a perfectly reasonable scientific answer to a question that has testable features. The creator creating creators on and on has no testable features so it CAN'T be answered. A problem that is very very hard to answer is still MUCH better than one that is impossible to answer.
He told you his mind was closed. People like that can be asked questions about what makes more sense or what is more reasonable and they wont budge. The club of faith trumps the heart of reason every time.
True enough. But the later is not the christian god. According to christian mythology he's touched it plenty, just not recently. If the later is true we can't be the focal point of some great master plan. All of this isn't FOR us. It's not like evolution is going to stop with us after all.
The controversy comes from the shift of our significance in creation given by an evolutionary view.
It's well and good to say that evolution was just gods tool of choice but it depends on what kind of god you want to have. If evolution is his thing than we can't be at the center of any master plan. We are just one vanishingly small branch on a huge tree of life and creation was clearly not "created" for us. Evolution certainly isn't going to stop with us. Maybe there is a god that set it all in motion and is sitting back watching it all play out. That doesn't sound like the christian god. The christian (and all other monotheistic deities) are much more hands on.
Ever walk around the Redmond campus? Lots and lots of people with long hair and sandals. I've not been to the Apple campus but I'd wager it's about the same except for the really faithful who wear only black turtle necks.
Ok, but that does not address the issue. Why are the libraries not available? Why can't I go to Apple and get the libraries? Why are vendors not able to distribute these needed libraries? What is the earliest version of OSX that Apple even supports?
Sounds good. Problem with the case at hand is that the early versions of OSX did not work let alone work right. Before you mod me down tell why so many applications specify "10.2.8 and up only" or some such. What happened to 10.0.x and 10.1.x?
Oh WOW. A friend of a friend of some guy you spoke with said this? Wow that must be true then. You are SO in the loop! Except that it isn't true. You can install the SATA drivers from USB OR CD.
"If the government becomes capable of making it impossible to organize an armed revolt the Constitution has pretty much failed."
Too late than by a long shot. There is no way an organized armed revolt would even come close to success. The second amendment doesn't allow me to own a fully loaded stealth bomber. Even then it wouldn't be nearly enough. The second amendment out lived it's intended usefulness a long time ago.
What the fuck are we for? Well, as a conservative I am for getting back to real conservative values. These guys that are in there now are not speaking to the base and are leading us all in a bad direction. Real Conservatives are for fiscal responsibility. Real Conservatives are in favor of strengthening state's rights. Real Conservatives know (or used to know) that "Nation building" is extremely difficult, expensive and not something we should do lightly or without adequate planning.
As far as I can tell neo-Con just means "not conservative but we'll trick people into thinking we are".
Who cares what the Dems do. Let them chase their tail. We need to get our own party back first.
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That is true. I'm not familiar with the Judaism or Islamic take on original sin. I'll take your word for it that they don't apply to me :)
"The first occurence of disobedience to God would be the source of original sin, it matters little how humanity came into being."
Ok, but if this disobedience isn't performed by the first humans (a notion that doesn't make sense from an evolutionary viewpoint) then they may well not have been ancestors of mine (or yours) and their sin wouldn't have passed to me or you. It's really a stretch in my opinion to say I'm responsible for my ancestor's sins in the first place, let alone those I'm not even related to.
"Why not?"
Because if you step back and look at the entire tree of life you will notice that we are just one vanishingly tiny branch. We as a species are clearly not the center of any plan from an evolutionary view point. Before you repeat your statement "we'd have no way of knowing his motives or methods." ask yourself why that is? Why can't would his motives or methods be unknowable?
Here's another problem evolution poses from christian mythology. If we are just the product of random evolutionary processes there is no source for original sin. We didn't evolve for one purpose and then choose to go a different way. We just are the way we evolved. There isn't any point in the evolutionary cycle where a fall from grace happens.
Here's the punch line:
Without a garden of eden style "fall from grace" Jesus died for nothing.
The only people who think christian mythology and evolution are compatible are those who have not thought very hard about either.
The controversy comes from the shift of our significance in creation given by an evolutionary view.
It's well and good to say that evolution was just gods tool of choice but it depends on what kind of god you want to have.
If evolution is his thing than we can't be at the center of any master plan. We are just one vanishingly small branch on a huge tree of life and creation was clearly not "created" for us. Evolution certainly isn't going to stop with us.
Maybe there is a god that set it all in motion and is sitting back watching it all play out. That doesn't sound like the christian god. The christian (and all other monotheistic deities) are much more hands on.
Don't they teach about the scientific method in school anymore?
"I don't know, yet" is a perfectly reasonable scientific answer to a question that has testable features. The creator creating creators on and on has no testable features so it CAN'T be answered.
A problem that is very very hard to answer is still MUCH better than one that is impossible to answer.
He told you his mind was closed. People like that can be asked questions about what makes more sense or what is more reasonable and they wont budge. The club of faith trumps the heart of reason every time.
True enough. But the later is not the christian god. According to christian mythology he's touched it plenty, just not recently.
If the later is true we can't be the focal point of some great master plan. All of this isn't FOR us. It's not like evolution is going to stop with us after all.
The controversy comes from the shift of our significance in creation given by an evolutionary view.
It's well and good to say that evolution was just gods tool of choice but it depends on what kind of god you want to have.
If evolution is his thing than we can't be at the center of any master plan. We are just one vanishingly small branch on a huge tree of life and creation was clearly not "created" for us. Evolution certainly isn't going to stop with us.
Maybe there is a god that set it all in motion and is sitting back watching it all play out. That doesn't sound like the christian god. The christian (and all other monotheistic deities) are much more hands on.
Here's where you saw that:
http://www.osronline.com/article.cfm?article=461
How hard could that really be (with a bit of training)?
Circus performers do more incredible things than runing along a fence.
I wish I had a mod point. Funniest post I've read on /. in a long while.
Albert Einstein divorced his wife and married his first cousin.
Garfield, Family Circus and old Peanuts reruns are still printed for people like you I guess. I always wondered who read them.
Where do these neutrinos come from?
What makes you think the bottle was not opened? It's not like a cap can't be put back on or anything.
If you've seen one neutrino detector in the middle of nowhere and half mile under ground, you've seen em all.
Ever walk around the Redmond campus? Lots and lots of people with long hair and sandals. I've not been to the Apple campus but I'd wager it's about the same except for the really faithful who wear only black turtle necks.
Ok, but that does not address the issue. Why are the libraries not available? Why can't I go to Apple and get the libraries? Why are vendors not able to distribute these needed libraries?
What is the earliest version of OSX that Apple even supports?
Sounds good. Problem with the case at hand is that the early versions of OSX did not work let alone work right.
Before you mod me down tell why so many applications specify "10.2.8 and up only" or some such. What happened to 10.0.x and 10.1.x?
Deleting files or destroying property?
Maybe he should have just destroyed the entire drive and returned the laptop driveless.
Oh WOW. A friend of a friend of some guy you spoke with said this? Wow that must be true then. You are SO in the loop!
Except that it isn't true. You can install the SATA drivers from USB OR CD.
"If the government becomes capable of making it impossible to organize an armed revolt the Constitution has pretty much failed."
Too late than by a long shot. There is no way an organized armed revolt would even come close to success. The second amendment doesn't allow me to own a fully loaded stealth bomber. Even then it wouldn't be nearly enough. The second amendment out lived it's intended usefulness a long time ago.
For two months? If it were coming from space wouldn't it fall in a ring around the globe as the earth rotates?
What the fuck are we for? Well, as a conservative I am for getting back to real conservative values. These guys that are in there now are not speaking to the base and are leading us all in a bad direction.
Real Conservatives are for fiscal responsibility.
Real Conservatives are in favor of strengthening state's rights.
Real Conservatives know (or used to know) that "Nation building" is extremely difficult, expensive and not something we should do lightly or without adequate planning.
As far as I can tell neo-Con just means "not conservative but we'll trick people into thinking we are".
Who cares what the Dems do. Let them chase their tail. We need to get our own party back first.
"If you want the things you mentioned above, stick with the Windows box you have now and don't waste money on the upgrade."
Or I can get both by getting Vista. It's also a LOT less $$$ than getting a new mac and replacements for all the apps I need.