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Neutrino Mass Confirmed
biohack writes "BBC News reports that results from the MINOS experiment have confirmed that neutrinos have mass. To look for neutrino oscillations, scientists created muon neutrinos in a particle accelerator at the Fermi National Accelerator Laboratory (Fermilab). After passing through a particle detector at Fermilab, a high intensity beam of neutrinos travelled to another particle detector 724km (450 miles) away in a disused mine in Soudan, US. The set up established that fewer particles were being detected at the Soudan site than had been sent from Fermilab, which confirmed that some neutrinos changed their flavor on the way - an effect called neutrino flavor oscillation, which requires them to have mass. 'To put it simply, if they are heavy, it means that there is a lot more mass in the Universe than we thought there was,' said Professor Jenny Thomas from University College London."
I've actually seen the detector at the Soudan Mine. Pretty impressive. Kinda hard to get to (300 mile drive into the middle of nowhere followed by a half mile trip underground).
Thats is sloppy on the BBC's part, they should have put the State in there. In this case it is Minnesota.
e rground_mine/physicslab.html
http://www.dnr.state.mn.us/state_parks/soudan_und
You know you are a serious geek when you read the headline and say 'YES!' out loud.
Would slashdot also be interested in posting my own confirmations that light has a finite speed?
When things get complex, multiply by the complex conjugate.
Minos? Muons? Soudan? They're just making stuff up! This article just reeks of April Fools!! /Peter Griffin Voice
"I like to lick butts!" by MobileTatsu-NJG (#32700246) (Score:5, Informative)
. . . if it's matter, isn't it required by definition to have mass?
The Christian Right is Neither (Christian nor right). See: Matthew 23, Matthew 25, Ezekiel 16:48-50
SNO Detector.
This was proven in the late 90's in a Japanese lab. The experiment was similar and involved muon neutrinos changing flavors to electron neutrinos in a large particle accelerator. The real question is how many eV are the combined masses of the three flavors? The answer to that question portends much for the state of the universe.
Making you think you're crazy is a billion dollar industry.
New evidence has confirmed that the Universe does in fact have mass. Science advisor for the Bush administration was quick to point out that this is a theory and there was still no hard evidence. "The Bible makes no mention of the Universe having mass so we'll have to wait until a method is devised for weighing the Universe. We don't want any more psedoscience like that Darwin character was spreading."
To me, what seems more significant about it is that knowing about neutrino masses and oscillations makes neutrino astronomy viable. For instance, we can find out directly about the interior of the sun, which is something we just can't do with electromagnetic or gravitational fields.
Find free books.
I have something kinda off topic but its "heavy" as well. Ever seen a pepsi with a wire in it?
Thats right! A stainless steel wire in an old unopened pepsi. Can we find out how that happened? If you want to see it here it is.. http://www.regardingspace.com.wireinpepsi.jpg/ Happy April 1. The image is legit though.
Could these particles having mass explain the "missing matter" that scientists formerly attributed to dark matter? I wonder what other particles are there taking up space that we never thought had mass, either.
today is spelling optional day.
But what inquiring minds want to know is what does it taste like?
An Education is the Font of All Liberty
Growning up in Minnesota, we always passed the soudan mine on the way to our cabin and would stop there now and then to go on the tours they have of the mine. I remember years ago wondering why in the hell there were books in the gift shop on neutrinos. It wasen't untill much later I learned of the detector and the scientific work going on at the mine. I've really wanted to go back since then, because i hear they have tours of the scientific area now. Ignoring the particle detection work there, i would still suggest anyone passing by there to take the tour of mine itself, its quite incredible when you're half a mile below the ground and they shut off all the lights...
this is so old. I read this on digg in 1998
You know how impressionable neutrinos are.. always changing their flavor to match the latest fads.. and now call them massive?!
They'll decay in no time...
Although the article implies that the Standard Model will have to be revised as a result of this experiment, this result does not really change the Standard Model all that much. The theoretical method used to establish neutrino mass, ie- that neutrino oscillations imply neutrino mass, is itself a Standard Model prediction. Rather the results fixes some of the unbound parameters of the theory. In other words, the arguments are better known now, but the method signatures remian the same.
OMG PO...damn. I'm too late.
Ride the skies
Can I get my ice cream with neutrino flavor oscillations?
Isnt that like chocolate with gummi bears?
We'll have to wait and see, but for anyone who would like more information, Fermilab's website has an article about the discovery.
There is a large bit of hand waving here. Why are neutrino oscillations and neutrino mass inseparable?
I hate when people act as if a complicated issue is simply true. So, as a public service to the Slashdot community:
Here is a site that attempts to explain it.
My quantum physics knowledge isn't teriffic. Any particle physicists know of a better source?
To give you a feeling for how much this represents, it's about the same as the hit rate of April Fools joke on slashdot. So it's pretty small, but you got to have faith people!
No explanations needed here, you all now how long a day can be by now.
Yes, neutrinos are important in understanding the interior of the sun. They are not the only method, however, as "holes" do occur through which we can see very limited snapshots of segments of the interior. They are also not perfect, as less than half of the expected number of neutrinos ever reach the Earth, presumably through changes in flavour or through being absorbed.
Neutrinos are also very important in understanding the mechanics of radioactive decay. Remember, the entire premise from which neutrinos came from was that decay needed a massless particle that could carry with it rotational momentum. Since neutrinos have M amount of mass, then the sum of all other actual and effective masses being emitted must be reduced by M, for the calculations to still balance out.
(You're also much more restricted in the energy a neutrino can have, as you must now not only balance momentum but also kinetic energy. For things to equal out, this will place significant constraints on the state of a neutrino.)
All in all, this sort of work generally has massive repercussions and it will only be truly known what significance the mass has when ALL physical systems involving neutrinos have been adjusted accordingly. Again, the magnitude of the mass is totally unimportant. What matters is whether it breaks an existing model (eg: by violating the requirement for quantized states) or whether it eliminates any variables or constants (because they are no longer needed).
I am a great proponent of science, but I am getting tired of the complacency that has slowly been creeping in - the Victorian illusion that we are approaching the end of knowledge. If neutrinos having mass throws huge chunks of the physics community into disarray, I believe it will be a Good Thing and about time. We need something that will cause a major headache and a revolution in thinking.
It's a small world and it smells funny; I'd buy another if it wasn't for the money; Take back what I paid (SoM)
How is this physics story about gay ponies? (tags)
Calculations of the flux due to the sun shows that 60 billion neutrinos pass thru your thumbnail every second. So that's the tingling sensation.
If Slashdot were chemistry it would look like this:Cadaverine
We need to put you in for a job at the NYTimes.
Correct Horse Battery Staple: 72 bits of entropy. Enter "Correct H" into google. When it generates the phrase, that's
I can feel myself becoming swiss cheese as the nutrinos zoom through me. I felt so much better before they had mass.
GENERATION 27: The first time you see this, copy it into your sig on any forum and add 1 to the generation.
Quote from the Slashdot story: "The set up established that fewer particles were being detected at the Soudan site than had been sent from Fermilab, which confirmed that some neutrinos changed their flavor on the way ..."
Or, some of the neutrinos stopped along the way to have a beer.
Actually, it confirmed nothing except that fewer neutrinos were detected. It is utterly foolish to think that particle physics is enough understood that accurate guesses can be made.
Another topic, but still about this Slashdot story: How is this slashdot story about "[+] ponies, straight, gay, science, physics (tagging beta)".
How do Slashdot editors make connections between April Fool's Day and being gay? Is that an indication of poor social skills?
--
Before, Saddam got Iraq oil profits & paid part to kill Iraqis. Now a few Americans share Iraq oil profits, & U.S. citizens pay to kill Iraqis. Improvement?
Not sure that parent's explanation is free from logical fallacies, but it's an interesting post...
The MINOS experiment will have its annual open house on May 6th 2006. Don't remember if it is free -- maybe it is. But tour only of the physics lab.
The summer tourist season starts after labor day, and some, but not all, tours include the physics tour in addition to the historical mining tour.
"The White House is not an intelligence-gathering agency," -- Scott McClellan, Whitehouse spokesman.
I really should have payed more attention in Quantum class And English.
"The White House is not an intelligence-gathering agency," -- Scott McClellan, Whitehouse spokesman.
I joined the experiment in 1995 soon after the collaboration came together and created the proposal. In that time I've written simulation ("Monte Carlo"), reconstruction and framework code for the experiment. It's been a pretty exciting 10 years. The push to get everything together this last month has been exhausting. But after presenting the results on Thursday do we physicists take a well deserved break and party like 1999? Well, noooo. We spend Friday, Saturday and Sunday IN MEETINGS! Today (Saturday) we were there from 8:30am to 7:00pm discussing how further to proceed. We've got 50% more data "in the can" that we didn't yet present (cross checks to perform, fits to perform). Plus plans for more data taking after the accelerator comes up again in June. Plus other physics results we're still trying to extract. Plus more improved simulations to do in order to yield improved limits. Such is the life of a physicist.
is this an April fools joke I'm too dumb to understand?
Search for links in the news. Though I hate Fox News in general, I have to say they have the best title for their copy: Physicists Lose Some Neutrinos, Gain Some Information.
If you had been paying attention, you'd know that Nintendos pass through everything!
Whoever stated that signature sizes should be limited to one hundred and twenty characters can just go ahead and kiss my
"....it means that there is a lot more mass in the Universe than we thought there was,'
Isn't that some kind of tautology? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tautology
I mean how can you determine a finite quantity in an infinite universe?
The collective mass of an infinite universe cannot be known.
Don't be apathetic. Procrastinate!
Neutrinos have mass? I didn't even know they were Catholic!
One thing that drives me NUTS is that the physicists are always talking about neutrinos only being all or part of the explanation of the "dark matter" mass of the universe if they have rest mass - and this ends up in the media as if only the rest mass has gravitation.
ALL mass has gravitation - both rest mass and the mass equivalent of all the other forms of energy (including momentum) that go into the creation of the particle. So neutrinos have the same damned mass and gravitation whether they have rest mass or not.
Now if the issue is that they can't explain the galactic spin anomalies if they don't have rest mass because if they have none they fly away at the c and if they have some part of them get decellerated and stick around in clouds, somebody should bloody well SAY so.
Bantam Dominique roosters crow a four-note song. Once you've heard it as "Happy BIRTHday" you can't NOT hear it that way
This may be one of the last discoveries at Fermilab. As it stands now, Fermilab, SLAC, and Brookhaven's future is in severe doubt.
i cleID=00080A6A-C9C7-1419-89C783414B7F0101&colID=2
http://www.sciam.com/article.cfm?chanID=sa006&art
"To those who are overly cautious, everything is impossible. "
"Some people say the universe is governed by universal laws. Others say it is but a joke of the Elder Gods.
"I think that part of education is to expose people to different schools of thought." someone said. "You're asking me whether or not people ought to be exposed to different ideas, the answer is yes."
--- Attorneys Assisting Citizen-Soldiers & Families -
"'To put it simply, if they are heavy, it means that there is a lot more mass in the Universe than we thought there was,' said Professor Jenny Thomas from University College London." Could they be the ones responsible for the effects assumed to be caused by Dark matter?
I saw the Neutrinos years ago on Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles, and there was ample evidence in the cartoon suggesting that they had mass.
Neutrino? What, Is that like the new Pentium or something?
"To put it simply, if they are heavy, it means that there is a lot more mass in the Universe than we thought there was..."
So what this means is that people are really a lot fatter than what they think they are.
How I am a going to explain to my wife tomorrow when I say "Yes" to her saying "Am I fatter today?" - I'll pack my bags now and save myself some time. ummm, I may want to book a room too!
Never try to beat a professional at his own game!
Heim came up with these predictions more than 20 years ago and up until recently there was mutch doubt whether Neutrinos even had mass...
n d_forces
...
...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heim_theory#Matter_a
There are some empirical predictions of Heim theory which can in principle be experimentally verified, but this has not been achieved to date. These include
* Predictions for the masses of neutrinos, and
The mass for the neutron has been predicted by the formula a decade before experimental data existed.
Bosons don't necessarily carry forces; in fact not all atoms are fermions. For example, the Helium-4 and Carbon-12 nuclei is a boson. See wikipedia. Bosons are best defined as having integer spin and being capable of sharing the same quantum state while fermions have half-integer spin and obey the Pauil Exclusion Principle (cannot share the same quantum state). A composite particle of an even number of fermions (2 protons + 2 neutrons) is a boson (helium nucleus) but an odd number of fermions is always a fermion.
I also believe that physicists have determined that the electron neutrino has a mass of about 1meV-1eV (from a slide I saw in lecture a couple days ago).
In addition, physicists divide fermions into quarks and leptons, which are supersets of the elementary particles that make up nucleons and electrons.
A recent APS study (see the main report in particular) has tagged determining the absolute mass of the neutrino as amongst the highest priorities in the field. Another big mystery is to determine if the neutrino is it's own antiparticle (i.e. if it is of a Dirac or Majorana character). There is an interesting kind of decay known as "neutrinoless double beta decay" that only proceeds if the neutrino is its own antiparticle. This decay has never been observed (some members of the Heidelberg-Moscow experiment may disagree with me), but there is an active community currently looking for it in different candidate isotopes of Ge, Xe, Mo, and Te. The rate of this decay is directly proportional to the square of the effective neutrino mass. The lower limit on the lifetime of this decay in Tellurium is about 1E24 years, about ten orders of magnitude larger than the age of the universe. Not a trivial experiment to do.
Hopefully, in the next few years, discovery of this decay (and a strong statement about the absolute neutrino mass from the decay rate) will be a big headline story on Slashdot (and perhaps the NY Times and Physical Review Letters too - hopefully not in that order; are you listening Mr. Fleischman?).
i\hbar\dot{\psi}=\hat{H}\psi
Not only is neutrino mass important, it will make (IMHO) a fundamental change to the way in which we analyse cosmology. Although IANAP (I Am Not A Physicist) I would be more that interested to learn how this affects the concepts of dark matter, gravitational irregularity (deviations from the inverse-square law that have been suggested), and the neccesity for the existence of Black Holes to explain invisible mass and the motion of galaxies. Does the non-zero mass of neutrinos wipe out all of these uncomfortable irregularities in physics? I don't know - but I do hope so!
"Rafiniert ist der Herrgott, aber boshaft ist er nicht."
Ian D. K. Kelly
idkk Consultancy Ltd.
"Quality through Thought"
What does this have in common with neutrino mass???
Patents Drive Free Software as Hurricanes Drive Construction Industry
That was discovered back in Stardate 43349.2 when Wesley was tinkering with his Neutrino pulse beacon. Don't you guys watch TV?
There are 10 types of people in the world; those who can read binary, and those who can't.
aired in feb on Nova,l
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/neutrino/missing.htm
story of Ray Davis and John Bahcall.
If you've seen one neutrino detector in the middle of nowhere and half mile under ground, you've seen em all.
For one hell of an interesting introduction into the physics behind various particles, albeit from 1979, check out these lectures by the legendary Richard Feynman. Very informative for us without a quantum physics background.
Anybody want a peanut?
Where do these neutrinos come from?
have a look at this. it's the transcript from the BBC's recent "horizon" show, called "project poltergeist", which is on precisely this topic (neutrinos having mass). very neatly explains to a lay audience what the mystery is, and also answers exactly your specific question. it's not a long read, maybe 10mins max, and as it's the transcript to the show it leads you through the topic in a well thought out manner http://www.bbc.co.uk/science/horizon/2004/polterge isttrans.shtml
and the short answer to your question is as follows: in order to undergo neutrino oscillation, the neutrino must be capable of change. to be capable of change it must experience a personal sense of time. if it was travelling at the speed of light, it would have no sense of time. objects with mass cannot travel at the speed of light (infinite energy required for objects with mass to do this). therefore, as we experimentally can confirm neutrino oscillation, we are also confirming that neutrinos have a sense of time, which implies they are not travelling at the speed of light, which implies they have mass.
hope that clears it up -- on a side-note my first degree was actually in astrophysics, at University College London (UCL), where the article's quoted scientist comes from... didn't have her for any of my lecures though ;)
as well as mass, I hear they celebrate lent.
And I say that as somebody with a reasonably strong math backgound.
What we are really saying is that we have been able to assign a bunch of attributes to some things which are at the lower limit for infered observation because ultimately all relevant observation is mediated by photons and they have their well known limits.
From another perspective, we really haven't much of a clue about what a quark or an electron is, especially after you think about the fact that for some important purposes, the 'hole' left where an electron is 'missing' behaves almost indistinguishably from an electron (save for the charge reversal).
So just how are we supposed to tell the difference between three kinds of neutrino which oscillate amongst themselves and one kind which oscillates between states where it can interact with electrons, muons or taus? Even the idea that they interact so rarely because they have such a small 'cross section' might be hard to distinguish from the idea that they undergo a long oscilation cycle through some state space that is impenetrable to photons, and that it is only at specific moments of that cycle that they can interact with ordinary matter at all.
Particle physicists and cosmologists still don't seem to be able to get over their fetish for "too easy" answers.
-- Our systemic servants do not good masters make.
Does this mean that the long hunted for "Dark Matter" could be accounted for with the extra mass from nutrinos?
See this excellent comment from someone else: Understood' != 'the math works'. That's what I'm saying.
The investigations should continue. The over-interpreting of results should stop.
My father kept the cyclotron at Argonne in use, doing heavy metal creation and production for research, in the 70's-80's, so there are uses for the facility beyond the primary machine functions.
While Fermi may scale down, loose some prima donnas, change mission, it won't go away.
I am definitely not a scientist of any kind, just an interested observer. But from everything I remember from science class, neutrinos travel at the speed of light or darn near. So , now if neutrinos have mass after all yet still have the these behaviors, does that mean that it is possible for light to have mass also?
I wonder if they come in strawberry, or if they can only make vanilla and chocolate neutrinos so far.
I"m not sure Hawaii should appear in this list, as it appears to not so much be a state, but an illegally annexed sovereign nation.
You can do a google for the details if you wish. But, basically the resident sugar barens/merchants wanted to be part of US, so they, with the help of a boatload of US marines, took control from the constitutional monarchy and declared themselves a provisional government. Two days later they set sail for the mainland, and twenty nine days after that, they were in Washington with a annexation treaty to become part of the US.
The then president Cleveland saw through the whole thing. His rather long speech on the issue to the Senate and the House of Representatives goes into all the gory details. He also dispatched a fellow for further investigation who travelled back to the islands for a follow up report. the issue. The next president in office was unfortunately not so honourable and promptly approved the whole dirty deal.
In 1959 there was an official US apology for the whole mess and held a vote was held to officiate everything. However, independence was not offered as an option (only remaining as a territory or becoming a state), and only those who had opted to become US citizens were allowed to vote (including all the US services men and their families currently residing on the islands). Not surprisingly, the vote from the occupied islands more then made up for the overwhelming NO from the mostly native islands.
Except for another public apology in 1993, which acknowledged vote of the indigenous people in the following excerpt:
that is pretty much the end of the story. While I have linked exclusively to hawaii-nation.org, it is mostly official government records, and googling will give you lots of other links. Strange how these things are not covered in school (or at least not in the history classes I took)...Here is a wikipedia article with some details about the experiment:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MINOS>
MINOS experiment was designed and constructed to make a precision measurement of muon neutrino oscillations. This is a preliminary result with about 1/10 statistics of the projected final result, we expect to continue running for another 3-5 years with the higher beam intensity. Super-Kamiokande made its measurement using neutrinos from muon decays in the athmosphere so MINOS is an indepedent measurement using man made neutrinos.
I'm glad to see people excited about this result! Super-K and others had discovered neutrino masses first, but this was the most controlled experiment to date - they made the neutrinos, examined them when they left the accelerator, and examined them again 700 km away. Any modifications to the Standard Model are very exciting.
One thing I feel obligated to point out, however: this has nothing to do with string theory. String theory is a framework for thinking about how to unify the known Standard Model with general relativity. It's incredibly interesting, both from a physics point of view and as a purely mathematical construct. However, it has no prediction about neutrino mass, or indeed about anything remotely accessible to experiment (except, perhaps, that supersymmetry should be true at some level), and has little prospect of making such predictions anytime soon.
Many posters seem to jump to the conclusion that if something is new in physics (whether it be neutrino mass or supersolids) then it MUST somehow be confirming string theory. String theory is very pretty and I hope it's true, but not everything in physics points back to it.
Sorry for the physicists' rant, no offense intended.
Nope, it means that a neutrino would be travelling slower than the speed of light.
Dark matter (mass we can't see) has several components: ordinary (protons, neutrons, electrons) matter we happen to be unable to see, exotic matter that we do understand, and exotic matter that we don't understand. You could go into a Rumsfeld-esque discussion of "known unknowns" and "unknown unknowns" at this point.
When people talk about dark matter, they usually mean the exotic stuff, since there is a lot of evidence that the bulk of the universe's matter is exotic (look up "big bang nucleosynthesis" for details).
Neutrinos make up some of the exotic stuff, and how much depends on their mass. It turns out that they can't make up nearly enough of it, however. Furthermore, neutrinos are light particles which move at speeds near that of light. This means they don't clump together under their own gravity very easily, and tend to disrupt the formation of galaxy clusters. From looking at the distribution of galaxies in the universe, we can argue that most of the exotic dark matter must be slow-moving and "clumpable". The bulk of what people mean by dark matter is this stuff, which can't be neutrinos.
A massless particle (like the photon) should move at exactly the speed of light, while a massive particle should always move slower than light. We always used to say that neutrinos move at the speed of light because we assumed they had no mass. Now that we know they are massive, they must be moving slower. They are so incredibly light, however, that we expect them to be moving extremely close to that speed - it takes very little force to accelerate them, so anything energetic enough to make them would make them go very fast.
If photons (quanta of light) had mass, the world around us would be very different. Photons mediate the electromagnetic force, which is responsible for light, the pull of magnets, the fact that electrons stay in their orbits, etc. If the photon were massive this force would become short-range - its strength would decay exponentially with distance (like the weak nuclear force), rather than as an inverse-square law. We have done ridiculously precise tests of the inverse-square law, which translates into very tight constraints on photon mass.
neutrinos mass have been confirmed twice in the last 5 years by an two experiments held in Italy an Japan. Still US won't believe that until they do it themselves, just the same, but better.
this post contain no useful information, no need to mod it down
> So you did remember that China is bigger, you just want to take the opportunity to promote the cause of Taiwan independence?
Depends on what you mean by "country."
From Wikipedia: "The PRC government does not and has never exercised control over Taiwan."
Leaving aside the issue of the reliability of Wikipedia, does that sound like the "same country" to you? Is Puerto Rico part of the U.S. total land mass? Why or why not?
I know, hindsight and all, but still!
"I"m not sure Hawaii should appear in this list, as it appears to not so much be a state, but an illegally annexed sovereign nation."
If you're sending Representatives, Senators, and electoral votes to DC, you're a state.
"You can do a google for the details if you wish."
I'm already aware of most of the details.
"But, basically the resident sugar barens/merchants wanted to be part of US, so they, with the help of a boatload of US marines,"
It appears the overthrow would have happened anyway without the presence of a US warship, and if anything the rebels considered the presence of a warship as a hinderance to their cause. If nothing else, the debate over the nature of the overthrow slowed down annexation by years and statehood by decades.
"He also dispatched a fellow for further investigation who travelled back to the islands for a follow up report. the issue."
He then reversed his position and signed off on the conclusions of the afore-referenced Morgan Report a year later.
"The next president in office was unfortunately not so honourable and promptly approved the whole dirty deal."
McKinley didn't come into office until three years after the Morgan Report.
"and only those who had opted to become US citizens were allowed to vote"
"Opted to become?" Apparently you aren't familiar with the ramifications of the Fourteenth Amendment: as an incorporated territory, anybody born on the islands was a citizen of the United States, regardless of ethnic ancestry.
"(including all the US services men and their families currently residing on the islands)"
As residents of the islands they too had a stake in the islands' future political status. Allowing everybody to vote follows the precedent set and followed by the United States since at least the beginning of the Nineteenth Century (even after such a policy caused the disaster of "Bleeding Kansas"), these are exactly the same standards practiced today around the world, from Quebec to East Timor.
(Not that any of this matters much; Congress and Congress alone decides what is and is not a state.)
"Not surprisingly, the vote from the occupied islands more then made up for the overwhelming NO from the mostly native islands."
With so many pro-sovereignty links sprinkled throughout your post, I'm surprised you don't reference a source for this statement. I've only seen mention of Ni'ihau and Lanai'i; I'd imagine the vote on O'ahu and Hawai'i were in favor of statehood, but that still leaves four more islands unaccounted for.
"that is pretty much the end of the story."
No, it isn't.
"Strange how these things are not covered in school"
And where did you go to school? In my own personal experience, my middle and high school teachers in far-off Maryland consistently taught about the matter from a pro-royalist stance.
What I find most curious about the pro-sovereignty stance is that it assumes that, were it not for the overthrow of Lili'uokalani, Hawai'i would not be a state today. Aside from indications that the queen (among other things) would have relinquished all claims to sovereignty for $25,000, such an assumption would require that all future Hawaiian monarchs take an anti-American stance. But even the monarchy has had its share of amerigophiles, such as Kamehameha III, who negotiated a treaty of annexation and statehood with Franklin Pierce (the Senate sat on it until Kamehameha III died). The design of the flag itself shows the strong affinity of the royals to both the UK and the US, and it seems only a matter of time before one of them had the desire and the ability to successfully bring about US annexation. The islands have been subject to the predations of foreign powers pretty much since their discovery, and the "benefits of Union" (in the words of
Reminds me of that headline from the Dec. 8, 1941 issue of The Onion:
"Japanese Attack U.S. Colonial Non-State"
Though, was they not two-dimensional?; since mass is volume * density, and volume requires three dimensions, the neutrinos would have no mass.
GAAH! MY PRINTER IS ON FIRE!!! PUT IT OUT! PUT IT OUT!
Since it's in a refillable glass bottle, that's easy to explain.... Prior to the bottle being refilled in the instant case, it was refilled and purchased by someone.... That someone opened it, and drank the contents... Then they put the stainless steel wire in there - maybe as a storage container of some sort... or perhaps when the bottle was placed back into the 6-pack cardboard carrier, the wire fell into it...
Whatever the case, the wire was in the bottle when it was returned to the store to recapture the bottle deposit. That 6pack was then put into a cart full of returned bottle packs, and eventually sorted out by some part-timer who could care less about what was in the bottle...
That was then picked up by the pepsi guy and returned to the plant... Those bottles were then put on a washing line which BLASTS them with superheated steam and hotwater to clean out the old soda and junk from the bottle... In this case, it didn't get the wire out of the bottle, and some inspector missed it... It got put back into a 6pack carrier and returned to your local shelf... where you purchased the 6pack and then noticed the wire when you removed the bottle from the 6pack...
clear?
Catholic, after all. Good to know.
Mmmm... Flavored neutrinos... Like sprinkles for a doughnut-shaped universe.
Is that what I was supposed to say?
No sig for you! Come back one year!
"neutrinos have mass"
who knew they were Catholic?
But scientists are human and, unfortunately, cosmology and particle physics have proved particularly attractive to those who in another age would have wanted to start their own religions.
Just like so many things in the world we find ourselves in, Occam's Razor is both used and abused.
-- Our systemic servants do not good masters make.
Neutrinos have mass? I didn't know they were Catholic.
Keep the politics out of the tech discussions. It devolves into pointless flamewars nine times out of ten, and that's fucking annoying. It has no place here.
Slashdot - where whining about luck is the new way to make the world you want.
This has already been measured by the NASA WMAP probe. If I remember correctly (it's been a while since I read the paper) the limit is that the sum of all 3 neutrino masses is <3 eV/c2. There is a new paper out from WMAP that I have not yet read which may contain an update on this.
In fact this is one of the big mysteries in particle physics at the moment because WMAP said that 23% of the mass of the Universe could not be made of atoms (non-baryonic). The Standard Model only has one possibility for this: the neutrino. However neutrinos are so light that the ones produced by the Big Bang are moving at close to the speed of light and the WMAP results show that this missing dark matter has to be very slow moving thus it cannot be neutrinos....and in fact we do not yet know what it is or whether our models of the Big Bang are somehow wrong.
I do work for MIPP, a sister project of MINOS whose responsibility it is to analyse the MINOS beam, among other things. I know several of the guys on MINOS, and there's a good chance I'll be doing analysis work for them in the near future. MINOS has had a handful of problems in the last year since they turned on, and I'd just like to say congrats! Awesome news to read while away from home. Odd, though, that I heard it on /. first :)
Legalize it.
How on earth can this be considered flamebait?
Slashdot is a fucking joke these days. Whoever modded this down should have his privileges revoked!!!
Each state is indeed its own nation.
I don't claim to be an expert on the USian demos, but it should be noted that nation is not a government, or a set of borders. Nation is a synonym of people, and they do not necessarily correspond one-to-one. Nations are often a bit difficult to define, may be there is more than one American nation (one blue and one red, maybe...), but there sure is not 50.
I think we should all join together and offer a vote of thanks to Dr. Jenny - she took the time to explain it to us simply (she obviously knows that this is the only way to have us understand it). So "there is a lot more mass in the universe than they thought there was" ach zo !
I'm left wondering if all the possibilities have been considered here. After all, that is a long way for "neutrinos" to travel - more than 700 clicks. Could it be that some of them just laid down for a rest, and didn't arrive in time ? Could it be that some of them escaped ? (Careful - tinfoil hat required to handle those.) Any specimens found wandering (they are extremely small, but they can be heard crying for Doctor Jenny in their squeaky voices if you listen very, very carefully) are to be returned to the good Doctor by Fedex. Put them in a metal tobacco tin with a wisp of coton wool - for their comfort - and a small portion of your favorite cat food.
I personally thought that a neutrino was I kind of sheep - and, since I'm partial to lamb cutlets ...
How many beans make five, anyhow ?
According to this document:
Heim-theory Group 2003
Check that with Heim theory mass calculator (Java - runs in browser):
Heim mass clculator
Source is available here:
Source code at Sourceforge
Very extensive discussion related to Heim's theory.
Several implementations in Java, C, C#, Pascal, Excel, Maxima and Mathematica have been developed:
Physorg Forum
Ok the particle has mass..
might it be that having mass is also a side effect of having energy and speed?.
E=Mc^2
As we now have a mass (altough tiny) flying around at light speed. Isn't that verry much like the equation ?
Just wondering between a link of mass and energy. Hmm how much energy does it require for a photon traveling at light speed. I tought einstein had some theories about that.
I know you're out there. I can feel you now. I know that you're afraid. You're afraid of us. You're afraid of change.
I simply wish they'd said where it was because my mind confused Soudan with Sudan, the country in Africa ...
> also Germany has "states" too, don't they? I don't think anyone considers them to be nations even though they are called states.
;-)
Mostly correct.
However, there are two states in the "Federal Republic of Germany" whose natives beg to differ.
They call their respective states "Freistaat" ("free state").
One is saxony ("Freistaat Sachsen"), which until the reunion of germany in 1989 belonged to the eastern part of germany.
These guys are busy rebuilding their economy and coming along nicely (e.g. the most modern AMD fabs are located in Dresden, saxony). So they do not have enough time to complain too badly (even though complaining is their national pasttime, the hightest praise they could possibly muster runs somewhere along 'grumble, grumble, there's nothing to complain' ("Da jibt et nüscht zu meckern"). Besides, even if you talked german pretty well, you probably wouldn't understand them anyways - most other germans don't.
The other "Freistaat", however, is an entirely different matter.
It is the "Freistaat Bayern", Bavaria.
These guys live in the southern part of germany, and constantly bicker and threaten to leave the Federal Republic of Germany. The rest of the germans, which do not properly understand them either, hope they eventually do, but so far to no avail.
But if any of them listened in and noticed that you suggested their "Freistaat Bayern" was just another province, then you are in trouble.
Right now, they are probably donning their traditional coart of arms ("Lederhosen"), grabbing sizeable Beersteins, and lurk around the entry of the "Hofbräuhaus" in Munich waiting for you come along unsuspecting.
So watch out !
If you still do not get the threat, imagine you had suggested selling Texas back to Mexico
As the original poster I must say thanks for your level response. The article you linked to on the wikipedia was quite interesting.
I followed some of the links and also read some of "Hawaiian Sovereignty: Do the Facts Matter?" It makes an interesting comparison to "Hawaii's Story By Hawaii's Queen."
As they say, if it seems clear cut, you probably do not have all the facts. : )