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Wisdom From The Last Ninja
I Could Tell You But... writes "The AP has a story about ninjutsu master Masaaki Hatsumi, last living student of Japan's last 'fighting ninja.' He offers advice from the heart of Ninjadom, like 'always be able to kill your students,' and describes the current popular ninja image as 'pathetic.' At age 76, students are speculating on his successor, who may for the first time be non-Japanese." From the article: "As I cautiously raise the sword with a taut two-handed samurai grip, my sparring partner gingerly points to Hatsumi. I avert my eyes for a split second - and WHAM! The next thing I know, I'm staring at the rafters. Keeping your focus is just one of the lessons thumped out on the mats of the Bujinkan Dojo, a cramped school outside Tokyo that is a pilgrimage site for 100,000 worldwide followers. They revere Hatsumi as the last living master of ninjutsu - the mysterious Japanese art of war practiced by black-masked assassins of yesteryear."
Ninjas kill all the time! And don't even think about it!
--
Superb hosting 20GB Storage, 1_TB_ bandwidth, ssh, $7.95
"They revere Hatsumi as the last living master of ninjutsu - the mysterious Japanese art of war practiced by black-masked assassins of yesteryear.""
Oh man, the TMNT's are going to be so disappointed.
"always be able to kill you students" is brilliant advice... I know I'll be taking that one to heart when I'm lecturing... that'll show them for being late/taking phone calls/ talking over me. :)
*''I can't believe it's not a hyperlink.''
Sure, he can beat his students, but what about pirates?
Every time some asian (or navtive american) says something whisy washy, a sizable group of people think it's wisdom. Look at the quotes in the article, it's meaningless blabber.
Their numbers continue to rise (according to the *AA anyway)...
Joe Armstrong!
Did I say ninja? I meant ninny. Haru, you are such a ninny.
I know a pirate that could totally kick his ass...
. . . about Real Ultimate Power?
That the country of origin of such arts no longer has any interest in them. Why would kids play tennis instead of learning to beat the snot out of each other?
http://www.realultimatepower.net/
Just go and read. Or someone will flip out.
"Oh no... he found the
if you're ever curious about anything relating to ninjas and you want a straight, no bs answer, you can always ask a ninja.
This sig contains repetition and redundancy.
Yeah, I'll be sure to stay prepared to kill my students. Fat programmers with aspergers can never be too careful.
NODA, Japan - The teachings of Grand Master Masaaki Hatsumi echo through my head as he entreats me to attack a blackbelted disciple with a practice sword. "Always be able to kill your students," he says.
Chilling words from a shockingly fit 76-year-old man who bills himself as the world's last ninja and stocks his training chamber with weapons such as throwing stars and nunchucks. Especially to a neophyte whose closest brush with martial arts was watching Bruce Lee matinees as a kid.
As I cautiously raise the sword with a taut two-handed samurai grip, my sparring partner gingerly points to Hatsumi. I avert my eyes for a split second - and WHAM! The next thing I know, I'm staring at the rafters.
Keeping your focus is just one of the lessons thumped out on the mats of the Bujinkan Dojo, a cramped school outside Tokyo that is a pilgrimage site for 100,000 worldwide followers. They revere Hatsumi as the last living master of ninjutsu - the mysterious Japanese art of war practiced by black-masked assassins of yesteryear.
"He's unlimited in body, mind and spirit," says Richard VanDonk, who flew in from California to practice body throws in the dojo's warm glow of rice-paper screens and flickering votive candles. "He's a master of change."
Hatsumi is the only living student of the last "fighting ninja," Toshitsugu Takamatsu, the so-called 33rd Grand Master who was a bodyguard to officials in Japanese-occupied Manchuria before World War II and fought - and won - 12 fights to the death. Legend says that during one battle, Takamatsu snatched an eyeball from a would-be Chinese bandit.
Today, Hatsumi's enemies are stereotypes and flagging interest in the ancient art. He seeks to leave the task to a worthy successor as speculation mounts about his retirement.
In many ways, the curly-haired, wide-eyed Hatsumi has been a victim of success: He has helped make ninja an international household name by training followers from Chile to South Africa. But he also has watched his legacy co-opted by goofy caricatures such as "Mutant Ninja Turtles" and schlocky Hollywood send-ups like "Beverly Hills Ninja."
"I think it's pathetic," Hatsumi says of the ninja's modern image.
A glance around the dojo suggests the average Japanese might agree. The vast majority of students are foreigners, often with a military background, who learned of Hatsumi overseas. That's because in Japan, ninjutsu is swept up in the wave of apathy that has sapped the ranks of traditional martial arts like sumo and judo.
Most Japanese are exposed to martial arts in school. But the number practicing judo has been declining since the 1980s as more people turn to Western sports like golf and tennis. Sumo also has fallen on hard times, forcing the Japan Sumo Association to import stars.
"Young kids might be more interested in other sports that are flashy or fashionable," concedes Makinori Matsuo, an associate professor of martial arts at Tokyo's International Budo University.
"They tend to be turned off by the image of martial arts as sweaty and smelly," he said.
Ninja is a compound word from the Japanese characters for "stealth" or "endurance" and "person," a reference to their traditional role as spies, mercenaries and assassins working for medieval warlords.
Traditional weaponry such as swords and throwing stars feature prominently is Hatsumi's lessons, as do handclaws for climbing walls, blow darts and chili pepper dust to throw in an opponent's eyes.
But true ninjutsu, Hatsumi says, is self-discipline and balance in the boardroom and the battlefield. It's about mastering one's weaknesses, including laziness and fear, and exploiting a riv
I never understood the facination of ninja. I mean, it's just an art of assassination. Give me a long range rifle and cut the smoke screen, old man.
"Don't let fools fool you. They are the clever ones."
When I was a young boy, I awoke every morning to the delicious smell of pancakes. My mother, and father's dojo contained within it a hot griddle perfect for making pancakes, waffles, and a multitude of other pancake-like breakfast pastries. I remember them well -- The pleasant, care-free days of my childhood in the dojo were often spent peering into the kitchen with eager anticipation as my mother prepared pancakes my family.
.. the ultimate pancake. My journey took me to the many islands of my homeland, many days away from my dojo. My hunger for pancakes became my teacher, and foolishly I let it control the path that I walked upon. My feet, sore from travel, ached as my heart and stomach did, until I came to a realization. My duty was clear. I needed to take a stand and accept my love for the art of the ninja AND my love for pancakes. It was not wrong for me to love both. I love one as a dear friend, and one as a lover. Yes--My mission was clear--I must become a ninja, a secret assassin hired by the imperial family BUT I MUST ALSO ENJOY THE OCCASIONAL PANCAKE.
As I grew older, and began my journey to spiritual enlightenment, the memories of my pancake-eating youth filled my heart and dreams with warm, fluffy goodness....Ahhh, yes..the sweet, sweet memories... The day I ate 10 pancakes... The day I placed a warm pancake between my fleshy loins and performed the forbidden dance... The day pressed a pancake to my buttocks and encouraged my dog to come eat.. Indeed, much of my childhood was spent in pure innocence -- An innocence only pancakes can provide. It was heaven. A heaven, filled with pancakes, where I sat at the throne of God, with my hand-maidens Aunt Jemimah and Mrs. Butterworth seated beside me. An indestructible triumvirate made of flour, eggs, sugar, milk, water, and love.
By the age of 15, the path of my life became unclear and confusing. Torn between my duty my village and my love for pancakes, I foolishly left home in search of karaguchi ah-nowakadesu
My adoration for breakfast cakes has placed me within an awkward position. Many ninja refuse to recognize me as their brother. I defend my father's land, but I am looked upon as weak and undisciplined. I tell them, "But, brothers! Listen to my plea! The pancakes do not weaken me, nor do they make me disobey the rule of my sword. They fill me with love." But alas, they do not understand...For the mind of a ninja is complex.
My only earthly desire is to be accepted for who I am. Yes, I am a NINJA--But I also enjoy pancakes. Will you accept me? If you were approached by a ninja who requested a pancake, would you submit to his will?
Everything you ever wanted to know about ninjas
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NLWGgul_mZU
Everybody knows it, and always has. But we also know we're not allowed to say it, and there are those who would like to be able to prevent us from even thinking it. So prepare to be modded -1 Troll and Flamebait.
We all know that's inevitable too.
Inigo Montoya studied Ninja sword skills, but failed to take in the whole package. That's why he lost on the Cliffs of Insanity to a more driven opponent.
You know, maybe you belong on digg... with all the other idiots who end questions with periods.
"At age 76, students are speculating on his successor, who may for the first time be non-Japanese..."
Chuck Norris anyone?
I have heard rumor that the Prom Ninja is going to be Masaaki Hatsumi's successor.
Saying Java is nice because it works on all OS's is like saying that anal sex is nice because it works on all genders.
That not only is the public perception of ninjas pathetic, but the twisted distortion of what "real" ninjas are now.
You think you can debate if Kamakazi pilots or Ghost Dog is a samurai?
These modern day "ninjas" have little in common with their ancestors. Shit, ninjas aren't even seperate from Samurai, a ninja is just a job for a samurai.
*grumble*
*drink*
of course, there's almost zero books written about ninjas in english that is based in fact. You'll find some decent books in Japanese, and some decent prime sources if you can rid classic japanese- but other than that you're SOL at learning anything about Ninjas- and not from some washed out old man who can barely remember lessons taught to him when he was young.
www.GrenadeHop.com
Apparently, you lack ninja skills.
February 9th, 2009 8:55pm: Slashdot becomes self-aware.
who think they know what they're talking about, but are actually sedentary nerds who barely understand linux.
Oh I don't need to predict. It's the same way everyday.
The plural for Ninja is Ninja.
The Ninja started as a bunch of rebellious peasants thet refined there art. But to nothing like we presented in the media.
The Kruger Dunning explains most post on
The underlying connotation of shinobi (, pronounced nin in Sino-Japanese compounds) is "to do quietly" or "to do so as not to be perceived by others" and--by extension--"to forebear," hence its association with stealth and invisibility.
Huh. So...this guy is basking in the limelight. Wow, really staying true to the values there.
Slow news day? I know I tagged this one "stupid".
Please help metamoderate.
what about Shô Kosugi?
Chuck Norris will be chosen as successor.
The Kruger Dunning explains most post on
How many pirates has he killed in his lifetime I wonder?
And how many degrees did the global temperature rise?
Touched By His Noodley Appendage.
Sheesh. This is slashdot.
This issue is a bit more complicated than you think.
I put on my robe and wizard hat...
1. Ninjas' are mammels.
2. Ninja's fight all the time.
3. The purpose of a ninja is to flip out and kill people
Exactly what I was thinking. While I think ninja's are totally awesome like every other mammal on the planet, I think we all agree that not all nerds are also mammals.....
Oh, god damn it. I just had a terrible vision of RMS in skin-tight ninja gear carrying out an assasination mission in Redmond. I think my only option is to commit seppuku at this point.
Hero of Allacrost, a FOSS RPG for *NIX/*BSD/OS X/Win
Anyone can do a quick Find on the page to show that you're the only one talking about "sodomy", which means you're just a stupid troll yourself. Go back to Digg please.
What "...preserves the honor of the Bujinkan members, it indicates you are part of a larger whole--one whose members come together with warrior hearts to better themselves through training and friendship. It evinces the glory of warrior virtue, and embodies both loyalty and brotherly love." ?
Why, the required membership card, of course! Don't leave dojo without it!
http://www.bujinkan.com/guidelines.htm (#6)
-Charles
Learning HOW to think is more important than learning WHAT to think.
How can there NOT be any World of Warcraft references posted? Need roll FTW!
*furrows his brow and glances left and right suspiciously*
Damnit!
total classic
fair enough /makes mental note
checks holster snap to ensure colt45 auto is secure.
actually I am happy to see you, however that is in fact a banana in my pocket.
My wife is Japanese, so I've visited that country many times. It's an okay place, so long as you have business there perhaps. But the people aren't secretly all Shogun, Samurai or Ninja, as many still seem to believe, and they aren't all fonts of wisdom either. In fact, some are even quite stupid! Gasp!
And guys like this dine-out on their reps, yet I seldom see any attempts to verify their claims. Slashdot geeks love to bash IDers, for instance, while chanting "just the facts, man!"...yet they also blindly accept on faith something which sounds too cool to be untrue (or they'd love to be true), such as "He fought and won 12 battles to the death", and the like.
Even most Japanese take such claims with a huge grain of salt, and a lot of sake.
seppuku? Talk about your open Sores!
Thanks you! I'll be here forever!
The Kruger Dunning explains most post on
"Timing is the most difficult," he adds, while casually deflecting a gleaming metal sword swung at his neck by a veteran student. After the turning the blade on the attacker, Hatsumi gives his arm a slight twist, eliciting a baleful yelp.
I really despise prose like this in newspaper articles. I find it hard to believe that that is an exact account of what happened, so it just destroys the article's credibility and makes it seem like the writer is just trying to write a third rate action novel.
Don't trust a bull's horn, a doberman's tooth, a runaway horse or me.
Hatsumi is the only living student of the last "fighting ninja," Toshitsugu Takamatsu, the so-called 33rd Grand Master who was a bodyguard to officials in Japanese-occupied Manchuria before World War II and fought - and won - 12 fights to the death.
...Rumors of Takamatsu's death still abound to this day, but scholars estimate it occurred sometime after, but before the end of, his thirteenth fight to the death.
I have studied under Hatsumi, years ago. Before a lot of the current 'purpose built' combatives were created for military and govt. use, he and his instructors would train select U.S. govt. and military personnel.
Someone mentioned that "ninjitsu is the art of assassination". An inaccurate statement.
Ninpo Taijitsu (a very rough translation would be ninja combat), as taught under the Bujinkan, consists of several different schools. Stealth, sword combat, locking/holding/throwing, striking, etc. are some examples of the different schools, each with their own head instructor.
There is a famous story from the '50s (?, maybe '60s) where the Japanese National Judo Champion (at the time he was also the world champion) essentially 'called out' Hatsumi and ninpo taijitsu as a 'fraud'. Said champion was invited to face off with Hatsumi. Hatsumi proved he was no fraud, and shortly thereafter the Judo champion became one of the senior instructors at the 'judo' school of the Bujinkan.
Hatsumi is the real deal. I've seen him run along the top of chain link fences. At one seminar, a 250+ lb. Marine spoke up and said "Ok I know you're good, but really...in combat - what are you going to do to me?". Hatsumi sqared off with the Marine, and had him on the ground and incapacitated very rapidly. No ego, no bravado - just a teacher who understands that you must be able to demonstrate that what you teach will work for real.
Hatsumis instructor, Takamatsu, was (for lack of a better term) a real life 'ninja'. He was an agent/assassin/etc. for hire that worked for various warlords in the late 1800s.
Do some searches on Hatsumi and Takamatsu - I believe you guys will find some very interesting reading.
Sadly, when Hatsumi leaves us the Bujinkan will probably never be seen again in its current form, with one true Master overseeing all of the various schools that comprise Ninpo Taijitsu. It will truly be the end of an era.
Regards,
Former (novice) student of the Bujinkan
*sigh*
Is taking Ninja training.
This was modded Insightful, and not Funny.
Weaselmancer
rediculous.
I think the obvious choice at the moment is probably Stephen Hayes. He is well respected among Hatsumi's students, and seems to be a strong international authority on the subject. I don't know if any of his instructional books are still in print, though.
LedgerSMB: Open source Accounting/ERP
... is a ninja -with- a long range rifle. Or worse yet, a whole pirate ship full of them.
Pirate sniper ninjas. Think about it.
It is sad to see an art form like this die out. It's a little like seeing a species without a purpose die out. Sure it's a dinosaur, but it's still interesting to study and learn about.
If I were him, I, too, would probably lament the popular images of ninjas. Hollywood has definitely bastardized it, and disgraced the legend of the ninja.
// file: mice.h
#include "frickin_lasers.h"
Sneaky? Yes.
Backstabbing? Yes.
Smoke screen? Yes.
But Balmer's the one throwing stuff.
We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
I studied Ninjutsu/Taijutsu for years and achived a Nidan (2nd Black Belt). Hatsumi is overrated. The Bujinkan does no real sparring and the techniques are rarely applied against a resisting opponent. A good kickboxer or grappler would tear apart a senior Bujinkan instructor.
I can't stand the mysticism that people wrap around martial arts. Nobody is throwing chi balls of fire around the room. It comes down to human movement, physical training and hard sparring to test your techniques. Unfortunately Bujinkan schools are often filled with out of shape instructors, compliant partners and a complete disregard for sparring against fully resisting people. This article is a nice fluff piece, but Hatsumi has made Ninjutsu what it is all by himself. It's one thing to say the current image is "Pathetic" when he's publishing books like "Ninjutsu History and Tradition" and "Secrets of the Ninja Grandmaster". All of his books show black-clad Walter Mitty wannabes holding exotic weapons, etc. What did he expect people to think when he does this and gives advice like "Always be able to kill your students"?
Hatsumi runs a cult of personality and that's it. If you're thinking of training in Ninjutsu I suggest you take up a good combat handgun course instead or join the military. If you want to learn hand-to-hand combat take up boxing/kickboxing/grappling where you actually apply your skills against unwilling opponents. Anything else is just deceiving yourself.
Yeah, Ninjas are cool, Ninjas are mysterious, but face it: They're outdated. As outdated as the record industry, but they have a worse lobby.
While fighting as a sport, or for close combat, will continue to exist and has its right to exist, the art of sneaky assassination is no longer a business. If you want someone dead, hire a hitman. Easier to train, more numerous, thus cheaper.
It's simply a matter of technology. It's really no longer feasible to have a person get close to your target and have him strike there. Surveillance equipment makes it virtually impossible to get him close enough. Sneaky and stealthy or not, it's hard to beat a good surveillance system. Whatever you do, a heat or movement sensor will catch you.
Getting close enough to your target is also no longer as possible as it was. Bodyguards are well equipped. Communication is by far superior than it was 100 years ago. And to get into a bulletproof car, you also need more than just a can opener.
It's over. Killing is no longer really an artform. Everyone can do it. Just pull the trigger.
We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
It follows that your students will be less skilled than you...
So the next generation of teachers will be less skillful, and so on.
It will get to the point where any punk-ass with a niner can cap your ass before you know what happened.
I wear kevlar underware for just such an occasion. Damn that itches.
This issue is a bit more complicated than you think.
lol plagiarism? http://mdn.mainichi-msn.co.jp/features/news/200604 27p2g00m0fe016000c.html
if i'm not immortal, what's the point of living?
...te?
Chuck Norris will not be his successor. He was just the guy who preceded Chuck Norris.
The US free market: two halves of a government-granted duopoly are free to set the market price.
Chuck Norris isn't chosen, he chooses. ;)
The other month I watched this series of documentaries where a single samurai repeatedly took on dozens of ninjas at once, winning every time!
What part of "a well regulated militia" do you not understand?
I really don't understand. What is sad about it?
Things change. Everything is sad, or funny - it's just a point of view.
This issue is a bit more complicated than you think.
1 - It's not the size of the dog in the fight, it's the size of the fight in the dog.
therefore,
2 - A decent street fighter can beat most martial artists.
however,
3 - I personally know at least two elderly ladies who have beaten off attackers who were trying to rob them. They didn't even break a sweat, it was over before the robbers realized what had hit them.
4 - The Japanese used to revere the way of the samurai as espoused in the Hagakure. They believed it so much they tried to take on America. Then they realized it was a crock.
5 - Don't worry about the most effective style. Just try to find a decent teacher. Get to know lots of other martial artists. You will eventually find the style that's right for you.
6 - 9/10 of everything you hear about martial arts is a lie. YMMV
7 - When choosing a style, remember that you have to be able to go to work the morning after your lessons. Don't choose a style that leaves you wrecked. My brother-in-law retired from Tae Kwan Do after he permanently wrecked his leg.
8 - The hagakure was written by a bunch of guys who had never been in battle. In that regard, it is a lot like trying to understand knights by reading Don Quixote.
9 - The Book of Five Wrings was written by someone who was actually good at fighting. He fought many battles and lived to an old age.
10 - Most Ninja schools may or may not be pathetic depending on your standards. Most people don't actually want to train to be killers so if you judge a school by how many killers it produces, most of them will fall somewhat short. The martial artists I most respect take the students they get and deal with them the way they are. Some styles and techniques produce mental abnormalities. A teacher who complains that his students are a bunch of lily livers and who shouts a lot is to be avoided. He or she isn't a happy person and you don't want to be like that.
"I think it's pathetic," Hatsumi says of the ninja's modern image.
. jpg
Yeah, because every ninja dreams of jumping up out of the dumpster behind the fast food joint they work at & making a big "L" sign with their hand.
http://www.realultimatepower.net/ninja/kidgarbage
Wanna fight ? Bend over, stick your head up your ass, and fight for air.
How many pirates has he killed in his lifetime I wonder?
I didn't know that the RIAA was hiring ninja. Or is it the MPAA?
... you are going to trust a Wikipedia article over the man, himself? I mean, if the wikipedia article is about ninjitsu, that means its about ninjas, and this man is the head ninja... you are going to complain that the head ninja isn't living up to the wikipedia article? /boggle
would avoid giving interviews to the press.
Your design to a real part online: Big Blue Saw
Wow... thanks for perpetuating the sterotype that soldiers are fucking clueless. An M-16 is not a sniper rifle. Shooting people who are running around and shooting back at you is different from taking up a hidden position, killing a person with one or a few well placed shots, and getting the hell out of there before anyone locates you.
I would like to expand on this a bit.
Even handguns are next to useless in sufficiently close quarters. Yes, you can hit someone with them, but even there, their weight makes them slow. If oyu are trained for unarmed combat, the only weapons really worth a darn in close combat (less than about 8 feet) is a knife of a good club. And even the club is often not a match for a bare hand (esp if the barer is untrained).
In any case, training in close combat is well worth what is put into it many times over.
Note that even with all the technology available today, unarmed combat is still taught to all our soldiers, and ninja-like skills are even taught to some of our special forces. The reason is that there is nothing more important than troops on the ground.
Finally, suppose you are in an area you are not allowed to carry weapons and need to defend yourself. Unarmed combat training is worth its weight, as is training in improvised weaponry.
LedgerSMB: Open source Accounting/ERP
Yeah but what about Chuck Norris! NEVER
fukk u nigr
I will be honest I'm not familiar with Hatsumi but a master in many martial arts (especially swordplay) can only train students at the highest level by going all out. That means with the intention of striking a fatal blow, it's up to the students to prevent that fatal cut/blow as in a real life situation.
I didn't think there were any school's left that actually did this. It's out of place anyway, this isn't feudal japan.
Hmmm... Pie...
Cool, sounds good to me :-)
I'm not getting older, just better.
Point taken.
This issue is a bit more complicated than you think.
"Movie-style ninja, BTW, have a much longer history than the movies (although the term "ninja" does not appear to have been popularized until the 20th century). Ninja shows, ninja houses (sort of like American "haunted houses" at carnivals), and ninja novels and stories were popular by the middle of the Tokugawa period. The "ninja" performers may have created the genre completely out of whole cloth, or they may have built on genuine lore derived from old spymasters. Either way, however, it's clear that much of the lore underlying both modern ninja movies and modern ninja schools has both a long history AND little basis in reality outside the theatre."
"I used to tell students that the question of ninja was, from a historian's standpoint, still somewhat open. I think I'm going to take a much stronger line from now on, and point out that there are no historically credible claims supporting the historicity of a tradition which somehow concludes with modern schools of ninjustsu."
Somewhat related is this post makes the argument that the supposedly ancient history of karate (and possibly other martial arts) was manufactured in the 19th century for political reasons related to the colonization of Okinawa by the Japanese.
"It's Dot Com!"
I have spent time learning a combat martial art- there are a number of them out there. I am not talking about Karate taught as a sport (though Karate can be taught as a combat art), I am talking about combat martial arts training. We never even sparred because we did not want to train ourselves to pull our punches.
There are many things that such a martial art can teach that are hard to learn from a sport such as tennis. Sensory enhancement, more nimble reflexes, etc. are common benefits. Additionally, there is a focus benefit that is hard to describe. Combat training even if you never use it, changes how you think and how you approach the world and it is not all bad. If anything, you become less inclined to resort to violence because you deeply understand and are conscious of what you are capable of and therefore tend to be more unified in your approach to physical resistance. After studying these arts, I have used them in self defense only once, and I will not go into what happened on these forums.
Yes, it is sad that these skills are being lost. Unarmed combat training *is* something that is valuable from a personal development standpoint more than anything else.
LedgerSMB: Open source Accounting/ERP
Like -1 (verbal diarrhea).
You fool! Chuck Norris is the beginning and the end.
Wouldn't that suggest an ever-declining quality of ninja? Perhaps that's why he's the last, either that or pirates...
So let me get this straight: martial arts is a valid topic for /. now?
Clearly the people Modding the parent have never Shot an M-16. Please Mod Parent, And me, only if you know what you are talking about.
Virtaully No-one could hit ANYTHING with an m-16 at 1000 yards. I dont even know what the drop on that is, but the difference between 1000, and 1050 yards is going to be hella Signifigant. (the Difference between 300, and 350 yards is like 3 feet). I mean, Shooting off your whole clip (not on automatic, thank you, the pull will kill any ability you have to aim) will not really help. If you have to hit ANYTHING past 300 yards, you need a different Rifle. I mean, with a Scope, MAYBE you can press to 450 (I never trained on the M-16 with a scope.) I find it hard to believe the parent, talking about ranges of 1000 yards with an M-16 EVER fired one.
Damn her for advising me to go into technology or law.
She never once advised me to be a ninja.
I was never told of all the expected opportunities in the ninja profession with so many ninjas reaching retirement age or committing hara-kari.
A few weeks of generic military rifle training will teach anyone all they need to know to use a rifle effectively. The US Army does a pretty effective job teaching rifle skills in basic training
The mere fact that you would say that shows that you have absolutely, positively, no idea what you're talking about. Basic is going to (hopefully) teach you how to NOT shoot yourself when handed a gun. Anything more than that is going to come later in training, and only if you wind up in a specialization that requires that ability.
Could I hit a target every time at 1000 yards? Probably not. You solve that problem by making sure you have more than one round at your disposal. You don't need to hit a target with every shot as long as you have a full clip. Three-round groups don't hurt too much either.
Well, if the target were twenty feet wide, and conditions were right, you might be able to pull it off. Maybe. But a thousand yards is an awfully long ways out there. Most civilian ranges don't go out that far. Also, the M-16 rifle is loaded using "magazines" not "clips". Oh, and if you'd ever had any real training you'd know WHY a three-round burst would be virtually useless against a target at a thousand. Hint: it's called muzzle rise.
Honestly, grandparent said everything that needs to be said about long-distance marksmanship. Parent is a cocky grunt that never had any real training with a precision rifle. Anyone who would brag about making Expert with an M-16 in the Army, in regards to long distance shooting, is proclaiming to the world they have no idea what they're talking about.
A few weeks of generic military rifle training will teach anyone all they need to know to use a rifle effectively. The US Army does a pretty effective job teaching rifle skills in basic training. I had never handled anything other than a b-b gun as a kid, and by the time rifle training was done in basic, I qualified expert with the M-16.
Could I hit a target every time at 1000 yards? Probably not. You solve that problem by making sure you have more than one round at your disposal. You don't need to hit a target with every shot as long as you have a full clip. Three-round groups don't hurt too much either.
This is known as spray and pray. Fairly effective at about 20 m almost a lottery at 50m and hopelessly outgunned against a marksman of any calibur at 100m. The longest snipe was 2,430m by Master Corporal Arron Perry of the Canadian armed forces on a moving target (a moving target as well). At that range regaurdless of the rifle you use you will be pwned by a trained sniper and snipers aren't easily trained.
"There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, than are dreamt of in your philosophy."
lol Associated Press!
Plagiarism? Umm...not so much. It's an AP wire story. It says so, clearly, in both places.
I have no idea on the 1000 yards, but 500 yards is not a problem at all for hitting a non-moving man sized target without using a scope on the m-16. 500 yards is/was a standard part of the rifle qualifications for the USMC.
Who needs ninjas when we have Jack Bauer?
Ant(Dude) @ Quality Foraged Links (AQFL.net) & The Ant Farm (antfarm.ma.cx / antfarm.home.dhs.org).
yeh? well your a towel!
if i'm not immortal, what's the point of living?
...te?
Who says you cant shoot anything beyond 300 yards?
;) ]
I've shot bullseyes at 600 yards using a well-conditioned AR15/M16 and iron sights. The only thing is that you have to crank the hell out of the rear sight to account for the drop. The problem isn't the weapon's inherent accuracy, but correctly managing elevation and windage.
The AR15/M16 is a very popular service rifle in civilian and military competition. I've never had the opportunity to do a 1000 yard match, but I know plenty of people who have. While it isn't quite as point-and-click like a scoped "sniper" weapon, the rifle is probably more accurate than you're giving it credit for.
[Maybe I'm just biased from being on a Navy shooting team]
[Scopes are a crutch
If Chuck Norris is chosen as successor, you must kill him, because you will know that he is a false Chuck Norris. The Real Chuck Norris cannot be "successor" to an inferior legacy.
Repetition does not transform a lie into the truth. - FDR
Chuck Norris is a hack. MacGyver could build a gun from a paperclip and shoot Chuck Norris, then build a Stargate from a toaster and hide the body on some planet with no food whatsoever for when Chuck Norris wakes up.
Please, for the good of Humanity, vote Obama.
Touching a man sized target, that isnt moving, that you know is at 500 yards, is VERY differentt then hitting somone, whose distance is vaguley estimated.
How well can you estimate distance? can you really tell distance, at even medium range, to within 20%?
Lets say you can. Lets give you the benifit of the doubt, and give you a scope (which will help you estimate range). So I will give you 10% accuracy. So you guess right, to within 50 Yards.
So you are between 450, and 550 yards. Now, just some rough (ROUGH) numbers. Using regular bullets (not the heavier, more accurate, less common green bullets) the speed of the damn thing is ~990 yards/sec, exiting the breech. At over 100 yards, it has already slowed below 930. At 500 yards, it is reasnoble (I dont know the numbers on this) that it will be going slower than 700 yards/second.
Average speed: roughly 850.
So at 500 yards, it will have been in the air 5/8.5 seconds. Meaning it has fallen a total of 9.4 feet.
(roughly)
how far will the bullet have fallen at 450 yards?
4.5/8.5 (not really cause the closer you are the faster the average speed)
very roughly 8.5 feet (ok, so I was wrong with the 3 feet in myGP post. I havent done this in YEARS).
at 550 yards? probably about 10.6 feet.
So, with only a 10% screw up in range estmation, you are typically going to be off by about a foot (up or down). This doenst take into account the effects of wind (at 500 yards, your bullet has been in the air for most of a second, the wind WILL be affecting it).
With the Iron Sites, (and no help and range estimation) I dobut very much that you are going to have that much accuracy.
Look, the M-16 is a great rifle. But Past 200 yards without a site, you are asking for trouble.
At 1000 yards?
the bullet has been in the air almost a second and a half (by then it is moving well under 500 yards/second). Meaning you have to aim 27? feet above your target (even with a scope. I havent seen ajustable scopes on an m-16. Not saying they dont exist, just I havent seen em. Wouldnt make so much sense at any rate.). So you will have issues putting the "cross hairs" (or line up of the pin between the two bars (sorry I dont know the english terminology for the parts of an m-16)) well above your target. So you will be aiming in the air. and your target will be blocked by the barrel of your Rifle. You likely wont even be able to SEE it. How are you going to get anything close to a lateral pin on it, when you are looking above your target, in the air?
500 yards, Where you know the range, Possible. Hard. But Possible (I never had to hit anything with an m-16 at more than 300 yards, and without a scope, THAT is a bitch).
1000 yards? The guy hasnt fired an M-16.
your student kills you!
Big ones, small ones, some as big as yer 'ead!
Give 'em a twist, a flick o' the wrist...
So this guy claims to be the last ninja alive...
Who can be 100% sure that all the other ninjas aren't just keeping a low profile as NINJAS DO....
that second video has female nudity (at 14:00) and is not safe for work. I wonder why google never noiced.
Don't tell Shoto Tanemura.
You want to see a modern ninja - check this guys story out as he hunted an NVA.
r oes/carloshathcock.asp
http://www.grunt.com/scuttlebutt/corps-stories/he
I totally laughed when I saw that. I, as a child, admired Richard Dean Anderson. Even more than K.I.T.T. (I am hoping to convert my '99 formula).
/. could I find someone with similar heroes
But only on
How much is your data worth? Back it up now.
I defy you, or anyone else, to estimate you distance, get out your stupid eyeglass scredriver, ajust your back site, and get a round off.
I dont even know if the back site ajusts to be useful at more than 600 yards.
What Sized Target were you hitting at 500 yards? A body? A head? I mean, at 250 yards, (when you know it is 250 yards. Again. Unless you are carrying around a rangefinder, how do you know you are at 500 yards, and not 450? Because the marker on the shooting range says so? I mean, with the iron sites, it is HARD to estimate distance. Even with the scope where you can see how much between the ticks 2 peoples heads are. Its still a crapshoot) Fully happy. At 500 yards? With an M-16? Your sites are going to be so far off you wont be able to hit anything close to you.
Again. At 500 yards, you are at apprecialbe parts of a second. M-16 are hella light, it has past that funny place where it flips, and the wind is already doing funny things to it. At that range use a friggin M-24. Bigger bullet. Spins Faster (greater Stability). Moving faster.
Ok Ok. ON a shooting range, you can handle distance, and get good numbers for how far it is falling. I guess if you are on a ship, that is good enough.
But if you are moving? Use the right tool, in the right place. 500 yards? I am inclined to belive you, cause who wants to call you a liar.
1000 yards? With an m-16? Anyone who told you that is either doing their shootin in an aiplane hanger (little wind), with a range-finder, and a really accurate drop table. Or just lying. I mean, at that range, your m-16 is acting more like a Mortar. Can people shoot Mortars accurately? Sure, you Navy boys do it all the time. As Does Artillery.
Is that what an M-16 DOES? no
"Son, why don't you get out more... you know, like train under that ninja that's been living in the moutains... it'd be a good way to keep in shape and honor your history."
"Ugh, DAD! that is so LAME!"
It's official, I will never have children as pleasing them is impossible. If you can't make a 13 year old boy happy with an apprenticeship to a real ninja, nothing ever will.
Ex nihilo nihil fit.
No kidding, most of the comments on this page relate to Chuck Norris, realultimatepower, pirates, or some other weak attempt at being funny. If you don't have anything insightful/intelligent/interesting to say, don't bother hitting the Submit button.
Hatsumi is the real deal - the only real deal.
The rest of you can stuff your Shang-Chi comics up your ass.
Talking about Hatsumi like the posts I've seen here is like talking about Linus Torvalds (or any top programmer - take your pick) as if he just learned Basic and had written his first "Hello World" program.
Not that Hatsumi himself would care - a bunch of dumb American geeks aren't going to do his reputation any harm.
Richard Steven Hack - This sig is TOO GODDAMN SHORT TO DO ANYTHING USEFUL WITH! MORONS!
I'm yet another person who's Bujinkan and who has studied under soke Hatsumi.
He and ninpo taijutsu are far, far from black-clad (ok ok we're black clad) assassins of the night. Soke himself is very enlightened, cheerful, and playful. The Bujinkan has affected me a great deal spiritually boosting me and making me a better person. To see the start contrast of "ninjutsu" and actual ninpo taijutsu, try and pick up some copies of Sanmyaku, which are essentially the Bujinkan magazines full of kind and wise words.
I've also read comments here saying that his mentor, Takamatsu, was more of a ninja assassin, which is also bollocks. He was a man of his time and engaged in much life-and-death combat, but was not some evil assassin. I can only hope that the motion pictures of Takamatsu make their way into the world and everyone has a chance to see the man in motion, not just rusty old pictures.
You learn some pretty good combat and stealth techniques, but you also learn heart and peace and none of this is anything like the "ninja assassin" bullshit (which ironically, was why I first joined the Bujinkan, whoops).
using a .50 cal rifle!!
XML - A clever joke would be here if
I think my only option is to commit seppuku at this point.
With a frisbee?
Use Ctrl-C instead of ESC in Vim!
Dang it. What I meant was, With a frisbee?
Use Ctrl-C instead of ESC in Vim!
Forgot to mention that bit.
Ex nihilo nihil fit.
They play a mean round of golf!
"When the atomic bomb goes off there's devastation...but when the atomic bong goes off there's celebraaaaation!"
This is slightly off topic but really the legands of wonder fighters have about as much reality as Crouching Tiger etc.
... Standards and Practices !
Show up in the Octagon and see who walks away. It's pretty simple. The _proven_ methods of combat are mutai, jujitsu and just plain pounding the crap out of the other guy. The Gracies with Royce Gracie as the lead dominated the early days showing Brazillian Jujitsu as the most effective combat method. As time has passed there have been advances in defense and the striker - grappler thing is much more even now.
I would like to see Hatsumi strut his stuff but it's just a myth. There have been quite a few so called amazing martial artists humiliated in short order.
PenGun
Do What Now ???
Don't write off the Ninpo masters so lightly.... If it came down to it, I am absolutely certain that life-long practitioners of combat martial arts will beat those who have dulled their skills with theatrics any day.
LedgerSMB: Open source Accounting/ERP
Logically speaking, the only lesson that can be taught by someone who claims to be that last of their kind is how to be a loser.
Chaos - everything, everywhere, everywhen
Sho Kosugi URL:http://www.acidlogic.com/im_shokosugi.htm
"I don't which is worse, that everyone has a price, or that the price is always so low"--Hobbes
Your mention of cheap shots reminds me of a book a friend of mine has (he is into martial arts). I think it's called "How to be Invisible," and by his description, all of the ways listed involve blinding your opponent - throw sand in his eyes, spit in his eyes, pull something over his head, etc. The last way listed in the book is, I think, just a cartoon where a guy meditates and disappears.
But yeah, basically, the cheap shots are what do it for you.
The biggest thing yall seem to be missing is that fighting techniques, which invoke skill over physical streangth, Teach Respect, honor, and humility. Somthing that is missing in most of the westernalized cultures. 1 on 1 training as a spiritual form is the best way for anyone of any age to learn respect, not just for your elders but for your peers. You also gain peace by the teachings. I was a wrestler in HS, and studied many ancient art forms for better technique and more creativity against an oponant, sense then I have been too busy and been knocked out of shape, but I still hold on to the respect I gained.
So is an umbrella... Hence the birth of Smart Bomb.
That is an outstanding attack. It appears to be possible only on a rainy day; a Ninja working at a fast-food company would sneak a few Ninja Beans in a customer's food; then when the customer is done and resumes his walk into the rain, there will be a silen but deadly death as he is aesfixiated from the farts trapped under the umbrella over his head.
I know of a few traditions in Canada that could benefit from a Ninja-like remedy as this.
without prejudice
Who's the only one here who knows illegal ninja moves from the government?
All these people talking about guns and no one has said it yet?
:%s/blaster/handgun :%s/Jedi Knight/Ninja
"This is the weapon of a Jedi Knight. Not as clumsy or as random as a blaster, but an elegant weapon for a more civilized age."
"Where quality is like a dead stinking rat - you just can't miss it."
Yes, I said Redneck Cyber Ninja Monkeys.
The obscure we see eventually. The completely obvious, it seems, takes longer. - Edward R. Murrow
Okay, it seems we have two different conversations going on.
.308 caliber is probably a better choice.
1. Is the M16 accurate at 600+ yards?
Yes. The rear sight is easily adjustable with soldier-proof knobs. With a decent range estimation and some idea of what the wind is doing, you can reliably hit a static target at some distance. A standard NRA Highpower match goes out to 600 or 1000 yards, and it includes regular service rifles.
2. Is the M16 a practical choice for the average soldier in the field at 200+ yards?
Probably not. As soon as you throw moving, un-ranged targets into the mix, iron-sights estimation is a crapshoot at best. Additionally, the further the bullet goes, the less damage it may do (which generally isn't an issue with paper targets). Something scoped in
"Only a Ninja can kill another Ninja."
Chuck Norris beware!
At first, I thought his ninja-advice was full of powerful thought-fu. Then, I realized that it's not that hard to 'always be able to kill your students' when you ensure that they're all in their dotage.
Shop as usual. And avoid panic buying.
...Takamatsu snatched an eyeball from a would-be Chinese bandit.
This bandit must have called him an old fool.
It is better to be the hammer than the anvil.
News for Nerds, Stuff that Matters.
:)
Ahem, Ninja really brings out the nerd in everyone.
I have to call bullshit on this.. Only because i've tried, numerous times to fire the m16 at many things over 600 yds. With an M16 you're pushing it even at 300 yds far less 600 yds. Static or not, and even if you account for wind and elevation unless you're scientifically placing your shots and getting rounds off you WILL miss. I know, because I've done it. There are too many factors, too many variables and the M16 simply doesn't have a long enough barrel to be accurate with any sort of regularity. You can get pretty good at 300-400 yds if you know your weapon but that's it.
As a practical choice for 200+ yds it's indeed a fine weapon once you account for your own weapon tendencies. You can easily drop into a forward prone and set off rounds with accuracy at 200-300 yds. If you're speaking about from the top shooting you can still be even pretty accurate with the weapon but in combat no one is stupid enough to give the other side a half mast easy kill.
Also, all this 1000 yd talk is obviously for people who've never fired the m16. I mean, 1000 yds with a m16, if you actually hit your target it's because you were lucky. As some other poster was saying.. You can let mortars fly and they may even hit the target but how often does that happen? It's like saying you hit something with a m60.. It's used not for its accuracy as a weapon but to surpress fire while lets say snipers or other units position themselves for more accurate kills.
And snipers in the army do not use M16's.. Some of them have an affinity for their AR-15's.. some of them use M24's.. both come equipped with scopes and for the most part you're looking for 700-800 yd range and not 1000 yds or whatever nonsense people are talking above. Someone shooting with an m16 at 1000 yds and claiming accuracy is obviously lying; not even a sniper would try that. It's just clearly lunacy.
Hatsumi is also a chiropracter and artist as well. You can read a bit more about him here. If you'd like to see what a 73 year old ninja looks like in motion, check him out here. Even at his age, he moves much more fluidly than most, and easily throws around guys half his age.
I'm currently a student in the Genbukan Ninpo Bugei dojo, headed by Soke Tanemura Shoto, a former student of both Hatsumi and Hatsumi's teacher, Takamatsu Toshitsugu. Another ninpo ryu is the Jinenkan ryu, although I don't know very much about that particular school.
As much as I have a personal interest in this topic, I find it pretty odd to be appearing on Slashdot. News for nerds? Maybe, but not very tech-oriented. Still, glad to see that the real ninja are getting some recognition other than the Real Ultimate Power crap. The real history of the ninja is much more fascinating and entertaining than any drivel some goober on the internet can make up.
If anyone is interested further in any of this, feel free to email me, I'd be happy to converse on it. :)
kurzweil_freak
5th Kyu Genbukan Ninpo/KJJR student
Be the darkness that allows the light to shine.
That must of been a pretty big bullseye. So much for the Navy Shooting team, if true then I can only recommend you guys continue to stay on the ship and in your airplanes during battle and leave the more fine art of sniping and killing to us professionals in the army/marines because you got lucky.
Again, please leave the blood bathing to people more inclined to use the right tool for the job. "Always Forward!" not "Always in the pool!"
You sir are a wise man. No one even thinks along the lines of shooting a m16 at 1000 yards. It's like driving a city bus off road. It just makes no goddamn sense.
There's actually a rule that police follow that they stop 20 feet away from a suspect. A fast dude (or dudette) can close up to 20 feet to stab or otherwise engage in hand-to-hand combat before the police officer gets the gun out.
Snakes on a plane, Pirate sniper ninjas.
Seriously, "Pirate sniper ninjas", if done correctly, as a movie would kick ass. Ok, so I've been drinking, but still...
And much beyond 20 feet, and evasive opponent becomes hard to hit. 20 feet is generally a good distance if you have a gun.
.45 was developed. A determined and trained adversary may not let a few 9mm bullets stop him.
However.... Remember why the
LedgerSMB: Open source Accounting/ERP
The 8 foot range is assuming the gun is already out.
LedgerSMB: Open source Accounting/ERP
Seems to be a lot of experts with no clues, unarmed comabt is considered a joke by most professional soldiers. Even small arms like pistols only have very limited and really a specialist item in its usage, pilots emergency gear, SF backup etc.. (always hated carrying them, another kilo to carry that is of no use). Yes most army's provide some unarmed combat, bayonet drill etc... but this is more for agression training. To train people to react to fight or flight situations, so that if you ever need to you will fight. After that its all about adrenalin. And yes I have seen the effect, not in a military situation but somebody attempted to mug me. My immediate reaction was to kick him in the balls, worked a treat....a good hard kick in the balls sent him straight to the flight mode, never seen someone run so fast.
Whatever you say pal. Your misgivings certainly don't stop anyone from using an AR15/M16 at NRA-style highpower rifle matches. While firing a .223 bullet over 300 yards is a lob shot, that doesn't mean where it lands somehow defies the laws of physics.
Look! These guys shoot the M16 at 600 yards too! A couple pictures here too where some guys are shooting the AR15 at 600 yards.
Though, I'm obviously lying and making this all up, right?
Cause mine isn't, it is secure in my hand and aimed at your head. And so the student becomes the master.
MMO Quests are like orgasms:
You may solo them, I prefer them in a group.
At 1100 yards I put a round into a 6" target. It was an M-60's 105 main gun and I wish it was skill. But you get lucky every once in while. For normal qualification at 1100 yards hitting a 3' target is a pass. With a well set up tank and good crew 1' is about it.
However.... Remember why the .45 was developed
.45 was developed to replace the .380" not the "9mm" which was being developed a continent away
"The
Somehow I think the Master, Hatsumi, would like my engines. I imagine he would look at my Millenial Dawn's two-sided opposing configuration as being just ONE LONG NEVERENDING, NEVER WINNING BATTLE between the Master and his best student, except neither one ever gets knocked on the floor "looking up at the rafters". Once he got a look at the dual direction generator we designed http://www.newpath4.com/VAPOR3.gif I guess that would be enough to lay him out on the floor, looking up at the rafters. Defeated by a principle of Physics, to which we know there is none superior.
Seriously, is there any quicker way to generate a huge number of martial arts responses from people who have never been in a real fight? Nearly every fucking software development / tech company I've ever been to has some runt, or some fatty with a neckbeard, who knows 100 ways to kill a man. You know who you are.
"If you can't do it with one bullet, don't do it at all."
``Ragnarok
... then just contact these guys.
[Arron Perry was a Master corporal of the Canadian Armed Forces that set the record for the longest sniper kill in wartime. In Afghanistan during combat in 2002, using a .50-caliber MacMillan TAC-50 rifle, Perry shot and killed an Afghan soldier from a distance of 2,430 metres.
The record was set during Operation Anaconda when a Canadian three-man sniper team from the Princess Patricia's Canadian Light Infantry, set the new record with a shot on a Taliban fighter. Perry, as well as four other Canadian snipers, received Bronze Stars from the U.S. military for their efforts.
Later in 2002, Perry was accused of discreditable conduct by the Canadian armed forces. He had allegedly removed a finger from an Al-Qaeda corpse, defecated on another, and had his picture taken with a third who bore a sign around his neck reading "Fuck Terrorism". No charges were ever laid in the investigation.
In April of 2005, Perry left the Canadian armed forces to pursue his own interests.]
Seems slightly strange you get medals for killing them - but messing with the corpses is a no-no.
There is a documentary film about Toshitsugu Takamatsu, with Masaaki Hatsumi in it as well. It's a Japanese film, the title in English is "Takamatsu Toshitsugu, the Last Real Ninja". It's based upon a black-and-white movie filmed in the '60s that shows Takamatsu Sensei teaching Hatsumi Sensei in a park. Takamatsu Sensei demonstrates unarmed techniques and weapon techniques from the nine schools, with comments in Japanese (subtitled in English) by Hatsumi Sensei. A torrent for this film was uploaded to Secret Cinema http://www.secret-cinema.com/ a while back. It's dead now, but I am busily working on getting it back up again, so if you're interested check Secret Cinema for it in the next few days.
America is a movie. The Ultimate Battle. Everyone Has Guns. One Day, they all go out and shoot each other. Only the best and the fittest will survive. If you don't agree with me, you're a damned Democrat and a Bush Hater and you probably think Charlton Heston is Gay.
The scary thing is I bet FOX would buy this as reality TV. Hey! It watch FOX news already is.
BTW Rupert Murdoch is actually an Australian pretending to be an American so he can take control of American TV. The Ultimate Sleeper.
Yeah, Byte my gonads Tacoboy.
I was reading the article and listening to Kohina Internet radio and suddenly the SID tune Last Ninja 2 by Matt Gray started playing! :-)
My homepage: www.erkan.se
This is known as spray and pray. Fairly effective at about 20 m almost a lottery at 50m and hopelessly outgunned against a marksman of any calibur at 100m.
Unless of course you happen to be in an armored vechicle or happen to have access to a radio which invovles you calling in an air strike.
Then of course it really blows to be the sniper at that point...
"I am the king of the Romans, and am superior to rules of grammar!"
-Sigismund, Holy Roman Emperor (1368-1437)
Maasaki Hatsumi is the last grand master of Ninjitsu, but that is not to say he is the last Ninja. Steven K. Hayes was one of his students, the first westerner to receive formal Ninja training, well before the whole 1980's Ninja boom.
While there is heavy martial arts training involved, thereis an equal amount of spiritual and mental training as well. For example, Mr. White having to dodge his padded sword to attain his next rank is a test of his senses. The "attacker" focuses his intent to hit the student and the intent is what is sensed and timed to dodge the strike. If one makes no noise, then that is the only way to know without a visual sense.
If anyone is really interested in the ways of the Ninja, check out a series by Steven K Hayes aptly named "Ninja". It is in 5 parts and explains the fundamentals of Ninjitsu. A good read for anyone casually or seriously interested.
What else can happen when an unstoppable force collides with an immovable object?
that's 2.43 kilometers or 1 ½ Miles on a moving target ... that's what a Crazy Canuck can do ...
Question Authority before IT questions You
I admit that that statement wasn't fully my doing. I overheard the "gun-from-a-paperclip" part from someone at school, and added the "Stargate-from-a-toaster" part from something an Ancient did in an SG-1 episode. But yes, Richard Dean Anderson is awesome, and at least 20 times more awesome than Chuck Norris.
Please, for the good of Humanity, vote Obama.
Unusually, an article I can comment on. First of all, Hatsumi is not the last desendant of the ninja. He may be the last one that takes in students, but there is at least one other guy, not in Tokyo, who practices. (He's also a normal company employee.)
That said, I find Hatsumi's "pathetic" comment to be a bit tongue in cheek. First of all, ninjuttsu is NOT a martial art. Ninjutsu incorporates (or incorporated) various aspects of available martial arts and intelligence collection methods as a means to be a spy, an assasin, or whatever other nefarious motives were needed on a particular day. They were comparable to the KGB, CIA, NSA, pick any you like. Often they would blend in with the "Eta" and "Hinin" (untouchables) to gather information, squash resistance, or other un-lawly operations.
They didn't have dojo doors open to anyone. You were born in the way, or adopted into the way. You didn't choose to become a ninja. In that sense, I say Hatsumi, and probably his blood thirsty teacher, are full of it. I repeat, ninjutsu is not a traditional martial art. Those going to Dojo are getting a tip of the iceberg in lessons. So they teach you skills to kill a person with your bare hands. Big deal, there are quite a few moves in Karate that do the same, but they're not terribly popular for obvious reasons.
As for the outfit... Ninjas were spies. They dressed in whatever they needed to in order to blend in. The stereotypical black suit with a sword on the back was a way to blend in with the black of night, and move around vigorously without dropping, hooking, or losing the sword. They didn't dress that way in the daytime. They dressed like whatever their infiltration objective dressed like. Sometimes, they would dress like the shogun himself as a decoy.
The ninja were also knowledgable in areas of medicine, and especially readily available poisons.
So at best they were CIA agents, or speical forces personnel. Not martial artists. Todays image abroad most likely dates back to when Bruce Lee had to act the part of some odd Japanese ninja role on US TV before he got his break in the movie business. While some Japanese TV shows portray this image, it's actually an import. The equivalent to the wild-west cowboy movies and TV shows in Japan (depicting the samurai and all) show a much more realistic (but still a bit odd) picture of the ninja.
Just as much as the Last Samurai is a bit far fetched (although it's probably the best in its category to come out of the west), westerner's passion for ninjutsu is aimed at something that never existed.
And yes, I'm Japanese.
Note that even with all the technology available today, unarmed combat is still taught to all our soldiers, and ninja-like skills are even taught to some of our special forces. The reason is that there is nothing more important than troops on the ground.
Unarmed combat ceased to be the most important thing in armed conflict with the invention of club and spear. By the end of medieval times warfare had come to be dominated by longbows and projectiles. Obviously unarmed combat has only diminished in importance since then. In modern combat people get killed primarily with artillery, bombs and long distance weapons (in recent wars, 80% of casualties had shrapnel wounds). In the unlikely event that you get close enough to actually see your enemy first hand you will be shooting each other with rifles and machine guns, and praying that you will get heavy fire support before they do. Some recent asymmetric conflict like Iraq are a bit different but still you will see that "insurgents" are mostly killed by heavy support weapons, and Americans mostly by remote detonated bombs. In the cases when they get closer to each other American troops tend to dominate with their superior marksmanship and training. If the insurgents can device a plan to get really close to American troops, they will set off a suicide bomb, not enter a fist fight.
Hollywood of course tends to exaggerate hand to hand combat as it is much more exciting to have the hero and the villain fight it out with their bare teeth than having either killed by a random artillery shell.
Tor
It's quite possible. I mean, there were fighter pilots who engaged in one-on-one duels (with very different rules and settings, but still) and the very best of them came away victorious after a dozen or more fights. So it's not impossible on the face of it.
Laws do not persuade just because they threaten. --Seneca
From the little I know about *REAL* ninjas, I would most certainly agree with his view that the current idea of a ninja is pathetic.
Time for a history lesson, boyos and grlls: this is allegedly a true story of the ultimate ninja, back in the 16th century.
He was hired to kill a general. He hid in the general's outhouse, down in the shit and piss, breathing through a reed, until the general came in to make use of it. He killed him by impaling him with a spear up the rectum, then stayed hidden in the shit for another three days, until they gave up looking, and he could escape.
Ready to emulate him? No? Then stop running off at the mouth about ninjas, and go play with your Legos (tm), and stop "ninja this" and "ninja that".
mark, no, I never had an intention to be a ninja
The longest snipe was 2,430m by Master Corporal Arron Perry of the Canadian armed forces on a moving target (a moving target as well).
Note that, although that's an amazing feat in and of itself, it was Perry's second shot on the target. US Marine Gunnery Sergeant Carlos N. Hathcock's 2500 yard confirmed kill with a .50 caliber Browning rifle (the previous record holder) was made on the first shot.
The article is slightly incorrect; Shoto Tanemura Sensei (my Soke) was also a student of Takamatsu Sensei, and (as I understand it) both claim to be the recipient and keeper of the scrolls which pass to the grand master of Ninpo Bugei, with Hatsumi Sensei heading the Bujinkan organisation, and Soke heading the Genbukan Federation, of which I am a member. Both teach Ninpo Bugei, the traditional Japanese martial art of the samurai and the ninja.
I only know of Hatsumi Sensei from his website and articles about him, but I have trained briefly with Soke, and I train with one of his students here in the UK. About thirty of us went over to Japan last October for a seminar celebrating Soke's 50th year of studying martial arts, and after dinner one evening Soke spoke about the history of Ninpo Bugei, briefly touching on the differences of opinion and approach between himself and Hatsumi Sensei which lead to them forming separate branches of the Ninpo tree. All I can say is that Ninpo is an excellent martial art, developing not just fighting abilities but strength of character and inner peace as well, resulting in (in layman's terms) a great bunch of people doing a really challenging, worthwhile, and fun activity.
Chuck Norris: Socialism == a thousand years of darkness.
Dodge this.
If oyu are trained for unarmed combat, the only weapons really worth a darn in close combat (less than about 8 feet) is a knife of a good club.
Actually, the best weapon for close-quarters combat is probably a good staff - you can block almost anything with it, which you can't with a short knife or club, and you can reach your opponents legs as well as their upper body, without exposing yourself in the process. It's one of the most versatile melee weapons, and grossly underrated by most people. It's also much easier to handle than a knife, and you can legally carry them almost everywhere. Few people know how to defend themselves effectively against a skilled staff user - and they're at a severe disadvantage if they are holding a shorter weapon.
It's not a good weapon for killing people with - you really want a blade for that. But it's a heck of a good way to defend yourself and disable your opponent.
If they are real ninja, why the hell they are wearing Kabuki theatre stage handlers black suits ? In Kabuki theatre stage handlers were considered "invisible" to audience, so the actor playing invisible ninja was wearing stage handler black suit, to show the audience that he is "invisible". This agreement would hardly help in the real life.
You are right about the 9mm, but the fact is that the .45 was designed for a specific task-- namely to have a bullet strike an attacker hard enough to stop a charge. The problem was that a charging attacker who takes even a large number of bullets to the torso can still reach the shooter and strike him with a club or knife, even if the initial distance was substantial. If your adversary is largely immune to the shock of being shot (due to altered states, whether drug induced or otherwise), a .380 or a 9mm will not stop the charge, and thus shooting your attacker even multiple times may not be enough to save your own life.
LedgerSMB: Open source Accounting/ERP
or rather a disgruntled IHOP employee?
Sidearms have some limited usefulness but you are right that aside from those who are not expected to face combat anyway, there is no real reason to carry them (and indeed every reason *not* to). If you have an assault carbine, for example, a pistol is not going to add any flexibility to your ability to handle longer range combat and may even put you at a disadvantage in close range combat (it is another bit of weight). Furthermore, for hand to hand combat, an M16 beats a pistol any day because you can use it like a short staff while a pistol is sort of like an L-shaped rock....
.45 was developed).
Knife combat and other close combat is not a joke. Indeed, if you are not well trained in this regard, are aiming a gun at me, and are within 8 feet, I can take that gun away from you with little effort before you get a credible chance to shoot me. Also, there are plenty of cases of people on various sides of armed conflicts sustaining a *very* large amount (read lethal damage several times over) of damage only to close in and kill enemies with hand to hand combat before succuming to their wounds. Highly motivated enemies may not get stopped by gunfire. Documented examples include some American soldiers in Vietnam, as well as Phillipine Moros resisting American occupation (typically in this case, the Moro would sustain lethal gunshot wounds yet still kill the American soldier(s) with his club-- which was the exact reason the
My form of martial arts specializes in *close* combat (what some call infighting). One friend of mine has compared it to having a fist fight with someone while locked in a telephone booth (this is diametrically opposite to Ninpo which tends to favor outfighting including flanking, and it is *really* amusing to spar with Aikido types because they are entirely unprepared for this sort of approach).
LedgerSMB: Open source Accounting/ERP
Unarmed combat ceased to be the most important thing in armed conflict with the invention of club and spear.
I never said it was the most important thing, just that it was often underrated.
There are many areas including surprise close in attacks from civil defense forces, black ops, etc. where unarmed combat is still extremely important.
LedgerSMB: Open source Accounting/ERP
Staves and canes are quite dangerous (and are better at killing people than you think) and they are subcategories of clubs. In particular there are Indian and Philipino martial arts forms that specialize in lethal force with clubs.
Clubs/short staves were also a favored weapon among police forces in Japan for a long time (a skilled police man could *break* a Samurai sword with his club if necessary).
You make a few mistakes in your appraisal however:
1) Reach is not exceptionally important. A knife vs a good club or stave is an asymetric fight. In any case, against a good knife fighter, you can expect to get cut, perhaps badly. The analogous statement may or may not be true of those attacking with a stave or a club (getting cut does *not* depend on the velocity of the weapon). All I need to do with a knife is be able to reach your *hand* or your *arm* as you attack.
2) While short staves can be turned into clubs, longer staves are less effective at striking at cluse ranges (i..e within a foot) so they are susceptible to infighting. Knives are not. At very short ranges they might have some (limited) defensive and leverage possibilities, but would be quite a bit less flexible than being completely.
Staves work well against an opponent who is likely to be attempting to outfight or midfight you with or without weapons. They fail *miserably* if an opponent moves in and infights you. Knives tend to be the opposite, though they can reasonably used in midfighting and outfighting. They are more versitile, and more of a threat to me as I am trained to move in as soon as possible and fight you with my torso in contact with yours. With a club, a cane, or a staff, you have to stop me from doing this. If you don't, you are unlikely ever to get the leverage to hurt me.
With a knife, I may still get cut.
BTW, almost everyting you said about a staff also goes for infighting-- few people know how to deal with an opponent that close, and if you are trained, you can strike your opponent hard anywhere without exposing yourself in the process.
LedgerSMB: Open source Accounting/ERP
Hatsumi is not the the last ninja grand master, nor is he the only living student of Takamatsu.
Every single post on here where people are talking about how they studied with High Ninja Doodle-Sensei is being read, inside my head, in the voice of Dwight from The Office.
I just can't shake it. How awful.
--saint
> And while there isn't any chain link fence running for you, there's some wall
> climbing and poison dart action in this old video near the end.
This movie is utterly unimpressive. For a start, the "jumping up into a high tree" stunt at the end---the only potentially-amazing part---is jumping DOWN played in reverse. (Watch it a few times, you'll see this---I picked up on it immediately because it's related to my area of research.) Plus, the "bashing head bloody to prove determination" thing at the beginning is also faked - you'd be able to see blood on the guy's forehead if there was as much as the blood spot on the wall suggests.
Other than that, it's basically all scripted demos, which are nothing more than what you'd see in any martial arts flick, and 5 seconds of climbing up a rough wall that anyone I know who does rock climbing could scale.
Totally uninspiring. If this "ninja master" is at all associated with this movie, I find any amazing claims about him highly unlikely.
insightful my ass.
So someone has gotten within touching distance you're saying a handgun is useless? You have three pounds of metal in a secure two handed grip that can put everything you got into a barrel less than an inch across. That is a damn good striking weapon. That's good enough to get room to reload.
With modern bullets (and by modern, I mean less than a decade) a .45 is only marginally better than a 9mm. With ball ammo like they used way back when (and in the military today), a .45 is much better. In suppressed situations, a .45 is much, much better.
I'm sure your bowstaff skills come in handy when you're LARPing with your D & D buddies.
How about any time? No.
1000 yards, huh? Hmmm... let's do some math:
Max effective range M-16A2 (point target) = 550m
Max effective range M-16A2 (area target) = 800m
1000 yards = 914.4 meters
So my conclusion is... let's see... add that... and... carry... the
Let's be serious for a second....
Ninjas (and all warriors, for that matter) are not typically nice. They are trained to kill people; whomever for their current employer.
Also, don't be stupid. Those of you that think martial arts is a joke, think again. I don't know anything about this ninjutsu stuff, but I've heard and seen a few things about Aikido. It's a defensive art that is very powerful.
It's really interesting because it involves taking an enemies attacks and using it against them. Also it supposed to focus on sword like (?) movements and some weapon based combat.
You know how much squeezing a pressure point can hurt? Imagine a hard squeeze, mixed with your momentum and a good twist. Heh! Either you flip over or your arm does from the shoulder socket.
I don't know aikido btw. I did take some lessons, but I was a kid and only learned how to run through a jump rope and fail to recite Japanese numbers.
But yeah... That old guy probably means business. My teacher was an old man too. Those guys are NIMBLE, STRONG, and QUICK.
I saw a group of these "followers" following the dalai lama around(they took it upon themselves to "protect" him) when I saw him speak years ago. Not a one of them had under 35% body fat. Pretty funny watching guys in black outfits and tabi boots "sneaking" about in an auditorium under flourescent lighting.
Lol
Let me guess: White Tiger Gong Fu?
I unfortunately know too many people that think that "fighting while locked in a telephone booth" (or alternatively, a bathroom) is all they need to know. The trouble is, they not only suck when a person can step away, but also suck up close to anything beyond the limited number of short-range techniques they've seen. I just demonstrated a judo throw to one White Tiger guy (who wanted to "learn how to defeat Judo") and the guy tossed himself on the ground, he was so unused to throwing techniques.
The torrent is now up again, and being seeded... COME AND GET IT! http://www.secret-cinema.com/
> So, how many fights did you survive so far? I mean, all your opponents are dead, aren't they?
How is this "Insightful"? This is just the old "excluded middle" fallacy---falsely claiming that nothing other than to-the-death fights are useful for training or evaluating martial arts, so all modern martial arts must be equally lacking in that regard.
This, of course, is nonsense. Fighting is extremely useful for evaluating one's own abilities as well as the usefulness of particular techniques. Certainly, the closer the fighting is to "real" fighting the better, but it's obvious to anyone who gives it a moment's thought that few-rules fights (like most mixed martial arts competitions) will be much more valuable than pure sport-fighting (like most karate and tae kwon do schools do) which in turn will be much more valuable than the kind of scripted dance that aikido does.
It's just like fighter pilots and on-the-ground cockpit simulations---they're not as good as the real thing, but they're a whole lot better than nothing.
> your "fighting" abilities just a few weeks before you die
Really?
"According to his wife Linda, he had no wish to live to a ripe old age because he could not stand the idea of losing the physical abilities he had strived so hard to achieve." (among others)
When a person ages, they get slower---both muscularly and nerve responses---they get less flexible, they get weaker, they get less coordinated, and in general they become less and less able to fight effectively. Even the fiercely loyal BJJ guys insist their father is the best ever, not the best currently---80 years of martial arts training is, sadly, no match for 90 years of aging.
From your posts, you sound like a very stereotypical "physical conditioning doesn't matter, only technique matters!!" martial artist---emphasis on the "art" part. While it's true that skill and technique can overcome deficits in size, strength, and physical ability, pretending that those latter qualities don't matter at all is simply self-delusion.
I've had some (but not too much) martial arts training. It's been somewhat mixed, with striking, grappling, ground fighting, and some weapons training.
Size is a very picky issue. In general, size will give one an advantage, but it won't always determine the outcome of a fight.
I agree with a lot of the sentiment here, that most opponents aren't doing a terribly good job of resisting and thus provide very limited training. That's sport karate; it's all about the motions and looking good.
But if you find a good school who teaches street karate, you'll learn that size isn't quite so vital. Sure, size helps being able to take a hit, and it helps being able to dish out. But everyone (EVERYONE) has weaknesses. If a big guy happens to miss a little woman's weaknesses, and the little woman happens to hit him in his, she will prevail. People can be surprised, the human body has weak points (solar plexus, eyes, ears, armpits, underneath the chin, etc). If you know how to hit, and where to hit, size doesn't matter nearly as much.
You'll notice something common about all these stories of old people or women who "toss big guys around." The guy who gets tossed is always surprised. If you catch big people off guard you can drop them easily. But it helps a whoooole lot more if you're bigger than them.
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No, the application of weight/muscle mass/brute force is a relatively small part of a real experts fighting ability. I have some experience in Judo, and excess weight can be a serious disadvantage in that field. I don't know if you saw that video going around lately about the small Japanese woman in the elevator and the bag snatcher, but I noticed a lot of comments about it at the time, a great many of which were "fake" and "setup".
Not at all. If you look closely at her move, she gets under his centre of gravity and rolls him over her shoulder, much like he was falling off a barstool, and with approximately the same application of force. However, once he has started falling, she pushes him a bit faster, and slams him on his back. Now in Judo, you are taught a variety of breaks, that is when you hit the floor, you slam your hands to the floor just before you hit. This spreads the damage and makes sure you take a great deal less punishment from a move like this. The guy in the elevator doesn't break, and probably had his spine broken. Leverage means a lot more than weight. Judo has a lot of moves like that, which put the advantage on the smaller person, since they can get under the centre of gravity far more easily. Once there, its just a question of rolling the target one way or the other, and powering it a little bit. The weight of the body does its own damage.
You should look up that video if you get a chance, and remember, someone can take a few slaps or kicks fairly easily, but any form of throw is going to incapacitate the target semi permanently. No magic, no David Copperfield, just physics. Just because you don't understand it doesn't make it less real.
What he can't kill, he has sex on. Trent.
Hi all,
Search the web and you will find heaps on Hatsumi Sensei and on the Bujinkan - the school he started to teach the martial traditions he was passed by Takamatsu sensei.
Three of the schools are Ninjutsu schools (and in fact there is very little taught from these three schools). The others are all styles that have strange unfamiliar names - jutaijutsu, dakentaijutsu, koppojutsu, koshijutsu. The OLD arts.
These are not sports that are all about point scoring, they are ways to survive. If you developed a technique - you tried it on the battlefield (there were lots of opportunities around the time of the origins of these arts). If you got it right you could teach it to someone else - if not you had the next life to contemplate your failure.
To watch this old man train is a pleasure. To see the mastering of timing and distance, the exactness of placement and the creativity of movement is to see why they call this fighting an Art. If you understood the real nature of fighting you would know why, even at over 70 years of age this man can deal with several young, fit, BIG military trained guys. There is good reason why the big guys are afraid of him and he demands the respect of the martial arts community.
Yes there are times when his training partners work with him to demonstrate a point or technique - but this is mostly so that they wont have to show the real technique - which can be quite physically damaging.
There is as much training in have to deal with the real world as there is with traditional technique - you must learn to get on with others so there is no strict heirachy in the Bujinkan, no strict order, This too is a reason that many Japanese find it difficult to train - they thrive on order and structure.
So talk about it all you like, or search out a Bujinkan school and see it for yourself. But be careful - Hatsumi soke has also said "you need the bad teachers, they attrack the bad students".
The Takamatsu den is not KORYU, so the lineage of ninjutsu school can't be proven for Togakure school . Hatsumi and Takamatsu invent all the scrolls .. no other Budo master in japan believe in Takamatsu story and Hatsumi claim. Make research and you will not see the name of Takamatsu in chinese or japanese archives about death match or something like that .. they make those $ story to increase the popularity of the style they created.
April 2, 1972, from old age. No-one wins the battle against Time; they only postpone their final defeat.