They're not doing something right, they're killing DNT by making it meaningless.
It should never have survived birth in this form. Advertisers can choose to ignore it? Well, wtf is it good for? Certainly not protecting anyone's privacy.
if sites decide to ignore the DNT tag then it is time for regulators to step in.
I think it would make a lot more sense to get browser developers to build in enforcement of DNT regardless of what the website wishes. I wouldn't expect regulators to get this right.
Microsoft knows full well that the false signal will be ignored, and thus prevent their own users from having an effective option for DNT even if their users want one.
Obviously the simple answer to that is to pop up a window asking the user if they wish to confirm this is their preference (explaining diminished user experience, yada yada, if they choose yes). Yes?
I, as a mere user, don't much fscking care if Microsoft is trying to screw over their competitors with this. Have you ever seen Microsoft play fair with its competitors? How naive can you be?!? If you sleep with dogs, you may end up with fleas. You fell for it. Suck it up.
Oh, and thanks to all of you for not giving a damn about what any of us mere users wanted.:-|
Right on. I ran out of Mod points or you would be getting one from me for that post.
Thanks.
Microsoft did get it right here and I hope that the other browsers follow suit.
The real trouble here is the DNT Standard was designed by and for advertisers, not users. Now, they're bitching because it's being seen for what it is; a lie to users. Now, in order to fix this fsckup, we need to lobby browser developers to build in features that enforce DNT whether the website we visit wants to honour DNT or not. Thanks a lot!:-P
What a cockup, and Apache's gone to the dark side!
Some advertisers would like their servers to use your browsing history to serve ads that are relevent to you. Do you want to allow them, or do you want to see generic ads of stuff you're probably not interested in?
Before complaining the above is biased, tell me how. Tell me how it's untrue. And tell me why that would be worse than DNT by default, or no DNT by default.
That's how it should have been done. That's not how the standard was written. They fscked up designing DNT, and now they're learning just how badly they fscked up.
... which is what the DNT flag is defined to mean in the standard, a standard for which Microsoft is on the workgroup and has not requested that the meaning be changed...
Then you came up with an advertiser friendly mishmash of a standard that is bound to be ignored by the people who came up with it, advertisers, ignoring what the original meaning of DNT was, that some people thought there was too much tracking going on and they should be able to disable that.
I don't know why Microsoft came around to the light side on this, but they are correct to do so.
Advertisers ignoring DNT is bad for customers because those who are concerned about being "tracked" for advertising purposes have no way to turn off tracking.
Then browsers should be enabled to enforce DNT when it's enabled, regardless of whether advertisers like it or not.
... its a means of communicate a very specific decision on the part of the user...
And why is it wrong for that very specific decision to be to enable tracking?
Because you think the web is for advertising as that's where your bread and butter is. You live by page views and banner ads and Google ranking.
I think Apache has set the evil bit here because that's where the vast majority of its user base lies. I don't particularly care what sort of mishmash you people believe the DNT standard is supposed to be. Think back to the initial concept. "Say, some people don't like all this ubiquitous tracking. Maybe we ought to come up with something that users can do about it?" You see that as a threat to your bread and butter, and now you're bitching about someone deciding that maybe all that tracking ought to be opt-in.
I spent years crafting a web page to disseminate things I learned to anyone who wanted to read it. It had no ads, tracked no-one, was appreciated by many, and that's how the web was intended to work.
Now, it's been leveraged and taken over by advertisers who believe it's their personal fiefdom.
So it could be argued that having 'do not track' as a default setting is more representative...
It should be argued!
It just goes to show how out of step we supposedly knowlegeable users are from the web as it is today. Apache, et al, believe it it's an advertising vehicle and that's the way it's supposed to be because a lot of the web is driven by advertising.
The web was not designed to enable advertising. It was designed to disseminate information easily.
This is about the first time I find myself defending Microsoft in decades. They got this right. Apache and its ilk should ask the users whether they "wish to see a richer, more personalized web experience by enabling the sending of the user's personal web surfing history to select websites" if they want this.
DNT should be the default. WTF do they think DNT means, ffs?!? It means we don't like it to be a surveillance based society by default!
what a dump. reddit has destroyed you. please unplug your last server.
This is the phenomenon I wonder about. So many ACs moan about how bad/. is for whatever reason, yet they're still here. Why? Haters just gotta hate? Do you enjoy figuratively stirring entrails? You've nothing better to do than subject yourself to what you clearly see no need for?
That's just sad. That's a self-abusive personality. No, your character flaws have no effect on me, btw.
It's not really that surprising that he's blunt and outspoken.
That may be the understatement of all time. Linus pulls no punches. I wonder how his wife manages to deal with him. I love the guy, but holy crap, reading kernel devel stuff is scary at times.
Torvalds vs. Cox, death match, with Tanenbaum cheering from the sidelines!!!111
... if it were a real attack it would have used a live CD/USB and stolen the data without leaving a trace. Is this just a backhand against Linus for being rude about Romney and Mormons, yaknow, a setup by the staff to show that the funny names you are bantering about are real grou;s with an anti-American agenda? Is this a conspiracy, OMG, tinfoil hat time,
What?!?
I think if Linus really wanted to fsck up the US, you'd not have a chance, he'd have done it long ago, there'd be a backdoor built into all FLOSS that he could activate on a heartbeat, and they'd be in Polynesia before you even saw it coming your way. Linus and RMS would be on a beach sipping Pina Coladas, watching you go down.
FYI, I'm a Canuck, so no sticks in that fire. Still; holy crap, Obama vs. Romney?!? That's the best you guys can come up with?!? HTF does !@#$ like that even happen?
Thank you $GAWD! that you're not about to elect Hillary or Palin. Whew. That's a bullet worth dodging.
I see words, but I do not see intelligence. or coherence.
I doubt you'ld recognize either of them if they bit you on your nose. Methinks you need to grow up some, but that's just me. No hurry. We've got about a half a million years before Earth gets boiled away. Take your time.
[BTW, I started using Linux in ca. '93, after I was introduced to Ultrix, OSF/1(True64), DECWindows (X on VMS),...]
Have a nice life, grasshopper. There's no hurry! Get it right is all we ask of you. And, have fun!:-)
Now that you've analysed your copy of the data, please delete it.
I think you've a shallow definition of "analyze." Analysis can go on forever.
Keeping it because it might be useful is trumped by deleting it because it might be used maliciously. Every extra copy of the data makes it more insecure.
I'm a bit of a history buff. I recoil from deleting anything. The Arabs saved precious texts while the Xtians were burning books. Thanks to them, we know of Aristotle and Archimedes.
Yes, it's hard to trust anyone to be competent enough to "do the right thing" these days, but we have to hope they will try, yes?
I don't automatically assume the worst from anyone; nowadays I probably should. I *really* hate that I should have to do that. That's my fatal flaw.
Slashdot Mirror
I could've sworn I was reading Slashdot... do nerds like maple syrup more than most people?
Consider that today is the first day of post-season baseball. Which would you expect nerds to be talking about? MLB, or Maple syrup heists?
Since when did Canada have a president?
When we need one (which is very seldom), we use yours. It's less expensive and we don't have to suffer any (well, many) consequences from it.
It was worth about $20 million, that's serious business.
This was from the strategic reserve, ie. that which is held from the market in order to pump up the price of what does get sold.
If only there was some form of gate which could detect metal.
Including alyoominium?
They're not doing something right, they're killing DNT by making it meaningless.
It should never have survived birth in this form. Advertisers can choose to ignore it? Well, wtf is it good for? Certainly not protecting anyone's privacy.
if sites decide to ignore the DNT tag then it is time for regulators to step in.
I think it would make a lot more sense to get browser developers to build in enforcement of DNT regardless of what the website wishes. I wouldn't expect regulators to get this right.
Microsoft knows full well that the false signal will be ignored, and thus prevent their own users from having an effective option for DNT even if their users want one.
Obviously the simple answer to that is to pop up a window asking the user if they wish to confirm this is their preference (explaining diminished user experience, yada yada, if they choose yes). Yes?
I, as a mere user, don't much fscking care if Microsoft is trying to screw over their competitors with this. Have you ever seen Microsoft play fair with its competitors? How naive can you be?!? If you sleep with dogs, you may end up with fleas. You fell for it. Suck it up.
Oh, and thanks to all of you for not giving a damn about what any of us mere users wanted. :-|
Yeah, I can't believe that anybody is bothering to defend Apache.
Those defending Apache are their userbase; those running websites. This was never about what us mere web users wanted.
Right on. I ran out of Mod points or you would be getting one from me for that post.
Thanks.
Microsoft did get it right here and I hope that the other browsers follow suit.
The real trouble here is the DNT Standard was designed by and for advertisers, not users. Now, they're bitching because it's being seen for what it is; a lie to users. Now, in order to fix this fsckup, we need to lobby browser developers to build in features that enforce DNT whether the website we visit wants to honour DNT or not. Thanks a lot! :-P
What a cockup, and Apache's gone to the dark side!
Apache doesn't sell ads, they won't "enter" anything.
No, but the vast majority of their users, those running websites, do. Why should Apache care about us mere users?
Some advertisers would like their servers to use your browsing history to serve ads that are relevent to you. Do you want to allow them, or do you want to see generic ads of stuff you're probably not interested in?
Before complaining the above is biased, tell me how. Tell me how it's untrue. And tell me why that would be worse than DNT by default, or no DNT by default.
That's how it should have been done. That's not how the standard was written. They fscked up designing DNT, and now they're learning just how badly they fscked up.
By setting the flag on by default, they are killing the mishmash of a standard designed by and for advertisers, not users.
FTFY. "Do Not Track" is Newspeak, plain and simple.
... which is what the DNT flag is defined to mean in the standard, a standard for which Microsoft is on the workgroup and has not requested that the meaning be changed ...
Then you came up with an advertiser friendly mishmash of a standard that is bound to be ignored by the people who came up with it, advertisers, ignoring what the original meaning of DNT was, that some people thought there was too much tracking going on and they should be able to disable that.
I don't know why Microsoft came around to the light side on this, but they are correct to do so.
Advertisers ignoring DNT is bad for customers because those who are concerned about being "tracked" for advertising purposes have no way to turn off tracking.
Then browsers should be enabled to enforce DNT when it's enabled, regardless of whether advertisers like it or not.
Simple solution.
... its a means of communicate a very specific decision on the part of the user ...
And why is it wrong for that very specific decision to be to enable tracking?
Because you think the web is for advertising as that's where your bread and butter is. You live by page views and banner ads and Google ranking.
I think Apache has set the evil bit here because that's where the vast majority of its user base lies. I don't particularly care what sort of mishmash you people believe the DNT standard is supposed to be. Think back to the initial concept. "Say, some people don't like all this ubiquitous tracking. Maybe we ought to come up with something that users can do about it?" You see that as a threat to your bread and butter, and now you're bitching about someone deciding that maybe all that tracking ought to be opt-in.
I spent years crafting a web page to disseminate things I learned to anyone who wanted to read it. It had no ads, tracked no-one, was appreciated by many, and that's how the web was intended to work.
Now, it's been leveraged and taken over by advertisers who believe it's their personal fiefdom.
You're evil on this one.
So it could be argued that having 'do not track' as a default setting is more representative ...
It should be argued!
It just goes to show how out of step we supposedly knowlegeable users are from the web as it is today. Apache, et al, believe it it's an advertising vehicle and that's the way it's supposed to be because a lot of the web is driven by advertising.
The web was not designed to enable advertising. It was designed to disseminate information easily.
This is about the first time I find myself defending Microsoft in decades. They got this right. Apache and its ilk should ask the users whether they "wish to see a richer, more personalized web experience by enabling the sending of the user's personal web surfing history to select websites" if they want this.
DNT should be the default. WTF do they think DNT means, ffs?!? It means we don't like it to be a surveillance based society by default!
WTF does RTP mean, in context with this story?
what a dump.
reddit has destroyed you. please unplug your last server.
This is the phenomenon I wonder about. So many ACs moan about how bad /. is for whatever reason, yet they're still here. Why? Haters just gotta hate? Do you enjoy figuratively stirring entrails? You've nothing better to do than subject yourself to what you clearly see no need for?
That's just sad. That's a self-abusive personality. No, your character flaws have no effect on me, btw.
Why was this modded troll?
If they have a problem with being called batshit crazy, then they should stop acting batshit crazy.
Ya know, I tell people that all the time. It doesn't do any good. Nobody wants to hear the truth.
I can lift 300 lbs over my head and still, nobody likes me! Well maybe you're a dick?
It's not really that surprising that he's blunt and outspoken.
That may be the understatement of all time. Linus pulls no punches. I wonder how his wife manages to deal with him. I love the guy, but holy crap, reading kernel devel stuff is scary at times.
Torvalds vs. Cox, death match, with Tanenbaum cheering from the sidelines!!!111
$dmr nods from the afterlife (sadly).
Bright or not, that would be caving to alleged mormon influence, as in "don't piss us off or we will hurt you"
Get the fuck off my lawn before I shoot you.
But seriously ...
$deity, I hate it when people say that.
... if it were a real attack it would have used a live CD/USB and stolen the data without leaving a trace. Is this just a backhand against Linus for being rude about Romney and Mormons, yaknow, a setup by the staff to show that the funny names you are bantering about are real grou;s with an anti-American agenda? Is this a conspiracy, OMG, tinfoil hat time,
What?!?
I think if Linus really wanted to fsck up the US, you'd not have a chance, he'd have done it long ago, there'd be a backdoor built into all FLOSS that he could activate on a heartbeat, and they'd be in Polynesia before you even saw it coming your way. Linus and RMS would be on a beach sipping Pina Coladas, watching you go down.
FYI, I'm a Canuck, so no sticks in that fire. Still; holy crap, Obama vs. Romney?!? That's the best you guys can come up with?!? HTF does !@#$ like that even happen?
Thank you $GAWD! that you're not about to elect Hillary or Palin. Whew. That's a bullet worth dodging.
I see words, but I do not see intelligence. or coherence.
I doubt you'ld recognize either of them if they bit you on your nose. Methinks you need to grow up some, but that's just me. No hurry. We've got about a half a million years before Earth gets boiled away. Take your time.
[BTW, I started using Linux in ca. '93, after I was introduced to Ultrix, OSF/1(True64), DECWindows (X on VMS), ...]
Have a nice life, grasshopper. There's no hurry! Get it right is all we ask of you. And, have fun! :-)
Oh, and bite my shiney metal ...
Now that you've analysed your copy of the data, please delete it.
I think you've a shallow definition of "analyze." Analysis can go on forever.
Keeping it because it might be useful is trumped by deleting it because it might be used maliciously. Every extra copy of the data makes it more insecure.
I'm a bit of a history buff. I recoil from deleting anything. The Arabs saved precious texts while the Xtians were burning books. Thanks to them, we know of Aristotle and Archimedes.
Yes, it's hard to trust anyone to be competent enough to "do the right thing" these days, but we have to hope they will try, yes?
I don't automatically assume the worst from anyone; nowadays I probably should. I *really* hate that I should have to do that. That's my fatal flaw.