Dear bitter fanatic,
No, actually I didn't basically say that at all. I said that if you want the Linux Mainstream Desktop dream to come true, then you have to make sure the average masses can use it. Doesn't matter anyway though...no matter how many security features you put into an OS to protect it from users, they'll still find a way to screw it up.
Yeah, it had to be said. Most average users don't want to: #1. Save the attachment. (extra step) #2. Find where they saved it. (extra step) #3. chmod it (extra step) warning #4. Double click it. #5. Give sudo password. (extra step) warning
Hell, most users I've worked with through the years would of been screwed at step 2. Step 3 would blow the rest away...and any are left at step 5, they probably forgot their password.
Find a way to fix that, and the various *nix's will have a chance...until then, its going to stay a specialist/hobbyist OS. Most users don't want to know how it works, they just want it to work, and they want it to be easy. Heck, even when trying to show them how to do things in Windows safer, they gripe and just say, "oh, i'll just call you if it breaks."
P.S. Is it just me, or are things on/. getting layed over the tops of other things? Previewing especially...
1. Did you read my reply? You seem to be still trying to answer the other guy in this thread.
2. They are not a corporation. They are a tax-exempt entity...they don't have to pay taxes unless they make money in a way that doesn't benefit their members (the recording studios). In their 2001 tax return (I don't have time to file another Freedom of Information Act for new returns) they made 9.7 million dollars from piracy cases, which they claim to have given all of that back to the recording studios to cover "losses".
3. And no...since they aren't a government agency, they don't need me to help pay for their legal costs (which seems to be the argument you and the other poster seem to be going around and around on). As a 501(c)6 entity, they can accept donations to help cover those payments...and I have to add, that those donations are NOT allowed to be used as tax dodges due to their (c)6 classification. Once again, they ARE NOT a government agency...they do spend a large amount of money giving donations to many different government officials in order to ensure they vote on laws that benefit the RIAA and its members, but in no way are they entitled to any government money.
4. Yeah..they pay employees, and those people pay taxes on their income...noone disputed that. But that doesn't mean in any way that we should all kick in some of our income tax to cover their losses. Once again, they are an entity created to protect the interests of the recording studios, mainly in the form of lobbying and now, playing Music Policeman. They are not a government agency, so my income tax paid to the United States Government should have nothing to do with them.
5. Do you live in the United States? I'm not sure which state covers all the court costs for a civil case (which would be your hypothetical case about the car accident), but in my experience, the loser of the case pays a majority of those fee's. Heck, even in a lot of criminal cases, monetary fines and restitution help defray the costs of the trial itself.
6. And once again...since they are EXEMPT FROM TAXES, yes, I do pay more income tax then they do. By they, I mean the RIAA...not it's individual employees.
7. I didn't actually bring this up, I just wanted people reading the thread to know that your particular argument against the previous poster about the "tax dollars at work" thing wasn't correct.
8. The "loopholes" comment was aimed at real corporations...which, as I've mentioned several times already, the RIAA isn't.
9. I'm guessing at this point I've been trolled, since your most recent reply had nearly nothing to do with mine:/ Oh well, such is Slashdot.
OK, the "they pay more taxes" thing just doesn't fly when discussing a corporation. While the actual dollar amount they pay in taxes probably does far exceed the actual dollar amount I (or most other USAian's) pay, I'm willing to bet my next tax return that the percentage of tax they pay is less than mine. It's downright retarded to compare the dollar amounts of taxes paid for an individual to a company. If you want to go down this road, you should be looking at the percentage of taxes paid on the income of both.
Since I can't afford a battery of tax lawyers to find a bunch of loopholes and other tax dodges, I'm sure I pay a higher percentage of my income then nearly any corporation in the country.
And on that note...the RIAA isn't a corporation, it is a 501(c)6 tax-exempt entity. So yeah, I probably do indeed pay more taxes then they do, unless they have one hell of huge bakesale and don't give that money to the studios or use it for lobbying. I appreciate you trying to play devils advocate to the situation, but in this case, the tax argument should not be brought up.
In the U.S. it can be different depending on state...at least Arizona and Georgia are different. I think in all states, you can get a license at 16. In Arizona, you have to pass a written test, which is based on a small pamphlet of driving information, definately not very hard. You then have to drive around with someone who grades you on mistakes...I don't remember this being a big deal, although I failed it the first time because I didn't turn my turn signals on far enough back before the actual turn. The second time, I made sure to turn them on about 50 yards before each turn (; There is a drivers education class in the high schools (all, as far as i know), but i don't think it was mandatory. Mine was definately worthless. You can get a learners permit at age 15 1/2, but that wasn't necessary either. Once you get a license, you used to keep it until you were 65 (which sucks now that I dont have one...I always wanted to get pulled over at age 65 with a license that had my picture at age 25), now I think it only lasts 10 years.
In Georgia, according to my about-to-drive nephew, you have to have a learning permit for a year and a day before getting a license, in which they assume you pick up at least 30 hours of driving practice. They offer a lot of driving classes (I've seen quite a few private businesses that teach driving stuff), but it is optional. The Georgia license lasts 10 years.
Just found out that Virginia has a license age of 17, and in two years it will go up to 18. Insurance rates are headed down there because of this.
Since most driving classes are offered by the public schools, there isn't a cost associated with them...not sure about the private classes. I think the license itself was only around 35 dollars in AZ...I know it was only 35 for my new Georgia license, and since I had an AZ one already, I didn't have to take any test (oh, had a 5 second eye exam)..they just switched things over.
Thats silly...sure if you delete iexplore.exe (note, no final "r" in "explore") it stops you from running IE. The problem/. readers have is System File Protection putting it right back into place.
This is bad for those who want 100% control of their computers. But for the other 99 44/100's % of the people out there who just "want it to work", this is a good thing...then when they accidentally delete "important" files, they don't blow up their PC, and have to spend WAY too much money at CompUSA to have it fixed.
For most, just installing an alternate browser is good enough though. With my Internet Explorer folder in XP being just under a meg in size, I don't feel the urge to remove it...and for those who say that MS MAKES you use it to get updates, thats wrong too...turning on Automatic Updates doesn't require you to use IE at all.
I've tried quite a few different browsers...I've just not used any of the other ones enough to be as efficient as I am with IE. Maybe I'm just super lucky, but I've never had any problems using it...no viruses, no spyware, no issues at all. But then I'm different, because I keep my patches updated, and don't goto websites that try to connect my (non-existent) modem to Jamaica for free porn.
All ranting aside, your reply didn't even come close to answering my actual question, but thanks for playing the/. game anyway! (;
I believe you are correct...if not the first, then among the first. It is the shell executable, so is fairly important (;
But "iexplore.exe" doesn't start up until the user starts it...so yeah, I'd have to say thats an application, like the others (:
I keep seeing most anti-IE folks rail on ActiveX, which makes me curious...I've seen an ActiveX plugin for Firefox. Does using that make Firefox open to the attacks that use ActiveX as the way in? Serious question, not trying to troll; I'm hoping for a serious answer (;
This isn't your home PC, where you are allowed to do whatever you want with it. This is a work machine, belonging to the company, and used for company business.
I recently started work with a company that allowed all laptop users (and probably over half of the 500+ users have laptops) to have admin rights on their machines. My first day consisted of asking why there was a pile of laptops on the workbench, and finding that they all had spyware/virus/installed-some-program-that-wrecked- something-else/"I was just playing with that Control Panel thingie!" problems.
A few jobs ago, I worked PC/LAN support for an Army base. The lead PC Tech there said something to me that sounded harsh, but made sense. "These people do not need Internet access, Solitaire, fancy smiley faces for their email, cute cursors, Bungle Monkey (tm), Webshots, etc, in order to do their jobs." I made the argument that having some entertainment outlets on the PC made for happier workers; he asked me how happy I was cleaning up these messes. Had to just smile and realize that, while draconian, he was correct about how things should work.
The costs of running a support department would plummet if people realized that even though it says "My Computer" on their work computer, it actually doesn't belong to them, so they shouldn't be treating it like their home machines.
There are plenty of ways to make poorly written software work properly, allow some access to "usability" changes, and grant some ability to "make it comfortable to use" without giving the user full Admin privileges. If your employer doesn't have an IT staff that can do that for you, then they should be carpooling with you to your local Manpower offices.
I believe the new versions of the MCSE tests make it a little tougher...now you have to cram in more than just your spare time (:
A really good friend of mine (who in his defense is one of the smartest guys I know, and got me hooked on FreeBSD...and just got hired by Google, the lucky dog) got his NT4 MCSE without ever...EVER...seeing/using/installing NT4, at all. I'm not saying everyone could of done that, cuz he kicks ass, but still... (;
Well, the sysadmins who know its easy to disable Automatic Updates using Group Policy, use some other type of update server, and know what they are doing in general are rejoicing...
As for the other 80% of the MS-centric shops all over the world, I can see them having some issues with such an ordeal.
Not really a patch, is it? Turning something off? That sounds like Microsoft saying to turn off ActiveX controls, until a real patch can be made...
When Firefox releases a real "patch" that lets you use the "True" setting, and it works correctly, then its "patched". Right now its just "Band-Aided".
I don't tip because society says I gotta. I tip when somebody deserves a tip. When somebody really puts forth an effort, they deserve a little something extra. But this tipping automatically, that shit's for the birds. As far as I'm concerned, they're just doin their job.
Look, I ordered coffee. Now we've been here a long fuckin time, and she's only filled my cup three times. When I order coffee, I want it filled six times.
These ladies aren't starvin to death. They make minimum wage. When I worked for minimum wage, I wasn't lucky enough to have a job that society deemed tipworthy.
Hey, I'm very sorry that the government taxes their tips. That's fucked up. But that ain't my fault. it would appear that waitresses are just one of the many groups the government fucks in the ass on a regular basis. You show me a paper says the government shouldn't do that, I'll sign it. Put it to a vote, I'll vote for it. But what I won't do is play ball. And this non-college bullshit you're telling me, I got two words for that: "Learn to fuckin type." Cause if you're expecting me to help out with the rent, you're in for a big fuckin surprise.
yeah, we looked at few *nix solutions, but finding touch screen drivers that worked well was quite a hassle. We still might go that direction if things get worked out hardware-wise.
Heh (; well, being that this is Slashdot, and that most people feel Windows OS's are zero stable, I used "quite stable" to imply that I've never had a problem with our implementation of it...but I'm damn good at what I do (;
And I was a little vague, it doesn't navigate the plane (no computerized Chewbacca yet), but collects information on the location of the plane in time and space, and relays it back to a central database (this is required for all airlines and is usually done by paper and pencil...so this just automates a lot of that info gathering). It's neat stuff.
The embedded version of XP is actually quite nice. I helped configure a version that runs some navigation equipment on airplanes. Having main-stream support for the hardware, and then ONLY having to put in that specific support, plus the support for the basic applications it will use keeps it quite stable. It's also really small when done correctly...we run ours off of a 32meg thumbdrive.
actually its not bad at all, at least with the device i use. you might get a little bit of that "computer noise" over the speakers between songs, but otherwise things come through quite clean.
and thats just the radio shack cheapie one. I hear in quite a few reviews that the one that Belkin makes (with a digital tuner) is the best.
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Dear bitter fanatic,
No, actually I didn't basically say that at all. I said that if you want the Linux Mainstream Desktop dream to come true, then you have to make sure the average masses can use it. Doesn't matter anyway though...no matter how many security features you put into an OS to protect it from users, they'll still find a way to screw it up.
Love,
Me
Yeah, it had to be said. Most average users don't want to:
/. getting layed over the tops of other things? Previewing especially...
#1. Save the attachment. (extra step)
#2. Find where they saved it. (extra step)
#3. chmod it (extra step) warning
#4. Double click it.
#5. Give sudo password. (extra step) warning
Hell, most users I've worked with through the years would of been screwed at step 2. Step 3 would blow the rest away...and any are left at step 5, they probably forgot their password.
Find a way to fix that, and the various *nix's will have a chance...until then, its going to stay a specialist/hobbyist OS. Most users don't want to know how it works, they just want it to work, and they want it to be easy. Heck, even when trying to show them how to do things in Windows safer, they gripe and just say, "oh, i'll just call you if it breaks."
P.S. Is it just me, or are things on
Guess thats why I keep coming back here...it's fun to agree to disagree (;
1. Did you read my reply? You seem to be still trying to answer the other guy in this thread.
:/ Oh well, such is Slashdot.
2. They are not a corporation. They are a tax-exempt entity...they don't have to pay taxes unless they make money in a way that doesn't benefit their members (the recording studios). In their 2001 tax return (I don't have time to file another Freedom of Information Act for new returns) they made 9.7 million dollars from piracy cases, which they claim to have given all of that back to the recording studios to cover "losses".
3. And no...since they aren't a government agency, they don't need me to help pay for their legal costs (which seems to be the argument you and the other poster seem to be going around and around on). As a 501(c)6 entity, they can accept donations to help cover those payments...and I have to add, that those donations are NOT allowed to be used as tax dodges due to their (c)6 classification. Once again, they ARE NOT a government agency...they do spend a large amount of money giving donations to many different government officials in order to ensure they vote on laws that benefit the RIAA and its members, but in no way are they entitled to any government money.
4. Yeah..they pay employees, and those people pay taxes on their income...noone disputed that. But that doesn't mean in any way that we should all kick in some of our income tax to cover their losses. Once again, they are an entity created to protect the interests of the recording studios, mainly in the form of lobbying and now, playing Music Policeman. They are not a government agency, so my income tax paid to the United States Government should have nothing to do with them.
5. Do you live in the United States? I'm not sure which state covers all the court costs for a civil case (which would be your hypothetical case about the car accident), but in my experience, the loser of the case pays a majority of those fee's. Heck, even in a lot of criminal cases, monetary fines and restitution help defray the costs of the trial itself.
6. And once again...since they are EXEMPT FROM TAXES, yes, I do pay more income tax then they do. By they, I mean the RIAA...not it's individual employees.
7. I didn't actually bring this up, I just wanted people reading the thread to know that your particular argument against the previous poster about the "tax dollars at work" thing wasn't correct.
8. The "loopholes" comment was aimed at real corporations...which, as I've mentioned several times already, the RIAA isn't.
9. I'm guessing at this point I've been trolled, since your most recent reply had nearly nothing to do with mine
Noone bothered to write me up a nice article when I introduced my Trojan.PSPThrowItAgainstTheWall hack :/ It made any PSP basically useless too.
OK, the "they pay more taxes" thing just doesn't fly when discussing a corporation. While the actual dollar amount they pay in taxes probably does far exceed the actual dollar amount I (or most other USAian's) pay, I'm willing to bet my next tax return that the percentage of tax they pay is less than mine. It's downright retarded to compare the dollar amounts of taxes paid for an individual to a company. If you want to go down this road, you should be looking at the percentage of taxes paid on the income of both. Since I can't afford a battery of tax lawyers to find a bunch of loopholes and other tax dodges, I'm sure I pay a higher percentage of my income then nearly any corporation in the country. And on that note...the RIAA isn't a corporation, it is a 501(c)6 tax-exempt entity. So yeah, I probably do indeed pay more taxes then they do, unless they have one hell of huge bakesale and don't give that money to the studios or use it for lobbying. I appreciate you trying to play devils advocate to the situation, but in this case, the tax argument should not be brought up.
In the U.S. it can be different depending on state...at least Arizona and Georgia are different. I think in all states, you can get a license at 16. In Arizona, you have to pass a written test, which is based on a small pamphlet of driving information, definately not very hard. You then have to drive around with someone who grades you on mistakes...I don't remember this being a big deal, although I failed it the first time because I didn't turn my turn signals on far enough back before the actual turn. The second time, I made sure to turn them on about 50 yards before each turn (; There is a drivers education class in the high schools (all, as far as i know), but i don't think it was mandatory. Mine was definately worthless. You can get a learners permit at age 15 1/2, but that wasn't necessary either. Once you get a license, you used to keep it until you were 65 (which sucks now that I dont have one...I always wanted to get pulled over at age 65 with a license that had my picture at age 25), now I think it only lasts 10 years.
In Georgia, according to my about-to-drive nephew, you have to have a learning permit for a year and a day before getting a license, in which they assume you pick up at least 30 hours of driving practice. They offer a lot of driving classes (I've seen quite a few private businesses that teach driving stuff), but it is optional. The Georgia license lasts 10 years.
Just found out that Virginia has a license age of 17, and in two years it will go up to 18. Insurance rates are headed down there because of this.
Since most driving classes are offered by the public schools, there isn't a cost associated with them...not sure about the private classes. I think the license itself was only around 35 dollars in AZ...I know it was only 35 for my new Georgia license, and since I had an AZ one already, I didn't have to take any test (oh, had a 5 second eye exam)..they just switched things over.
Thats silly...sure if you delete iexplore.exe (note, no final "r" in "explore") it stops you from running IE. The problem /. readers have is System File Protection putting it right back into place.
/. game anyway! (;
This is bad for those who want 100% control of their computers. But for the other 99 44/100's % of the people out there who just "want it to work", this is a good thing...then when they accidentally delete "important" files, they don't blow up their PC, and have to spend WAY too much money at CompUSA to have it fixed.
For most, just installing an alternate browser is good enough though. With my Internet Explorer folder in XP being just under a meg in size, I don't feel the urge to remove it...and for those who say that MS MAKES you use it to get updates, thats wrong too...turning on Automatic Updates doesn't require you to use IE at all.
I've tried quite a few different browsers...I've just not used any of the other ones enough to be as efficient as I am with IE. Maybe I'm just super lucky, but I've never had any problems using it...no viruses, no spyware, no issues at all. But then I'm different, because I keep my patches updated, and don't goto websites that try to connect my (non-existent) modem to Jamaica for free porn.
All ranting aside, your reply didn't even come close to answering my actual question, but thanks for playing the
I believe you are correct...if not the first, then among the first. It is the shell executable, so is fairly important (;
But "iexplore.exe" doesn't start up until the user starts it...so yeah, I'd have to say thats an application, like the others (:
I keep seeing most anti-IE folks rail on ActiveX, which makes me curious...I've seen an ActiveX plugin for Firefox. Does using that make Firefox open to the attacks that use ActiveX as the way in? Serious question, not trying to troll; I'm hoping for a serious answer (;
k...here --> monster.com
- something-else/"I was just playing with that Control Panel thingie!" problems.
This isn't your home PC, where you are allowed to do whatever you want with it. This is a work machine, belonging to the company, and used for company business.
I recently started work with a company that allowed all laptop users (and probably over half of the 500+ users have laptops) to have admin rights on their machines. My first day consisted of asking why there was a pile of laptops on the workbench, and finding that they all had spyware/virus/installed-some-program-that-wrecked
A few jobs ago, I worked PC/LAN support for an Army base. The lead PC Tech there said something to me that sounded harsh, but made sense. "These people do not need Internet access, Solitaire, fancy smiley faces for their email, cute cursors, Bungle Monkey (tm), Webshots, etc, in order to do their jobs." I made the argument that having some entertainment outlets on the PC made for happier workers; he asked me how happy I was cleaning up these messes. Had to just smile and realize that, while draconian, he was correct about how things should work.
The costs of running a support department would plummet if people realized that even though it says "My Computer" on their work computer, it actually doesn't belong to them, so they shouldn't be treating it like their home machines.
There are plenty of ways to make poorly written software work properly, allow some access to "usability" changes, and grant some ability to "make it comfortable to use" without giving the user full Admin privileges. If your employer doesn't have an IT staff that can do that for you, then they should be carpooling with you to your local Manpower offices.
I believe the new versions of the MCSE tests make it a little tougher...now you have to cram in more than just your spare time (:
A really good friend of mine (who in his defense is one of the smartest guys I know, and got me hooked on FreeBSD...and just got hired by Google, the lucky dog) got his NT4 MCSE without ever...EVER...seeing/using/installing NT4, at all. I'm not saying everyone could of done that, cuz he kicks ass, but still... (;
Well, the sysadmins who know its easy to disable Automatic Updates using Group Policy, use some other type of update server, and know what they are doing in general are rejoicing...
As for the other 80% of the MS-centric shops all over the world, I can see them having some issues with such an ordeal.
Not really a patch, is it? Turning something off? That sounds like Microsoft saying to turn off ActiveX controls, until a real patch can be made...
When Firefox releases a real "patch" that lets you use the "True" setting, and it works correctly, then its "patched". Right now its just "Band-Aided".
Jesus...I'm glad there are at least TWO intelligent people who read Slashdot, besides myself. Thanks for redeeming nerdhood (;
I don't tip because society says I gotta. I tip when somebody deserves a tip. When somebody really puts forth an effort, they deserve a little something extra. But this tipping automatically, that shit's for the birds. As far as I'm concerned, they're just doin their job.
Look, I ordered coffee. Now we've been here a long fuckin time, and she's only filled my cup three times. When I order coffee, I want it filled six times.
These ladies aren't starvin to death. They make minimum wage. When I worked for minimum wage, I wasn't lucky enough to have a job that society deemed tipworthy.
Hey, I'm very sorry that the government taxes their tips. That's fucked up. But that ain't my fault. it would appear that waitresses are just one of the many groups the government fucks in the ass on a regular basis. You show me a paper says the government shouldn't do that, I'll sign it. Put it to a vote, I'll vote for it. But what I won't do is play ball. And this non-college bullshit you're telling me, I got two words for that: "Learn to fuckin type." Cause if you're expecting me to help out with the rent, you're in for a big fuckin surprise.
yeah, we looked at few *nix solutions, but finding touch screen drivers that worked well was quite a hassle. We still might go that direction if things get worked out hardware-wise.
Heh (; well, being that this is Slashdot, and that most people feel Windows OS's are zero stable, I used "quite stable" to imply that I've never had a problem with our implementation of it...but I'm damn good at what I do (;
And I was a little vague, it doesn't navigate the plane (no computerized Chewbacca yet), but collects information on the location of the plane in time and space, and relays it back to a central database (this is required for all airlines and is usually done by paper and pencil...so this just automates a lot of that info gathering). It's neat stuff.
The embedded version of XP is actually quite nice. I helped configure a version that runs some navigation equipment on airplanes. Having main-stream support for the hardware, and then ONLY having to put in that specific support, plus the support for the basic applications it will use keeps it quite stable. It's also really small when done correctly...we run ours off of a 32meg thumbdrive.
Holy God...do not click on link in parent, its almost as bad as goatse :/
:/
Damn you JonnyCalcutta, damn you to hell! I will never be able to watch Tron again
aww, stole my idea (; glad I searched first, avoided that redundant mod..
Randy Johnson, is that you?
The science team of Weyland and Yutani promise to be the first to officially complete the Nasa MoonROx challenge!
Sounds like the first step of terraforming to me...or so I hope (;
actually its not bad at all, at least with the device i use. you might get a little bit of that "computer noise" over the speakers between songs, but otherwise things come through quite clean.
and thats just the radio shack cheapie one. I hear in quite a few reviews that the one that Belkin makes (with a digital tuner) is the best.
Are you saying you can't get your religion from a book? Jesus Christ, don't let the Disciples hear you!
Cost effective Wind Power (Kilowatts/Construction costs) would mean the end of middle east conflict
Not to be a Troll, but Wind Power will get rid of religion?