Your comment has been one of the few that have been well thought out.
But you have nothing to 'fear' from India. Sure India has a massive population. Imagine the opportunities! Indian businesses need better processes, software and hardware, in order to be efficient enough to serve the Indian market alone! As things stand there is no way that India can be fully self-sufficient, or even provide essential things to everyone there. Unless there is a massive increase in productivity, and a huge boom, things will go wrong.
China is now teetering on the brink, their centrally planned (forced) economy is now bursting at the seams. If they do not manage to transfer the wealth from the rich coast to the populous interiors, all the repressed anger will blow up.
India although much slower, is almost completely decentralized. So much so that in a recent congressional hearing, the southern parts of India were termed 'close to Developed nations', as opposed to the mostly lawless and backward north. Hopefully these disparities can be handled well.
Do the companies that move these jobs off-shore sell at least 1% of their products overseas? In which case, aren't the citizens of these countries entitled to these jobs, in the same way that you claim Americans are?
Why are the jobs the right of Americans? Should we ban American imports in India/China because they remove jobs from Indians/Chinese?
So when these companies sell outside the US, they are multi-national, when they remove jobs from the US, they are American?
Is there one 'America' which is shipping jobs overseas? All I see is Cisco, Juniper, EDS, IBM shipping jobs. If you are a shareholder tell them to stop sending their jobs overseas, at the cost of reducing your income (via share price increase and/or dividends).
But don't bullshit that all you want are jobs in the US. It doesn't work that way.
First off, you need a lot of different spices. This one assumes you use fresh spices, as opposed to pre-packaged ones.
Spices you need - few pieces cardamom, Cloves, cinnamon, dry rose leaves(very little) bay leaves (more than previous) poppy seeds aniseed (sombu) mint leaves and a lot of other spices you probably can't get:D
tomatoes potatoes green chillies (NOT jalapenos, thai chillies perhaps) red chillies lotsa onions one fresh chicken, de-skinned, cut into pieces. oil, salt.
Method - Fry all spices in oil. Preferably sunflower oil or gingelly oil. Once they are reasonably fried, add red chilies and fry some more. Add onions and fry till golden. Add tomatoes and green chillies and fry. Once tomatoes are squishy, add the chilli powder and coriander seed powder. Both are to taste. So you might need a few iterations to get it to your taste. Fry some more. Add chicken and fry it well. Make sure all the spices are properly mixed with other ingredients. Now once it is all fried well, add the buttermilk/yoghurt and coconut milk and as much water as you want to get desired consistency (some like it watery). Boil this in a pressure cooker for say 10 mins. Of course the whole operation could have started off in one of those huge pressure cookers:D. Open, add salt, taste.
Add any other ingredients you think are lacking.
Magic - since this is a closed-loop process, you can add a) Rice powder - if too spicy, sour etc. b) more chilli powder if too bland c) more coriander powder if too little 'spice' Make sure you taste it AFTER you add the salt, and don't add too much salt.
Make sure you boil the whole thing well after any corrections.
Add fresh coriander leaves, chopped, at the end. Also add some powdered asafoetida.
I've not given the amounts, cos I basically cook approximately, tasting at each stage.
When two big companies agree to do some work for each other, I'm sure there is a contract in there somewhere, and not merely the EULA. It is quite possible that this contract contained a clause barring un-authorized uses of SCO libraries etc. Just like th MS EULA, except that this would be a SIGNED contract, and therefore legally, quite enforceable by SCO.
They pay for more frequent spidering of their webpages. This would certainly be a benefit to some commercial sites. Not sure that it is useful for a majority of sites.
Target had the 10GB 3G Ipod for 150$, on clearance. Went like hot-cakes. Check at a Target near you!!
Good thing you didn't tell them it was $400!!
So let's see, I got a 10GB portable hdd + mp3 player for 150$ (7.5 times what you paid), 10GB/800MB = 12.5 times the capacity, along with tremendous extra functionality.
If 1 in 10 ppl in the US is a 'child in poverty', that makes approx 27 million children in poverty. Why go through the rest of the math? You seem to be taking the fraction of the answer itself.
And why is this figure a problem if there are only 70 million children in the US ?( source. Mostly poor people have more children than rich people, which is why you will have more than half the children in poverty.
I'm doing many simulations, and so are my fellow students. Modern CAD packages for doing MEMS, nano-tech work with high resolution scream for more RAM. 2GB is barely sufficient, and anything I can feed it is a worthwhile sacrifice. None of our labs can afford Itanics. But we sure can and do need more than 4GB (3GB if windows). I've been advising people to get Opterons whenever they are about to upgrade their systems in order to have an upgrade path in mind.
You're saying that we should help MS fix its code. Helping a commercial entity with no resultant reward, other than incidental (less idiots using buggy programs), is really dumb.
Use this to show the bugs, get more people to move onto more secure software (not necessarily OSS). What obligation do you have to MS?
I want to see MS sw improve. But I'll be damned if I actively help a corporation make money off me, without any benefits to me.
Most Americans have had access to computing resources since they were toddlers. Many grew up programming, and got to love it.
Most Indians did not have access to a computer at home. Any 'love' is picked up either in the last couple of years in high school, where you get access once a week for a few hours, or in the bachelor's program, where you may be able to access a lab 24/7.
Of course since around '96 most college students purchase PC's, and nowadays there are many parents who buy computers for their kids to learn with.
So if the 'love' can develop at work, sure. But for many it is probably just a job.
Let's say you want 500 programmers. Sure you can go to the Phillipines. Now multiply that by the 1000 companies trying to go there. 500,000 programmers are probably hard to find.
Let's say a company wants 10,000 programmers. Where are you going to find them?
Simply put, there is a need for quality in a volume which not many countries can fulfill. India, China, Pakistan, Bangladesh, Brazil have the largest populations, and population growth.
If you want educated, well qualified people, who are in the top 25%, and you want a few thousand of them, with an option for future growth, then the choices narrow down considerably.
India also has the advantage of an excellent (in the region) higher education system - churning out hundreds of thousands of graduates, in engineering, business, accounts etc. Most of the other countries do not have the advantage of sucha system.
1) Yes, the lower castes were oppressed. Do you think that the PC way of not calling anyone 'lower castes' is going to solve the problem? Of course not! Affirmative action is going on to lift them from whatever state they are in. India has a population of a billion. It is also the world's largest democracy. As you might well know, it takes a lot of work to do anything useful in a democracy, but once it starts, it is almost impossible to stop.
2) Trans-border legal problems are always tricky. If someone expects American laws in India, Europe or the UK, they are screwed anyway. I would venture so far as to say that law in India is right now better off than law in Russia.
3) This does not go against my argument. The market WILL learn if India is a bad destination. So far it hasn't. What has been learnt is that implementation is important, and just outsourcing to India will not work.
4) Why is it impossible in S and SE Asian countries? I see no reason at all. After all, do you think the Defense forces there hire everyone off the stree and there are no background checks? That's just crazy talk.
5) Again, see free market. You think it will take a year for companies to learn? Then that will be a lesson never forgotten.
7) Huh?? India is huge, and you are going to get a few wackos who support any terrorist organisation in the world. Please do not let that judge the rest of billion people. BEsides, what major world terrorists are you talking about? India has been affected badly by most of them. Indira Gandhi - assassinated by the Sikh extremists Rajiv Gandhi - assassinated by Sri Lankan extremists 60,000 people killed in Kashmir by Muslim extremists, Al-Quaeda, et al. Bomb blasts in Bombay, Coimbatore by other Muslim extremists.
Do you think these guys are going to be allowed to walk in to a technology lab., and 'steal' IP secrets? Besides what in hell are they going to do with some ERP software, or some C++ code? I really think you have the wrong view of India. We were victims of terrorism much before the US was. The funny thing is, the US, for all its protests of democracy, refused to help India, and aided Pakistan till a couple of years ago. For some reason they like to deal with military dictatorships outside of the US, rather than democratically elected govts., who have frequent change of plans.
1) Sure the low-caste people have rights. For the last 50 yrs, they have had 'affirmative action'. In Tamil Nadu, 70% of all college seats, government jobs are reserved for the lower castes. Any money flowing into India is going to be spent on essentials, and may be for a few imports. The money pretty much goes straight to the people, and not to some mythical upper-caste people.
2) India has a pretty decent legal system. Not as bad as most other countries, or your the US's bosom buddies Pakistan. Why in hell does India have to have YOUR laws? Do you expect the UK to have your laws? Since you seem to be clueless, may be you think that Europe and the UK have American laws too??!!
3) It's called a free market. So an Indian company cheats once. Do you think that they can get business a second time? Have you heard of companies needing references?
4) Wht the f**k does a background check have to do with any of this? Are you subject to a background check when you join a SW company in the US?
5) Customer Alienation - see free market, 3 above.
6) Any imports that you do are a form of out-sourcing. Let me know when you refuse to buy a PS2, Toyota, BMW, Benz or Nokia.
7) Sure high-tech was leaked to Terrorists - by your bosom pals the Pakistanis. Not by the Indians.
India has CDMA running in WLL carriers - Reliance and Tata Indicom.
Re:Why are genetically defective people breeding?
on
Three Blind Phreaks
·
· Score: 4, Insightful
And while eye-sight was required for survival centuries ago, intelligence is required to survive now. Evolution doesn't need these brothers to be weeded out. Survival of the fittest means that if these brothers survive because of intelligence, then their lives are not worthless for the next generation of humans.
This is bull-shit, please point to some references. All you need to work in India, is a letter of invitation from a company and a work visa. Sure you can't come in on a tourist visa and work. But it is much easier to get a work visa in India than in the USA.
http://www.indianslivingabroad.com/resources/vis a- guide.asp for guidelines.
First of all, the Indian Govt. DOES NOT have such a requirement. I don't think there are any computers made in India.
Second of all, while there is a substantial amount of bonded labour - 'slavery', this has NOTHING to do with tech wages!! Sure there might be a bit of wage depression among the very poor, but definitely not massive.
Thirdly, the number of 'untouchables' is now quite small.
Your suggestion for getting rid of slavery and 'untouchability' is forcing the rest of developing India out of the Globabl economy? Not the best way I'm sure. And I'll bet you are happy buying products made by slaves in China (from a recent NYTimes article).
I'm sure you have the noblest intentions in pointing out these problems, but unless you provide a solution, you are merely flamebait.
And though you are not responsible, your fore-fathers in the USA did grow fat on the backs of African slaves. Please do consider the absolute poverty and misery that many third-world countries face. Globalisation is finally pulling India and the third-world out of this. Please don't try to stop this.
Slashdot Mirror
Your comment has been one of the few that have been well thought out.
But you have nothing to 'fear' from India. Sure India has a massive population. Imagine the opportunities! Indian businesses need better processes, software and hardware, in order to be efficient enough to serve the Indian market alone! As things stand there is no way that India can be fully self-sufficient, or even provide essential things to everyone there. Unless there is a massive increase in productivity, and a huge boom, things will go wrong.
China is now teetering on the brink, their centrally planned (forced) economy is now bursting at the seams. If they do not manage to transfer the wealth from the rich coast to the populous interiors, all the repressed anger will blow up.
India although much slower, is almost completely decentralized. So much so that in a recent congressional hearing, the southern parts of India were termed 'close to Developed nations', as opposed to the mostly lawless and backward north. Hopefully these disparities can be handled well.
Do the companies that move these jobs off-shore sell at least 1% of their products overseas? In which case, aren't the citizens of these countries entitled to these jobs, in the same way that you claim Americans are?
Which way do you want to have it?
Why are the jobs the right of Americans? Should we ban American imports in India/China because they remove jobs from Indians/Chinese?
So when these companies sell outside the US, they are multi-national, when they remove jobs from the US, they are American?
Is there one 'America' which is shipping jobs overseas? All I see is Cisco, Juniper, EDS, IBM shipping jobs. If you are a shareholder tell them to stop sending their jobs overseas, at the cost of reducing your income (via share price increase and/or dividends).
But don't bullshit that all you want are jobs in the US. It doesn't work that way.
If Apple's legal team was ok with it and has cooperated with Apple fully, what is your problem?
Do you have some information that Apple's legal team doesn't?
Let me try a chicken curry -
:D
:D.
First off, you need a lot of different spices. This one assumes you use fresh spices, as opposed to pre-packaged ones.
Spices you need -
few pieces cardamom,
Cloves,
cinnamon,
dry rose leaves(very little)
bay leaves (more than previous)
poppy seeds
aniseed (sombu)
mint leaves
and a lot of other spices you probably can't get
Other ingredients -
Coconut milk (1/2 can)
curds (1 cup)
coriander seed powder (dhania powder) 2-3 tbsps
chilli powder
tomatoes
potatoes
green chillies (NOT jalapenos, thai chillies perhaps)
red chillies
lotsa onions
one fresh chicken, de-skinned, cut into pieces.
oil, salt.
Method -
Fry all spices in oil. Preferably sunflower oil or gingelly oil.
Once they are reasonably fried, add red chilies and fry some more.
Add onions and fry till golden.
Add tomatoes and green chillies and fry.
Once tomatoes are squishy, add the chilli powder and coriander seed powder. Both are to taste. So you might need a few iterations to get it to your taste.
Fry some more.
Add chicken and fry it well. Make sure all the spices are properly mixed with other ingredients.
Now once it is all fried well, add the buttermilk/yoghurt and coconut milk and as much water as you want to get desired consistency (some like it watery).
Boil this in a pressure cooker for say 10 mins. Of course the whole operation could have started off in one of those huge pressure cookers
Open, add salt, taste.
Add any other ingredients you think are lacking.
Magic - since this is a closed-loop process, you can add
a) Rice powder - if too spicy, sour etc.
b) more chilli powder if too bland
c) more coriander powder if too little 'spice'
Make sure you taste it AFTER you add the salt, and don't add too much salt.
Make sure you boil the whole thing well after any corrections.
Add fresh coriander leaves, chopped, at the end. Also add some powdered asafoetida.
I've not given the amounts, cos I basically cook approximately, tasting at each stage.
Have fun!!
More like a contract issue - AGAIN!
When two big companies agree to do some work for each other, I'm sure there is a contract in there somewhere, and not merely the EULA. It is quite possible that this contract contained a clause barring un-authorized uses of SCO libraries etc. Just like th MS EULA, except that this would be a SIGNED contract, and therefore legally, quite enforceable by SCO.
They pay for more frequent spidering of their webpages. This would certainly be a benefit to some commercial sites. Not sure that it is useful for a majority of sites.
Every technological improvement increases the availability of Porn.
Target had the 10GB 3G Ipod for 150$, on clearance. Went like hot-cakes. Check at a Target near you!!
Good thing you didn't tell them it was $400!!
So let's see, I got a 10GB portable hdd + mp3 player for 150$ (7.5 times what you paid), 10GB/800MB = 12.5 times the capacity, along with tremendous extra functionality.
If 1 in 10 ppl in the US is a 'child in poverty', that makes approx 27 million children in poverty. Why go through the rest of the math? You seem to be taking the fraction of the answer itself.
And why is this figure a problem if there are only 70 million children in the US ?( source. Mostly poor people have more children than rich people, which is why you will have more than half the children in poverty.
Install sidetrack - www.ragingmenace.com
and set up a scroll bar (both horizontal and vertical), tap on the trackpad for left click, and tap on the button for right click.
Yeah, there is no middle button, so cut and paste on X11 is still out. But I find this to be extremely comfortable.
I'm doing many simulations, and so are my fellow students. Modern CAD packages for doing MEMS, nano-tech work with high resolution scream for more RAM. 2GB is barely sufficient, and anything I can feed it is a worthwhile sacrifice. None of our labs can afford Itanics. But we sure can and do need more than 4GB (3GB if windows). I've been advising people to get Opterons whenever they are about to upgrade their systems in order to have an upgrade path in mind.
There are ~ 500 million Hindi Speakers. Niche market you say? More like MS finally woke up.
You're saying that we should help MS fix its code. Helping a commercial entity with no resultant reward, other than incidental (less idiots using buggy programs), is really dumb.
Use this to show the bugs, get more people to move onto more secure software (not necessarily OSS). What obligation do you have to MS?
I want to see MS sw improve. But I'll be damned if I actively help a corporation make money off me, without any benefits to me.
Where's the love coming from?
Most Americans have had access to computing resources since they were toddlers. Many grew up programming, and got to love it.
Most Indians did not have access to a computer at home. Any 'love' is picked up either in the last couple of years in high school, where you get access once a week for a few hours, or in the bachelor's program, where you may be able to access a lab 24/7.
Of course since around '96 most college students purchase PC's, and nowadays there are many parents who buy computers for their kids to learn with.
So if the 'love' can develop at work, sure. But for many it is probably just a job.
It's free, or really cheap. And many people are under the assumption that any kind of certification helps with a job search.
I don't think it means much, just adds fluff to the resume.
Let's say you want 500 programmers. Sure you can go to the Phillipines. Now multiply that by the 1000 companies trying to go there. 500,000 programmers are probably hard to find.
Let's say a company wants 10,000 programmers. Where are you going to find them?
Simply put, there is a need for quality in a volume which not many countries can fulfill. India, China, Pakistan, Bangladesh, Brazil have the largest populations, and population growth.
If you want educated, well qualified people, who are in the top 25%, and you want a few thousand of them, with an option for future growth, then the choices narrow down considerably.
India also has the advantage of an excellent (in the region) higher education system - churning out hundreds of thousands of graduates, in engineering, business, accounts etc. Most of the other countries do not have the advantage of sucha system.
We are all like that only!
Nah, it's just an accent, and if an accent and manaresim can be insulting to a billion people, then we are too thin-skinned.
Nice try, I'm beginning to think you are serious.
1) Yes, the lower castes were oppressed. Do you think that the PC way of not calling anyone 'lower castes' is going to solve the problem? Of course not! Affirmative action is going on to lift them from whatever state they are in. India has a population of a billion. It is also the world's largest democracy. As you might well know, it takes a lot of work to do anything useful in a democracy, but once it starts, it is almost impossible to stop.
2) Trans-border legal problems are always tricky. If someone expects American laws in India, Europe or the UK, they are screwed anyway. I would venture so far as to say that law in India is right now better off than law in Russia.
3) This does not go against my argument. The market WILL learn if India is a bad destination. So far it hasn't. What has been learnt is that implementation is important, and just outsourcing to India will not work.
4) Why is it impossible in S and SE Asian countries? I see no reason at all. After all, do you think the Defense forces there hire everyone off the stree and there are no background checks? That's just crazy talk.
5) Again, see free market. You think it will take a year for companies to learn? Then that will be a lesson never forgotten.
7) Huh?? India is huge, and you are going to get a few wackos who support any terrorist organisation in the world. Please do not let that judge the rest of billion people. BEsides, what major world terrorists are you talking about? India has been affected badly by most of them.
Indira Gandhi - assassinated by the Sikh extremists
Rajiv Gandhi - assassinated by Sri Lankan extremists
60,000 people killed in Kashmir by Muslim extremists, Al-Quaeda, et al.
Bomb blasts in Bombay, Coimbatore by other Muslim extremists.
Do you think these guys are going to be allowed to walk in to a technology lab., and 'steal' IP secrets? Besides what in hell are they going to do with some ERP software, or some C++ code? I really think you have the wrong view of India. We were victims of terrorism much before the US was. The funny thing is, the US, for all its protests of democracy, refused to help India, and aided Pakistan till a couple of years ago. For some reason they like to deal with military dictatorships outside of the US, rather than democratically elected govts., who have frequent change of plans.
Have fun!!
Are you paranoid, and without a clue!!!
1) Sure the low-caste people have rights. For the last 50 yrs, they have had 'affirmative action'. In Tamil Nadu, 70% of all college seats, government jobs are reserved for the lower castes. Any money flowing into India is going to be spent on essentials, and may be for a few imports. The money pretty much goes straight to the people, and not to some mythical upper-caste people.
2) India has a pretty decent legal system. Not as bad as most other countries, or your the US's bosom buddies Pakistan. Why in hell does India have to have YOUR laws? Do you expect the UK to have your laws? Since you seem to be clueless, may be you think that Europe and the UK have American laws too??!!
3) It's called a free market. So an Indian company cheats once. Do you think that they can get business a second time? Have you heard of companies needing references?
4) Wht the f**k does a background check have to do with any of this? Are you subject to a background check when you join a SW company in the US?
5) Customer Alienation - see free market, 3 above.
6) Any imports that you do are a form of out-sourcing. Let me know when you refuse to buy a PS2, Toyota, BMW, Benz or Nokia.
7) Sure high-tech was leaked to Terrorists - by your bosom pals the Pakistanis. Not by the Indians.
Check up on your facts you troll....
The only place that has a population big enough to take all the jobs is China!!
They CANT go anywhere else!!
India has CDMA running in WLL carriers - Reliance and Tata Indicom.
And while eye-sight was required for survival centuries ago, intelligence is required to survive now. Evolution doesn't need these brothers to be weeded out. Survival of the fittest means that if these brothers survive because of intelligence, then their lives are not worthless for the next generation of humans.
So go back to your cave, troll...
This is bull-shit, please point to some references. All you need to work in India, is a letter of invitation from a company and a work visa. Sure you can't come in on a tourist visa and work. But it is much easier to get a work visa in India than in the USA.
s a- guide.asp for guidelines.
http://www.indianslivingabroad.com/resources/vi
First of all, the Indian Govt. DOES NOT have such a requirement. I don't think there are any computers made in India.
Second of all, while there is a substantial amount of bonded labour - 'slavery', this has NOTHING to do with tech wages!! Sure there might be a bit of wage depression among the very poor, but definitely not massive.
Thirdly, the number of 'untouchables' is now quite small.
Your suggestion for getting rid of slavery and 'untouchability' is forcing the rest of developing India out of the Globabl economy? Not the best way I'm sure. And I'll bet you are happy buying products made by slaves in China (from a recent NYTimes article).
I'm sure you have the noblest intentions in pointing out these problems, but unless you provide a solution, you are merely flamebait.
And though you are not responsible, your fore-fathers in the USA did grow fat on the backs of African slaves. Please do consider the absolute poverty and misery that many third-world countries face. Globalisation is finally pulling India and the third-world out of this. Please don't try to stop this.