>> I just told you you can buy an Advent Vega for £250.
That's $410 USD. So for slightly cheaper than an iPad 2, you get a slightly crappier product. Less battery life, screen not quite as good,build quality not quite as good. Good to have the choice, for sure, but it's not like it's worlds cheaper.
>> The future is convertible laptops. Mark my words.
LOL. You do realize that convertible laptops have been around for 15 years and haven't caught on, right? That was microsoft's big push and it was a gigantic failure. People don't want shitty convertible laptops with flimsy hinges.
>> I bought my Droid 2 last september and noticed exactly what you mention. In 2.3, that's no longer true
Good to hear. The jerky UI performance on Android is what prevented me from getting an Android phone. Love my iphone4 right now, but it's definitely nice to hear that Android is catching up and I can easily switch in the future if Apple's restrictions start to bother me.
>> Apple makes money on their sale up front. Frequently, its based on premium pricing.
Please explain how having the best price in the tablet market is premium pricing.
>> Apple then makes money on warranties which almost never require payouts. Also known as free money
You mean like every single company that offers warranties.
>> Apple then makes lots and lots of money on all the electronics still in service which require battery replacement over the next several years, after the initial two years or so.
Possibly.. I think that number will be pretty small first off.. When the battery is so degraded the device will be quite out of date anyway and most people will just recycle it.
>> People are standing in line to hand them money for absolutely nothing
People are handing them money for an excellent product. People have made the decision that having a thin, sleek device is worth more than a device with a replaceable battery that is twice as thick and has panels and screws like a laptop.
Anyway, there are any number of external battery cases available that make this issue pretty much moot. Want a bulkier device with a replacable battery? Just get a case for it, problem solved.
>>Even a little 50cc scooter only gets a little over 100mpg
A 50cc scooter also has hideous aerodynamics, and the engine is usually going flat out everywhere. The only reason the mileage is pretty good is that they are so small. Look at the new Prius for example. Bigger engine, yet better fuel economy. The aerodynamics are the single biggest factor at highway speeds, and motorcycle aerodynamics are terrible. Not hard to imagine that a streamlined car will do way better.
Well said. Similar situation for me. I used Linux for years, and eventually just got tired of fixing shit. The first time fixing every single problem is a challenge, and as a student I enjoyed picking the system apart and troubleshooting. It was a good experience. But when the wireless breaks again and again. When the video is crappy again and again, eventually it wears you down.
Up until last year I didn't own any mac products and didn't see a need to. Now I have an iMac at home and my faster Windows machine gets turned on maybe once a month. I have a Windows desktop machine at work, but use the Macbook whenever I can. Now I have an iPhone 4 for work, and it is fantastic. The thought that went into every detail is quite extraordinary. We tested the latest Android phones, and while they do most of the same things, they aren't anywhere close to the iPhone. I see it the same as for MP3 players and the iPod. When the iPod was released all the other mp3 players were arguably better from a features perspective. And yet the iPod dominated very quickly. Ease of use and thoughtful design beats raw features every time.
>> That leaves you with the people whose contracts are almost up and haven't upgraded. Around here (Boston), that's a fairly small number
Bahaha. What, did you conduct a survey of the people of Boston? "My 3 friends don't plan on upgrading so therefore no one in Boston is planning to upgrade".
Which conference are you at? I assume you're talking about apps like Proloquo2go?
We're currently working on allowing the iPad/iPhone be controlled with alternative input devices for people with disabilities. Would be interested to hear about what in that area was discussed at the conference.
>> Sorry but admiring Google for no longer censoring is like admiring someone for no longer beating their child.
That's not a good analogy at all. Much better would be to say "Admiring Google for no longer censoring is like admiring the one person that stopped beating their child, while everyone else continues to do so."
We might not actually admire them, since we don't personally do business in China, so we can feel morally superior, but amongst their peers Google is doing an admirable thing.
Nice story about how you would pull out all the stops to save your family, but it is also unlikely. Unless you are independently wealthy, what is more likely to happen is that they get sick, and the costs quickly drain all your resources, and then they die.
Still happy with not taking help from the government? If you are, then fine, but I'd rather live in a world where my family doesn't die just because they get some expensive disease that might overwhelm our resources. I don't mind in the least bit that to have that privilege I pay some taxes to support others in their time of need. Just like I pay taxes for the government to do other things that I will never benefit from, but others will.
>> I'm sorry you have cancer but does that give you the right to force me, at the point of a gun, to pay for your care?
Well yes. Not at the point of a gun, but at the point of the law. That's what modern societies do. They take care of their less fortunate citizens. I suspect if you got cancer and couldn't pay for the treatment you would appreciate it if society had your back.
Your suggestion of saving money is hilarious. Plenty of people don't have the opportunity or time to save for their horrendously expensive illnesses. You're seriously saying we should just let them die? Ridiculous.
>> The republicans (as well as 30+ democrats) are against this bill because it is a pile of shit
I'm sure that some, or even most republicans are against the bill because they really believe that it is not going to be good for Americans. However many are just voting no to toe the party line, and to bring down the democrats. The democrat side shows that some people have legitimate problems with the bill and will vote against it and their own party for that reason, but there is no way that every single republican thinks the bill is a huge failure and wouldn't vote for it if parties didn't exist. If there's one thing conservatives are good at, it's presenting a unified front. The problem is that they are not acting in the best interests of the country with their political bickering.
>> Batman. I am diabetic. I have lived without insurance. I always paid my doctor bills and prescription costs.
Good for you that you had the money. Lots of people don't through no fault of their own.
Sure you can. If Microsoft wants to replace Flash then they damn well should be supporting Linux. If they don't then they shouldn't be surprised that some people will avoid Silverlight. It's not the communities' job to do Microsoft's porting work for them, just like Adobe doesn't expect the community to write a Linux flash client.
>> in Android you never close an application, you just switch to a new one. When the system runs out of resources it politely asks non-running background apps to close (and then if necessary it kills them).
How does that work? The only thing I can imagine worse than not supporting multitasking is supporting it, and then randomly killing background tasks when you run out of resources. I'm sure it doesn't work quite like that, but I can't find more info about exactly how android supports multitasking.
>> Don't even try to convince me that downloading a large file from the internet means I shouldn't be able to listen to music, or write a text message.
You can listen to music at the same time as doing other stuff on the iPhone/iPad. I suspect you'll be able to stay connected to IM networks as well while doing other stuff. Instead of taking the easy way out, Apple are actually thinking about how to solve the problems of multitasking in a better way. They're not there yet, but I think getting there is only a software update away, and lots of people are already happy with the current model of "just work".
Maybe, maybe not. I really don't care. I'm not playing any of the games I played 10 years ago anymore, so I really don't care if my current games are accessible that long.
Funny thing though, I just picked up and played the Secret of Monkey Island on Steam for $2.50. Ancient game, cool new graphics, fun little diversion. I wouldn't spend the time replaying Civilization 1 or something in its original form though. Games progress, and 10 years is about their expiration date for me.
>> steam imposes drm; you're stupid for putting up with it and you're stupid for encouraging it.
I couldn't care less. Steam is cheaper (tons of sales, I've gotten plenty of games for 75% off), far more convenient (no physical cds to juggle, no updates to keep track of, synch to diff computers, no concern about backing your games up).
Any game for any platform is DRM'd to no end these days. Steam doesn't add shit to that, it just makes it less intrusive. Steam is the best thing to ever happen to PC gaming. Makes it almost as straightforward as console gaming.
>> you don't actually own the games you pay for on steam
Bullshit I don't. I can still play every game I ever bought on Steam, which is all that matters, and more than I can say for many games I've bought (that came on floppies or CDs that scratched).
>>Don't hate the game, hate the stupid, stupid players who spend actual money on it.
Why are they stupid? I bet most people here have spent money on games. I spent a few hundred buying games through Steam, does that make me stupid? How is spending money to get in-game items for a free game any dumber than spending money to buy a game in the first place? In both cases you get nothing that has any relevance in real life, and in both cases you do it for entertainment. I don't play Farmville, but just like the Sim* series was popular I can see the attraction, and if a tractor helps you along in the game I can see the logic in paying for it with real money, just like back in the day I bought SimCity with real money.
>> it is the advertisement itself that is the problem.
I think it's taxes that are the problem! If I want to be paying money to someone else I'll go give to a charity, not have my money taken from me by force by the government!
Ads support the free internet, there's no ifs, ands or buts about it. If you are so opposed to ads that you refuse to have even non-intrusive ones on your page, then you're nothing but a leech. A worse "parasite" than you describe the marketing people to be. Hosting content costs money. You don't want to pay? Get the fuck off the internet.
>> What would be the point? You see, I actually have spent some time reading through the leaked data and email. The whole game is rigged.
Yeah, because the _entire_ community of climate scientists is one big evil cabal that locks out anyone that dares to challenge their views. My god this is stupid. Just like every other conspiracy theory that is based on thousands of people keeping their mouth shut and working together for some great unknown motivation.
If you could at least come up with a motivation for such massive conspiracy... but no, it's just evil scientists that don't want to be wrong and want to ruin the world instead. Cause that's likely...
Technically true, but I don't know of any carrier where you can show up with a phone and get a discount on their plans, so realistically yes, the phone is free. Or rather, the cost of the free phones is built into their plans and you have no way of getting that cost back regardless of whether you have a phone already or not.
My phone was free. Same with my last phone and the one before that.
>> 2. Your cell phone was probably subsidized by your cell phone company, if you bought it new. Try buying a new cell phone without a plan, and no subsidy. they'll be more than $10.
Of course, but that doesn't change that you can get them free from many companies. Can I get a subsidized Rolex anywhere?
>> 3. I don't need to recharge my wrist watch every few days. How many days can you talk on your cell phone run without a recharge?
About a week. Not really an issue unless you're out in the wilderness for a long time, and then I don't give a shit about what time it is.
>> 4. Does your cell phone fit conveniently on your wrist like a watch? Or would you have to duct-tape it?
Having something strapped to my wrist is anything but convenient. It can get caught on stuff, I have to take it off and put it back on several times a day (showers, bed, etc).
>> 5. Is your cell phone as light as a watch?
Pretty damn close if you're talking about a quality mechanical watch + strap. Either way it's not an inconvenience.
>> 6. Can you make calls on your cell phone without some sort of plan, even if it's pay-as-you-go? I can still tell time with my watch - no plan needed.
That's retarded. I can tell time without a plan but a watch can never make a call.
>> 7. My watch doesn't have "dead zones" where it stops telling time. Does your cell phone have dead zones where you can't make calls?
No. I've never owned a phone that wouldn't tell the time without service. I'm sure such a braindamaged phone does exist, but that's not the norm.
>> 8. I don't have to worry about my watch interrupting an important meeting with an embarrassing ring-tone.
Ever owned a digital watch with an alarm? They do the same thing.
>> 9. If someone steals my watch, I don't have to worry that they have a lot of my contacts.
Password protect your phone or don't store your contacts in there if you're so paranoid.
>> 10. A thief can't run u a big bill for me on my watch.
Not an issue if you cancel your plan when you notice your phone's missing.
>> 11. I don't have to back up my watch.
I also don't have to back up my cat. Doesn't mean it's relevant to the discussion.
>> 12. It's legal to look at my watch while driving.
Your car doesn't have a clock? Why would you need to look at either of them to tell the time?
Yes, and even in Windows 7 it is still just as fantastically useless as it ever was. I use it to launch a grand total of three commands: cmd, calc, and regedit
>> The search box in the start menu is much more functional, as it also searches recent documents, and installed applications.
Yes, this is what the run dialogs of Gnome and KDE (and spotlight in OSX) have done for a long time. Also internet shortcuts, simple calculations, etc etc.
>> Honestly, I really like Win7's desktop/gui.
Yup. It's too bad that the widgets are still less integrated than they could be, but overall it is pretty nice. Window management is pretty decent (even though that stupid 2.5D flip is still useless), and things generally do what you expect them to do. Certainly more than "good enough".
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>> I just told you you can buy an Advent Vega for £250.
That's $410 USD. So for slightly cheaper than an iPad 2, you get a slightly crappier product. Less battery life, screen not quite as good,build quality not quite as good. Good to have the choice, for sure, but it's not like it's worlds cheaper.
>> It's called Archos 43 and it sells for $250.
So a much smaller, much slower device with worse battery life is cheaper? SHOCKING!
>> The future is convertible laptops. Mark my words.
LOL. You do realize that convertible laptops have been around for 15 years and haven't caught on, right? That was microsoft's big push and it was a gigantic failure. People don't want shitty convertible laptops with flimsy hinges.
>> I bought my Droid 2 last september and noticed exactly what you mention. In 2.3, that's no longer true
Good to hear. The jerky UI performance on Android is what prevented me from getting an Android phone. Love my iphone4 right now, but it's definitely nice to hear that Android is catching up and I can easily switch in the future if Apple's restrictions start to bother me.
>> Apple makes money on their sale up front. Frequently, its based on premium pricing.
Please explain how having the best price in the tablet market is premium pricing.
>> Apple then makes money on warranties which almost never require payouts. Also known as free money
You mean like every single company that offers warranties.
>> Apple then makes lots and lots of money on all the electronics still in service which require battery replacement over the next several years, after the initial two years or so.
Possibly.. I think that number will be pretty small first off.. When the battery is so degraded the device will be quite out of date anyway and most people will just recycle it.
>> People are standing in line to hand them money for absolutely nothing
People are handing them money for an excellent product. People have made the decision that having a thin, sleek device is worth more than a device with a replaceable battery that is twice as thick and has panels and screws like a laptop.
Anyway, there are any number of external battery cases available that make this issue pretty much moot. Want a bulkier device with a replacable battery? Just get a case for it, problem solved.
>> USB port
It's not a computer. Buy a laptop
>> wireless syncing
Learn to read: http://www.businessinsider.com/no-more-wires-sync-content-from-computer-to-ipad-2-wirelessly-2011-3
>> lower price
Are you high? The iPad is already way cheaper than any competing device. A device with comparable specs, the Xoom is far more expensive.
>>Even a little 50cc scooter only gets a little over 100mpg
A 50cc scooter also has hideous aerodynamics, and the engine is usually going flat out everywhere. The only reason the mileage is pretty good is that they are so small. Look at the new Prius for example. Bigger engine, yet better fuel economy. The aerodynamics are the single biggest factor at highway speeds, and motorcycle aerodynamics are terrible. Not hard to imagine that a streamlined car will do way better.
Well said. Similar situation for me. I used Linux for years, and eventually just got tired of fixing shit. The first time fixing every single problem is a challenge, and as a student I enjoyed picking the system apart and troubleshooting. It was a good experience. But when the wireless breaks again and again. When the video is crappy again and again, eventually it wears you down.
Up until last year I didn't own any mac products and didn't see a need to. Now I have an iMac at home and my faster Windows machine gets turned on maybe once a month. I have a Windows desktop machine at work, but use the Macbook whenever I can. Now I have an iPhone 4 for work, and it is fantastic. The thought that went into every detail is quite extraordinary. We tested the latest Android phones, and while they do most of the same things, they aren't anywhere close to the iPhone. I see it the same as for MP3 players and the iPod. When the iPod was released all the other mp3 players were arguably better from a features perspective. And yet the iPod dominated very quickly. Ease of use and thoughtful design beats raw features every time.
>> That leaves you with the people whose contracts are almost up and haven't upgraded. Around here (Boston), that's a fairly small number
Bahaha. What, did you conduct a survey of the people of Boston?
"My 3 friends don't plan on upgrading so therefore no one in Boston is planning to upgrade".
>> 1) We're already locked in 1-2 year contracts so we're not going to pay $500 for a new phone
Uhh.. There is a constant swarm of people with contracts expiring. What a stupid thing to say.
>> 2) Verizon and Apple will likely not give many price breaks
This makes no sense. Of course there will be huge incentives for contracts, just like with any other phone.
>> 3) AT&T users may jump ship, but that's only to Verizon's benefit
That's half the equation, yes. The other half is verizon customers wanting an iPhone.
>> 4) Android has a full set of applications and is a much more open format.
iPhone has way more apps, and the "openness" means precisely nothing to 99% of regular customers.
Which conference are you at? I assume you're talking about apps like Proloquo2go?
We're currently working on allowing the iPad/iPhone be controlled with alternative input devices for people with disabilities. Would be interested to hear about what in that area was discussed at the conference.
>> Sorry but admiring Google for no longer censoring is like admiring someone for no longer beating their child.
That's not a good analogy at all. Much better would be to say "Admiring Google for no longer censoring is like admiring the one person that stopped beating their child, while everyone else continues to do so."
We might not actually admire them, since we don't personally do business in China, so we can feel morally superior, but amongst their peers Google is doing an admirable thing.
Nice story about how you would pull out all the stops to save your family, but it is also unlikely. Unless you are independently wealthy, what is more likely to happen is that they get sick, and the costs quickly drain all your resources, and then they die.
Still happy with not taking help from the government? If you are, then fine, but I'd rather live in a world where my family doesn't die just because they get some expensive disease that might overwhelm our resources. I don't mind in the least bit that to have that privilege I pay some taxes to support others in their time of need. Just like I pay taxes for the government to do other things that I will never benefit from, but others will.
>> I'm sorry you have cancer but does that give you the right to force me, at the point of a gun, to pay for your care?
Well yes. Not at the point of a gun, but at the point of the law.
That's what modern societies do. They take care of their less fortunate citizens. I suspect if you got cancer and couldn't pay for the treatment you would appreciate it if society had your back.
Your suggestion of saving money is hilarious. Plenty of people don't have the opportunity or time to save for their horrendously expensive illnesses. You're seriously saying we should just let them die? Ridiculous.
>> The republicans (as well as 30+ democrats) are against this bill because it is a pile of shit
I'm sure that some, or even most republicans are against the bill because they really believe that it is not going to be good for Americans. However many are just voting no to toe the party line, and to bring down the democrats. The democrat side shows that some people have legitimate problems with the bill and will vote against it and their own party for that reason, but there is no way that every single republican thinks the bill is a huge failure and wouldn't vote for it if parties didn't exist. If there's one thing conservatives are good at, it's presenting a unified front. The problem is that they are not acting in the best interests of the country with their political bickering.
>> Batman. I am diabetic. I have lived without insurance. I always paid my doctor bills and prescription costs.
Good for you that you had the money. Lots of people don't through no fault of their own.
Sure you can. If Microsoft wants to replace Flash then they damn well should be supporting Linux. If they don't then they shouldn't be surprised that some people will avoid Silverlight. It's not the communities' job to do Microsoft's porting work for them, just like Adobe doesn't expect the community to write a Linux flash client.
>> in Android you never close an application, you just switch to a new one. When the system runs out of resources it politely asks non-running background apps to close (and then if necessary it kills them).
How does that work? The only thing I can imagine worse than not supporting multitasking is supporting it, and then randomly killing background tasks when you run out of resources. I'm sure it doesn't work quite like that, but I can't find more info about exactly how android supports multitasking.
>> Don't even try to convince me that downloading a large file from the internet means I shouldn't be able to listen to music, or write a text message.
You can listen to music at the same time as doing other stuff on the iPhone/iPad. I suspect you'll be able to stay connected to IM networks as well while doing other stuff. Instead of taking the easy way out, Apple are actually thinking about how to solve the problems of multitasking in a better way. They're not there yet, but I think getting there is only a software update away, and lots of people are already happy with the current model of "just work".
Maybe, maybe not. I really don't care. I'm not playing any of the games I played 10 years ago anymore, so I really don't care if my current games are accessible that long.
Funny thing though, I just picked up and played the Secret of Monkey Island on Steam for $2.50. Ancient game, cool new graphics, fun little diversion. I wouldn't spend the time replaying Civilization 1 or something in its original form though. Games progress, and 10 years is about their expiration date for me.
>> steam imposes drm; you're stupid for putting up with it and you're stupid for encouraging it.
I couldn't care less. Steam is cheaper (tons of sales, I've gotten plenty of games for 75% off), far more convenient (no physical cds to juggle, no updates to keep track of, synch to diff computers, no concern about backing your games up).
Any game for any platform is DRM'd to no end these days. Steam doesn't add shit to that, it just makes it less intrusive. Steam is the best thing to ever happen to PC gaming. Makes it almost as straightforward as console gaming.
>> you don't actually own the games you pay for on steam
Bullshit I don't. I can still play every game I ever bought on Steam, which is all that matters, and more than I can say for many games I've bought (that came on floppies or CDs that scratched).
>>Don't hate the game, hate the stupid, stupid players who spend actual money on it.
Why are they stupid? I bet most people here have spent money on games. I spent a few hundred buying games through Steam, does that make me stupid? How is spending money to get in-game items for a free game any dumber than spending money to buy a game in the first place? In both cases you get nothing that has any relevance in real life, and in both cases you do it for entertainment.
I don't play Farmville, but just like the Sim* series was popular I can see the attraction, and if a tractor helps you along in the game I can see the logic in paying for it with real money, just like back in the day I bought SimCity with real money.
>> it is the advertisement itself that is the problem.
I think it's taxes that are the problem! If I want to be paying money to someone else I'll go give to a charity, not have my money taken from me by force by the government!
Ads support the free internet, there's no ifs, ands or buts about it. If you are so opposed to ads that you refuse to have even non-intrusive ones on your page, then you're nothing but a leech. A worse "parasite" than you describe the marketing people to be.
Hosting content costs money. You don't want to pay? Get the fuck off the internet.
>> What would be the point? You see, I actually have spent some time reading through the leaked data and email. The whole game is rigged.
Yeah, because the _entire_ community of climate scientists is one big evil cabal that locks out anyone that dares to challenge their views. My god this is stupid. Just like every other conspiracy theory that is based on thousands of people keeping their mouth shut and working together for some great unknown motivation.
If you could at least come up with a motivation for such massive conspiracy... but no, it's just evil scientists that don't want to be wrong and want to ruin the world instead. Cause that's likely...
Technically true, but I don't know of any carrier where you can show up with a phone and get a discount on their plans, so realistically yes, the phone is free. Or rather, the cost of the free phones is built into their plans and you have no way of getting that cost back regardless of whether you have a phone already or not.
>> 1. GBP 10 is not $10.
My phone was free. Same with my last phone and the one before that.
>> 2. Your cell phone was probably subsidized by your cell phone company, if you bought it new. Try buying a new cell phone without a plan, and no subsidy. they'll be more than $10.
Of course, but that doesn't change that you can get them free from many companies. Can I get a subsidized Rolex anywhere?
>> 3. I don't need to recharge my wrist watch every few days. How many days can you talk on your cell phone run without a recharge?
About a week. Not really an issue unless you're out in the wilderness for a long time, and then I don't give a shit about what time it is.
>> 4. Does your cell phone fit conveniently on your wrist like a watch? Or would you have to duct-tape it?
Having something strapped to my wrist is anything but convenient. It can get caught on stuff, I have to take it off and put it back on several times a day (showers, bed, etc).
>> 5. Is your cell phone as light as a watch?
Pretty damn close if you're talking about a quality mechanical watch + strap. Either way it's not an inconvenience.
>> 6. Can you make calls on your cell phone without some sort of plan, even if it's pay-as-you-go? I can still tell time with my watch - no plan needed.
That's retarded. I can tell time without a plan but a watch can never make a call.
>> 7. My watch doesn't have "dead zones" where it stops telling time. Does your cell phone have dead zones where you can't make calls?
No. I've never owned a phone that wouldn't tell the time without service. I'm sure such a braindamaged phone does exist, but that's not the norm.
>> 8. I don't have to worry about my watch interrupting an important meeting with an embarrassing ring-tone.
Ever owned a digital watch with an alarm? They do the same thing.
>> 9. If someone steals my watch, I don't have to worry that they have a lot of my contacts.
Password protect your phone or don't store your contacts in there if you're so paranoid.
>> 10. A thief can't run u a big bill for me on my watch.
Not an issue if you cancel your plan when you notice your phone's missing.
>> 11. I don't have to back up my watch.
I also don't have to back up my cat. Doesn't mean it's relevant to the discussion.
>> 12. It's legal to look at my watch while driving.
Your car doesn't have a clock? Why would you need to look at either of them to tell the time?
>> SUPER+R has been in windows since Win9x
Yes, and even in Windows 7 it is still just as fantastically useless as it ever was. I use it to launch a grand total of three commands: cmd, calc, and regedit
>> The search box in the start menu is much more functional, as it also searches recent documents, and installed applications.
Yes, this is what the run dialogs of Gnome and KDE (and spotlight in OSX) have done for a long time. Also internet shortcuts, simple calculations, etc etc.
>> Honestly, I really like Win7's desktop/gui.
Yup. It's too bad that the widgets are still less integrated than they could be, but overall it is pretty nice. Window management is pretty decent (even though that stupid 2.5D flip is still useless), and things generally do what you expect them to do. Certainly more than "good enough".