Let me know when you have Vista running in 32MB of ram.:-)
On an ARM processor.
In the snow, uphill both ways.
But seriously, Vista is not a step forwards in OS technology. They're just taking more resources to accomplish the SAME GOALS. Sure it may accomplish them with more glitter and what not, but fundamentally that's no better.
Mmm monad, totally incompatible with any other shell out there making all your hard work vendor locked in.
Yes, that's progress.
Why couldn't they just extend the typical UNIX shell environment? So at least you could fall back to something that is portable? Oh right, microsoft...
Same here. I run Windows to write my book only, which wasn't my choice and I'm not doing it again. My next book [though I dunno if Syngress will want to publish it] will be totally in LaTeX again so I can actually control what the book looks like as I write it. Well that and I can write the book in Win32, BSD, Linux, MacOS, whatever. I'm won't be tied to Windows to run... shudder... word.
1. crappy tab name completion [totally inconsistent with the style expected out of UNIX like OSes] 2. lack of mouse support [like highlight to copy] 3. lack of `` support 4. lack of #! support [sometimes you want to change the interpretter] 5. Pipes are not binary by default 6. The window is not resizable without clicking on a bunch of menu options
It's not just cmd.exe though, it lacks the coreutils that you really need to make the environment useful. commands like find, awk, sed, tr, cut, grep, etc, etc, etc.
For instance, with a single command line I can rename all the files of the format
MYFILE2005_0001, MYFILE2005_0002, etc...
to
myfiles_2005_01, etc, etc,
Which you think is contrived but I've had cases where I had filenames like filename.wav.mp3. How do you rename 100 files like that in Windows without manual labor or writing a program in C?
In bash [and most other shells] it's simply
for f in *.wav.mp3; do mv -v $f `echo $f | sed -e 's/wav\.mp3/mp3/'`; done
Another popular thing todo is
find . -type f | grep [.]o | xargs -n1 rm -fv
To say, clean up a source tree of all your objects. That's something you can't do in cmd.exe.
etc, etc, etc.
As for Express, I've had mixed experiences with their non-pro VSes. I have a 2002 CD set that comes with the IDE, C#, VB and C++ compilers but none of them support optimizations. I had to glue the VC++ 2003 demo [which has optimizations] on to my install to get it to work. The 2003 demo doesn't include LIB or NMAKE which makes it useless for large scale projects.
I have no idea what their 2005 demos include but they probably found another way to cripple it.
I like their IDE but their compiler is horrible. GCC 4.1.x is so much f'ing better [even gcc 3.4.6 is much better]. Why would I shell out money to be a legit developer [you can't use their express stuff commercially] when mingw, cygwin or god forbid just using GNU/Linux would save me the trouble and money?
cmd.exe is not a shell, it's a system() interface. sh [bash, tcsh, ksh] is a real shell.
Visual C++ Express is not a complete solution. It doesn't come with various tools such as nmake or the IDE [which is basically the only really good thing in VS anyways].
If you're a halfway serious developer you need cygwin installed to get a more proper environment.
That's like putting innocent people in prison because someone may violate the law.
DRM takes away your rights and freedoms to protect against the minority who would infringe on their [producers] rights.
The very real fact is that the government grants you copyright protection which INCLUDES fair use. DRM is a way of abusing the monopoly of copyright without honouring the other side of the deal. In all honesty, DRM applied to copyrighted works should be illegal. It isn't. Hmm, I wonder why that is...
Your reason doesn't discount the very likely possibility that people make software for Linux.... posted from a Gentoo workstation where I serve databases, host users [e.g. builds and computing], work on presentations, play games and write books...
Reason #1. It's from Microsoft Reason #2. It's been delayed 5 times and still won't die Reason #3: Fundamentally no better than XP Reason #4: Still no shell Reason #5: Or compiler Reason #6: Takes more space then it really ought to Reason #7: New added value bonus DRM compliance goodies!
...
Reason #76: It takes more memory than a weather simulation of Earth just to show the desktop Reason #77: "Ultimate Edition" Reason #78: Annoying Startup Sounds
Hint: use your company email system. It's harder [or less plausible] to say "but he said $X" when the email records say you said $y.
Failing that, ask her in public where others can here.
Failing that, don't go alone anyways. Say "a few of us are hitting the pub, wanna join?" It's less likely to be construed as a date if you're bringing a few other male/female friends along.
Oh what the fuck do I know, I only work with males:-(
"my 360 caught on fire, all I did was wrap it in a shag carpet, douse it in petrol and stick it in the microwave, that's totally normal usage!"
Look people, it's call ventilation. I don't care how cool your heatsink is, or how many LEDs you have in the front of the case. If the air doesn't move over the components they'll heat up. Heat up being "additive". Given enough time they do the nasty [usually just cause a crash via PCI lockups or memory corrupt etc].
So how about you [you==stupid people] stop overclocking your shit, air out the damn case and MOVE OUT OF YOUR PARENTS BASEMENT!.
My point is that poser wannabe asshats idolize them for all the wrong reasons.
It takes smarts, courage and persistence to go counter-culture. For that, I praise the two.
However, they are NOT why the scene is so cool. Look at Hurd. mmm dead duck. How many people work on that? Right. And yeah, LT may maintain the master 2.6 branch but he's not the one contributing the neato features that make Linux worth knowing about.
I think being ignorant and just [incorrectly] blabbing that without LT or RMS that the scene would be dead is just plain stupid, wrong and does the whole mass of people involved an injustice.
First off, RMS is not the first person to think about free software. He's just well organized. At the time he thought that up [83] software was still a new concept and barely a household word. Given enough time other people would have came to the same conclusions, which btw, is why he's so well supported.
Similarly, LT is not the first person to write a homebrew kernel. He's just well motivated. He did a LOT of the original work going upto v1 and v2. But as we moved to 2.2, 2.4 and 2.6 more and more the scene took over.
So yeah, great, I thank them for getting the ball rolling. But moreso, I thank the scene for participating. Because I'm not an ignorant fanboi and I realize that there is more to the OSS scene than two middle aged hackers.
Ok, but where is the hero worship for K&R the inventors C which both are written in?
Or the worship for the inventors of the hardware which C originally was developed for, or the computer in general, transistor, etc... It's all a fad. Personally I'd rather let the community as a whole know that their work means something than just Linus or RMS.
Not that I don't think they're not important. But given the current situtation, today, they're less important now than ever.
Tell you what. You go pick up Linux 0.95 and GCC v1 and tell me how useful they are.
Sure they had the fortitude and forsight to stick with and bring to life the projects.
*golf clap*
But they are NOT the reason the respective projects are of any use today. That'd go out to the COMMUNITY. If you want to praise anything, praise the scene. Without the 1000s of developers involved in free software we'd still be using WinXP as the only kernel.
Misplaced hero worshiping. Also the more you prop up the celeb-de-jour and try to be a part of the scene the cooler you are by association.
Like if I'm a linux nazi, and I praise Linus in all his glory, then obviously I'm "with it" for being a linux nazi. Basically these people have to realize that you either are or are not cool. You can't make yourself cool by association.
Well that and people should REALLY take a look at who actually works on Linux and GNU software. It ain't Linus nor RMS.
How about I cite someone who may cite someone who cites a paper which cites a person who cited the original news article in which the treaty was cited?
Hey if it's enough for the NES, Gameboy, GBA, SNES, Gamegear, Sega Master System, Sega Genesis, Original PC, most pocket organizers, wrist watches, VCRs, automated robots, door locks, garage door openers, bank machines, your mother, optical mice, printers, monitors, FAX machines, VoIP phones and smart cards, it's good enough for me.
You can't call 32-bit code [that is, code compiled with 32-bit pointers and registers in mind] directly from a 64-bit application. Even if you don't use 4GB of memory you still have 64-bit pointers [well 48-bit on AMD64]. Then you have registers. The ABI [application binary interface] for x86_64 specifies that you pass a certain # of arguments as registers and not on the stack, etc.
You need a "thunking" layer to call 32-bit code [like WoW... er Windows on Windows when 16-bit device drivers were the norm].
Assuming Flash isn't all spaghetti code it should really be a matter of just rebuilding with a 64-bit compiler against 64-bit libraries.
I'd say most people who have "duplicated" [it's not piracy, yarr AVAST ye matey!] movies wouldn't physically shoplift from a store or otherwise.
Why is that?
Could it be they'd feel guilty?
Ok, so why don't they feel guilty about duplicating movies? Could it be the actors [representatives of the movie in all honesty] are overpaid liberal pussies? Nobody really thinks about the catering, camera, rig, grip, etc other people that go into a movie. The mindset is, the actors are rich they can afford me not to pay for this copy.
And in all honesty, fuck them. I'm so tired of hearing about a movie that rakes in 300M dollars and then to hear about how "the studio stole all the profits" or "the stunt men only get 50K/yr". If every product I made got me 300M a year I'd pay myself fairly. Maybe if the studios and "A-list" actors stopped stealing all the profits we'd be set.
I just don't get why we live in a world where an actor can make 20M on some movie, but a doctor who reconstructs your heart makes only 100-200K/yr?
Yeah, but even the average user has to install 3rd party apps. The claim that "you have to hunt down stuff to use the OS" is only a Linux fault [if you can call it that] is a myth.
Windows out of the box is totally useless. That's the beauty of it. You can't do anything but write.txt files and play solitaire.
At least a Fedora or Ubuntu installer CD gives you the same [and more] and doesn't cost hundreds of dollars.
Slashdot Mirror
They wanted to add a charge under the guise of some FCC fee after the fee was eliminated?
Sounds about right. Who's the terrorist now?
Tom
Let me know when you have Vista running in 32MB of ram. :-)
On an ARM processor.
In the snow, uphill both ways.
But seriously, Vista is not a step forwards in OS technology. They're just taking more resources to accomplish the SAME GOALS. Sure it may accomplish them with more glitter and what not, but fundamentally that's no better.
Tom
Mmm monad, totally incompatible with any other shell out there making all your hard work vendor locked in.
Yes, that's progress.
Why couldn't they just extend the typical UNIX shell environment? So at least you could fall back to something that is portable? Oh right, microsoft...
Tom
Same here. I run Windows to write my book only, which wasn't my choice and I'm not doing it again. My next book [though I dunno if Syngress will want to publish it] will be totally in LaTeX again so I can actually control what the book looks like as I write it. Well that and I can write the book in Win32, BSD, Linux, MacOS, whatever. I'm won't be tied to Windows to run ... shudder ... word.
Tom
Um, let's see... what's wrong with cmd.exe
1. crappy tab name completion [totally inconsistent with the style expected out of UNIX like OSes]
2. lack of mouse support [like highlight to copy]
3. lack of `` support
4. lack of #! support [sometimes you want to change the interpretter]
5. Pipes are not binary by default
6. The window is not resizable without clicking on a bunch of menu options
It's not just cmd.exe though, it lacks the coreutils that you really need to make the environment useful. commands like find, awk, sed, tr, cut, grep, etc, etc, etc.
For instance, with a single command line I can rename all the files of the format
MYFILE2005_0001, MYFILE2005_0002, etc...
to
myfiles_2005_01, etc, etc,
Which you think is contrived but I've had cases where I had filenames like filename.wav.mp3. How do you rename 100 files like that in Windows without manual labor or writing a program in C?
In bash [and most other shells] it's simply
for f in *.wav.mp3; do mv -v $f `echo $f | sed -e 's/wav\.mp3/mp3/'`; done
Another popular thing todo is
find . -type f | grep [.]o | xargs -n1 rm -fv
To say, clean up a source tree of all your objects. That's something you can't do in cmd.exe.
etc, etc, etc.
As for Express, I've had mixed experiences with their non-pro VSes. I have a 2002 CD set that comes with the IDE, C#, VB and C++ compilers but none of them support optimizations. I had to glue the VC++ 2003 demo [which has optimizations] on to my install to get it to work. The 2003 demo doesn't include LIB or NMAKE which makes it useless for large scale projects.
I have no idea what their 2005 demos include but they probably found another way to cripple it.
I like their IDE but their compiler is horrible. GCC 4.1.x is so much f'ing better [even gcc 3.4.6 is much better]. Why would I shell out money to be a legit developer [you can't use their express stuff commercially] when mingw, cygwin or god forbid just using GNU/Linux would save me the trouble and money?
Tom
cmd.exe is not a shell, it's a system() interface. sh [bash, tcsh, ksh] is a real shell.
Visual C++ Express is not a complete solution. It doesn't come with various tools such as nmake or the IDE [which is basically the only really good thing in VS anyways].
If you're a halfway serious developer you need cygwin installed to get a more proper environment.
Tom
I was using hyperbole. I guess if I really sat down I could come up with 78 things I hate about XP/Vista.
Meet me at Toorcon at the end of Sept and we'll compare notes.
Tom
That's like putting innocent people in prison because someone may violate the law.
DRM takes away your rights and freedoms to protect against the minority who would infringe on their [producers] rights.
The very real fact is that the government grants you copyright protection which INCLUDES fair use. DRM is a way of abusing the monopoly of copyright without honouring the other side of the deal. In all honesty, DRM applied to copyrighted works should be illegal. It isn't. Hmm, I wonder why that is...
Tom
Your reason doesn't discount the very likely possibility that people make software for Linux. ... posted from a Gentoo workstation where I serve databases, host users [e.g. builds and computing], work on presentations, play games and write books ...
Tom
Imagine a vendor who has absolutely no respect for you as a human being. That's someone who uses DRM.
Next!
Tom
Reason #1. It's from Microsoft
Reason #2. It's been delayed 5 times and still won't die
Reason #3: Fundamentally no better than XP
Reason #4: Still no shell
Reason #5: Or compiler
Reason #6: Takes more space then it really ought to
Reason #7: New added value bonus DRM compliance goodies!
...
Reason #76: It takes more memory than a weather simulation of Earth just to show the desktop
Reason #77: "Ultimate Edition"
Reason #78: Annoying Startup Sounds
Tom
Hint: use your company email system. It's harder [or less plausible] to say "but he said $X" when the email records say you said $y.
:-(
Failing that, ask her in public where others can here.
Failing that, don't go alone anyways. Say "a few of us are hitting the pub, wanna join?" It's less likely to be construed as a date if you're bringing a few other male/female friends along.
Oh what the fuck do I know, I only work with males
Tom
that or the other usual suspects...
"my 360 caught on fire, all I did was wrap it in a shag carpet, douse it in petrol and stick it in the microwave, that's totally normal usage!"
Look people, it's call ventilation. I don't care how cool your heatsink is, or how many LEDs you have in the front of the case. If the air doesn't move over the components they'll heat up. Heat up being "additive". Given enough time they do the nasty [usually just cause a crash via PCI lockups or memory corrupt etc].
So how about you [you==stupid people] stop overclocking your shit, air out the damn case and MOVE OUT OF YOUR PARENTS BASEMENT!.
Tom
My point is that poser wannabe asshats idolize them for all the wrong reasons.
It takes smarts, courage and persistence to go counter-culture. For that, I praise the two.
However, they are NOT why the scene is so cool. Look at Hurd. mmm dead duck. How many people work on that? Right. And yeah, LT may maintain the master 2.6 branch but he's not the one contributing the neato features that make Linux worth knowing about.
I think being ignorant and just [incorrectly] blabbing that without LT or RMS that the scene would be dead is just plain stupid, wrong and does the whole mass of people involved an injustice.
First off, RMS is not the first person to think about free software. He's just well organized. At the time he thought that up [83] software was still a new concept and barely a household word. Given enough time other people would have came to the same conclusions, which btw, is why he's so well supported.
Similarly, LT is not the first person to write a homebrew kernel. He's just well motivated. He did a LOT of the original work going upto v1 and v2. But as we moved to 2.2, 2.4 and 2.6 more and more the scene took over.
So yeah, great, I thank them for getting the ball rolling. But moreso, I thank the scene for participating. Because I'm not an ignorant fanboi and I realize that there is more to the OSS scene than two middle aged hackers.
Tom
Ok, but where is the hero worship for K&R the inventors C which both are written in?
Or the worship for the inventors of the hardware which C originally was developed for, or the computer in general, transistor, etc... It's all a fad. Personally I'd rather let the community as a whole know that their work means something than just Linus or RMS.
Not that I don't think they're not important. But given the current situtation, today, they're less important now than ever.
Tom
Tell you what. You go pick up Linux 0.95 and GCC v1 and tell me how useful they are.
Sure they had the fortitude and forsight to stick with and bring to life the projects.
*golf clap*
But they are NOT the reason the respective projects are of any use today. That'd go out to the COMMUNITY. If you want to praise anything, praise the scene. Without the 1000s of developers involved in free software we'd still be using WinXP as the only kernel.
Tom
Misplaced hero worshiping. Also the more you prop up the celeb-de-jour and try to be a part of the scene the cooler you are by association.
Like if I'm a linux nazi, and I praise Linus in all his glory, then obviously I'm "with it" for being a linux nazi. Basically these people have to realize that you either are or are not cool. You can't make yourself cool by association.
Well that and people should REALLY take a look at who actually works on Linux and GNU software. It ain't Linus nor RMS.
Tom
How about I cite someone who may cite someone who cites a paper which cites a person who cited the original news article in which the treaty was cited?
Tom
Hey if it's enough for the NES, Gameboy, GBA, SNES, Gamegear, Sega Master System, Sega Genesis, Original PC, most pocket organizers, wrist watches, VCRs, automated robots, door locks, garage door openers, bank machines, your mother, optical mice, printers, monitors, FAX machines, VoIP phones and smart cards, it's good enough for me.
You is not funny.
There is most likely a treaty which specifies the borders of Norway w.r.t. Sweden....
Just saying...
Tom
Assuming you're not trolling...
... er Windows on Windows when 16-bit device drivers were the norm].
You can't call 32-bit code [that is, code compiled with 32-bit pointers and registers in mind] directly from a 64-bit application. Even if you don't use 4GB of memory you still have 64-bit pointers [well 48-bit on AMD64]. Then you have registers. The ABI [application binary interface] for x86_64 specifies that you pass a certain # of arguments as registers and not on the stack, etc.
You need a "thunking" layer to call 32-bit code [like WoW
Assuming Flash isn't all spaghetti code it should really be a matter of just rebuilding with a 64-bit compiler against 64-bit libraries.
Tom
So tired of shit not being developed for x86_64. Get with the times. Didn't RTFA but I assume they'll ignore it like they always have...
Tom
I'd say most people who have "duplicated" [it's not piracy, yarr AVAST ye matey!] movies wouldn't physically shoplift from a store or otherwise.
Why is that?
Could it be they'd feel guilty?
Ok, so why don't they feel guilty about duplicating movies? Could it be the actors [representatives of the movie in all honesty] are overpaid liberal pussies? Nobody really thinks about the catering, camera, rig, grip, etc other people that go into a movie. The mindset is, the actors are rich they can afford me not to pay for this copy.
And in all honesty, fuck them. I'm so tired of hearing about a movie that rakes in 300M dollars and then to hear about how "the studio stole all the profits" or "the stunt men only get 50K/yr". If every product I made got me 300M a year I'd pay myself fairly. Maybe if the studios and "A-list" actors stopped stealing all the profits we'd be set.
I just don't get why we live in a world where an actor can make 20M on some movie, but a doctor who reconstructs your heart makes only 100-200K/yr?
hmm...
Tom
Yeah, but even the average user has to install 3rd party apps. The claim that "you have to hunt down stuff to use the OS" is only a Linux fault [if you can call it that] is a myth.
.txt files and play solitaire.
Windows out of the box is totally useless. That's the beauty of it. You can't do anything but write
At least a Fedora or Ubuntu installer CD gives you the same [and more] and doesn't cost hundreds of dollars.
Tom
Just remember that things like DX and Office will likely only work [fully] in the higher up editions.
Be prepared to shell out 499$ for the "ultimate" edition [that or move on to a REAL OS like BeOS or QNX...]
Tom