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Windows Vista Prices and Release Date Leaked
Nieske writes "Prices and the release date for Windows Vista have leaked online. Ed Bott's Microsoft Report has information on pricing, and the release date is currently January 30th, 2007. Are they really going to make the deadline this time?" From the ZDNet article: "In Canada, at least, the rumors of a 'modest' price increase were true, based on this list. Will these same relative prices hold true in the U.S.? Who knows? But if they do, then it's mostly good news for Windows customers. There's no price increase for Home Basic. Home Premium, the Vista version that maps most closely to the OEM-only Windows XP Media Center Edition, will finally be available as a retail product for a slight bump over the Home Basic product, similar to the $39 premium typically charged by large OEMs for Media Center upgrades. And Vista Business buyers will get a break with a small discount relative to XP Professional."
So our "authority" is a man from Microsoft Monitor Weblog that is owned by Jupitermedia, not Microsoft. And he's speculating that these are the leaked prices. Has anyone stopped and thought that if Amazon is posting these, that they probably weren't leaked? Or maybe the fact that Amazon constantly offers products and pushes back the release date means that these aren't the real release dates?
What I'm guessing is that these are estimates for the release date but it will most likely be pushed back and that these prices are correct and direct from Microsoft. Intentional, though, not 'leaked.'
My work here is dung.
Mark January 30'th on your calendar, the date of the next internet Pandemic.
Got Code?
FULL versions (all prices Canadian)
Windows Vista Ultimate $499
Windows Vista Business $379
Windows Vista Home Premium $299
Windows Vista Home Basic $259
UPGRADE versions (all prices Canadian)
Windows Vista Ultimate Upgrade $299
Windows Vista Business Upgrade $249
Windows Vista Home Premium Upgrade $199
Windows Vista Home Basic Upgrade $129
I didn't do the conversion to real money.
More than ever, do I love Linux.
quis custodiet ipsos custodes
That's the important one!
My sig sucks.
Enjoy your DRM.
I would have expected it to be released for Christmas. To boost computer sales.
0 693
----
http://world4.monstersgame.co.uk/?ac=vid&vid=4701
http://ebgp.net/ccc/
Microsoft OSes were always released on Thursdays. January 30th is Tuesday.
whether its the stellar video driver support, or the fantastic sound card support, to the plethora of games and business apps that all work flawlessly without hours of tweaking.... you're right, linux kicks ass.
FULL versions
Windows Vista Ultimate ~$450
Windows XP Professional w/SP2 ~$387
Windows Vista Business ~$342
Windows Vista Home Premium ~$270
Windows Vista Home Basic ~$234
Windows XP Home w/SP2 ~$234
UPGRADE versions
Windows Vista Ultimate Upgrade ~$270
Windows XP Professional w/SP2 Upgrade ~$234
Windows Vista Business Upgrade ~$225
Windows Vista Home Premium Upgrade ~$180
Windows Vista Home Basic Upgrade ~$117
Windows XP Home w/SP2 Upgrade ~$117
This post climbed Mt. Washington.
Does anybody outside of Microsoft actually care about Vista? WinXP is fairly stable, it runs all the software (or nearly all of it) developed for every version of Windows since Win95. Also, WinXP does not have perverted-control-freak class DRM embedded into it, like Vista does/will. Personally I view Vista as a significant downgrade from WinXP - it will negatively affect the utility offered by a Windows computer.
I should also mention that if the full Windows Vista Ultimate costs $450 in the US it will probably cost 450 pounds in the UK. Ouch!
This post climbed Mt. Washington.
that way they can release all the required patches on the same day.
"Look Lois, the two symbols of the Republican Party: an elephant, and a fat white guy who is threatened by change."
The windows pricing is a classic example of what marketeers call "market segmentation". When deciding how to price a product, you ask "How much will people pay?", and the answer is different people will pay different prices - some people actually want to pay more for essentially the same product.
It is an increasingly unpopular pricing method because people resent it. Note, for instance, the rapid growth of budget airlines (in Europe at least) - a lot of their popularity can be put down to the fact the traditional pricing model for flights was highly segmented - customers have come to resent paying different prices for essentially the same thing and so the budget airlines, with their simpler pricing model, have grown in popularity.
It is interesting that Apple do not do this, they don't even have separate "upgrade" prices. If you want the latest version of their OS or basic software (iWorks or iLife), then you pay one price. As a customer I like that.
When all the competitors (sun, ibm, mozilla, etc..) join to make a giant Linux advertising campain, on all tv channels.
Soon microsoft will start paying people to use windows :)
Wondering why i am doing so strange posts? I am trying to get a "+5,Flamebait" or "-1,Insightful" rating.
At those prices, we'll definitely not bother to upgrade our existing systems from WinXP Pro to WinVista Business. If those upgrade prices were about 50% of what is listed, it would be worthwhile. There's just no worthwhile gain in moving from WinXP to WinV.
(And to think I already thought that WinXP Pro prices were too expensive.)
Wolde you bothe eate your cake, and have your cake?
Do you have any, ANY proof of or even hint at the validity of that claim?
I'm Rocco. I'm the +5 Funny man.
They want me to pay $450 for something that will almost certainly force me to upgrade some bits of hardware to give it a chance of running, will potentially fail to run some of my software and in return does what exactly? Look pretty whilst constantly asking me if I'm sure?
Call me negative but I'm not exactly in hurry to join that particular queue.
I want a list of atrocities done in your name - Recoil
Tom, come now. First, the ultimate pricing is $399/$259 (full/upgrade) USD. And can you point to an example where a MS product has been not "fully" working because it is running on a "lower" version? I cannot think of any off the top of my head at least. I have Office professional at work (XP Pro) and at home (XP Home) and I get the exact same functionality. Same with my games, development tools, etc, etc. Now I cannot say for sure there has never been such a case, but as I cannot think of any I'd be very interested to hear any examples.
There are certainly some applications which require a certain version (Media Center, IIS, etc, etc) but I cannot think of a single example where a MS application supported by both Home and Pro versions have ever had the Home version crippled in some way. I may well be wrong and would be interested to hear examples if I am.
"reality has a well-known liberal bias" - Steven Colbert
Amazon.com is taking orders for Windows Vista.
r t=rss&tag=6110494&subj=news
http://news.com.com/2300-1016_3-6110494-1.html?pa
Contrary to popular belief, Unix is user friendly. It just happens to be particular about who it makes friends with.
to figure out Vista's release date.
i was just going to watch the Weather Channel and check for frost warnings for Hell and its surrounding counties...
Directx10 is only for vista, that's proven. IE7 will have special security features only for vista that's proven, so will Office i think (not proven).
Some games like Halo 2 will be released Vista-only.
When you are a looser, just shut the fuck up.
How about remote desktop? It deliberately disables the ability to have multiple users connect to anything lower than Windows Server 2K3 (that's right, even with XPPro, you don't get useful things like that).
Palm trees and 8
Are they really going to make a release that will resist to cracking more than 15 minutes?
You all know both answers, however.
Maybe Computers will never be as intelligent as Humans.
For sure they won't ever become so stupid. [VR-1988]
What is the real worth of Windows? Is an OPerating system really worth $129 for a BASIC stripped down version?
,etc )
Essentially a single-user operating system:
For:
-NO BACKUP Utility (Even *NIX has tar/gzip) and crond
-An integrated Web browser, inseperable (or with great effort) from the core OS
-NO Support for Firewall (I don't trust Microsoft's FireWall)
-NO NATIVE DVD Player (due to "licence" cost)
-NO Ability to set permissions on files for multiple users
-PISS-POOR Command Line Interface (try renaming 10 files, under Windows)
-PISS-POOR User Management (try creating more than 10 accounts)
-NO SECURE AUTOMATION of COMMON TASKS (user management, file management
No Thanks, I don't like any OS that attempts to Dictate what I can and can't do on my own files. I'd rather spend the 40-50 bucks and get a commercial Linux distro.
I'm a computing die-hard, I dual boot, running XP for Half-Life II, thats about it.
Office 97 still runs on my system, I paid the microsoft tax since I bought a laptop, thats all I'm willing to pay for Windows, about say $50.00, what a normal Linux distro would cost.
For the "PRO" version, I would pay about $100.
There is NOTHING in XP that is worth 129.99.
Yeah...A real OS that does nothing for the Business world and something that no one has ever heard of or will ever move to.
The greatest revenge in life is massive success.
It's sad that the only version that's really suited to gaming is Vista "Ultimate." Ultimate suck, maybe. I don't think I'm going to spend $499 on a POSOS. Hell, if I had that kind of money floating around, I wouldn't be able to complain about the PS3 pricing.
Blerg.
No, clearly nobody cares about Vista. This is obvious when you look at the total lack of coverage it receives on sites such as Slashdot.
will people who build 4x4 or want to run vista on there mac pro systems be forced to buy Ultimate?
will gameing fully work with Business?
Will M$ let you use 2 cpus on home and move Business / Ultimate to 4?
How about remote desktop? It deliberately disables the ability to have multiple users connect to anything lower than Windows Server 2K3 (that's right, even with XPPro, you don't get useful things like that).
How useful that is for anything except a terminal server is debatable. Most business / home users don't need more than one person on a workstation at a time.
It looks sexy.
for a bit of paint and frosted glass. Seriously, the system requirements, and price of the O/S don't justify purchasing Vista. What's the point?
I know that unless some sort of breaking technological invention comes around Windows is going to be sold the same way as always. Hacked, cracked and free of charges towards Microsoft. I also know that only a select few are trully interested in Vista without Aero, and that most people don't know that they'll have to pay the price for that. Vista is about choices, but I dought that many people will care for Vista if it doesn't introduce the shiny factor into their lives. As for when it's released... I think most people won't be buying a computer just for this Operating system. Rather they wait.
Blind are we who do not know that we are blind. The world has been boring ever since I got here.
Name something that the business world needs, and I can name a dozen open source apps, and a dozen more *nix apps, which do it. Sometimes, better than whats on Windows, sometimes not, but the core OS doesn't really stop one from doing what one needs to do.
Palm trees and 8
I'm afraid that you, sir, are the "looser" [sic] and need to "shut the fuck up"
He wasn't taking about tht things will be Vista Only (thats a given) but rather that applications not bundled with the OS will require a specific version of Vista (like requiring XP Pro rather than just XP). Now there may be a few instances of this (tablet specific apps requiring a version with ink/recogniser support for example) but this will be rare. I have never come across an application that requires XP Pro (even if it says it does). I have MS VPC, Sql Server DE and other things which "require" XP Pro on my XP Home laptop.
PS what is a "looser" when used as a noun. I've always considered it an adjective so maybe that should be "you are looser" - at least that would make sense grammatically
No. Not enough people care.
That's why MS are forcing (some) people to upgrade by making the next versions of Halo and Flight Sim Vista-only.
Does anybody outside of Microsoft actually care about Vista? WinXP is fairly stable
You're today's latest and greatest, so what makes you think that you won't run Vista when the time comes?
Win2k was also fairly stable and ran everything at the time, yet you went to XP. You will care about Vista for the same reasons that you run XP today.
Rod Taylor
I bet a bunch of folks are just going to buy the cheapest version they can or just go to the most expensive thinking that way they'll get everything they'll need.
Me, I'll just get the cheapest version. That'll have the networking. That's all I need. Web services and other things like that I'll install myself.
Or, I'll just say "Fuck it!" and buy a Mac.
Haven't several of them been leaked or announced? And pushed back?
This message will self-destruct in 5, 4, 3...
None of which has anything to do with the original claim that DX10 and Office will likely only work in the upper-end versions of Vista, which is an utterly ridiculous idea, as lack of those two would almost completely kill the crippled versions. Corporates wouldn't buy them as Office wouldn't work, and home users wouldn't buy them as games and multimedia wouldn't work.
It's official. Most of you are morons.
I'm confused why Microsoft would make a move like this. Their pricing scheme is not competitive with any other OS's on the market that I can think of. Retail boxes of most Linux distributions are between $50 and $100 USD. A new copy of OSX costs $129 (and people still complain about that!). But at least with OSX you can buy a 5-pack "family" license for $199. And yet, Microsoft comes out and expects people to pay $199 minimum to run Windows on their non-Dell/HP/SONY prebundled computer. I mean, if Microsoft is right about the number of pirated copies on computers then they can't count on "upgrade" customers cause there must be some check to prevent it from being upgraded on a pirated copy.
A good question to ask is what they consider an upgrade to be? Can you upgrade Win 3.1/95/ME? Cause I'm sure you can find a copy of one of those for less than the $100 difference between retail/upgrade. Does anyone else think this pricing scheme will fuel more people to switch over to Mac/Linux computers? Or will it have no impact and people will just buy their Dell/HP/ computer with it prebundled and not care?
* Windows Vista Home Basic, $199/$99.95
* Windows Vista Home Premium, $239/$159
* Windows Vista Business, $299/$199
* Windows Vista Ultimate, $399/$259
* MacOS X Tiger (single user) $129
* MacOS X Tiger (family license) $199
* MacOS X Server $999
I suspect that Windows Vista Ultimate is not the server edition, which will almost certainly be more expensive than $399. So... assuming comparable hardware prices for Apple x86 PCs vs. the generic market, Microsoft has now priced themselves above the competition. I seem to remember Microsoft taking the market by _undercutting_ their competitors some decades ago. It would appear they have forgotten what competition does to the market leader. Perhaps it's time they relearn that lesson?
They are always forking versions. I mean 8 versions? And this does not include 'compact' or 'mobile' editions, or 'data center' versions.
putting the 'B' in LGBTQ+
The biggest deal is that the ability to rip a DVD is only in the home upgraded version, and the ability to use non-M$ networking protocols is only in the pro.
Starter is a joke and will only run 3 pieces of software at once. This version of Vista is like an "upgrade" back to Windows 3.1.
Well, actually I just know my dad wants Vista. But I think my dad represents a model microsoft user. He's very computer literate when it comes to MS and Mac applications, but he's no programmer. He buys and registers all of his software. He uses his achingly slow pc for business and photo editing. Working with 8MP RAW image files in PS on his 400MHz machine has been a huge pain but he is insistant on holding out for Vista before getting a new machine. I think there are a lot of people (dads, mostly) who are waiting patiently for Vista, even though they've pretty much been in need of a new machine for quite a while already. It may not be just the new features, but it's just assumed that the newer windows will be the better windows.
isn't there also something about 64-bit processing? DOn't recall them offering that with XP. I didn't look it up though, so I might be mistaken.
Here, let me help you out:
Now, if it were March of 2003, the rate would be:
1 US Dollar =~ 1.31 Canadian Dollars
But, at today's rates:
1 US Dollar =~ 1.10 Canadian Dollars
I'll let you do the math yourself.
not high that many people will buy a single boxed copy with no hardware, at least at first. The vast majority of sales are "upgrade" licenses or one where they sell the OS plus a keyboard or a case or something.
They quite intentionally want you to buy a new PC with the OS preinstalled. It's where the volume is and it's where the perception "buying a computer" means buying hardware with a windows OS installed.
As another post mentioned, the OEM prices are where the action is. It will be very interesting to see if the Microsoft tax goes up for them a great deal more than the retail prices are showing.
The way it looks now, I don't see where shareholders are going to get the return on investment they are looking for after MS drops major bucks on advertising and stuffing the distribution channel with the release of LongWait.
http://www.maxineudall.com/2010/02/should-economists-be-sued-for-malpractice.html
Here is the wikipedia arciel It's not clear which allows for two processors (might just be the business ones). And the aqua rip off is only available on the upgraded home version. The "game performance tweaker" will also only be available for the top edition.
[oblig eve post]Eve-online just this _week_ made Win2k the minimum OS version (which blew me away that they were still supporting Win98 clients until this week). How long will XP remain a eminently useful OS to the majority of us (or for gaming?)
Don't worry, by the time Vista ships it'll be CAD$1 = US$1.
Sure. Reporting.
I'll need a WYSIWYG report designer, a server that schedules processing of cached copies of reports, and viewer controls for ASP.Net (JSP, PHP, etc.). I can get all that from MS (for the cost of a SQL Server license), or something far more powerful from Crystal (now accepting cash, check, or firstborn son). And I'm not even that demanding - imagine someone that wants a full ad-hoc system with a designer that lets end users report from an abstract model rather than the actual table structure, including security. Or how about user-configurable dashboards?
You said you could name a dozen open source apps for this. I see one FOSS app that'll do this - where's the other 11?
'Cause we all have a little mac fanboi hiding inside us
*ducks*
Is it just my observation, or are there way too many stupid people in the world?
http://www.amazon.com/Microsoft-Windows-Vista/dp/B 000HCTYSU/sr=8-1/qid=1156864945/ref=sr_1_1/104-349 7884-5607157?ie=UTF8
says that the product is discontinued by manufacturer :)
I don't want a signature.
Vista Ultimate: $399
Mac OS X: $599. To be fair, there is a Mac Mini bundled with.
1. Will the upgrades work w/the volume licenses that were flagged as pirated?
2. Why is Vista Ultimated the only one that lists Remote Access as a feature?
Anyone know?
For that much money you can buy 5 gallons of paint from Home depot and paint the whole house blue.
..... best things in life are not so free..........
I refuse to use Windows Software any longer. Well, at least the Operating System. I have been running 100% Linux for a while now and I love it. I really can truly say I do not miss one single thing about their OS.
whether its the stellar virus support, or the fantastic spyware support, to the plethora of trojans and malware that all work flawlessly without hours of tweaking.... you're right, Windows kicks your ass.
"It ain't a war against drugs.it's a war against personal freedom" --Bill Hicks
The prices he lists are for canada only. The information for America is just him guessing what the prices will be.
"Based on current U.S. prices (which I wrote about last week), I would expect Windows Vista to sell in the U.S. for the following prices (full/upgrade):"
"Of course, these are guesses only. Some discounts will probably be available in the retail channel"
This isn't leaked information, it's guesses made by the guy.
TruePunk | Games
If Vista's release date is Jan 30 2006, I'm not expecting it until at least Jan 30 2008.
What makes you think that Microsoft can't/won't deliver backported Vista DRM components via XP patches?
C'mon guys, don't complain about the pricing yet. All huge corps use price skimming. Although hopefully I'll be getting the Win Vista Pirated(TM) version before the prices come down to a reasonable point (if ever, not likely). Fact of the matter, adoption of this [insert profanity] product will be painfully slow. How many times has M$ shot themselves in the foot? Do they have feet left?
> [oblig eve post]Eve-online just this _week_ made Win2k the minimum OS version (which blew me
> away that they were still supporting Win98 clients until this week). How long will XP remain a
> eminently useful OS to the majority of us (or for gaming?)
My wife's Windows 2000 Pro works just fine, and I presume that will not change just because
Microsoft relases Vista. Windows 2000 Pro works quite well, have no annoying activation and will
continue to recieve security updates for a few more years.
Guessing the date would make for a good slashdot sweepstake game. Dollar in, pick a date and see who gets lucky. If I were playing I'd stear clear of January but then again I've never won anything in my life.
spoonerize "magic trackpad"
...who would have told them that $599 (USD) is the correct price for upcoming products with "features" that nobody is particularly excited about.
I think its more like growing out of us like all total recall style.
disclaimer: I've been known to store numbers in my ass for which to dig out when quantities are required.
vista is the first of many to come for sure. Here's a breakdown of the brokenness of each version
Starter Version: Really REALLY broken (supposedly for developing nations)
Home Basic: DVD burning is broken, Eye-candy is half broken. Desktop search is broken
Home Premium: Desktop search still broken. Will it be able to join a domain? I bet it won't. You'll have to pay extra for that. FYI: it appears that if the OEM PC has a DVD burner, you *must* buy home premium so they can protect you from your own entertainment media.
Ultimate: Media playback is broken. (DRM) Protects you from your own media.
It is reasonable to assume this is the first step towards even more segmentation.
http://blogs.zdnet.com/Bott/?p=12
http://www.maxineudall.com/2010/02/should-economists-be-sued-for-malpractice.html
You Sir, are smoking crack.
Why don't you place an order to replace 20 desktops at work and get them all with XP Home on them.
Let us know how it goes.
While you are at it, make sure you get McAfee installed on each of them too.
Mark January 30'th on your calendar, the date of the next internet Pandemic.
You are not very well informed. If you had invested in a interstellar subspace communicator and listened to the cosmic news channels every once in a while you would know that January 29th 2007 is be the day the Windows Vista development servers, all the backups along with the Vista development team it self and Steve Ballmer's entire collection of hand made throwing chairs is scheduled to be abducted by they grey aliens.
Only to idiots, are orders laws.
-- Henning von Tresckow
How bout a big red screen?
Stasis is death. Embrace change.
More likely, similar to XP Starter, Vista Starter will probably not be launched in the US/EU market.
I assert that my comment is only my opinion, not that of any employer, past, present or future.
Does anybody outside of Microsoft actually care about XP? Win2000 is fairly stable, it runs all the software (or nearly all of it) developed for every version of Windows since Win95. Also, Win2000 does not have perverted-control-freak class DRM embedded into it, like XP does/will. Personally I view XP as a significant downgrade from Win2000 - it will negatively affect the utility offered by a Windows computer.
I won't bother rebutting the above 'points' one by one as I am sure someone is even now jumping in to do that. I will observe, though, that people who use terms such as 'piss-poor' to describe things such as features or implementations are factually wrong much more often than the average.
I hypothesize that this is part of a general 'the louder you yell, the less you think about what you are yelling' rule. In other words, it's a kind of mini-mini-mob mentality -- a mob of one, if you will. I can't think of a way to test this hypothesis, though.
-NO Ability to set permissions on files for multiple users
Dear oh my, as my mother would say
Whence? Hence. Whither? Thither.
FULL versions (all prices universal)
Linux Awesome Edition $Free
Linux Everywhere $Free
Linux Anywhere $Free
Penguins $Free (in Antarctica)
UPGRADE versions (all prices universal)
Linux Awesome Edition $Free
Linux Everywhere $Free
Linux Anywhere $Free
Penguins $Free (in Antarctica)
I don't see why I should bother with Windows at this point. The Windows versions I currently have are sufficient for anything I actually need Microsoft software for, and for eye candy Vista can't hold a candle to XGL. Especially at these price points, I'm having trouble justifying even considering purchasing another version of Windows.
No, the reason budget airlines have grown in popularity is that they are undercutting ALL of the segmented prices of the major airlines.
That is incorrect, at least in North America (I know firsthand about Canada and I'm told the US it was the same). I remember when WestJet began operations (it was the first truly viable independent budget airline in Canada). It was less than a week before the competition had seat sales that often matched or even slightly undercut WestJet's offerings. If price alone was a factor then WestJet would've gone out of business in its first year. This is especially true because the biggest airline (Air Canada) was a recently privatised Crown corporation that was still run by a management team with very tight connections to government departments. For many years after Air Canada (nicknamed "MapleFlot") was sold by the government it received hundreds of millions (perhaps into the billions) in guaranteed loans, grants and other subsidies and used its favoured posistion to undercut competition regardless of actual operationg costs. Air Canada destroyed or absorbed WardAir, Canadian International, etc this way both in its days as a crown corporation and afterwards. However the competition tried to run their businesses like traditional airlines, especially Air Canada. WestJet "broke the rules" so it was able to withstand price pressures based on other factors.
Trust me, if British Airways had a 'Cargo Class' flight that was cheaper than all the 'budget' airlines, I'd be packing myself into a suitcase and going on a cheap holiday.
No you wouldn't, unless you were lucky enough to have a flexible schedule and were willing to compromise. If British Airways had the option of "steerage" then you'd have to be willing to limit your travelling options to certain destianations, fly off-season, take overnight flights and so on. There would be no flight attendants at all, no in-flight movie ore even music to listen to, no in-flight meals, snacks or beverages, except for bottled water which would be extra-charged. You'd be limited to continental flights (no trans-oceanic flights) to non-vacation destinations. This is because universally-available "cargo class" would break the whole segmented pricing model because it would undercut their own segmented offerings and turn British Ariways into just another discount airline.
WestJet and other discount airlines trim costs by limiting on-flight food options and other such extras, however they still have friendly and convenient service (still superior to much-improved Air Canada) and were first to offer extras like live in-flight sattelite TVs on every seatback, and have the most modern fleet in North America. You can fly to vacation destinations like Las Vegas, Orlando, LA and Hawaii (Air Canada's successful discount service does NOT fly to such destinations). Their change-booking charge is very minimal--usually $10 unless it is same-day, which is still considerably cheaper than Air Canada (if you chood their discount segment and you need to reschedule the fee can be as high as $150). For WestJet there is always ONE price offered per flight at any given time. Air Canada's simplified segmented system STILL has about a half-dozen different prices for the same flights, which most often are even for the exact same seating options. Westjet's pricing is only a minor factor in its success. The two biggest reasons by far are the high-quality service and the LACK OF SEGMENTED PRICING.
The reason that Apple don't have seperate upgrade prices, is because their market is loyal enough that they can be meticulously gouged, and will still come back for more.
That is also incorrect. Apple has gained marketshare, and given that how can someone be loyal to Macs if they have just bought their first Mac? Also, the one-and-only price for a single copy of the FULL VERSION of MacOS X is IDENTICAL to the UPGRADE price for the MOST BASIC edition of Windows Vista or XP Home. It is hard to argue that Apple is goug
Vista is for home users . USERS . I operate a microwave , while being completely unaware of it's innerworkings . This is what a user of a PC should be like .
.
1) Most home users do not use an actual backup utility . They just copy stuff , and curse and spit every 4 years when the HD crashes .
2) An integrated web browser is not a bad thing . And considering the fact that you complain that Vista doesn't play DVDs , I don't see your point .
3) Windows Firewall is no worse than any other SOFTWARE FIREWALL . You want a real firewall ? Get a box .
4) Yeah , the DVD thing sucks . But then again , it means that a user actually gets to install a non-ms product .
5) Normal people doesn't really need file permissions for multiple users.They don't even understand the concept . I think less than 5% of users actually need that at home
6)Again , nobody actually uses the command line interface . I installed cygwin bash shell on my machine , but normal people dont need that .
7) When was the last time you've met a home user that tried creating 10 accounts ?
8) No secure automation of common tasks . Not secure automation of anything .
I think Vista is a useless upgrade , and a total waste of money . But that's because I am perfectly happy with the way XP behaves at this point .
My Starcraft 2 Blog
You mean like the three breasted...oh, right. Ewwww, that's gross. ;-)
Is it just my observation, or are there way too many stupid people in the world?
This will probably end up only for the people who read at -1, but here's a list of some of Vista's main improvements:
.NET better integrated in, nicer interface all around (yes, lots of stuff from OS X, but that's a good thing), lots of bundled applications are much improved (IE7, Outlook, Task manager, Windows update, etc), new WIM deployment image stuff to make multi-installs easier, NFS client support for better UNIX integration (no more being forced to support SMB on Linux), improved program installation API which should make things cleaner, etc.
Lots of security features (drive encryption, much improved firewall, address space randomization, users aren't admin, lots of IE security improvements), loads of revamped new stacks (audio, print, network, video), IPv6 by default, new memory manager,
As for the DRM; I'd rather have it built into the OS where all developers can re-use it, so media will hopefully be easier to transfer between apps which use MS' DRM. Worst case scenario; it'll be one DRM scheme to break instead of a million different ones.
Whether you like Windows or not, Vista will be a very nice and much needed improvement; businesses will be upgrading, and I expect the vast majority of XP users will be too.
// MD_Update(&m,buf,j);
Optical Character Recognition.
Open source OCR is crap. (If you know of one that's not, point me to it!). ABBYY FineReader is pretty good, and its pretty much the standard used by the Distributed Proofreaders but that's Windows only. for all practical purposes--there's a corporate Unix version starting at a huge corporate price....
So I run FR under WINE, and it works well enough. But I hanker after a native version.
Does anybody outside of Microsoft actually care about Vista? WinXP is fairly stable, it runs all the software (or nearly all of it) developed for every version of Windows since Win95.
Unfortunately the next version of DirectX will only be released for Vista. That means that any new games using later versions of DirectX will require you to shell out the $399US for Vista in order to play the game.
It's a play right out of the abusive monopoly handbook.
The government has a defect: it's potentially democratic. Corporations have no defect: they're pure tyrannies. -Chomsky
If they really need more than one user connecting to an XP machine remotely, then I don't think they should be running XP in the first place. I know we should be able to use it for whatever we want, etc etc etc.. and someone might point to Linux, where they can do anything that they want, but Windows wasn't designed in the same way as Linux and each version is specifically geared for certain types of people.
"Hey, Rocky! Watch me pull a rabbit out of my hat!
"But that trick never works!"
"This time for sure! Presto!"
Strike while the irony is hot! -- The Freethinker
Note that the January 30th date is just the release date for home users. Corporate users are expected to get it earlier than that, and since Vista is expected to go RTM sometime in Nov/December, you can expect at least pirates to have the final release sometime then, as for home users.
Beware: In C++, your friends can see your privates!
I sure can: It's 130 bucks for each Service Pack.
Microsoft does the exact same thing--They released Windows 95 service packs 1 2 and 3 as separate OSes too (they called them Windows 98, 98SE and Me--remember?). I'd argue that Windows XP was really little more than Windows 2000 SP5 with a new desktop theme. I have not yet come across a single application that runs on XP that will not run on Win2k and many device drivers are interchangeable. Furthermore, by and large, they both get compromised by the same viruses and attacks and get patches for the same vulnerabilities basically recompiled against different branches of the NT Workstation and NT Server source trees.
I suppose it depends on personal perspective, but I and many others would say that Windows 95 was the last significant release of the MSDOS line of OSes and that Windows 2000 was the last significant release of the NT line of OSes and since then its been "eye candy and service packs in disguise". Releasing major service packs as actual, no-cost service packs is a fairly recent (and welcomed) phenomenon. If MS operated like they did in the 1990s XP SP2 would most definitely have been marketed as a new release unto itself.
Unfortunately, the trade rage business cares mightly about Windows Vista and the 2 or 3 billion dollars that Microsoft will spend to convince people to spend money to upgrade their overpriced, feature poor, security challenged XP system for an even more overpriced, feature poor Windows Vista system. The only dogs salivating for Vista are the ad salespeople. For myself personally, it will be a cold day in hell before Microsoft gets another dollar of my money. There is nothing in Vista that I want or need that I can't get in Linux, FreeBSD, or Solaris for a lot less money.
And can you point to an example where a MS product has been not "fully" working because it is running on a "lower" version?
Yes, I can: Windows Services for Unix. Doesn't work on XP Home.
"The day Microsoft makes a product that doesn't suck is the day they make a vacuum cleaner."
I dunno. there's the whole DX10 thing. I still have a feeling, however unfounded, that DX10 will eventually be back-ported to XP.
Vista will become the default consumer OEM install on Day 1 of it's release.
Mac users upgrade within the Mac family, Windows users within the Windows family. It is rather late in the day to believe in a mass migration from one to the other.
Linux isn't even in the picture.
No mainstream OEM support. No significant presence in big box retail. OEM Linux at Walmart.com is dead and buried.
WinXP does not have perverted-control-freak class DRM embedded into it, like Vista does/will
Translated, this means Vista will support your next-generation internet radio services and legit rental and sale high-definition commercial videos.
To the 20% of American households who have already migrated to HDTV, this is generally considered a plus.
Their pricing scheme is not competitive with any other OS's on the market that I can think of.
Vendor Lock In.
What he can't kill, he has sex on. Trent.
Regarding your #2:
1) OS X users don't pay for upgrades for the OS either. We have had seven X.X.1 upgrades to Tiger since the original release. Granted, none of them were as significant as SP2 for Windows, but at the same time, we didn't need as many things completely overhauled.
2) Jaguar, Panther, Tiger and Leopard are FAR from a SP2 upgraded. I'm not trying to downplay what Microsoft provided in SP2, but rather highlighting just how fundamental every release of OS X has been... and Leopard seems to be continuing that trend. Apple says there are over 200+ new features... turn off the Jobs Reality distortion field, and it's more like 25+, but those 25+ are REAL (and new) features. Spotlight, Dashboard, Smart Folders, Updated Mail, iChat upgrade, Automator, QuickTime 7, Safari 2, Core Image and Core Video. You must admit, that those are far beyond what SP2 offered.
If these are the actual prices, it looks like OS X isn't all that much more expensive than what Microsoft is offering... which for most Mac users is fine.
Slightly modified to mantain it on topic
[Th3No0b] Im going to be the next hitler
[Th3No0b] Im going to burn all the MS-Windows servers and 1 BSD server
[RageAgainsttheAmish] why the BSD server
[Th3No0b] See? no one cares about Windows
[RageAgainsttheAmish] lmao
Ubuntu is an African word meaning 'I can't configure Debian'
In other words, your math skills suck, but good for you that you use Ubuntu. I mean, you can't add for shit, but hey you use Ubuntu. Here's a cookie.
Anyone who whines about being modded down should be.
And can you point to an example where a MS product has been not "fully" working because it is running on a "lower" version?
On XP Home you can create only limited users or administrators, i.e. there's no possibility to promote a limited user to the Power Users group (like there is on XP Pro) with more rights, but still not full access to the system such as rights required for driver installations. So let's say your less than competent family members want to use a piece of software or play a game which due to bad design wants write access to Program Files (not too uncommon, sadly). With XP Home you need to give them full admin rights unless you completely prevent them from using the software/game in question. The first option starts a countdown to serious system fsck-up, the latter one causes your family to be mad at you. Damned if you do, damned if you don't.
> I dunno. there's the whole DX10 thing. I still have a feeling, however unfounded, that DX10 will eventually be back-ported to XP.
;-)
That may be, but as I wrote, we don't use XP. Our multimedia needs are modest, so she dont miss XP
You'll still have the ability to rip a DVD the old-fashioned way, without the DRM. Just use the programs you do now to decrypt and rip. You just won't have it built into Media Player/Center. And you won't have Media Center at all if you get Home Basic. Home Premium is essentially what is currently Media Center Edition.
Also, I wouldn't think you'd need non-MS networking protocols unless it's actually a work laptop, which would necessitate getting one of the Pro versions. Unless Novell can ship their own driver or something.
Starter Edition isn't really even worth mentioning in this country. It's a POS.
After making a comment like this, don't be surprised if your opinions aren't taken seriously anymore...
Can't afford the downtime.
If a business is competent it is generally more secure. Working in business for as long as I have sometimes you find Business very anal about security. That is mostly good. XP Pro has more features to allow securing files/shares. It has more utilities to manage different aspects of computers.
XP Home users have their enhanced security disabled by default. You get basic file sharing. I see significantly more adware/spyware and viruses on home computers than I ever did in business computers.
For me, that's where the security issues need the most correction.
Yeah, the games play the same and so do the productivity application. Generally they perform the same.
It is the security that needs to be addressed in Vista (or better yet a SP3 for XP, since Vista is just a DRM infected verson of XP with a pretty interface (if you can afford the hardware and the OS costs)).
So yeah, there are difference which are mostly impreceptiable to the average XP Home user, but when push comes to shove it is that hidden difference that affects home users the most.
You can lead a man with reason but you can't make him think.
is ... they pay me.
I have a WinXP computer at work, and a WinXP laptop at home. Most of our work computers are Linux.
We aren't buying Windows Vista at work. I won't be buying it at home.
I see no reason to shell out $2000 for a new computer and pay for a product I don't need. If I wanted all the screen cruft, I'd buy another Mac mini, like my son has, and it would be a lot cheaper.
-- Tigger warning: This post may contain tiggers! --
Las Vegas odds currently show a better chance for 30 days later: Feb 29th 2007
Okay so maybe I'm going against the grain here. But Windows is and has been a relativly good system for years. Sure there is cheaper things out there. But nothing that has the same compatability with most of the market that windows does. Can you play nearly every game made with linux, apple, or unix for that matter. Do all corporate servers work with above systems? Windows Vista is a new system... Its gonna get new upgrades and updates like everything else. I will like rest of the working world probably buy a copy of it.
Signed driver requirements and broken legacy software say that businesses *won't* be upgrading. I can't run my shop on Vista just because of those two things, even if I were to want to subject my users to it.
Big business won't upgrade until it has been "proven" in the marketplace, either.
Home XP users won't upgrade; the overwhelming majority have no clue on how to install an OS. They won't get Vista until they buy a new computer with it preinstalled. Businesses won't upgrade unless and until they absolutely have to and no competent sysadmin will recommend a Vista upgrade till SP1 comes out or later. Vista uptake is likely to be pretty slow for these reasons alone.
whotf modded this insightful.
Alexis 'jeriqo' BRET
the focal point is not whether or not money traded hands, but rather that there was always a cheaper upgrade path than buying new - unlike with Apple's OS X
Except that consumers are starting to clue in that having discounted upgrade prices for upgrades vs. "full" is purly a marketing ploy and that they are getting shafted. The only technical difference between the three differing editions of the same OS version (retail full, upgrade and OEM) is literally ONE FILE and the EULA. That is IT. Aside for the slightly cheaper packaging/distribution costs of the OEM version ALL these editions cost EXACTLY THE SAME to develop, manufacture and market. The extra profit margin for the full retail version is rightly seen by many as blatant price gouging. MS isn't offering a "cheaper upgrade path"--they are merely gouging upgraders less--"rewarding your loyalty" as it were. Apple doesn't need to use pricing incentives to reward loyalty because they have a relativly higher-quality product to begin with.
Software isn't like any physical good--it isn't like when you upgrade your house you get money for your old one, or you get a trade-in for your car. Microsoft recovers NO COST WHATSOEVER from upgrades--they do not ask for your old install discs back so they can re-sell or recycle them, as a car dealership would do with your old car.
So please..I'm interested to know...what is the whole point of reduced prices for upgrade editions of software releases then? If MS can make a decent profit on the upgrade why not let everyone pay that price then? I see no point myself except to play marketing games since the full retail version adds absolutely no value over the upgrade...at least with OEM and volume pricing there is some justification becasue of incrementally lower costs to the vendor. NOBODY has given me valid reasons beyond silly marketing, including yourself.
Um...I don't think most people have [b]ever[/b] used bash in Windows.
Exam 4/C again. Maybe I'll do better this time.
W2K had negligible sales and significance in the home market.
Yes. Unfortunately according to the calendar in my preview version of Vista the OS won't be available to retailers until 2/30/2007.
It won't make that release date and I am not buying it. I the last 15 years I havent predicted M$ wrong once.
Athiesm is a religion like not collecting stamps is a hobby.
XP was released in 2001. The specs on a mid-line OEM Vista system are going to look pretty damn good to anyone who has been out of the market for four to five years.
[2. Trade] WTS Windows Vista Ultimate! 2600g OBO!
[2. Trade] You can't sell WVU! It's BOP! LRN2PLY!
Oh dear God -- way too much time on WoW
If Bill Gatus and Co will be able to make Vista even more irritating than XP ? ... it would be a near-Olympic exploit to reiterate this ability they had to put together such a collection of counter-productive "potatoes"... they dare to call "features" and pretend it makes your life and job easier. ... but they don't tell it until reports about discovered "problems" start to flood the press and the Web)
XP in itself is already a monument dedicated to "Constant Annoyance" and to "Where Did They Put That Thing Again ?" as the pyramids of Gizah were monuments to the pharaos
But never under estimate the ability of Microsmurf to surpass their previous techno-horrors and re-invent itself systematically at every new release pretending each time their new baby is what "everybody on earth has been eagerly waiting for since man discovered fire (or at least will be after SP4 that will be released 2 years later (when their customers will have finished debugging the product for them and paid for)
!
For myself I swear on the toombs of my ancesters that I wont even try to log on such a system.
Dixit !
Wait a month after January 30, 2007 and visit Pricewatch for the OEM versions, I'll be needing to buy more memory and possibly a new motherboard and CPU anyway to run Vista. My laptop would need a memory upgrade as well, but the graphics on it do not support the new GUI features. I might keep XP on the laptop and trade it in for a new laptop with Vista pre-installed on it after a year or two after Vista comes out when they start making good deals and trade-in offers.
Remember, Slashdot does not have a -1 disagree moderation, and no, troll, flamebait, and overrated are not substitutes.
That is absolutely false, Windows 3.1 could only run 2 pieces of software at one time. The OS and 1 app.
>AFAIK you can use it on 2 or 3. the family pack is for 5.
t m
http://store.apple.com/Catalog/US/Images/MacOSX.h
2A "This License allows you to install and use one copy of the Apple Software on a single Apple-labeled computer at a time. This License does not allow the Apple Software to exist on more than one computer at a time,and you may not make the Apple Software available over a network where it could be used by multiple computers at the same time. You may make one copy of the Apple Software (excluding the Boot ROM code) in machine-readable form for backup purposes only; provided that the backup copy must include all copyright or other proprietary notices contained on the original. "
They've postponed it so many times that I don't think it's possible to say that they are able to meet any deadline for this product. When you keep postponing it until the day that you actually release it, it's not really a deadline anymore. Some might say that this is exactly what they've done. I guess these are the fruits of a monopoly on an industry. I don't *hate* Microsoft anymore. It just saddens me that monopoly begets mediocrity in any industry.
What are they thinking? An OS that costs more then my PC did? No thanks .
---- Booth was a patriot ----
Remember that most linux competitors dont make money off linux, its other things. So selling to a PC crowd as an alternative to buying vista for their current computer wont do much for them, so why spend the $ advertising?
And since most new pcs will have the microsft tax anyway, its hard to get into the oem market too.
---- Booth was a patriot ----
i won't bui this shit
Paul's Windows Vista Pricing Revealed article:c ing.asp
http://www.winsupersite.com/showcase/winvista_pri
Windows Vista Ultimate: $399 Windows Vista Home Premium: $239 Windows Vista Home Basic: $179 Windows Vista Ultimate Upgrade: $259 Windows Vista Home Premium Upgrade: $159 Windows Vista Home Basic Upgrade: $99 Linux kernel 2.6.17: Priceless
"Don't meddle in the affairs of a patent dragon, for thou art tasty and good with ketchup." ~ohcrapitssteve
Ok, if I said "who cares?" I'd get flagged as flamebait, but that's my reaction. In truth, it's not my worry anymore. After dabbling with Macs here and there, and two years of toting along an old powerbook with the thinkpad while working/traveling, I'm jumping off the windows cruft altogether. The only (and I mean *only*) app that kept me on Windows was Visio, and it runs happily in a VM. My corp email? Also happily in a VM -- and safely, since a disproportionate amount of risk to my personal computer comes from other corp users). Fedora gives me power, and OS X gives me easy+pretty. Now that VMWare will support OS X, I can probably drag all of the Linux tools over. Is a Knoppix distro for MacX86 far off?
I'd say "One less Vista license" at this point, but there's more. My far-less-geeky brother calls me to ask "which Dell should I buy?" I say check out a Mac mini,and he does. I hear that one of my nephews bought a flat-panel iMac. So have a few others. My sister-in-law tells me how impressed she is with these office computers that just work, and I find out they're diskless workstations running Ubuntu from a terminal server. And the ubergeek in highschool -- he's discovered that a Knoppix cd and thumbdrive is all he needs. Yeah, it's just our little family, but it's sprinkled all over the country and I keep hearing "My friend showed me" or "My boss bought one..."
It's just another raindrop behind the levy, but I get to say "five or seven fewer licenses." I fully expect the license cost of Vista to rise significantly, because I suspect that the subscription model won't fly, and in terms of % of market penetration, there's nowhere for windows to go but downhill. Windows itself may survive in perpetuity, but eventually Windows licensing will go the way of metered long distance in the age of flat-rates and voip -- remembered for the wonder and value it provided, but the cost model will seem an obtuse oddity.
FFS - I really do want to buy it, but that's taking the piss.
I made an effort a year or so back when i started earning to pay for the stuff I used a lot (Nero, FlashFXP and half a dozen other bits and bobs I'd been pirating for years).
I do want to buy Vista - and obviously I want the pretty pretty version - but...aggggghhhhhh
I know the OEMs get huuge discounts. I can get hold of the media myself, I'm never going to call MS support blah blah. Surely it can't be too much effort for me to say give Bill $100 from my credit card and him to give me a serial number that'll just mean I get a warm fuzzy inner glow, and don't have to fart around with activation systems and corporate serial keys.
Rumors are that devils0wn will have a "pre-order" discount in December.
https://www.eff.org/https-everywhere
Considering that the new operating system will be a must have for soo many people, why should it cost so much, and why do we need soo many versions. How about just making a good version, instead of multitargeting it and making quality control a nightmare. Lets face it, they are paying for a little glob of PVC and some ink, (and a cute little holograph). Every other aspect of computers has seen economy of scale decreases in prices such as, "Memory $/KB/MB/GB", and "Hard dives $/MB/GB/TB". Wondering, Doug
I thought I read months ago Microsoft would make Vista their cheapest OS yet at 69 dollars to compete with other OSes and increase the purchase of end users buying legit copies, I guess that was too good to be true. I forgot how money grubbing MS was, no wonder why so many people pirate MS products.. I'm seriously thinking of switching to a mac after hearing garbage like this or possibly back to linux.. Microsoft you suck!!!