I actually enjoy math, personally, but I have to agree with the parent - the majority of development is -not- math. There are a few specialized fields that are require a good math foundations (like you mentioned; image processing, sound, video, etc), but that makes up a very small percentage of developed software.
Most software development these days is for internal applications, encapsulating business logic. The hardcore math in the small percentage that requires it typically is encapsulated into a very small library/package, with the bulk of the code being logic/structure/UI -around- that package.
In all seriousness, a single point of failure means you only have to worry about one person's key being comprimised. On the other hand, multiple developers available to sign something means multiple points that could have the key stolen.
A backup is a good idea - escrow of some sort, but having multiple devs sign sounds like a bad idea IMHO.
I can see where you are coming from, but the parent you replying to has some valid points.
Basically, ID does not predict anything.
You probably are familiar with Behe, and the whole idea of Irreducable Complexity, and claim that it is a testable thing - the problem is with the definition.
Behe does NOT allow a part to change usages. Evolution basically requires a part to change use. That is the whole idea. Behe also says certain chemical cascades and structures are not reducable - but if you actually look at each of his claims (Clot system, eyeball, flagellums, etc), you find that they ARE reducable - even he admits in interviews (post-book) that he cannot test, for certain, if something is irreducable complex.
He even admits that the examples he gave ARE reducable, when actually confronted with evidence (Some creatures being found without a given gene or protein).
The biggest thing is that a gene can't change functions though - that happens quite a lot through gene copying incidents, and then mutations to a gene copy.
Remember - Scientific theory means it must be testable - even though some people with high IQ's believe, it does not mean it is a true scientific theory.
If you're going to argue Young Earth, atleast get your facts right. Don't regurgitate something that you don't fully understand.
2nd law of thermodynamics applies to CLOSED systems only. The SUN is giving us energy, so Earth by itself is not closed, it is GAINING energy. LIFE uses this to energy to power complex chemical machinery.
Also, as far as "entropy == disorganized" goes.. This is a false statement as well. A lot of text books, including science, state it this way as an analogy, but when you get to the actual definition, it refers to loss of USABLE energy.
In other words: You can't create a perpetual motion machine - there is energy "wasted" in every conversion. Eventually you run out of used, captured, energy in the system.
With adware, viruses, and limited amount of repair options available for XP (When critical system files get damaged), computer repair shops will be very much affected by this. It will definitly raise the cost of reinstalling Windows, and the general "Total Cost of Ownership" when a reinstall needs to happen.
I just can't imagine that paying all these people to handle activations is worth the money. Especially when this punishes the customers, and does little to help track down the copiers.
I agree that the need may have been exagerated, but I think the idea was a little before it's time.
I personally though it was neat, but couldn't find a use for it. There's a lot of use now though for Tivo's, which even have functionality for browsing photo's on a network now. I've a friend who has an x-box modded to play back home movie avi's, DVD archiving, and MP3's and photos. It's all pretty neat and useful. I've seen that MythTV even has a video-conferencing add-on available now, which is pretty cool.
Just a matter of -need- and -use- though. A sit-down computer is much better for web browsing and email. TV's are great for shared use though. Just that most people don't have a need to share the things the set-top boxes are good at. Most people arn't even aware of the stuff that could be useful when the computer is in use (RSS feeds, etc).
On a somewhat off-note, don't a lot of fantasy games put up barriers between some of the races? Elves and dwarves not getting along, etc. Should I complain next time next time Boulder's Gate doesn't give my dwarf character the same good deal the elven one got?
It's a shame people are so sensitive. Yes, I know it's difficult for me to understand not being in a minority, but I don't get offended when I read on how early settlers in this nation were discriminated against.
It was in the historical context of the game. Get people together in the game and make laws against it! That's what the game is about right?
We already spent how much money redoing all this airport "security"? I'm sure those changes you suggested would have been far less then all of that - and it would have had some useful qualities, besides just being a huge inconvinence to everyone flying, as well as providing no real security (Between false positives, and false negatives, there's really no point).
I think it's be cause a lot of people (not all) here see it as a waste. The time/effort spent making it run XP embedded, and making the hardware accomidate all that storage space, could have spent making it run a light OS. XP Embedded is small, but last I heard bare-minimum was still several MB. A lighter OS could have fit on smaller hardware, and provided more space for other stuff, or a small plane design in all.
Even if they wanted to use a.net implementation there are several linux ones available as well - or Java could have even been used. A lighter CPU could have been used (or several), and it would have been a much more impressive feat.
Throwing XP embedded, a 1 gb drive, 800 mhz CPU, and.NET runtime isn't a well-enginieered solution. It _IS_ however impressive that consumer-level products can be used for such a thing. Interesting in it's own way. And I'm sure it had it's own hurdles. It's just that from the enginieering point of view, the initial reaction is "Well, yeah, but what a waste".
What does this have to do with OpenSource? Specifically, what problem does it present that is not shared with ANY software?
If we're going to compare Linux and Microsoft - have you noticed all the backdoors and trojans and worms out there lately? These security holes that are being used were not (likely) put in there on purpose - they're simple mistakes. Left by coders, in a CLOSED SOURCE company. There's no need to go to open source to get bad code!
Are you a coder? Have you participated, or ran, an open sourced project? In such a thing, you don't just accept code. You read it through, test it, and make sure it will do the job before compiling it.
Sure, you don't do a background check on every person submitting code - but you DO make sure the code does what it needs to, and that it does not have blatent bugs in it. Atleast the code that's submitted this way gets CHECKED AND APPROVED. That's not the case in all closed source companies - they don't all review code changes!
Has there been a background/security check on everyone that submitted code for use in NT4 SP6 that's used in high security defense systems? No. It's just not possible.
Atleast with embedded system, that are OS, the code can be all checked because it's small enough where it's a fully solvable and testable system.
And what does information stealing have to do with even pure source code?? Most "hacks" like that are social enginieering (email attachments, "CoOL CURSoRs! HeRE!"), etc. high security organizations use reverse firewalls to make sure nothing important is going out!
This could be a pain if it evolves further - and that the virus writers figure out ways of exploiting the debuggers that are running. I'm not aware of any exploits for any debuggers - so that's good atleast!
I'm so sick of all of the protection they're putting on the junk that's out there. Over half the DVD's out there are less then 15$ now. Most of the broadcasts they'd be protecting would be between 3$ (for a rental) and 20$ (to buy). How much of those are really stolen and actually impact sales?
The extremes that are being gone to are just outragous.
That gives us something else to consider/worry about.. What would happen if the next virus went and changed everyone's keys? Coupled with a remote exploit, that'd bring the net, and MS's activation scheme, to it's knees.
All of the people I've set up blockers for, and know that use blockers, wouldn't buy anything from a pop-up ad -because- it's annoying. Same goes for spam. They sure arn't the kind that are "easilly tempted", and use the pop-up blocker to stop them from being "tempted" to buy.
Some out there may be, but it's been my experience that most of them (myself especially included) arn't.
We've had the same slight issues here - OpenOffice.org is a little slower on the load, but other then that, it's doing a great job.
What was great is the XML file format - it allowed us to generate alot of our documents automatically, and have them converted to PDF for print, or to a Writer document for editing/quoting. It makes it really easy to generate a nice doc from a database with only a few backend apps/scripts.
I agree that slashdot's community is biased, but I think it misses the point that -everything- is biased. Including traditional media.
By looking at your current mod level, the bias can't be too far off since everyone agrees that your statement deserves mod points.
I disagree with the self political-alignment disclosure however. Anonymous or not, I think the majority of the commentors here would not want to to assign a simple rating to something as complex (and issue-dependant) as a political stance.
I know a lot of people that are disenchanted with online purchasing already. For some items it's great, for other's, it's dangerous. A lot of people know that, and a lot of people are afraid to purchase online.
I still don't see how this really level's the playing field though. It makes it a -little- closer, IF people actually report it. It's survival of the fittest!
All in all, if customer's really don't like the standard retail shops, and stop shopping there, they WON'T be dissapointed when they're all gone.
Some may say that having dual boot available causes the same thing. Most people are afraid of loosing there data and destroying there system. Repartitioning to do a dual boot can be dangerous. Knoppix, with it's home directories (If only it supported NTFS ones!) allows someone to "play" and "use" a Linux without the nervousness of destroying there system. It shows them that as far as USE goes, it's as easy as Windows is.
I've showed a lot of people Knoppix, and they like it. It shows them Linux isn't scarey. They also like the idea of having a portable home directory on a USB thumbdrive, so you can take the system anywhere.
On a side note, it also shows the power and versitality of Linux more then anything - at work we even put two computers with the exact specs in a race: The Knoppix CD booted to a full KDE environment even before an XP CD was ready to start a setup. It shows MS isn't king, since they have nothing like it, and I think it helps opens ppl's eyes.
I think it comes down to a purest, or functionalist debate - as do a lot of things.
I'm familiar with Java, though mostly code C++. After learning a big of C#, I must say that I like it a LOT better then Java. Java, while more "consistant", also means you have to do more things in a ridgid way when a faster way (instant gratification) is available. That "instant short term gratification" you speak of makes life easier, because it's inconsistant in my opinion.
I agree there's problems with.NET however - the name for one thing is rediculous. And the "Any language" 'feature' basically means any language that looks like C#. All in all though, I do think it's a huge improvement - both above what's out there, and a decent improvement over Java.
personal opinion, based on my own personal habits of course.
I expect the scientists and the politicians to be completely biased and untrustworthy until proven otherwise.
Proven? By whom? You obviously won't take the proof of someone who proves it with science, since that would be a scientist. Maybe just looking for a result, so you yourself can see proof?
With as many lies as the administration as already demonstrated, I'm really surprised that the advisors are putting a "spin" on the science. Who would expect less of a politician? I am however pretty dissapointed with the response.
Seriously - if the chief science advisor was interested in HIS reputation, and that of his administration, wouldn't he refute these claims with something substancial? And, reading through it, the scientists are much more qualified to answer the questions posed.
I must agree with the parent post: Whether or not the engine/compiler/JIT is open sourced is besides the point. Having the actual language and specs a standard ECMA, or otherwise, is the important part.
Sun is free to change things to make it incompatable as well. MS could of course do this, but the standards based implementation will still be the "correct" one in the end.
Mono's implementation will still be useful because anything MS changes will need to be backward compatable with the ECMA standard - which makes the knowledge portable between a.NET implementation and a Mono one. Even if they do add extra frills, the standard ECMA version is a very useable one.
While you do have some points with parts of mono being "non-standardized", you forget that it'd be fairly straight forward to simply remove those parts, and not worry about it.
You still havn't mentioned why you would feel safer using a 3rd party Java environment under Linux, when Sun may hold several patents on it. Or anyone for that matter.
Also, as the above reply had also mentioned: Who is this "We", and "our", and "us" ?? You surely don't speak for me.
Slashdot Mirror
I actually enjoy math, personally, but I have to agree with the parent - the majority of development is -not- math. There are a few specialized fields that are require a good math foundations (like you mentioned; image processing, sound, video, etc), but that makes up a very small percentage of developed software.
Most software development these days is for internal applications, encapsulating business logic. The hardcore math in the small percentage that requires it typically is encapsulated into a very small library/package, with the bulk of the code being logic/structure/UI -around- that package.
You'd prefer multiple points of failure? :-)
In all seriousness, a single point of failure means you only have to worry about one person's key being comprimised. On the other hand, multiple developers available to sign something means multiple points that could have the key stolen.
A backup is a good idea - escrow of some sort, but having multiple devs sign sounds like a bad idea IMHO.
I can see where you are coming from, but the parent you replying to has some valid points.
Basically, ID does not predict anything.
You probably are familiar with Behe, and the whole idea of Irreducable Complexity, and claim that it is a testable thing - the problem is with the definition.
Behe does NOT allow a part to change usages. Evolution basically requires a part to change use. That is the whole idea. Behe also says certain chemical cascades and structures are not reducable - but if you actually look at each of his claims (Clot system, eyeball, flagellums, etc), you find that they ARE reducable - even he admits in interviews (post-book) that he cannot test, for certain, if something is irreducable complex.
He even admits that the examples he gave ARE reducable, when actually confronted with evidence (Some creatures being found without a given gene or protein).
The biggest thing is that a gene can't change functions though - that happens quite a lot through gene copying incidents, and then mutations to a gene copy.
Remember - Scientific theory means it must be testable - even though some people with high IQ's believe, it does not mean it is a true scientific theory.
If you're going to argue Young Earth, atleast get your facts right. Don't regurgitate something that you don't fully understand.
2nd law of thermodynamics applies to CLOSED systems only. The SUN is giving us energy, so Earth by itself is not closed, it is GAINING energy. LIFE uses this to energy to power complex chemical machinery.
Also, as far as "entropy == disorganized" goes.. This is a false statement as well. A lot of text books, including science, state it this way as an analogy, but when you get to the actual definition, it refers to loss of USABLE energy.
In other words: You can't create a perpetual motion machine - there is energy "wasted" in every conversion. Eventually you run out of used, captured, energy in the system.
This IS an issue that effects people.
With adware, viruses, and limited amount of repair options available for XP (When critical system files get damaged), computer repair shops will be very much affected by this. It will definitly raise the cost of reinstalling Windows, and the general "Total Cost of Ownership" when a reinstall needs to happen.
I just can't imagine that paying all these people to handle activations is worth the money. Especially when this punishes the customers, and does little to help track down the copiers.
... stands for "Reduced Instruction Set Chip". :)
I agree that the need may have been exagerated, but I think the idea was a little before it's time.
I personally though it was neat, but couldn't find a use for it. There's a lot of use now though for Tivo's, which even have functionality for browsing photo's on a network now. I've a friend who has an x-box modded to play back home movie avi's, DVD archiving, and MP3's and photos. It's all pretty neat and useful. I've seen that MythTV even has a video-conferencing add-on available now, which is pretty cool.
Just a matter of -need- and -use- though. A sit-down computer is much better for web browsing and email. TV's are great for shared use though. Just that most people don't have a need to share the things the set-top boxes are good at. Most people arn't even aware of the stuff that could be useful when the computer is in use (RSS feeds, etc).
I agree completely with this.
On a somewhat off-note, don't a lot of fantasy games put up barriers between some of the races? Elves and dwarves not getting along, etc. Should I complain next time next time Boulder's Gate doesn't give my dwarf character the same good deal the elven one got?
It's a shame people are so sensitive. Yes, I know it's difficult for me to understand not being in a minority, but I don't get offended when I read on how early settlers in this nation were discriminated against.
It was in the historical context of the game. Get people together in the game and make laws against it! That's what the game is about right?
We already spent how much money redoing all this airport "security"? I'm sure those changes you suggested would have been far less then all of that - and it would have had some useful qualities, besides just being a huge inconvinence to everyone flying, as well as providing no real security (Between false positives, and false negatives, there's really no point).
I think it's be cause a lot of people (not all) here see it as a waste. The time/effort spent making it run XP embedded, and making the hardware accomidate all that storage space, could have spent making it run a light OS. XP Embedded is small, but last I heard bare-minimum was still several MB. A lighter OS could have fit on smaller hardware, and provided more space for other stuff, or a small plane design in all.
.net implementation there are several linux ones available as well - or Java could have even been used. A lighter CPU could have been used (or several), and it would have been a much more impressive feat.
.NET runtime isn't a well-enginieered solution. It _IS_ however impressive that consumer-level products can be used for such a thing. Interesting in it's own way. And I'm sure it had it's own hurdles. It's just that from the enginieering point of view, the initial reaction is "Well, yeah, but what a waste".
Even if they wanted to use a
Throwing XP embedded, a 1 gb drive, 800 mhz CPU, and
What does this have to do with OpenSource? Specifically, what problem does it present that is not shared with ANY software?
If we're going to compare Linux and Microsoft - have you noticed all the backdoors and trojans and worms out there lately? These security holes that are being used were not (likely) put in there on purpose - they're simple mistakes. Left by coders, in a CLOSED SOURCE company. There's no need to go to open source to get bad code!
Are you a coder? Have you participated, or ran, an open sourced project? In such a thing, you don't just accept code. You read it through, test it, and make sure it will do the job before compiling it.
Sure, you don't do a background check on every person submitting code - but you DO make sure the code does what it needs to, and that it does not have blatent bugs in it. Atleast the code that's submitted this way gets CHECKED AND APPROVED. That's not the case in all closed source companies - they don't all review code changes!
Has there been a background/security check on everyone that submitted code for use in NT4 SP6 that's used in high security defense systems? No. It's just not possible.
Atleast with embedded system, that are OS, the code can be all checked because it's small enough where it's a fully solvable and testable system.
And what does information stealing have to do with even pure source code?? Most "hacks" like that are social enginieering (email attachments, "CoOL CURSoRs! HeRE!"), etc. high security organizations use reverse firewalls to make sure nothing important is going out!
This could be a pain if it evolves further - and that the virus writers figure out ways of exploiting the debuggers that are running. I'm not aware of any exploits for any debuggers - so that's good atleast!
I love how this is moderated as "informative"... :-)
I agree with this statement.
I'm so sick of all of the protection they're putting on the junk that's out there. Over half the DVD's out there are less then 15$ now. Most of the broadcasts they'd be protecting would be between 3$ (for a rental) and 20$ (to buy). How much of those are really stolen and actually impact sales?
The extremes that are being gone to are just outragous.
That gives us something else to consider/worry about..
What would happen if the next virus went and changed everyone's keys? Coupled with a remote exploit, that'd bring the net, and MS's activation scheme, to it's knees.
All of the people I've set up blockers for, and know that use blockers, wouldn't buy anything from a pop-up ad -because- it's annoying. Same goes for spam. They sure arn't the kind that are "easilly tempted", and use the pop-up blocker to stop them from being "tempted" to buy.
Some out there may be, but it's been my experience that most of them (myself especially included) arn't.
We've had the same slight issues here - OpenOffice.org is a little slower on the load, but other then that, it's doing a great job.
What was great is the XML file format - it allowed us to generate alot of our documents automatically, and have them converted to PDF for print, or to a Writer document for editing/quoting. It makes it really easy to generate a nice doc from a database with only a few backend apps/scripts.
I agree that slashdot's community is biased, but I think it misses the point that -everything- is biased. Including traditional media.
By looking at your current mod level, the bias can't be too far off since everyone agrees that your statement deserves mod points.
I disagree with the self political-alignment disclosure however. Anonymous or not, I think the majority of the commentors here would not want to to assign a simple rating to something as complex (and issue-dependant) as a political stance.
The Surpreme Being has .. it's just that it's all programmed with DNA, which doesn't seem to be documented.. :-/
I know a lot of people that are disenchanted with online purchasing already. For some items it's great, for other's, it's dangerous. A lot of people know that, and a lot of people are afraid to purchase online.
I still don't see how this really level's the playing field though. It makes it a -little- closer, IF people actually report it. It's survival of the fittest!
All in all, if customer's really don't like the standard retail shops, and stop shopping there, they WON'T be dissapointed when they're all gone.
Some may say that having dual boot available causes the same thing. Most people are afraid of loosing there data and destroying there system. Repartitioning to do a dual boot can be dangerous. Knoppix, with it's home directories (If only it supported NTFS ones!) allows someone to "play" and "use" a Linux without the nervousness of destroying there system. It shows them that as far as USE goes, it's as easy as Windows is.
I've showed a lot of people Knoppix, and they like it. It shows them Linux isn't scarey. They also like the idea of having a portable home directory on a USB thumbdrive, so you can take the system anywhere.
On a side note, it also shows the power and versitality of Linux more then anything - at work we even put two computers with the exact specs in a race: The Knoppix CD booted to a full KDE environment even before an XP CD was ready to start a setup. It shows MS isn't king, since they have nothing like it, and I think it helps opens ppl's eyes.
I think it comes down to a purest, or functionalist debate - as do a lot of things.
.NET however - the name for one thing is rediculous. And the "Any language" 'feature' basically means any language that looks like C#. All in all though, I do think it's a huge improvement - both above what's out there, and a decent improvement over Java.
I'm familiar with Java, though mostly code C++. After learning a big of C#, I must say that I like it a LOT better then Java. Java, while more "consistant", also means you have to do more things in a ridgid way when a faster way (instant gratification) is available. That "instant short term gratification" you speak of makes life easier, because it's inconsistant in my opinion.
I agree there's problems with
personal opinion, based on my own personal habits of course.
I expect the scientists and the politicians to be completely biased and untrustworthy until proven otherwise.
Proven? By whom? You obviously won't take the proof of someone who proves it with science, since that would be a scientist. Maybe just looking for a result, so you yourself can see proof?
With as many lies as the administration as already demonstrated, I'm really surprised that the advisors are putting a "spin" on the science. Who would expect less of a politician? I am however pretty dissapointed with the response.
Seriously - if the chief science advisor was interested in HIS reputation, and that of his administration, wouldn't he refute these claims with something substancial? And, reading through it, the scientists are much more qualified to answer the questions posed.
I must agree with the parent post: Whether or not the engine/compiler/JIT is open sourced is besides the point. Having the actual language and specs a standard ECMA, or otherwise, is the important part.
.NET implementation and a Mono one. Even if they do add extra frills, the standard ECMA version is a very useable one.
Sun is free to change things to make it incompatable as well. MS could of course do this, but the standards based implementation will still be the "correct" one in the end.
Mono's implementation will still be useful because anything MS changes will need to be backward compatable with the ECMA standard - which makes the knowledge portable between a
While you do have some points with parts of mono being "non-standardized", you forget that it'd be fairly straight forward to simply remove those parts, and not worry about it.
You still havn't mentioned why you would feel safer using a 3rd party Java environment under Linux, when Sun may hold several patents on it. Or anyone for that matter.
Also, as the above reply had also mentioned: Who is this "We", and "our", and "us" ?? You surely don't speak for me.