What "real channels and programming" are you talking about?
People who say there's nothing on t.v ever are must just be watching Fox and all the new reality shit, and ignoring all the good stuff that's on. How about a little History Channel, TLC, Discorvery(s), more sports than one can imagine, news 24 hours with whatever kind of slant you prefer, etc.
So no, there's not always something good on all the time, but most of the time I can find something that's pretty interesting.
iIt's high time that we look at the systems that allow this type of invasion,
What systems don't allow this? Paid attention to the recent bugs in OSS apps? It is the "users" - read admin's responsibility to keep up with these things. No system is immune.
Well if you look at the original description of the project it used data from TIGER and FIPS , which are US centric, so if that's the way it's still being done, I guess they'd need that data for the rest of the world.
Back to my fantasy vision? So - in the financial IT industry, there aren't any smart people? Damn you're informative. I'd have thought that all those ATM's and banks the have intraweb sites weren't loosing money - but they're fuckups apparently so they probably are and just don't notice it. Stupid "penny pinching morons."
Real world - is everyone who programs for a bank a genius. No. Are there a couple of them in the industry? Goddamn right.
Raddical decision? How about use Linux? Free - no licensing - absolutley superior to windows from the/. perspective. So this "radical decison", to deploy a stripped down version of the OS that runs on more computers than any other, a much improved version of the same OS that has been running on ATM's since att least 1995, was probably done withougt any thouhgt. Obvious answer.
Damn I wish I had your clarity. It's so nice to be in this fantasy world.
The people that make decisions are worried most about how much it's going to cost.
Well then this would be the poster project for Linux right? Free, open source, etc. Should be cheaper. You want to admit that'd it be cheaper to develop the system with Windows?
You're obvisouly unaware of who called the shots, as I doubt you were there.
Re:Mo Money! Mo Money! Mo Money!
on
Windows ATMs by 2005
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· Score: 5, Insightful
You're forgetting that there are actaully some smart people in the banking industry that will realize that having your ATM's running windows hooked up to the internet is a bad idea. The people that make these kinds of decisions are not fools.
.NET will pull out the Windows centric underpinnings - eventually. They have the problem of supporting an API which still works with existing apps, plus a whole new bread of beast.
Eventually Win32 will disappear - and the OS will run on the.NET framework. When? When clients of MS stop writing Win32 apps. Wait a few years - it will happen. My company will never go back to the older MS techs, and that's the direction every sane MS shop will take.
Oh, let the bullshit flow. Give me some examples! If you don't think.NET can compare with J2EE - especially making the comparison between Access and Oracle similar to.NET and J2EE, then you truly don't have a objective viewpoint.
Of couse, enterprise applications (SAP, JDEdwards, etc...), which have the highest TCP ratings were on the Win32 platform - but they must have taken a step back with.NET! Fools - and I only thought that now that I'm cranking out apps with.NET I was much more efficient. Damn, time to break out the C++ ATL COM bible.
Now, if you're only talking about code that can run on a VM anywhere, then you might have a point. That's the only place where J2EE/Java has an advantage, and I'd argue the reason is it's an older technology. Don't be surprised when you see the.NET compact framework on your precious Java enabled hardware soon.
I have respect for both technologies, but you made a very unfair comparison, just wanted to point that out.
I was having some margaritas with my friends when we decided we needed to access some scripture. Did a search, found the first bible site I could, went to it - WHAM! Locked out of the web for good. Incompatible content type. Had to reset my entire phone's inet settings. Apparently someone up above didn't think those of us who have some doubts should access the text!
You've yet to state what you think should be done about it, yet you're shooting back at everybody who disagrees with you.
I've been to jail for two days, and I guarantee you that I do not ever perform the action that put in that place again.
This was a MAJOR problem for a huge number of people, costing unknown sums of cash. This kid needs to know how bad of a thing he did, and I think about a year of reflection will do that to him, and he won't come out a corrupted person. If he does it's his own damn fault.
Also, other people need to be scared of the reprecussions from such actions.
The kid is 18, and he knew what he was doing, and I don't feel sorry for him.
Chip on his shoulders? He has to realize that he did something bad. How would you fix the problem - counseling? Say bad boy! That'll sure show others that writing worms that can cause massive damage is a bad thing to do!
I'm not that much older than that kid, and I'm pretty damn aware of the severe problems a worm like this can cause. He created problems for millions of people, didn't it shut down nuclear power plant safety equipment? I mean, they have to have the evidence, but if it can be proved, you teach the kid a lesson.
I think he should be fined heavily and given about a year of jail time.
he really sad thing is that the marketplace clearly agrees with Microsoft about this tradeoff: corporate and personal users are far more concerned with having the power of macros/Visual Basic/etc built in to everything than with even basic security.
I think you just summed it up right there. These are features that everyday users will not use all the time, but they are extremely powerful when written as tools for those users. I've automated every single office application over the course of my 6 year programming carreer at the request of the client, and they're always quite pleased.
MS bought a totally unnecessary Unix license for quite a large sum of money.
I agree the timing was suspicious - but MS does have unix tools, and they were probably just giving SCO a boost, which couldn't hurt them. But people have equated that action to a plot from the depth of Redmond to destroy Linux, and I at least haven't seen any other evidence..however, speaking out of personal experience, I've seen much more personal insults coming out of anti-Linux posters than from pro-Linux ones (who generally aim their attacks at MS, not at invidual Windows users).
You and I my friend have had exactly experiences here. Read at -1, and watch the flames and trolls that are spewed at MS / MS users for every possible thing. Comparisons to Satan are quite common.
So, you had problems with the charting component, but you plan on having the complete application available as a COM library within a year? Seems like ambitious goals to me, but then again I have no idea what type of team you're working with.
Please note, this is not a knock on you. I couldn't code a spreadsheet without some serious research, if at all. I just think people underestimate the power of MS Office./ VBA.
Prove that. I don't have it here right now, but I've seen the XML, and it make sense are far as the documents it's describing. To say it's like the old.doc format is ridicolous.
You may not like the way they structure their XML, and it might not be easy considering it has to support around 95% of computer documents of it's type, but you can certainly read what the parts of the document are.
They got to shut down a Linux distro and crippled Word Perfect, the then dominant comercial text editor and main competitor to Microsoft Office, Microsoft't big cash cow.
How was MS able to do this? When you buy stock in a company, do you get to decide what products that company produces? If so - let's all buy MS stock and force them to stop making windows!
Corell lost that value because Word Perfect lost it's market share, market share it could easily have maintained with it's Linux distribution.
Okay - let's be generous and pretend Linux had a 5% market share at that time. How could they have easliy retained their marketshare with a desktop Word Processor selling on an OS that 95% of the world didn't use?
Maybe it is just a preference, but I have yet to show someone both systems and have them choose Windows as a better one.
Gee, I'm sure you presented them in a fair and balanced manner, right?
As for your calculator jab - I don't remember how I found it - if I went through the Finder or whatever it is, then eventually found Applications, and yes I assumed it would be there. But the point is I didn't just think "Calculator", and boom, instantly know where it was, because of the brilliance of the OSX interface.
You have to learn any freakin system. But we'll never see eye to eye on this, after all, Apple zealouts ranked right up there with Anti-MS zealots in the recent poll.
It's just a matter of preference. System Preferernce or "Control Panel" - wow, so much better. I hate that when you close a window, the app doesn't shut down. Why shouldn't it? If I wanted to hide the window, I'd minimize it!
But these are just nitpicky. You could go on, I could go on, but neither of the systems have things where you'd expect them to be. You have to learn your system, regardless of which kind it is.
See, I know windows, so things are where I'd expect them to be. I had to spend a few minutes finding a calculator on OSX, not knowing the system.
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What "real channels and programming" are you talking about?
People who say there's nothing on t.v ever are must just be watching Fox and all the new reality shit, and ignoring all the good stuff that's on. How about a little History Channel, TLC, Discorvery(s), more sports than one can imagine, news 24 hours with whatever kind of slant you prefer, etc.
So no, there's not always something good on all the time, but most of the time I can find something that's pretty interesting.
iIt's high time that we look at the systems that allow this type of invasion,
What systems don't allow this? Paid attention to the recent bugs in OSS apps? It is the "users" - read admin's responsibility to keep up with these things. No system is immune.
Well if you look at the original description of the project it used data from TIGER and
FIPS , which are US centric, so if that's the way it's still being done, I guess they'd need that data for the rest of the world.
Genius reply! Oh shit - a program had a bug - maybe NT, maybe the ATM software.
Why didn't they use the holiness that is Linux for this project, because they're dumb fucks. No debating it.
Banks are not realy this stupid are they? \
Nope. They sure aren't. But your interpretation of their decsion might be.
So you're point is that the whole decsion came down to a boss that wants to use excel demanded the whole 'crisis?"
Back to my fantasy vision? So - in the financial IT industry, there aren't any smart people? Damn you're informative. I'd have thought that all those ATM's and banks the have intraweb sites weren't loosing money - but they're fuckups apparently so they probably are and just don't notice it. Stupid "penny pinching morons."
/. perspective. So this "radical decison", to deploy a stripped down version of the OS that runs on more computers than any other, a much improved version of the same OS that has been running on ATM's since att least 1995, was probably done withougt any thouhgt. Obvious answer.
Real world - is everyone who programs for a bank a genius. No. Are there a couple of them in the industry? Goddamn right.
Raddical decision? How about use Linux? Free - no licensing - absolutley superior to windows from the
Damn I wish I had your clarity. It's so nice to be in this fantasy world.
The people that make decisions are worried most about how much it's going to cost.
Well then this would be the poster project for Linux right? Free, open source, etc. Should be cheaper. You want to admit that'd it be cheaper to develop the system with Windows?
Are you comaring a single software company / product to the financial industry's IT talent?
You're obvisouly unaware of who called the shots, as I doubt you were there.
You're forgetting that there are actaully some smart people in the banking industry that will realize that having your ATM's running windows hooked up to the internet is a bad idea. The people that make these kinds of decisions are not fools.
lol, give me a couple of years and maybe I'll agree, I'm still one of those little bastards (well almost) :)
Doesn't every generation see the following one in a negative light?
.NET will pull out the Windows centric underpinnings - eventually. They have the problem of supporting an API which still works with existing apps, plus a whole new bread of beast.
.NET framework. When? When clients of MS stop writing Win32 apps. Wait a few years - it will happen. My company will never go back to the older MS techs, and that's the direction every sane MS shop will take.
Eventually Win32 will disappear - and the OS will run on the
Oh, let the bullshit flow. Give me some examples! If you don't think .NET can compare with J2EE - especially making the comparison between Access and Oracle similar to .NET and J2EE, then you truly don't have a objective viewpoint.
.NET! Fools - and I only thought that now that I'm cranking out apps with .NET I was much more efficient. Damn, time to break out the C++ ATL COM bible.
.NET compact framework on your precious Java enabled hardware soon.
Of couse, enterprise applications (SAP, JDEdwards, etc...), which have the highest TCP ratings were on the Win32 platform - but they must have taken a step back with
Now, if you're only talking about code that can run on a VM anywhere, then you might have a point. That's the only place where J2EE/Java has an advantage, and I'd argue the reason is it's an older technology. Don't be surprised when you see the
I have respect for both technologies, but you made a very unfair comparison, just wanted to point that out.
I was having some margaritas with my friends when we decided we needed to access some scripture. Did a search, found the first bible site I could, went to it - WHAM! Locked out of the web for good. Incompatible content type. Had to reset my entire phone's inet settings. Apparently someone up above didn't think those of us who have some doubts should access the text!
You've yet to state what you think should be done about it, yet you're shooting back at everybody who disagrees with you.
I've been to jail for two days, and I guarantee you that I do not ever perform the action that put in that place again.
This was a MAJOR problem for a huge number of people, costing unknown sums of cash. This kid needs to know how bad of a thing he did, and I think about a year of reflection will do that to him, and he won't come out a corrupted person. If he does it's his own damn fault.
Also, other people need to be scared of the reprecussions from such actions.
The kid is 18, and he knew what he was doing, and I don't feel sorry for him.
Chip on his shoulders? He has to realize that he did something bad. How would you fix the problem - counseling? Say bad boy! That'll sure show others that writing worms that can cause massive damage is a bad thing to do!
What's your solution, really?
I'm not that much older than that kid, and I'm pretty damn aware of the severe problems a worm like this can cause. He created problems for millions of people, didn't it shut down nuclear power plant safety equipment? I mean, they have to have the evidence, but if it can be proved, you teach the kid a lesson.
I think he should be fined heavily and given about a year of jail time.
he really sad thing is that the marketplace clearly agrees with Microsoft about this tradeoff: corporate and personal users are far more concerned with having the power of macros/Visual Basic/etc built in to everything than with even basic security.
I think you just summed it up right there. These are features that everyday users will not use all the time, but they are extremely powerful when written as tools for those users. I've automated every single office application over the course of my 6 year programming carreer at the request of the client, and they're always quite pleased.
MS bought a totally unnecessary Unix license for quite a large sum of money.
.however, speaking out of personal experience, I've seen much more personal insults coming out of anti-Linux posters than from pro-Linux ones (who generally aim their attacks at MS, not at invidual Windows users).
I agree the timing was suspicious - but MS does have unix tools, and they were probably just giving SCO a boost, which couldn't hurt them. But people have equated that action to a plot from the depth of Redmond to destroy Linux, and I at least haven't seen any other evidence.
You and I my friend have had exactly experiences here. Read at -1, and watch the flames and trolls that are spewed at MS / MS users for every possible thing. Comparisons to Satan are quite common.
So, you had problems with the charting component, but you plan on having the complete application available as a COM library within a year? Seems like ambitious goals to me, but then again I have no idea what type of team you're working with.
./ VBA.
Please note, this is not a knock on you. I couldn't code a spreadsheet without some serious research, if at all. I just think people underestimate the power of MS Office
Prove that. I don't have it here right now, but I've seen the XML, and it make sense are far as the documents it's describing. To say it's like the old .doc format is ridicolous.
You may not like the way they structure their XML, and it might not be easy considering it has to support around 95% of computer documents of it's type, but you can certainly read what the parts of the document are.
They got to shut down a Linux distro and crippled Word Perfect, the then dominant comercial text editor and main competitor to Microsoft Office, Microsoft't big cash cow.
How was MS able to do this? When you buy stock in a company, do you get to decide what products that company produces? If so - let's all buy MS stock and force them to stop making windows!
Corell lost that value because Word Perfect lost it's market share, market share it could easily have maintained with it's Linux distribution.
Okay - let's be generous and pretend Linux had a 5% market share at that time. How could they have easliy retained their marketshare with a desktop Word Processor selling on an OS that 95% of the world didn't use?
Maybe it is just a preference, but I have yet to show someone both systems and have them choose Windows as a better one.
Gee, I'm sure you presented them in a fair and balanced manner, right?
As for your calculator jab - I don't remember how I found it - if I went through the Finder or whatever it is, then eventually found Applications, and yes I assumed it would be there. But the point is I didn't just think "Calculator", and boom, instantly know where it was, because of the brilliance of the OSX interface.
You have to learn any freakin system. But we'll never see eye to eye on this, after all, Apple zealouts ranked right up there with Anti-MS zealots in the recent poll.
It's just a matter of preference. System Preferernce or "Control Panel" - wow, so much better. I hate that when you close a window, the app doesn't shut down. Why shouldn't it? If I wanted to hide the window, I'd minimize it!
But these are just nitpicky. You could go on, I could go on, but neither of the systems have things where you'd expect them to be. You have to learn your system, regardless of which kind it is.
See, I know windows, so things are where I'd expect them to be. I had to spend a few minutes finding a calculator on OSX, not knowing the system.