Taken from the Playstation.com forums (nice work!): ----------------
CREDIT goes to Xrobx who posted these in another thread and i wanted to make sure that everyone sees them...
Sony Computer Entertainment Inc.: "In addition to playing games, watching movies, listening to music, and viewing photos, you can use the PS3 system to run the Linux operating system. By installing the Linux operating system, you can use the PS3 system not only as an entry-level personal computer with hundreds of familiar applications for home and office use, but also as a complete development environment for the Cell Broadband Engine (Cell/B.E.)." http://www.playstation.com/ps3-openplatform/index.html
(http://74.125.113.132/search?q=cache:byasL-PxEiMJ:www.playstation.com/ps3-openplatform/index.html+http://www.playstation.com/ps3-openplatform/index.html&cd=1&hl=en&ct=cln k&gl=us&client=safari) - google's cached page of the above hyperlink from March 30th 2010 which does not say anything about FW 3.21 removing Other OS. I've saved the page in case it goes offline, copy http address into browser as link probably won't work. Or, just search google and get the cached page. - kiyyto.
Sony Computer Entertainment Inc., 2006-2009: "The Linux Distributor's Starter Kit provides information, binary and source codes to Linux Distribution developers who wants to make their distro support PS3." http://www.kernel.org/pub/linux
Izumi Kawanishi, Sony, May 2006: "Because we have plans for having Linux on board [the PS3], we also recognize Linux programming activities... Other than game studios tied to official developer licenses, we'd like to see various individuals participate in content creation for the PS3." http://www.gamasutra.com/php-bin/news_index.php?story=9290
Geoffrey Levand, August 2009, Principal Software Engineer at Sony Corporation: "Please be assured that SCE is committed to continue the support for previously sold models that have the "Install Other OS" feature and that this feature will not be disabled in future firmware releases." mailing list to PS3 customers using Linux
Phil Harrison, May 2006, President of Sony Computer Entertainment Worldwide Studios 2005-2008: "The Playstation 3 is a computer. We do not need the PC." http://www.spiegel.de/netzwelt/web/0,1518,418642,00.html SONY Make.Believe... you didn't see that
Sony was OK wirh homebrew... but only when the PS3 platform was young and vulnerable. Remember how the platform launched for $600-$700 and a lot of people thought it would fail, possibly bankrupting Sony in the process?
This is how they thank us.
This was my only console purchase since the Super Nintendo. I've always been a PC gamer, going way back to 64K Atari XL computers. I know others will say it and not mean it, but if Sony does not fix this I will *never* buy any Sony product (of any kind) again. It's been 2 decades anyways since Sony home theater products were associated with the word "quality".
Sony ADVERTISES a feature. I buy a product BECAUSE of that feature. This is a transaction. Then Sony time-bombs or removes that feature. I have had something taken away from ME, and you have the balls to suggest this cost Sony? On what planet sir do you spend most of your time?
Now, let's proceed with your outrageous suggestion that mega corporations have a right to shut down customers who are less profitable. Suggesting that "OtherOS costs Sony real money" is no less applicable than saying "Blu-Ray users cost Sony real money".. should Sony disable PS3 users who play movies but DON'T play games? Are you SERIOUS??
I use OtherOS. I have Linux on my laptop, but it's nice to demo things on the TV and not have to hook up the laptop. Actually, why the hell should I have to justify using something I already paid for?
This merely unshackles video from the prison of proprietary Flash Video format, and converts the video into a real standard. Hooray for that.
This does not bring "Flash" to the iPad. This does not even bring Flash Mobile Profile to the iPad. This is not a way to get around Apple's ban on a Flash interpreter on the system. The headline is *awful* and completely incorrect.
Please... let's NOT confuse "Flash encoded video" with Flash itself. Doing so only HELPS Adobe and Flash, because it furthers the misconception that Flash made web video "possible" (or even "better"). Things were much better when Quicktime was the web standard (presuming we're not comparing yesterday's codecs to todays of course). Video is meant to be processed natively and with hardware support.
This is just a Flash video web transcoder... which is in itself a good thing, but it would be nice if the editors here actually *edited* corrections when needed.
Way to not be objective.. "falling DVD sales due to piracy".
Really - is that alleged link reported as a fact now? Even on Slashdot?
I thought DVD sales were plummeting because everyone was using Netflix, or buying (or waiting for) the Blu-Ray edition of things... or waiting for the second printing of the Blu-Ray (because the first one ships without "extras" or a bad transfer, just so they can sell you the same BR movie twice).
Or maybe DVD sales are plummeting because we're in the midst of a recession that is so bad that even the well-off and job holding public find themselves cutting unnecessary expenses...
The studios know this, of course, but want the media to continue parroting their "piracy" claims, so they can ram through their undemocratic treaties...
Oh come on, the PS3 is pretty good at what it does. It has an appliance feel and just "works". Sit down at a friend's PS3 and it works much like your own.
PCs haven't connected well to TV's until a few years ago (and that assumes you upgraded to a digital TV.. not everyone has). PC's tend to be noisy.
>The whole point of the removal was to thwart Gehot's efforts on the PS3 hack.
That's the reason Sony provided, but Sony's response is still not valid because:
1) They're taking away something people paid for 2) There's no exploit.
My take on this is that Sony WANTED to remove Linux and needed an excuse. They removed OtherOS from the slim, but Geohot believes the hardware support is still there... I trust his insight on this.
The PS3 OS has evolved to the point where it's a pretty damn good media center, playing just about every video format under the sun. The PS3 did not launch like that, and they knew that Linux support would be attractive to the community and tech geeks, so this was a way to make Microsoft look less open. Sony doesn't need OtherOS because it now is outselling the XBox 360 (and as for the installed base... lets just say that the XB360 install base is just a LITTLE inflated due to users replacing their console 3 times...)
Most likely case is Sony had a change of executives sometime ago and decided they wanted to "fully control the user experience". Here was their excuse to make it retroactive... AND they can arguably deflect some of the anger at GeoHot. You know Sony wants to say it is his fault, even if their claim is not technically sound.
This is one class action lawsuit I look forward to signing on to.
Of course, if the US consumer protection laws had any real teeth, there would not be any need to depend on lawyers (who end up claiming most of the compensation for themselves).
"2- : the ploy of offering a person something desirable to gain favor (as political support) then thwarting expectations with something less desirable"
The Webster definition could probably be worded better but it's pretty clear WilyCoder has it right. This is a case of Sony offering something desirable, then thwarting that expectation.
While it's common to describe this as a price switch, it can easily apply to a feature switch.
I would not cling to that view too strongly - there's some circumstantial evidence that genes can be transfered between unrelated species. Don't ask me to explain it - it's not understood as yet. But as an example you could Google, some GMO genes are being found in plant and insect species and it looks like the result of an unknown transfer process. It may be that mutations are not entirely random, but can be based on exposure (such as diet).
I agree with YOU.. you can't take away an advertised feature.
You can not give the user a false choice... either consent to remove THIS feature (OtherOS), or else not doing so is a choice to disable PSN and new game titles.
Orga buys into that argument that this is a "choice" -- which is obtuse (by disingenuous choice on his part, or not, does not matter).
When this reaches class-action status, you can bet that loads of PS3 users will sign on, even if they weren't running OtherOS.
The sad thing is, this exploit isn't even usable for piracy. Some Sony suit out in Japan completely over-reacted to this. I really like the PS3 and it's the FIRST console I've bought since the Super Nintendo (mostly I run purchased games for the PC, although I routinely apply no-cd cracks because I *hate* swapping discs).
I can see why Songbird wants to get away from Linux support.. sound architecture on Linux is continually evolving... which is surprising because that's been the state of Linux audio for about 15 years. Every other Linux distro release features a completely new audio backend (admittedly, with benefits) but this breaks audio support in a lot of applications. That was one of the final straws for me on Fedora (now I use Ubuntu which suffers the same problem, but hasn't created as much work for me to have to fix things... a unified repository for desktop contrib modules is something Fedora hasn't learned yet).
I tried Songbird, and it's OK but it wasn't unique enough to sway me from Amarok.
By the way, for the Windows and GNOME users listening.../do not/ skip trying out Amarok simply because it depends on KDE libraries -- you'll be missing out. Amarok is by far my favorite Linux desktop application (and it's been my favorite for years), and I am quite attached to GNOME desktop also. Amarok does a lot more for organizing your song library compared to Songbird or RhythmBox. Not everyone else would care, but for me the #1 Amarok feature is the MySQL backend. This can't be understated - once you've FIXED all the bad MP3 tags in your collection, the advanced query manager is pretty cool at building playlists. Amarok provides a nice normalized song database in MySQL, and you can tap into that with your own custom modules or shell scripts. Finding duplicate songs is much easier.
The only downside to Amarok I guess would be if you're really attached to other programs, or use programs that only do "one thing" (play, tag, etc).
By using an account to spout your useless arrogant and wrong point of view, you actually make your spam EASIER to block. Thanks for that; you're now marked Enemy and hidden from my browsing.
>>There is a difference between not supporting it, and forbidding it.
>Then don't download the update and keep running Linux.
Are you a lobbyist? You are choosing to be intellectually dishonest -- putting that charitably -- because you are pretending not to understand that this course would instead REMOVE the ability to play BluRay movies or games (if not now, then with the next printing or release of new games and movies).
OtherOS is not moving into some "unsupported" status, it is being BANNED. Removed. Gone. Did you read the article? I have my PS3 box and documentation in storage, and it CLEARLY lists OtherOS and Linux as a feature.
Now they remove that feature.
Apparently you don't have a problem with false advertising? That's fine, your choice, but please don't spin the facts into something else.
How about if you brought your car into the dealer for unrelated service, and they removed the cruise control feature? To be perfectly consistent with your previous statement, you would have to claim you do not really mind. I never use my cruise control either, but it's still a feature of something I *own*.
Funny... you're quoting "I play Smash Bros. but want to switch to PC gaming. What platform fighting game should I try? (SFIV != platform.)" yet when I push PARENT on your post, I don't see that parent post. That's made all the more suspicious by the fact that the 2 sites you just promoted are both owned by the same person and hosted at the same ISP.
So either the post you replied to did not exist in which case this is spam, or somehow that parent post can't be located by Slashdot.
$ host openlierox.net openlierox.net has address 77.93.211.205 openlierox.net mail is handled by 5 p.banan.cz. openlierox.net mail is handled by 10 backup.p.banan.cz. $ host openlierox.net openlierox.net has address 77.93.211.205 openlierox.net mail is handled by 10 backup.p.banan.cz. openlierox.net mail is handled by 5 p.banan.cz.
With all the trash and e-junk we produce - much of it contaminating groundwater or floating in the middle of the Pacific - I commend ANYONE for buying used games, books, or CDs. If the library doesn't have it, I'll look for it on half.com or ebay for $5 less if it's in good condition. Assuming everything is there and "complete" of course.. and in this case, that's not true exactly.
I blame GameStop for not publishing this problem, but ultimately this is all due to a deliberate design decision by the publishing house. Those publishers doing this mean to cause inconvenience to their user base.
There's a lesson to be learned here... for Facebook and for the controller of the Obama twitter account.
The lesson LOST is all the clueless posters saying "this is like breaking down a bank vault door" and other nonsense which demonstrates a lack of understanding of "virtual". These are the same people who equate borrowing a friend's CD with armed robbery of a the artist's bank. It's no use correcting these people when they're knowingly being obtuse as a "talking point".
I walked by your door, and it turns out you hung a PHOTOGRAPH of a lock and there was no security. That's like leaving a shoebox of money on the sidewalk with a note "please do not take or open".
Your metaphor alleges direct physical access and brute force. Think before you post.
Slashdot Mirror
Taken from the Playstation.com forums (nice work!):
----------------
CREDIT goes to Xrobx who posted these in another thread and i wanted to make sure that everyone sees them...
Sony Computer Entertainment Inc.:
"In addition to playing games, watching movies, listening to music, and viewing photos, you can use the PS3 system to run the Linux operating system. By installing the Linux operating system, you can use the PS3 system not only as an entry-level personal computer with hundreds of familiar applications for home and office use, but also as a complete development environment for the Cell Broadband Engine (Cell/B.E.)."
http://www.playstation.com/ps3-openplatform/index.html
(http://74.125.113.132/search?q=cache:byasL-PxEiMJ:www.playstation.com/ps3-openplatform/index.html+http://www.playstation.com/ps3-openplatform/index.html&cd=1&hl=en&ct=cln
k&gl=us&client=safari) - google's cached page of the above hyperlink from March 30th 2010 which does not say anything about FW 3.21 removing Other OS. I've saved the page in case it goes offline, copy http address into browser as link probably won't work. Or, just search google and get the cached page. - kiyyto.
Phil Harrison, February 2007,
President of Sony Computer Entertainment Worldwide Studios 2005-2008:
"One of the most powerful things about the PS3 is the 'Install Other OS' option."
http://kotaku.com/235049/20-questions-with-phil-harrison-at-dice
Sony Computer Entertainment Inc., 2006-2009:
"The Linux Distributor's Starter Kit provides information, binary and source codes to Linux Distribution developers who wants to make their distro support PS3."
http://www.kernel.org/pub/linux
Izumi Kawanishi, Sony, May 2006:
"Because we have plans for having Linux on board [the PS3], we also recognize Linux programming activities... Other than game studios tied to official developer licenses, we'd like to see various individuals participate in content creation for the PS3."
http://www.gamasutra.com/php-bin/news_index.php?story=9290
Geoffrey Levand, August 2009,
Principal Software Engineer at Sony Corporation:
"Please be assured that SCE is committed to continue the support for previously sold models that have the "Install Other OS" feature and that this feature will not be disabled in future firmware releases."
mailing list to PS3 customers using Linux
Phil Harrison, May 2006,
President of Sony Computer Entertainment Worldwide Studios 2005-2008:
"The Playstation 3 is a computer. We do not need the PC."
http://www.spiegel.de/netzwelt/web/0,1518,418642,00.html
SONY
Make.Believe... you didn't see that
Sony was OK wirh homebrew... but only when the PS3 platform was young and vulnerable. Remember how the platform launched for $600-$700 and a lot of people thought it would fail, possibly bankrupting Sony in the process?
This is how they thank us.
This was my only console purchase since the Super Nintendo. I've always been a PC gamer, going way back to 64K Atari XL computers. I know others will say it and not mean it, but if Sony does not fix this I will *never* buy any Sony product (of any kind) again. It's been 2 decades anyways since Sony home theater products were associated with the word "quality".
>But you can't sue Sony over it AFAIK, since you have no contract with them directly.
yes you do: the update server which removed the OtherOS feature.
It's no different than buying a car from a "dealer".. it's still the manufacturer's problem.
>OTOH these supporters cost them real money.
Sony ADVERTISES a feature. I buy a product BECAUSE of that feature. This is a transaction.
Then Sony time-bombs or removes that feature.
I have had something taken away from ME, and you have the balls to suggest this cost Sony?
On what planet sir do you spend most of your time?
Now, let's proceed with your outrageous suggestion that mega corporations have a right to shut down customers who are less profitable.
Suggesting that "OtherOS costs Sony real money" is no less applicable than saying "Blu-Ray users cost Sony real money".. should Sony disable PS3 users who play movies but DON'T play games?
Are you SERIOUS??
I use OtherOS. I have Linux on my laptop, but it's nice to demo things on the TV and not have to hook up the laptop.
Actually, why the hell should I have to justify using something I already paid for?
This merely unshackles video from the prison of proprietary Flash Video format, and converts the video into a real standard. Hooray for that.
This does not bring "Flash" to the iPad. This does not even bring Flash Mobile Profile to the iPad.
This is not a way to get around Apple's ban on a Flash interpreter on the system.
The headline is *awful* and completely incorrect.
Please... let's NOT confuse "Flash encoded video" with Flash itself.
Doing so only HELPS Adobe and Flash, because it furthers the misconception that Flash made web video "possible" (or even "better").
Things were much better when Quicktime was the web standard (presuming we're not comparing yesterday's codecs to todays of course).
Video is meant to be processed natively and with hardware support.
This is just a Flash video web transcoder... which is in itself a good thing, but it would be nice if the editors here actually *edited* corrections when needed.
Way to not be objective.. "falling DVD sales due to piracy".
Really - is that alleged link reported as a fact now? Even on Slashdot?
I thought DVD sales were plummeting because everyone was using Netflix, or buying (or waiting for) the Blu-Ray edition of things... or waiting for the second printing of the Blu-Ray (because the first one ships without "extras" or a bad transfer, just so they can sell you the same BR movie twice).
Or maybe DVD sales are plummeting because we're in the midst of a recession that is so bad that even the well-off and job holding public find themselves cutting unnecessary expenses...
The studios know this, of course, but want the media to continue parroting their "piracy" claims, so they can ram through their undemocratic treaties...
Oh come on, the PS3 is pretty good at what it does. It has an appliance feel and just "works". Sit down at a friend's PS3 and it works much like your own.
PCs haven't connected well to TV's until a few years ago (and that assumes you upgraded to a digital TV.. not everyone has). PC's tend to be noisy.
>The whole point of the removal was to thwart Gehot's efforts on the PS3 hack.
That's the reason Sony provided, but Sony's response is still not valid because:
1) They're taking away something people paid for
2) There's no exploit.
My take on this is that Sony WANTED to remove Linux and needed an excuse. They removed OtherOS from the slim, but Geohot believes the hardware support is still there... I trust his insight on this.
The PS3 OS has evolved to the point where it's a pretty damn good media center, playing just about every video format under the sun. The PS3 did not launch like that, and they knew that Linux support would be attractive to the community and tech geeks, so this was a way to make Microsoft look less open. Sony doesn't need OtherOS because it now is outselling the XBox 360 (and as for the installed base... lets just say that the XB360 install base is just a LITTLE inflated due to users replacing their console 3 times...)
Most likely case is Sony had a change of executives sometime ago and decided they wanted to "fully control the user experience". Here was their excuse to make it retroactive... AND they can arguably deflect some of the anger at GeoHot. You know Sony wants to say it is his fault, even if their claim is not technically sound.
This is one class action lawsuit I look forward to signing on to.
Of course, if the US consumer protection laws had any real teeth, there would not be any need to depend on lawyers (who end up claiming most of the compensation for themselves).
I think YOU need to learn that Wikipedia is fallible, and that you should learn to not tell other people to learn from it.
AND I QUOTE:
http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/bait%20switch
"2- : the ploy of offering a person something desirable to gain favor (as political support) then thwarting expectations with something less desirable"
The Webster definition could probably be worded better but it's pretty clear WilyCoder has it right. This is a case of Sony offering something desirable, then thwarting that expectation.
While it's common to describe this as a price switch, it can easily apply to a feature switch.
>The Earth is already covered in efficient origami solar panels, its just that regular people call them plants.
That's only half of it.. plants ALSO track the sun so they have both benefits...
>Genes don't transfer from bacteria to mammals.
I would not cling to that view too strongly - there's some circumstantial evidence that genes can be transfered between unrelated species. Don't ask me to explain it - it's not understood as yet. But as an example you could Google, some GMO genes are being found in plant and insect species and it looks like the result of an unknown transfer process. It may be that mutations are not entirely random, but can be based on exposure (such as diet).
I agree with YOU.. you can't take away an advertised feature.
You can not give the user a false choice... either consent to remove THIS feature (OtherOS), or else not doing so is a choice to disable PSN and new game titles.
Orga buys into that argument that this is a "choice" -- which is obtuse (by disingenuous choice on his part, or not, does not matter).
When this reaches class-action status, you can bet that loads of PS3 users will sign on, even if they weren't running OtherOS.
The sad thing is, this exploit isn't even usable for piracy. Some Sony suit out in Japan completely over-reacted to this. I really like the PS3 and it's the FIRST console I've bought since the Super Nintendo (mostly I run purchased games for the PC, although I routinely apply no-cd cracks because I *hate* swapping discs).
I can see why Songbird wants to get away from Linux support.. sound architecture on Linux is continually evolving... which is surprising because that's been the state of Linux audio for about 15 years. Every other Linux distro release features a completely new audio backend (admittedly, with benefits) but this breaks audio support in a lot of applications. That was one of the final straws for me on Fedora (now I use Ubuntu which suffers the same problem, but hasn't created as much work for me to have to fix things... a unified repository for desktop contrib modules is something Fedora hasn't learned yet).
I tried Songbird, and it's OK but it wasn't unique enough to sway me from Amarok.
By the way, for the Windows and GNOME users listening... /do not/ skip trying out Amarok simply because it depends on KDE libraries -- you'll be missing out. Amarok is by far my favorite Linux desktop application (and it's been my favorite for years), and I am quite attached to GNOME desktop also. Amarok does a lot more for organizing your song library compared to Songbird or RhythmBox. Not everyone else would care, but for me the #1 Amarok feature is the MySQL backend. This can't be understated - once you've FIXED all the bad MP3 tags in your collection, the advanced query manager is pretty cool at building playlists. Amarok provides a nice normalized song database in MySQL, and you can tap into that with your own custom modules or shell scripts. Finding duplicate songs is much easier.
The only downside to Amarok I guess would be if you're really attached to other programs, or use programs that only do "one thing" (play, tag, etc).
By using an account to spout your useless arrogant and wrong point of view, you actually make your spam EASIER to block. Thanks for that; you're now marked Enemy and hidden from my browsing.
>>There is a difference between not supporting it, and forbidding it.
>Then don't download the update and keep running Linux.
Are you a lobbyist?
You are choosing to be intellectually dishonest -- putting that charitably -- because you are pretending not to understand that this course would instead REMOVE the ability to play BluRay movies or games (if not now, then with the next printing or release of new games and movies).
OtherOS is not moving into some "unsupported" status, it is being BANNED. Removed. Gone. Did you read the article?
I have my PS3 box and documentation in storage, and it CLEARLY lists OtherOS and Linux as a feature.
Now they remove that feature.
Apparently you don't have a problem with false advertising? That's fine, your choice, but please don't spin the facts into something else.
How about if you brought your car into the dealer for unrelated service, and they removed the cruise control feature?
To be perfectly consistent with your previous statement, you would have to claim you do not really mind.
I never use my cruise control either, but it's still a feature of something I *own*.
>And as a bonus, the US taxpayers get to pay for it instead of Toyota.
Except that's not true in any sense.
Funny... you're quoting "I play Smash Bros. but want to switch to PC gaming. What platform fighting game should I try? (SFIV != platform.)" yet when I push PARENT on your post, I don't see that parent post. That's made all the more suspicious by the fact that the 2 sites you just promoted are both owned by the same person and hosted at the same ISP.
So either the post you replied to did not exist in which case this is spam, or somehow that parent post can't be located by Slashdot.
$ host openlierox.net
openlierox.net has address 77.93.211.205
openlierox.net mail is handled by 5 p.banan.cz.
openlierox.net mail is handled by 10 backup.p.banan.cz.
$ host openlierox.net
openlierox.net has address 77.93.211.205
openlierox.net mail is handled by 10 backup.p.banan.cz.
openlierox.net mail is handled by 5 p.banan.cz.
With all the trash and e-junk we produce - much of it contaminating groundwater or floating in the middle of the Pacific - I commend ANYONE for buying used games, books, or CDs.
If the library doesn't have it, I'll look for it on half.com or ebay for $5 less if it's in good condition. Assuming everything is there and "complete" of course.. and in this case, that's not true exactly.
I blame GameStop for not publishing this problem, but ultimately this is all due to a deliberate design decision by the publishing house. Those publishers doing this mean to cause inconvenience to their user base.
Glenn Beck makes a visit to Slashdot?
Exactly.
There's a lesson to be learned here... for Facebook and for the controller of the Obama twitter account.
The lesson LOST is all the clueless posters saying "this is like breaking down a bank vault door" and other nonsense which demonstrates a lack of understanding of "virtual". These are the same people who equate borrowing a friend's CD with armed robbery of a the artist's bank. It's no use correcting these people when they're knowingly being obtuse as a "talking point".
WHAT lock?
I walked by your door, and it turns out you hung a PHOTOGRAPH of a lock and there was no security.
That's like leaving a shoebox of money on the sidewalk with a note "please do not take or open".
Your metaphor alleges direct physical access and brute force. Think before you post.
Yep, I misread this. My line reading mind wandered up to the "WINDOWS" in the subject of that post.
Sorry for being an ass.
WHAT?
So what you're really saying is, you want Chinese Communists to possess WMDS... _and_ you're against Operation China Freedom?