You must be some new kind of bigot! You're bigoted against rampant platformism!
Seriously though it's never going to end. It's not just an argument or a debate to these people who can't see the merits of both systems. It's a holy war.
That's news to me. Not that I'm calling you a liar, I'm not. I just had no idea. The entire concept of a $50K car or paying $700 a month for anything I'm not living in is beyond my comprehension.
"-1, Troll" is a fucking crime. Do mod points arrive and in the process suck your sense of humor out your ass? God I hope I'm not this stoic when I'm modding posts.
I laughed my ass off through this entire post. It's funny. Someone mod this thing funny ASAP. It's just close enough to the mark while being just a hair over the top.
Best post on this entire thread IMO. "the Slashbot" did it right.
So you have an iPod along with several computers capable of running iTunes. So you're talking now about DRM that's "almost invisible" right?
That's what we're arguing about? You can take your music with you in your iPod but your other player can't do it? You can listen to your music on only "some" of your computers and not all of them like you want to?
Think about how much better you have it then people only 10 years ago. They bought a CD (whether they wanted one song or all of them) and listened to it in their CD player. Some of them listened to it in their computer too and still others had a CD player in their car and a Discman they could walk around with. All the things you guys have and can do today and the focus is on little more than the handful of things you can't do.
And DeCSS does not compare to this. At least not in anything but a superficial manner. In DVD's there was the standard, in digital music today there are a number of standards. MP3 (labels aren't touching it), WMA (what you're going to get at the rate things are going, can't wait to see the long list of complaints when everyone selling tunes online is using this), and ACC for instance.
Now if the labels decide that iTunes has been compromised (I understand how stupid that sounds, bear with me and think of who we're talking about) and throw up their hands what camp do you think they're going to land in? What format are your next downloaded tunes going to be in? How much fun are those restrictions going to be to work around?
You go man, fight that power! Take it to "the man"! while you're fighting it.
While you're at it tell me again how you're only able to buy these songs through iTunes Music Store? I'm lost on that part because I had this stupid idea that you could still just go buy a CD and make yourself some DRM free mp3's from it.
And if you don't want to buy an iPod AND don't have a computer capable of running iTunes then I submit to you that the DRM is completely invisible since you ain't got none of those songs in your posession anyway (unless you downloaded them or copied them from someone else to spite "the man").
If the iTunes music store goes under then it would probably be wise to have made some CD's out of them IMO. Of course if it goes under it will probably have something to do with a bunch of want to be activist bastards pissing of the labels enough to make them back off of the prospect of digital music. In that case I'll have a pretty good idea who to blame won't I?
Hey man, if you bought the song and understood that one of the terms of that purchase was that you specifically not touch that "glorified wrapper" but did it anyway then I'm sorry but I think you're in the wrong and whatever Apple slams you to the turf with is (to borrow the term) "fair play".
I had a consumer response once. I was (like so many of the people in here were and still are) very unhappy with the state of the music business and CD's in particular. I downloaded piles of free music from Napster and then later Kazaa. I said up and down that I wasn't stealing anything, this was WAR. I swore that when the music industry would let me buy songs by the track (not album) and for a reasonable amount of money with a (in my opinion) minimal amount of DRM that I could live with then I would stop stealing their shit.
iTunes did what I asked for. I in turn started buying my music there and (with no small amount of regret) I blew away my mp3's. Ok, whatever I owned on CD I still have as an mp3 but I ditched the downloaded stuff and started replacing it with paid for songs.
The mattress tag is not a particularly good analogy. The tag is completely ok to remove if you purchased the mattress. It's not to be removed by the people selling the mattress.
And I don't believe you should not listen to music. Like I said you can (and should, I encourage you to) listen to whatever music you want. It's not about what you're listening to though. It's about how you buy it. If taking the "glorified wrapper" off of the file is terribly important to you then I submit (again) that iTunes may not be for you.
The labels (who I despise despite what you may think from my posts up till now) aren't going anywhere (at least not anytime soon) and someone is always going to own "Led Zepplin IV" or "Sgt Pepper" and that's done. Too late to pry that from their fingers.
I really believe that one day music isn't going to be controlled by money grubbing suits who screw us coming and going but the stuff in the past is owned. Most of the stuff being made now is owned. They're going to protect what they own and if we want to listen to it we're going to have to peacefully coexist with them.
Putting Apple in a corner between us and them (and that's how I've seen anyone monkeying with iTunes since the day it appeared) is a bad plan though. Succeed in breaking it and the next version of iTunes you get will lock your ass down so tight you won't be able to whistle the song without someone wanting to "authorize" your lips.
I'm just saying there's a time to fight the power man and there's a time to count up what you've got and go home relatively content.
Well, again like I said to the idiot who was kind enough to label his reply to my post "idiot" so he'd be easier to spot I don't think iTunes is for you.
I understand you don't want to have to do that stuff. I understand that you want to do things your way. I understand that you don't want to have to install iTunes because it's something less than efficient.
The great news is that you don't have to install iTunes and you can buy a CD from the store that will play in anyones computer you want to stick it in. You can also rip your CD to mp3's and then drag a hard disk full of those around making you free to carry it around to everyones computer you want to visit.
It's not like iTunes membership is mandatory.
I just wanted to play my songs whereever and whenever I wanted to back in the day too. I had a cassette player and bought my music on cassettes. Sometimes I'd get in a car that only had an AM/FM stereo though and my cassette wouldn't play there. Other times the car would only have an 8-track player and so my cassette was useless there too. Every format is going to have limitations of some sort. Buy some LP's and see how easy it is to enjoy your music while jogging for instance.
They aren't treating you like a pirate delus. They're treating the people who made Fair Play like they would treat anyone who decided to "alter the bargain".
Then don't buy them from the iTunes music store maybe? If you want to listen to your digital music on your Linux/Solaris/BSD/BeOS/DOS/Amiga/TRS-80/Etc computers then what you're looking for isn't available from iTunes.
More important than that there's no reason in the world why it should be. Apple has no interest in your needs as far as this wide range of listening options is concerned. They can cover you on a Mac, on Windows, on an iPod if you wish, and on any CD player you happen to own if you want to go to the trouble of burning the songs to a CD.
Outside of that they're not in that business. In those areas it's as convienient as it gets.
I've got tons of non-Apple software and hardware. I'm not an Apple "fan boi" who's sitting up on a pulpit trying to defend their every action. I'm just another guy out there using what they are selling (music-wise) and trying to figure out why this is an issue. They sell you music. They include the bare minimum DRM that the record labels (who own this stuff whether we like it/agree with it or not) require. They tell you what you can and can't do with it right up front. They came up with an answer. A compromise that anyone willing to compromise can easily live with on an issue that's very much a pain in everyones ass.
So what's the first thing people do as soon as they can? They start to try and figure a way to screw it up. The compromise isn't good enough for them. They want more options, they want more "rights", they want literally the keys to the fucking kingdom and they aren't going to settle for anything less. And when Apple slaps someone down for messing with their well done compromise then out come the whiners complaining that Apple is whipping out the evil on innocent souls just trying to listen to their music on their Linux/Solaris/BeOS/DOS/Amiga/TRS-80/Etc computer.
Now it seems pretty clear to me that the labels aren't interested in doing that and they're willing to go to the trouble of taking kids and grandmothers to court over it regardless of the negative press it generates.
I've not been "brainwashed" into thinking that the world is divided into the two camps you cite. Hardly.
Who sounds more brainwashed to you? The people who can tell the difference between degrees of winning and losing ("This DRM" is not as invasive as "That DRM" and "No DRM" is obviously a pipe dream with regards to our future) and people who can apparently only see a "DRM" or "No DRM" world? If there are "shades" of people ranging from happy proprietary DRM users all the way down to thieves and you can accept that clearly then how come you can't look at DRM and accept that there are varying "shades" of DRM that range from draconian to none. How come you can't accept that a compromise here is inevitable when it so obviously is?
You're going to get it whether you want it or not if you want to listen to music coming from the major labels and well known artists catalogs. Sure you can download independant music without it. You can listen to whatever you want and download from these other services all day long. There's a lot of good music there too no doubt about that. If you want the music that's being sold through iTunes though (and more often than not isn't being sold anywhere without some form of DRM) then it's coming with DRM.
Every single person complaining about Apple doing this is irrelevant to the whole concept of iTunes. They're either flat out thieves who aren't going to be happy with anything that anyone on the face of the earth comes up with unless it gives them the "keys to the kingdom" with no questions asked or they're hair splitting posers who'll bitch about it on principle alone until the sun burns out.
The rest of us are buying our music and enjoying it and the almost invisible DRM that has to be there. End of story
I was thinking about the Pink Eye episode of South Park with the Worcestershire Sauce zombies.
Hotline Voice: The regular sauce, the first thing you need to do is make sure that you do not just go out and start decapitating zombies left and right. Do you understand? Do not start decapitating zombies left and right!
Kyle: Uh, ok. Then what?
Hotline Voice: All you have to do is kill the original zombie. The one that started the whole mess. Once you kill the original zombie, all the others zombies will turn back to normal.
Kyle: Original zombie? Well, how the hell do we know who the original zombie is?!?
I don't think it's as dire as that. It's more like they can ask and you can safely give a yea or nay answer but elaborating on this is an exceptionally bad idea. Where I work this is the standard practice and we're county level government where it seems like every third item in the policy manual has something to do with preventing a lawsuit or keeping the county from looking like it's doing something it's not supposed to.
Well, yeah you speak for me. I know beyond a shadow of a doubt that this is going to suck but I'm still going. It's like a train wreck in slow motion at this point. I can't not look.
After two of these prequels I think it's like Steve Buscemi's character in Armaggedon said. "It's time to embrace the horror people". Enjoy it for what it is even if all you can do to get pleasure out of it is to make fun of it.
Yeah, ditto that. I read a leaked script for IR (Ishtar Reloaded) and it looked cool. If they can get The Rock and Vin Diesel to do the original Hoffman and Beatty parts this is going to be summer blockbuster can't miss stuff.
Hey, if that's what you have to do to get yourself (and thus "the cause") noticed then fire away.
Just be sure you fire first.
Re:Available on MS platforms?
on
Usenet Audio
·
· Score: 1
Windows users are very familiar with Usenet, the porn parts at least. I know this because I am also familiar with it and I've been seeing "Stop with this Yenc shit" and "How do you open Yenc files with Outlook Express" posts for what? Years now? If it isn't years then it sure feels like it.
...is that computers are getting small enough for that goatse guy to do his own personal "case mod" and it's only a matter of time before we have the link.
I think that he isn't necessarily taking the view that it's alright now. He's just mostly pointing out that right or wrong it is pretty much the way the world works.
In 50 years or so if China is the king of the hill then no it won't be alright for them to bitchslap the US but that won't make any difference. If the US is far enough down the food chain then the US is going to have to take their bitchslapping and STFU about it not unlike other nations do today when they get their Uncle Sam style bitchslap. Just like the US took it when England was giving them out back in the day.
It's just the breaks. Sooner or later everyone gets their day in the barrel.
It was a very long time ago for me but didn't this actually go all the way down to 4th or 5th world?
I seem to recall at the bottom (whether it went to 4 or 5) you had nations that were considered complete basket cases. Hopeless causes so to speak that would never in anyones wildest imagination be able to stand on their own two feet and be dependent on the aid of other nations for as long as they existed.
My first thought on reading this was one of indignation. I'M an American and I think you're being too hard on average Americans with this statement.
Then I thought about it for a moment and of course you're dead right. Like I said I am an American. I have to interract with these mutton heads on a daily basis.
I want the truth to be different, I really do. It just isn't.
Slashdot Mirror
You must be some new kind of bigot! You're bigoted against rampant platformism!
Seriously though it's never going to end. It's not just an argument or a debate to these people who can't see the merits of both systems. It's a holy war.
Jeep makes a vehicle that costs $50,000?
That's news to me. Not that I'm calling you a liar, I'm not. I just had no idea. The entire concept of a $50K car or paying $700 a month for anything I'm not living in is beyond my comprehension.
Wow.
"-1, Troll" is a fucking crime. Do mod points arrive and in the process suck your sense of humor out your ass? God I hope I'm not this stoic when I'm modding posts.
I laughed my ass off through this entire post. It's funny. Someone mod this thing funny ASAP. It's just close enough to the mark while being just a hair over the top.
Best post on this entire thread IMO. "the Slashbot" did it right.
Does this mean "It's on"?
Oh wait, nevermind. I forgot the rules on that.
If Jobs "iServes" Real then Real's "been iServed"
If Real "Serve One's" him back THEN "it's on".
So you have an iPod along with several computers capable of running iTunes. So you're talking now about DRM that's "almost invisible" right?
That's what we're arguing about? You can take your music with you in your iPod but your other player can't do it? You can listen to your music on only "some" of your computers and not all of them like you want to?
Think about how much better you have it then people only 10 years ago. They bought a CD (whether they wanted one song or all of them) and listened to it in their CD player. Some of them listened to it in their computer too and still others had a CD player in their car and a Discman they could walk around with. All the things you guys have and can do today and the focus is on little more than the handful of things you can't do.
And DeCSS does not compare to this. At least not in anything but a superficial manner. In DVD's there was the standard, in digital music today there are a number of standards. MP3 (labels aren't touching it), WMA (what you're going to get at the rate things are going, can't wait to see the long list of complaints when everyone selling tunes online is using this), and ACC for instance.
Now if the labels decide that iTunes has been compromised (I understand how stupid that sounds, bear with me and think of who we're talking about) and throw up their hands what camp do you think they're going to land in? What format are your next downloaded tunes going to be in? How much fun are those restrictions going to be to work around?
Uh, ok. So what.
You go man, fight that power! Take it to "the man"! while you're fighting it.
While you're at it tell me again how you're only able to buy these songs through iTunes Music Store? I'm lost on that part because I had this stupid idea that you could still just go buy a CD and make yourself some DRM free mp3's from it.
And if you don't want to buy an iPod AND don't have a computer capable of running iTunes then I submit to you that the DRM is completely invisible since you ain't got none of those songs in your posession anyway (unless you downloaded them or copied them from someone else to spite "the man").
If the iTunes music store goes under then it would probably be wise to have made some CD's out of them IMO. Of course if it goes under it will probably have something to do with a bunch of want to be activist bastards pissing of the labels enough to make them back off of the prospect of digital music. In that case I'll have a pretty good idea who to blame won't I?
Hey man, if you bought the song and understood that one of the terms of that purchase was that you specifically not touch that "glorified wrapper" but did it anyway then I'm sorry but I think you're in the wrong and whatever Apple slams you to the turf with is (to borrow the term) "fair play".
I had a consumer response once. I was (like so many of the people in here were and still are) very unhappy with the state of the music business and CD's in particular. I downloaded piles of free music from Napster and then later Kazaa. I said up and down that I wasn't stealing anything, this was WAR. I swore that when the music industry would let me buy songs by the track (not album) and for a reasonable amount of money with a (in my opinion) minimal amount of DRM that I could live with then I would stop stealing their shit.
iTunes did what I asked for. I in turn started buying my music there and (with no small amount of regret) I blew away my mp3's. Ok, whatever I owned on CD I still have as an mp3 but I ditched the downloaded stuff and started replacing it with paid for songs.
The mattress tag is not a particularly good analogy. The tag is completely ok to remove if you purchased the mattress. It's not to be removed by the people selling the mattress.
And I don't believe you should not listen to music. Like I said you can (and should, I encourage you to) listen to whatever music you want. It's not about what you're listening to though. It's about how you buy it. If taking the "glorified wrapper" off of the file is terribly important to you then I submit (again) that iTunes may not be for you.
The labels (who I despise despite what you may think from my posts up till now) aren't going anywhere (at least not anytime soon) and someone is always going to own "Led Zepplin IV" or "Sgt Pepper" and that's done. Too late to pry that from their fingers.
I really believe that one day music isn't going to be controlled by money grubbing suits who screw us coming and going but the stuff in the past is owned. Most of the stuff being made now is owned. They're going to protect what they own and if we want to listen to it we're going to have to peacefully coexist with them.
Putting Apple in a corner between us and them (and that's how I've seen anyone monkeying with iTunes since the day it appeared) is a bad plan though. Succeed in breaking it and the next version of iTunes you get will lock your ass down so tight you won't be able to whistle the song without someone wanting to "authorize" your lips.
I'm just saying there's a time to fight the power man and there's a time to count up what you've got and go home relatively content.
I'm relatively content.
Well, again like I said to the idiot who was kind enough to label his reply to my post "idiot" so he'd be easier to spot I don't think iTunes is for you.
I understand you don't want to have to do that stuff. I understand that you want to do things your way. I understand that you don't want to have to install iTunes because it's something less than efficient.
The great news is that you don't have to install iTunes and you can buy a CD from the store that will play in anyones computer you want to stick it in. You can also rip your CD to mp3's and then drag a hard disk full of those around making you free to carry it around to everyones computer you want to visit.
It's not like iTunes membership is mandatory.
I just wanted to play my songs whereever and whenever I wanted to back in the day too. I had a cassette player and bought my music on cassettes. Sometimes I'd get in a car that only had an AM/FM stereo though and my cassette wouldn't play there. Other times the car would only have an 8-track player and so my cassette was useless there too. Every format is going to have limitations of some sort. Buy some LP's and see how easy it is to enjoy your music while jogging for instance.
They aren't treating you like a pirate delus. They're treating the people who made Fair Play like they would treat anyone who decided to "alter the bargain".
Then don't buy them from the iTunes music store maybe? If you want to listen to your digital music on your Linux/Solaris/BSD/BeOS/DOS/Amiga/TRS-80/Etc computers then what you're looking for isn't available from iTunes.
More important than that there's no reason in the world why it should be. Apple has no interest in your needs as far as this wide range of listening options is concerned. They can cover you on a Mac, on Windows, on an iPod if you wish, and on any CD player you happen to own if you want to go to the trouble of burning the songs to a CD.
Outside of that they're not in that business. In those areas it's as convienient as it gets.
I've got tons of non-Apple software and hardware. I'm not an Apple "fan boi" who's sitting up on a pulpit trying to defend their every action. I'm just another guy out there using what they are selling (music-wise) and trying to figure out why this is an issue. They sell you music. They include the bare minimum DRM that the record labels (who own this stuff whether we like it/agree with it or not) require. They tell you what you can and can't do with it right up front. They came up with an answer. A compromise that anyone willing to compromise can easily live with on an issue that's very much a pain in everyones ass.
So what's the first thing people do as soon as they can? They start to try and figure a way to screw it up. The compromise isn't good enough for them. They want more options, they want more "rights", they want literally the keys to the fucking kingdom and they aren't going to settle for anything less. And when Apple slaps someone down for messing with their well done compromise then out come the whiners complaining that Apple is whipping out the evil on innocent souls just trying to listen to their music on their Linux/Solaris/BeOS/DOS/Amiga/TRS-80/Etc computer.
Now it seems pretty clear to me that the labels aren't interested in doing that and they're willing to go to the trouble of taking kids and grandmothers to court over it regardless of the negative press it generates.
I've not been "brainwashed" into thinking that the world is divided into the two camps you cite. Hardly.
Who sounds more brainwashed to you? The people who can tell the difference between degrees of winning and losing ("This DRM" is not as invasive as "That DRM" and "No DRM" is obviously a pipe dream with regards to our future) and people who can apparently only see a "DRM" or "No DRM" world? If there are "shades" of people ranging from happy proprietary DRM users all the way down to thieves and you can accept that clearly then how come you can't look at DRM and accept that there are varying "shades" of DRM that range from draconian to none. How come you can't accept that a compromise here is inevitable when it so obviously is?
You're going to get it whether you want it or not if you want to listen to music coming from the major labels and well known artists catalogs. Sure you can download independant music without it. You can listen to whatever you want and download from these other services all day long. There's a lot of good music there too no doubt about that. If you want the music that's being sold through iTunes though (and more often than not isn't being sold anywhere without some form of DRM) then it's coming with DRM.
Absolutely dead on fucking correct.
Every single person complaining about Apple doing this is irrelevant to the whole concept of iTunes. They're either flat out thieves who aren't going to be happy with anything that anyone on the face of the earth comes up with unless it gives them the "keys to the kingdom" with no questions asked or they're hair splitting posers who'll bitch about it on principle alone until the sun burns out.
The rest of us are buying our music and enjoying it and the almost invisible DRM that has to be there. End of story
I was thinking about the Pink Eye episode of South Park with the Worcestershire Sauce zombies.
Hotline Voice: The regular sauce, the first thing you need to do is make sure that you do not just go out and start decapitating zombies left and right. Do you understand? Do not start decapitating zombies left and right!
Kyle: Uh, ok. Then what?
Hotline Voice: All you have to do is kill the original zombie. The one that started the whole mess. Once you kill the original zombie, all the others zombies will turn back to normal.
Kyle: Original zombie? Well, how the hell do we know who the original zombie is?!?
I want a brown and white pony, can you add me to "the list"?
Do you think they have any brown and white ponies? I hope they do. I'd much rather have a pony than a second coming of Christ.
Wonder if I should add "Me too" to this?
Creepy how this whole thing gives off a Netscape/AOL retro-browser war kind of vibe isn't it?
I don't think it's as dire as that. It's more like they can ask and you can safely give a yea or nay answer but elaborating on this is an exceptionally bad idea. Where I work this is the standard practice and we're county level government where it seems like every third item in the policy manual has something to do with preventing a lawsuit or keeping the county from looking like it's doing something it's not supposed to.
No details, just a simple yes or no.
Well, yeah you speak for me. I know beyond a shadow of a doubt that this is going to suck but I'm still going. It's like a train wreck in slow motion at this point. I can't not look.
After two of these prequels I think it's like Steve Buscemi's character in Armaggedon said. "It's time to embrace the horror people". Enjoy it for what it is even if all you can do to get pleasure out of it is to make fun of it.
Yeah, ditto that. I read a leaked script for IR (Ishtar Reloaded) and it looked cool. If they can get The Rock and Vin Diesel to do the original Hoffman and Beatty parts this is going to be summer blockbuster can't miss stuff.
He starts work on the Special Edition of "Willow" of course. At the same time he'll be getting his "Howard the Duck" prequel material together.
See those movies sucked badly, The original Star Wars films weren't the greatest movies ever made but they were good.
The frightening thing is that Lucas cannot tell the difference between the two.
Maybe it's just me but I don't have any problem ignoring the similarities.
That's no doubt because one appeared in a movie that was very good and the other appeared in AOTC.
Hey, if that's what you have to do to get yourself (and thus "the cause") noticed then fire away.
Just be sure you fire first.
Windows users are very familiar with Usenet, the porn parts at least. I know this because I am also familiar with it and I've been seeing "Stop with this Yenc shit" and "How do you open Yenc files with Outlook Express" posts for what? Years now? If it isn't years then it sure feels like it.
Good old DOD date. Memories of my enlistment flooding back now just seeing it.
...is that computers are getting small enough for that goatse guy to do his own personal "case mod" and it's only a matter of time before we have the link.
I think that he isn't necessarily taking the view that it's alright now. He's just mostly pointing out that right or wrong it is pretty much the way the world works.
In 50 years or so if China is the king of the hill then no it won't be alright for them to bitchslap the US but that won't make any difference. If the US is far enough down the food chain then the US is going to have to take their bitchslapping and STFU about it not unlike other nations do today when they get their Uncle Sam style bitchslap. Just like the US took it when England was giving them out back in the day.
It's just the breaks. Sooner or later everyone gets their day in the barrel.
It was a very long time ago for me but didn't this actually go all the way down to 4th or 5th world?
I seem to recall at the bottom (whether it went to 4 or 5) you had nations that were considered complete basket cases. Hopeless causes so to speak that would never in anyones wildest imagination be able to stand on their own two feet and be dependent on the aid of other nations for as long as they existed.
My first thought on reading this was one of indignation. I'M an American and I think you're being too hard on average Americans with this statement.
Then I thought about it for a moment and of course you're dead right. Like I said I am an American. I have to interract with these mutton heads on a daily basis.
I want the truth to be different, I really do. It just isn't.