First off, yesterday we have the day when all the Mac fanatics go overboard. Hey, I'm one of them and I went overboard. Enthusiasm goes right over the top and reality slowly slips away inside the Reality Distortion Field of the great and mighty Jobs. Yesterday was for the Mac users
Today we get the backlash and debunking. I honestly don't know if it's completely true or not but I'm inclined to believe it. I've grown accustomed to the idea that benchmarks and anything else like them (side by side tests of any kind) can't be trusted so this seems to fit.
The only thing that really makes any difference to me personally is how much faster the G5 is than the G4 it's replacing. The rest of it I just don't care about.
I use a Mac for a lot of reasons and flat out speed isn't one of them. It has to be fast enough obviously but it doesn't have to be the fastest and never has had to be the fastest.
I use a Mac because I have found it to be very stable and a pleasure to work and game on. If the benchmarks were rigged then it's a shame. They didn't need to do it and it wasn't worth the risk of negative press IMO.
Well put. How many people do you know who spend time on their computer in the Wintel world that are still using the mouse their box came with? At least those people who bought a factory job and not a clone they put together themselves?
I can't think of a single one I know. The mouse is one of the first things that gets pitched back into the box and replaced with something better. So why the hell is it an issue on the Mac?
Get over it, call Logitech, Microsoft, McAnally, or whoever and get on with life people.
You know what you have when you're sporting market share like Windows has? You've got a big target on your back. In other words the guy in first place has the largest number of people breathing up his ass.
Microsoft knows this and I don't think they are nearly as confident as you seem to be about it. Right now they've got a couple of people coming for "their"market share. One of them is making better products than most of what their software runs on and the other is making software that can mostly be had for free. Both of them are getting closer every month that goes by. It's only a matter of time.
Speaking as a Mac user who started out and spent better than ten years on Windows before switching my desktop machine to a Mac and as an administrator who takes care of Windows and Linux boxen at work I'm saying it makes no difference to me if Linux passes Macintosh in market share on the desktop.
The enemy of my enemy is my friend. The percentage points Linux makes in desktop marketshare won't be coming from Mac users. They'll be coming from Windows users.
That's the "it's all good" about this situation. There's a ton of Windows market share out there to eat up so there's enough to grow a healthy Mac and Linux following. The two will play together far better than Windows ever played with anyone and the computing world will be the better for it receeding.
Macs, Penguins, doesn't matter. Better computing for everyone if this bastard (Windows) goes down.
Yeah ok, I can see how someone moderated this as flamebait (though I don't agree - wonder if saying that's going to get me modded -1 Asshole or something in this crowd) but I thought it deserved to be modded funny.
I take a different approach to this than you (though you're right on not as many people being that worked up over it) and I think that they do intentionally do this on days that Apple is making big announcements.
I think it shows how paranoid they are and how much credence they give Apple despite the vast difference in market share.
You won't catch me doing that. I stole a good 20% (possibly more) of the music on my hard drive. I stole it because I didn't want to pay for it at the price it was available (that being the obvious price of the entire CD when in fact I did not want the entire CD).
It was possible to get the songs I wanted in the manner I wanted them and niether price (The "free" part) nor morality (The stealing part) played any role in my decision.
Since the Apple Music store showed up I have not stolen a single track on Kazaa. In fact I don't think I've even fired it up. I've bought 17 tracks from them and probably will buy +/- 5 or so tracks a month from here on out (or until I reach a point where they don't have anything left I want).
But make no mistake, I saw what I wanted out there on the P2P and bickity-bam! That shit's mine.
True and this same pack of assholes don't seem to have any qualms about letting you buy a CD single in the store for more than 99 cents. Fuck them, they will get what they deserve in the near future as this model, which we the consumers have imposed on them, becomes the norm.
Add two more to your running total of people who aren't playing WC3 because of the bnetd thing. I refused to buy it (and won't be buying anymore of the Diablo or Starcraft titles either for that matter) and I'm an approaching 40 year old who's been buying their titles (and enjoying them) since they first appeared.
After talking to my stepson about it he didn't buy either. I didn't talk him out of it though. He was already gearing up for NWN and pissed about the bnetd all on his own. I think he was more irritated by it than I was.
Anyway counting the two of us that makes 8. Anyone else?
Best explanation of this I've read so far. I think you're dead on correct.
If this was an intentional Apple leak you would have seen something more like a leaked picture showing what the new case was going to look like. That would have leaked the news that there were going to be new PowerMacs (which most people had already come to the conclusion we were going to see anyway) and serve to whet the appetite but kept the meat and potatos for Steve to reveal at the big show.
Instead we got all the juicy details and now all that's left to see is what the machines are going to look like. This isn't the way Apple would have done it at all.
I totally see your point and agree that there are CAD programs for the Mac. That's obvious. What's missing is either AutoDesk or Microstation and until at least one of those two show up running in OSX then it's not where it needs to be.
If I had Autodesk LDD available for OSX I could put all of my engineers on it and would in a heartbeat. Same thing for Architectural Desktop and my architects (I support an engineering department for county level government. About 30 Archs and close to 40 Engineers) but it's not there and we aren't about to try and hand these people something other that what they've been using to draw with since pretty much the day they started drawing on a computer here.
But I don't think all are and I do not personally think that as many of us adhere to your straight line behaviour (which I'm not criticizing you for by the way).
I think you've got more people in this world fudging on their software than most people believe. Maybe not nearly as many as slip in that extra 5-10 mph while driving but a vast number nevertheless.
For some reason this idea kind of reminds me of the thing they've got running in Bubblegum Crisis (2040 version) that picks up cargo and passengers and takes it into orbit. Probably not what I would call an identical proposal but the mental picture is close.
And as Apple has made clear they aren't interested in splitting hairs like you and I are doing.
They made the board and they are only going let people who buy those boards from them sell them for the purpose that was stated when they bought it. To replace a part in an Apple computer.
Yeah, it sure was. It was advertised as a genuine Apple motherboard and honestly, out of all the parts inside a Mac which one do you think makes it a Mac?
It was advertised as being able to run OSX and what other kind of computer out there can run OSX other than a real Mac?
It was advertised as Apple hardware in a generic case for a fraction of the price of a new Mac.
So now order some, put it in cans, and advertise it on the web as real Coke Classic but in an unmarked 12-packs for 1/3rd the price of real Coke Classic.
I don't think that competition with Coke is what "these guys" have in mind.
Certainly they will. Should you find someone willing to sell you enough parts (at a low enough price) to open a dealership stocked with BMW's that are merely missing the BMW badge and cost a third of what one made by BMW costs then the exact same thing will happen.
BMW will find out where you got enough parts to do this, shut the flow of parts to you off, and probably send the legal boys to sue you back to the stone age. I am surprised that the Core people haven't heard from the Apple legal team yet. It's probably because there's no need. Apple can kill them without going through the trouble and overkill isn't needed.
If Core finds a way to keep it up then they can expect the heat to be turned up in round two.
Re:Clones would kill the PPC platform!
on
iBox Episode 2
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· Score: 2, Insightful
It is literally a case of Apples and Oranges here. Mac clones at the time that x86 clones came about would have put Apple in a position to pull a Microsoft and become the giant OS company leveraging it to whatever end it chose.
Mac clones now only serve to take market share from Apple. That's easy enough and obvious enough to understand I would think.
Re:Another 3dfx, etc, etc.
on
iBox Episode 2
·
· Score: 2, Insightful
Excellent point and in this case the one company it worked for is standing right in the middle of the road waiting to smack the living crap out of anyone else who tries to be successful doing the same thing.
Apple is saying you aren't going to be using their spare parts to undersell them. Nothing more. How are they restricting anyones rights in this case? By not letting them build and sell what are in essence Apple computers? Boo-Fucking-Hoo. Next you'll say that BMW is stifling competition because they won't let someone put together 5 series cars out of spare parts and sell them at half the price of a new BMW made 5.
Now if Apple was trying to jump on someone for using a generic board that Apple did not make which somehow, for some strange reason was able to boot OSX with no problems I'd say you have a point but every company in the friggin universe controls it's spare parts supply chain to some extent.
And stifling competition? How so? Apple makes a computer. You've got a multitude of computers out there made by Dell, HP, Gateway, and probably hundreds if not thousands of other companies all waiting for you to purchase and Apple isn't going to say word one if you buy one of them.
Well, This policy doesn't seem so far out of line if you compare it to just about any other corporation in the known universe.
Go see if you can find someone to sell you some Coca Cola syrup so you can sell Coke and undercut their prices. Or try to find someone willing to sell you authentic Chevrolet parts for a Corvette that they have assembled themselves and are advertising at 1/3 the price of a Corvette's sticker price.
Now if you find someone willing to do either of those things whip out your stop watch and see how long it is before lawyers from Coca Cola or Chevrolet show up to put a stop to it.
Ok so your downloading something and upon completion of your download the computer you are using bursts into a crackling pile of charred parts. You know someone just fried your computer and you know what you were downloading.
Find the copyright holder and exact vengance as you see fit. It beats having some anonymous fuck key your car in a parking lot. At least in this case you know exactly which asshole to take out.
This is why something like this will never work and Hatch is an idiot. Watching this escalate from add protection to defeat protection followed by destroy violating computer to bomb building of assholes who destroyed your computer will be pretty screwed up.
And yeah, most people wouldn't retaliate in a violent fashion but if they roll the dice enough times they are going to piss off someone who will respond with his own version of "shock and awe".
Personally I don't think it will come to this and hope it doesn't.
Slashdot Mirror
First off, yesterday we have the day when all the Mac fanatics go overboard. Hey, I'm one of them and I went overboard. Enthusiasm goes right over the top and reality slowly slips away inside the Reality Distortion Field of the great and mighty Jobs. Yesterday was for the Mac users
Today we get the backlash and debunking. I honestly don't know if it's completely true or not but I'm inclined to believe it. I've grown accustomed to the idea that benchmarks and anything else like them (side by side tests of any kind) can't be trusted so this seems to fit.
The only thing that really makes any difference to me personally is how much faster the G5 is than the G4 it's replacing. The rest of it I just don't care about.
I use a Mac for a lot of reasons and flat out speed isn't one of them. It has to be fast enough obviously but it doesn't have to be the fastest and never has had to be the fastest.
I use a Mac because I have found it to be very stable and a pleasure to work and game on. If the benchmarks were rigged then it's a shame. They didn't need to do it and it wasn't worth the risk of negative press IMO.
Well put. How many people do you know who spend time on their computer in the Wintel world that are still using the mouse their box came with? At least those people who bought a factory job and not a clone they put together themselves?
I can't think of a single one I know. The mouse is one of the first things that gets pitched back into the box and replaced with something better. So why the hell is it an issue on the Mac?
Get over it, call Logitech, Microsoft, McAnally, or whoever and get on with life people.
You know what you have when you're sporting market share like Windows has? You've got a big target on your back. In other words the guy in first place has the largest number of people breathing up his ass.
Microsoft knows this and I don't think they are nearly as confident as you seem to be about it. Right now they've got a couple of people coming for "their"market share. One of them is making better products than most of what their software runs on and the other is making software that can mostly be had for free. Both of them are getting closer every month that goes by. It's only a matter of time.
Speaking as a Mac user who started out and spent better than ten years on Windows before switching my desktop machine to a Mac and as an administrator who takes care of Windows and Linux boxen at work I'm saying it makes no difference to me if Linux passes Macintosh in market share on the desktop.
The enemy of my enemy is my friend. The percentage points Linux makes in desktop marketshare won't be coming from Mac users. They'll be coming from Windows users.
That's the "it's all good" about this situation. There's a ton of Windows market share out there to eat up so there's enough to grow a healthy Mac and Linux following. The two will play together far better than Windows ever played with anyone and the computing world will be the better for it receeding.
Macs, Penguins, doesn't matter. Better computing for everyone if this bastard (Windows) goes down.
Figures.
Yeah ok, I can see how someone moderated this as flamebait (though I don't agree - wonder if saying that's going to get me modded -1 Asshole or something in this crowd) but I thought it deserved to be modded funny.
Odd, it's now Score:2, Funny. That was quick.
I take a different approach to this than you (though you're right on not as many people being that worked up over it) and I think that they do intentionally do this on days that Apple is making big announcements.
I think it shows how paranoid they are and how much credence they give Apple despite the vast difference in market share.
Sure it is. Hey, I said I didn't buy it, I never said I hadn't played it. That game sucked monkey balls and you just dig the eye candy.
You won't catch me doing that. I stole a good 20% (possibly more) of the music on my hard drive. I stole it because I didn't want to pay for it at the price it was available (that being the obvious price of the entire CD when in fact I did not want the entire CD).
It was possible to get the songs I wanted in the manner I wanted them and niether price (The "free" part) nor morality (The stealing part) played any role in my decision.
Since the Apple Music store showed up I have not stolen a single track on Kazaa. In fact I don't think I've even fired it up. I've bought 17 tracks from them and probably will buy +/- 5 or so tracks a month from here on out (or until I reach a point where they don't have anything left I want).
But make no mistake, I saw what I wanted out there on the P2P and bickity-bam! That shit's mine.
True and this same pack of assholes don't seem to have any qualms about letting you buy a CD single in the store for more than 99 cents. Fuck them, they will get what they deserve in the near future as this model, which we the consumers have imposed on them, becomes the norm.
Add two more to your running total of people who aren't playing WC3 because of the bnetd thing. I refused to buy it (and won't be buying anymore of the Diablo or Starcraft titles either for that matter) and I'm an approaching 40 year old who's been buying their titles (and enjoying them) since they first appeared.
After talking to my stepson about it he didn't buy either. I didn't talk him out of it though. He was already gearing up for NWN and pissed about the bnetd all on his own. I think he was more irritated by it than I was.
Anyway counting the two of us that makes 8. Anyone else?
Best explanation of this I've read so far. I think you're dead on correct.
If this was an intentional Apple leak you would have seen something more like a leaked picture showing what the new case was going to look like. That would have leaked the news that there were going to be new PowerMacs (which most people had already come to the conclusion we were going to see anyway) and serve to whet the appetite but kept the meat and potatos for Steve to reveal at the big show.
Instead we got all the juicy details and now all that's left to see is what the machines are going to look like. This isn't the way Apple would have done it at all.
Mononoke
I totally see your point and agree that there are CAD programs for the Mac. That's obvious. What's missing is either AutoDesk or Microstation and until at least one of those two show up running in OSX then it's not where it needs to be.
If I had Autodesk LDD available for OSX I could put all of my engineers on it and would in a heartbeat. Same thing for Architectural Desktop and my architects (I support an engineering department for county level government. About 30 Archs and close to 40 Engineers) but it's not there and we aren't about to try and hand these people something other that what they've been using to draw with since pretty much the day they started drawing on a computer here.
But I don't think all are and I do not personally think that as many of us adhere to your straight line behaviour (which I'm not criticizing you for by the way).
I think you've got more people in this world fudging on their software than most people believe. Maybe not nearly as many as slip in that extra 5-10 mph while driving but a vast number nevertheless.
For some reason this idea kind of reminds me of the thing they've got running in Bubblegum Crisis (2040 version) that picks up cargo and passengers and takes it into orbit. Probably not what I would call an identical proposal but the mental picture is close.
And as Apple has made clear they aren't interested in splitting hairs like you and I are doing.
They made the board and they are only going let people who buy those boards from them sell them for the purpose that was stated when they bought it. To replace a part in an Apple computer.
Yeah, it sure was. It was advertised as a genuine Apple motherboard and honestly, out of all the parts inside a Mac which one do you think makes it a Mac?
It was advertised as being able to run OSX and what other kind of computer out there can run OSX other than a real Mac?
It was advertised as Apple hardware in a generic case for a fraction of the price of a new Mac.
So now order some, put it in cans, and advertise it on the web as real Coke Classic but in an unmarked 12-packs for 1/3rd the price of real Coke Classic.
I don't think that competition with Coke is what "these guys" have in mind.
Certainly they will. Should you find someone willing to sell you enough parts (at a low enough price) to open a dealership stocked with BMW's that are merely missing the BMW badge and cost a third of what one made by BMW costs then the exact same thing will happen.
BMW will find out where you got enough parts to do this, shut the flow of parts to you off, and probably send the legal boys to sue you back to the stone age. I am surprised that the Core people haven't heard from the Apple legal team yet. It's probably because there's no need. Apple can kill them without going through the trouble and overkill isn't needed.
If Core finds a way to keep it up then they can expect the heat to be turned up in round two.
It is literally a case of Apples and Oranges here. Mac clones at the time that x86 clones came about would have put Apple in a position to pull a Microsoft and become the giant OS company leveraging it to whatever end it chose.
Mac clones now only serve to take market share from Apple. That's easy enough and obvious enough to understand I would think.
Excellent point and in this case the one company it worked for is standing right in the middle of the road waiting to smack the living crap out of anyone else who tries to be successful doing the same thing.
Oh please.
Apple is saying you aren't going to be using their spare parts to undersell them. Nothing more. How are they restricting anyones rights in this case? By not letting them build and sell what are in essence Apple computers? Boo-Fucking-Hoo. Next you'll say that BMW is stifling competition because they won't let someone put together 5 series cars out of spare parts and sell them at half the price of a new BMW made 5.
Now if Apple was trying to jump on someone for using a generic board that Apple did not make which somehow, for some strange reason was able to boot OSX with no problems I'd say you have a point but every company in the friggin universe controls it's spare parts supply chain to some extent.
And stifling competition? How so? Apple makes a computer. You've got a multitude of computers out there made by Dell, HP, Gateway, and probably hundreds if not thousands of other companies all waiting for you to purchase and Apple isn't going to say word one if you buy one of them.
Well, This policy doesn't seem so far out of line if you compare it to just about any other corporation in the known universe.
Go see if you can find someone to sell you some Coca Cola syrup so you can sell Coke and undercut their prices. Or try to find someone willing to sell you authentic Chevrolet parts for a Corvette that they have assembled themselves and are advertising at 1/3 the price of a Corvette's sticker price.
Now if you find someone willing to do either of those things whip out your stop watch and see how long it is before lawyers from Coca Cola or Chevrolet show up to put a stop to it.
It's always business. Never personal.
Ok so your downloading something and upon completion of your download the computer you are using bursts into a crackling pile of charred parts. You know someone just fried your computer and you know what you were downloading.
Find the copyright holder and exact vengance as you see fit. It beats having some anonymous fuck key your car in a parking lot. At least in this case you know exactly which asshole to take out.
This is why something like this will never work and Hatch is an idiot. Watching this escalate from add protection to defeat protection followed by destroy violating computer to bomb building of assholes who destroyed your computer will be pretty screwed up.
And yeah, most people wouldn't retaliate in a violent fashion but if they roll the dice enough times they are going to piss off someone who will respond with his own version of "shock and awe".
Personally I don't think it will come to this and hope it doesn't.