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Senator Orrin Hatch a Pirate?
Stigmata669 writes "Remember a few days ago when Senator Orrin Hatch decided that software piracy was punishable by destruction of computers? Well a bored and unemployed Sys. Admin in Houston smelled a rat when he was rooting through Hatch's website source. As it turns out Sen. Hatch is a common software pirate himself."
I live in utah, and i'm glad to say, i don't think orrin hatch will recieve another term.
"Martha Stewart can lick my Scrotum......do i have a scrotum?" -- Sharon Osbourne
a butt pirate.
Ready... aim... Fire! Slashdot him!
The article title is just alittle bit senstational... The senator's web designer didn't register *free* software (you have to pay for commerical use only). He was in violation of the software license. Obviously nobody on slashdot has ever violated a software license (if not please direct me to all that shareware you registered in under 30 days).
It hardly damages his stance against downloading music.
I'd say the only thing really damaging there is that he's from Utah.
Oh well, keep fighting the good fight.
-Rob
That's why software should be free?
I have been pwned because my
Anyone want to say something intelligent instead of making stupid comments that only ruin it for others?
This article is a great catch for you folks!
It's nice to find something that puts his
foot in his mouth!
Again, thank you for catching that article!
MCP
Cleara
You're right. Hatch isn't the pirate, his web designer is, but it doesn't make it any less funny and ironic. :P
This guys knows how to advertise himself. Imagine getting your name out there in the mass median and the fact you are unemployed.
-----
One is born into aristocracy, but mediocrity can only be achieved through hard work.
it's a lot easier and software-licence free to do it using css. All you need to do is hide the html part of each menu, and when the menu title is moused-over, the css, and something like two lines of JavaScript, will display the menu. No muss, no fuss.
Quid festinatio swallonis est aetherfuga inonusti?
Africus aut Europaeus?
Don't call him a "pirate," unless he was proven guilty of abordage! Otherwise we just sound silly, claiming that Dimitry was not a pirate, but Orrin Hatch suddenly is. Please don't be so inconsistent. Pirate is a pirate. A person guilty of copyright infringement is a person guilty of copyright infringement. Please don't use incorrect meanings of words, at least on Slashdot.
Karma: Positive (probably because of superiour intellect)
and everyone knows that the senator is the one who made his site! who cares if his hired webmaster uses unliscenced JS? it's not the senator, i'll tell you that - he probably doesn't even know about it.
Mwahahaha!
I register all my shareware, or uninstall it before the stated evaluation period ends. If you do otherwise, shame.
I do not install unlicensed software in production environments. My personal computer is different, but I still conform to the license requirements or remove the software.
You're talking to sysadmins here -- you'll find relatively few pirates in the bunch. You might rethink your accusations in light of your audience.
http://drteknikal.blogspot.com/
If someone actually destroyed the server hosting his website, he'd be the first person lining up to put them in jail. Come on, Hatch, of all the things to take a ridiculous stand on; copyrights? Is $18,000/yr really that important to you?
I'd like to see how Hatch's constituents react when they find out he's the one who authored the law that let the music company destroy their computer because little Johnny wanted to hear the latest trendy music hit.
And yes, I understand that no such bill would ever make it anywhere, but for a high-ranking Senator to even suggest such an idea is absolutely unforgiveable. There's no excuse for violating imaginary property rights, but there is an excuse for willfully destroying the physical property of someone? I don't know whether he's really serious about such an idea, but assuming for a moment that there's a bit of sanity left in his noggin, I think he needs to choose his words more wisely. The fact is, this simply cannot work out well for him, and will only provide fuel for his critics and those who would like to take his seat.
Quite frankly, the man has no concept of what he's talking about, and needs to sit down, shut up, and listen to what others have to say for a change.
-- "Government is the great fiction through which everybody endeavors to live at the expense of everybody else."
nt
MABASPLOOM!
http://www.senate.gov/~hatch/index.cfm?Fuseaction= Students.Utah
And click on the MyUtahSearch.com graphic...
III.IIVIVIXIIVIVIIIVVIIIIXVIIIXIIIIIIIIVIIIIVVIII
The funniest thing is that I saw this on The Rule of Reason hours before I saw it here. (Scroll down four stories and see for yourself.)
Seems like nobody likes Hatch anymore. Yay!
Go to Sen. Hatch's web site and click on the "MyUtahSearch.com" graphic on the right hand side of the page. It redirects you to a [not safe for work] pr0n site.
[Thanks to The Turd Report for pointing this out on K5.]
k.
"In spite of everything, I still believe that people are really good at heart." - Anne Frank
..because no one would be afraid of the dread pirate Orin!
Bel, the mostly sane.. "Of course I can't see anything! I'm standing on the shoulders of idiots." -- Me
I was really hoping someone would challenge Hatch to allow them to audit his personal and office computers for infringements. I'd even let the BSA get involved if they had the guts.
To ensure perfect aim, shoot first and call whatever you hit the target
30 minutes or so since it was posted and its already unaccessible for me.
I think this episode just verified that observation.
The scary thing is that because none of us are perfect, anyone with an axe to grind can mill through the most innant details of our personal lives and bring it to the public attention, that of our wife, boss, friends, co-workers, etc.., highly magnifying what they think we did wrong.
This could be quite a way for one to harass another.
Like, now Senator Hatch himself has gone onto public record as advocating destruction of other's private property.. what if instead of some government official talking about destruction of other's property, it was somebody else talking about it? Where are we going to draw the line between a "patriot" and a "terrorist"?
"Prove all things; hold fast that which is good." [KJV: I Thessalonians 5:21]
People have different definitions of right and wrong. But all definitions of wrong action have one element in common: it's something somebody else does.
...here's the URI to his website. Enjoy :D
http://www.senate.gov/~hatch/
So...let me see if I have this straight...slashdot is running an article on an elected official doing something illegal?
We're gonna need more space if this is the start of a trend.
A LOT more space.
Mod me down with all of your hatred and your journey towards the dark side will be complete!
piÂrate
n.
1.
1. One who robs at sea or plunders the land from the sea without commission from a sovereign nation.
2. A ship used for this purpose.
2. One who preys on others; a plunderer.
3. One who makes use of or reproduces the work of another without authorization.
4. One that operates an unlicensed, illegal television or radio station.
What's your point?
Looks like the Rotten Egg that Orrin Hatched may be all over his face.
uR iGn0ranc3, Their Power
Oh my god, what a rare and shocking revelation.
While it is quite funny is see our politibots when they get caught in their hyrpocrisy, I hope I wasn't the only one who wasn't surprised to read this.
Not only is the AI developed by Sen. Hath's team self-aware (notice the use of the pronoun "i"; fake AI might use "I" but this is clearly the real thing ignoring grammatical conventions as if they meant nothing) but it is also capable of irony (i.e. "duh")
Watch out, the Matrix may have you yet!
This article is like.. well.. like drinking a coke, (or pepsi) after a long session of coding. Refreshing, and very satisfactory, and giddy in a way of what one has accopmlished. The satisfaction of seeing him caught at his own game is awesome. Uh oh, underwear check!
OMG OMG OMG WTF OMG WTF BBQ STFU RTFM, OMFG OMG OMG OMG ROFL LMAO OMG WTF STFU ROFLMAO
bo ahead, try and hack me. all the microsoft backdoors will be of no use. all my base are belong to me!!!!
My problem? I was perfectly gruntled, until some numbnuts came by and dissed me.
#1- Make java script menu
#2- Sell for $900
#3- Profit!
The hardest part of the whole thing was probably starting up google to search for java script examples.
Hmm. I just have a problem with someone charging $900 for JavaScript code that is easily viewable by almost any visitor to a site. It's common practice to steal bits of HTML and JavaScript, so I'm surprised people would get so annoyed when they try to sell code for use on the Web..
(Avoiding the filter is an art. Art rules.)
YOU ARE SO FIRED!
(had to do it)
Laws are for people with no friends.
Hah. Domain hijacking at its finest.
It's the glass house idea. I know it isn't piracy per se, but it's a close enough cousin.
Before a person in office criticizes an action, they should make pretty darn sure that they don't even have the appearance of being tainted by the act or anything close. Delegate the role. But check.
The bar is lower for nonpublic figures. Our words don't weigh as much in the public eye.
Now he'll have to be the brunt of embarrassing questions like "why should your computer not be destroyed?" It just weakens his stance.
Esteem isn't a zero sum game
Surely the Senator didn't create the page himself? He might not even know what the Javascript is for. Sure, if he knew that the webmaster was doing something wrong, and he didn't stop it, then he would be at fault, but there's no proof of that here.
Of course, my opinion above is from a common sense perspective, rather than a legal one.
Dropbox drops it like it's hot.
is 'hail to the theif'
I've heard this phrase a lot lately!
Creationists are a lot like zombies. Slow, but powerful and numerous. And they all want to eat our brains.
but is it really possible to remotely fry a motherboard or break my hard drive? And if it is possible, how come this hasn't been written into some worm yet?
Thank you, you are very kind. After all of the insults I got here on Slashdot just because I am a woman, your complement was a very nice surprise indeed.
Karma: Positive (probably because of superiour intellect)
The surprise isn't how often we make bad choices; the surprise is how seldom they defeat us.
I just heard some sad news on talk radio - GIF patent US4,558,302 was found expired in its patent office filing cabinet this morning. There weren't any more details. I'm sure everyone in the internet community will miss it - even if you didn't enjoy the litigation, there's no denying its contribution to bandwidth conservation. Truly a compression icon.
... and slashdot readers act suprised?
whee!
Nominate him for DU's Top Ten Conservative Idiots! (Go to the bottom of the page for nominating instructions)
This is funny, but the sad thing is that it will in no way affect Hatch's platform nor media credibility.
I imagine that tommorow a sysadmin and a webdesigner will be out of a job. And that sucks in today's market.
I mean, really, you think an old senator put a website together by himself? WITH javascript!
When I read about Hatch's little idea, this is what I came up with as responses:
1. What ever happened to innocent until proven guilty?
2. What ever happened to getting a warrant?
3. What ever happened to a fair trial in front of a jury of peers?
4. What ever happened to the government running the police, instead of the corporations.
5. What ever happens when someone at a record label royally screws up and fries the hard drive of someone with legiminate copies of MP3's (say of my band or ripped legally from CD's I own)?
Hmmm... i think he *might* have some songs from my local "newly made" recording company on his computer. I MUST HACK HIS COMPUTER!!!! wouldent that be fun though? to see his computer just go... POW off the internet. show him a thing or two. If only we could harness the power of Black Hat Hackers around the world the RIAA and any related server would.. drop out of sight!
he should be made to walk the plank.
or in this case the butt plank.
If you mod me down the terrorists will have won
Arguably, it's a fact that the people writing the laws (or people with the holding the most money) don't have to follow them. This is seen time and time again - they are above the law.
Laws are there to maintain control on the "common-folk." What they don't seem to understand is, many people see through the facade and reject the double-standards and injustice placed upon them.
2c.
> Where are we going to draw the line between a
> "patriot" and a "terrorist"?
A patriot is a terrorist who's on our side; a terrorist is a patriot who's on their side
Got any more?
Ah but since this is software piracy the entire organization is responsible. As the head of his office Sen. Hatch is ultimately responsible for any piracy that goes on in his organization.
Anyway go here http://www.bsa.org/usa/report/ and report Orrin for piracy.
It is very cheap.. Just go ahead and reply with your full name, credit card number w/ date of expiry, and what you want your ad to say, and I'll get you all set up.
I was somewhat involved with Napster back in its heyday. I once visited their office, and was introduced to a new employee who came straight out of Orrin Hatch's office. He used to be an assistant of some sort to Hatch, and was clearly hired by Napster because he could serve as a lobbyist of sorts with some very direct Washington contacts. The funny thing is, as soon as they hired this guy, Hatch came out in strong support of Napster and defended them for a time.
I was amazed, but not surprised. That's not the sort of position one would have expected from the likes of Orrin Hatch, but clearly is ex-assistant was having significant influence on him in Napster's favor. How ironic, yet also unsurprising, that in the wake of Napster's demise, Hatch has pretty much gone 180 degrees from his previous stance.
To quote a friend... "I laughed so hard I had to cross my legs to keep from peeing on myself."
That is so sweeeeeeeet.
I'll stay anonymous though. -AC
Go to http://www.bsa.org/usa/report/ and report Orrin for piracy
Opportunities to fight oppression don't come up like this everyday. If this doesn't get picked up by the popular press, the word needs to be spread. Email the URL to anyone you think it might influnce. Print the story and show it to you mom or grandma.
This reminds me of all the adulterous legislators who impeached Clinton.
The Milonic DHTML Menu was totally free a little while ago.
For them to change the licensing terms retroactively ( "EVERY copy of our JavaScript menu needs to be licensed" - are they really insiting that older copies that were downloaded with it was advertised as free now be paid for and/or registered?) seems very shady to me.
But a quick look at the Google Cache will let you see the original, licence-violating version.
---
Jedimom.com, leon's getting larger.
StrategyTalk.com, PC Game Forums
...Professor....what is 'pirate booty'...?
w00t, that great, thanks guys
So when is someone going to upload an MP3/OGG of him speaking against "piracy" onto Kazaa or Gnutella? (ala Lars of Metallica)
This was linked to off of fark.com yesterday.
That mutha fscker's computer is TOAST!
Hatching up ways to save the tax-payer money huh? He's my kind of politician.
This whole idea is pure idiocy. First off, have you ever heard of that little thing called a trial? Last time I checked, you couldn't be punished unless you were given a lawyer, and a chance to defend yourself on trial, and all that nice constitutional stuff.
On top of that, think about the consequences in a place like a college dorm. Someone piss you off? How about having a great way to put them $2000 in the hole in the 5 minutes it takes to download 3 copyrighted songs- just wait for them to go to the bathroom...
And of course, there's the fact that pretty much every corporation has some unliscensed software on their computers. Wouldn't that be great? The minute this new program goes on line, America's economy collapses because half the corporate workstations in the country blow up.
Yeah, pure genious.
Having taken absolutist or extreme positions on an issue, you can't credibly defend yourself for things that most people would just shrug off.
Bill Bennet cannot credibly author a "Book of Virtues" in adult and children's editions, make $25,000 a speech daily, and then point out that most people gamble and private lives are nobody's business.
Rhonda Storms could not credibly call for the dismantling of Hillsborough Countie's Public Access stations for supposed IP abuses (after losing for years to overcome first amendment responses to her efforts to censor what she deemed offensive programming), requiring that all producers undertake IP sensitivity training, and then defend her unlicensed synchronized parody of the Beach Boys' tune "Help Me Rhonda" in an election commercial as a reasonable oversight.
Likewise, Orin Hatch cannot insist that a few infringements of a few tunes are evil enough to justify a government official's call for destruction of personal property without due process and simultaneously argue that he should be forgiven for not studying a licensing agreement.
Will AOL discs suffice?
Who's the owner of the site ? Hatch or the webmonkey ?
His name is all over the place, it is HIS website, so he should be held accountable of what's found on it. I remember hearing something like "ignorance is not a valid defense".
If I was going to put my name on something I did not write, I'd damn well make sure my legal team audits each and every bit of it to insure I wouldnt get myself in hot water over it.
This man is a self-proclaimed copyright professional. I guess he should have known better.
Marriage is considered capital punishment for the theft of a goat in some third world countries...
Please enjoy this online traval and resource guide to help you explore our great state.
Dont' be to hardon him..
Integrated application integration with synergistic synergized synergy
I called Boring Orrin's office to complain and here was the reply I got:
"Senator Hatch's website was created via a third party who was responsible for the problem. The problem has now been corrected."
Those aren't the exact words but they effectively expressed his staffer's opinion.
But what really got me was the fact that the staffer refused to provide Senator Hatch's take on the matter and really seemed quite nonchalant about the whole affair.
I mentioned that I felt that Senator Hatch bears ultimate responsiblity for what is on his website and that I felt like he should own up to it.
Or to, at the very minimum, help pay the litigation costs of the person whose copyrighted material was stolen so that they could sue the crap out of the "third party web designer".
Once again I basically got a shrug type reaction from the staffer.
Those people don't have a clue!
If you want to make a difference, call Hatch's office, complain, then call your Senator's office and request that they punish him. If it's long distance for you then it will be a few bucks for each call but it will be money well spent.
Caution: Contents under pressure
For the love of god mod this up. I thought he was joking, but it's true! It's true I tell you. http://www.myutahsearch.com/
if his is the only site there with this oversight. Hmmm, I wonder what Google knows ...
why doesn't the same standard apply to "sharing" music? I bet the musicians work hard too...
Senator Hatch is, overall, a great guy. The other congressmen from Utah (except for Jim Matheson, a moderate Democrat who managed to barely hold on to his House seat despite the careful gerrymandering of our terrible State Legislature) vote harder-than-hard-line Republican, often seemingly without any thought. Hatch has genuinely tried to investigate the issues and work towards solutions- even though the solutions he engineers get fairly widely booed in Utah since they may deviate from the Party Line. In just about all previous instances when I have disagreed with Sen. Hatch's views, I have nevertheless felt them to be well-reasoned and somewhat justified.
This time around constitutes an exception. Everybody makes stupid mistakes once in a while, and I hope Hatch manages to pull a course correction on this issue pretty soon.
But I don't think all are and I do not personally think that as many of us adhere to your straight line behaviour (which I'm not criticizing you for by the way).
I think you've got more people in this world fudging on their software than most people believe. Maybe not nearly as many as slip in that extra 5-10 mph while driving but a vast number nevertheless.
Appended to the end of comments you post. 120 chars.
Seems to me that a government web site is non-commercial.
ROCK THE VOTE!
0110100100100000011000010110110100100000011000100
First of all I was kind of surprised when I first heard about Sen. Hatch's initiative. I am not a big fan of his but very often he looked pretty reasonable to me. IIRC he suppports stem cell research. But going after "pirates" being pirate himself is bad.
That being said I am actually more concerned about independent software developers. And the ways how they can make money and enforce thier licenses. I am not independent developer myself. But I can imagine that doing all that above and actually writing a code could be quite a hassle. I started to think about after I read this this storry.
The thought that occurred to me is this. May be there is a niche for something that we would call (for the lack of a better term) a "software label". It is something like a SourceForge but with a bit muscule behind it. That is for independent software developer it would provide following functions:
1. Hosting a website for given software (that is in essence marketing and advetising).
2. Binaries (or even source code) repository.
3. Handling payments (especially electronic)
4. Legal representation.
Everything except item 4 can be set up on nickel and dime. And regarding lawyers. I hear that here (in the Sil. Valey) a lot of them lost jobs and gladly do lower pay or even pro bono work.
It can even act like an "agent" for a programmer. Just an example. My friend (well actually the guy I talk on IRC a lot) is a free-lancer. Year ago he got a contract to make them a site (linux+appache+php+mysql+lots of other shit). He made it (I was a beta-tester) company got it but now for some lame reason they refuse to pay. He might win but from what I see they are going to suck him dry first.
Point is you wrote a package. But for many reasons (especially now) starting your own company is not feasible yet. In this case it would be nice that there is someone who could handle the "overhead for you".
- Back off man. I am a scientist
Orrin Hatch is such a hypocrite and menace to consumer rights that they should revoke his license completely, just so that he has to scramble (and pay someone hopefully) to redo that aspect of his site. The fact that he constantly abuses his power to reduce consumer rights, while refusing to recuse himself from issues which he suffers a conflict of interest (his music deals, his direct personal profit from said music deals, and his part in legislation on music and consumer rights).
So, terminate his license to use the software because he's an enemy of consumer rights and technological freedom. By his own philosophy, copyright holders should have such powers and be able to arbitrarily enforce at will...
the dark side that lurks in every sysadmin ...
YOU SUCK BALLS!
This is similar to those horrid things that the RIAA is trying to produce, and they are clearly getting not too far, like their new "restricted" audio format, and a block switch for portable MP3 players.
It would be extremely difficult to place a hardware kill switch on commodity computers, as that would require going through all computer/motherboard manufacturers, and unless those without these "kill switches" are made illegal, then the manufacturers who comply are likely to be made extremely unpopular. Even if this scenario was to happen, what's preventing people from finding out what kind of packet that this thing uses, and then using this information to either block these "kill requests" or sending them to other people's computers?
In a software solution, that would be even more of a problem, as even in heavily restricted platforms like XP, the company behind it, Microsoft, still exercises only minimial control over the user's computer, and nothing's there to stop them from modifying parts of the OS to prevent it from recognizing the kill signal.
Protocols on the internet only work when they are open, and this particular protocol to "destroy" people's computers is quite closed. If this is to take place, it would be only a matter of time when malicious users could use it to destroy the computers of other people.
There are two kinds of people:
The government (kings) and the common people. Sen. Orrin's rules apply only to the common people and not to elite people like himself. There is a special kind of justice for govt. type. They can break any law they wish with impunity, bomb countries with little proof and a lot of lies.
In summary, nothing new happenin
How about Smoking Gun? Just an idea, for a case he will wipe that link out.
Less is more !
Does everyone remember all the congresscritters out on the steps singing God Bless America? That had an audience of over a billion but did they pay the royalties to the Boy & Girl Scouts? I bet they didn't even check out the copyright before they decided it was a good idea. But it means they all broke copyright law.
If anyone gets to talk to a Senator, this is a very good thing to bring up. According to standard copyright rates, they all owe more in royalties than most of them will ever see and some of these guys play with the national debt.
I'm visiting the US for a week, and have realised where the power here comes from: The Media.
CNN, MSNBC, FoxNews, ABC/Disney, and ALL of the others seem to be based on pure viceral knee-jerk reporting. If you want to see Sen. Hatch get in trouble, sic the reporters on him.
Seriously. The media is living on exploitation, either their own or others. Exploit them to the best of your abilities, and watch things explode.
"People who do stupid things with hazardous materials often die." -- Jim Davidson on alt.folklore.urban
Sen. Hatch is a public servant. He surrenders some of his personal privacy to the citizens he serves. I'm pretty sure there's legal precedent for this in the areas of libel/slander; it shouldn't be too hard to apply it in this case.
Moreover, reading page sources hardly constitutes an invasion of privacy. It's a public server on the internet; no attempts are required to circumvent any sort of access control.
Senator Hatch just put his foot in his mouth, took aim, and shot at it. The only problem is, we're the only people who will remember when he's up for reelection. And I'm not going to be able to do a whole hell of a lot about his Senate campaign from here in Indiana.
I wouldn't be surprised if Hatch has his fingers in the SCO pie.
Politicians better fix the economy and end the tech-visa programs before more bored and unemployed techies turn up more dirt on them.
You know what they say: An idle IT person will hack into the devil's workshop.
Table-ized A.I.
are you really the Don or are you merely falsely representing him because I believe D. E. Knuth still holds the patent on D. E. Knuth. False representation is ...
What kind of idea is that? Blowing up computers? He's joking...right? Its a violent and incredibly base thing to say. How do these people make it into Congress?
A deep unwavering belief is a sure sign you're missing something...
...then why doesn't someone hack into his computer and destroy his computer like he wants to do to so-called 'pirates'.
Ok just trollin'
I think 3 and 5 would be the right number.
MORTAR COMBAT!
All you "web designers" whining about copyright on your stupid javascript are probably stamping your foot and whinging you can't get $75/hour to do "WELCOME TO MY HOME PAGE!!!11" anymore. Better wages at mcdonalds now, monkey boys.
Hatch is on the Senate Judiciary committee
Hatch is strongly in favor of extending the length covered by copyright holders.
Obviously he doesn't thing copyright laws apply to him...
So, let me get this straight. Sen Hatch has illegal software on his website he might not know is there. His son is involved as a lawyer in a lawsuit on the side of SCO in SCO v. IBM where SCO claims Linux has stolen code. Sen. Hatch also wants to destroy computers of software pirates but pirates it himself. He also has links on his website to porno. And people say there is no way he will lose the next election.
Not to sound too much like a troll, but most of this stuff can be found on Drudge Report hours to days earlier.
Yep, that sure sounds like the kind of guy I want making decisions about IP and technology.
it's called the "captain of the ship" doctrine in legal terms. It dates back to english common law and the era where many were slave owners... a slave owner could be held liable for the actions of a slave that he owned.
It's what allows me to be sued if someone (including one of my nurses or another doctor treating their patient in the ER) does something inappropriate in my department. Even if it's not my patient, theoretically EVERY patient in the ER is my patient, since I'm the ranking doc in charge of the department.
It sucks, and it's vicarious liability, but it does happen (though some modern courts have started to rein this nonsense in)
Same thing with medicare fraud... if my billing company commits fraud (they bill in my name), guess who goes down? I do. The medicare and medicade regulations are extremely convoluted, and get changed very frequently... if my billing company doesn't keep track, and they bill wrong, they may get flagged as a potential fraud. The pressure to get successful prosecutions of fraudsters is VERY high, and agents go after doctors relentlessly... and the doctor takes the fall, even if someone else is doing their billing.
It's outrageous that you can be held to account for the actions of others, particularly if you don't understand their job, lack the expertise to oversee them, and don't directly control how they do business... but that's our legal system. It's not right, but it can and does happen.
So yes, I'd say if it's good enough for me, it's good enough for the good Senator Hatch.
Even if a man chops off your hand with a sword, you still have two nice, sharp bones to stick in his eyes.
In fairness to Mr. Bennett, it has been reported that he has never gone on record as declaring that gambling is immoral. Thus, strictly speaking he is not a hypocrite.
Nevertheless, he doesn't come off looking very good over this, that's for sure.
DFL
Never send a human to do a machine's job.
Lets just notify the BSA, and I'm sure they and Senator Hatch can amicably (massive audit) settle this "oversight".
- NOPIRACY
http://www.bsa.org/usa/report/report.php
1-888
Lets see how Mr. Hatch likes his computers destroyed.
I used to believe that the Bad Karma Vortex epicenter used to run through 1 Microsoft Way in Redmond, but with SCO and Hatch trying to out do each other I think its shifting down to Orem....
In tomorrow's Utah paper:
"Wanted: Immediate opening for a Webmaster who can create menus without using @#*! JavaScript or shareware."
Table-ized A.I.
I'd hardly call a government site "non-profit".
Government is not a private charity. I doubt most software writers mean that government gets off the hook paying them while corporations do. If violating the spirt a software license was written in gets someone off the hook, I guess small software writers will have to be more careful.
As far as "sensationalism" goes, you mean Hatch calling for people's computers being disabled without due process of law isn't "sensational".
The real issue here is hypocrisy, in government and even in posts. Take note of who is writing what. Some are allies, and some are enemies.
I think a webmaster just lost his job!
Well, I seem to recall they stopped this practice, since a judge somewhere determined that this was depriving the defendant of "due process."
So-- how could the use of computer-destroying technology be legally sanctioned? There is no due process. Sure, the technology could be used, but officially, the perpetrator would be subject to fines, legal damages, and/or jail time, just like any other virus-writing script-kiddie.
Orrin Hatch is really just advocating vigilanteism, which is an abandonment of the whole legal system. What's next? Should I start waving a pistol at everybody who cuts me off, or torching the car of that guy down the street who plays his stereo too loud?
Let's take it one step further. Let's have it so that we not only destroy the music pirate's computer, but we overload his power supply, cause a fire, and burn down his house, and hopefully all his neighbors' houses, too, since they probably were in on it as well...
They say the first thing to go is your penis. Well, it's either that or your brain. I forget which...
Senator Hatch is eating his own dogfood on this one. However, this is just the perfect his excuse for the GSA to purchase a super dooper nice system from Dell at an extreme overpriced rate for U.S. Senators. :-/
And your point is...?
If my daughter downloads songs on my machine, will Hatch NOT blow mine up?
It's his site; it's his responsibility.
"I might have made a tactical error in not going to a physician for 20 years." -- Warren Zevon
I'm a Republican of the pre-religious right wing school, and I'm going to donate as much dough as I can to Orin Hatches opposition. I encourage everyone to donate money to whoever runs against Orin Hatch. Look at it this way, Bush is going to win re-election in a landslide, and if we put a Dem into Hatch's slot, we restore some balance of power, get rid of a right winger so kooky that he sold out to hollywood, and maybe save the constitution.
This is my sig.
This time around constitutes an exception. Everybody makes stupid mistakes once in a while, and I hope Hatch manages to pull a course correction on this issue pretty soon.
No, this time does not constitute an exception. Orrin was also the sponsor of another misguided piece of legislation that maybe you've heard of, the DMCA.
Orrin has taken over 175K so far just this year from the TV/Movies/Music lobby
Orrin is one of the WORST congressmen this country has EVER had. Bought off like every other congressman but he apparently is not only paid off but stupid about the legislation that he introduces.
Now jensend, as a constituent I suggest that you get informed on these issues that your idiot congressman makes the rest of the country suffer for.
Dear Senator Hatch,
What is your opinion on the efficacy of using euthanasia to solve the current problem of overly zealous and senile senior senators from Utah.
Very Urgent. Please Reply,
Your Smoldering WebServer
-B
In Providence, its the only way to get out into traffic, by first pulling out into the mass median. Sometimes you see smokies parked there, looking for speeders.
They say the first thing to go is your penis. Well, it's either that or your brain. I forget which...
If Hatch had his way, how many innocent people would have their computers destroyed because their children, employees, friends, and neighbors decided to illegally download some MP3s onto their computer?
point out spelling or grammatical errors in other posts.
Inevitably, every time some one points one out they have one in their message.
You know, a couple of years ago I had the misfortune of travelling through Utah, and after that visit to this "Land of the Latter Day Morons and Nazi senators", I wonder why they picked Nevada as a testrange for nuclear weapons.
Anyways... since we're now in the "endtimes" of civilization I demand if this law passes and someone goofs and fries one of my machines... That I may enter any police department and order as many officers as required to accompany me to the responsible party where upon arrival they will forcibly restrain said party while I legally slam a metal bar into his or her face sending teeth, bone and flesh flying until he or she is dead.
You know, this may sound a little extreme to some of you and I really don't favor extreme remedies -- unless no moderate remedies can be found.
Ok Hatch has made a pretty out there comment, and he's something of a hypocrit, put that aside for a second.
Let's say that it was decided to use this countermesure to piracy. How would this be physically implemented? Would OEMs be instaling mini-bombs in our computers? I can tell you now that if a company can blow up a computer there will be someone else who will figure out how to a) prevent it and b) do it themselves. Imagine facing computer virus that actually _destroy_ you hardware.
This whole idea stinks of Hatch's lack of understanding of the technological world. It stinks of the entire senate's lack of understanding.
The fact of the matter is we need someone in congress (or more than one) that is on the same page we are with tech issues.
100% Crunchier
This is offtopic, but the issue with Clinton was his lying, under oath in a courtroom, about his adultery -- not the actual act of adultery. If he'd been truthful about it (instead of trying to find a way around the definition of the word 'is') there'd likely have been no movement to impeach.
Pot here. You are black! I repeat: You are black!
Reporter: "Senator, did you know you have Javascript on your webserver?"
Hatch: "Really? I'll talk to my web monkey. He said he scans it for viruses every day. Must be new..."
They say the first thing to go is your penis. Well, it's either that or your brain. I forget which...
Yeah, that's right. If its a signal comming into your computer over the Internet, there's nothing that says you can't block the port it comes into, or create a packet filtering system that searches for suspicious packets containing instructions to send massive voltages through your computer.
If you outlaw guns, only outlaws will have guns. The same thing can be said for this crap that Hatch is proposing. The people who are perpetuating the sharing MP3s, videos, videogames, and software will not "learn their lesson" as Hatch suggested, but quite a few innocent downloaders will, possibly at the expense of little over a thousand dollars.
This is not a problem that can be solved by people whom have little understanding of the way the Internet works.
Wait until lil' Billy hears about this... You never know, maybe he's a software pirate himself :)
Oh my... That's hilarious (I thought you were kidding).
I'll bet his LDS constituents would love to know that link is on his website.
Wonder when that domain was bought and pr0n-ified...
Even if a man chops off your hand with a sword, you still have two nice, sharp bones to stick in his eyes.
According to this software piracy information PDF made by the BSA in paragraph 4, the US Senate is liable for this unlicensed software:
"Many businesses, both large and small, face serious legal risks because
of software piracy. Under the law, a company can be held liable
for its employeesâ(TM) actions. If an employee is installing unauthorized
software copies on company computers or acquiring illegal software
through the Internet, the company can be sued for copyright
infringement. This is true even if the companyâ(TM)s management was
unaware of the employeeâ(TM)s actions."
-Valen
Orrin is of course in the Senate and not the House. However the point of legislative job security is well taken. Reelection rates of incumbents in both bodies of Congress in recent years are as follows:
Year / House of Representatives / Senate
1998 / 98% / 90%
2000 / 98% / 79%
2002 / 98% / 85%
The more interesting statistic might be what proportion of these folks and their staffs have violated copyright laws. It is probably pretty close to the populace at large.
Cheech: ... And all the time, he was getting stopped and pulled over and asked for his I.D., man. Just everywhere he went he ran into too much recession, man.
Chong: No, man, you mean he ran into too much "repression", man.
Cheech: Ah, repression, recession, man, it's all the same thing, man.
"Santa Clause and His Old Lady"
R: That voice. Where have I heard that voice before? B: In about 365 other episodes. But I don't know who it is either.
Milonic's Woolley said the senator's unlicensed use of his software was just "the tip of the iceberg." He said he knows of at least two other senators using unlicensed copies of his software, and many big companies.
Continental Airlines, for example, one of the largest airlines in the United States, uses Woolley's system throughout its Continental.com website. Woolley said the airline has not paid for the software. Worse, the copyright notices in the source code have been removed.
Can the author of the software use the DMCA to shut down the senator's and Continental's web sites? I heard that all it takes is a copyright infringement notice to the ISP, and the site can be shut down.
The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing. - Edmund Burke
If he had imediately shot his computer on hearing this, I'd have been impressed with his integrity. We will now probably see an exemption for Congress, as usual.
Really this is just an example of what we are seeing more and more again, is that IP is really only for big business, the right is simply not recognized for individuals, or smal l businesses. Hatch should do more than comply, he should set the example, and send the developer restitution... If anyone needs congressional help to enforce their IP its the small developers who simply cannot afford to sue, big lawyers == big overhead..., but
I guess that would upset the 'status quo'.
I thought that chick's name was Alita, not Anna. I was looking for more pics of her...
Anyone got a l/p for bignaturals.com?
3 Senate terms = 18 years
9 terms in the House of Reps = 18 years
(although i prefer your more limited reelection chances)
If a rather prominent internet gossip site is to be believed: http://www.geocities.com/mnussitch/gossip.html
00. if you spit in the sky it will fall in your eye
01. a monkey never sees his own tail
11. never throw stones if you have glass windows
you said other stuff also, but i never paid attention
You need people like me so you can point your fuckin fingers and say, "That's the bad guy." So what that make you? Good?
The Wired article brought a few important points to mind.
that is beautiful. but seriously, what sort of amateur is this guy? - copyright violations - links to porn - crappy spelling - "online traval and resource guide" i can't believe this guy gets any air time at all. people listen to him? he has power and responsibility? no wonder the world is afraid of the US.
Step 1) Massive audit. ...
Step 2)
Step 3) Profit!!!
-moitz-
Screw 'em...who cares what anyone thinks.
If you look at the page source, you will find the following comment:
The Free use of this menu is only available to Non-Profit, Educational & Personal web sites.
Commercial and Corporate licenses are available for use on all other web sites & Intranets.
All Copyright notices MUST remain in place at ALL times and, please keep us informed of your
intentions to use the menu and send us your URL.
Personal, educational and non-profit could be all be argued as classifications for this site.
Am I the only one who read the title as "Senator Orrin Hatch on a Plate"?
It's a common wimpy ass fallback that "I can't do anything about it from here." That's a cop out and you know it.
If you were truly interested in doing something about it, you would make sure to call up his office. You would also make sure to email, write, phone anybody you personally know, and anybody you know who knows someone in his constituency and TELL THEM ABOUT IT!
Stop sitting on your ass whining about what you CAN'T do and actively participate ins what you CAN do.
</RANT>
The english language is in beta. It's evolving but has not yet reached a level of usability.
Yes, he has been fairly peristent in his wrongheadedness about copyrights, and that dates back further than the DMCA. Yes, that wrongheadedness was rewarded by the lobbyists. That doesn't affect his record in other areas, and I would suggest that you refrain from insulting other people, myself included, just because they don't share your single-issue zealotry.
Petman,
Even if they mod me down as redundant you deserve a "well said".
Well said.
never underestimate the bandwidth of a station wagon full of tapes
Sen. Hatch: I don't know what Javascript is, but you'd damn well better audit each and every bit of it.
Legal Team: We don't either, but we'll damn well do it.
Andy Woolley: You'd better, or you'll be in hot water.
Hatch reportedly said that. Ok, so what if destroying a pirate's computer doesn't do the trick? What if they get another computer and pirate more?
Maybe we should execute them... and if we do that, we should do it on national television to set an example.
Now that I have made some fun of the absurd overreaction to copyright violation, I ask this: how many congress people should be fired, or worse for knowingly doing things for personal gain, at the cost of the US people? That's theft of tax money. It's fraud, etc.
Point is, we all know the politicians are effectively paid by corporations to make certain decisions. We also know that we, the public, can't afford to compete with businesses to buy off politicians. I won't rant too much, but we've needed true campaign finance reform for ages. Corporations can't vote, so they shouldn't be able to manipulate government decisions. And we know many of them don't begin to pay the taxes they're theoretically supposed to pay. Yet I do pay my taxes, and when I screwed up one year, I ended up owing a bunch. I'm paying that off.
It comes down to this: our politicians are either ignorant about technology (this is almost universally true), or they are in bed with the corporations who are paying for their re-election campaigns. It's both, of course.
There are a few exceptions, but for the most part, to be able to compete during campaign time, you have to accept as much money from any source who will give it to you. That's the way it works.
I just don't know what more to say about this. It all seems futile. I do think justice, real justice, will be served one way or another. The people in positions of power who abuse those positions usually know what they are doing. They'll remember their deeds on their death beds, and perhaps they'll feel rotted. What a way to die...
.sigs are for post^Hers.
"Milonic DHTML Website Navigation Menu - Version 3.x Written by Andy Woolley - Copyright 2002 (c) Milonic Solutions Limited. All Rights Reserved. Please visit http://www.milonic.co.uk/menu or e-mail menu3@milonic.com for more information. The Free use of this menu is only available to Non-Profit, Educational & Personal web sites. Commercial and Corporate licenses are available for use on all other web sites & Intranets. All Copyright notices MUST remain in place at ALL times and, please keep us informed of your intentions to use the menu and send us your URL."
This is Senator Hatch's personal website, I don't think it's a commercial or corporate site. Granted, he's a senator and this site might be a way for people to donate money, but it's not technically a commercial site.
Those of us in the know realize that Disney concocted Hatch's zany stance and then crazy subversion of his own policy in order to promote their new movie
Pirates of the Great Salt Lake: Curse of the Ironic Pearl
ARRR MATEY! Everyone loves a pirate! Am I right?
I don't want to be here.
I mean, seriously, do you really think Senator Hatch knows anything about HTML or JavaScript? Do you really think he expected whoever he paid to do his web site would use someone else's code? Do you really think Hatch is the "criminal" here? Last I checked, intent is a huge part of criminality. Where there isn't any criminal intent, one can rarely be any worse than liable for minor damages. Then again, the RIAA is trying to tell us that copyright infringement is criminal, not civil...
We do have term limits, they are called elections. Use your vote to elect them out of office. Better yet, use your voice and get fellow members of the electorate to help you in this.
Term limits would hurt politicians that are good as well as those that are scum.
That is the beauty of a democratic system. We get the opportunity to throw out the crummy tyrants and try to elect good tyrants.
The senator must be one of those DICK-headed Americans who shoots off their mouths without thinking.
I mean... just imagine this scenario: a government employee in China (maybe Russia/France or whatever country) is downloading bootlegged music off the Internet. Granted that the guy might be violating U.S copyright law (though technically he is not, because he is not in U.S), but that doesn't give the U.S government the right to sabotage other countries' computers (especially government computers).
So do yourselves a favor and kick this joker out before he causes an international incident which might spark off another war.
Just for the record, I AM NOT AMERICAN.
Check out this link: http://www.hatchmusic.com/songs.html
See the second CD from the bottom of the page, "Many Different Roads"? I thought the cover art looked awfully familiar. Turns out I have a copy of that rose picture on my hard drive from years ago. It's all over the web, and can be found via Google image search.
I don't know the history of that particular image or who owns the copyright to it, but I can't help but wonder if the good senator bothered to find out...
-BK
Chemical Blog
Hope somebody used wget for posterity (and proof)!
We should make sure this Wired story gets in the hands of every tv,radio,and print newsroom in all of UTAH...
Some of them would run it just for the fun...haha.
-- Given enough time and money, Microsoft will eventualy invent UNIX.
...a butt pirate that is....
cee-ripes, will anyone ever learn?
--- Journals are boring; Go to my web page instead
I just reloaded and the web site has been un-defaced. (This was around 12:30 AM EDT on Friday morning.)
I checked, and the first post I saw mentioning the pr0n/Hatch thing on Slashdot was around 10:09 PM. Or some such. Plus or minus time zones, that means it was defaced for around 2.5 hours.
I wonder who finally notices these things? Who on his staff looks at these things all night long to see if they change?
*practice swing w/ baseball bat*
The porn link is down now :(
Isn't the entertainment industry supposed to make people happy? I think they're way off them mark.
All that hoohaaaw, pad're does NOT explain how Hatch finds himself espousing property-theft behavior even a die-hard Stalinist would blanch at --- taking without due_process. But American yeomanry has a traditional WESTERN_style solution even Hatch will understand. If you or YOU try taking a citizens wallet without a court_order most thoughtful Americans will shoot you dead. Nuf_said.
Since the good senator is so against piracy, I feel he shouldnâ(TM)t qualify for two warning. He should publicly destroy his web-servers to show he is not immune to the law. (It would be funny to see too.)
-EndBabble
click on My Utah Search graphic.
The man's gotta point, sir. A Indianian or a Minnesotian or a Mainian isn't going to have any influence in Utah (regarding Senator elections). However, the senators working for our states... hmmm...
--- Journals are boring; Go to my web page instead
Woolley makes his living from his software. Like a lot of independent programmers, he struggles to get people to conform to his licensing terms, let alone pay for his software.
"We don't want blood," he said. "We just want payment for the hard work we do. We work very, very hard. If they're not prepared to pay, they're software pirates."
Hard working programmers, indeed. They work so hard, their blessed menus look like ass in Mac IE, and don't even render in a usable fashion in Safari. A *true* hard working programmer of web site additions crafts his/her code for the widest possible audience (standards-conforming browsers), not just the lowest common denominator (Windows browsers).
He's SELLING CD's ASSHAT. That's COMMERCE. Not to mention that EVEN IF HE WASN'T he'd still be in violation cause' the snippet of code WASN't registered like the java-hack stipulated in the license nor was the copyright displayed.
FUCKING RESEARCH THIS SHIT GODDAMNIT
Interested to know the statistics for all the people replying who are using pirated software.
90% of the people on slashdot have zero credibility when it comes to this. Just like all the whiners about GPL violations that pirate and steal commercial software.
Thats the real Pot calling the Kettle Black situation.
I doubt this guy wrote his own website. Should you not be attacking the developer...
Yes more space, to the tune of ONE Hundred Million Bytes, muahhahahahahahaha </Dr. Evil>
Who cares? Clinton got a blowjob. Meanwhile the current Prez is terrorizing the whole goddamn plantet.
And as soon as such a law went into effect and the music industry started implementing their kill devices, you'd start seeing a wonderful new wave of virii that would flag themselves as 'copyrighted material' while suppressing the warnings you're supposed to receive.
It's not illegal to fuck not-your-wife.
It is illegal to lie about fucking not-your-wife.
It's not very complicated.
Why yes, I AM a rocket scientist!
arrrrr arrrrr arrrr matey ...
*sigh*
To quote a well-known Utah Senator featured in an earlier story, "There's no excuse for violating copyright laws."
Now, granted, it was obviously the webmaster who made this mistake(?) and not Senator Hatch himself, for the good Senator really has little knowledge of this new-fangled technology. But remember that Senator Hatch's proposal wasn't to target webmasters or even p2p users. He was targeting the computers themselves for destruction.
Let's look at the computer a bit more closely. There's the fact that the computer was hosting his website and performing a service for him, and therefore he should be at least somewhat responsible.
There's also the point that the web server involved was (most probably) his computer. So the server should have one strike against it already. A couple more and the RIAA and/or whoever owns the code get to push the big red button. This is regardless of whether Hatch (vs. someone else) committed the violation or not.
BTW, has anyone sent the first "warning" to the webmaster yet?
Because his parents named him "Orrin".
If you were named Orrin, wouldn't you be a little crazy too?
Thought so!
Location: Mt. Xinu
Fine, but that, IMO, is directly analogous to the idea of destroying a computer because it has been used for piracy. Consider the modern computing environment where multiple users may (and do) use one machine for a variety of purposes. Tell me, should all users of the machine suffer if one of them downloads music illegally? If all users on that one machine may be legally targetted because of the actions of one user on the same machine (which is basically Hatch's position) then surely he should be held accountable for someone else's work on his Web site. I mean, it's his site, not mine, not yours and certainly not his Webmaster's.
This only goes to show further how out-of-touch and un-informed Hatch really is about computers. He should be making no laws governing their usage until he can build his own fucking web site.
--Rick "If it isn't broken, take it apart and find out why."
That country was build up on steal. They massacred they natives to get their lands. 100 years later they feel the right to massacre into submission other nations that do the same thing.
They didn't recognise the rights. I remeber reading a note about Tolkien's Lord of the Rings (long before the movies) and there was written how mr. Tolkien didn't receive a penny from the American editors. And the stolen editions have lots of mistakes as well. Now, they are the ones that shout for copyrights. After all the big shots in the music industry are paying taxes in the US. So this is enough for a holy war.
And look who's fighting for that! Who is getting robbed? The ridiculous rock band of oldies Metallica. Spears - a studio creation. Madonna who is too old to whore on the scene. Some years ago I was reading an interview with one guy from Tangerine Dream. Now, those guys are creative. I say tastes can't be commented. But while Spears is only the base for a digitally enhanced voice with no contribution whatsoever those guys from TD do create. They compose and produce their own records. Anyway, the guy was asked what about those who immitate you? The answer was 'people will recognise our music' and something like 'this means we're popular'. And for how about those who pirate your records? he answered that they don't have time for that as they are working for a new project.
Also, he seems to comply with the terms of the license in the source code of the page. Moreover, any asshole that spends a few hours writing JavaScript code and enforcing a half-baked license to ruin someone's political career (for publicities' sake probably) should get a swift kick in the ass.
DHTML Menu version 3.3
written by Andy Woolley
Copyright 2002 Andy Woolley. All Rights Reserved.
Please feel free to use this code on your own website free of charge.
You can also distribute and modify this source code as long as this
Copyright notice remains intact and that you send me notice that you
intend to use this code on your website.
Limited support for this script is provided
Commercial licence agreements are available on request for use & full support.
You can send email to menu3@milonic.com
Milonic DHTML Website Navigation Menu - Version 3.x
Written by Andy Woolley - Copyright 2002 (c) Milonic Solutions Limited. All Rights Reserved.
Please visit http://www.milonic.co.uk/menu or e-mail menu3@milonic.com for more information.
The Free use of this menu is only available to Non-Profit, Educational & Personal web sites.
Commercial and Corporate licenses are available for use on all other web sites & Intranets.
All Copyright notices MUST remain in place at ALL times and, please keep us informed of your
intentions to use the menu and send us your URL.
I just got done writing him a letter and submitting it through his site.
Here it is:
Dear Sir,
Having read your recent proposition that copyright holders be able to "destroy" the computers of those who download their works without permission I am frankly appalled. I understand that as a copyright holder yourself this might be a hot topic for you but please do not let your emotions overcome common sense.
As a profesional Systems Administrator, I understand the problem of unlicenced downloading. It is a plauge on the bandwith of the systems I administer. However, your proposed solution is one of the worst I have ever heard suggested. Copyright does not take precedence over private property laws. Second this would cause untold financial damage to buisnesses, educational institutions, and government agencies who's machiens were used by employees to download music. In the case of medical, or military computers it could even cause loss of life.
Since your website was recently discovered to be running unlicenced software this campaign of yours is rather hypocritical.
I strongly suggest that you drop this idea immediatly as unrealistic. I suggest instead that you pursue reducing the length of copyrights and/or making it much easier for material to go into the public domain. This would allow for a much greater amount of material to be LEGALLY downloaded. People prefer to do the right and honest thing, as well as avoid possible crimes and their consequences. If they have more legal options for downloads many will choose the legal choice rather than the immoral one - thus allowing artists seeking to make a just profit from their recent works, while fulfilling the original intent of copyright - to provide a limited short term monopoly on creative works as an incentive for more material to be released and the public domain be nurtured.
Respectfully,
-name ommited from slashdot-
This must have been a hack - it's gone now...
before writing up that article?!
.. free of charge." Now how, exactly, does this translate to "piracy?!"
Quoted from the Hatch site's source:
"Please feel free to use this code on your own website free of charge.
You can also distribute and modify this source code as long as this
Copyright notice remains intact and that you send me notice that you
intend to use this code on your website. "
Note the "free to use this code
Idiots...
+++++++
"Look, dear, it's a crazy hairy scary man!"
Booyah, you hypocritical dickhead! You, Senator Hatch, embody NONE of the ideals and positions that the newer republican party claims to. You are no different, a nasty old whore for large industries, giving robber barons a separate bill of rights from the common man.
I would join the Democrats except for the obvious fact that they whore to the trial lawyers, whom I find only a tiny smidgeon more despicable than the media conglomerates.
It's a good thing there are still some good men in both parties. In the future I plan to be more careful with my vote, and to choose a man on his merit and not party affiliation. It's a pity that most senators are such asshats. It really is.
I sent Senator Hatch a letter- lets see if he responds. My adopted congresswoman responds personally- she must be new.
He who lives by the really stupid legislation dies by the realy big explosions. Fuck swords.
Legally, you may be right.
But the argument you are making is similar to SCO's complaint against Linus and Linux.
SCO claims that if "infringing" code is in the kernel (assuming SCO didn't put it there), that they have a slam-dunk case, and that anyone using Linux is a copyright-violater, ought to know better, and so on.
Hatch, a Pirate?
Of course not. He's a politician.
Pirates work for a living.
That's funny, but I would hardly think the senator and his website qualify for nonprofit use... I mean, he's probably turning in quite a profit from the RIAA and such, right?
This time, you made the stupid mistake.
Hatch got $175K from the entertainment industry. Do you think he accepted it by accident?
Hatch's remark was NOT a mistake.
Statements like that are made in the hope that the consumer electronics industry and the high-tech community can be crudely blackmailed by threat of insane government action into doing what we are told. That is part of what the *AA organizations are buying from him.
Tech Public Policy stuff
it's just below the link to "Beaver Mountain"
heh heh heh heh
$ strings FTP.EXE | grep Copyright
@(#) Copyright (c) 1983 The Regents of the University of California.
This is definitely a commercial use, so he should pay for the license. OTOH, it is just some stupid Brit who doesn't have a vote for any senator in the US, so his copyright isn't important, is it?
See my journal, I write things there
Well, I don't like her unreconstructed socialist politics, nor do I find her feminist pontifications convincing when her husband gets a free pass on rape and sexual harassment. But most of all, she's a lawyer. They're scum and she's one of the worst. The Rose Law Firm was the very navel of political corruption in Arkansas.
We have nothing to learn from the evil cunt. She must be politically destroyed. Rudy in 2006!
Or did I miss that informative story about the Sonny Bono Copyright Extention Act on network television?
or in the newspaper?
or at my office water cooler discussion?
Out of people I know who don't get their news online,
I have met absolutly zero people informed about that issue, or this issue, or the DMCA. To name a few.
I've asked many musicians about it too.
of the ones I've asked, I'd say the majority is totally oblivious.
Somewhere a media industry executive places his fingertips together and mutters: "Excellent"
Hatch was trying to play "good cop" today against his "bad cop" role yesterday. He's now telling us "We won't destroy your computers if you only do what my masters at the *AA organizations tell you."
This is crude blackmail and deserves all the negative publicity, fair or unfair that can be used to embarass him.
Of course, what's really needed here is a high-tech vendor community willing to stand up to an entertainment industry 1/10 it's size and say:
"We can outspend what you're paying for politicians by a factor of 10 out of petty cash until hell freezes over. Our lobbyists start today. The ads attacking any of your polticians that stay bought by you start running in 10 days.
Rip, mix and burn is going to be the law of the land and there isn't a damned thing you can do about it except hope we let you keep your golden parachutes when we buy your company at 5 cents on the dollar next year."
Of course, if a real high-tech community PAC with $1M or so of startup funding had been put together by last year, we wouldn't need to be hoping the high-tech vendors finally grow a backbone, our people would instead be talking to Congress about rolling back the DMCA.
Of course, this would require the high-tech community to give uo our perverse fascination with political voluntarism and our collective demand that any money given to activism must also be tax-deductible, and for those of us who managed to make a fortune during the dot.com boom and kept it to be willing to part with $1M startup funding to make it work.
In other words, it means that some of us would have to be willing to do more than whine on slashdot. Worse, some of us would have to put in some real money in something that isn't going to bring in megaprofits in 5 years, but might make it possible for all of us to work on advanced technology in the Western World in 5 years.
You know and I know that that's not happening, either.
At this point, I think our best hope is that the *AA organizations get what they ask for. What happens if they fry 1,000,000 computers in the course of the most interesting hour of Net time since it got started? How many will be badly secured VIP home computers?
They fry the wrong 1,000 computers and "immunity" or not, the major label CEOs can't run far enough, fast enough, of long enough to escape the consequences.
For instance, what if a dozen Fortune 50 CEOs have to use their cell phones to call their lawyers from home because their computers and their e-mail isn't working only find out that the RIAA and the label CEOs and the black hats immune to lawsuits because Congress made them that way? How do you punish a billion dollar company if you run a $100B company? What if you want to punish some Congresscritters?
Be assured that they'll think of something.
Tech Public Policy stuff
>Its stealing. Plain and simple. If someone creates a piece of software its a service
If making software and then someone else, whom you've never even met, is using it for free is paramount to stealing, it must be stealing if I get my car fixed and let someone else drive it while I ride in it! The work I paid for, it was for me only, and we're both using the same car at the same time, and I'm not even in the driver's seat anymore!
>Is it really fair that corporations pay hundreds of billions worldwide for software licensing why you don't?
Uhuh. Billions? Do you know what I takes to get incorporated?
$100. Well, where I live, $400, but that's besides the point.
Everyone with Ltd, Co, Inc, or LLC is incorporated. And I know of several that pirate more software than they've ever paid for (some much larger than you think).
...count past 1 in binary.
Read the article again. It clearly states that the source of the website was changed after the word got out that he was using the software illegally. Whoever designed the website was supposed to inform Milonic of its existance and according to Milonic they were never informed, nor was any any mention of a valid licence visible in the source of Senator Hatch's website. Therefore it was in infringement of the licence.
I've dealt with him !
1-800-P I R A C Y... You've got a friend @ the BSA !
It takes 40+ muscles to frown, but only four to extend your arm and bitchslap the motherfucker
To take it a step farther, what we really need is a 24/7 âoeGovCamâ to be permanently mounted on every elected official so we can tune in and see what the hell they are up to.
Itâ(TM)s a network show thatâ(TM)s guaranteed to make The Sopranos dull and drab to be sure. And then some brave media company can put together a website where there is a Survivor-like online game and the losing politicians are exploded out of office.
Starting with Orrin Hatch, of course. Live by remote detonation, die by remote detonation.
Surely you don't think I downloaded those MP3s myself. I don't even know what MP3s are for.
Alternatively:
Sure, if I knew that something was illegial, and I still didn't stop doing it, then I would be at fault, but you can't proove of that.
Slashdot gets worse every day... Pipedot: News for nerds, without the corporate slant
"all that shareware you registered in under 30 days"
Shareware is a form of degenerative IP protection that will lead the unsuspecting subject to use more and more free for use software, leading him in the dangerous path of Free Software, or even (God Prevents !) Copyleft, GPLed so called software !!!
The only way for us to protect America is to protect the poor Lusers and make it so that it is almost impossible for those Shareware to be found anywhere. We owe those poor souls the Joy and Happiness of well made EULA, such as already comfort all good users.
Your friend in the *AA.
It takes 40+ muscles to frown, but only four to extend your arm and bitchslap the motherfucker
that you point at someone, you have three fingers pointing right back at you.
Senator Orrin 'eye-patch' Hatch shouldn't play this holier than thou game.
There's another quote, 'hoisted over their own petard' or something like that..
Will sys-admin for food
Can i please sumise this thread:
"ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha"
Thanks.
I don't usually complain about stories getting rejected, but I submitted this story more than 24 hours ago, when Hatch's site still hadn't been updated. I had heard about it on instapundit which had linked to the same blog that wired sites in its article: Laurence Simon's Amish Tech Support. I wonder why Slashdot waited until this story hit the mainsteam (wired) before covering it. I love slashdot, but I wish that the editors would be more willing to post stories that are breaking in the blogosphere, and not waiting until the mainstream press gets a hold of them until highlighting the story. :-(
OH one rule for you none for me oh one rule for you none for me thats the way the world should be (continue until you feel sick)
Saying Apple is better than MS is like saying Botulism is better than rabies.
After 911, it seems politicians feel more comfortable .. sidestepping .. such principles if they feel the offense is grave enough.
Stop the brainwash
I think it's his hypocrocy that was the problem tho
He is not only a pirate, he is a liar too!
NoSuchGuy
Grundgesetz * 23. Mai 1949 - 30. November 2007 - http://www.vorratsdatenspeicherung.de/
But you also have no right to use the software unless you agree to the license. You aren't paying for the software itself, you're paying for a license to use the software.
If you don't pay, you've seffectively tolen the license.
Government of the people, by corporate executives, for corporate profits.
Didnt they destroy his car in the triple x mowe. hm i wonder how his pc wood look after it been droped from a brige.
Is this Orrin after this slashdot post??
This is a copy of the email I sent to Hatch:
Subject: Intellectual property
US Citizen [yes] Constituent [No]
Mr. Hatch, I respect your current attempts to update your license on your menu. Intent to comply is very indicative of desire. I, too, try to follow every IP law that you guys write for us. The burden is heavy.
However, I would like to point out a bit of philosophy about IP law that has direct effects on the US economy.
I think you should reconsider your position, based on the position of right and wrong.
When you read this, think about natural rights vs. granted rights, and natural law vs. granted law.
(1) Whenever a government violates natural law, it hurts the efficiency of the law, it hurts the economy, and it hurts the government, moving the country toward a state of anarchy. Natural law are those laws that follow from our nature. Sometimes, we do write granted law: a law that is not natural, a law that violates property, or freedom of thought [religion], or the right to defend oneself [2nd Amendment]. The reason we do this is that life without charity and only according to natural law is hard. Yet with all the damage that unnatural law does, it should only be written with great trepidation.
Congress, by the way, is not real good at this one. Look at the size of our law libraries if you doubt me.
Think about my statement: Every unnatural law hurts the economy more than it helps. This is because it hinders economic production. Real wealth depends on production, not on wealth transfer. It is also because granted law makes the economic climate unsure: you don't know if the proceeds of your investment will come back to you or be transferred to another, so you are more hesitant to invest.
(2) Intellectual property is not natural law. The right to work is natural law [that is, to labor to the best of your abilities to better your condition]. Natural law is not to say what a man can do and cannot do to better his condition. Or another way: If I have knowledge, it is natural for me to use it.
(3) Intellectual property is a monopoly. There are two kinds of monopoly: the monopoly of being the only one able to do a job, which is a natural monopoly, and a granted monopoly, which is an unnatural monopoly. The US Constition authorizes some kinds of intellectual property, in an effort to reduce the former monopoly -- but current law increases the latter monopoly much more.
I would argue that it is usually better to allow natural monopolies -- but the fact remains that our Constitution allows otherwise, and I accept that.
Yet the Constitution does not stipulate a set time -- it allows the government to set an undefined limited term of monopoly.
Mr. Hatch, I would like you to consider that monopolies of every kind: copyrights, patents, and any other kind appropriate, be shortened, not lengthened. Already we begin to see the damage done by our IP law, and it is driving real business away, and encouraging investment in "patent firms", which do no real development or manufacturing, but consist only of lawyers who patent, wait for another firm to develop something, and sue.
It is destroying the fastest-growing segments of our information infrastructure as well, such as the Open Source Software that NASA uses.
Already it is encouraging companies to require employees to sign horrible agreements to sign away all rights to all inventions, and thus stifling innovation.
But I don't ask you to consider just the economic effects. Please consider the *philosophy* behind my claims, and see if that is true. If it is, only then consider the economic effects.
Correct Horse Battery Staple: 72 bits of entropy. Enter "Correct H" into google. When it generates the phrase, that's
But if his explode-a-comp(tm) gets through u could use it against your enemies. No doubt geeks will find a way to stop it but you could send through an mp3 or some such to someone you don't like and Kablamo good bye their comp. Evil I know.
-- Karma Karma Karma Karma, Karma Chameleon - Boy George
Sorry we can call him a pirate.
By the proposals he's making there is no due process to determine guilt or innocence, you just make the accusation then act.
I think destruction/confiscation of tools used in the commission of a crime is fine, they do this all the time. What I think is wrong is destroying/confiscating without having to prove guilt.
yeah, an ass pirate!
Pete C
Alison
"It is a miracle that curiosity survives formal education." - Albert Einstein
I don't know what the legal situation is eactly in the US, but in the UK anyone who creates a work that can be copyrighted, automatically gets the copyright assigned to them (i.e. they do not need to write (c) 2003 Joe Blow or register their work anywhere etc.). I imagine that much the same is true in the US.
So, in order for the antihacking laws to be properly circumvented, thus allowing a copyright holder to blow up the computer of anyone breaching their copyright, then everyone who holds a copyright must be made exempt from those antihacking laws.
This will be anyone who has written a story, painted a picture, put up a website, etc. -- i.e. pretty much every US citizen. So, the law would allow anyone to distroy anyone else's computer.
Unless of course, by "compyright holder", what is really meant is "the music and film industries".
This really is a stupid law.
"The noble art of losing face will one day save the human race"---Hans Blix
Written at 3:00am, I hope I didn't do too poorly :P
Dear Mr Hatch,
I would like to share my concerns about your recent comments on 'destroying computers' of alleged copyright infringers.
You say that "I do not favor extreme remedies -- unless no moderate remedies can be found...I asked the interested industries to help us find those moderate remedies."
Realize that the entertainment industry is intentionally holding back their content for use with modern technology. This has been a pattern they have followed each time a new technology came available i.e. audio cassette. It was believed that the audio cassette would bankrupt the record companies, when in fact it helped them flourish in sales because of the convenience the audio cassette offered. (The same can be said for the movie industry regarding the video cassette) We are now at the dawn of a digital revolution with unlimited possibilities, for both copyright holders and copyright infringers. The entertainment industry would be very happy to remove all fair-use rights with digital content imposing very strict and unfair policies. Currently the record companies dictate how content purchased enters a personâ(TM)s ears. They only sell their content on a 20 year old technology called a compact disc. Many advances in audio technology have provided many new ways to manage and deliver music to ones ears with great conveniences. Now, entire music libraries can be stored in a pocket sized portable audio player. There are millions of people in possession of such devices with no legitimate way of purchasing the content for those devices because the recording industry does not offer to sell its content for them. These millions of people are left with little choice on how to obtain their favorite music. I and I'm sure millions of others would gladly pay for the music if it were offered for sale. I strongly feel that the entertainment industry has no legitimate reason to complain that people are 'infringing' their copyrights. Until they offer their content digitally and fairly to meet modern conveniences, I will find it difficult to have sympathy for them.
I have been a supporter of you, and respect you as a senator of this great and free country. But your recent comments have frightened me greatly. As a leader of this country you have the responsibility to uphold the constitution and what it stands for. Your recent comments suggest that you do not hold true to the constitution and its amendments. Giving such awesome power to corporations or individuals is reckless to say the least. Especially when these corporations contribute greatly to their own problems.
Please focus on the root cause of the problem before focusing on the problem itself.
Regards,
(Name omitted for slashdot)
I RTFA'ed and clicked the link to the site in question using my browser of choice, Opera 7.10. The row of links along the top was all bunched up, with all the text overlapping itself.
I then opened up the site in MSIE 6.0 and the site appeared "properly". Clearly, the code in question isn't 100 percent browser-independent. (I'm guessing that it works fine with Mozilla, or else someone else would have mentioned it already in another post.)
Is it asking too much for professional web designers (such as the one who designed the site in question) to check their code on more than one non-MS platforms?
"Accept that some days you are the pigeon, and some days you are the statue." - David Brent, Wernham Hogg
Try explaining the issues to someone his age and make note of their response. I'm betting most of them will view this as a simple theft issue with no ability to comprehend the other side of the story.
Give me a break. Yes, suggesting that some type of system-wide pirate destruction program should be implemented was technologically unsavvy on Hatch's part, but RTFA.
A web development company that put the site up for him was responsible for not registering the software and attributing it properly, however, they did fall under the "free for non-profit use" clause, so no one was out hard money. When the attribution problem was pointed out (or maybe before, the article isn't specific on this point), they endeavored to remedy the situation.
There is a world of difference between an accidental incident like this committed by someone probably not even directly hired by Hatch and the willful and continual downloading, replication, and distribution of copyrighted materials.
I'm sure, however, that most of the Kazaa'ing losers reading the article will ignore that obvious distinction and think once again that their whole moral outlook is justified.
Why are you letting these clowns ruin our country?
SUCK IT HATCH!
This might become a loophole on legally hacking someone else's computer.
A potential new law will again be in contrast to the Computer Misuse Act 1990, the Data protection act, to name a few.
It is almost fun to see the Goverment to try to fight against hacking by imposing laws, such as Regulation of Investigatory Powers Act,
and similar attempts like the Cypercrime Treaty 2001 ( Which basically gives the right to Goverment and Law enformcement agencies to intercept and track down individuals.
Whatever they do they must realize that this is not the way to go ! Technology will always be one step ahead from the Law.
Have you ever been to Utah? *I have.* Hypocrisy is a way of life.
Milonic Solutions' JavaScript code used on Hatch's website costs $900 for a site-wide license. It is free for personal or nonprofit use, which the senator likely qualifies for.
I dought it. Since when is a senator a volunteer postition? Normally in licenses that I've seen when they want to include or exclude the goverment in something they specificly say "governments". Being that this doesn't state that they are included would make me think they are not included.
"Any sentator that proposes a moronic law, will be shot on sight. That is the only way to teach them to stop wasting taxpayers money and exposing their sheer stupidity at the same time".
It is by caffeine alone I set my mind in motion, It is by the beans of Java that thoughts acquire speed, The hands acqui
Well he has also supported the extremely immoral assert forfeiture laws. The guy is a plague on the senate. He may be the voice of moderation for Utah, but most people in Utah are crazy mormons so you don't really have to do much to look moderate when compared to the rest of the yokels.
Not to defend Orrin Hatch in any way, But let's assume that that was simply a mistake in the administration of his website. Let's also say that he qualified for a free version of the code, and it really didn't hurt the original author of the code. Now, should that allow the author to knock his webserver down for a while. If those servers host other sites, e.g. they're part of a large hosting network or something, who's responsible for those who may have lost money because of a trivial mistake on somebody else's part?
However, in my opinion, I think that Hatch should fork over the $900 (and then some) to pay for that software. I would not consider his website personal or nonprofit considering that he uses it to promote his own political career.
--
Adobe's anti-counterfeiting softw
Hatch could sodomize young boys on primetime television while singing L'Internationale and still be reelected easily.
As long as he doesn't criticize the Mormon cult^H^H^H^Hchurch.
If Slashdot were chemistry it would look like this:Cadaverine
My beliefs do not require that you agree with them.
In the days following Sept 11th, Congress could have passed a bill stating that [Arabs] be summarily executed by the military", and I doubt anyone would have raised a finger or a care.
What?!? Do you honestly believe that? Truly? I mean, come on, that's absurd. If you sincerely believe that your elected representatives are that incredibly stupid, and that your fellow citizens are so amazingly ignorant as to not even question legalizing genocide, then why are you still there? I mean, sure, people get emotional and reactionary in the wake of catastrophes of such magnitude, but do you honestly believe that a majority of your elected elite would be so swept up in emotional turmoil as to completely lose their sense of such fundamental values? I mean, come on, surely you realize what a gross exaggeration this is.
Like woodworking? Build your own picture frames.
Start emailing the media, cnn, msnbc, newspapers, radio, etc.
Lets get as much attention to this as we can!
Orrin has taken over 175K so far just this year from the TV/Movies/Music lobby
Orrin is one of the WORST congressmen this country has EVER had. Bought off like every other congressman but he apparently is not only paid off but stupid about the legislation that he introduces.
Uhm, for a guy who claims to know so much about Orrin Hatch's "secrets," why do you keep calling him a "Congressman?"
He's a Senator, genius. Guess they forgot to mention that on the "Drudge Report," or "Open Secrets," or whatever tabloid is is that you consult for your source of ready-made, controversial opinions.
Like woodworking? Build your own picture frames.
Give the states the power to ticket infringers on both sides- make it like a traffic violation as it should be. The states will jump on a new source of income- copyright infringers really will think twice when a large well-funded enforcement group starts popping up.
98% of House incumbents get reelected. He could suggest a bill in favor of allowing Mickey Mouse to come round and assrape your kids (physically rather than just financially), and it wouldn't matter, because as far as Joe America is concerned, it's better the devil you know from his reelection compaign than the devil you don't.
Hatch will keep in his seat until they scrape his festering corpse out of it. Or perhaps a bit longer, depending on whether his corpse's reelection campaign has already been funded by the *AA.
If you were blocking sigs, you wouldn't have to read this.
And here is another of Senator Hatch's WWW sins from the days of meta-tag search engine stuffing.
Arnt there accesabilty requirements for government websites anyway? damn its only a java script, reading the front page i thought "wow too good to be true! hes hosting a warez site!" everytime i read about US senators my respect for them goes down that bit more. soon there wont be any respect left.
Actually thats wrong, im on negative respect for them, so they need to do some positive things in order for me (or most people) to have even "no" respect for them!
This comment does not represent the views or opinions of the user.
So, as soon as you find out that someone presumably cannot write "worth a damn," you instantly feel obligated to insult her? Do you think it is OK to call a woman "b*tch," "c*nt," or "p*ssy," just because you think she cannot write as well as you think you can? How very mature of yours. I hope it is a rewarding hobby indeed. You should be certainly proud of yourself.
Karma: Positive (probably because of superiour intellect)
Someone should have a little chat with Mr. Orin. Does he believe that ALL computers should be nuked if they contain illegal copyrighted material?
If so, then what about those computers in the government which may contain terabytes of important information, and maybe one single illegal file? Does that one single file give the copyright owner the right to destroy all that information?
What would stop the next senator (extremist or just looking for the political spotlight) from taking that next step?
Here's a scenario, Someone at, say the FBI has access to their mainframe, and while doing their job they like to listen to music, so they have Mp3s on their PC. Well one day they are told they are getting a new PC, and happily transfer all their personal data onto the mainframe so it can be copied to their new PC later.
Say they like to listen to Metalica, and one of the files they had was an old file originally illegally traded through Napster or Kazaa or such.
Does Metalica now have the right to destroy the FBI mainframe, and doing so destroy any data contained therein about criminals and terrorists?
Doing so would directly jeopardize the safety of millions upon millions of people.
What about software that was created using illegally gained SDKs? Should that software be destroyed as well?
Sorry Jimmy, I know your in middle of your kidney dialysis, but the firmware for this machine was written using an illegal download of a copyrighted compiler. Oh and by the way, your dad's pacemaker? the firmware for that was written using the Notepad of an illegally pirated copy of Microsoft Windows 3.1. It's going to have to be nuked.
You can say good bye to your dad now. Yep bye bye....bye bye!
You mom? oh she's on a flight here...
oh shit...the navigational software on that plane...
I think Orin should be enlightened to the ramifications of opening this Pandora's box.
What would then stop a terrorist from alleging that the vital computers he fried contained his copyrighted material?
This contains all the items of interest, including the license comments.
Helevius
You remind me a kid, who laughed at me in primary school, because I wore glasses. "But I don't laugh because you wear glasses! I laugh because you have four eyes and look ugly and you are stupid and I don't like you and nobody likes you and everybody likes me!" You both seem to present equally intelligent arguments.
I think you should definitely calm down. Prozac might help you. It always works for me.
Karma: Positive (probably because of superiour intellect)
Comment removed based on user account deletion
Who gets to decide if it was willful and obvious?
Sen Hatch is proposing the copyright holder, and no legal restraint on their action.
Many have proposed the copyright holder be given these powers, and only demonstrate they thought there was infringement.
Here we have clear proof of willful infringement.
By the logic the copyright enforcers are proposing that is enough to destroy his computer.
Yes we realize he isn't directly responsible, and knowledgable about what he did wrong. But the same can be said for some of the people trading files, or ripping CD's.
BTW in Canada you can copy a musical recording for personal use.
Nice Sentiments. The people should have the right to question government, and the methods of government selection in this free country don't you. The poster was suggesting modifying the system to prevent career politicians, and thus provide a greater choice of electable representatives. Moving to China, as you so eloquently suggest, would not help, as they brook no dissent from the masses.
I feel that it's you, who has lost the plot of this country - a strong, well informed public, working to safeguard democracy from the tyrany of government, is essential in any country. If you aren't patriotic enough to do this, it is you who are neglecting youtr civic duty. And why ship people abroad - one nation, indivisible, remember.
And hey, this is a republic.
All thats going to happen is some small-fry web developer, probably still reeling from the dot.com bust is going to get sued so that Hatch can prove just how harsh he is on pirates. Look what piracy did to him! Nearly cost him his reputation! Just goes to prove...etc. etc.
Thirty seconds of thought (or less) would of told you the best way to deal with Hatch is to ignore/ridicule and in the final effort, use logic argument against him if necessary. Not this childish nonsense. Whats happened here is the slashdot demographic has just hanged one of the own for no gain.
Well right off the bat, forget Fox. Fox is the state-run news source. They wouldn't say a word against a conservative politician for any reason. To Fox, a conservative politician simply cannot do wrong, or if they do wrong, it is ok if the end is "good" (ie, the end justifies the means bullcrap of the current D.C. Regime).
As for the others, they have to smell ratings in it to report it. If it leads to any negative letters (or MIGHT lead to negative letters) then they wont report it. Ratings, you know. $$$ you know.
This is a job for NPR and the BBC, the only independent and gutsy news orgs left, so it seems.
In Bushworld, they struggle to keep church and state separate in Iraq as they increasingly merge the two in America.
Hello pot, it's the kettle calling.
Just to fill you in, though, Young had a kind of secret police that kept people in line, and assassinated people who were out of step. Dissent really wasn't an option.
Who cares? The important thing is that his great-great-grandson (not sure on the number of "greats") was a good quarterback!
Where is the personal responsibility that the congress is always talking about. Why is it the responsibility of a raped women to carry the resulting child, but not the responsibility of a senator to take responsibility for the mistakes of the people that do his work. Why is it ok to deny a child $80 a week for food, but the senator can just claim 'i have no control over my staff' and walk away free.
I mean really. Honor is not such a hard thing. For instance, do not claim that the malfeasance in a company that is yours, a company that pays you millions of dollars to manage, was not your responsibility. If you were not aware of the impropriety, then at least admit negligence.
In this case, if you are a elected official, say a president, do not act like a coward and hide behind plausible deniability and claim you were unaware of that your staff was trading drugs. If you were indeed unaware, at least have the honor to admit incompetence and negligence.
This is why our kids come to school without proper materials. They see top government and corporate officials never taking responsibility, or held to account, for anything of a significant nature, so why should they?
"She's a scientist and a lesbian. She's not going to let it slide." Orphan Black
If people would check Milonic's website before blabbering on slashdot, they will notice that Hatch has resolved this issue:
"We have received many emails regarding the implementation of our software and Milonic are pleased to announce that there are no longer any licensing issues with reference to the above [Orin Hatch] website..."
Wouldn't it be nice to see the SBA on his ass charging him $5K for the copywrite infrengement.?
Thats the first time I've heard homosexuality referred to as a vice.
If you never heard that before, you need to emerge from your parents' basement. Not that I agree with it, but surely you must have heard it at least once.
Typical for the congress, dosen't matter if they are democrats or republican 99% of them are the same. It's gotten to the point, they it's a feudilistic (sp) country. We the "little people" are the surfs.....idiots who can't walk and chew gum, and if it wasn't for the kings telling us what to do, we'd all be walking around bumping into everything. They make rules for everyone to follow EXCEPT them! Just look at all the idiots up there complaining about SUV's.......They scream that it's causing global warming, but when they go home, it's in a chauffer driven limosene, or flying home in a private jet, to live in a 40 room mansion that has a 20 car garage. Until this country wakes up, throws ALL of them out, and elects people from "flyover" country, and limits their terms to let say 12 years with NO reelection possibility, it will never change. The lobbyist have their claws well dug into these idiots. It's sad, that 99% of them, have tossed their ethics out the windows for the $$$$ instead.
From the Milonic website:
We have, for some time, been thinking of changing the licensing regarding Government run websites and applications that use our software. The reason for this is due to the administrative overhead we have for issuing free licenses, we can no longer afford to offer free licenses to Government organizations.
TRANSLATION
In light of recent circumstances the price for government organizations will be one mmmmmilion dolars.
The sad truth about this whole thread is that with all the licensing debates and jokes the real problem is ignored. That being that a government with no real grasp on the technology or its implications, good or bad, is debating on a daily basis legislation to regulate that technology.
I think, as most groups are doing these days, that free software advocates should be lobbying congress and that a grasp on technology should be an issue in any election campaign. The US senate is the big time, not some triple A farm team - lets treat it as such.
I was crazy back when being crazy really meant something. (Charles Manson)
1. Milonic is free for personal or non-profit use.
2. Milonic did not require licensing until recently. Unless you happened to return to the milonic site you would not be aware of this.
3. Milonic's menu system has bee posted by the company all over the net touted as free example software.
4. Milonic has no way of knowing that the governor did not actually license the software as it would most likely have been registered by another name, most likely the persons involved in coding the governor's site.
Yes the Governor's strategy to destroy computers of music theifs demonstrates his stupidity, but Milonic shows how equally stupid they can be.
No, key word is non-profit, RTFL (read the fucking license). As, "Please feel free to use this code on your own website free of charge." and "The Free use of this menu is only available to Non-Profit, Educational & Personal web sites." A government web site is non-profit, not a commercial business.
This is informative.
People need to know that Sir Mixalot is doing okay.
but he is the most influential Utah politician in Washington right now
I know the honorable senator means well, tries to be noble. And I know it sounds like flame bait. But consider two things:
1. The honorable and intelligent senator spoke of an issue without understanding its most simple implications.
2. A rancher, or farmer does not care about software pirating. But those that reap billions in re-inventing the wheel do.
CNN, MSNBC, FoxNews, ABC/Disney, and ALL of the others seem to be based on pure viceral knee-jerk reporting.
"Welcome... to the real world."
Edith Keeler Must Die
As has been mentioned elsewhere on this thread: he was selling bad CDs on his site for 16 bucks. So yes it's commercial.
However, if you have a look at his site now, he's taken all that crap off: maybe he or his staff understood that they were getting a ton of hits and he realized what a piece of sh#t his site looked like (and that crass commercialization isn't what his constituents were looking for).
BTW his explanation as to why he made the comments,
âoeI made my comments at yesterdayâ(TM)s hearing because I think that industry is not doing enough to help us find effective ways to stop people from using computers to steal copyrighted, personal or sensitive materials. I do not favor extreme remedies â" unless no moderate remedies can be found. I asked the interested industries to help us find those moderate remedies.â
doesn't hold water. Does no one just say "Sorry I said something stupid" in government? So: since I can't find a moderate remedy for littering (people keep doing it even though I'm fining them) I should start killing them instead? Hmmmm.
according to this the authors of the software don't think Hatch would have to pay, if he had tried to license it legaly.
autopr0n is like, down and stuff.
The U.S.'s lawmakers these days are just too blind-stupid about technology. And it doesn't appear to be changing. Oh yeah, and they're too easily bought by lobbyists.
I'm afraid it's geek's like you who are blind-stupid about politics.
Hatch is proposing a CRAZY proposal that will get a lot of PR. Most everybody will agree it's crazy, but half will want a moderate comprimise.
What do you get when you comprimise between destroying computers to stop P2P and doing nothing to stop P2P?
Hatch is setting up the stage for serious anti-P2P legislation, and if the majority of us keep reacting like you, WE'RE FUCKED!
Politicians pretend to be stupid. Get a clue.
Better yet. Read Machiavelli or Sun Tzu.
"Communism is like having one [local] phone company " - Lenny Bruce
i like feeding trolls.
every time you respond to a 'mensa babe' (read as high-school dropout fat guy) post, you are feeding a troll. I am proud to have 'mensa babe' on both my foes and freaks list. This is not for 'mensa babe', but for people that don't read comment histories before replying. I'm not saying you shouldn't respond, cause it can be fun, just know you're feeding a troll when you do.
http://xkcd.com/386/
www.tdf.org/tdfimages/rose.jpg
Remember, he doesn't want YOU to get a defense when you're accused by a media company of violating copyrights. They can just take action to hurt your computer or your connection, no matter the cost OR the proof. It's his site, he's responsible for it. Think RIAA care if you know you're comitting piracy? No.
I think this post was deceptively titled.
:p) to rail against their senator (who, by the way, is generally held as a moral and respectable senator..on both sides of party lines), I don't see much good, if any, this has done.
The first thing I thought when I read this is "Why would Senator Hatch be the pirate?". I wasn't aware that any Senators designed their own websites. The fact is, they don't. It is kind of ironic that Mr. Hatche's own website has a pirated script...in light of his recent proposals on piracy prevention. BUT I think that he is not a pirate, he is actually a victim of piracy in this occassion.
He paid a company a lot of money to design his website, and like so many others...he got screwed. It is not uncommon for paid web designers to lift other people's designs, use pirated software, or even steal scripts entirely. It happens every day, the responsible party is the company that stole it, not the unknowing customer.
The headline and the possible irony may have drawn a lot of posts, but outside of a chance for unhappy Utahans (I just coined a phrase
Sure, his philosophy on how to deal with computer piracy is extreme, and even scary. We can rest knowing that such legislation would never make it through the Senate, House, President...or hold up in Courts. It violates every constitutional right that protects individual property.
Speaking of property though, maybe if we'd stop defending Kazaa and filesharing...and admit that 99% of its users pirate software and music, we wouldn't need this legislation. It is users (myself included) that keep it a float.
Clif
clifgriffin > blog
He doesn't do the actual shopping cart on his site, but the very front page of http://www.hatchmusic.com/ says ORDER. Clicking it lets you pick some tunes and enter your CC to PURCHASE the songs. Everything on the site is aimed at getting you to listen to some samples and buy his work.
If that's not commercial, I don't know what is.
This only goes to show further how out-of-touch and un-informed Hatch really is about computers. He should be making no laws governing their usage until he can build his own fucking web site.
You are so full of shit. Should senators not be able to make laws regarding auto safety until they can build their own fucking car? You're a moron. Sure, it would be *nice* if our elected representatives were experts on every single facet of technology/industry/art/education/everything else. It's just not very feasible. Besides, web sites aren't the only things computers can be used for. Shouldn't he have to learn how to code, too? And how to rush in de_dust? and how to make that really complex powerpoint presentation? Bah.
http://xkcd.com/386/
Front... /* i am the license for the menu */
Back
(duh)
Or does the Senator own the copyright to that statement as well...
His site does not mention the
destruction of personal computers.
Did he remove it?
-=- Many seek good nights and lose good days.
Sometimes images are shared by people with sympathetic views. Sometimes such things are mere coincidences. Does this co-use of the rose image seem like a coincidence or does it betray the good Senator's secret sympathy for Islamic extremism?
[It's funny. Laugh.]
-- @rjamestaylor on Ello
I believe you've confused the Boy Scouts of America with the Catholic Church.
The software that is 'pirated' is from a UK company. Sen. Hatch is not interesting in protecting the rights of anyone but the big American companies that pay his bills...
On a side note, with this becoming more and more common, is there any kind of plan for a tag in the future? Seems like the right thing to do.
Number two is that he's going to blame his embarassment on "shareware" without ever looking into free software or what it's all about. The web developer will be fired for not using a comercial system you can buy in a box. He'll never underastand that the GPL is the most honest software deal going. Closed source software is easy to reverse engineer and such "piracy" hapens all the time. Less rigorous open source licenses can lead to missunderstandings like this one. The GPL forces prominent notification of your rights and carries no "pay me if you go comercial" restrictions.
Yeah, the developer is going to be fired for having half a clue. That's what you get when you work for someone like Hatch.
Friends don't help friends install M$ junk.
Do we have permission to Cut -n- Paste your letter?
Do us all a favor and up the dosage. Perhaps then these posts wouldn't put all that sand in your vagina.
I emailed this link to the host of my favorite morning radio show last night before I went to bed, and when my alarm clock radio went off at 5:50 this morning, I heard him reading it on the air. Jim Quinn (host) had talked about Senator Hatch's plans before, and (like many of us) had found it very ironic that this man enploys pirates to do his web site.
This space for rent, inquire within.
Should I start waving a pistol at everybody who cuts me off, or torching the car of that guy down the street who plays his stereo too loud?
Have you BEEN TO L.A.?
Sun Tzu hasn't yet made it onto my "read today" list, but Machiavelli is one I recently finished. "The Prince" was only moderately concerned with the the rights of the people, whereas the main focus was on the stability of the state - the getting and keeping of power. Maybe Sun Tzu is a bit more relevant to your comments, but, as I said, I wouldn't know not having read it.
Next point - politicians don't have to pretend to be stupid. Seriously - those who aren't professional politicians have business backgrounds. That gives them a lot of administrative sense, and really that makes them very qualified for the overall task. And you may be right, Hatch trying to start the bidding higher so he can get the price he wants. But laws already exist for companies to pursue and recover damages from "pirates". And really, they seem to work, insofar as the owners of the content are willing to look for violators.
Currently they can take several thousand people to court, and after due process, if they are guilty, can get everything they have, and, as I understand it, a portion of their future earnings.
Under the most extreme of the new proposals, they can destroy the computers of several thousand people without any legal review.
I can't see that the law needs to be changed.
Inconceivable!
that he's so pissed off by Kaaza ... no one is trading his songs. ;)
License Details:
Type: Professional
Number: 188909
Dated: 20th June 2003
So under Hatch's system, the computer destroyer sends him a warning. He then registers the software and puts up the link (he doesn't actually owe the company any money if he has non-profit status), thereby avoiding having his computer destroyed. He then thinks, "Great, the system works." Maybe if some bug in the sw didn't notice he was now in compliance and destroyed his computer anyway, hee'd think twice about his policy.
Vote for Pedro
If this legislation were applied to stolen code, every computer on the internet would self-destruct. Talk about a WMD! We are kidding ourselves when we compare stolen art to stolen computer instructions. EVERYONE COPIES CODE.
Who's going to call and inquire when we should nuke his computers for him.
"I even paid $300 for my copy of Windows2k"
Duh, list is $200.
So not only are you a self-righteous idiot, you're a fucking moron, too.
umm, adultery IS illegal in most jurisdictions.
LYING about it is not as big a deal as the hypocrisy of the adulterers (Gingrich, Henrty Hyde, etc., ad infinitum) who went after the adulterer.
It's still not very complicated:
hypocrisy about one's own shortcomings is more disgusting than the shortcomings in others.
E.g. Hatch calling for punishing pirates, Gingrich/ Hyde calling for adulterers to be punished, That Liar In Pres. Gore's Office calling others 'revisonists'
Congress is made up of two houses: the House of Representatives, and the Senate.
Both Senators and Representatives are Congressmen, however, Senators prefer to be known as Senators, rather than associating with the Rabble in the House of Representatives.
09 F9 11 02 9D 74 E3 5B D8 41 56 C5 63 56 88 C0
This is one of the top ten dumbest things I have seen on /. In fact, this is one of the dumbest things I can think of for a person to argue about.
The senators website is there so he can communicate with his constituants. An elected official trying to talk with the people that elected him is not a "commercial use' anyway you try to look at it. Give it a rest.
Regarding the issue of your proposal to allow copyright holders to respond to violators with the destruction of their property.
I suspect by now you've already received a fair amount of negative response to your comments. I wish to add my own.
I consider the act of destroying a copyright violator's personal property by the copyright holder to be analogous with me having the right to go into my neighbor's home and smash his stereo equipment because he refuses to turn down/off his music while I am trying to sleep. Stillwater, Oklahoma has a law/ordinance against excessive noise in residential areas and I can call the police if my neighbor is violating that ordinance. If he continues to refuse to comply, he may be fined or worse. If I destroyed his personal property to prevent his violation, I would be liable for the damages, be fined and possibly jailed. This is as it should be.
I have been a professional software developer for over 14 years. My livelihood is derived directly from licensing copyrighted software to other people. If they copy and use my software without paying, I lose; however, our constitution says that I may not destroy or otherwise deprive another of his property *without due process*!
AND THIS IS AS IT SHOULD BE!
I hope you realize just how thoughtless and anti-constitutional your suggestions were. Please apply your future energies to more practical and legal solutions.
PS: In spite of (or perhaps because of) the RIAA's recent actions and the general S.O.P. of the recording industry with respect to treatment of their artists/content providers, expect a revolution in which musicians specifically and artists in general move to independent labels and means of content distribution. I believe this is happening already and will ultimately make the organizations which the RIAA represents nearly irrelevent in future copyright discussions. Do not treat their heavy-handed lobbying as a serious cause. They are scared because their business model is flawed in today's context, not merely because of flagrant copyright violation. Their business model cannot survive, but they desperately wish it to do so. If they can't change to meet the consumers' needs, they deserve to perish as a more appropriate model takes over.
No, actually, we don't want to destroy the computers of spammers. Why? Because a lot of hosts that actually do the spamming are not owned by the spammer, they are simply hacked servers.
Now, being able to press a monentary damage against a spammer, or charge them for hacking an open relay... that's a little better.
So in what way does common sense say that Hatch should be exempt if he didn't know it was happening? He wouldn't give you or me a chance to defend ourselves - he would blow up our computer.
Fuck him. I'm tired of politicians thinking that the rules they create only apply to "the little people" and not them.
Oh genius boy, glass houses and all that. Congress covers both the Senate and House of Representatives, so congressman can be used to refer to a member of either body.
Well I'm the doctor and I say you're dead, so shut up and take it like a man!
A Senator is likely to be quite offended if you call him a Congressman. Kind of like how "sleeping with" really means "having sex with"....Congressman == House of Represenatives.
When Clinton was president, if both senators from a nominees didn't support him, the nomination died in comittee. Now that we have a Republican president, the same standard doesn't apply for democratic senators.....
I didn't say he had to build his own computer. I said he needed to illustrate in some way that he had some understanding of computers before he start suggesting legislation concerning them (my comment about him building his own web site was a less direct way of getting that point across.) Is that an unreasonable position to you? To put it back into your own analogy, shouldn't a lawmaker have some sense about how cars work before they pass legislation concerning cars? That's a closer analogy to what I said originally. You're exaggerating to muddy the valid point I was making.
Given that and the name-calling, I suspect you know that and don't care and are responding because the idea of criticizing Hatch's idiocy bothers you for some reason.
--Rick "If it isn't broken, take it apart and find out why."
He's in good company.
I didn't say he had to build his own computer. I said he needed to illustrate in some way that he had some understanding of computers before he start suggesting legislation concerning them (my comment about him building his own web site was a less direct way of getting that point across.) Is that an unreasonable position to you? To put it back into your own analogy, shouldn't a lawmaker have some sense about how cars work before they pass legislation concerning cars? That's a closer analogy to what I said originally. You're exaggerating to muddy the valid point I was making.
Given that and the name-calling, I suspect you know that and don't care and are responding because the idea of criticizing Hatch's idiocy bothers you for some reason.
Um. No. He doesn't have to be able to build a web page to have a 'general idea' of how computers work. Just as he wouldn't have to design the interior of a car to have a general idea of how *it* works. I was simply pointing out that no one can reasonably expect every senator to know everything about everything. However, he can still make an uninformed comment if he wants to. It doesn't make him a hypocryte, which is what *you* said. You made a fallacious argument and got busted, and now you claim I'm exxagerating to muddy your point. Bullshit. Your point was crap. I have no problem with people criticizing senator hatch. I have a problem with people making nonsensical arguments to do it. I'm sure he has a general idea of how computers work, as in enough to use one for very basic uses, just like most people use their cars for very basic uses. As I said before, it would be *nice* if senators knew a lot about every facet of american life, however it's not *reasonable* to expect it. That was my point. To sum up: 'building a web page' != general idea of how computers work. senators don't know *everything* about *everything*, and yet they still have to make laws somehow. No one is seriously suggesting that senator hatch's opinion would be written into law. That is all.
http://xkcd.com/386/
Heh. I'm a little bit shocked to find that MSNBC has managed to outstrip Fox for most biased coverage.
NPR pushes its own agenda of course (quite heavily), even if I agree with it more. BBC and CBC are both quite good, but they're out of country. For that matter, no one who needs to know about Hatch listens to NPR anyways.
My point was to appeal to the dirt-digging muckraking WORST of the media. Get someone at (insert crappy media outlet here) to really make it a mission to take down the Senator, and then watch the sparks fly. NPR doesn't hold enough sway to do that.
"People who do stupid things with hazardous materials often die." -- Jim Davidson on alt.folklore.urban
We elect these people to make laws that affect our lives with the implicit assumption that they will inform themselves enough to make sensible decisions in that regard. Having a "general idea of how computers work" doesn't cut it, especially if he throws out the moronic suggestion that a computer should be open to actual destruction if it's used for illegal purposes. Likewise, I wouldn't want a representative making laws about automobiles with just a "general idea" of how cars work. If a lawmaker is unwilling to educate himself in this regard, then he has no business being a lawmaker. The fact that Hatch makes silly suggestions about destroying computers and puts up a website with his name on it that contains illegally used software demonstrates to me that he has failed to educate himself about computers--regardless of who is directly responsible for the latter. These things betray his lack of knowledge in this area and, IMO, everything he utters in that regard should be taken no more seriously than a joke.
To sum up: 'building a web page' != general idea of how computers work.
But if he had some sense of how these things work, maybe he would have noticed this himself and questioned it. It's clear that he has not one whit of comprehension about the functioning of Web sites and involves himself no further than signing off on its design. He is a know-nothing in terms of computers. That's a statement I make from his actions and utterances. He could prove me wrong, but I'm not holding my breath.
Good luck defending him however.
--Rick "If it isn't broken, take it apart and find out why."
You have an unsupportably narrow definition of hypocrisy. We agree the pompous ass is unlikable. My reason for it is he has made a living denouncing what are generally agreed to be vices. He did not ever claim that he was denouncing only a few, specific behaviors. He has claimed a mantle of moral authority. Before this particular scandal broke, there were probably fewer than three people who condemned the set of things he condemned while excluding gambling from that set. Once the scandal broke, his allies in the conservative dominated media (and it is dominated by conservatives - compare the air time given conservative spokespeople to that given to moderates and leftists) then drew that distinction. But they wouldn't have before.
If he had only one particular thing he railed against, only one axe to grind, then it wouldn't be hypocrisy. But he has set himself up as the arbiter of moral behavior, and has railed against all the sins he himself doesn't pursue. And he knows the ones he does pursue are sins. I am sure that he believes gambling is not a moral behavior. Besides, it is very common for a hypocrite to forgive and regard his/her own behavior - that's its essence! So Bennett is a hypocrite for denouncing vices while having them. In his position he cannot hector others' harmless vices while having any himself and be clear of hypocrisy. It's not that he has denounced a select few behaviors; he has championed a moral code in broad and general ways and failed to live up to it himself. His definition of vice comes down to "what other people do" and that is essential to the moral blindness of hypocrisy.
"All the things you do are bad. What I do (which is indisputably comparable) is acceptable." I don't follow your statement drawing a distinction between a vice and immorality. A vice is a vice because it's immoral. He's a hypocrite for giving his behavior a pass while judging everyone elses on a vast range of topics. That's bullshit, and it's hypocrisy. I don't know if he has specifically denounced theft, but given his pose as the moral guardian of our (my!) behavior, he would be a hypocrite for embezzling from one of his organizations. There are other sins/moral failings he might have omitted from his specific list, but being guilty of any of them, while presenting himself as a moral authority, fairly brands him a hypocrite.
I also disagree with the degree of alignment with a condemned behavior ones own behavior must have to qualify as hypocritical. Newt is certainly a scumbag and I hope the next time he says "family values" he chokes. But I don't think it has to be the exact same act (sex with an intern, as Newt did) to qualify as hypocrisy. Anything substantially similar would do. Getting a lap dance would suffice for one who condemned sexual immorality. A serious porn habit...hmmm. Dunno- there's probably enough distance from that.
Our dispute is whether gambling itself makes him a hypocrite, and if I haven't convinced you, we can still agree the shithead is a hypocrite for specific behaviors he himself has denounced.
I'm pretty sure he railed against dishonesty during the Clinton era. So his lies about this episode make him a hypocrite. He lied about his gambling habit, its extent and its costs.
While drug czar, he used drugs. His were legal, but they were still mood altering, health damaging substances. Anyone who uses the phrase "drugs AND alcohol", rather than "Drugs, including alcohol" is a liar.
Besides, don't you find it smacks of Clintonian hair-splitting to say, "I never said you shouldn't gamble." It sounds a lot like excluding blowjobs from the definition of sex.
Being a judgemental, bigoted ass is worse, and he's guilty of that.
Hypocrisy can be fairly admirable: holding ideals you can't quite live up to is not such a bad thing. Combine it with honesty and self-knowledge and you have a grown up. Leave it out and you have Bill Bennett.
Comment removed based on user account deletion
it was funny. Let it go at that ...