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Sen Hatch Would Like To Destroy Filetraders' PCs
CBackSlash writes "Sen. Hatch is interested in technology to remotely destroy computers. But it would only be used if you're downloading copyrighted material, and only the copyright owner should be able to wield this awesome power, since having the feds do it would be against the law. Here is the AP story from Yahoo!."
...Sen Hatch went on to propose that cars be designed so that they explode when they exceed the speed limit - or "pirate drive" as he preferred to call it.
Sen. Orrin Hatch, R-Utah
Oh, I see why now. Perhaps he received some donations from other upset copyright holders.
Things you think are in the Constitution, but are not.
Just how out of touch can congress get with the average American?
-------------------------------------------------
Technology to blow up computers. Sounds like a class action lawsuit to me!
--
# Canmephians for a better Linux Kernel
$Stalag99{"URL"}="http://stalag99.net";
That is just pure lunacy. Hatch has said some pretty crazy
things over the years, but this has to top the list.
I've been a supporter of Hatch for several years, even helping
with the election effort on several occasions. This takes the
cake though, it's time to get fresher blood into that office.
If you want to call his office and complain (as I will):
DC Office: 202.224.5251
SLC Office: 801.524.4380
here is his website:
http://www.senate.gov/~hatch/
Please call and voice your extreme antagonism to these types of
statements. Although the other Senators called him down, he
needs to know that we hear these statements and are against them
in the extreme.
I just got off the phone with the Salt Lake Office, and they had
no idea he had made statements of this nature. In fact she was
quite taken back to hear of them. Please call and let them know
how you feel about this. If they know their voters are against
this type of behavior, they will change it.
Doug Tolton
"The destruction of a value which is, will not bring value to that which isn't." -John Galt
That in this day and age, the fool was still voted into office last time around?
- OR -
That he will likely be voted in again?
You decide.
Just have him sit at one of these computers downloading this "copyrighted" material, and remotely destroy it using powerful electrical charges. Piece of cake. No more whack job senator. ;)
These people are no smarter than a little kid saying, "I'm a hacker, I can make your computer blow up using the internet." They need to be asking the technology experts solutions to these matters, like Apple's music store. Of course, KaZaA still needs to be eliminated since competition between one legal source of music and an illegial one is kind of silly. However, I can tell these represenatives know little to nothing about technology the way they talk about using these unethical and impractical tactics against music piracy, if they do this, they are no better than who they are fighting.
will he be making guns that shoot the robbers when they are pointed at police officers?
Iâ(TM)m guessing that the next big computer worm will plant a Celine Dion song on your computer and then send an âanonymous tipâ(TM) to the RIAA.
(sig on loan to Smithsonian)
Finally something less reasonable than self-destructing DVD's.
I Geek
I can't believe this crap is still going on - That would be like when Hatch is moving into a new house, and it turns out his cable is active (from the last owner) and since he didn't pay for new service, and is "stealing" it until he gets hooked up under his name, that AT&T should be able to blow up his TV. This guy is a moron, and I hope he dies a slow, painful death for damage he is doing to this country's already-screwed up laws.
We destroyed the wrong computer. Better luck next time.
Lame Copyrighter: No sir, sorry sir, I thought the file was violating my copyright, I did not know that was the only recording of your wedding.
Let me make up by giving you a one year free subscription to Weddings and Everything....
He probably has nothing to worry about since I think that old man is probably too old to even know how to use a computer. Why is it always the old, technology phobic senators who seem to come up with these "great" ideas? I think it is going overboard destroying a thousand dollar+ machine for, say, pirating a $15 CD. Even in the "eye for an eye" mentality, that is going too far. When is he due for reelection?
today is spelling optional day.
So, we can use this on companies when we find they have violated GPL, right? Since GPL works off copyright? I see some vigilante style action comin' on..
slashdot!=valid HTML
"Washington Post reports that the chairman of the Senate Judiciary Committee, Orrin Hatch from Utah, said Tuesday he favors developing new technology to remotely destroy the computers of people who illegally download music from the Internet. A notably quote: "If that's the only way, then I'm all for destroying their machines. If you have a few hundred thousand of those, I think people would realize [the seriousness of their actions]". Hatch has a personal interest, since I'm sure his music is pirated on a regular basis. ;)"
:)
Just thought people might appreciate other links and such...guess I should've submitted it a couple minutes earlier....oh well
First Hatch's son is one of the lawyers pursuing the SCO case, now Orrin is talking smack about filesharing...
Will someone please investigation campaign contributions made to Orrin? I'll bet a dollar to a doughnut that Microsoft has made significant contributions to Mr. Hatch's past campaigns.
..when the RIAA blows my computer up because they thought I was violating copyright but it turned out to be a work in the public domain? Do I get a check or just a "oops, sorry."
So can I plant bombs in DWI drivers cars?
Driving while intoxicated laws should not be broken!
Moron!
"There are laws that enslave men, and laws that set them free. " - Sean Connery as King Arthur
When mistakes are made and my computer gets destroyed because the "RIAA FUCKED UP" and misidentified my downloads (see previous slashdot stories) I wonder what kind of recourse I get. Will Hatch pay the damages? He'll probably exempt the corporations. Luckily as a copyright holder myself I guess I'll be able to go destroy other people's computers. That'll be fun.
Invalid Checksum. Retrying.
In related news, they said that the software is only compatible with Windows.
We Mac users never get any of the popular software...
the next time I see one of my legislators driving around massivly exceeding the speed limit and failing to use thier turn signals I get to follow them home and destroy thier vehicle. To paraphrase Hatch in my context: This may be the only way you can teach somebody about traffic laws. and "There's no excuse for anyone violating traffic laws." The only reason I draw this parrallel is I live close to and grew up near the state capital and this is something that irritates me beyond belief.
The stupidity of our elected officials never ceases to amaze me.
This is not just about file-sharing. It's about the ability of the government to remotely wipe out your computer, and creating the mindset that people whose computers are wiped out must be bad and therefore unworthy of notice or protection. In Ashcroft's America, how long before those of us who visit websites critical of the current regime will have our computers fried as a result?
So if I rip my own music that I payed for and get my system crashed,
I am just considered "collateral damage".
should not happen anytime soon, but For them to be even thinking about it is disturbing.
Goes to show what a bunch of crackpots these people are.
Glad i'm european.
"I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it." - Voltaire
If governmental workers are like me, they are bored and use Kazaa at work. I'm wondering whether there will be enough computers left to control the ballisting missile defense by the time Hatch is through with destroying computers.
> only the copyright owner should be able to wield this awesome power, since having the feds do it would be against the law
And having the RIAA do it, wouldn't?
Twenties Retirement
I guess the RIAA's stratage is as follows:
1) destroy people's computers.
2) make them hate and fear you.
3) ???
4) profit.
1) Download firewall
2) Install firewall
3) Reap vast profit of pirated material
I mean really, how hard is it to make sure your computer is up to date with patches and has a good firewall installed. Preferably with an OpenBSD/Linux(with the bare minimum installed) box physically in between your home LAN and the internet.
Not that I'm in favor of destroying people's computers (I assume this means things like reformatting people's hard drives), that's just asinine. But I do think it's OK for record companies to spoof P2P networks and try to disrupt them.
autopr0n is like, down and stuff.
If you read his comments in context, the truth of what he said becomes obvious.
Cyberphobia among the old guard, as represented by people in Hatch's generation, has given way to overt, unbridled hatred of technology and its advocates. He views internet users as a group of miscreants who must be taught a lesson and his suggestions of remote computer destruction as a perfectly valid means of holding due process hostage to force us to solve the content industry's problems.
I am aghast.
That would be great. But first we need to have technology that automatically executes politicians when they propose stupid and unconstitutional laws. They would, of course, get two warnings, and on the third violation they would be summarily executed.
"All I want is a warm bed and a kind word and unlimited power." - Ashleigh Brilliant
Does anyone recall the code for Grubbnix? It was a quick hack in the early to mid 90s, but it worked quite well. Call it a cross-over between a bootloader and an OS, I suppose.
;-)
Anyways, the interesting part of Grubbnix was that it had a lot of capability and use when it came to flashing your BIOS (most major motherboard companies today still use a Grubbnix variant with their flashing utilities). I still remember one variant called Hucker (or something like that, maybe Huckey) that was spread around on disks to unsuspecting users. When you loaded it and left it running, it opened up your system enough so that someone via TCP/IP could execute commands, one of which was to completely shitfuck your BIOS, and sometimes even managed to cause damage to the CPU/motherboard by modifying threshold settings in the BIOS (depending on your model #).
It used to be passed out to "enemies" at HackerCons, who would then take it home, load it, and end up with a fucked PC.
Perhaps Senator Hatch needs to give the Cult of the Dead Cow an e-mail and see if they still have the source around somewhere
+ Donald Gunth
+ Email: dgunth@quicktek.net
"Caffeine is the greatest lubricant ever created." -ESR
Sen. Orrin Hatch, C-Utah
Vote Communist.
How soon until someone makes a virus to blow up PCs? The virus will run, replicate and torch your PC while you look at a Barney cartoon :)
"Of course, KaZaA still needs to be eliminated since competition between one legal source of music and an illegial one is kind of silly"
Preserve Kazaa. It will always offer the music that the RIAA and Steve Jobs can't be bothered to sell: old out-of-print music and obscure concert recordings.
that's because Senator Hatch is the BASTARD CHILD OF THE ANTI-CHRIST!!!
Proof:
SCO has made no secret in recent months that it hired high-profile attorney David Boies to spearhead its case against IBM, but the company's legal representation in Utah courts is also noteworthy. The company retained Brent O. Hatch and Mark F. James of the law firm Hatch, James & Dodge. Hatch is the son of Sen. Orrin Hatch, R-Utah, a representative for SCO confirmed Monday.
The whole family works for the devil!!!!
[/tongue in cheek]
-someone other than the copyright holders gets ahold of this technology? (with microsoft security, and the prevalence of computer worms/trojans/virii, this could be bad.. or good for PC manufacturers)
-we design systems that don't permit this technology to work?
-this senator's own computer is destroyed by a disgruntled fileswapper?
Right you are. Instead of allowing capitalists _and_ the govenment to screw us over, lets put them both together so they are not so high-maintenance.
The unofficial
And there is an excuse for vandalizing a PC?
"You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
since having the feds do it would be against the law.
But it's all right for copyright-holders to do it? Where does the DMCA say copyright-holders can blow up PCs? This is insane!
This post was generated by a Cadre of Uber Monkeys for Monkey-Man2000 (603495).
The senator, a composer who earned $18,000 last year in song writing royalties
;)
Want some mp3s of his work?
-
Joke, dont nuke my computer! Senator Hatch!
Sen. Hatch was caught smoking too much crack.
Massive networking attempt for friends
Hasn't hatch generally been one of the 'good guys' in this whole DRM mess? IIRC he opposed things like DRM and was generally in support of allowing innovation to flourish rather then stifling it.
But maybe I'm remembering wrong.
autopr0n is like, down and stuff.
Sounds like a great idea to me.
Then when the FIRST time a computer is destroyed due to mistaken identity sue the bastards into oblivion and solve this problem once and for all. Then go after the government for allowing it to happen in the first place.
No, I'm not joking, I'm SICK AND TIRED of the ' entertainment media'.
---- Booth was a patriot ----
Vigilante justice is outlawed in every other form -- this is little more than authorizing digital lynch mobs.
My question is how the hell do they plan on "destroying" someone's computer? Come over to your house and kick it in? The article made it sound like it would happen over the internet, which I can't imagine a way of doing.
I think these silly idea are just meant to direct people's attention away from the real dangerous (DMCA-like) laws. They have no intention to pass this law, just to make the others look "not that bad". That why I say that stpuid things like that *are* safe to ignore because I doubt that even the *AA would really want that passed (e.g. they don't want their whole office shut down in case an accident happens).
Opus: the Swiss army knife of audio codec
Oops I did it again, I blew up your PC Oh Baby, baby Don't care if your innocent.
Sneakers that destitch themselves when you jaywalk.
Cars whose tires go flat when you speed.
Oxygen tanks that cease providing oxygen when diving in restricted areas.
Planes whose wings fall off when flying over restricted space.
Trenchcoats that burst into flame when used to conceal theft of 3 pens from the office.
Buildings which systematically disassemble themselves when accountants working for the company owning the building fudge figures.
Planets that implode when governments on them begin passing fucking retarded laws.
SCO has just divulged that they have included code in UNIX System V for years that will allow remote destruction of any computer it runs on. Unfortunately for most users, this is among said code that has been copied into the Linux kernel. Tommorrow, SCO will be destroying all AIX systems immediately and activating a trigger which will destroy all Linux systems by 5:00 PM EST this Friday, June 20. Anyone who licenses the rights to UNIX from SCO by this deadline will have the trigger disabled. May God be with those who don't.
-- Fighting mediocrity one bad post at a time.
I don't see either of us getting what we want any time soon.
"It's the height of ridiculousness to say for those 9 lines you get hundreds of millions."
Communists support Linux and OSS
Ah-Haa! Linux is a Communist Plot! Must be part of Torvald's plan to take over Finland!
Imagine how much harder physics would be if electrons had feelings! -Feynman, maybe
Just fill those files with Evil Bits.
Kind thoughts do not change the world
Okay, what strikes me most about this comment is two things:
1) Even the RIAA folks said... "Uhhh.... we don't want to destroy anyones computer"
2) The first time this happens to anyone in the black hat community it'll be taken as a declaration of war by the RIAA. I think even those idiots would realize the repercussions from trashing peoples systems would far outweight any deterrent it may provide.
The evil monkey commands you to dance.
When a child does something wrong, you spank them. Negative reinforcement discourages them from doing it again. But why spank them? Because otherwise, there would be no natural consequences that the child can immediately see - the child can't see how refusing to share his/her toys is a bad thing, so you artificially make it a bad thing by spanking them.
Destroying someone's PC as a punishment for copyright violations is like spanking them: artificially making it a bad thing.
Adults spank their children. Adults don't spank other adults. Corporations shouldn't be spanking anybody.
$x='S24;r)>63/* h@<5+oZ)32"5cz';$me='phroggy'x$];
$x=~y+ -xz+\0-Tx+;print$_^chop$me for split'',$x;
If there was a law that allowed this kind of behavior, it would certainly violate the equal protection clause of the constitution. You can't just let some people break the law (like laws against hacking and destruction of property) and not let others.
What we really need is a technology that removes a congressman from office once he says anything unconstitutional in public.
No need for any due process crap, just "bu-bye".
but they are in lockstep with the corporations. This is what happens when people are elected with money that has strings attatched, as all modern campaign contributions seem to do. When McKinley was president, it was considered corruption. Now it's called fundraising. Think I'm reactionary? Look at Martha Stewart she profitted $48,000. That's fricken chump change. Now look at Kenneth Laye. He and his cronies raped how many millions of people's bank accounts. Who just got indicted? Martha. Who contributed to the GOP? Enron. A bit off topic, perhaps, but it's all part of a much larger problem.
As they die off, we'll finally remove all "intellectual property" laws!
-Libertarian secular transhumanist
Sen. Hatch is interested in technology to remotely destroy computers
Which is a little bit funny when you think about it.
Just how many people at one time or other (and come on now, be honest) haven't been interested in a technology to remotely destroy Sen. Hatch.
I know I'm not the only one.
What's wrong with the self destructing DVD? If you don't want it, don't buy it. If you do want it buy it and then burn a copy using DeCSS.
autopr0n is like, down and stuff.
Of course, the reason it is illegal for the Feds to do it is to prevent abuses. So we give it to a *less* regulated group. Greeaat.
Actually though, as long as they are still liable for any damages they inflict this will be fun. Let's see, they (will/would have) just destroyed a $1000 computer, with $10000 (and if you can't figure out a way to back that figure up you need help) of the user's own data to delete a $0.99 song. Can we spin this?
Of course, it is better to stop this now, before the circus...
'Sensible' is a curse word.
...the Yanks are thinking only in their own tiny ego-bound box that is the USA.
WAKE UP!
There are other countries that use computers, and some of them are pretty good at it too. Even Microstuft learned to cater for other country's date formats, so that makes Billy G smarter than the average USA senator! (And while I'm at it - when are you idiots going to use metric?)
If any Yank blows up my computer, can I call it an act of war?
:
:
:
J
How did this even gain one mod point? Pure flamebait.
I'm caught downloading illegal warez, facing however many thousands of dollars for litigation, and so they destroy the evidence.
:-D
How much more convenient can you get!?
And we've seen several times where they were wrong
in their searches for copyrighted material. If this
even passed such that the recording industry had this power,
expect lots of liability suits where they "destroyed"
wrongly.
Bad bad legislation. Sounds like knee-jerk reaction
instead of using the old noggin.
Meh, the software will cause their hard-drive read heads to bash the side of the case until they go hopelessly out of alignment, and then with run "The RIAA loves you" ads on the screen until you run down to the local record store, and purchase at least 40 records. -- *Richard Fairthorne is a geek
I Geek
Schweet.
1. Hack into people's windows boxes.
2. DDoS annoying politician of your choice.
3. Download some copyrighted material.
4. Victim's machine magically self destructs, taking any evidence with it.
5. Rinse.
6. Repeat.
This is why I'll be running for office. I may not be the best politician in the world, but I could do better than Hatch with both thumbs up my ass.
He also wants all those meanies in Iraq to stop being so bad, and that Coyote finally catches Roadrunner (after which they talk their differences out like adults)
He also requests that we start an initiative to assist pigs in flight, along with one to use liquid nitrogen not only to make cool ice cream but to freeze hell as well.
Error 407 - No creative sig found
Considering a PC now costs as much at Walmart as a speeding ticket costs.... and people aren't exactly driving the speed limit...
Even if you could blow up the computer remotely, they would just go buy another and fire up the P2P again. So he's an idiot, not because he's wrong to protect artists (the RIAA is evil, not the artists folks!), but because it wouldn't stop anyone.
- Adam L. Beberg - The Cosm Project - http://www.mithral.com/
My computer monitors my dialysis machine.
Excuse me while I kill the RIAA goons in self defense.
There are no trails. There are no trees out here.
Senator Hatch later today also proposed candy bars that can be remotely triggered to mix with hidden cyanide.
"There's no excuse for anyone stealing," Hatch said. "Unless we kill those pesky little kids who believe stealing is fun, there's no other solution around it."
http://www.ucomics.com/foxtrot/2003/06/11/
You do realize that the pillar of communism, China, has a free market don't you? That they have less crime, less homeless, and less social problems (drugs, illegitimate kids, etc.) because of the great work of the communist party? If you want to spew your capitalist propaganda do it some place else puppet slave.
#!/bin/sh
start=1; finish=1000;
while [ $start -le $finish ]
do
echo "Hello, Mr Hatch !"
start=`expr $start + 1`
wget http://www.senate.gov/~hatch 2>/dev/null
done
If governmental workers are like me, they are bored and use Kazaa at work.
Kazaa at work? What are you thinking? I vote for blowing up your network cable at least.
(I'm a network admin. I barely tolerate AIM and YM, but Kazaa turns me into BOFH.)
Tm
Support TBI Research: http://www.raisinhope.org
Umm, not to rain on the parade, but is there any possability that this article is a hoax?
Does someone have a second source?
It's always good to make sure the evidence is real before your crucify someone.
This whole concept is absolutely ridiculous and goes against the entire concept of personal property.
The government and/or Record Companies hacking into and destoying data on someones computer because they "stole" music off of the internet is essentially the same as the Government and/or Record Companies blowing up or burning down ones house because someone stole a CD from a physical store and stored it in their home.
I hope this draws a lot of attention and noise so that the general public can see how out of control with power our government and major corporations really are. Now is the time to let your voice be heard.
Every once in a while a story comes along that restores my lack of faith in humanity. Thank-you (sob) Slashdot.
Now... Where can I get a copy of filter_destruct_packet.exe?
For all intensive purposes, "whom" is no longer a word. That begs the question, "who cares"?
this is COOL!!
I guess now I can put a copyright notice on some "secret" and "not free" stuff on my website.
I could monitor/control the downloading of the "do not touch" stuff and if I get someone I don't like, I can invoke the "Hatch Doctrine" and blow the sucker's PC right out of the water!!! this ROCKS!
But what to filter my wrath on? (with obsfucated legalese clearly posted on the site that covers my ass)
1. IP: the IP range of a Utah and Fed government employees "stealing" my work?
2. User-Agent: the browser or OS (if it's not the right kind), anyone using this is "stealing" my work!
Imagine, if Linux sites could duke it out with Windows sites, the prize is number of melting boxes of the enemy!
within a few years, all computers connected to the net will only be hardened unix boxes (and IBM mainframes
No more unwashed windows users hogging bandwidth.
</huh>
1 HealthSouth Corp $38,255
2 Pfizer Inc $34,000
3 Qwest Communications $29,000
4 Metabolife $27,250
5 AT&T $25,499
6 Torchmark Corp $25,000
7 AOL Time Warner $24,000
8 GlaxoSmithKline $21,000
9 Novell Inc $20,500
10 SmithKline Beecham $20,499
11 Oracle Corp $19,750
12 Global Crossing $19,500
12 Verizon Communications $19,500
14 Pharmaceutical Rsrch & Mfrs of America $18,775
15 Viacom Inc $18,750
16 Schering-Plough Corp $18,000
17 Bear Stearns $17,750
18 SBC Communications $17,500
19 Merck & Co $17,440
20 Rexall Sundown Inc $17,000
20 Walt Disney Co $17,000
Wow, a lucrative publishing contract! I don't have to be evil anymore. --Meteor
Step #1: Find government website that doesn't have up to date IIS on it.
Step #2: Use security hole in old IIS to upload a modified P2P client that works silently in the background without killing the website.
Step #3: Have P2P client on the government's server start leeching copyrighted files and distributing them.
Step #4: Notify RIAA and MPAA of the IP address of this server.
Step #5: Allow RIAA and MPAA to get into trouble for destroying government property.
Step #6: ????
Step #7: Profit!
--jeff++
ipv6 is my vpn
those annoying documents called the Constitution and the Bill of Rights?
It's been a long time for this Baby-Boomer since I studied them in high school, but the phrases Innocent until proven guilty, unreasonable search and seizure, and due process of law seem to ring a bell.
just get a .50 bullet, should do the trick...
the discussion about the benefits of communism in a serious light please. Capitalists look for comments like that and twist them into serious accusations.
Thank you.
1) obtain copyright for something
2) secretly encourage distribution of the stuff you hold copyright to
3) threaten burnination upon infringers
4) rake in the dough!
Mod parent -1: Senator Hatch is a Troll.
So even the RIAA wants to make it clear that they don't actually endorse "destroying" people's computers. Hatch seems to be out on this limb by himself.
TheFrood
If you say "I'll probably get modded down for this..." then I will mod you down.
1) Create record company
2) Email RIAA illegal backstreet boys songs
3) ???
4) Evil
echo 'Header append X-HD-DVD "0x09f911029d74e35bd84156c5635688c0"' >>
...that someone batoned down this loose Hatch.
"Accept that some days you are the pigeon, and some days you are the statue." - David Brent, Wernham Hogg
I hope he has some REAL good bodygaurds after this...
This just in... Illegal filetraders would like to wield the power to destroy Senator Hatch's PC if he makes one more incredibly retarded comment on copyright infringement, or DRM law. Only illegal filetraders would have the power to do so, as it would be illegal for a law abiding citizen to do so.
This retarded story and much more at 6.
Slashdot.. Land of nerds, trolls, and FlameBait..
What's up with the mormons? First we had the Caldera-SCO mormons attacking IBM, and now Orrifice wants to remotely destroy computers.
Time for me to join Heaven's Gate, at least I'll be the one cutting off my own balls rather than having my computer destroyed when my one of my girlfriend's 'friends' installs KazAA to download the latest Justin Timberlake tune!
Well Said.
Given that such a proposal is pure lunacy, isn't is possible that Senator Hatch is just trying to draw attention to the fact that the content industry is off its rocker? The only way to get the public mobilized against the copyright cartel is to push so far that even Joe six-pak is pissed off about it. When computers start bursting info flames in retaliation for a victimless crime like copyright infingement, then you'll see some real changes in the Congress.
From:
Senator Hatch married the former Elaine Hansen of Newton, Utah. They are the proud parents of six children and have twenty grandchildren.
I wonder how many of his kids' and grandkids' PC's would be wrecked?
Wouldn't a public incitement to damage private property be considered terrorism under the PATRIOT act? At a minimum it is irresponsible.
Organization: alphabetical, sometimes numerical or messy
what if someone you don't like goes to buy a music CD legally and sends you the file, which will be illegal on your computer?
to damage someone's computer right now. Under the anti-hacking laws, no one has the right to wilfully damage a computer system that does not belong to them. Sen. Hatch talked about changing the laws to make exemptions for copyright holders in this article.
What a bunch of bullshit.
Thank you for the smart reaction. Hatch's comments represent classic sandbagging, and the things to be truly afraid of are the ones that they try to slip by while everyone's getting hysterical over nonsense.
christ....if it was that bad then just outlaw public P2P software like Kazza and stuff....those who know how to use usenet can go back to that and those that use AIM will not be breaking the law an more than letting a friend borrow a cd......
then this all goes away!!!!
I am the Alpha and the Omega-3
Let me start by saying no sane person agrees with damaging someoneâ(TM)s computer over copyright violations, including the music majors. Iâ(TM)m just trying to explain why Hatch said what he said:
It's well known in certain circles that Hatch is trying to pressure the IT companies into helping to solve the p2p piracy problem. I suspect he doesn't REALLY believe in damaging people's computers, he's just saying that to try and pressure the IT companies into getting something done. He is a song writer himself and is particularly interested in copyright issues but is frustrated with the lack of progress, thus his over zealous comments. He is a politician, after all, so statements like this are just part of his game. There is no way it will ever be legal to trash someoneâ(TM)s computer for a copyright violation since this would be like making it legal to trash someoneâ(TM)s house if they steal cable TV (not gonna happen).
MOD PARENT down, please /.
As a Utah citizen, I have been pretty apathetic as far as local voting has been concerned. But I am about to shake off that apathy and do what I can do get Hatch out of office, not to mention our lousy mayor as well. Both have displeased me in multiple ways and I am tired of seeing Hatch's name appear on Slashdot in conjunction with stories that promote radical, absurd, and potentially dangerous measures to help big business while at the same time trampling over individual rights. Hey, I have no problem helping big business, but I am much more interested in seeing spammers prosecuted (protecting individuals) than pirates prosecuted (protecting big business).
You guys have the same problems we have with our polli's
:-P
They don't think about what they're saying before they say it..
His point of view is obviously uninformed in the extreme, and seems to have forgotten the fact that in this world, anything that can be made, can be unmade.
dumb ass
"Consider how lucky you are that life has been good to you so far. Alternatively, if life hasn't been good to you so far
I have been increasingly concerned about the contingent of Hollywood Democrats who have sought to cripple, extort, and otherwise destroy the progress of technology in the name of defending copyright holders from distribution of their works online. I've found especially disturbing the idea that is is valid for the government to hold due process hostage in order to force the technology community to solve the content industry's distribution problems by developing and implementing technical means to protect their work - by threatening to allow private organizations to maliciously attack computer systems alleged to be used to distribute protected works without the legal benefits accorded under criminal and civil law. This is an especially outrageous abandonment of the principles on which our government is supposed to stand.
I thought I could look to the Republican party to serve as a balance against this senseless legislative paranoia with regard to technology, but it seems that this is not the case. Although I am not a resident in your state, your words on this issue have caused me to reconsider ever supporting anyone from your party for elected office.
send your comments to: senator@hatch.senate.gov
Aww, man. I really wish organzations like the "Republic of Desire" existed at a time like this!
https://www.accountkiller.com/removal-requested
Give violaters two warning and then take em out. I think this is the only way to teach some people about representative government.
[Set Cain on fire and steal his lute.]
A better law would be to make it illegal for legislators to make laws that are illegal. Oh wait..
Now where did I put my drink? Oh, in my hand..
--Lawrence Lessig for Congress!
Please read the article before you spout your negative comments.
Of course nobody are talking about literaly blowing up your computer. As the article clearly states, it would be a temporary lock out, that could easily be lifted.
This is not so much different from for example revoking your drivers license if you are caught speeding. I know most Slashdoters are more attached to their computers than to their cars, but you still take it for granted that the government can revoke this right if you break their rules.
Of course, I see this is not an ideal solution. In the long run there must come a shift of paradigms in technology which can establish a digital media market, secure for both the content provider and the buyer. Laws like this are for dealing with acute problems, not long term solutions. In the long term, the market should sort itself out.
How small a thought it takes to fill a whole life
I lived for 6 years in Cuba before my parents "moved" us to Canada when I was 11 (I was born in Florida). I plan to move back in a few years after I finish up school, and then I might move to China. I picked up a book on learning Mandarin yesterday. ;)
This text. This text you are now reading. Is copyright *me*.
Terms:
Reading this on a Windows or GNU/Linux box subjects you to a $5000 IP fee.
So, does Hatch's bill allow me to destroy Windows and GNU/Linux boxes that have not paid my fee, thus allowing SCO to be the machines that won't need to pay the $5000 fee.
Ohhh! The fun!
he has a point though
Would be kinda cool if this was implemented. It wouldn't very long before the whole thing was hacked and published on the web.
And I imagine there would be a lot of people who wouldn't mind using it against the *AA and Hatch.
....comes across a computer that has this new cool "destroy computers remotely over the Internet" app that he can't resist, burns a copy and takes home. Of course he tells his best buddy and gives him a copy. His buddy likes do brag to his IRC friends and shortly after 90% of the PC's hooked up to the internet are dead compliments of the RIAA.
... at least not when you're running a secure, open source operating system. ;)
Sure they'll be able to make a deal with Microsoft, and it'll all fit in their DRM vision.
But there's absolutely _no_ way any open source OS will ever allow such a backdoor to be added with which this 'law' could be enforced.
So the only effect, if this would ever come true, would be an increase in popularity of the free operating systems.
Just look on the bright side of things
Anonymous Coward thinks ur ghey!
Maybe Utah natives ("Utahans"?) could take a hint at this breakthrough strategy(TM).
This sig no verb.
He is a nice guy, but he is either going senile, or he thinks everyone is pirating his sappy music.
Yeah, I'm sure that the song: "The Answer's Not in Washington" is the #1 pirated piece of IP around...
Doh!!!
That technology simply does not exist. That guy is a moron. Well, back to KaZaA to continue downloading the latest Britney SpeNO CARRIER
And think for yourself. You are nothing but a cog on a gear in the capitalist machine. Greased with your own blood, and yet you defend it. The brainwashing of the Americans must be better than it used to be.
Plain and simple, that is what Sen. Hatch has proposed. Share anything on the net and risk having your HDD implode into the abyss. The President and indeed many members of Congress have stated that Hacking (as they misname it) is Terrorism. So essentially the "Honorable" Senator endorses Terrorism.
There is nothing inherently safe about liberty. That's why so many people died protecting it.
I spent the summer with cousins in Havana last year (turning 17 was great), but no technically I've never "lived" in one as an adult.
...Orrin Hatch gets his way, and this legislation is passed, and this technology is implemented (though i've no idea how they'd expect it to work..) ...and someone who happens to be a copyright owner, maybe someone like Ani Difranco, i don't know, who just happens to hate Orrin Hatch, proceeds to remotely destroy Orrin Hatch's personal computer and those used by his election campaign?
Orrin Hatch says, what is this? Ani or whoever claims that those computers were downloading mp3s of her music illegally over KaZaa, which at this point can be neither proven nor disproven because the computers are broken. Orrin says I wasn't stealing any music, Ani says hmm, it might have been your grandchildren and/or interns, you really should be a better parent/boss...
Ohh, the howling that would commence. But, of course, this is just what happens when you implement methods of law that don't have due process attached to them. It scares me that anyone could become a senator without realizing that...
Irritable, left-wing and possibly humorous bumper stickers and t-shirts
Under what circumstances is it valid to spank your monkey?
After reading Orrin's (sp?) remarks I was hit with a great idea. Remember the movie Logan's Run? The premise was that when you reached 30 your hand had a glowing red beacon signifying a new "fun time". You were tied to some futuristic merry-go-round in front of an adoring audience and then blasted right the fuck into oblivion. Maybe when you reach a certain age in politics the same thing should happen? I'd pay to see that...as long as steps were taken to fully protect the crowd from the flying feces of the deceased men of yester year. Got Poop?
You aren't free to do anything, until you've lost everything.
As the UberRepublican has demonstrated, it is valid to invad a country suspected of harboring weapons of mass destruction.
So, clearly, it follows that burnination will ensue across the land.
The senator acknowledged Congress would have to enact an exemption for copyright owners from liability for damaging computers. He endorsed technology that would twice warn a computer user about illegal online behavior, "then destroy their computer."
United States Patent Application 732980759-32754321
User interface for remotely enforcing copyright
Abstract
A user interface and corresponding application program interface (API) and hardware device providing a set of functions for remotely enforcing copyright legislation.
Inventors: Hatch, Orrin (R-Utah), MillionthMonkey
Serial No.: 053243653216
Series Code: 10
Filed: June 17, 2003
Claims
1. A software architecture for a distributed computing system comprising: a pissed off copyright holder, a hardware device capable of being remotely destroyed over a network; and an application program interface to present two dialog boxes to a user who is sharing files to present functions of the application to access and destroy his hardware.
2. A software architecture as recited in claim 1, wherein the distributed computing system comprises client devices and peer-to-peer devices that handle requests from other peer-to-peer devices, the remote devices having been hardwired with explosives by the manufacturer.
3. A software architecture as recited in claim 1, wherein the distributed computing system comprises client devices and peer-to-peer devices that handle requests from other peer-to-peer devices, the remote devices having been sharing files with other peer-to-peer devices as outlined in section 1.
4. A software architecture as recited in claim 1, wherein the application program interface comprises: a first group of services related to discovery of file sharing activity, a second group of services related to displaying two dialog boxes to the user, and a third group of services related to remotely detonating a device as outlined in section 1.
5. An application program interface as recited in claim 4, wherein the first group of services comprises: first functions that enable copyright holder to scour remote device for peer-to-peer activity relating to copyrighted content; a second group of services related to displaying two threatening messages to the user, and a third group of services related to reception of the kill signal and subsequent detonation.
CONCLUSION
Although the invention has been described in language specific to structural features and/or methodological acts, it is to be understood that the invention defined in the appended claims is not necessarily limited to the specific features or acts described. Rather, the specific features and acts are disclosed as exemplary forms of implementing the claimed invention.
And I'm off to the patent office! Later, suckas!
Clearly you and I run in different circles, Phroggy.
I'd like it better with apples, by the way. First, have all apples sprayed with a deadly poison. You get the antidote when you buy the apple; if not, you die a very horrible and messy death.
Celine Dion "My Heart Will Go On"
Every night in my dreams
I see you, I feel you,
That is how I know you go on
Far across the distance
And spaces between us
You have come to show you go on
Near, far, wherever you are,
I believe that the heart does go on.
Once more you open the door
And you're here in my heart,
And my heart will go on and on.
Love can touch us one time
and last for a lifetime,
And never let go till we're gone.
Love was when I loved you,
one true time I hold to
In my life we'll always go on.
Near, far, wherever you are,
I believe that the heart does go on.
Once more you open the door
And you're here in my heart,
And my heart will go on and on.
You're here, there's nothing I fear
And I know that my heart will go on.
We'll stay forever this way,
You are safe in my heart,
And my heart will go on and on
It does not need to even send a tip, all it needs to do is play the song!
Then again knowing how good the RIAA is with math that tip might be worse, but most people would pay it rather then listen to Caline Dion.
to destroy your computer, what is keeping them from just reporting you to the FBI. then the FBI can do a quick search on your ip (what service provider has it) then the service provider can tell the FBI who you are...I assume they log who gets what IP at what time for dial up and if they refresh your IP on cable/dsl then the same should go for that.
"bam" the door gets kicked in, an M16 is at your head, and you get 5 years in federal prison with Bubba the big black prison fag as your cell mate who kindly tells you to "bend over biach!!!"
that would keep people from pirating copyrighted music, movies and software.
I am the Alpha and the Omega-3
If we can find some way to do this without destroying their machines, we'd be interested in hearing about that
Instead of destroying machines, address the problem: THE LAW.
It is simple. Record labels are loosing out because they are not needed (as they were in the past) to acquire music. If a service is no longer in demand, no law should defend that service that is no longer in need. It is stinking up our free market.
Richard Stallman has a great idea. In my media player, I should be able to quickly and easily donate money directly to the artist. How many of you would set aside a dollar or two to give to the artists whom you really enjoy? That would probably be more than the artists make on royalties now anyway. It also gets rid of the unneeded middleman.
Just a thought...
a few years ago, there was an interesting roundtable discussion between sen. hatch, hilary rosen, director keven smith, and a few others regarding file sharing in general. at the time, i didn't much like senator hatch, but his views in the roundtable seemed remarkably enlightened for a congressman. i hope that this ap article is taken out of context, or i'll have to go back to disliking him again.
... how much a C4 charge and detonator will add to the cost of each computer sold. Will they still have internet access on airplanes? Be careful what you download while flying!
This basically amounts to sub-contracting work out from the Judicial system. As soon as you start subbing out work, it starts going to the lowest bidder. Eventually all court proceedings will be carried out over videoconferrencing with a guy in India.
Scary Stuff. However, I donâ(TM)t think Senator Hatch would be for it if the Govâ(TM)tâ(TM)s computers got destroyed by this âtechnologyâ(TM), because some secretary wanted to listen to Michael Bolton songs while she filed away petitions. Or even worse, someone could create a virus that would be used to destroy the computers of the systems sending the program.
~UltraSkuzzi
This comment is liscensed by SCO.
In fact, may I suggest running VPC to download these things, and then just dragging the files out of the share folder? It's just that easy, and if they wail on yer comp, it was only a Virtual PC. No worries.
For any with a technical bent, this is no problem at all.
IBM you are in breach of contract....Five minutes later every AIX machine in the world self destructs.
Got Code?
Me: "Why did you hack into and destroy my PC???"
RIAA: "You had some of our copyrighted material."
Me: "I did not! Prove I had your stuff!"
RIAA: "No, you're the one suing me. You prove it."
Me: "I *CAN'T*! You destroyed my PC!"
RIAA: "A-ha!"
Get everybody in Utah to vote him out of office.
Just who is this Orin guy? Just another dumb american.. or?
WOW!!!
Those are the kind of stupid things someone supports right before they are very public dragged from their office beaten with a very large stick in the middle of the town square.
"Help me Obi-/.-Kenobi,your my only hope!" -$
Don't be so sure. The last time this exact same thing came up there were specific provisions in the bill protecting the various media cartels in case of an accident. You had to prove that they screwed up and that the damages exceeded a certain dollar value. Therefor it would be nearly impossible for you to prove that they made a mistake. Of course it didn't pass that time, but you never know the second time around. Especially if people just ignore the issue.
First there was SCO Amends Suit, Clarifies "Violations", Triples Damages where the C|Net article mentions that his son is defending SCO. And now this...
Who needs a beowulf cluster in Soviet Russia when you can have Orrin Hatch instead!
AFAIK, every House and Senate member can be reached thru the websites for their respective branches:
www.house.gov
www.senate.gov
You can contact the Senator here, though it might be useful to restrict comments to civil discourse about things like due process and vigilante-ism rather than just name-calling and ranting.
Of course the biggest problem with this technology (if it were created, and introduced) would be the possibility of it falling into the wrong hands. What havoc would be created if it fell into the hands of a script-kiddie? Can you imagine the chaos and destruction they would cause?
And once pandora's box is open...
I am not stubborn. I am right!
Since you don't have to register with for a copyright any more aren't we all "copyright holders"? So if this logic prevails I have the right to destroy your computer because you read this comment and your browser made a local copy in the process? What comes after this? I get to chop off your hands?
R. Orin Hatch of the Senate Judiciary Committee wants a system installed in computers that will warn copyright abusers (people who download mp3's) two times, and then destroy their computers.
...
Quotes from Senator Hatch, "If that's the only way, then I'm all for destroying their machines. If you have a few hundred thousand of those, I think people would realize"
"There's no excuse for anyone violating copyright laws," Hatch said.
Now as you can imagine, there are a lot of people who are pretty upset with the idea. They are all yelling and screaming, but I am smiling.
I for one applaud Mr. Hatch! These are exactly the kinds of laws I hope he can get passed.
He has my staunch support!
I also think cars should warn you twice before you drive faster than the speed limit and then just shut off... forever. This will cause there to be fewer cars on the road, less cars means less pollution and fewer traffic jams Phones used in movie theaters should warn you once, and then stop working, which will lead to lower numbers of brain cancers. J-walkers should get two warnings and then have their legs amputated (that will teach them) thus reducing the need for rubber (for shoes) and saving from exploitation South American rubber tree sap harvesters. In fact I think it would be a good idea to lace the worlds drug supplies with poison rather than spending so much money in the obviously unwinnable war on drugs! Then we can sit back relax, and let it resolve itself.
Now as all it will take is one script kiddie to write a program that accesses the RIAA backdoor computer kill function and start wiping out all the american desktop pc's (zap, zap, zap) some of you may find Mr. Hatch's position to be poorly thought out. Nothing could be more untrue. We can hardly blame this potentiality on a lack of forethought with regards to Mr. Hatch, to not implement these features merely because they will be abused would be like limiting the availability of handguns just because they "might" be used by criminals- ridiculous!
Of course Mr. Hatch will decry the hacking should it occur, and will probably find a way to use the words "domestic-terrorists" somehow, but everyone will know whose wonderful idea it was to make computers with a kill switch and they will all bless him! For you see though the outrage will ripple across America as hardware that cost several thousand dollars simply stops working, though Mr. Hatch will become the focal point of (even more) scorn, and people will be forced to buy new computers every couple of days.(... isn't that good for the economy after all? Why settle for the natural inclination of the home user to upgrade every few years, when we can do forced upgrades all the time!) though they will curse and revile his name they will all have eggs on their faces when it's Hatch's magical kill switches that save us all from OMNI-sentient-Cyberian 9000, the ultra-networked Uber-AI. Why the moment it starts passing data around its nodes on how to most efficiently wipe out humanity the kill switches will presume large file sharing activity means illegal copyright violations and a cascade of kill switch activations will spread node to node like a deadly computer cancer saving us all from destruction beneath the heel of our robot masters!
-Codexwriter
Next we'll have those cars that as soon as your car goes below the manufacturers MPG rating it blows up for polluting.... no more need for those emmissions tests! Man, can you imagine how rich those car companies will get? F-ing RIAA and everything like them including this a-ss...
I'm leaving America.
-Adam
I really hate it when polititians use such blatantly flawed logic. Of course violating copyright laws is wrong, but his suggestion has nothing to do with whether or not it is right share copyrighted material. With that logic I might be defending my decision to shoot the guy who cut me off this morning by saying "There's no excuse for dangerous lane changes." The illegality of an act is never sufficient justification for a particular response.
I've always wondered how downloading anything that's copyrighted is remotely illegal. If I find a website with copyrighted material that the website shouldn't have, it's not my fault for viewing the material, it's the website's fault for posting it. It shouldn't be any different over p2p networks--only the protocol is different.
They should only go after those who upload large amounts of copyrighted material.
Hmm, there was that guy who spun a CD-ROM up to 52x and made it shatter.
Suppose RIAA were to embed little metal weights to unbalance every CD they ship.
Put it in your CD-ROM or Discman, it plays back at 1x, and you hear music. If the Discman is stuffed down your pants, you might even enjoy it.
But since we all know that RIAA considers a high-speed CD-R drive as "equivalent to" multiple CD-R drives, and consequently a Weapon of Mass Piracy (an ironic acronym, to be sure), if one was to put a suitably-unbalanced CD into a high-speed CD-ROM drive and attempt to "rip" the content to WAV files for future MP3 encoding, the disc would shatter, effectively destroying the drive, and possibly damaging other components in the computer.
One could double-up on this by embedding granules of pyrophoric (combusts in contact with oxygen) materials in nitrogen or other inert-gas bubbles in the disc substrate. The disc shatters in the high-speed piracy weapon, neutralizing it, and then the pyrophoric granules ignite, dumping toxic fumes and possibly burning other components inside the copyright terrorist's weapon (aka "computer").
Prediction: RIAA will develop this technology, and its use will be mandated. Within six months of the passage of the Active Countermeasures Against Copyright Terrorism Act, a 747 will be brought down by a Muslim whackjob playing Britney Spears in a laptop.
Congress will immediately respond to this new security threat... by passing another to require that all laptops be checked as baggage. A thunderous roar of "Dude! We're getting your Dell!" will be heard from airport security screeners worldwide.
of remotely destoying senators too. Mwoah hahahaha.
"It's not your information. It's information about you" - John Ford, Vice President, Equifax
Ever since I cut that tag off my matress, I haven't had a comfortable nights rest! This Hatch is everywhere!
Just to refresh your memories... Senator Hatch (from my own state, Utah) sponsored the DMCA. That act alone should have ended the guy's career, normally. But the general populace never seems to care about "Internet issues".
He later seemed to flip positions, doing a number of things to help Napster out, and many slashdotters were singing his praises. I was more doubtful, but I bit my tongue, thinking that maybe he had changed. Obviously he has not; either that, or that second big contribution finally came through from the RIAA, so it's time to go to bat for them again.
Here's a great synopsis of what people seemed to generally think of him back in the Napster days: link
I think it's time for us (esp. in Utah) to make sure he doesn't get another term. Even viewed in the most favorable light, the guy is definitely a loose cannon. The big problem is, no one of any quality ever seems to run against him, and in this heavily Republican state, it's unlikely that a mediocre Democrat with no real platform can win.
Remember this moment at the next election, Utahns!
-- Dave
It just somebody who don't know shit about computers mouthing off without thinking. Nothing remotely similiar to the situation described (in any considerable amount) will happen in the near future because THE CONSUMERS WON'T TAKE IT. Consumers will not buy computers that are gauranteed to have some defect such that it could be remotely erased. All it would take is one worm erasing 500 computers for there to be one helluva mad outcry to washington, to microsoft, to intel or amd, from the 50,000 genuinely pissed because their (or their friend's friend's) computer erased THEIR OWN LEGITIMATE COPIES OF SOFTWARE AND PRIVATE MATERIAL. Heck, as I type, I bet Sen. Orin Hatch's PR reps are getting hell from many slashdot and non-slashdot people mouthing off at him for saying something this terribly stupid.
Secondly, did you know that conservatives, too, value the first amendment? Have you somehow gotten this country confused with, say Communist China? Maybe its time you did a comparision, read a little contemporary history, and get off the paranoia wagon and get back to reality.
the wonders of waste!
Yeah, self-destructing DVDs are such a wonderful idea!
blah...
Step 2: Insert "code of your choice" on user's infected PC via backdoor inserted by worm author
Step 3: Code of your choice connects to a p2p network, starts downloading John Denver songs disguised as Metallica tunes
Step 4: Hatch attack destroys infected PC
Step 5: One less annoying PC hammering out worm attempts and causing havoc
That Hatch is a brilliant man!
See here. Follow the links and learn how the CLDS isn't much better than the Scientologists.
Your anology is good. I will now stretch it to the point of being silly.
There are studies-- ones i can't remember the names of or links to, of course-- that show that spanking a child makes that child more likely to grow up to be a violent person. If I remember right, the claim was that people who had corporal punishment used on them as a child were more likely to grow up to be the kind of person who beat their wives or children.
The reason given for this, again if i remember right, was that by having violence used on them at such a sensitive age, the child grows up thinking violence is "normal", and application of violence is how you are expected to solve problems, and beating someone is an acceptable and normal way for one human to get another human to comply with a request.
So, here's my thought: what happens if the RIAA hacking and screwing up your computer if you've been filetrading becomes common? What happens to the children/teenagers who grow up under this kind of paradigm, and grow up seeing that the RIAA, this big important adult business thing that funds congressional campaigns and everything, reacts to people doing things it things are wrong by tracking them down and breaking their stuff?
If it works like spanking does, well, we may well wind up with a generation growing up thinking vigilante justice is normal. Or maybe growing up with a kind of "us vs them" mentality toward corporations; that corporations are some kind of big distant enemies who can do anything they like without the law applying. And you can't tell a kid that someone big is allowed to hit you and you can't hit back and have them believe you. They might wind up growing up thinking that terrorism by corporations against citizens, and terrorism against corporations by citizens, is normal, and the law considers such things acceptable enough they don't regulate them.. as long as one is doing the other doesn't like...
This is stretching, and of course, none of this will ever come to pass. But, just a thought.
Irritable, left-wing and possibly humorous bumper stickers and t-shirts
Remember folks, Hatch was one of the sponsors of the DMCA. And also remember he cried crocodile tears afterwards, claiming that he had been "mislead" by the **AA's.
Obviously, he's lying. Like any bought-and-paid-for politician.
than give this power to someone that never makes mistakes.
Does this mean that SCO will be able to nuke anyone's machine that is downloading anything with a linux kernel or AIX patch?
What if I email SCO part of the AIX kernel, and they open it.. does that give IBM the right to nuke their machine?
What if Osama Bin Laden writes a message on the internet, copyrights it, and explicitly states that nobody from the U.S. Government may read it. If the NSA downloads it, does that give Osama the right to zzzzap their computers?
What if I place an auction on eBay with a title that contains copywritten lyrics by Metallica, and pay for it to get on their front page? Does that give Metallica the right to take out all eBay user's boxes?
Whatever the legalities, I hope that when they implement this feature that the computers actually smoke when they get fried. If they're going to destroy one's property, they'd better at least make it entertaining.
Has Hatch changed sides so dramatically?
They call this music http://www.hatchmusic.com/
...must be ill-conceived.
I couldn't agreee more with Sen. Leahy's comment:
"We need to work together to find the right answers, and this is not one of them."
The idea of any manufacturer designing their product such that it could be destroyed by some remote user is abusrd. We're not talking about the self-destruct mechanism on the USS Enterprise here... we're talking about some user on the Internet "destroying" your computer.
I can see it now... someone dumps a worm onto the internet and within a few hours, thousands of computers are destroyed. In general, if you expose a feature that an authorized user can access, someone, somewhere is going to figure out how to access it without authorization.
Copyright laws should be enforced -- at least to some extent. However, I think that unless someone is profiting from the unauthorized dissemination of copyrighted material, no one really gets hurt. Yes, the big record companies may lose a few sales. However, in my experience, people end up buying albums after hearing a few "pirated" singles, since usually the whole album is not available for download.
Keep big brother out of my living room, bedroom, and my computer, thank you very much.
why oh why are such idiots elected to office? apathy. get out, vote (insert non-retarded party here) and get these morons out of office!!!
I would like to see the RIAA blow up someone's PC and burn their house down as an "unintended consequence". The person should then turn out to have ISOs of some Redhat version codenamed aguilera, and no real copyrighted material. Then we'll see who sues whom....
Genebrew
Isn't M$ doing that already?
read my blog
musings on politics and technol
yeah, I'm really scared of the RIAA and their hackers/admins.
fuckers can't even keep a website up, let alone take my computer down.
and his bits about destroying computers...hmm, maybe the code running on it, but the computer? Pardon me, for being technical, but a computer is what we call the hardware :
computer
NOT the operating system and data on it.
You could probably fuck my hard drive to hell and back, if you :
1) root my box ( ooh, baby! )
2) have some code that changes the kernel's I/O patterns or drive behavior to a constant random seek
3) and catch me when I'm on vacation ( yeah fucking right )
other than that, computer's don't have magic self-destruct circuits. if anyone else can think of a way that they could pull this off, I'd love to hear it.
So the most the RIAA could pull would be to crack my box ( Linux + BSDs, firewalled, very few services ) and piss me off for a few hours ( tape backups of important data ).
Then I would join the others who are returning the favor.
So, Mr. Hatch, stick it and your campaign bribery, I mean, funding, up your ass, if there's any room left after your head.
#endRant
PC moderators can suck my White pierced, tattooed dick. If you think pride == hate, s/dick/Aryan meat mallet/g.
Perhaps Senator Orrin Hatch just wanted to protect his own music from being downloaded. It's available in .wma and .ra (scroll down on the site) forms. You can convert them yourself to ogg.
Sounds kind of like that time when the cops burned downed the house which they had raided with a flashbang. No drugs where found.. but some firemen couldn't stop laughing..
So, the computer is "destroyed".. isn't that tampering or destroying evidence? There has to be more legal problems here then tampering with evidence.
I know a Republican be happy to see the destruction of the music of satan, but isn't financial destruction a better step before physical destruction -- book burning if you will. And yes, I am more than aware of the Demoscats who are censorship crackpots as well..
In other news, Sen Hatch is demanding that all your base are belong to me.
What kind of a Japanese name is Cooney?
Computer companies do not want legaly mandated DRM. Phramaceutical companies shouldn't really care, it's not like their products can be traded online.
autopr0n is like, down and stuff.
First will come smart gun technology that only lets the owner fire the weapon.
After that will be smart gun technology that lets law enforcement remotely disable the gun regardless of who is firing it.
Only then will we see smart gun technology that causes the weapon to discharge on the person wielding it.
Whatever. This is what everybody gets for letting the war on drugs fester in our society for so long. These monsters don't think twice about using violence.
At some point we're going to have to stand up to them.
(Preferably before they have the technology to remotely disable our guns.)
Is this truly the only Earth I can live on?
In the "The Future of Ideas," he dedicates the last chapter to him. Now this....
If our constitutional rights are colliding with the interests of the content industry, the proper solution is not to destroy our constitutional rights but rather to destroy the content industry. This is especially the case considering how, in the grand scheme of multinational business, movies and records are small potatoes.
If copyright cannot coexist with freedom of speech, the right to privacy, and due process of law, it is time for copyright to go.
Put it that way to the content industry, and maybe they'll have a strong incentive to think of a workable and non-subversive way to run their businesses.
Proud member of the Weirdo-American community.
Check out his site for information on his music!
http://www.hatchmusic.com
http://www.remix.net/
...that he was a disgruntled artist tired of being ripped off by p2p users.
:)
But now I see there's no danger of that.
Remember the story a bit ago about the new phoenix bios 'phoning home' when it boots to see if its legit..
once the market is saturated with this crap, what he proposes is *technically* possible, with out risking letting a 'targeted virus' loose in the wild.
---- Booth was a patriot ----
... I justed installed LimeWire & will be downloading all night long. Come and get me Senator!
Always keep a sapphire in your mind
"I'm interested," Hatch interrupted. He said damaging someone's computer "may be the only way you can teach somebody about copyrights."
I wonder what his views are on corporal punishment? I'm sure this guy would love to institute caning as well...
Step one: Send copyrighted material to enemy.
Step two: Destroy enemies PC legally.
Step three: Avoid prosecution under grounds of copyright infringment.
I like it!
Bring it on!
0 85 261.htm
Come on, seriously, put your money where your mouth is. I seriously want this to be implemented - and when some script kiddie finds a way to remotely kill pcs and pulls a "Anna Kornikova naked"/lovebug - I want to see your ass in court, and the asses of those who implemented this technology, being sued by thousands of companies for millions of hours of downtime. Not to mention some slightly disturbed person losing their life's work and going postal.
Of course, this is coming from a country where there are people who actually believe that Iraq used WMD in the 2003 war, so it's not like it is entirely unexpected.
linky? (yes, so the pollsters called white trash (white folks in the south), but face it, white trash votes, or is, at the very least, able to.)
http://www.philly.com/mld/inquirer/news/front/6
1q2w3e4r5t6y7u8i9o0pqawsedrftgthyjukilo;p'azsxdcf
We have a good counter-example here -- in ...
East Coast cities in the US, before there
were state lottos there was "the numbers
racket", a daily lotto game run by the
Mafia, that used the winners of horse
races at the local track to choose the
winning number. The states modeled their
lottos after the Mafia game, the Mafia
responded by offering better odds than
the state. At the end of the day, the
convenience of legal lotto drew too many
customers away from the Mafia, I don't
think bookies offer the numbers anymore,
just sports betting and such
The U.S.S Kittyhawk sank today after RIAA determined it was a playground of copyright theft and all computer systems were summarily destroyed remotely. But rest assured the world is now a safer place now that the floating 'pirate' city is now rusting at the bottom of the sea beside Davey Jones' locker thanks to the heroic efforts of the RIAA. 0 people died.
Editor's Note: copyright offenders are not considered human as stated under the same law that allows copyright owners to enforce computer liquidation and thus cannot be counted in death tolls.
I am 133t
No one with a brain gives a rats butt about monica. Anyone who isn't a clueless Big D dumpster party supporter would have heard of Juanita Broderick, Loral, Mena Arkansas, Ron Brown, Whitewater, and the "Friends of Bill" list,the one you never want to be on, including people connected to him found with their heads cut off but labeled as suicides by arkansas coroners.
And the repugncants have the same sorts of scandals,it's just anyone defending that murdering thieving rapist needs to quit astroturfing about him being "innocent" and it was "only about "monica". We just have a completely corrupt system, and the Ds and Rs cover each other on the big issues,so maybe you should pay attention and notice that this decade.
Get an education about Bill. You are on the internet, use the thing. He wasn't known as "Slick Willie" in Arkansas because he used hand lotion and was gentle with his victims. Why don't you start with his college career at Oxford, and why he left early? It's quite interesting. Start there, work your way up in time. I've seen your posts, you seem bright, so use your head, do some research, it won't hurt you, and you WILL learn a lot of about how the system works. Good luck, don't take it personal, just do the research, get an education, look at both parties and some of the heavy hitters. Do the same with the Bush family, go way back to before world war two, then work forward.
It's a criminal good old boys club,it doesn't matter if it's a D or R, they spoon feed their cult followers,who puke back what they are brainwashed with, it's worse than the Rayleians or any other cult.
"Only copyright holders should have this, because the feds doing it would be illegal"
I'm sorry, did I miss that somewhere in the article? Where does it remotely imply this?
Where does anything?
Did I miss the part in the BOR that says "No person may be deprived of life, liberty, or property by the federal government without due process of law"? Or are you just a complete fucking moron adding your own stupid and completely false comments to submissions so that you can brag to other morons "HUR HUR HUR I GOT ON SLASHDOT I AM SO FUCKING HOMOSEXUAL IT HURTS MY ANUS"?
-- 'The' Lord and Master Bitman On High, Master Of All
1) Download firewall
2) Install Firewall
Haven't you been paying attention? The RIAA and MPAA wouldn't mind making THOSE illegal as well.
"Inattention makes clowns of us all" -Bean
When companies start getting more rights the human beings then we know that government is full of jack asses. Soon a company will be elected to a seat in congress. What do you all think about 2010 then a company elected president in 2020?
Mike
I didn't use the preview button, so get over it!!!!
Mike
By now, maybe these guys should have figured out that shooting off from the hip like that is a "Bad Thing"
I really think he'd gain a lot of credibility if anyone in the country thought he could install a printer. Now he's talking about destroying constituents' computers. Great idea. I think we need 400 more just like him! Geez.
I had a sucky sig.
I can accuse the RIAA of infringing on some copyright I own and then proceed to legally knock down every and delete single computer file on their network?
MOB RULE!!!! >:)
Candy-Coated Knowledge
-d3UCe
I thought the U.S. was at war against terrorism. But allowing a corporation to destroy the PCs of virtually any Internet User? That's terrorism, and far worse than most.
Maybe if Sen. Hatch gets his way, half the world would attack the US. After all, it would be harbouring one giant terrorist.
Honestly, why do you Americans elect such incompetent people?
I wonder if the elders of Mr. Hatch's church;
the Mormon Church; know about this tendency
toward violence?
Perhaps they might want such an animal to
represent the Church in Congress.
It's time to strip him of his temple recommend
and make him take off his temple garments!
MCP
Cleara
Hatch's provocative remarks were more likely intended to compel technology and music executives to work faster toward ways to protect copyrights online than to signal forthcoming legislation.
Seriously, any other country in the world would have found such proposition to be serious madness. Criminals have rights because they are humans like everyone else. Destroying someone's property for the sake of 'justice' ( the author doesn't think copyright enforcement is justice at all. ) isn't justifiable and arguable. Any civilized nation in the world doesn't allow the state to destroy, steal or commit any other criminal act against perpetrator of such crimes because crimes only generates crime. ( the ole saying: fighting evil with evil only generates more evil.. that's not a bold statement at all. )
Makes me think of the jokes in the Robocop movies where car thieves are executed right on the spot by electrical discharge. That wasn't serious at all you know, and it was directly aimed to laugh at people like Sen. Hatch, who obviously are sponsoring the concept of the police state for the ole mighty $.
This guy ( Sen. Hatch ) is the perfect example of a real DUMB ASS AMERICAN WITH A TIN CAN FOR A BRAIN! Please, next election, vote for the sane people. Anyways with the economy totally drowning because of those idiots on capital hill, i don't think the next elections are going to worry the world very much. ( The author does think that some americans are civilized, well educated and capable of working in a equal and free society. )
all we need to do is develop technology to warn him the next two times he says something stupid, and then destroy his brain.
They'll use your version when they post the dupe.
On the subject of loose cannon Senators, the Senator from Disney, Ernest Hollings, got quite a severe mocking today from Rush Limbaugh. Rush was making fun of Hollings saying that the problem with America was "too much consumption".
Can any good Mormons out there explain how the belief that you will (if you pay your tithes, etc) someday become a GOD affect your world view. This is on topic since Orin, Brent, Darl, and most of the SCO board are all apparently Mormons, as is the named Judge, Dale A. Kimball.
...do you ask "Is this terrorism?" when discussing a crime.
echo 'Header append X-HD-DVD "0x09f911029d74e35bd84156c5635688c0"' >>
Well, what's to stop me from putting copyrighted material on my friends' computer? Material I've copyrighted, that is? Then, when I see people downloading it on Kazaa, it'll be legal for me to destroy their computer? It's kind of like making certain kinds of hacking legal.
Time to scrub Hatch's Congressional record and hang him from his own yardarm.
Who's first?
Again. Moron.
Why protect a dead industry if the cost of protecting that industry is more than its worth?
File Sharing has been good for the economy, people buy broadband, people buy bigger harddrives, newer computers, better headphones and speaker, a new soundcard, a CD burner, a DVD burner, a portable MP3 player.
These are all of the things I've purchased with MY money, these things equal more than what I would have spent if I were to just buy 10 CDs or something.
So why do they want to destroy the whole PC industry to save the music industry? It doesnt make sense to me when most of Sonys sales, most of AOLs sales, come from the so called pirates. Those same pirates are the ones who pay AOL to connect to these file sharing apps.
But nooo, AOL has to be greedy and try to make you pay to connect to the net, buy their DVD burner, CD burner, and pay for the content.
Well imagine how successful ISPs would be if we had to pay for every website, $1 a site, how many people would surf the web for $1 a site? I wouldnt. Would you?
Why ruin the whole PC industry to save one business when theres 20-30 other businesses which benefit from piracy?
This isnt about economics, this isnt political, this is a power move, Disney has more power than Intel, Time Warner has more power than AOL, Sony's Movies Division has more power than Sonys electronics division.
What these dumb companies cant understand is, that their electronics divisions wont exist if they end piracy.
People wont bother buying a CD burner, at least not in these numbers, People wont buy VCRs, DVD burners, new soundcards for their PC, and all these little blank CDs.
Next time the RIAA complains about how many billions of dollars they lose on piracy, perhaps they should mention all of the billions they gain in terms of blank CDs, CD burners, DVD burners, and broadband internet access.
This industry could be huge, or a few greedy people can destroy it.
Mr. Sketch, what is your opinion? DO you think the Broadband/PC/Electronics industry will be bigger, or will the Media/Music/Content industry be bigger?
If you use Linux, please help development of Autopac
I am sorry, diplomacy is part of politics. Not for him apparently. If he can't control his temper (as it obviously is the case) in public statements, how can we expect that he will be objective when working on the laws ?
I think that these statements where he displays an obvious disregard for law and common sense should constitute grounds for whatever needs to be done to remove him from office.
If a judge said that, I think he would be disqualified from ever playing a role in any trial remotely related to these issues. And a judge is "merely" interpreting the laws. What can't we do anything with the people who make the laws ?
Better jack out before Trace and Burn, man.
It is for morons like this that the people should have the power to 'recall' politicians at all levels of govt. Senator Hatch says he's protecting your interests, but we all know the only interests he's protecting are his political contributions
This is kind of off-topic, but there are actually two reasons why the copyright holders want to extend the length of copyrights:
1) money (obviously)
and:
2) to limit the public domain. Since there is less 'material' in the public domain for derivative works, people wind up going back to the big copyright holders.
No, I don't trust in god. He'll have to pay up front, like everybody else.
All a stupid remark like that does is discredit any reasonable position in favor of protecting copyright holders -- if not worse. Lord Macaulay warned over a hundred and fifty years ago that if parliament passed unreasonable copyright laws, it would simply bring the law itself into contempt. Sen. Hatch is apparently going to take this one step further by damaging the stature of the law in the minds of common people without passing any legislation.
Post may contain irony: discontinue use if experiencing mood swings, nausea or elevated blood pressure.
Before my private property is seized or destroyed, I expect my constututional rights, specifically, those spelled out in the 4th amendment, to be respected.
The Government must not seize or destroy private property without that property's owner being granted due process. And I surely do not consent to a private industry lobbying group (the RIAA) taking the place of The Government, and trouncing that right, either.
If you have done so, please do not continue to advocate the destruction of private property, even under The Best Intentions(tm), or "boosting commerce". If you want to advocate the seizure or destruction of personal assets under ANY circumstances, please only consider doing so after granting the intended victim their constitutionally-guaranteed right of due process.
Do you think its fair that Sen Hatch destroy the whole PC industry just to fight some music pirates?
I have to ask you all, why the hell does our government favor certain industries over others?
What the hell? Since when was the Music/Movie industry more important than the electronics/PC industry?
People will stop buying Broadband internet access, they will stop buying CD burners, DVD burners, fancy soundcards,headphones,speakers, etc etc.
The main cause of PC industry growth right now is Piracy, File sharing, whatever you want to call it, its doing more for our economy than the Music Industry.
The Movie Industry is immune to this because the theaters are selling more tickets than ever, I've went to see more movies this year than I ever have in my life.
If you use Linux, please help development of Autopac
The new standard of American justice:
Presumed innocent until the RIAA decides you might be guilty!
Buy Text Processing in Python
Greetings, Thank you for taking the time to contact me. I receive a large volume of E-mails, phone calls, faxes and letters every week from concerned citizens like yourself. By following these simple steps, you will help me respond to your concerns in a more prompt and efficient manner. Please note that because of the high volume of E-mails I receive daily, it may take up to several weeks to receive a response. â" IMMEDIATE ACTION ITEMS: To respond to your time sensitive concerns, please contact the Washington office or the state office in your area. â" Legislative Comments: To respond to your concerns regarding a legislative matter, please include your complete name, address, and a daytime telephone number (optional). I will respond to your email by mail. â" Scheduling Matters: Please contact our Washington office by faxing your request to our fax line (202) 228-1229. â" Constituent Services: i.e. DC Tourism, Internships, Flag Requests, and Academy Nominations. Please access my website . I look forward to hearing from you. Sincerely, Arlen Specter
Did your neighbor borrow your lawn mower and fail to return it? Well in legislation proposed by Sen. Hatch you would be able to bust a cap in their ass! Yep... it's legal vigalanty justice should this bill pass. One catch though, you have to video tape the retaliation and sent it in to Cops(tm) who will own the copyright for personal justice media.
But it doesn't stop here, no sir. If you indeed returned that lawnmower, and you get a cap in your ass, you can bust a cap in their ass too.
Hatch has been remarked as saying, "The only way to reduce our crime rate is to legalize it".
There is no sanctuary. There is no sanctuary. SHUT UP! There is no shut up. There is no shut up.
So how long would it be before some SK sends S. Hatch a nice email congratulating him on his fortitude while installing a trojan horse which down loads massive amounts of mp3s from Morpheus all the while consuming the "two warnings" thus triggering the bomb.
Three things are certain: Death, taxes, and lost data. Guess which has occurred.
Too bad he didn't realize what a clever play of words he stumbled into. Man, that would have been funny if he posted it on purpose.
This would be an indescriminate manner to enforce a law.
Example: Someone uses your computer without your knowledge and downloads something "illegal". In turn your computer gets destroyed.
Hence, the perpetrator isn't punished, you are. It's like tying a shotgun to your door... it's an indescriminate manner to enforce "no trespassing".
This Hatch fellow is an idiot and clearly displays his lack of legal knowledge by saying things like that. Any legistlator who makes comments like that should be required to take a competency test and fired if deemed so stupid.
Sheesh I get worked up about this stuff... sorry.
Hatch makes his own songs available on cassette tape, but not on MP3. Bummer!!! Although it's easy to understand: he is probablyt worried that college students will pirate them, especially hit song "It's Not So Easy Growing Old" from his album "The Locket". So stop dissing the Orrin Dude! He is just fighting for himself!
Open season on Hatch, RIAA, Microsoft, your neighbors, those pesky stonecutters, etc.
1. Create a nice little BSA type company (ahem Front ahem) and obtain your technological
hunting permit!
2. Make a nice web-bugged copyrighted logo or image.. hell throw on a digital sig and digimark and any other drm thing you can think of on it.
3. Attach in email, or invite to web page with image. Include disclaimer,[or porn invite for senators] (optional?!)
4. Detect image hogging space in Hatch's IE cache. If deleted, he's obviously trying to avoid detection, and it's certainly undeletable..
5. Profi....
6. **->bubble, sizzle, sizzle bubble*****. Include all email servers etc. inside the organization on your 'melt list'
Most military systems have lots of copyrighted stuff on them too..
I'm sure all office workers at capitol hill don't have anything to hide.
hmm..
This sounds like fun.
Firefox &
Thats the most immature thing ive heard today, its worse than something id say when i was in a mood: People who have such knee-jerk reactions should be killed!
;) ;) yeah and if you belive that youll belive that i have an two M16's and a 12 guage for "personal protection"
File-trading is a way of life ive come to enjoy. Ok pirating is illigal, but then not all people who own guns intend to use them to shoot "animals and targets". Ofcourse, posting unanonymously id have to say that i would never download pirate music etc. Only stuff in the public domain
Surely theres a much bigger gun problem in america? no? so basically whats being said here is that illigal file-sharing constitutes more of a threat to America than kids going around shooting out schools? And for f*cks sake why do all these stupid senators have such stupid names???
This comment does not represent the views or opinions of the user.
How is it (or would it be) legal for a copyright owner to destroy someone elses property legally if the feds cannot?!? I have to wonder what planet Mr. Hatch comes from, it certainly isn't ours.
Not with my firewall and I can just re-format anyway.
If this does end up being feasible, the idea of proof comes into question. How can someone prove that that you were (or wern't) downloading copyrighted material if they nuke your harddrive? Unless they toast your hardware, there's no real way to do anything permanent other than wipe your HD, along wiht any evidence. This could be a very bad thing for both sides. Victims could claim they wern't downloading anything illegal even if they were, and attackers could claim someone was even if they wern't. This, of course, doesn't even account for Mistakes.
Would future versions of operating systems be required to have an "RIAA Back Door" that only they have the key for? Will this be a feature of Palladium perhaps? What hardware changes will firewall vendors be forced to make?
Will they use known exploits in various operating systems? Would it then be illegal to patch these security holes?
I think Mr. Hatch has been watching too many movies. I mean, if we have the technology to upload a virus that is capable of destroying an alien mothership, surely it's trivial to destroy a single user's PC, right?
-CausticPuppy "Of all the people I know, you're certainly one of them." -Somebody I don't know
Some legal experts suggested Hatch's provocative remarks were more likely intended to compel technology and music executives to work faster toward ways to protect copyrights online than to signal forthcoming legislation. I didn't realize that individual senators were in the business of threatening industries...
..and it won't be long before someone with a packet sniffer figures out what the code is and then launches it as a permanent DoS attack against anything with a .gov or .mil TLD.
blog |
this idea allows the supposed victim to enact a punishment much greater than the crime, with no trial, and destroying evidence in the process.
genius!
Here is their self-description from their own website: Torchmark Corporation is a financial services holding company specializing in life and supplemental health insurance for "middle income" Americans through multiple distribution channels including direct response, exclusive and independent agencies.
It's disturbing to hear about members of the government openly advocating vigilatism. Violent self-help is a danger to any society founded on the principle of the rule of law. Who gets to decide who's guilty? Who determines the punishment? Who watches for excesses and abuses? When it's every man for himself, life quickly becomes nasty, brutish, and short.
Coincidentally, I've been reading a book called "The Contradictions of American Capital Punishment" (by Franklin Zimring) that argues, among other things, that America's strong vigilate tradition, especially in the South, is one of the primary reasons it has become one of the last developed nations in the world with a death penalty; and that the values associated with vigilatism prevent Americans from critically examining the gross inequities in their capital punishment system, such as the vastly differing rates of executution of the condemned by income and race.
When I read something like this, it makes me feel like senator Hatch has a lot in common with those Good ol' Boys in the white hoods. Lets all hope that cooler heads prevail.
What the Senator is suggesting is that a purported copyright holder be allowed to destroy property of another with no trial. This is un-American.
First, an Article 3 created court needs to determine guilt or innocence. Second, destruction of property as a punishment appears nowhere in the penal code [hehe, hehe, he said "penal"]. Last time I checked, we didn't cut off hands, either.
If I am a farmer and I think you may have stolen corn from my field as you drove by, could I destroy your refridgerator?
Hatch has no concept of technology or the dynamic of the problem he seeks to address. Thus, he speaks as one insane.
"I'd do away with the pixies if you could give me something more." Ben Lee
Pay no attention to the man behind the curtain with all your metadata.
and how long do you suppose till some kid with a grudge sets up a completely obscure OS, sets up a honey pot just begging to get nuked by this new technology, captures the packets, decyphers it, and takes down anyone he has a grudge with?
what if he has a politial agenda against your country?
these guys are soooo "smrt", i can tell!
This of course is only the beginning. They will add
in a "pre-emptive strike" clause, allowing your
computer to be destroyed because you were ABOUT
to download copyrighted material (or at least they
thought you were about to.....)
And to think that this is all coming from a man whose surname is synonymous to 'spitball.' (Reference: dictionary.com) --Revvy
Trivial Omnipotence
One's PC typically contains loads of personal information, documents, photos, etc. And are we to believe that law-enforcement never makes mistakes and that the only machines destroyed would be only those belonging to those whose activities warranted it? There are so many problems with this approach (i.e., what if one user on a multi-user computer is doing it--everyone on the machine must pay the price) that Hatch only shows how out-of-touch and ill-educated about modern computers he really is.
And once again, he makes himself a fine example of why Republicans are lying through their teeth when they spout platitudes about taming government intrusiveness and power.
--Rick "If it isn't broken, take it apart and find out why."
Are they going to send an e-mail bomb that will scatter my computer across the livingroom while I sleep. I can see a wrongful death suit coming.
But seriously, what can they do to us besides erasing our hard drives and BIOS chips.
That being said, I imagine that the average Joe would think his machine fried if you could remotely destroy his BIOS and reboot his machine.
Wh47 d1d j00 541, 31337 15n't t3h r0xor5 ne m0r3???
Ya know, there are some people you really respect, sometimes you just think, "hey that guy is a pretty cool guy, i like him" or something along those lines, but this is just NUTS! Fuck that crap.... "oh yeah, Microsoft should have the power to destroy your $1500 of machine" or yeah "the RIAA's search bot for pirated material got you confused with someone else and sorry, you're SOL, look in the EULA, we're not responsible". As long as they have to power to destory our PC, i think we should have the power to put a bullet in whoever did it. Don't mess with my computer. Use you're PATRIOT ACT I & II against me but if M$ or the fucking RIAA is going to be given power to screw up my computer, i'm moving to Canada. This is really sad, this is one of those times I wish I wasn't a republican. Idiots!
4ll y0ur c0mput4r b3l0ng t0 m3! 1 sh4ll d3str0y y00 us1ng th3 3l1t3 p0w3r 0f th3 1nt3rn3t!
..are mostly bulletproof against anything but a DOS attack if you set them up correctly (even a patched Windows machine is relatively solid).
Uh.. yeah. Likely. Perhaps he's got an exploit based on the 'evil bit'? Here's why he's on crack:
(1) Firewall
Anybody in their right mind has one. Ooops. Most of your attacks don't work anymore. There's another issue with multiple computers NAT-ing behind the same IP address. How do they know they're trying to attack the right one?
(2) OS-specific
FreeBSD / Linux / MacOS, even Windows
(3) Reputation
The only foolproof way I can think of doing something like this is if the destruct software is already on your computer. Like through Windows Media Player?
Does Microsoft really want to loose what little good will they have left with the computer community by admitting that they wrote code to remotely destroy their users computers? And what happens when an exploit is discovered to trigger this arbitrarily?
That's dangerous ice they would be on.
(4) Hacking laws?
Christ, if it's borderline illegal to run a honeypot these days, you'd probably be able to bring a damn good lawsuit against them for malicious hacking.
I can see it now, I wake up to find out that millions of computers have been destroyed by a new fast moving worm that infects windows based computers and issues the almighty kill command. Now, I hear them talking about how they want to protect networks from terrorists, this is opening the front doors up and issuing an invite to Osama!
... but at least we don't hide our fundamentalists like Wyoming or Idaho.
I don't know, the word "ILLEGAL" pops into my mind.
With that word comes the thought, "If someone stole something of mine, and I nuked their computer, I would be called a cyber-terrorist."
Put these two ideas together, and you come up with the logical argument:
Hatch wants to legalize computer nuking.
Computer nuking is cyber-terrorism
THEREFORE
Hatch wants to legalize terrorism.
I mean really, what else can you expect from a Republican?
*DUCKS*
ad logicam Claiming a proposition is false because it was presented as the conclusion of a fallacious argument.
I, for one, just quit the Republican Party, and sent the good Senator a nice message telling him why. I would STRONGLY urge all of you to do the same. Here's a nice little template to follow:
Dear Senator Hatch,
I'm writing to you after reading an Associated Press news article in which you stated your support to destroy the computers of those who infringe on copyrights.
"If that's the only way, then I'm all for destroying their machines. If you have a few hundred thousand of those, I think people would realize..." you were quoted as saying.
While I do agree with you that folks downloading entire catalogs of music en masse from the internet are basically thieves, I think this is quite the extreme and wrong stance, especially given the sad state of copyright law that now exists.
It's pretty clear today that copyright now favors large entertainment companies instead of any kind of scientific and social progress as the founders had intended, with copyright terms now exceeding most people's life expectancies (what good is the public domain when the public that could benefit from it no longer exists.) and when laws like the DMCA makes it a crime to copy something for FAIR USE if it happens to be encrypted in the first place. It's also pretty clear that Congress now favors the entertainment companies rather than the people that elected them, when they're willing to advocate or condone a "solution" that would destroy the private property of their constituents, without so much even lip service paid to due process.
Well, if you're willing to be so extreme, Senator, so am I. I just quit the Republican Party. While I'm not from your state, and Pennsylvania is far from a Republican stronghold, I intend to encourage others to do the same.
Maybe a few hundred thousand of us, and you'll realize something.
Sincerely,
Ed R. Zahurak
Ed R.Zahurak
You know, oblivion keeps looking better every day.
So if you download a CD worth $18, they can destroy your $1500 PC as payback? Riiiight.
And just how accurate would this system be? The RIAA's "anti-MP3" web bots have been known to falsely label legit MP3s as illegal. How many PCs would Hatch's proposed technology wrongfully destroy?
I'm not against protecting copyrighted material, but this is absolutely ridiculous.
He is a devout MORMON! No one gets it yet.
Mormons have their own sense of morality and are at odds with the non-religious intellectuals.
Am I the ONLY poster that lnows about his firm roots?
The RIAA/MPAA is given the power to search your computer using worm/crawlers and deposit a payload of their choice on to your machine. The intention being that the payload disables and/or tracks you the "pirate". AOL/TW uses that crawler to distribute AOL as well as some "sample" music for you. They also purchase Columbia House and 6 months after depositing their "samples" and the "license" has expired they hit you up to purchase a "subscription". After all:
a y\. Don't pretend you didn't see it, there's a shortcut to it right on your desktop that got put there when you installed Winamp/ICQ/AOL/AIM. What do you mean you didn't install those programs? We see them right there in the Add/remove programs. We see everything on your machine."
"you have the music on your machine and have had it for six months don't you think it's time you paid for it".
"Sure it's there it's under c:\windows\ext\loa\ch\sub\downloads\media\music\p
"You'll just have to go through our arbitration process to prove that YOU didn't install the software and that YOU didn't download our copyrighted material. It's all pretty simple, unfortunately it takes about 6 months and if you lose it could be a pretty hefty fine. How about a nice little subscription to our service which is much more cost effective?"
Should you refuse the "service" that's okay. AOL also purchased Gateway. They disable your computer prior to arbitration. They know that there's a 1 in 5 chance you'll buy your next computer from Gateway not realizing they're owned by AOL. And since you're a "pirate" and all they can't have you doing you're "pirate" thing and just getting away with it. So while you're waiting for arbitration they've disabled your DVD player, stereo, and disconnected your cable (cuz they own that too). Can't have you breaking the law now can we.
You car will explode as soon as you exceed the speed limit. SPEEDERS MUST BE STOPPED!!!!
So at what point will someone point out the obvious, that people like this deserve life in prison and a hefty fine? If some kid poking around sendmail exploits is liable for that, a criminal senator who wants to destroy millions of PCs should be liable for at least as much. By my calcuations, the costs of this to the American people could be far greater than the entire profit of the Music industry this year. Worldwide, it could rival the costs of the music industry this decade.
To be frank, this terrorist piece of shit should be put away for a long time, and any music industry cronies who decide to follow his words should be given the exact same sentence.
It's been a long time.
They can't nuke what they can't find.
So do yourself a favor and get freenet. You'll also be doing me a favor too since there's barely anything worthwhile on freenet so far. ;)
Instead of forwarding I love you to everyone in outlooks address book they will be sending a message to destroy computers. I guess Hatch doesn't think viruses are damaging enough. On a side-note would SCO be using this on AIX computers as you read this if the technology was in effect today?
He is a devout MORMON! No one understands it yet.
Mormons have their own sense of morality and are at odds with the non-religious intellectuals.
Am I the ONLY poster that lnows about his firm roots?
This is slightly off topic but are there any laws that prevent law enforcement agencies from targeting people purely based on "making an example of them". i.e targetting completely random filetraders (people who had pirated and therefore broken the law) not because they were biggest pirates around or for anyother reason, but just as random criminals so everyone else would see the example and take heed? There should be a law against this, not just for piracy but in general, anyone agree? And what about organisations such as the RIAA starting suits againts random for the same "making an example out of them" reason? Would Hatch do this? randomly visiting a known illigal file-traders home with a sledgehammer?
This comment does not represent the views or opinions of the user.
Holy-bleeding-step-mother-of-christ's-big-toe! What in the holy fuck is this guy on?
Is Hatch hitting the Hootch?
Must be, if you we able to pinpoint WHO was partaking in illegal online behavior, then why the hell wouldn't you get the appropriate **AA organization legal team on their ass????!? If you had the tech to trace and identify it down to a single machine, you got 'em. Sorry (insert college name), but one of your 10,000 students downloaded 3 mp3's that we felt we in violation of copyright. Just apply for more grant and gov't funding to repair the damaged PC's. Such ignorance is astounding! Does he hold stock in Dell or Compaq?
My head hurts......
Sehr geehrter Toilettenbenutzer!
People this dumb should NOT be running the country. This is potentially a national security risk for every nation in the world. What if a worker at a Nuclear Missile silo decides he's bored having his finger on the key to launch a nuke and decides to download a new Metallica song and his computer is damaged because of it? We need Mr. Hatch to stand down and release his job, stupid statements like this should not be made, ever.
Wonderful, a technology for remote destruction of a computer. Gives new meaning to the term Denial of Service!
A single hack attack would destroy thousands of dollars of equipment, Even assuming no serious loss of data, how, exactly, are we going to prevent Bin Laden from destroying our economy with a single worm? or some corporate spy?
This "solution" appears just slightly shy of insane.
Jesus lovers create these laws.
He is a devout MORMON! No one gets it yet.
Mormons have their own sense of morality and are at odds with the non-religious intellectuals.
Am I the ONLY poster that lnows about his firm roots?
In Canada, we are paying a tarif on every blank cd sold to the record industry whether we use it for data back-up or pirating. Many people figure that if they're paying a tax on music downloads then they have a right to download music. I wonder how they would feel if they're systems are attacked for doing something that they were forced to pay for? Do International copyright laws allow for the US government to attack people all over the world? How would the attcker be 100% sure of his/her target?
"I am a lineman for the RIAA...".
Intellectual property rights are not "moral questions," but issues of policy. Though Hatch and his ilk are always claiming the so-called "moral" high ground, all he really is is a politician. The decisions we make about how far to extend IP rights and remedies is political (and, I suppose, economic), and has nothing to do with morality.
The refrence to the destruction of your computer is someone nebulous. What does this mean. The only way ot really destroy a computer remotely is to launch a tomahawk attack :D
:P
Worst that could happen is a bios virus- at worst you lose your mobo. But of course, many people write protect their bios, so that would be fairly useless. So then,they just format your system hdd? Big whoop- i have 3 (all 3 have an installed). I format my main drive anyways once a month.
Also, what about proxys? So they "destroy" some computer sharing file xxx, only to find out that they destroyed, the proxy server, not the filesharing computer.
The thing that miffs me most about anti filesharing rants like this is the technical ignorance of the people who make them.
Im sure if you asked the venrable senator what an ip adress was, he would be a loss
By accident, I mean their system screwing up and destroying their own data, some cracker finding a way to do it and causing billions of $ of damage, or them destroying some mafia computers and getting a contract on them...
Opus: the Swiss army knife of audio codec
This sounds scary. But it does have legal precedence, of sorts.
I was recently warned that in Los Angeles county, if you're caught racing (by the judgement of the arresting officer), your vehicle is forfeit to the county.
In Florida, any vehicle involved in any drug violation may be forfeit to the state. Of course, the state is in it for the money, so they'll be nice enough to sell you your own vehicle back. A friend of mine paid over $5,000 to get her own car back over a minor violation. It took over a month to get things arranged, and several trips to that city. She had only been passing through the town, she wasn't a resident.
One particular sheriff's department has some of my handguns still, which I'm particuarly upset about. My ex-wife was getting violent, so I gave a friend everything dangerous from the house. She locked them all away in the trunk of her car. A couple days later, she was pulled over on suspicion of DUI. She wasn't arrested for DUI, but because she was pulled over on suspicion, they seized the weapons. It did absolutely no good to try to explain it to anyone. And yes, they were all perfectly legal. The begging to get my stuff back ended when they finally came up with the standpoint of "we don't know where they are." They just disappeared out of the system. {cough}{cough}. Ya into someone's personal collection, I'm sure.
The gov't is already seizing property without due processes or reasonable cause. I doubt they'll get the law through saying you can hack, but I'd bet they'll pass laws saying any equipment used in the act of the crime (the crime being music piracy) can be seized. I'm sure it'll be broad enough to include just about anything in house/apartment.
As for just killing machines on demand, I'd bet Microsoft will include that in future releases of Windows very willingly. It would terrify me to know that they could just pick and choose machines to zap.
If I was Joe-ISP hosting on Windows machines (ok, that would never happen), and one site had MP3's on it, they could not only destroy that site, but every site hosted there? They could cause damage to the machine itself (i.e., wipe the BIOS, drop the partition table, etc). I'd be afraid to think what would happen with a single BIOS change to bump the voltage up to the CPU and watch it fry. What would 12v do to a low voltage CPU line? Now what if that hosting machine happened to be a big expensive hosting machine? I've seen pricetags over $40k come by. It wouldn't be very good to see one of those go up in smoke.
I'd be just as upset if my kid had friends over, and they were downloading files and got *MY* machine destroyed. I'm not exactly going to be satisfied with "The RIAA destroyed your computer because someone was downloading Enimen's new album. They're legally protected in this action." Well, I'd probably be more upset as this would be my own machine. Customers can live with a server down for a day or two (but they won't like it). My personal property is *MINE*.
Serious? Seriousness is well above my pay grade.
tell this sentor that every time he breaks some minor law, we break his ass.
J-walks, two warnings then we break his legs, that'll teach him.
is still up. It hasn't been slashdotted or hacked.
Come on people! Why is this taking so long?
Get busy.
Under the recently passed Patriot Act distruction of a computer system is considered an act of terrorism. Does the senators recent comments mean he is now supporting act of terrorism?
Damn, this is what the title of the post should have be :
"Sen Hatch claim he support acts of terrorism."
Yahh, hiii haaaaa! -Major Kong, from Dr. Strangelove
Would this apply to professional publications, thesis and the like? My god, I have so many IEEE and other journal/conf papers... Blowing up my computer for each offense would leave a sizable crater.
How about if the illegally downloaded music (or leagally purchased) sucks, the listener get a shot at the artists' computers.
I think we should propose a new law that all seats in both houses of congress be wired with cattle prods remote controlled over the internet. Then we can watch CSPAN live, and whenever some congresscritter says something mind bogglingly stupid, we can immediately get their attention!
"Freedom means freedom for everybody" -- Dick Cheney
Sen. Orrin Hatch, R-Utah
Would you really trust the future of technology to a guy named Orrin?
Not noteable, IMO a rubbish article.
This genious needs to get his medication changed, it cannot be working right, for him to actually want to trash peoples PCs
Even if it was snowing in hell and he got his way, and made it legal for the MPAA/RIAA to damage or even just delete data from p2p users machines. Just think of the amount of damage when some of these victims take revenge
.. if the govt slicks your PC (reformat) .. and you have to reinstall windows... do you think microsoft will believe you (re-activation) or will you have to buy YET another copy of windows. I think Microsoft is behind this!! ;) j/k .. those bastards. Oh well, its linux for me.
Read the part labeled Goals Aceived
A pcworld Article
What signature defines me as a person?
So what he's suggesting is that copyright holders should be able to take the law into their own hands. Copy one of my works and I get to become judge, jury, and executioner. Great.
The more I think about it, I can't possibly think of anything more un-american. What happened to due process?
-S
--- What parts of "shall make no law", "shall not be infringed", and "shall not be violated" don't you understand?
Democrats want to take my money, and Republicans want to take my privacy. I'm no fan of 95% of the party's candidates, but the ideas espoused by Liberarians are growing more attractive by the day...
If our congressmen were superheroes..
Senator Orrin "Trapdoor Spiderman" Hatch says, "DOWN THE HATCH, BITCH."
This post brought to you buy my friend's comic genius.
thank you.
Should Mr. Hatch destroy my computer, I will take this as a violation of international law, and a terrorist act. As such, I would fully prosecute Senator Hatch as an international terrorist. Should the US government decline to turn this terrorist over, it will be subject to the most severe sanctions under international law. This should justify an invasion for the purposes of searching for weapons of Hatch destruction.
Republicans and morons are NOT mutually inclusive, it's just that Hatch just happens to be both.
My Grandfather told me he rented a car around 1920 that was rigged with a siren and kill device so when he got it up to the forbidden speed of 30 some odd miles per hour, the siren went off, and the engine died. Needless to say, he didn't rent from them again.
Hatch: That's a thought -- it is certainly a logically extension of my idea, but what if the pirate lives in an apartment building... all that collateral damage...
Me: Gee, you'd care about that ? Even your proposal admits all sorts of similar circumstances, like, what if I used my boss's or coworker's computer to pirate stuff, and you'd destroy that computer... or better, if some hacker wrote a simple virus which caused millions of PCs to download copyrighted material, thereby destroying all those computers...
Hatch: Uh, I guess this idea needs a little more work and thought behind it... So I guess requiring Xerox machines to explode if they are used to copy books might have some problems too...
Would be to develop technology to remotely fry the senator's
brain the next time he answers his phone. Pehaps it might be possible to develop a computer virus based on neural networks that could infect a human brain (Senator Hatch's) leaving it with the IQ of a hamster. Guess that wouldn't make much of a difference in his case.
Someone please tail Mr. Hatch around while he's driving, and when he makes the inevitable move to roll through a stopsign controlled intersection, leap out and SMASH his car with a large sledge. Or, more fitting, sneak up on his parked car and sugar his gas.
.5 cents. He breaks through the red light, someone's lost a family member. The end of traffic problems! we just smash all traffic violators' cars, before they do!
He breaks copyright, someone's out a loosely potential
He cannot go in any store and get anything but a Windows XP computer. With his talents, he deserves better, at least Mandrake 9.1, or if his budget is tight, a nice Lindows OS machine. Miffed, now he wants to destroy all computers, Incredible Hulk-style.
http://www.senate.gov/~hatch/index.cfm?Fuseaction= Offices.Contact
As a constituent of Sen. Hatch, I must say that this is the first time for me that I have been so severely disappointed in his leadership. I have just finished drafting an email to his office describing my feelings; according to his site, I can expect an email back from him, since I am a resident of Utah... don't know if I should hold my breath waiting for it, though...
This proposal has serious flaws, as so many people have already pointed out. Assuming it was even possible to enforce, it is a violent, destructive means of enforcing laws against non-violent, non-destructive activities. Just think where the world would be if more governments started following that policy of law enforcement!
There should really be a law passed that remotely destroys senators who have obviously sold out to the man.
If self destruct mechanisms are built into PC's...how long will it be before a virus, worm or trojan finds a way to trigger them?
Senator Hatch must have been wearing his Bad Idea jeans when he pitched this idea.
I wonder if hackers could invoke the same law after hacking in and destroying their systems, 'But we have been doing this for years, they violated our copyright' :)
Move out of the police state while you still can!
GPLv2: I want my rights, I want my phone call! DRM: What use is a phone call, if you are unable to speak?
I think we should develop technology that sends SARs through a user's keyboard if they download copyrighted material over the internet.
Dear Senator Hatch,
...
In case you were not aware, there are already laws against copyright infringement and penalties in place for the violation of said laws. Your remarks during a hearing on copyright abuses are downright frightening. What you are suggesting is a complete disregard for due process. Why not just enforce the existing laws?
You said, "If that's the only way, then I'm all for destroying their machines." If someone has been prosecuted for copyright violation thorugh the due process of law, then there is no need to remotely destroy computers. The only reason anyone would need to invoke such technology would be if due process of law were being ignored.
The Founding Fathers would find you a disgrace to their vision of American government. When you became a Senator, you took an oath to uphold the Constitution. I believe that you are in material breach of that oath, particularly the 5th Ammendment.
Regards,
--- What parts of "shall make no law", "shall not be infringed", and "shall not be violated" don't you understand?
As a Midwesterner, I'm upset that you would slur us in such a way.
Winblows Boxes will eventually all be destroyed.
I'm all for the remote destruction of Microshaft
Boycott-riaa.com has a satire piece about the possible industry support for Senator Hatch's idea. The Intel Pentium C4 and the AMD Amatol.
my patent for "destroying a computer over the internet" comes through by then.
Hatch's son is representing SCO.
It's too bad that the government of the people, by the people, and for the people is being controlled so much by spoiled brats who are badly overdue for just punishment -so they think before harming others next time.
Well, I'd like to thank Senator Hatch for elevating the level of the discussion.
We might just have to forcibly lobotomize congressmen for writing unconstitutional legislation, the President for signing it, the officers of various agencies for enforcing it, and the justices of the Supreme Court for refusing to strike it down. Only then might they begin to understand their oaths of office.
But probably not. How often will the people in charge of detaining me indefinitely and without counsel think of their oaths, or of the meaning of the Consitutional rights that we are all supposed to enjoy, when I have been flushed down the memory hole for uttering these remarks?
Address-collecting spam robots don't know how to crack ROT13. Do you?
Ahh.. the moron Senator has not though this through, or, I'm being the moron here.
Create a Virus, copyright it, email it to someone -- they downloaded it your honor! -- and destroy their computer!
What really burns me about this sort of thing is that if it were approved in the US, countries that wouldn't think of approving such a law will still be affected.
For past examples see the law that allows US law enforcement to kidnap people in foreign countries to bring them to trial in the US (without extradition). The US government says it has the right, but other countries don't have the same right to take criminals from US soil.
Or the current attempt to make US soldiers exempt from war crimes for at least a year, and possibly permanently.
The belief still seems to persist in media and politics that Internet==American, but every day more people from around the world are coming online.
The Internet should be treatied within the UN, which might frustrate corporations with the lag time that UN actions have, but the Internet is for the people, right?
kids who wouldn't buy it anyway because they don't give a shit about musicians will use it, and download crappy MP3s of radio recordings, and look for YuGiOh porn.
Who gives a shit about that?
No one looking for quality, hard to find material uses Kazaa anyway. It's harmless, and good when you need quick jack-off material. Leave the poor P2P nets alone.
Finally, guess what, the Internet lets you copy and share things. Someone will just make another application to make it easier, or kids'll have to learn about FTP and u/d ratios.
God I hate this information superhighway. I'm always stuck behind some loser rice-rocket pinto with the windows down blaring Latin dance music.
FUCK! FUCK! FUCK!
Black holes are where the Matrix raised SIGFPE
http://www.opensecrets.org/politicians/sector.asp? CID=N00009869&cycle=2002
Sector Total PACs Indivs
Agribusiness $115,550 $51,750 $63,800
Communic/Electronics $498,097 $257,197 $240,900
Construction $78,600 $35,000 $43,600
Defense $52,750 $51,500 $1,250
Energy/Nat Resource $128,110 $83,500 $44,610
Finance/Insur/RealEst $755,739 $404,879 $350,860
Health $768,560 $350,970 $417,590
Lawyers & Lobbyists $629,157 $134,368 $494,789
Transportation $164,868 $94,252 $70,616
Misc Business $503,374 $229,572 $273,802
Labor $12,950 $12,750 $200
Ideology/Single-Issue $113,679 $62,929 $50,750
Other $259,640 $5,000 $254,640
Yes, I remember the CIH virus that nuked a lot of CMOSes so I was able to extract a bunch of dead motherboards from dumpster and revive them. One of them works in my server now.
You seem to forget that the CIH (as well as most virii and any Senator's nuke imaginable) are platform specific. I use FreeBSD and I am reasonably sure that not only Windows malware, but Linux malware has no place to live here.
Then, if (hypothetically) Senator's method works (which cannot occur) it will be a HUGE hit to Microsoft's credibility as a secure OS, and the Open Source community will be pleased. And also it will inflate my ego of BSD hacker and hardware specialist with 20++ years experience, as well as return the money spent to Flash Bios Writer.
As a "good mormon", I have it on very good authority that:
I'll leave the ethical implications on both sides of the issue as an excersize for the reader.
In any case, I'm just as bothered by the suggestion that a destructive means should be used to prevent filesharing. I'm rather hoping, however, that many of these issues will fade from relevancy as easy, non-draconian, legal solutions (like iTunes) take over. Time will tell, I suppose.
Recently CDs with "impenatrable copy protection" were released. You can now download the CDs on KaZaa. You buy a game with SafeDisk(tm), then download a no-cd crack(tm).
My point is that the "industry" may thing DRM is the holy grail and all. But I guarentee you it will be hacked. What happens when your local 15 year old geek destroys his friends computer? Or perhaps his school's computer? Hacks into a government computer and.. Boom.
What will be the U.S. Government's press release when a terrorist destroys a few hundred computers in key locations such as aisports, banks, military? Think things through before you take those "industry" bribes. No, I don't even call them "campaign contributions " anymore; bribes.
Too far down for anyone to read... but whatever.
"Engineers do the work of man, Physicists do the work of God"
Congress would have to enact an exemption for copyright owners from liability for damaging computers.
Cool. So if I write a virus/trojan/worm, I have recorded an expression of mathematical thought in fixed form. Under the Berne Convention, I am now a copyright holder. Which means I can now destroy anyone's computer that has my copyrighted material on it...(after a couple of warnings). I think 2 popup windows telling them to get rid of my malicious code should be enough. As soon as they close the window a second time, I guess my code can destroy the computer now.
What's even better is that if they make this a hardware requirement to have this kind of a backdoor, they've just left the entire country open to a terrorist attack.
"If we can find some way to do this without destroying their machines, we'd be interested in hearing about that," Hatch said. "If that's the only way, then I'm all for destroying their machines. If you have a few hundred thousand of those, I think people would realize" the seriousness of their actions, he said.
Yay. Let's intentionally make it easier for assholes to destroy our country. Nice idea dipshit. Perhaps he didn't think that far ahead.
Best. Comment. Ever. Enjoy!
Senator Hatch,
Although I am not one of your constituents, I was sufficiently shocked by your comments regarding music piracy that I feel compelled to write you personally. The "eye for an eye" ideology of justice died several hundred years ago, and has absolutely no place in the United States. Destruction of private property is an absolutely abhorrent way to deal with crime of any kind, especially copyright infringement.
While I sympathize with the RIAA executives and agree that copyrights must be respected, I believe that the US government has a fundamentally flawed perception of the problem. The rampant copyright infringement occuring presently is a direct result of the failure of the companies RIAA represents to respond to market demands. People want digital music that can be traded easily, and as citizens of a free, capitalist society they have the right to expect digital music. There is absolutely no reason that the free market cannot satisfy this demand and make a fair profit.
What is truly horrific is that the US government has decided to side with RIAA and support their unprofitable, inefficient monopoly on music distribution. Senator, please remember that this is a free market economy and the government has no place propping up a failing industry. Other companies with fresh, forwardthinking approaches have stepped in to fill the void. They will eventually succeed in ensuring that people pay their fair share for the music they enjoy.
> But it would only be used if you're downloading
> copyrighted material...
In other words, anything not from Project Gutenberg.
Or have you forgotten that copyright is automatic and applies to every email and Slashdot posting? Are you one of those idiots who thinks that only publishers have copyrights?
Warning: this article may contain humor, sarcasm, parody, and perhaps even irony. Read at your own risk.
No person shall be held to answer for a capital, or otherwise infamous crime, unless on a presentment or indictment of a Grand Jury, except in cases arising in the land or naval forces, or in the Militia, when in actual service in time of War or public danger; nor shall any person be subject for the same offence to be twice put in jeopardy of life or limb; nor shall be compelled in any criminal case to be a witness against himself, nor be deprived of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor shall private property be taken for public use, without just compensation.
BZZZT! Sorry, RIAA doing a remote hack in and scan of my HD and finding a file they think may be a copy of copyrighted content is not due process by a long stretch. I demand a trial. But we already know that's way too expensive to stop $1 worth of piracy since it hasn't already happened to 80% of the population under 30.
Introducing the new Occam Fusion! Now with sqrt(-1) fewer blades!
"Cost of destoryed computer: $2,000; Cost of 'pirated song' $.99; Loss of Personal Data: Priceless"
Senator Hatch has been against the US public for far too long.
Hey, I stopped buying and actively listening to music a long time ago. There is so much lousy "me too" repeat crud on the air nowadays what's the point anymore. Just leave your radio on you get your music fill and turn it off when you're done. See ... free and no waste of internet bandwith.
/constitutional anyways.
Why go around filetrading worthless crap when by the time you find a file, get it, burn it, you can't stand listening to it any more. I think that a lot of this mp3 file trading is done by compulsivly disordered people. They do it just beacause its fun to have vast monolithic libraries of non-listened-to-music. What is the use any more, why don't people walk away from non-free music altogether. Why risk get in trouble for trading corporate goofball music like Celine Dion or Eminem?
If you like the crud reward the artist for the work otherwise walk away and find free-er pastures (one funny thing I've seen though, you usually can find "hit top 40" songs to download for free at the artists' own home web site most of the time, legally).
The sens' idea is stupid. You can't go destroy private property for punitive reasons without due process. I dont belive the tech would be feasable
Just some toughts.
This is funny. Obviously there's not a snowball's chance in hell it would happen, but still I'll give him credit for taking the definition of fool to new heights.
Now if you want to write a computer nuking virus all you have to do is have it download some copywrited material. All the hard work will be already done for you.
5i9|\|3d, 5|\|ip3ri|\|di59ui53
In the past, RIAA has relied solely on lawsuits to enforce their notions of intellectual property. However, lately they have been shifting their focus a bit to fighting the evil pirates technologically (arrr !). They want to hack people's computers, pollute p2p networks, etc.
This means that file sharing could become a "Wild West" of sorts: every man for himself, and may the one with the best code win. RIAA tries to hack your machine, you install a firewall. They pollute a p2p network, you introduce MD5 sums. This evens the playing field quite a bit.
Of course, knowing RIAA, they will buy enough senators to make firewalls and MD5 sums illegal for anyone but themselves... so we are back to square one :-(
>|<*:=
At least Hatch wants to do it for a reason (albeit one I don't like).
Micro$haft seems to do this all the time, at random!
So we, the unfortunate ones, will at least be ready for it.
"Never trust a computer you can't throw." -- The Mac
I can't decide whether I would want that or John Denver.
What are you talking about? Everyone knows that religion leads to nothing but joy, happiness, and acceptance of our fellow man. You should be burned at the stake, as you are obviously a heretic.
I am a "content creator". Everything I do is under copyright protection (just like everybody else - including you.)
:o)
Lots of my stuff is on my website. All I have to do is watch my server logs for IP addresses owned by the RIAA/MPAA (maybe someone will send them an anonymous tip that I have "copyrighted material" on my website
Since I'm a copyright holder, and I would have reason to believe that they would have my copyrighted materials on their computers (in their browser cache), then (under this bill) I would be perfectly within my rights to hack into their systems and destroy their computers.
Sounds like fun to me.
Perhaps you are referring to the now infamous Hoffman forgeries?
Mark Hoffman was a skilled forger who killed people to cover his tracks. His "documents" were no such thing.
And this has hardly been out of the news for anyone that cares to know...
Bullfrog
isn't it a 'communist' philosophy to consider all property as belonging to the (corporate) state? that's not your pc, and if we don't like what you're doing with it . . . boom boom boom boom. oh woe, what a shame, land of the free aus, uk, all so keen to follow their leader - usa. too bad your (our) elected officials are swayed more by 'donations' than votes. -- your 1000 years of trouble starts . . . now
Mongrel News all the news that fits and froths
Just to be in line with Mr. Hatch's thoughts, I propose that knee-capping, knuckle crushing, arm breaking, and leg breaking be legalized as methods to enforce business deals by companies. Then organized crime can become legitimized and the government can collect more taxes. Yea, that's it! This is a government revenue scheme.
Hogwash!!!
I'm an adult, I own a computer. I don't have any "illegal files" on my machine. My kids, the neighbourgh's kids, etc. come at my place and install Kazaa w/o my knowledge. They start downloading files, etc. Heck they (kids) could even be inadvertely sharing legal MP3's that they bought through "insert MP3 seller here".
So a few days later my PC gets "destroyed" suddently. Who's responsible? It's not a valid reason to not know the law but what if you're not even aware that there is a "crime" being commited? What if there is no crime being commited at all but simply a technological mistake? What if legal mp3 files were shared w/o the user's knowledge?
Let's see this on a different side: You go to your local convenient store and you assist at a crime. Can the cops shoot you for just being there? For not doing anything about it? There are many similar (and less controversial) situations where such force would not be acceptable. You can't even kick the azz of a robber trying to steal you. How would "a copyright protector" (RIAA) be allowed to do such a thing?
-- Leeeter than leet
Sen Hatch set us up the bomb....
--
As a matter of fact, I am a lawyer. But I play an actor on TV.
I am going to go ahead and post this in its entirety here:
AP-- June 17, 2003
District of Columbia police were alerted to a sexual assualt near the White House at 8:20 PM Tuesday. Although initial reports are sketchy, it appears as if the victim was Utah Senator Orrin Hatch.
Robert Jefferson, spokeman for the DC police refused to reveal the identity of the victim, citing national security concerns. However, anonymous sources claim that the victim identified himself as Senator Hatch.
According to reports given by eyewitnesses at the scene, Senator Hatch was the victim of a brutal gang rape 4 blocks from the White House. From the preliminary eyewitness reports, Sen. Hatch was attacked by as many as a dozen young men, described as Caucasian and sloppily dressed. Several of the attackers appeared to be wearing "wearable computers."
The attackers were heard to yell repeatedly at Hatch during the sexual assualt. Among the epithets overheard were "leet," "owned," and "download this, Hatch."
eat shiat and bark at the moon
Now i'm going to get family members saying "i dont want another windows machine cos they blow up when i download files"
I'm quite certain that if i made a real effort to properly lock down a linux box, register alerts to people snooping and ther likes that even the top govt experts would struggle.
Then i'll just stick a Linux, BSD and Solaris box in a chain so they'd have three to get thru.... that'd cost more than buying the damn cds in the first place, but that's almost not the point anymore.
There is no way this would happen, if the gov't started destroying people's computers it would come back on them ten fold.
You are the best troll on Slashdot. Keep up the good work.
Interesting you should use Sony as an example. In their last fiscal year they had some interesting results...
Profits of about $1billion (yes, that's a 'b') on sales of about $62billion, total. Which looks a lot more interesting when you break it down by division...
Sony Pictures showed operating income of $492million on sales of $6billion.
Sony Music showed an operating loss of $73million on sales of $5billion.
Sony Videogames showed an operating income of $942million on sales of $8billion.
Sony Electronics showed an operating income of $345million on sales of $41billion.
Sony is doing everything they can to stop IP piracy to protect their movie and entertainment divisions, because that's the best way they have to make money. They have to work a *lot* harder in their electronics division (8 times the sales) to make 2/3 the operating income of the movie division. 5 times more sales in electronics than in videogames, and they made 1/3 the income.
The profit margins in consumer electronics suck. The profit margins in movies/entertainment are great. They are making a conscious rational decision about how best to protect their profits.
Sales don't matter. Income and profits matter.
This is my sig. There are many like it but this one is... Oops. Frank, I've got your sig again! Where's mine?
I read with some dismay Senator Hatch's comments on copyright. Please remind him at the next opportunity of the text of the 8th clause of the constitution:
"The Congress shall have the power.... To promote the progress of science and useful arts, by securing for limited times to authors and inventors the exclusive right to their respective writings and discoveries"
There is a critical point here, carefully obfuscated by the RIAA and it's minions - there is no such thing as "Intellectual Property."
There is a concept in law called a "Natural Right," and it is generally accepted that people have a natural right to propriety. But as Jefferson was explicitly clear on, there is no natural right to "own" an idea:
"If nature has made any one thing less susceptible than all others of exclusive property, it is the action of the thinking power called an idea..."
Copyright does not protect property, it is not about protecting property; it is about promoting science and the useful arts. Copyright is not a property right; it is a temporary monopoly. Violating copyright is not theft, it is not piracy; it is guerilla anti-trust.
This distinction is quite clear in the constitutional grant of exclusive right, that such grant would not be obviously self-justified as it would be for property, but that such right is justified only in as much as it fulfills the noble social good of "promoting the progress of science and the useful arts."
Larry Lessig's recent supreme court challenge to the CTEA hinged on the second phrase's "limited time." He argued unsuccessfully that the extensions provided by CTEA violated the phrase by establishing essentially perpetual copyright. The court asked if 120 years was not a finite time, and turned the claim down.
It would seem that a more powerful case would be made by asking if the CTEA, DMCA, NET, etc. fulfill the constitutionally required purpose: "to promote science and the useful arts."
Today fear of over-broad laws wielded by greedy institutions has a broad chilling effect on innovation: science and the useful arts. If found thus by the court, such laws would be unconstitutional.
Thomas Jefferson was quite clear on his views of copyright and these views are enshrined in the 8th clause. It is a grant of an "embarrassing monopoly" and not a right; explicitly the fugitive fermentations of a mind cannot be owned.
Senator Hatch needs to hear and understand his words:
"It has been pretended by some, (and in England especially,) that inventors have a natural and exclusive right to their inventions, and not merely for their own lives, but inheritable to their heirs. But while it is a moot question whether the origin of any kind of property is derived from nature at all, it would be singular to admit a natural and even an hereditary right to inventors. It is agreed by those who have seriously considered the subject, that no individual has, of natural right, a separate property in an acre of land, for instance. By an universal law, indeed, whatever, whether fixed or movable, belongs to all men equally and in common, is the property for the moment of him who occupies it, but when he relinquishes the occupation, the property goes with it. Stable ownership is the gift of social law, and is given late in the progress of society. It would be curious then, if an idea, the fugitive fermentation of an individual brain, could, of natural right, be claimed in exclusive and stable property. If nature has made any one thing less susceptible than all others of exclusive property, it is the action of the thinking power called an idea, which an individual may exclusively possess as long as he keeps it to himself; but the moment it is divulged, it forces itself into the possession of every one, and the receiver cannot dispossess himself of it. Its peculiar character, too, is that no one possesses the less, because every other possesses the whole of it. He who receives an idea from me, receives instruction himself without lessen
As for just killing machines on demand, I'd bet Microsoft will include that in future releases of Windows very willingly. It would terrify me to know that they could just pick and choose machines to zap.
That feature is already been built and deployed in Windows OS. Its their kernel.
Actually, that's not exactly true. They reserve the right to cut you off if you download what they consider to be "too many" downloads. But they don't tell you exactly how many that is.
I have several copies of Linux/FreeBSD. Didn't pay for most of them. Yet they are high quality OS's, with more Free [beer||speech] software than I can shake a stick at. So there, your argument doesn't hold water...
With Emusic; a cursory glance at their message board tells me that they force the use of a download manager which (from what I read) does not work, and many people are ending up with incomplete downloads being counted against them, and also you are not downloading mp3s, but some odd proprietary format called 'emp'[?]...
use emule to download files in a distributed fashion. It is almost impossible to get a malicious file this way. Especialy if you hang out on web sites that post hashes of known good files. Emule also supports lists to block networks run by people that attack P2P file sharing clients.
If you have a virus scanner and software firewall, it is smooth sailing. Just throw in a cheap CD burner to save your downloads!
If such a law were to pass IN ANY STATE.
I hereby swear to never make a legal music or movie purchase AT ALL. INCLUDING STUFF I LIKE. Until the law is overturned.
I will spend '0' dollars in a full-on boycott.
But isn't the RIAA failing to capitalise on the biggest market research effort in history? If it was smart, it would be trying to collect the information surrounding the music being shared for marketing purposes. Or is this just too plain simple for them to recognise?
Can any good Mormons out there explain how the belief that you will (if you pay your tithes, etc) someday become a GOD affect your world view
Heh, was that an intentional troll to try to get a Mormon to respond? =)
The best way to answer your question is to remind you that...as a group...Mormons are generally no different from anyone else. We may have different health standards, dress modestly, and have a couple more kids...but when you get down to it, we're still all human. For some reason, when people hear the word Mormon, they think of some self-righteous religious group who means well, but they're beliefs have warped their views to the point where Mormons are out of touch with reality.
If that's not annoying enough, people also scrutinize our actions to see just how moral we really are. "Look! There! A Mormon who isn't perfect! And there, 2 more!" Well duh, we're human. We mess up just as much as Catholics, Protestants, Muslims, Jehovah's Witnesses, etc.
As for how beliefs affect our views...I'll try to answer this as honestly as possible. The idea you mentioned of becoming a God mentioned isn't official church doctrine...I could pull out scriptues to support both sides of the arguement. But overall, your question doesn't matter anyways. The influential belief in our lives is just getting to heaven. That means we try to be our best, admit our mistakes, and try harder next time. If I'm faced with some moral decision, I think "ok, I'm accountable for what I do...I want this...but I know I should be doing that." Sen. Hatch I know to be a really decent guy, (his computer destroying comment is way off in left field, but overall, he tries to be an honest person). The SCO execs on the other hand, they sound pretty messed up. I don't know the whole story, but on the surface, it sure doesn't look right. It makes me wonder too "Many of those SCO execs are probably Mormon. What in the world are they thinking? How can you lie to the world and slander everyone by day, and pray to God at night?" I guess it just comes down to that they're human, and you can find bad apples in all religions.
Nothing could keep a determined and well funded attacker from causeing massive harm if this were legal. The first strike would be aimed at the same poor fools that got the p2p harrasment letter and other easy target windoze machines. It would cripple a large proportion of corporate computers and world industry. The first week might trigger the next great depression as small businesses cupmpled an larger ones dependent on Microsoft were injured directly and indirectly. Teams of crackers could find exploits in just about everything and cause harm to more rational systems as well. All systems can be cracked, it's just a matter of time and effort. Even OpenBSD has suffered one or two remote root expoits. All it takes is one hole, lots of bandwith, and a bad attitude. The first box dammaged is unacceptable loss.
Not that I'm in favor of destroying people's computers (I assume this means things like reformatting people's hard drives), that's just asinine. But I do think it's OK for record companies to spoof P2P networks and try to disrupt them.
No, no, no, no! Spoofing is every bit as obnoxious an offense as the actual copyright violations themselves. It consumes bandwith by simply forcing the downloader to look again. The remedy should not be worse than the dissease.
DMCA, Hollings, Palladium. What might have sounded like paranoia is now common sense.
WASHINGTON - The chairman of the Senate Judiciary Committee (news - web sites) said Tuesday he favors developing new technology to remotely incinerate the automobiles of people who illegally exceed the speed limit.
The surprise remarks by Sen. Orrin Hatch, R-Utah, during a hearing on transportation laws represent a dramatic escalation in the frustrating battle by industry executives and lawmakers in Washington against highway scofflaws.
During a discussion on methods to frustrate car owners who illegally exceed the speed limit, Hatch asked technology executives about ways to ignite cars involved in such speeding.
Legal experts have said any such attack would violate federal arson laws.
"No one is interested in destroying anyone's car," replied Randy Saaf of MphDefender Inc., a secretive Los Angeles company that builds technology to disrupt automotive traffic. One technique involves deliberately driving very slowly so other users can't go faster.
"I'm interested," Hatch interrupted. He said incinerating someone's car "may be the only way you can teach somebody about speed limits."
The senator, a driver who logged 18,000 miles last year, acknowledged Congress would have to enact an exemption for speed limit enforcers from liability for damaging cars. He endorsed technology that would twice warn a computer user about illegal behavior, "then incinerate their car."
"If we can find some way to do this without incinerating their machines, we'd be interested in hearing about that," Hatch said. "If that's the only way, then I'm all for incinerating their machines. If you have a few hundred thousand of those, I think people would realize" the seriousness of their actions, he said. "There's no excuse for anyone violating speed limits," Hatch said.
Sen. Patrick Leahy, the committee's senior Democrat, later said the problem is serious but called Hatch's idea too drastic a remedy to be considered. "Traffic laws need to be followed, but some Draconian remedies that have been suggested would create more problems than they would solve," Leahy, D-Vt., said in a statement. "We need to work together to find the right answers, and this is not one of them."
Rep. Rick Boucher, D-Va., who has been active in transportation debates in Washington, urged Hatch to reconsider. Boucher described Hatch's role as chairman of the Judiciary Committee as "a very important position, so when Senator Hatch indicates his views with regard to a particular subject, we all take those views very seriously."
A spokesman for the Department of Transportation, Jonathan Lamy, said Hatch was "apparently making a metaphorical point that if transportation departments don't take reasonable steps to prevent massive speeding on the roads they build, Congress may be forced to consider stronger measures." The Department of Transportation funds major highway projects.
Some legal experts suggested Hatch's provocative remarks were more likely intended to compel technology and highway executives to work faster toward ways to enforce traffic laws than to signal forthcoming legislation.
"It's just the frustration of those who are looking at enforcing laws that are proving very hard to enforce," said Orin Kerr, a former Justice Department (news - web sites) moving violations prosecutor and associate professor at George Washington University law school. The transportation industry has gradually escalated its fight against speeders, targeting the most egregious scofflaws with civil lawsuits. The Department of Transportation recently won a federal court decision making it significantly easier to identify and track drivers - even those hiding behind aliases - using popular sportscars.
Kerr predicted it was "extremely unlikely" for Congress to approve an arson exemption for copyright owners, partly because of risks of collateral damage when innocent passengers might be wrongly targeted. "It wouldn't work," Kerr said. "There's no way of limiting the damage."
all of the basis of almost all anti-p2p filesharing groups is that filesharing is like theft from copyright owners. but if I were to commit an act of theft by stealing someone's purse, and keep it in my home, would anyone, ANYONE at all be allowed to destroy my home? no. remove the purse from my posession and punish my in other ways than property destruction, but not destroy my home. furthermore, is it wise to allow anyone with a copyright to destroy someone's computer? that's just asking for a cracker to come up with a way to do it freely to anyone who has a computer with the proper measures installed in/on their computer(maybe even a worm).
come on, this guy is an idiot.
Wow! I'm gonna, like, copyright some stuff right now, get some kid to upload it to Senator Hatch's computer, and BLAMMO! Good byyyyyyyeeeeee Senator's Snood! :-)
And to think, it'd be perfectly legal!
$8.95/mo web hosting
The black ice doesn't care who it kills.
from the TV/Movies/Music industry? I didn't think so......
First he brings us the DMCA and now this....
So my copyrighted material may have the same file name as a popular song. But my material is me reasing a poem I wrote, and it is in MP3 format. If anyone from the RIAA attempts to download this song, I am legally entitled to destroy their computer for infringing on my copyright.
So go ahead, fuckwits, I triple-dog-dare you to pass a law that makes activities like this legal.
My beliefs do not require that you agree with them.
So he wants to punish people without due process? Jebus he's the chairman of the Sen Jud Committee! It's time to put someone in that position that knows about laws and due process. Cause if any bastard destroys my computer citing "You had copyrighted material" and they take action without Judge, Jury and they're playing the executioner..
There will be hell to pay
As a lawyer (member Massachusetts bar & Federal District Court) I find it particularly outrageous that the chairman of the Senate Judicial Committee disregards basic Constitutional law.
.02
One of the many problems with Congress passing a law to allow vigilantes to destroy people's computers is that it violates due process. You're supposed to have a hearing before a neutral magistrate of some sort (usually a judge) before the government allows you destroy someone's property.
Congress could no more pass a law allowing corporate vigilantes to destroy people's computers without going to court than they could pass a law allowing a company to take your land for its own use without a trial.
Of course Senator Hatch knows this perfectly well. What's revealing is the fact that these so called conservatives who claim to admire limited government are always eager to use the coersive power of government to help big business. Republicans and honorary Republicans like Senator Lieberman are against government when it comes to protecting us from corporations (say through environmental legislation or class action law) but are more than happy to expand the power of government to help companies violate our rights.
Either that or Senator Hatch is attempting to act senile in order that he can replace Strom Thurmond!
Steve
*** Please visit my homepage for news and info. about trademark law, domain-name disputes and other e-commerce issues
- If the user tampers with the explosives or tries to remove them, the explosives go off.
- If the user downloads copyrighted materials and the copyright holder doesn't like it, the explosives go off.
- If the user links to a web page and the owner of the web page doesn't like it, the explosives go off.
- If the user uses profane language in an email and the ISP doesn't like it, the explosives go off.
- If the user criticizes the operation, functionality, completeness or reliability of any software program and the software maker doesn't like it, the explosives go off.
- If the operating system in the user's computer crashes, the explosives go off.
- If the user runs any software that competes with Microsoft's software and Microsoft doesn't like it, the explosives go off.
This new technology, in conjunction with telescreens, cameras and microphones in every room, a government agency that randomly spies on people, and a ministry that tortures those who don't conform, the world can be made a much happier place to live.Wouldn't the destroying party be legaly liable for the damage to your system ? Also Hatch has a website
you can E-Mail him and tell him how stupid he sounds.
Diplomacy is the art of saying "Nice doggie" until you can find a rock. Will Rogers
I want this law to pass and be enforced.
I want all the people of the world to see how stupid some of the lawmakers are.
I want the records industry to make a fool of itself.
I want this proposal to get a world-wide audience, not just the usual Slashdot audience.
I copied this sig.
Maybe being down wind of the atom bomb tests realy did effect people in Utah.
Even though I tend to vote republican I'm against Senator Hatch and all the rest of the assholes (Republican and Democrat) who are this clueless about technology.
You know why this happens (along with prescription drugs w/o means-testing that the young workers will have to pay for)? 18-30 year old people typically _don't vote_ in the US. The old technofogies running the place will stand up and listen if you vote some of them out of office for this shit. Get informed and please vote in the next election.
Save this to your hard disk; lest it get disappeared:
l Deal/2003/CAF1033/CAF012003.htm
http://www.sandersresearch.com/html/MappingtheRea
I browse at +5 Flamebait- moderation for all or moderation for none.
Senator Hatch:
For your reading pleasure, I bring several paragraphs which would like a word with you:
Amendment IV
The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.
Amendment V
No person shall be held to answer for a capital, or otherwise infamous crime, unless on a presentment or indictment of a grand jury, except in cases arising in the land or naval forces, or in the militia, when in actual service in time of war or public danger; nor shall any person be subject for the same offense to be twice put in jeopardy of life or limb; nor shall be compelled in any criminal case to be a witness against himself, nor be deprived of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor shall private property be taken for public use, without just compensation.
Amendment VI
In all criminal prosecutions, the accused shall enjoy the right to a speedy and public trial, by an impartial jury of the state and district wherein the crime shall have been committed, which district shall have been previously ascertained by law, and to be informed of the nature and cause of the accusation; to be confronted with the witnesses against him; to have compulsory process for obtaining witnesses in his favor, and to have the assistance of counsel for his defense.
"I'm interested," Hatch interrupted. He said damaging someone's computer "may be the only way you can teach somebody about copyrights."
... He endorsed technology that would twice warn a computer user about illegal online behavior, "then destroy their computer."
"If we can find some way to do this without destroying their machines, we'd be interested in hearing about that," Hatch said. "If that's the only way, then I'm all for destroying their machines. If you have a few hundred thousand of those, I think people would realize" the seriousness of their actions, he said.
"There's no excuse for anyone violating copyright laws,"
Let's see:
This is a conservative estimate. We would hope it never happens. But if it did, the indirect costs would likely be an order of magnitude or two greater than the direct costs and send the world into a depression. Indirect losses are multiply the dirrect losses and are always compound. The costs of not getting business done is always greater than equipment costs alone. Deadlines pass, contracts fail and everyone is unahppy. Compare this to the cost of 9/11, $80 billion, and Hurriane Andrew, $18 billion. Hey, but that's cheap next to four student's $97 billion in damages to the music industry, right?
Copyright law and it's proponents are either ignrorant, demented or stand to make a proffit. Advocating millions in dollars in damages to protect entertainment revenuse is criminal.
DMCA, Hollings, Palladium. What might have sounded like paranoia is now common sense.
We are low enough. The problem is--whether there are countries with worse corruption than ours or not--the problem[s] with our government are unfixable, short of tearing the whole thing down and starting over from scratch.
And that just ain't gonna happen.
... and help with voter registration down there, if you want to neutralize Hatch and the like in 2004.
After all, aren't the people on Kazaa supporting the terrorists in some way?
Revolutions are never about freedom or justice. They're about who's going to be top dog. -- Kilgore Trout
I say it's almost time that all the geeks in the world get together and just bring the entire God damn Internet down. Bring the best minds together right the best MS virus, DOS anything with an IP address...
Then maybe someone will realize who they're fucking with.
This is the same kind of idea that could have made Prohibition work. Poisin a bunch of illegal liquor and kill a few thousand people. Definitely makes enforcement easier. He could do it today with illegal drugs. What's a few people or computers.
But trashing a few computers won't hurt anyone will they. No sir. Little Joey uses his Dad's network to download some MP3's and all of a sudden the server of a Fortune 1000 company is toast. Too bad it couldn't be the RIAA's or MPAA's, or could it.
Watch out what you wish for. You may get it.
What ever happened to DUE PROCESS? Say Joe Bloe comes into my house/dorm room to borrow my PC and starts downloading copyrighted material and Führer.. er I mean Senator Hatch's computer-killer destroys my machine. Well then I'm punished for a crime I didn't commit without ever being formally accused or tried in court. So they let the copyright owner's do it... that makes them guilty of destruction of private property at a MINIMUM, not to mention a slew of those new-fangled computer crime laws. Elect officials with half a brain so we can stop this dretch from wasting time and tax dollars.
"The best laid plans of mice and men gang oft agley..." - ROBERT BURNS
As for just killing machines on demand, I'd bet Microsoft will include that in future releases of Windows very willingly.
How about P2P on Knoppix, for Windows users... Hell, maybe an OS running a P2P app could be jammed onto one of those little USB drives.
"And a voice was screaming: 'Holy Jesus! What are these goddamn animals?'" - HST
Anyone want to put money on how long it takes some terrorists to really trash the Internet if it is possible to kill a machine remotely?
Allowing this can cause actual human deaths.
Many hospital computers are not HIPAA compliant, have fairly direct internet connections, and are used to download and store mp3's and videos.
Of course the real purpose of these computers are for routing and analyzing patient information, including radiologic images. (xrays, ct, mri, etc).
Given the "right" circumstances, destroying the computer would be homicide.
If someone breaks my window, which costs me money, it's perfectly legal for me to go next door and slash his tires in retribution. Fair is fair, right?
Oh wait...
what a bunch of bullshit
It is so amusing seeing all the people try to tone down what he was saying. . .much like a best man who was drunk at a wedding and said that the groom was an asshole:
.
.isn't this pretty much the same thing?
Best Man: "Yeah, Bob is a an asshole and I hope that bitch broad gives him one hell of a life. . "
Good Friend: "I think that the best man has had a little too good of a time and what he means is. . "
Best Man: "Screw you, I said he was an asshole and I mean it!"
Read below:
"No one is interested in destroying anyone's computer,". .
"I'm interested," Hatch interrupted. He said damaging someone's computer "may be the only way you can teach somebody about copyrights."
Hatch was "apparently making a metaphorical point that if peer-to-peer networks don't take reasonable steps to prevent massive copyright infringement on the systems they create, Congress may be forced to consider stronger measures."
Hatch said. ". . . I'm all for destroying their machines. . . "
" Some legal experts suggested Hatch's provocative remarks were more likely intended to compel technology and music executives to work faster toward ways to protect copyrights online than to signal forthcoming legislation. "
"There's no excuse for anyone violating copyright laws," Hatch said.
Boucher described Hatch's role as chairman of the Judiciary Committee as "a very important position, so when Senator Hatch indicates his views with regard to a particular subject, we all take those views very seriously."
As a side note, what about bullets, descramblers and cables companies. .
Well, it's just like that ancient civilization that may or may not have existed according to several small, unimportant non-Western religions. You steal something, you get your hands cut off. You download copyrighted materials, you get your computer "remotely destroyed," you poop in Sen. Hatch's shoes, you... that remains to be seen.
I myself rather hate the sue-happy atmosphere in America. There are, sure, plenty of cases where the lawsuit is justified; the problem is, so many people sue for the sole reason of getting easy money. Even when the whole lawsuit is wrong.
One solution I've considered (I've not seen if previous ideas like it have been discussed in length; waaay too lazy) is to continue having the lawsuits, but to require the money be given to charity or gov't activities (by that i mean healthcare system or something, not the $600 toilet seats). The idea being, people aren't going to sue to get rich; they're going to sue to punish wrong-doers.
I'm sure humanity and the American legal system would find a way for the corrupt to abuse my idea, as well. Yay.
Bring it on, bitch...I have nothing but bandwidth and time in this Bush economy.
[RIAA] says its concern is artists. That's true, in just the sense that a cattle rancher is concerned about its cattle.
Senator Hatch made an absurd suggestion. He knows quite well that such vigilante justice is illegal in numerous ways. Why would he make such a suggestion?
;-)
I think he actually intends to send the opposite message. He wants to get the public excited about the issue. When people read this, they will be infuriated. He wants people to realize that excessive copyright legislation has been slipping into law over the past few years. He's hoping that once the public is aware of it, they will lobby to reverse the trend toward excessive copyright enforcement.
He sponsored the DMCA, but perhaps he couldn't get it passed without the ambiguous language in section 1201. Perhaps he's now trying to fix that section, but he can't do it without public support.
I know this seems a bit of a stretch, but his suggestion is so crazy that it is quite unreasonable to take him literally. This could be a clever way to meet his real goals.
OTOH, perhaps the insanity of DC traffic has driven him mad. I hear it's a common phenomenon.
can we beat these people with sticks yet?
Do what you can, with what you have, where you are.
Against the law?
Sen. Hatch is head of the Judiciary Committee in the Senate.
He places the judges on the bench in the Federal system and he is on Bush's short list for the Supreme Court (the CJ and Sandra O'Connor are said to be retiring at the end of this term - a week to go).
Justice Hatch isn't going to have a problem with computer bombs.
What next, repatriation of the slaves? It can't be much further to the right than giving record companies the right to blow up people's computers.
I can see it now... someone is downloading something from iTunes... the government sees a copyrighted file being downloaded (even though it is legal) and fries their computer with their nifty new anti piracy weapon, a new laser satellite specifically made to pinpoint in on computers who download illegal music. Personally I bet they would just see who was downloading any mp3 and try to torch em... And to get away with them not being able to do this, get some copyrighted artist and pay him to sit and press a button for them to do it. (Yeah I'm feeling a little sarcastic tonight)
Can you imagine what a virus writer could do once this technology got into the wild ? Imagine a virus that could would wipe out all those PCs, or maybe a select set of IPs ... scary ... hmmm ... wonder what the IP addresses of the RIAA are ?
Bitter and proud of it.
Ya, they can figure you the tech to nuke the guilty parties computer by nothing more than an IP and/or Mac address -- yet we don't have the technology to stop the spammers.
(+1 Funny) only if I laugh out loud.
Why can't I destroy someones computer when they lip me off online?
The old DRM Lobby has been trying a bit too hard. Some old folks in congress have got such a huge misunderstanding of how the machines that power our lives work it's incredible.
BTW, according to netcraft http://www.hatchmusic.com/ is running Apache on Linux.
That means Linus, as well as most other programmers who have worked on Linux or Apache would be able to remotely destroy his site. Bill Gates would be able to destroy 90% of the computers in existence.
I suppose this law would quickly be followed by a law making it illegal to block the port they pick. Or maybe they will just talk to your ISP, go to your house and take your computer. They can cut them up with axes in the street like the old prohibition days. I bet Hatch can remember those days himself. :)
This could be rich. On Orrin Hatch's website he is using the Milonic DHTML menu script quite possibly in violation of copyright and terms of use. Milonic's conditions of use is explicit and includes a requisite link back if not paid for. Guess what kids, no link and in the coders comments is this line: /* i am the license for the menu (duh) */. Within mmenu_license.js there is no indication that this is a paid for version with only the standard language found. Same thing is true for the actual DHTML script, mmenu.js.
It would be quite embarrassing for the good Senaturd from Utah if it was actually found that he himself was a copyright violator, ripping off the hard work of Milonic Solutions Ltd., with all such made public in light of his recent comments. What choice would he have but to rig his own computers and pompous ass for detonation.
Sounds like the MPAA/RIAA special interest ho's have their lips securely placed around Sen Hatch's pecker.
"And that's how a bill becomes law. Any questions class?"
...but you seem to have parked your car slightly over the line in MY parking space. Hold on just a minute while I get my rocket launcher out of the trunk.
Seriously though, all debates on the legality of downloading music aside, how can a US sentaor promote punishing one crime with a more severe one? copyright infringement vs. destruction of property?
I got a free Reese's cup out of the vending machine today because it's broke and doesn't charge for one of it's slots. I suppose I should have my hand cut off or something for eating it instead of returning it.
lighten up man, it's just a joke. I apologies if i have offended you.
-----
One is born into aristocracy, but mediocrity can only be achieved through hard work.
My karma is in excellent status, but once in a while it'd like to breakout of my sainthood and just let it fly; hence my post.
-----
One is born into aristocracy, but mediocrity can only be achieved through hard work.
On all emails to Sen. Hatch, be sure to append: Copyright 2003 All rights reserved Do not copy, forward, backup or in anyway distribute this copyrighted material without explicit permission of the author. Failure to do so, will be cause for immediate retaliation.
General topic of my message? Gun control. "Senator, We have agreed that we will let you place bombs in our computers and blow us up when we illegally copy copyrighted material. But only if you agree to let us put bombs in your car and blow you up whenever we feel like it." Microsoft IntelliMouse Explorer The optical technology developed by Microsoft reaches a new peak of performance, along with superior comfort, flexibility, and stunning good looks. Includes a bomb to blow your hand off if you ever click on copyrighted material...
What Senator Hatch is doing is akin to opening the Pandora Box.
If what he proposes becomes legal, then anyone can bomb anybody elses computer, cars, house, or even body-parts with or without any valid reason.
What type of world will that be ? Even MadMax wouldn't have to face with such a scenario.
I really have no idea why a lunatic like Orin Hatch can get elected to be a Senator Of The United States.
Muchas Gracias, Señor Edward Snowden !
With the way organisations abuse IP rights laying clame to things the don't have any rights to and worse catagoricly classifying whole groups if users as theafs you can see the abuse potental.
Check out SCO claming they own everything ever done in computer technology.
IBMs old antics of the past and Microsofts antics of current.
Music industry clamming to own speahes and artist who can't publish music on Napster becouse of some random idiot who clames it's his music.
And other games.
What's to keep me from claming ownership of ALL standard political arguments and then blowing up computers of politicians I disagree with. I open liccensed my arguments under the 'agree with me' liccens after all and he violated the liccens.
I don't actually exist.
Email or fax your senators. Let them know that you don not approve of these ideas. Mailing Senator Hatch is useless unless you live in Utah.
Click here to find your senators
Here's what I mailed my senators:
Dear Sir,
Senator Orrin G. Hatch made statements about destroying computers belonging to suspected online file traders.
He said "Damaging someone's computer may be the only way you can teach somebody about copyrights."
He acknowledged Congress would have to enact an exemption for copyright owners from liability for damaging computers. He endorsed technology that would twice warn a computer user about illegal online behavior, then destroy their computer.
I feel that he needs to be reminded of the fact that we already have a system in place to handle issues like this. It's our justice system, and in our justice system, people are presumed innocent until proven guilty. We can't have copyright owners destroying computers because they think their work may have been illegally obtained.
I just wanted to make sure you are aware of Senator Hatch's remarks and let you know that I am not in support of anything that would give copyright owners more power than our justice system.
Respectfully,
Common sense is not so common.
I just proposed a bill of my own. HR-1952. Here it is in it's entirety:
HR-1952
Drafted Tuesday, June 17th, 2003.
Revision I
Sponsored by Rep. Proc K. Core I-AZ
We propose that the Senator known as Orrin Hatch shall here-by be known as "Senator FuckNut", active immediately.
It hasn't passed the house yet, but we have every confidence in it.
Well, there's a serious side to this idea, and a stupid one. The stupid side is that if the copyright nazis really want to get you, they're gonna have to have you install some kind of malware ahead of time (like the Kaza deluxe RIAA special platinum edition), so they have the ability to mess you with when you piss them off. Which is obviously stupid, but got me thinking.
On a more serious note, what if the RIAA set up their own file sharing network, which (bear with me here), was actually good enough that people would use it? They're supposed to be here to help promote art (in it's audio form) and distribute recordings. Why don't they set up a service to do so? It could go through their central servers, so they could monitor the files and make sure that nobody was downloading non-free files. And if you wanted to download non-free files, you could pay for them.
The fatal flaw is that they'd have to encourage enough good artists to make songs available for free (the way many will do with live recordings or a limited number of sample songs), and/or charge reasonable prices for non-free songs. Capitalism is a double edged sword: you can charge an arm and a leg for something, bun only as long as people are willing to pay.
set up us
Gotta love those crazy asians (crasians?)
I'm not american, but I hope that he'll read it anyway...
Senator Hatch,
I've recently read a AP story where you were quoted saying that you would be ready to pass a law that grants the power to a copyright owner to destroy the computer of someone who downloads copyrighted material off the Internet. While I totally agree with you that copyright infrigement has to be dealt with, I believe that your stance on the situation is an ill-informed one.
First of all, computers aren't used by only one person. Most of the time a computer is shared by a whole family. They are also used shared by thousands of students in schools. Why does the wrong actions of only one person has to have negative repercusions on the rest of the people?
Also, I'm sure you are aware that the Internet is a highly volatile and impredictable place, where the identity of a user cannot always be 100% sure. Don't you think that such drastic measures are dangerous? You might target the computer of an innocent person. Or target a computer that has been hijacked by an hacker. I don't think you'd want innocent people to be harmed in any way.
Third, even if that law would pass IN THE United States, do you really think you have the right to attack computers around the globe based on your US law? I would have thought better from a man who is representing a state. You don't have the right to impose your law on the rest of the world.
Lastly, as you may have seen, I am not from the United States. In fact, I'm from Québec, Canada. I write to you, even tought you don't represent my province or my country, because I think that in this case, you are advocating something that is wrong and that would set a dangerous precedent if it were to happen.
I sincerely hope that you were misquoted, or that you have since then reconsidered your position on the issue.
Regards,
I don't live in the US, but if this affects me, wouldn't it be an International act of terrorism?
...would do better to stick to his fascinating musical career. He has done more to make a fool of his party's agenda, but not as much as some. What a schmuck!!
I imagine myself some day investigating unexpected web server problems and finding 2 warnings and a message saying that all writeable files have been erased because it found an html file containing the word "Metallica."
He is a moron, and there is no sense getting worked up over something so insane. The idea to give people the right to destroy someone elses property would yield far more disasterous results then some bullshit copyright infringement. I gaurantee that any such power would quickly turn on those who developed and choose to use it. Thank you to h4X0rS!
Mr Hatch,
See this? This is my dick. Suck it.
I found it interesting that the article mentioned that Hatch, as a music composer, earned $18,000 in royalties last year. Aha! But don't song-writers generally get a better deal out of the current system than the poor blokes who actually sing? That's why everyone wants to write their own music these days, and why noone is interested in singing the old stuff (which is generally better IMO) I wonder, does Hatch know this?
"Only copyright holders should have this, because the feds doing it would be illegal"
I'm sorry, did I miss that somewhere in the article? Where does it remotely imply this?
Where does anything?
Did I miss the part in the BOR that says "No person may be deprived of life, liberty, or property by the federal government without due process of law"? Or are you just a complete fucking moron adding your own stupid and completely false comments to submissions so that you can brag to other morons "HUR HUR HUR I GOT ON SLASHDOT I AM SO FUCKING HOMOSEXUAL IT HURTS MY ANUS"?
Ummm... did you even bother to read the article before writing your troll?
The senator, a composer who earned $18,000 last year in song writing royalties, acknowledged Congress would have to enact an exemption for copyright owners from liability for damaging computers. He endorsed technology that would twice warn a computer user about illegal online behavior, "then destroy their computer."
All right folks, I admit that I used to pirate music on a regular basis, but my computer is an eMachine, so come and get it, ORRIN. I can't escape to conclusion that some sort of limited IP rights are a good thing, and that they should be protected. But is this really how we want to solve our problems? To be fair, the law would have to allow someone to pillage the record company's machines if a mistake is made. This would promptly degenerate into a high tech-high dollar pissing contest. Nothing more. I really do think this would be amusing as hell, but again, is this how we want to solve our problems? Can anybody here think of other situations where the original fault was forgotten and the reprisals got out of control? Please don't think that any sane person would equate one race group hacking up another with machettes for God knows what reason with a few million smoked computers, but wouldn't the psychology be pretty much the same after awhile? Maybe this would be easy fun, after all, whose computers are worth more? A creative professional's or some freak that has time to drill this far down in a /. thread?
Cheers
Why do I have this? I don't smoke.
It is possible now. Luckily, everyone who is smart enough to do so isn't stupid enough to try.
This does raise an interesting question: if the pro-"cyber"terrorists in congress pass a law making it legal to damage a computer for alleged copyright infringement, will they also force Microsoft and other OS developers to put in security holes which terrorists can use?
I heard Hatch published some hymns on Napster. Is he stupid? Doesn't he realize even if he owns copyright or has permission, he will be attacked by the cartel--assuming they don't realize he is a senator? Everyone who publishes is at risk under such a system. The cartel doesn't care if they destroy an innocent person's computer. In fact, they have a huge incentive to do so: any form of publishing they don't have control over is competition.
This is quite possibly the stupidest, most careless disregard of constitutional law that I have ever seen. So I'm thinking that maybe we should all hold a slashdot-readers' file-sharing day where everyone busts out their p2p and downloads every copyrighted file they can find. Oh yeah, that's right... that's kinda like every day for me... but it's still a good idea, if you got more people involved in it. You know, cuz the RIAA has made us their bitch for too long, and that way, we could make them our bitch. I love vigilante justice! Poontang masturbation boobies!
-Speedomask
This reminds me of someone who proposed, not long ago, to chop down forests to prevent fires.
We should start research remote assassination of corrupt politicans. A system where the politican gets two warnings before termination would be preferable, but it is no requirement.
Isn't protecting your own property with deadly force considered self defence in (some parts of) the US?
- Ost
---- Sig. gone.
This is what happens when a cartel controls the market, and a cartel does control movies and music. A fair market will usually translate into "profit margins in area X suck." Luckily one can completely do without movies and music, however if they start restricting and committing acts of terrorism against communication technologies (such as the internet), then we are all screwed.
You may not think the internet is an essential communication system, but you are wrong. Just think of the slammer worm and how it caused all sorts of problems--such as ATMs not working. Essential services are thousands of times more important than entertainment. There are also many ways copyright law has been abused to suppress free speech. Free speech is thousands of times more important than entertainment. Yet many asshats don't understand or care. What's the point of living in a "free" country if all your freedoms will be taken away, or you/your property will be attacked if you exercise your supposed freedoms?
Some legal experts suggested Hatch's provocative remarks were more likely intended to compel technology and music executives to work faster toward ways to protect copyrights online than to signal forthcoming legislation.
Others believe the senator is just talking out of his ass.
Here's his "contact me" web form.
= Offices.Contact
http://www.senate.gov/~hatch/index.cfm?FuseAction
Be sure to include a copyright notice
in your message. You might want to
specify some restrictions like no
backups, no copies, no printouts,
no tape storage, no conversion, etc.
Yeah if someone touches my computer they crossed the line. I'm gonna be at his office guns blazing.
I'm Mormon and have lived in Utah for all but 4 years of my life. I usually end up voting about 50/50 republican/democrat.
Not all of us vote straight ticket.
Hatch has a personal interest, since I'm sure his music [hatchmusic.com] is pirated on a regular basis. ;)"
Ahhhhhhahahahahaha!!! Do yourself a favor and KaZaa a few Hatch MP3s. You'll be begging for Celine Dion!! Mark my words!
... an oboe!
Just in case you don't know, if you check a Mac Powerbook as baggage, you will shatter the screen as the baggage compartment depressurizes, midflight.
... also concluded that the Germans, in checking for possible avian flu at the time, and broken the laptop and also sprayed his clothing with some fluid, probably disinfectant.
This was my experience. My brother was coming, and bringing a laptop I had purchased with him. I asked him "please take it with you, don't check it." He decided it would be safer checked, and...
No.
That was LCD fluid, which leaked out because the screen shattered in midflight. The baggage compartment depressurizes.
Now, I don't know about other computers, but it may be the same. Indeed, it probably will be the same.
In the same line of thought, don't check your grandma's little poodle as baggage. It Would Not Be A Good Idea (TM).
Correct Horse Battery Staple: 72 bits of entropy. Enter "Correct H" into google. When it generates the phrase, that's
Funny, a few years ago, Hatch was pro Napster and anti-Microsoft. What bribes can do.
You know little about Utah politics. 99% of the time, the Republican candidate wins by default, with a Democrat or Libertarian candidate far behind--assuming one bothered to run. I have to wonder if they sometimes put shill candidates in the Dem. box. Take for example the last election and Rep. Cannon's competition: Nancy Jane Woddside. Reading her material, it seemed if she became elected, there would be curfews and soldiers on the streets ready to shoot anyone on sight. May as well have been voting for Hitler.
We might as well use Bochs in order to prevent this. Guess he never thought of that (VMware and Virtual PC might actually pass the self-destruct command to your main system)
OK, so what happens if I just happen to have lying around in my memory a program that detects intrusion and counter-attacks anybody trying to mess with my machine...
Seriously though, this is like capital punishment for PCs. It's basically their way of saying "well, we have no idea who the actual PEOPLE are that are downloading this stuff, but let's punish them anonymously!"
Plus, what happens if someone is using a PC at work or school or a netcafe to run filesharing software? Should the owner of the computer be responsible, or the person using it at the time? I should think it would be the latter, in which case this method is flawed again.
Senator Hatch has clearly gone off the deep end. In no other situation is a citizen allowed to inflict get-even damage on someone against whom he has a grievance. Hatch and others liken copyright infringement to thieves driving off with a stolen tv. The desired mental image is of the rightfully enraged homeowner shooting out the tires to recover his property.
In light of Hatch's apparent loss of brain function, I would like to make a simple but underrated point about copyright. Copyright violation is not theft. It's just called theft by people who have a financial interest in calling it theft. There is no need to call it that. Defacing a billboard with spraypaint is called vandalism, not theft of display space. Setting fire to somebody's house is called arson, not theft of firewood. Parking in a bus zone is a traffic violation, not theft of parking.
Copyright is the government's way of giving one person an exclusive right. People who have copyrights are copyright "holders." They don't "own" anything. This is not just a semantic nitpick, it's an important distinction. Copyright law is like the law that allows the person in the right-hand lane to turn after stopping at the red light, but not the person in the left-hand lane. Distributing copies without permission may be against the law, but it's not "theft of content" any more than turning from the left lane at a stoplight is "theft of turning." There's nothing to steal.
It's unfortunate that our system has evolved to allow people to sell copyrights, for it creates the misconception of ownership, miscasting infringement in terms that are familiar but inappropriate -- the image of the unwashed pirate stealing the dubloons.
If we look at copyright for what it really is (permission granted by the government) instead of how the copy-making industry wants us to see it (sacred property forming the bedrock of the economy), then proposals like Senator Hatch's are even more ridiculous. We might as well authorize people to ram cars that cut them off in traffic (theft of lane position).
On the other hand, my neighbor across the street planted some trees several years ago that have shot up to twice the height of his house, and are blocking my once-panoramic view of Puget Sound. If only I could legally firebomb them to thwart his aggregious theft of my view...
Bribes. Go to opensecrets.org, and check out Hatch's contributors. AOL/TW, Disney, Viacom.
I find that comment inflammatory. There are many more reasons to buy a computer than "piracy" as the cartel calls it. Word processing, email, video games, the web, etc. Yeah sure, Joe Blow may have heard he can get some "free" music with a computer and internet access, but for the same price he can buy 20 CDs and a gun to shoot himself when they all suck ass.
Funny, there is becoming nearly as much "piracy" of movies as music. The same amount if you count all the short video/audio clips and screen captures. So why do so many people attribute lower music sales with "piracy"? Could it be the music "industry" is really just selling a buch of crap?
"I am writing with regards to your comments regarding file sharing on the Internet as reported today by The Associated Press via The Washington Post (http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A62 41-2003Jun17.html).
You, Sen. Hatch, are quoted by the article as follows: "'I'm interested,' Hatch interrupted. He said damaging someone's computer 'may be the only way you can teach somebody about copyrights.'"
I am disgusted, as are many of my fellow techies, about your remarks. Essentially you have stated that you favor giving corporations the right to take vigilante action against consumers SUSPECTED of violating copyright laws. The key word is SUSPECTED. That's right. We consumers are guilty until proven innocent.
The last time I heard of a sense of justice this lopsided was with the Internal Revenue Service.
Sen. Hatch, I do not use file sharing programs, nor do I pirate music or software either. I will permit the U.S. government, federal, state or local to execute the laws of this country, but I will not permit you nor your colleagues in our legislative body to cede the powers allotted to you to corporate America."
...an unreleased copy of a new video game that's coming out next year that uses a bootleg version of a song by Milli Vanilli that Orrin Hatch wrote for it's menu music? I've got a cd crack and everything included in the zip file...
You fuck with my shit and I whack you.
I'll get a gun and hunt you down. I'll walk up to you while you are putting your keys in your ignition and shoot you in the head right in the parking lot. You'll never fuck up another computer, bitch....
and one little vunerability and your computer is toast. mmm toast, the other white bread.
I know you are psychotic, but please make an effort.
All this discussion is great and I think that it's good that we're aware of what's happening, but I think it's about time to stop getting pissed off by the actions that government takes and start to DO something about it.
Would you rather bitch and wait around for the axe to fall, or take the energy you're spending and do something (hopefully) constructive? Write your state Senator and Representatives and remind them what a fscking nutcase Orrin Hatch is (unless you're really a fan of that bass-ackwards right wing freak) and what alternatives they can seek in lieu of computer destruction.
There are many other tactics that can be taken to somehow prevent file sharing. Tougher penalties, ISP intervention, establishment of a fair pay system for music/movies (ala iTMS) that doesn't rip off the consumer (to be honest, I don't want the government involved in my commerce, but it's just a suggestion) or maybe VOTE THOSE REPUBLICAN MORONS OUT of office.
>What happened to due process?
it's still locked up in guantanamo bay. Sadly, this is very, very american, or at the very least consistent with american policy of the last couple of years.
No one can understand the truth until he drinks of coffee's frothy goodness.
--Sheikh Abd-Al-Kadir, 1587
This is slightly offtopic, but fresh in my mind, and I think appropriate. I just read this book, Addicted to War: Why the US Can't Kick Militarism and am feeling especially negative towards the government, and current state of affairs. After reading this book, it is more clear to me than ever the level of hippocrisy that occurs in our country. I was always very cynical, and suspicious (and always trust my sense of things, rather than mass-media's interpretation) but this book puts everything into perspective, and goes back much further than the past 100 years...Its in comic book style, but full of quotes and historical references, all backed up by over 100 references. It concentrates on militarism, but is just as relevant to and touches on media and big business (as they are basically all related).
I recommend it to all slashdotters, and anyone who cares about the role the US government takes in peoples lives.
playing this on your pc should do it.
pr0n - keeping monitor glass spotless since 1981.
SALT
first 8)
I always feel the punishment should fit the crime. We need to write a virus that once running on any networked computer, hunts down any and all computer resources belonging to Sen. Hatch and the RIAA, and then proceeds to burn those assets to the ground.
For yucks attach the virus to Metalica recordings.
Better yet, make the triggering of the virus contingent on the receptions of a broadcast code that is only sent when and if Hatch succeeds in passing an obscene law giving copywrite holders the ability to legally destroy other people's property.
GeNdA BeNdTe
--In the beginning there was the WORD, we've yet to determine it's byte length...
18 June 2004
Gordon B. Hinckley
President
The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints
50 West North Temple Street
Salt Lake City, Utah 84150
http://www.lds.org
The Honorable Orrin Hatch
135 Russell Senate Office Building
Washington, D.C. 20510
http://www.senate.gov/~hatch
Dear President Hinckley and Senator Hatch,
I am very, very sorry that we cannot come to an agreement to bridge the differences between us on this issue. However, as Senator Hatch's law stated directly, the importance of protecting ones' coprights is paramount over all other issues, and demands the highest priority.
I hope you understand that the actions we have taken and are about to take to protect oursevles in this matter, which follows the guidelines that Senator Hatch set out last year in his speech to the US Senate Judiciary Committee.
In my encyclical of last September, I made it perfectly clear that the Roman Catholic Church was unwilling to tolerate further theft of copyright and theft of concept regarding its well-known properties Jesus Christ (tm) and its variants and the various and sundry trademarked images and copyrighted concepts of the Passion, the Crucifixion, the Sermon on the Mount, etc. The encyclical, as you remember, gave sixty (60) days for all churches violating those copyrights and trademarks to accomplish a licensing deal with RCC.
Within that sixty-day period, I had received compliance on this issue with the Church of England, Church of Scotland, and numerous Protestant denominations. In fact, the discussions were quite fruitful, and I hope that Senator Hatch will be among the official United States delegation to the Reunification Mass at Westminster Abbey this autumn.
Also, as you know, after the sixty-day period was up, I released a follow-up encyclical giving a second warning, as Senator Hatch had provided for in the aforementioned discussion. After the second encyclical, most of the other holdouts, including the Russian and Greek Orthodox Churches the various Baptist sects in the southern United States, and even J. K. Rowling, acknowledged our rights and made licensing deals.
The LDS Church, however, did not. The deadline for compliance passed on 15 June 2004, and thereforde, we will have to take the following actions:
1) Any religion following the precepts of the teachings of Jesus Christ (tm) will be required, as part of the licensing terms, to acknowledge that you no longer have any rights to use those teachings as part of your religious philosophy. Your people, should they not convert to a license-compliant religion, are damned to Hell, never to see the face of God.
2) All LDS temples will be destroyed by crack squadrons of Swiss Guards.
3) All copies of the Book Of Mormon will be seized and pulped. All copies of the Holy Bible not endorsed by a license-compliant religion will be seized and pulped. However, in the interest of compromise, we will allow you limited copyright use of Jesus Christ (tm) in the name of your religion.
4) No LDS service shall use any of RCC's trademarked phrases or any copyrighted concepts. Also, various Lutheran demoninations have requested that we act as a clearance house for their copyright on the serving of punch and cookies after services. On their behalf, we are denying your use of this as well.
5) Brigham Young University will be turned over to the Society of Jesus.
6) All intellectual property allegedly belonging to the Mormon Tabernacle Choir will be confiscated and, as a penalty, placed under permanent copyright of the RCC. The Choir itself will be retrained to sing Gregorian chants.
7) Donny Osmond shall be provided with a high-ranking Franciscan for a manager.
Any and all resistance to these measures will be dealt with in the highest of terms.
We apologize in advance for the inconvenience this will give you, but you put it upon yourselves by failing to respect copyright and trademark.
Yours in Christ,
His Holiness John Paul II
CEO and COO, Roman Catholic Church, LLC
http://www.vatican.va
If using Linux is about choice, how come people complain when I choose to use Windows?
Bi-partisanship at its finest!
If the Goverment had a technology that allowed remote destruction of computers. How long would it stay exclusive to the Goverment?
I am very sick of this. Screw you OSDN slashdot. I liked you before there were ads and this gd system. Cmdr Taco, this *was* a cool site. But obviously, I am NOT going to post anymore.
Screw you all, I hope you end up settling with the RIAA.
I am sick of telling people about the DMCA in 2000...noone listened.
Now I tell you, hey, there are these things called laws.
Screw this mod crap.
Computers would be being destroyed by the millions from a virus using this technology. Technically this Sen. Hatch is an idiot. If U.S. companies want this, so be it, but don't even think twice about using it elsewhere.
With new trojans being able to send an email to every computer on earth within 15 minutes, imagine the explosions!
I'll bet the computer manufacters would love this.
You know the term "ShitBox" ?
That is the P133 that is doing fileserver/edonkey on my network.
They can blast it to death if they want.
A replacement costs...50â ? max...
And I must have 2-3 PII with mobo in my "stuff pile".
Ah ! I forgot.
The first one that burn my server for fun will find himself in front of a Badass Script Oldie that just decided that it was time to show the kiddies what a real multi level ddos (Demonic Denial Of Service) can do.
Havoc and War ? Well, they just asked for it...
What happens when they wipe out computers belonging to traders at the New York Stock Exchange? Investment bankers? White House? Congress itself? Department of Defense? *AA major label computers? The WETA renderfarm? What makes anyone think that the damage will be limited to the USA?
Everybody who voted to legalize black-hat bullshit is going to be in seriously deep shit. Guess who they are going to try to unload the blame on? Guess what the Congressional hearings investigating the *AA members and the *AAs themselves will look like?
No matter how good immunity provisions are protecting *AA and its scr1pt k1dd13z, the best legal minds in America will be working 24/7 to figure out how to bypass the provisions to make it possible to file both civil suits and criminal charges against corporations and individually against corporate officers... and these corporate officers won't be going to country-club prisons. They're going into cells along with people named "Bubba". Perhaps they can be found in violation of RICO and the Patriot Act. While the PATRIOT Act is an abomination, something tells me that if the *AA label CEOs suddenly find themselves in Guantanamo Bay, even their own attorneys won't be lifting a finger to defend them. If they have any sense, they'll be looking for places they can't be legally extradited from.
A recent estimate says that there are 43,000,000 file traders. Even if they miraculously only limit the damage to the "guilty", some of those machines are going to be critical to somebody bigger than the *AA organizations, their member labels, or their owners.
So they ratfuck only 10,000,000 computers, some "innocent", some loaded with MP3s ripped by the legal owners of the CDs, some with MP3s of non-*AA content? The aggregate value of the data is going to be far above the current net worth of the labels combined. I don't actually expect damage to be this bad, I think any netblock RIAA black hats work out of will be disconnected by their upstream providers *quickly*.
It's time for the major players in the *AA organizations to go down.
They want to commit suicide? Encourage them..
And look to your firewalls and IDS.
Tech Public Policy stuff
"I'm interested," Hatch interrupted. He said damaging someone's computer "may be the only way you can teach somebody about copyrights."
With the possibility of hundreds of emails from spam sending you copyrighted materials, how will you know you just did something wrong, accepting someones email?
Clearly this Sen. Hatch is well and truly out of touch with reality, and I question not only his intelligence, but his right to stay in his position of power
I don't understand why Orrin Hatch, a republican, wants to give the RIAA and MPAA more power than the CIA or NSA. What doesn't make sense in particular is that the entertainment industry is the biggest contributing group to the democratic party. If they lose money, so do the democrats, which is good for the republican party, and ultimitely, his job. This in addition to the fact that this proposed legislation is so obviously morally wrong makes this very strange to me.
if it is OS then it will be M$ and people will convert readily to Linux (WooHoo) or its hardware and people will vote with their wallets and simply buy stuff from non major brands.
Either way this will fail.
ERR 411[Max number of witty sigs reached]
I'm sitting next to an AIX box. How long until it explodes in my face?
"I Know You Are But What Am I?"
Was going to moderate this thread, but I can't help but comment.
I have a feeling that if a bill allowing something like this goes through, it will be open season on the RIAA/MPAA/BSA/etc. Given how the RIAA's website was hit after the lawsuits, I'm pretty sure it'd be down permanently. And I would think that RIAA/MPAA/BSA/etc members would be hit hard as well. And I'm not talking just online. I could foresee real world action being taken: vandalism, theft, perhaps even arson or bombings. It'd be anarchy.
Something like this must not...um...hrm...destroying the RIAA/MPAA/BSA/etc...okay, I have no objections. Bring it on.
They are perpetuating an unlawfully implied state of war. It would be foolish to not fight back. I know of some verry wicked, wroth people that believe "might makes right." I sat down and thought about that...true. Jesus Christ was mighty, and he is the bastian of much of freedom and kindness especialy. As Jesus stated, we should agree with our adversaries. Thus, we should agree with Senator Orin Hath, conditionaly, upon proof that his claim of destroying computers will prevent illegal copyright license transfers and duplication--not possible, not reasonable, affords no duties, protects no rights; brother Hatch needs some enlightenment, or perhaps he is looking at the entire situation from the perspective of a fool...[who] will seek Microsoft for a eCommerce solution. This brings another statment from the Bible: keep our enemies closer to us [...]. Although Orin Hatch doesn't share my same belief in the Bible, should I not entreat him with kindness as I would to myself as once being a misled man? Kindness speaks novels, fellow slashdotters. My challenge to everyone, including those modded funny:
Agree with your adversary, with condition, upon truth, in your commercial liability. Liars don't risk gold, because truth is sovereign.
MS didn't get this measure of market penetration from people actually buying Windows.
Imagine if, every time anyone installs an illegal copy of Longhorn, their computer explodes. Come to think of it, that may not be such a bad thing...
Thats the funniest thing i've heard in a long time. Blowing up computers!!!! These idiots run your country. Sorry.....mod me down but doesn't anybody else find this funny......and sad at the same time.
-- Karma Karma Karma Karma, Karma Chameleon - Boy George
...steal with your hand and get your hand cut off. Hamurabi is now appending "steal with your computer and your computer will combust."
When you downloaded this post, you gave me the right to destroy your computer.
Pirating is the single best thing you can do to help the industry and remove a monopoly.
Who cares about laws which we didnt have any say on when they were made?
If someone makes a law outlawing computers you are one of the people who would throw your computer in the trash. If a new law said you cant eat beef, you are the one who would stop eating it, if a new law came into place saying you had to let the government install cameras all over your house to prevent terrorism you'd let them do it.
If you use Linux, please help development of Autopac
Because I'm not an idiot I'm a genius.
Learn how to get modded up before you make comments Mr.Coward.
Theres a reason I have nearly infinite Karma, theres a reason I get modded up on almost every post.
If you use Linux, please help development of Autopac
If I couldn't find someone to pay, I'd even go so far as to cut off the hard drive with my pocket leatherman. Hmm, did I mention I'd be doing this while rock climbing in Utah? No? Would you believe while parachuting from ten thousand feet over the Grand Canyon? Aw, forget it! *stomps away dejectedly*
1) a comment that carries no significant political/voting booth cost from his base constituency of Utahns, but
2) serves to give the national debate a swift kick to one side. The reactions to such a goofy extreme comment will immediately draw more attention to the issue than one could buy, and (very subtly) draw all sides to quicker DRM "solutions" (because by defining the crazy as a "possibility," the borders have been redrawn).
Hatch is full of it in many ways but isn't stupid. This is a calculated, no-cost public statement (he's a pro at it, the average /.er is not) that he doesn't intend to pursue. Not to be cynical, but it's certainly nothing to get apoplectic about. Write your representatives about the DMCA instead.
(using pf here)
# assuming 1.2.0.0 is the network
# where the terminating signal computer
# is located)
block in all from 1.2.0.0/16
# assuming the 'kill' signal is interpreted by
# the OS as a 'kill' protocol.
block in all proto kill
I don't know about anyone else, but I get a bit sick of people assuming that everyone who owns a computer must be in the US, and therefore falls under US rule. Maybe this is what they mean by power-projection. Anyway thats my rant. Just to clarify, I have nothing against US people, I just wish US people wouldn't assume I either (a) am or (b) necessarily want to be a citizen of the greatest place on earth :)
...what I want to know is, how exactly is he planning on destroying my computer?
"I don't care about the Constitution!" --Bill O'Reilly, November 17, 2009
I can't believe this story. Isn't it legal to download copyrighted songs if you are doing so for backup purposes? This system assumes that everyone downloading music is in breech of copyright law, and while that may be true in most cases, it is not true in all cases. If a single innocent person has his or her system obliterated, the remote-destroy program is a complete failure. A computer need not be allowed to act as judge, jury, and executioner. I'm sure that Orrin Hatch will take a lot of heat for this proposal.
This is un-American.
Oh, the humanity!
It's also unjust, immoral & (up till now) illegal. This is the real issue.
Is that destroy as in launching 16 SCUD missiles armed with nuclear warheads against the home of a filesharer? ....Or as in installing a pesky virus that doesent work in linux?
GAAH! MY PRINTER IS ON FIRE!!! PUT IT OUT! PUT IT OUT!
He's not talking about making the computers blow themselves up, but rather authorising a particular class of aggrieved parties to take justice into their own hands. That's vigilanteism, and I thought everyone agreed that was a bad thing.
What's next? More along the lines of letting crossing guards fire bazookas at cars, or letting me smash my neighbour's garage door down because he won't return my tools.
On another point, Sen. Hatch is a song-writer, and is on/contolling a comittee looking into copyright enforcement. Isn't that a major conflict of interest? Don't you Americans have rules about that?
Politas
DoesnÂt the 'land of the free' have a 14th Amendment that mentions something about "due process of law"??
Also, People who release GPL'd software will be able to Nuke anyone using Proprietry Software which contains stolen GPL'd code. So... anyone who's contributed to the Linux Kernel should be able to nuke anyone using SCO Unixware.
return 0; }
AND, the Mormon Church does not endorse the Republican party. Many members of the church in Utah do lean towards the conservative side of issues, but Mormon Church leaders have ALWAYS encouraged members to choose candidates for themselves. I remember an article in the Salt Lake Tribune from about 2 years ago where one of the Mormon Church leaders (Marlin Jensen), who happens to be a registered democrat, actively made the case for the Democratic party.
Now I live in Massachusetts, where on my most recent voting ticket most Democratic candidates run unopposed. Interesting contrast.
If technology enabled individuals to steal other's property, what is the problem with technology that prevents them from doing that? Those who cry foul are just using a convenient double standard.
Really.
Well, since there are no legal repercussions, only physical ones, I say we all get our old 486's, install Slackware, and give them the finger. Put it inbetween you and your ISP. Rip a bunch of legally owned CD's to said machine(So this is 100% legal,) and then sit back, and wait. Wait approximately 20 years. Sue over lost "antique" hardware.
So if you steal my car I should be able to blow up your house?
reading and replying to this article already got you time-dos'd ... errr.. wups.
how many megs could we have up/down-loaded if we
wouldn't have read this article?
In Iran, you can have your hand cut off for stealing. I'd hate to hear his solution if one was accused of rape ! Do we really want to model our laws after Iran ?
only the copyright owner should be able to wield this awesome power, since having the feds do it would be against the law.
Why should the police catch ciminals? They shouldn't be allowed to do that! Let them do more paperwork! Enforcing the law is a task for victims!
Then name them terrorists, and it's ok and very American with no trial, to not only destroy their property, but also kill them.
-H
How long would it take before the computer of someone at the House or Senate gets destroyed from something like this? Weither be accident (oops, that really wasn't file sharing) or someone was actually trading (One of the Policy enforcement people at the ISP I work for trades...he just conviently forgets it's against the user agreement when it comes to him...)
"Mary, do you have that bill I need to present to the Senate today?"
"Um...."
Hatch (as in booby-hatch) finally opened his mouth once too much and now everyone realizes the sad truth: The Senator is unfortunately quite insane!
Obviously any big downloaders will disable this hardware feature with a patch that is released instantaneously, but on the other hand (and considering all the evil closed source software on everyone's pcs these days) this law will make payback^H^H^H^H^H^H^Hfeedback to RIAA, Senators, and friends a slowly savored delight. Certainly nobody in Mr. Hatch's family, or office would have any improperly liscensed materials on their machines.. And if they are behind a router why then the router will have to be trashed as well!
This is the best thing that's happened yet, history will no doubt place Sen. Hatch on the pinnacle of gross, power hungry, inane fanatics when the subject of the decline of the U.S. in the eyes of the world at the beginning of the 21st century is discussed. How quaint! Just makes me nostalgic for the 90's don't you just know it.
Well I think they may have a bit of difficulty in getting past my defences in order to try and "destroy" my computer.
Mind you its not your average sort of defence. More a slashdotter type defence.
Namely a locked down NSA SE Linux box with strict access control and user privieges on the eDonkey client - so even if they do have someway of hacking into the program it they would be very restricted in what they could do.
On top of that the iptables firewall has been programmed to block all traffic to and from the p2p filesharer to those IP addresses listed as copyright police.
That should keep them out....
Here is the comment I posted on Hatches' site.
I recently read your comments at a judiciary hearing on the subject of copyright violation. I was sickened. You, sir, disgust me. Your words speak of a slimy, morally disgusting action and label it as "right". You personally make me ashamed to have anything in common with Utah. The "Rights" you speak of that are being violated are not the rights of the American people. They are the rights of a priveledged few to extort money out of "owning" ideas, thoughts, and information. You make me sick.
Also, where is your privacy policy? How do I know my personal information will not be sold to the highest bidder?
A Free Man,
Robert Wheelwright
I did NOT learn everything I need to know in kindergarten.
This guy is past fucked up
His vigilante justice plea reminds me of everything they told us about MacCarthyism in the 1950's. If you are even suspected of doing something illegal in the eyes of the Corporation you will be e-Executed without a trial or even a review of the evidence. This Middle Ages shit.
What's even more fucked up is that MacCarthy was doing his gig for the good of America and to keep all your children safe from Commie-Bastards of the world.
This guy is doing it for the good of the Corporations of America and none of those involved give a flying turd about the safety of your children, your dog, or your political doctrines.
Hatch should be removed from office as he is a danger to the People of America. He does not represent those who Elected him. He does not represent their interests.
He is attempting to by-pass the Justice system and therefore breakdown the infrastructure of the American System of Government as defined in the Constitution of the United States and defended my countless millions throughout history.
He should be charged with Treason
1) So copyright holders are guaranteed access to any and every computer system in the universe, right? (NSA, Chinese gov't, all those broadcast signals going to Alpha Centauri, etc.)
:(
2) The user gets 2 warnings, then a destroyed computer. Time delay between warnings? Ability to respond? Or are the warning just so we know it's time to unhook the computer from the net? (or is that illegal?)
3) Good way to trash anyone else's computer, right? Plant an MP3 on MS's development servers, change a filename on the IRS' servers to be an MP3's title, etc., watch the machines die. No due process, and after RIAA's done, no evidence to the contrary (you'd have to throw files on their log servers, etc. to be sure)...
Let the fun begin
8-PP
This is a brand new spectacular idea! It would be a computer program that is meant to DESTROY your data! I could spread from computer to computer by itself so people don't have to do it manually! Then it would monitor what you do on your computer, and if that was download illegal materials it could just ruin your partition table!
Wow. So they've reinvented the virus. Does Sen. I Have No Idea How Computers Work understand that these malicious programs have been around for years and don't take out people's computers? It'd just be a new reason to run McAfee.
I haven't posted in so long, my sig is out of date.
...to bring down a corporate network. Get a cheap PC (or even a Sega Dreamcast with a network adaptor), and hook it up inside some out-of-the-way closet in a company, and have it search for copyrighted mp3's, and periodically download them. Then the Hatch-bot sees the traffic, and sends the "blow-up" message to the company's router. Poof! really angry company.
There are no tiger attacks in my area and it's all because this rock I'm holding keeps the tigers away.
(This isn't what I'd write to a Slashdot audience, but it *was* targetted at getting a Senator to wake up... This posting is in the public domain. --LP)
4 1-2003Jun17.html
I am writing about your recent remarks reported in the Washington Post: http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A62
'If we can find some way to do this without destroying their machines, we'd be interested in hearing about that," Hatch said. "If that's the only way, then I'm all for destroying their machines. If you have a few hundred thousand of those, I think people would realize" the seriousness of their actions, he said.'
I take grave exception to your remarks that destroying computers would be an acceptable, in-extremis, remedy for copyright owners to take to protect their computers. And I say this as someone who loves music, listens to it on his computer, and has nothing to fear, as I do not copy music illegally over the Internet out of the recognition you speak of.
Such an idea, allowing one private entity to destroy another's computers, lacking due process or appealability or anything like that is totally anathema to a fair system of justice and is totally shocking coming from a senator of your stature.
People store their lifeblood of their work and personal correspondence on computers.
Any lack of protection of that is not only stupid from a computer science security point of view, but goes directly against the point of the Fourth Ammendment. If Thomas Jefferson had copied some musical recording of a British artist, you would allow the British artist's record company to burn all Jefferson's papers?!
I watched your hearings with the RIAA on CSPAN2 a couple years ago and I thought you had a reasonably nuanced position of trying to push the industry to recommend measures Congress could reasonably enforce while protecting their rights. These sort of remarks not only fail to defend the public's rights (to fair use, time/space shifting, eventual public domain of works, etc) but they indicate (in my view) a lack of perspective gravely deficient in a public official, particularly one of your stature.
You are not my senator, so I recognize you have limited need to respond to my input. However, we do share a country and a federal government. And furthermore, I will say that I have thought of you as potential presidential material and this remark struck me as about as insensible as Ross Perot's comments about people out to get his daughters.
Personally, I'd like to see some sort of recantation of your remarks about tampering with people's computers and some advocacy of protecting the citizen's fair use rights, time/space shifting for personal use, and eventual public domain of works, which as a citizen and consumer I value highly.
Regards,
And apparently has received $18K in royalties for his music in 2002. A very creditable achievement for a full time Poitician. I wonder if the Senator has ever played any music at a family reunion, a birthday or perhaps a wedding. Perhaps one or more such occasions has been a public place like a Hall or a Restaurant. On such an occasion has the Senator played music, other than his own and has he fessed up to this and paid the required royalty to the musician or copyright holder of such music? I point this out not knowing the answer to the questions as to whether this possibility has ever happened. But merely to point out that to advocate the BIG HAMMER to smash small people it should work both ways. (People in glass house shouldn't throw stones...etc.) And to encourage the Senator to tone down his his rehtoric and accept the advise of the industry guru's. He might not like the RIAA deciding to pick on a name Politician instead of a kid in college.
Revolution can't be done without some purge. Eleminate all the fucking republican !!!
Disclaimer: I'm not a file trader. I think napster, as implemented, was a Bad Idea[tm]. OTOH, I believe we are seeing an outdated marketing model trying to fight the revolution (P2P and digital media) with a lot of other Bad Ideas[tm].
That said, let's talk about traffic violations for a minute. They happen all the time. Virtually everyone with a car participates from time to time in dangerous or illegal maneuvers in traffic. Much more often that with file trading, maneuvering one's vehicle in a dangerous or wreckless fashion can result in injury or death.
So, by simple extension of Hatch's logic, everyone who runs a red light or a stop sign, everyone who makes a U-turn to get a parking space or exceeds the posted speed limit, everyone who passes on the wrong side or fails to yield right-of-way when merging or accelerates through an yellow should have their cars destroyed by bazooka-wielding, traffic-monitoring vigilantes.
Uh-huh.
--
bachiatari na torisetsu o yome!
He can dream whatever he wants. Computer exploding into user's face. User gets electrocuted for downloading pirate music. Dangerous screensaver burns user's brain. Special frequency sound comes out of the computer's speakers and user is deafed forever. Horrible skin disease is passed to user from the parallel port and user dies a horrible death which lasts a month. User's house on fire by modem ingnition. etc.
Sen Hatch can dream whatever he wants. If you read the article, it's easy to see that he doesn't know shit about computers and just dreams sci-fi scenarios. "Sen Hatch really hates pirates very much" is the only interesting thing.
There are many reasons why somebody would want this bill to be legalized. For example, the senator who proposes it is a composer that earned 18,000 USD last year in royalties and it is clear that his proposal will benefit him. Why would any other sane person like this idea? I would love to see it happen because it will finally show what happens if young people (the goddamn future of our country) don't vote or choose dumb fucks to govern our country. Also, I would really love to see the implementation of this protocol: I like to see how things work so I can break them.
apparently he writes music. His site is www.orrinhatchmusic.com However when I tried to listen to a song, I got this page Maybe the poor guy is just under the impression that since no one is buying his stuff, that they must be pirating it. May it would help if we emailed him a told him that his stuff just sucks....
Now his computer is a prime target....
Wonder how this technology can be used for cyber wars, which could then be extended to for example terrorists activities...
Shouldn't respond to my own posts...but my intention was to post some metallica lyrics to his page (via the comments section). Problem is....just about every song they've written would sound like a veiled death threat...oh well....
http://www.hatchmusic.com/songs.html
-Everyone laughs at lemmings but no one ever wants to admit to ever being one.
I kind of wonder how Sen Hatch can justify "terrorist acts" (this would be difined as terrorism in a quite few countrys) for mere copyright violations.
... Did'nt think Sen would condone such things.
9-11 is still fresh in my memory
Sen. Hatch is just another Ultra-conservative Moron...Oops, I mean Mormon Dimwit. There is nothing new. Just ignore him and let him live in his own world.
So, despite file trading and p2p networks, Sen. Hatch is earning more money than before. And they say file sharing is taking money away from artists, eh? Must be all those sales of the soundtrack from Rat Race.
Tuus crepidae innexilis sunt.
Sony Pictures showed operating income of $492million on sales of $6billion.
Sony Music showed an operating loss of $73million on sales of $5billion.
Sony Videogames showed an operating income of $942million on sales of $8billion.
Sony Electronics showed an operating income of $345million on sales of $41billion.
Sony is doing everything they can to stop IP piracy to protect their movie and entertainment divisions, because that's the best way they have to make money. They have to work a *lot* harder in their electronics division (8 times the sales) to make 2/3 the operating income of the movie division. 5 times more sales in electronics than in videogames, and they made 1/3 the income.
They made nearly twice the income on video games as they did on movies, with movies having 3/4 as much in sales. They lost money in music with more than half as much in sales. As an added bonus, CDs and DVDs are nearly the same in price now, while video games cost 2-3 times as much, whether for a playstation or a PC, and go to 'bargain bin' prices at the same price point as CDs and DVDs.
In other words, they're selling more DVDs than they are video games and making less money because *gasp* no one in their right minds would pay $50 for a movie. At the same time, if you charge half as much for video games (across the board), and for some strange reason sales stay the same (which just wouldn't happen, sales should increase significantly at half price), video games would be at a $3 billion loss.
Chances are that the only reason Sony Pictures shows any kind of profit is because most of the cost of movie production is made up in the theaters, and the blockbusters produce enough to cover the failures (and they produce fewer movies than they do video games or CDs, for the most part, plus their video game profits include profits from games they put out absolutely no money to produce). DVD sales only make money because the cost to produce a DVD is next to nothing, and the movie's production costs are already covered (if they're not, the loss will be written off before the DVD is released, although it will still be counted when it comes to what everyone makes on that movie).
With CDs, they're producing too much crap if they lose 73 million on 5 billion in sales. There's absolutely no way Sony should be spending 5 billion in music production this year if they lost money on 5 billion in sales last year, but I'm guessing that their operating budget was either increased or only decreased by about 100 million (which seems like a lot of money, but if they had 5 billion in sales and lost 73 million, that means they supposedly spent that much more than they brought in). They need to make sure they're getting a significant return on their top artists (ie not spending more in promotions of these artists than they're making), and limit their spending on less known artists. By this, I don't mean they shouldn't sign new artists that no one's heard of, I simply mean that they shouldn't blow $1 million on an album that they should be able to put together in a smaller studio for half that. Sony Music could also cut some of the fat by reducing the number of labels they operate, and still keep the same artists. The only reason so many labels can handle the artists any better than one label could is simply because the people running the labels have no clue how to be flexible about the needs of different types of artists. You don't need a completely new label to address those needs, just a true A&R department that does what those departments were started for in the first place.
Sales don't matter. Income and profits matter
Sales matter a great deal, you get neither income nor profits without sales. Expenditures matter, as well. How much of Sony's efforts against piracy have been taken out of Sony Pictures' profits? How much was taken out of Sony Music? Did Sony Corp. decide to put the overhead all on Sony Music, despite the fact that anti-piracy efforts should really be split between Mu
-PainKilleR-[CE]
An amendment should be made to the Constitution that would allow a 1/2 or 2/3 vote by the nation as a whole to remove a senator or representative. I think Mr. Hatch would be a good candidate.
This EXACTLY what we need! The ability for the common people to be judge, jury and executioner. I mean, why bother with the legal system, when all you need to do is broadcast a signal down a Class A network to take out all those pesky people who download copyrighted works! It'll make it so much easier for me to enforce my copyrights when I can blow up an entire network without fear of reprisal, and without those annoying checks and balances of the court system. So what if some innocent people's computers die, it's all collateral damage. Besides, those people are future pirates.
I hope to God this technology never becomes available. Or wait, I do, so that Sen. Hatch's computer blows up because a hacker saw copyrighted works on his computer. Or at least thought he did. Or just had a suspicion. Or maybe blew up the computer as a precautionary measure, because it could be used for infringement.
I wish these people would realize that no matter what they do with computer technology, someone will always find a way to circumvent and exploit it. Maybe the *AA industry should make their products more appealing, and follow the laws of economics to sell more product. Because God knows this isn't working.
I thought a version without the remarks about the media, or the implied criticism of the judidial system ("decidedly un-level playing field") might be more successful....
Dear Senator Hatch,
I am writing in response to your comments today in support of allowing large corporations to destroy the personal computers, without any judicial oversight or review, or even the intervention of the executive branch of the local or federal government. I can only hope that these were off-the-cuff remarks prompted by frustration. Surely a respected legislator like you cannot really want to see the rule of law in the United States undermined by vigilante tactics like this.
As I said, I hope that these remarks were born of frustration, rather than reflecting your true position. I hope to see statement clarifying or correcting your stance in the near future.
Thank you for your time.
Yours respectfully,
1. You have to be able to distinguish licensed from unlicensed materials. If I buy a CD you'd better belive I can copy the tracks to my computer to listen to them. If I trade those tracks to someone else how do they know they are now unlicensed?
2. If it is LEGAL to hack into and destroy a computer with non-licensed materials think about the Hackers who will write a song, copy it to a target computer, then destroy said computer LEGALLY.
3. Congress has no place dictating technology policy to the world. Let the civil courts decide who has been hurt, how badly, and decide the remedy. Copyrights infringement is not a criminal act, or at least it shouldnt be. If it is costing someone money, they can sue for damages. More laws != More gooder...
Umm, what if I already own the CD that contains the song I'm downloading, because it's faster to download the MP3 over a fast connection than rip it from the CD, at least on my old box.
Maybe that's a stretch of the fair-use principle. Ripping the CDs I paid for, IMHO, definitely falls within fair-use. Downloading a copy of the same song off the net is borderline, since I'm not actually using the media I bought. But it amounts to the same thing. How do they know whether I have paid for the privilege of listening to that music?
They'd be destroying the equipment of their own paying customers.
include $sig;
1;
In other news, Senator Hatch has just proposed an anti-speeding law. The new law, if enacted, would allow law enforcement to use lethal force when enforcing speeding laws.
"Inspite of heavy fines and expensive insurance, people still continue to break the speed limits of our nation's highways" Hatch said.
"If death is the only way to teach these people to drive slower, than i'm all for it" he said. "Pop a few caps in their ass and they'll start listening!"
Local law enforcement could not be reached for comment.
-ted
I'm not from UT, so I wrote my Senators as follows:
n loading-Music.html ).
Dear Senator Foobar,
I wanted to bring your attention to Senator Hatch's remarks yesterday, in which he was reported to have said that he would like to allow corporations to destroy the computers of those suspected of trading copyrighted material ( http://www.nytimes.com/aponline/technology/AP-Dow
I'm sure that the Senator was just lashing out and expressing his frustration, but this kind of espousal of vigilante justice is dreadfully inappropriate coming from a U.S. Senator. It's even worse coming from the chairman of the Judiciary committee.
Please express your disapproval of this kind of irresponsible talk, and encourage your colleagues to do so as well.
Respectfully yours,
...technology remotely destroys YOU.
It's difficult to see why the good Senator is so concerned, in any case. No one is trading his songs.
"Consider the lillies of the goddamn field."
It would seem that a more powerful case would be made by asking if the CTEA, DMCA, NET, etc. fulfill the constitutionally required purpose: "to promote science and the useful arts."
Actually, he argued this too. It was also unsuccessful. Justice O'Connor (I believe) concluded in her opinion that there is some additional incentive for artists when the term is life + 70 rather than life + 50. True, the impact is not great, and I believe the opinion even calls Congress's actions "wrong-headed," but Justice O'Connor recognizes that this is a difference in degree rather than category -- a quibble with the balance struck by Congress -- and as such is not the Court's place to regulate.
Like it or not, there is strong constitutional basis for her remarks.
You really think the NRA is so politically powerful just becuase of our voting influence? You'd be suprised how complacent people can be when dealing with an organization where every single member is armed...:D
Facts do not cease to exist because they are ignored. - Aldous Huxley
The RIAA and MPAA advocate terrorism -- purely and simply.
They have become as crazy as The Mad Hatter; is there too much mercury in their drinking water?
As a Mormon I don't always agree with some of the most stupid things Hatch has to say, and this is by far the most stupidest thing out of his Pie-Hole. Now, trying to calm down, Orin Hatch is just doing what any good corrupted politician does: Doing the bidding of his Overlords's, the corporations. Now matter how "clean" these politicans may be, including Hatch, I'm sure there is something we can blowup of his that has broken the law.
And, BTW, who the heck (notice I didn't say hell) would want to download his music, "America Rocks", off of Kazza. Did anyone see that report on CNN this morning with some soundclips?
Now I see why is he all gung-ho for this:a tch.son gwriting.ap/index.html
http://www.cnn.com/2003/TECH/ptech/06/18/h
Geeze, now I must delete my entire collection of Hatch mp3s.
I know it's off topic, but I just wanted to point out that divers don't use pure oxygen. To do so would be extremely dangerous as pure oxygen is toxic. Even when administered medically, it mixes in with the surrounding air and so doesn't reach the lungs entirely pure.
Anyhow, divers use either compressed air, or Nitrox or Trimix. Compressed air is the most common, the others have their own risks and require training and understanding to use properly.
> actually he technically wouldn't be stealing the cable because it was paid for by the previous owner.
He'd technically be stealing it from the previous owner.
Please, people, pay attention here.
Virg
Ok, just out of curiosity, what happens if you are sharing files behind a firewall? Does the firewall get nuked instead? So my server gets nuked, while all my Mp3s stay on my desktop because the masq'ing makes ppl think I'm running from my server? What about IRCr's are they basically just going after kaaza and gnutella users? what about pirate ftp sites? snail mail trades, private trades? I mean the possibilities are endless for traders, if they nuke kaaza, then everyone moves to 5+ different other programs or protocols to trade.
Wouldn't it be possible to block them at your firewall? No incoming from 0.0.0.0 or add to hosts.deny?
If Hatch is willing to nuke your PC for downloading a song, what do you think he'll do to anyone who tries to distribute mod chips? Maybe cut off their right hand? For a first offense anyway...
lighten up man, it's just a joke. I apologies if i have offended you.
:-)
You misunderstand. I'm offended that you would include Utah in the midwest, when it is clearly a part of the "Big West" or "Rocky Mountain States" or something. The midwest being a coalition of (reasonably) progressive states.
We people of the midwest may not be the most liberal people in the world, but to compare us to ass-backwards Christian republics like Mississippi and Utah is just wrong.
Theres a reason I have nearly infinite Karma, theres a reason I get modded up on almost every post.
/. and should have a monument somewhere.
Yup, everyone loves a troll. I know I love you, HanzoSan. You make my work day go by faster. You, sir, are a credit to
The following has been submitted...
2 0228&mode=thread&tid=103&tid=99 it may be enlightening.
Mr. Hatch,
I believe you may have been too aggressive in your stance regarding copyrights and destroying a users system. I am sure you will get plenty of email regarding this so instead of "beating a dead horse" I suggest you browse this news forum to get an idea of how enraged some people are. Go check out http://yro.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=03/06/17/2
Life moves pretty fast; if you don't stop and look around once in a while, you could miss it. -FB
This would be a great way to slow down the maddening pace of technology. Pre-DRM computer hardware would no longer lose 50% of its value in 6 weeks. You would have an actual asset.
;)
Meanwhile the lamers would have to replace their 3+ GHz cpu every time they slipped up and transfered the wrong files.
This will keep the hardware companies in business nicely.
It'll be like the viral Flash RAM exploits on peoples BIOS, but much much better.
The only trick is, you have to keep your files on good CD-Rs and out of the light because you can only get drives that last 3-4 years now. Unless perhaps you want to fill every AT case in the house with old hard drives and span em into a 250 Gb volume. Or keep a stack of pre-DRM 120 gig drives and use em for backups only.
But eventually, as 30-120 gig drives start dying, people will have to either scrounge around for pre ban drives, like people with semi-auto guns have to scrounge around for pre ban magazines. Or wimp out and buy a DRM drive that will probably puke on you from shoddy quality as often as it does from some script kiddie pinging the self destruct.
Of course there will probably tons of residual last tier hardware like fujitsu drives, FIC, ECS, and Jetway motherboards around for those who are trying to cling to the past. As well as new black market items smuggled in from non DRM countries. Just think of the future. Running on a Happy Sun 4 Tb drive, A Chang Pow Motherboard, And a Three Unvirtuose mouse sound card.
The no name black market hardware makers of Asia would probably build a shrine to RIAA.
Here's a letter that I wrote to my representitives (which I fould at the EFF site). It is a little bit bombastic and inflamatory, but when you're writing off a random letter like this I think it's necessary to get their attention.
p /20030617/ap_on_hi_te/downloading_music) Senator Hatch endorses giving copyright holders the ability to remotely destroy the computers of people who download illegal music. Here is an exerpt from the article -
Representitives-
I wish to bring a disturbing article concerning remarks made by Senator Orrin Hatch regarding remotely destroying the computers of copyright violaters to your attention. I ask your attention not just as a constituent, but also as a computer engineer and student at Northwestern Law school. In case you are already aware of the article, let me say that the Senator's ideas are dangerous, unconstitutional, and demonstrate to me a complete disconnect with the Senators supposed job of serving the people, as opposed to serving corporations and himself - according to the article the senator is a copyright holder who made $18,000 last year.
In this article (http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/a
"If we can find some way to do this without destroying their machines, we'd be interested in hearing about that," Hatch said. "If that's the only way, then I'm all for destroying their machines. If you have a few hundred thousand of those, I think people would realize" the seriousness of their actions, he said.
"There's no excuse for anyone violating copyright laws," Hatch said.
Even without getting into a discussion of the way copyright law has been perverted so as to prevent material from ever entering the public domain (I challenge you to find material that has entered the public domain via any process except an artist explicitly contributing it to the public domain), the idea of giving copyright holders vigilante power, especially in a case where they cannot possibly know the value of what they are destroying, defies reasonable explanation. What if an email from a soldier to his mother was on the destroyed computer? What if it was an innocent relative's entire financial records? Taken to an extreme, it is possible that a person could hold the cure for cancer on their computer, all to be wiped out because a copyright holder thinks that person has violated the law.
Finally, if you have a moment further I ask you to consider this. I would just like to say that intellectual property is explicitly different from other properties. Whereas when you create something physical, like a piece of furniture, it is very clear that you should own that one piece of furniture completely because you paid for each piece of it, and all the labor was your own. Furthermore, your building that piece of furniture does not prohibit someone else from doing it. However, with every single piece of intellectual property, a person has truley stood on the shoulders of thousands of years of civilization, and owes a debt to everyone from the first human who harnassed the power of fire and basic tools to more modern day people such as Isaac Newton and Albert Einstein. The intellectual property owner owes a huge debt to society, because their idea isn't composed solely of their own contribution - it is one tiny part in an idea composed of the work of centuries of human effort. This is why an intellectual property holder owes a debt to society, and why they should be granted limited rights for a limited time over their idea or creation. In the constitution, intellectual property rights were created expressly with the idea of promting the useful arts and sciences, not to compensate those who came up with the ideas. The compensation was merely viewed as a necessary way to motivate people to innovate. However, if we follow the intent of the constitution this compensation should not our primary goal, rather it should be the promotion of the useful arts and sciences for the good of society at large.
Thank you for your time.
Adam Grove
how about some of these people who get totally hacked on these big corporate nets or .edu's and the "offender" sets up some huge porn/warez/mp3 dump..
i can see it..
clueless college kid doing his semster final paper and has no idea his computer is a file server.. BOOM!
iF yOu WAnT to C YOUr iP agaIn gAThEr tWO MilLIon dOLLArS IN Non - cONsEcuTivE TweNtY's AnD AWaiT FuRThER iNstrUctIoN
Damn it, I hate it when people screw up acronyms! It's the Silly Cretins Operation. Get it right next time, eh?
Virg
Just over 2 years ago the same senator was singing a totally different tune. Sen Hatch, as a Chairman of the Judiciary Committee introduced The Internet Integrity and Critical Infrastructure Protection Act, which was essentially the anti-hacking act all by itself... go figure.
Comment removed based on user account deletion
I am Mormon. While I was not born and raised in Utah, I did live there for several years. You distort and stereotype Mormon and Utah thinking, and paint a what is a nuanced picture with a pretty thick brush. I have known many good Mormons who are Democrats. Also many prominent Mormons are Democrats.
.
Harry Reid Senate Minority Whip is both a Democrat and an active Mormon.
James E. Faust who is number three in the LDS church hierarchy is a Democrat.
I could go on and on . .
A single first term member of the Utah Senate (hardly a leader) named Bill Wright uttered those infamous words. The leader of the church, Gordon B. Hinkley in a National Press Club press conference said (before Wright) "Good Mormons can be Democrats." I will take Hinkley's word over what LDS believe on what some politician says any day.
I dislike statements like yours that make blanket statements that distort the true picture. YES, most Mormons are Republicans, but the church itself takes a purposefully neutral political stance on all but a very few issues. I only remember them taking stands on "moral" issues like Abortion and gambling. The only non-moral position I remember was when the Church didn't want the MX missles based in Utah.
I resent being called a "sheeple". Mormons are always told to analyze, think and "find out for themselves" what they should do any given situation, when it comes to politics, and ESPECIALLY when it comes to religion.
Please do not continue false stereotypes like many of the statements listed above like polygamy. Speaking as a practicing Mormon, there is no such thing as a "Fundamentalist Mormon". If you "marry" a second wife, you are automatically excommunicated, no ifs, ands, or buts. Those people really are not members of my church.
I'm sorry, but I can't take you seriously when you talk about integrity in politics. Nor can I accept your starting premise about what he should have done when asked because (are you ready?) he should never have been asked about the affair in the first place.
Enough on this. This is a tired old subject. I don't want to go any furhter and have to deal with the agony of you telling me how El Chimpo is somehow better or has higher integrity.
His idea is wrong on soooo many levels, but this is the angle I took in my letter to the Senator:
Senator Hatch,
I am writing in response to your comments in support of allowing the computers of illegal file traders to be destroyed by the copyright owner. Allowing this to take place without allowing the benefit of due process, where guilt or innocence must be proven, would be a mistake.
A mistake such as this could cost companies, research and educational institutions, governmental offices, and personal computer users a bundle. There is a VERY good chance that errors would be made in the enforcement, especially by overzealous media companies. What legal recourse could be taken by those that are incorrectly identified as copyright infringers and have their tangible, expensive, and perhaps crucial systems destroyed?
Protecting intellectual property rights is important, but not to the degree that it circumvents the justice system. Laws against copyright infringement already exist. I suggest you push for their enforcement, rather than advocate such an extreme position as this.
Signature
Most people would die sooner than think; in fact, they do.
"you'll catch more flies with honey than vinegar, but if you really want flies, nothing beats roadkill and feces."
+&x
Annoyed about this? Angry? Too bad. Well-funded forces with stupid ideas can, will, and do change legal reality. I'm whining about it here on /. at the moment, but I 'm also a member of the EFF. Are you? They could use a louder voice. If you care, consider joining.
And I have collected (what I hope to be) the email addresses (those who have one, at any rate) of as many Senators and Representatives on Capitol Hill including our Chief Executive and his right hand man. I thought of posting them here, but to prevent them from having their addresses harvested by spammers (It may already happen, but I won't contribute to it), I'll simply state that if you would like them, please write me and I'll send them along. I, sadly, do not have time nor the ability to generate and html of the solid information. My address is dennisalanizATmacDOTcom.
l .html
Also, if you'd like to use my source instead, I got them all from http://www.webslingerz.com/jhoffman/congress-emai
Sure, and if your country would understand the threat, and take it's planes, ships, tanks and troops to put this tyrant down, the world would be a better place. But your country DOESN'T do that.
There's simply no opposition to US tyranny and imperialism. A few random terrorist crackpots don't count. What would count? Well, how do you think the "Gulf Wars" would have played out in the face of opposition (not mere dissent?) What if, instead of just blabbering on about opposition, the governments of France, Russia, and Germany had mustered a counter invasion force? Would the US have sunk a Russian fleet to get to the Gulf? Would Americans have supported a fight against a European army that had gone to defend Iraq?
But none of that happened, and the reason is that those countries did indeed support the US invasion. The whole of the opposition was a mere diplomatic action.
I agree with Sen. Hatch. I believe the technology should be taken one step further: A brain implant that causes a deadly aneurysm whenever a public official is about to do something corrupt. Instead of having to worry about trials and proof, simply activate the implant whenever there is the appearance that a special interest groupâ(TM)s interest outweighs public opinion.
Toilet seats that castrate you when you don't lift before you pee....
Bathing suits that dissolve if you don't wait 30 mins after eating before swimming...
and milk jugs that chop off your arm if you try to drink from them instead of pouring into a cup....
Referring to the book:
NOIR
By K.W. Jeter
http://www.scifi.com/sfw/issue85/books.html
In this book protoganist hunts down, and captures copyright infringers. (Using cool technology I might add.)
Their brain stem and spine are excised, and they are put into a carrying case. Then back at the office, technicians can convert the Copyright Infringers brain and spinal cord into one or more nice parting gifts for the Copyright owner. The brain is cut down, so only the personality of the infringer is left.
Seems like this is what Sen Hatch has in mind for our future.
The upside is that you will finally get all your bills paid. If you die before your bills are paid, you are reanimated... the dead walk the earth paying off their debts before they are allowed to finally die. Dead people are those with large cartoon "X"'s in there eyes.
Yep, I'm sure this is what Sen Hatch would have in mind...except for those in Utah I suspect.
A real depressing read...but very interesting
Ross Youngblood
There's a lot of nice scenery in Utah. Perhaps we should use those neutron bombs to just kill off the Mormons without damaging the landscape?
If you check out this page, you'll see what a lot of bloggers say about Sen. Hatch.
That Security Software and Anti-Virus companys will be able to block detect this "code" as dangerous just like they do with any other machines eating code. The Senator, can want to stop the file sharing and nuke those machines all he wants, but there is money to be made in stopping this stupid idea so there will allways be a fix/block.
IMHO
If they destroy your hard drive and wipe your computer, what proof do they have that what they did was justified under Hatch's Law?
...I'll give Sen. Hatch's constituents the ability to attack machines containing "illegal" copyrighted material if, say, the entire Linux kernel dev team (and associated contributors) can DoS SCO's servers for continuing to distribute proprietary software that contains GPLed code in violation of the GPL.
What's that? What's fair for big companies is not fair for the little guy? Do tell...
Jay (=
He has the right idea, but a better implementation would be to require, by law, all p2p software have a trigger.
This trigger would allow the copyright owner of an mp3 or software to trigger a process shutdown on the p2p software sharing their property.
This could be scripted and automated and would only target people sharing copyrighted files. The software, before shutting down would check to see if that person was sharing the file that the copyright holder said they were, if they weren't, it would ignore the request.
It would not do damage to their computer and they would have to agree to the trigger to install the software.
No damage done, problem solved, user knows what is happening when kazaa dies. If user runs software without this trigger, they would be subject to DMCA like legislation. Likewise if they crack the file, or share cracked files the same rules apply.... Jail time.
Since this system would only attack copyright breakers, us honest citizens have nothing to worry, or complain about.
l8,
AC
#include ford_car.h
if ((speed>70) and (outside_air_temp>82)){
Freeze_plug_melted=true;
Head_gasket_melted=true;
owner_bank_account="empty";
}
"Live Free or Die." Don't like it? Then keep out of the USA
> Of course nobody are talking about literaly blowing up your computer. As the article clearly states, it would be a temporary lock out, that could easily be lifted.
This is outright incorrect. Senator Hatch indeed was interested in damaging computers, not locking out computers. He said exactly that himself. The word "damage" does not connote temporary results. Also, what happens during the lockout? Who recompenses me for lost productivity if I'm not really guilty? What happens if I'm not breaking any copyright laws? Do I have to prove I'm not infringing to get the lock lifted? Doesn't that run directly counter to the tenet of "innocent until proven guilty"? If they have sufficient evidence to prove I'm in violation, then I can be charged under existing laws. This whole concept is a gross violation of due process.
> This is not so much different from for example revoking your drivers license if you are caught speeding. I know most Slashdoters are more attached to their computers than to their cars, but you still take it for granted that the government can revoke this right if you break their rules.
You're right, it's not. Last I checked, nobody ever got their license revoked before conviction in a court of law. That's called due process; see above for how the same process must apply to accusations of piracy. Remember that before the state can revoke my right to drive, they must prove I've broken a law. Senator Hatch suggests that companies be given the right to exact punishment without the messy problem of actually proving that I've done something wrong, and also suggests that accountability be removed or reduced in the event they target me incorrectly.
> Of course, I see this is not an ideal solution.
I don't see it as a solution at all. I see it as dereliction of Senator Hatch's oath to protect the Constitution. Subcontracting law enforcement and the court system to private corporations doesn't solve the problem, and creates an enormous array of new problems to pile on top of it.
> Laws like this are for dealing with acute problems, not long term solutions. In the long term, the market should sort itself out.
That's a great idea, but in the face of this law, what market forces could come to bear on content providers to force paradigm shift?
You have a very bad understanding of what's at stake here. Orrin Hatch has made a most offensive and unpatriotic play and I hope he gets run out of office over it. A man with this little regard for the Bill of Rights does not deserve the job of legislator.
This sets an excellent precedent. Spammers computers should be next in line to be destroyed.
This is akin to punishment without the benefit of trial.
I'm a Canadian, but isn't that something the American government states it will ensure in the constitution? A fair and speedy trial.
If a member of a political party is quite literally advocating an action that breeches your constitutional rights, can't you request he step down or have his party kick his ass out of congress?
Just a thought. Cheers from the wet coast of Canada.
From Cato's Clyde Wayne Crews.
Stuart Eichert
Anyway, the most shocking thing about the article is that he earned any money at all from selling that crap :)
Let's see how Senator Hatch enjoys his computer being bombarded. E-mail him at Senator_hatch@hatch.senate.gov. If this doesn't work, you'll have to go through his official site http://www.senate.gov/~hatch/index.cfm?Fuseaction= Offices.Contact. I wrote a small piece, then tagged on random quotes about freedom until I used up the character limit. I also sent from multiple addresses. Have fun.
This will never happen and if it did, no one will buy it. "Hey, buy this computer, but if it makes a mistake and thinks you played copywrited material when you didn't, pfffft! it will all go up in smoke!" You think that MS and Intel and the Broadband companies (much more powerful than the piddly little RIAA) are EVER going to let that happen? NFW.
Literally to destroy means to make unrepairable... If a house is destroyed in a hurricane, you can't fix it, you have to build a new one... if you could you're exagerating.. ... Anyway, if the the computer is actually, literally destroyed... then theRIAA ,or hackers, for that matter, can destroy the machine and simply claim that it had their copyrightable materials on it... since the proof of the crime would be destroyed as the computer is destroyed... really anyone could hack anyone and then make that claim... And since you're hack does a security wipe of the harddrive (doesn't it) they'd never be able to prove it /wasn't/ there.. after a security wipe, they'd only, maybe, be able to prove if it was there, SO its a total hacker loophole.
NOT just being pendantic here, consider that if you would use software to recover whats on the drive, then its not really destroyed, since its still fixable... ditto with restoring from backups... So if it was technically possible... I don't know maybe a hack that exploited
a hardware bug, and convinced the fans to powerdown, and then maybe something that
could force a physical head crash....
So now anyone can Hack with Impunity thanks to Senator Hatch.
Hatch has posted a clarification to his comments...
o n= PressReleases.Detail&PressRelease_id=205147
http://www.senate.gov/~hatch/index.cfm?FuseActi
based on the research done by this site.
"We make our world significant by the courage of our questions and by the depth of our answers." Carl Sagan
Not that I don't find the endless name-calling mildly diverting, but I do think it is extremely important to comment on this blanket generalization. As a citizen of the United States of America, I will freely admit that there are far too many of my fellow citizens that are: "Arrogant Ignorant and Disinformed". However, I would like SubtleNuance to realize that not all U.S. citizens fit in that group. I personally am doing much to attempt to both inform the "Populace" that is mentioned in the parent, and to try to make them see why they should care. As one of the reasonably well informed citizens of the U.S., I am increasingly concerned over the ill-defined "War on Terrorism". It may well be that the United States will be responsible for starting WWIII, but my hope is that those of us who are working to teach the populace and fight the apathy will be willing to help put our government back on track long before WWIII becomes a reality. As to SubtleNuance's comments, I truly hope that he does not really believe that ALL U.S. citizens are "Arrogant Ignorant and Disinformed".
...Er, sorry, I'm usually not like that. Please feel free to reply, either on slashdot, or to my personal email address.
Please, fellow U.S. citizens, try to educate the citizens of our country and try to combat the apathy that has closed their eyes and ears.
*gets down off soapbox*
Orrin Hatch's site:
http://www.hatchmusic.com/songs.html
trying to explain away what Hatch said instead of simply identifying him as just another senile old Senator who should have been turned out to pasture years ago...
Fucking moron...
Richard Steven Hack - This sig is TOO GODDAMN SHORT TO DO ANYTHING USEFUL WITH! MORONS!
nt
Easy. Just download 3 songs. Poof!
Yup, Senator Hatch, as soon as you include a self-destruct mechanism in a computer that's triggered by user behavior, all my virus needs to do is to DO that behavior.
Could be a strategy to get the computer desktop business rolling again.
full story here:. html
http://amish.blogmosis.com/archives/012511
the response i got back from milonic was:
Hi,
Every copy of the menu requires a license, we are looking into this.
There are other issues with this site in particular, they need to have a link back to us and they have moved the copyright notices.
Regards
Andy Woolley.
Milonic Solutions Ltd
orrin is a chump and a hypocrite plain and simple.
You're leaving out the part that this was only recently changed to say this after Coca Cola inc paid the church a great deal of money to change this. The Mormon bible is revised all of the time and good Mormons are supposed to turn in or destroy all older copies. So nice try, but taking caffeine was a sin until very recently.
That's really funny! I have to wonder if you are just trolling when you quote those myths as fact, or do you really believe them? You probably feel fairly smug about forwarding that cookie recipe from Neiman Marcus and are expecting that $300 from Bill Gates to come in the mail any day now as a thank you for participating in his email tracking program.
Bad citizens of a free society though? Absolutely. I'd be amazed if anyone even tried to counter that rationally.
I think you will be more likely to get rational comments when you start posting some.
Dear Senator Hatch,
Your recent statements regarding the destruction of PC's belonging to anyone *believed* to have illegally downloaded copyrighted material could not have been more ludicrous. You completely lack the knowledge of technology that is necessary to intelligently discuss such ideas, and as such should respectfully remain silent during such discussions. Perhaps in the future you should research an issue before commenting on it. In fact, I am so appalled at your ignorance that I will take it upon myself to educate you.
Consider the repercussions of such legislation. The act of destroying citizens' computers violates more laws than I can count, including several amendments to the constitution. Do you intend to change every single law in this country that would make the idea you've proposed illegal? This seems impossible. You should also consider that if such a system was implemented, you would leave every computer in this great nation of ours open to attack from terrorist organizations. What's to stop members of al-Qaeda (for example) from tapping into the system and destroying every PC from coast to coast, including those that form the government's infrastructure? Absolutely nothing, that's what. If this law came to pass, I can only hope President Bush would send you to GuantÃnamo Bay with the rest of the terrorists.
I leave you with two final thoughts. First, the people you are attacking are the people this country depends on most. To quote 'Fight Club', "The people you're after are everyone you depend on. We do your laundry, cook your food and serve you dinner. We guard you while you sleep. We drive your ambulances. Don't fuck with us." It would be smart to think of the people you represent instead of the corporations that fund your campaign. Last but not least, you should read the discussion on slashdot that was sparked by your comments, if it doesn't open your eyes, then nothing will.
Congratulations on successfully sabotaging any political ambitions you hold for the few years remaining before your inevitable death, a day all of us anxiously await.
I think a good way to distribute this type of technology has already been proposed and discussed on Slashdot. Corporate networks would still be protected at the firewall level, although all "home" firewalls would have to allow these packets in order to enforce the destruction of the pirate machine. Could probably make it illegal for home PC users (aka "pirates") to filter the destructive packets. I think it can work!
Another way to contact Orrin Hatch.
senator_hatch@hatch.senate.gov
I wish someone would rid us of his idiocy, but somehow he keeps ending up back in office.
Fascism should more properly be called corporatism because it is the merger of state and corporate power. -- Mussolini
As far as I'm concerned, politicians shouldn't need a dime for their campaigns, nor should they be allowed to spend anything. Media coverage is free. Then, of course, we have a nation controlled by the media instead of money.
You know, it makes me wonder. Now that you've said that, I never really thought: Why didn't France, if they were so opposed to the war, patrol Iraq with their Mirage's and protect it with their Navy? Why didn't Germany kick the U.S. out of Rammstein AFB?
;-) </sarcasm>
I don't think it's a simple answer but enough questions come to mind:
* What would the citizens who depend on U.S. goods and services say and do to their lawmakers??
* What would the citizens who depend on access to U.S. markets say or do to their lawmakers??
* What would the U.S. do? I seriously doubt it would have come to open war with France or Germany if they did these actions, but it might have triggered the government to oust BMW or Dassault or other companies out of the U.S. in retaliation, which you could have expected reciprocation from the EU as well.
* Balkanized the UK with the U.S., or against? Who is the "motherland" more loyal to?
In the end, France and Germany decided that the overwhelming fact of the matter "Saddam was breaking INTERNATIONAL LAW SET DOWN IN 1991" overrode the political need to stop the U.S. at all costs.
<sarcasm>I mean, the U.S. may suck, and France may have despised our War with Iraq, but do they really want to lose their overseas market for their overpriced wines and cheeses?
...I would NEVER steal your music! :P
http://www.hatchmusic.com/songs.html
assert(birth_date<time-86400)
Sen. Orrin Hatch (R-Utah)suggested Tuesday that people who download copyright materials from the Internet should have their computers automatically destroyed. But Hatch himself is using unlicensed software on his official website, which presumably would qualify his computer to be smoked by the system he proposes. The senator's site makes extensive use of a JavaScript menu system developed by Milonic Solutions, a software company based in the United Kingdom. The copyright-protected code has not been licensed for use on Hatch's website. "It's an unlicensed copy," said Andy Woolley, who runs Milonic. "It's very unfortunate for him because of those comments he made."
Help fight continental drift.
Here is the code for the license area on his site:
All of this is exactly as reported by Wired News today. I downloaded the code from Google's cache of his page before it got fixed.
This has probably been discussed in many other posts as well, but I'm not so concerned about the piracy aspect so far as the fact that they'd have the gall to probe other people's computers lowering MY fucking PAID-FOR bandwidth, because the RIAA has a senator in their pocket! The whole blowing up of a pc is bad too but is much more improbable than simply being lagged intermittently by some software forcing access into my PC.
The fact that he uses illegitimate software of his own on his website is even more absurd...
I just want to know how he is going to "destroy"
my computer if I download music files? They would have to come up with a destruction method for every distribution of Linux and Unix currently on the market. Good Luck. What is this world coming to....
Copyright law allows the government to seize and destroy or sell property used in an infringement.
The section of law is 17 USC 503
They can seize as soon as an action is pending, but they can only destroy or sell ("other reasonable disposition") after a conviction.
Of course, they can accidently smash your computer to bits during the investigation. ("Oops, we dropped it from 50 feet - how'd that happen"). And not be liable (even if you have the right to sue - do you have the money - do you think you'll win - and if you sue they could always decide they ARE going to press felony charges against you after all - kiss your legal rights goodbye - kiss your right to work legally in many IT jobs goodbye - kiss many, many, jobs better than burger flipper goodbye).
Just because it CAN be done, doesn't mean it should!
>>Does anyone actually have a Java program designed >>to control of air traffic, or for the operation of >>a nuclear facility? I do. But I'm reluctant to release it to a production machine right now, In case someone blows off my box thinking I am in violation of law by breathing oxygen while I code. Sorry
However, every Senator's office keeps track of things like phone calls and letters. If you write or call YOUR Senators, and politely express that you want to go on the record that you don't want any support given to Hatch on anything that involves these computer destroying ideas, then you have gotten to the ears of the people that Hatch will need to convince to help him.
If enough messages are received, staffers will remember it when they may have to vote on something. Take away his support base.
temporarily from the Hill -- LE
I remember cases where organizations would do massive book buys to support a politician or does he really do that much business with individuals?
- White Knight of the Order of Mihoshi Enthusiasts
I came across this article which dicusses how companies buy influence with politicians by hiring their (Orrin's, er I mean the politician's) relatives.