Remember that most of the people that hang here is not a good representation of the "common people". Common people don't know much about computers, internet or security. And they don't care. They use what's fun and easy, even if it's bug-ridden, insecure, unhealthy and radioactive. They are not computer geeks, they're just people.
And people, not geeks like you and me, is what drives the market. If Chrome OS is easier and funnier to use than Windows, many people will use it. Even if has a security hole so big that you coud fit a truck into it, even if it makes their pictures being naked and drunk available to anyone in the Internet. Because they, and most of their friends, won't care. They just want to play with the damn thing.
Myself, I'd solve that issue with a somewhat hefty (~10Mb/s) Internet connection, a local cache and a place in "the Cloud" to store my files. I know of the shortcomings of storing your things in some server online (security, privacy...), but as many of the other things I use are already there, it's only natural that this is there too.
Many Debian users like to tweak their systems just for fun, not because it's useful. They like the feeling of control when they know everything that's installed. They like the feeling of understanding how everything fits in their systems. And that's good. It's fun and you learn a lot.
But these things about "ubuntu hiding things" just mean that some of them are becoming obsolete. They miss the times when Linux was simple: kernel, userland, X server, applications. All clearly separated, all easy to grasp. With all these "new" things like udev, hal, upstart ("how do they dare to remove/etc/inittab?!?!?")... they feel they're losing control. They no longer know everything. So the first reaction is refusal: Ubuntu must be bad.
Ubuntu is great. I've used Debian for more than ten years, and I'm still using that for work. I love it: it works and it's rock solid (usually). It's well thought and sysadmin-friendly. I was a (bad) debian developer. But Ubuntu is good too. It works. And it's still Debian. All Debian goodies are there.
And if many people are switching to Ubuntu, if the level of Ubuntu users is not so "elite" like Debian users, that's a good sign. It's new blood.
We complain for years and years saying that Linux can be used by "normal users" (when, let's face it, we were pretty far from it), and now that it's becoming true, we are fearful of losing our aura of eliteness. We attack the ones that are achieving it because they're not "pure enough". What a band of jerks we are. How much insecurity lies in the bottom of the Linux community?
We can't live in our ivory tower of perfect freedom and simplicity forever. Get out a bit and talk to real people. Ubuntu is Debian for real people.
Mod this up. I've met a few people that seem to think that they're never responsible of any problem, it's always other people's fault. One of the guys I'm thinking of has been hopping from job to job for years (and he's only about 27 or so), leaving a nasty trace behind him. I don't think any of the places where he's been will hire him again.
But still he sees himself as a victim. It's always that boss that hates him, that co-worker that has no idea, that job that he doesn't like...
If kids had space to run and play, they wouldn't be violent. But complaining about video games is easier than asking for more and safer parks, or for cities to become more "human friendly".
<tinfoil mode>
Of course they want to take the actual computer away from you, they want to have control over you. If they could, your "computer" would be a mindless terminal to a Big Brother Approved mainframe that spied on everything you did.
</tinfoil mode>
You're not using GMail or any of Google other services, are you?
I agree. Just a little addition: besides, VMware licenses are even more important when you want to scale. Say you want to use two quad boxes for load balancing, running VMware in each: that's about 8 x 5000 = $40000 in licenses (or $35000 if the first CPU is for free; I'm using your prices, but I knew about a similar project where VMware was decided against due to licensing costs too). You can buy more hardware with that money and train all your staff to understand and use Xen.
Yeah but Xen is still a royal PITA to get running. KVM wasn't bad, and VMWare was pretty easy. I haven't even seen OpenVZ.
Yes, Xen is harder to install. But to compare it with KVM... did you try to use them? KVM (at least, last time I tried -- which was only a couple weeks ago) is still in development, and the performance is so low compared to Xen that it's not even funny.
On the other hand, VMware is very nice, specially the free Server edition, and it's really easy to use. But even so, performance is better in Xen. Check this. Paravirtualization needs modified guests, but the outcome is so good that VMware is trying paravirtualization too.
VMWare is so far ahead it will take some time for Xen to be considered out of the hobbyist market and in the commercial one
What do you think is needed for Xen to be considered apt for commercial use? Remember that Xen can use unmodified guests if the hardware supports VTX/SVM instructions, which means that it can run Windows. Pretty front-ends? Xensource (which is slashdotted now, I guess, because it times out from here) offers one, and you also have Enomalism.
Besides, by what Wikipedia says about OpenVZ, it seems to be more a solution like jails, because it uses the same kernel for both the host and the guest systems. The phrase "glorified chroot" comes to mind, though I'm aware that it's more than that (just adding it for the sake of trolling, I guess:-)). Xen, VMware and QEMU/KVM are, on the other hand, real virtualization solutions, where all the virtual system runs completely isolated.
I wouldn't recommend Xen for home use (VMware Server is a better and easier option, IMHO), but saying that it's not ready and comparing it to QEMU/KVM is almost a joke.
And also, "The third wave", by the same author. From 1974, if memory serves (which rarely does, so I wouldn't be surprised if it wasn't the right date:-)).
And Aldus Huxley in "Brave New World". I remember reading it only a couple years ago, and being amazed at how a guy in 1918 (IIRC) could paint so many things of our present with such accuracy.
We even operate that way internal to our group. I don't just go and change shit in DNS. Not because I don't know how to, not because I don't have the root password, but because it's not my area. Better I should ask the guy who is supposed to do it. That way, there's less chance somerthing that gets broken.
This is true also where I work, but we're slowly trying to change it because we need redundancy. Usually, the guy who knows about stuff X goes on holiday, or is sick, or whatever, and the rest of us are left with little if any knowledge of what he does. So we're trying to get always two (or more) people to know about any kind of stuff, to allow for safe and worriless (does this word exist?) vacations.
Just in case you didn't know, vim has a "compatible mode" (":set compatible" in command mode) that makes it behave exactly and rigidly like the original vi. Good for training:-)
IRIX had some sort of "quality of service applied to disk accesses", as you wrote, thanks to XFS. The filesystem allows defining zones that have a "minimal throughput" configured. I can't say more about it because I know only by referrals of another people O:-)
XFS is available for Linux since 2.6.0 and 2.4.24, IIRC, and I think this feature is also available in the latest kernels. Though it's still experimental, IIRC.
But then, the problem with the music industry is that people only want to pirate well known artists.
I think this also happens (to a lesser degree, of course) with Porn. There are a few pornstars that are more famous than the rest, and so I guess people that download porn (ok, me among them;-)) could also download more flicks or pictures from those stars than from the rest.
Say, Jenna Jameson or Asia Carrera, for example. They're quite famous, and there surely are a lot of p2p searches that go for these specific names (i.e., instead of "ass fuck" or "blowjob"). Or that awesome girl that Eric Raymond commented on his "Armed and Dangerous" weblog. Let me google for it... aha, here.
Man, how I long for a girlfriend after writing about these things for a while:-)
Consider the following. I know from first hand experience that many people visiting NYC carry those digital video recorders wherever they go, because they want to record the sights and sounds of the city. I also imagine that many people touring the city in such a manner would like to see a movie while out on the town without having to return to their hotel or apartment. This type of law would turn a common tourist into a common criminal.
Dude, seriously, say no to drugs.
Yes, maybe in places like NYC there will be a lot of people that carry their "tourist kit" (camcorder et al) wherever they go. But this is not the norm (and besides, AFAIK, NYC is not in California; but I'm not very good on US geography). Most of the people that carries camcorders to movies is going to pirate them. Denying it doesn't make it less real.
I, for one, welcome our new camcorder-banning lords.
Slashdot Mirror
The Linux Kernel is a fine example of public mammoth project with strict style guidelines, and ones that are quite elegant IMHO.
The best thing about this is that they are, allegedly, using Eucalyptus: http://nebula.nasa.gov/blog/2009/nov/how-eucalyptus-enables-ec2-compatibility-with-nebu/
Remember that most of the people that hang here is not a good representation of the "common people". Common people don't know much about computers, internet or security. And they don't care. They use what's fun and easy, even if it's bug-ridden, insecure, unhealthy and radioactive. They are not computer geeks, they're just people.
And people, not geeks like you and me, is what drives the market. If Chrome OS is easier and funnier to use than Windows, many people will use it. Even if has a security hole so big that you coud fit a truck into it, even if it makes their pictures being naked and drunk available to anyone in the Internet. Because they, and most of their friends, won't care. They just want to play with the damn thing.
Myself, I'd solve that issue with a somewhat hefty (~10Mb/s) Internet connection, a local cache and a place in "the Cloud" to store my files. I know of the shortcomings of storing your things in some server online (security, privacy ...), but as many of the other things I use are already there, it's only natural that this is there too.
Many Debian users like to tweak their systems just for fun, not because it's useful. They like the feeling of control when they know everything that's installed. They like the feeling of understanding how everything fits in their systems. And that's good. It's fun and you learn a lot.
But these things about "ubuntu hiding things" just mean that some of them are becoming obsolete. They miss the times when Linux was simple: kernel, userland, X server, applications. All clearly separated, all easy to grasp. With all these "new" things like udev, hal, upstart ("how do they dare to remove /etc/inittab?!?!?") ... they feel they're losing control. They no longer know everything. So the first reaction is refusal: Ubuntu must be bad.
Ubuntu is great. I've used Debian for more than ten years, and I'm still using that for work. I love it: it works and it's rock solid (usually). It's well thought and sysadmin-friendly. I was a (bad) debian developer. But Ubuntu is good too. It works. And it's still Debian. All Debian goodies are there.
And if many people are switching to Ubuntu, if the level of Ubuntu users is not so "elite" like Debian users, that's a good sign. It's new blood.
We complain for years and years saying that Linux can be used by "normal users" (when, let's face it, we were pretty far from it), and now that it's becoming true, we are fearful of losing our aura of eliteness. We attack the ones that are achieving it because they're not "pure enough". What a band of jerks we are. How much insecurity lies in the bottom of the Linux community?
We can't live in our ivory tower of perfect freedom and simplicity forever. Get out a bit and talk to real people. Ubuntu is Debian for real people.
Mod this up. I've met a few people that seem to think that they're never responsible of any problem, it's always other people's fault. One of the guys I'm thinking of has been hopping from job to job for years (and he's only about 27 or so), leaving a nasty trace behind him. I don't think any of the places where he's been will hire him again. But still he sees himself as a victim. It's always that boss that hates him, that co-worker that has no idea, that job that he doesn't like ...
If kids had space to run and play, they wouldn't be violent. But complaining about video games is easier than asking for more and safer parks, or for cities to become more "human friendly".
<tinfoil mode> Of course they want to take the actual computer away from you, they want to have control over you. If they could, your "computer" would be a mindless terminal to a Big Brother Approved mainframe that spied on everything you did. </tinfoil mode>
You're not using GMail or any of Google other services, are you?
Personally i'm Xen biased due to cost.
I agree. Just a little addition: besides, VMware licenses are even more important when you want to scale. Say you want to use two quad boxes for load balancing, running VMware in each: that's about 8 x 5000 = $40000 in licenses (or $35000 if the first CPU is for free; I'm using your prices, but I knew about a similar project where VMware was decided against due to licensing costs too). You can buy more hardware with that money and train all your staff to understand and use Xen.
Yeah but Xen is still a royal PITA to get running. KVM wasn't bad, and VMWare was pretty easy. I haven't even seen OpenVZ.
Yes, Xen is harder to install. But to compare it with KVM ... did you try to use them? KVM (at least, last time I tried -- which was only a couple weeks ago) is still in development, and the performance is so low compared to Xen that it's not even funny.
On the other hand, VMware is very nice, specially the free Server edition, and it's really easy to use. But even so, performance is better in Xen. Check this. Paravirtualization needs modified guests, but the outcome is so good that VMware is trying paravirtualization too.
VMWare is so far ahead it will take some time for Xen to be considered out of the hobbyist market and in the commercial one
What do you think is needed for Xen to be considered apt for commercial use? Remember that Xen can use unmodified guests if the hardware supports VTX/SVM instructions, which means that it can run Windows. Pretty front-ends? Xensource (which is slashdotted now, I guess, because it times out from here) offers one, and you also have Enomalism.
Besides, by what Wikipedia says about OpenVZ, it seems to be more a solution like jails, because it uses the same kernel for both the host and the guest systems. The phrase "glorified chroot" comes to mind, though I'm aware that it's more than that (just adding it for the sake of trolling, I guess :-)). Xen, VMware and QEMU/KVM are, on the other hand, real virtualization solutions, where all the virtual system runs completely isolated.
I wouldn't recommend Xen for home use (VMware Server is a better and easier option, IMHO), but saying that it's not ready and comparing it to QEMU/KVM is almost a joke.Why, Gentoo users *always* see a noticeable increase of speed after compiling their own system.
And also, "The third wave", by the same author. From 1974, if memory serves (which rarely does, so I wouldn't be surprised if it wasn't the right date :-)).
And Aldus Huxley in "Brave New World". I remember reading it only a couple years ago, and being amazed at how a guy in 1918 (IIRC) could paint so many things of our present with such accuracy.
He could wrap it in the User Must Wear Chicken Suit License if he so desires.
Man, I'm SO going to use that license if I publish any program in the future. Thanks for opening my eyes.
I can top it. I used to live in a fraternity house. We had germs there that had learned to use tools.
Damn. So that's where Paulie went!
If Joe found out he can download software for free, he's going to wonder why he pays for that electronic typewriter program
You forget that the common average Joe doesn't pay for software. He gets it from a friend who makes him a copy for free.
This is true also where I work, but we're slowly trying to change it because we need redundancy. Usually, the guy who knows about stuff X goes on holiday, or is sick, or whatever, and the rest of us are left with little if any knowledge of what he does. So we're trying to get always two (or more) people to know about any kind of stuff, to allow for safe and worriless (does this word exist?) vacations.
Would this be in the main page if it happened to some random slashdotter, instead of the founder? Doesn't CmdrTaco have a weblog for rants like this?
... what I've done is this. Sorry for the shameless plug :-)
Just in case you didn't know, vim has a "compatible mode" (":set compatible" in command mode) that makes it behave exactly and rigidly like the original vi. Good for training :-)
Two words: IRIX, XFS.
IRIX had some sort of "quality of service applied to disk accesses", as you wrote, thanks to XFS. The filesystem allows defining zones that have a "minimal throughput" configured. I can't say more about it because I know only by referrals of another people O:-)
XFS is available for Linux since 2.6.0 and 2.4.24, IIRC, and I think this feature is also available in the latest kernels. Though it's still experimental, IIRC.
But then, the problem with the music industry is that people only want to pirate well known artists.
I think this also happens (to a lesser degree, of course) with Porn. There are a few pornstars that are more famous than the rest, and so I guess people that download porn (ok, me among them ;-)) could also download more flicks or pictures from those stars than from the rest.
Say, Jenna Jameson or Asia Carrera, for example. They're quite famous, and there surely are a lot of p2p searches that go for these specific names (i.e., instead of "ass fuck" or "blowjob"). Or that awesome girl that Eric Raymond commented on his "Armed and Dangerous" weblog. Let me google for it ... aha, here.
Man, how I long for a girlfriend after writing about these things for a while :-)
You must be new here.
Dude, seriously, say no to drugs.
Yes, maybe in places like NYC there will be a lot of people that carry their "tourist kit" (camcorder et al) wherever they go. But this is not the norm (and besides, AFAIK, NYC is not in California; but I'm not very good on US geography). Most of the people that carries camcorders to movies is going to pirate them. Denying it doesn't make it less real.
I, for one, welcome our new camcorder-banning lords.
Hate to use the topic, but "Me too" :-) This happened to me yesterday, but with XP.