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Debian World Domination Plan
An anonymous reader writes "Guillem Jover announced his plans to take over the non-Debian world and released a tool which converts in
runtime any distribution to Debian. It does not convert in the sense
of mapping all previous installed packages to the Debian counterparts,
but installs a base system or tarball and cleans traces from the
previous distribution."
Well, I for one *welcome* our new Debian overlords!
Red Hat is irrelevant... Mandrake is irrelevant... RESISTANCE IS FUTILE!
... will upgrade Windows XP to Debian 4.0.
Instead of dominating other distributions they should focus on something useful like dominating the desktop. And it would help if the Debian project drops their snotty attitude versus KDE.
Owner of a Mensa membership card.
Debian will rule the world. MuHaHaHa..........
if this were run on an existing Debian system. Hmmm...
Someone's bound to install it! Resistance is futile.....
Does Guillem Jover translate to Bill Gates in some other language???
Who are you? The new #2 Who is #1? You are #617565. I am not a number, I am a free man! Muhahaha.
That works without a modchip...
Finally something that would pave the way and help all those that are "stuck" with RedHat servers.
As Redhat have EOL'd support for their boxed sets at the end of December, they could have had a lot of converts. Now most of those people will have gone for RHAS or Fedora.
This is a way to bring a useful installer Debian.
From the code:
/etc/debian_version ]
[...]
if [ -e
then
if [ "$DISTRO" = unknown ]; then
error 1 "You already have a Debian system"
[...]
The next stage will be to engineer anti-microsoft nano machines (one could call them a vaccine) that will systematically convert all MS computers into Debian computers.
If the user gets upset over the change, he too will be converted into a Finnish Linux geek.
Still #1 -- Lonely Gay Geek
Signed,
Woody
If you can read this sig - the bitch fell off.
Debian's a fine distribution, but I doubt many people would take kindly to having this tool applied to a system that has been configured and running for any amount of time. If it's just going to install a base system, I'll just install a NEW system with Debian.
Show me a tool that converts portage or rpm data and creates a working Debian equivalent and I'll be impressed.
This doesnt accomplish anything more than wiping and starting over...
"Oh my God. This is terrible. This is the end of my Presidency. I'm fucked."; ~ Donald J. Trump
Then as a migration tool it's pretty limited.
/home and /data and /specified intact).
It would be fantasic to be able to hit a button, have something read the RPM database and automagically reinstall a APT based system (leaving
It's not fantasic to replace the kernel and leave you with a right royal mess of apps that can't be maintained, or worse still nuke everything so it doesn't work right.
This is a first step, which is cool, but it looks like it needs extending a bit to gain some practical application. Rather like the depenguinator (script to remove linux and install BSD) its a cool toy with little real application as of yet.
Beep beep.
Microsoft has had this for years: it's called fdisk...
SHOOT US UP THE DEBIAN!!
Sorry, I had to say it....
*Sound od Karma burning*
Microsoft has had this for years. If you boot the XP CD a very similar tool will be run.
Debian world + non-Debian world = whole world? ...did I miss something?
-virgo cluster
For better or worse however SuSE is dumbing down the distribution to provide it with more mainstream appeal. Which is something I really don't care for. (Yes I know that you can manually edit configuration files, but still...)
So I started to give Debian a serious look and played around with it on the Linux partition of my Laptop.
Not really currently having the time and given the fact that a Debian installation is not that trivial I put that project on the backburner for now.
This script however will provide me with the ability to install convert SuSE to Debian; play and get to learn the more esoteric aspects (for a SuSE user that is) and finally probably set the systems up from scratch.
Quite appropriate timing I dare say.
ich bin der musikant
mit taschenrechner in der hand
kraftwerk
I tried Debian last year and got as far as the installer at which point it would let me proceed no further, despite my best efforts, patience, reading of effing manuals and trying different versions. This further confirmed my commitment to Slackware. If they spent time fixing their installer, they wouldn't need to write a tool to assimilate other boxes.
Stick Men
Does it works with Knoppix distroes ? :)
If yes, I'd be glad to see how they otherwrite CDs
Trolling using another account since 2005.
Well, it's a simple 12KiB shell script, nothing much to see there. It's well written and it's a nice idea, though.
I would wait a couple releases before using it in a real environment though... hotswapping releases is a very tricky matter, and can screw up majorly your computer, expecially if it's done via a script.
My Stack Overflow user
Great...just waiting for someone to start combining all of these OS/distro converters with a worm.
Welcome to the OS Wars of '04. You never know what you'll boot. Debian? BSD? Windows 3.11?
Just a copy of the Depenguinator for BSD... Except this one is the Debianator? Bleh. If you really want to get rid of the old distro, and keep all of your important files back them up and do a fresh install.
Just my useless 2 cents.
Oh, thank you god. If this works, I can finally be rid of my system which can only be described as "Redhat 6.2... with an advanced slackware infestation."
Any tips? Can this handle the glibc upgrade without breaking all of my programs?
This document was created to help migrating a colo server. So it has been
used in the real world.
What is colo??
We are apt of borg. RPM is futile. You will be dpkg'ed.
You should use AdiumX on your Mac.
Now if only someone could write a nice worm targeting everything non linux we would have the world in our hands tomorrow!
Pinky!
HTTP/1.1 400
instead of writting a real installer well let you use what ever you want the just convert the configs almost deserves a muhahaha
Damn the man!
IIRC It was originally intended to convert a redhat installation in a server where the provider would only install redhat.
I really hate this kind of atitude.. I use GNU/Linux for many years now and used from Red Hat to Mandrake, from Slackware to Conectiva and now I focus more on Debian and Kurumin - and I have always faced this kind of atitude of "slack is for real men, the others are for sissy" or "use Gentoo or continue to lame". That is just plain and simple BULLSHIT!! (sorry for the cursing, but I think it's the only word that really fits into this case). There are numerous distribuitions with all kinds of package control systems, configurations and config-tools, diferent aplications, packages, and so on and so forth. The thing is, in my humble opition, there isn't anything like "a lamer linux" and a "hacker linux". GNU/Linux is simply GNU/Linux - and I have and always had the opinion that the person makes the system, not the way around. (thou many like to use Slack because it is "l33t" - go figure!) So, my final note is: Everyone has diferent tastes and needs, and has it's own way he likes to use his own computer so there isn't anything like "Mandrake rox and Debian sux" - just that for some people Mandrake is better, and for others Debian is the best choise (and so forth)!!! GNU/Linux is, after all, all about choise - so why curse and bring down others that choose diferent from us??
Speaking as a debian user for many years:
They do have a stable, modern distribution. It's called "testing". The not-so modern "stable" distribution is a dream tho.. You could drive a 15 ton tank through it and it'd still stay up. I've been running it on server (in the wild) for more than 2 years now with nary a problem. It's easy to maintain and has everything I need no more than an apt-get away. No recompilation, no searching for dependencies.. unlike some other distributions I've used.
I wish everything was that easy.
(I was only an egg, but then I cracked)
So, if I use this script, can I become one of the overlords?
// file: mice.h
#include "frickin_lasers.h"
When I was using Word I was 16, in grade ten computer science and wasn't exposed to TeX yet. What is your excuse?
Anon Coward... most likely "Anon Short Penis Coward"
Tom
Someday, I'll have a real sig.
We have seeing easier and easier installs for distros like Mandrake, SuSE or RedHat/Fedora, live-CDs, now we are experiencing the rise of converter tools like this Debian Domination Tool and the Depenguinator (already covered in slashdot as upgrade methos to a dead OS ;)...
;)
I think we are coming to a point where migrations between platforms, may they be windows->linux, linux->linux, linux->bsd or bsd->linux will become *really* seamless, and even some funny ideas like worm-spread of succesfull linux installations may become possible
My journal. Mainly about freedom.
As the website seems to be down, here's a link to the Google cache
Well, since each distribution contains different packages with different paths... this is not an easy task. Ideally, each distribution would use one way of doing things. The init scripts and network configuration would be done in a standard way that any "Linux" tool could change easily. If you want to use deb packages on redhat or rpm on debian, it is just a matter of installing the respective package manager on each. A "best practices" documentation on how exactly a Linux distribution should work wouldn't be a bad idea. In a perfect world, changing from redhat to debian would involve simply installing the debian package manager, which would detect which files/versions are there and update them with debian packages.
Didn't his father accuse chestnuts of being lazy?
This guy is way out there
For a second there, I thought it said 'Dubya World Domination Plan'.
They both want to take the world back to the 12th Century.
It seems that people are moving to another Linux distribution if you can read between lines in the following statement:r /corporate/2446
http://www.mandrakesoft.com/company/press/pr?n=/p
Anyway, it's certainly not a surprise: my feeling is that Mandrake is the Linux distribution the most close to Debian in its spirit. It's more friendly and offers more new features though.
It does not convert in the sense of mapping all previous installed packages to the Debian counterparts [..]
/home on a different partition anyway, right?)
:)
This would be the only way this tool could be useful, but it's impossible.
[..] but installs a base system or tarball and cleans traces from the previous distribution."
I fail to see the difference between this and a fresh install (you have put your
However, I'll admit it's a nice practical joke
Every expression is true, for a given value of 'true'
Another crippling bombshell his the !Debian Linux community today.. you know the rest..
Trolling is a art,
And it's not really that hard, if you read the Apt-Howto to maintain a mixed distribution - only upgrading those packages you need, while using stable for the rest.
Why?
I've always loved Linux, but never used anything but RedHat. But the last few releases (since they started mucking with KDE) left me dissatisfied. Is there a site that compares the major distros, kind of a pros and cons of each, their advantages over the others, etc.?
Anonymous Cowards suck.
Let's call it Brute Force Debian!
Should have upgraded my RH 7.3 box long time ago to something newer... but the Fedora way just didn't seem right to me.
Installing Debian from boot CDs and such didn't sounded so appealing to me,... I guess the OpenSource gods are with me today!
Thanks!
Oh well, let's just hope that I can make it through the day without anyone noticing. Then I'll be basking on the beach in So.Cal for a week. :)
I know god exists. I read it on the internet, so it must be true.
I've been running it on server (in the wild) for more than 2 years now with nary a problem
... so the kernel they're running on hasn't gotten all the important security fixes it should have. I love long uptimes as well but since you can't switch the kernel without rebooting (or can you (except for modules)?) it might turn into a security risk, depending on how accessible the computer is (happened to debian homepage not too long ago).
...despite my best efforts, patience, reading of effing manuals and trying different versions.
If you're using EFF as a curse word, you must have been sent by the *AA!!
pi = 3.141592653589793helpimtrappedinauniversefactory7
Here's a test case for you Debian clinicians :)
t ch-your-system step I always have to do right now, and configuring the sound system can be a mess too. Mandrake ( like Knoppix and many other distros ) autodetects my hardware and installs the drivers I need without a scratch. THIS AND THIS ALONE is why, according to me, Debian is not ready for the desktop : decent overall hardware autodetection.
My plan right now is to install Mandrake 10.0 which will be released in the next couple of days, and then wait until Debian has decent hardware autodetection during install to switch. See, I just HATE the download-old-Nvidia-drivers-on-w3m-and-somehow-pa
What I'd like to know is, would the debtakeover tool enable me to completely convert a Mandrake box into a Debian box while keeping my hardware settings intact ? If so, that'd be fantastic, even though this ought to be a buggy ride because the tool is still beta...
P.S. I'm somewhat of a Debian newbie and I know so, you don't have to confirm...
United States of America, good ol' backers of world peace.
If I am ever in the market for Professional Evil Overlords, remind me not to hire this guy.
If you're not outraged, you're not paying attention.
I think he just said "RTFS"
Once installed, it starts scanning the local network for new hosts. ;-)
/* This sig is disabled. Press CTRL-W to enable. Thankyou */
it might just be do-able on windows, ... now that would be funny !
I don't think that statement IS offtopic. My point is that if they can't get their own installation process working properly how in the hell are they going to modify someone else's?
RedHat conversion tool 1.0 tries to convert RedHat users to Fedora users. It does not work.
Waiting for v 2.0, which converts former RadHat users back to RedHat.
If debian wants to dominate the desktop, my guess would be that it will cost it's great server reputation, thus dominating .. nothing at all. .*-server in a non-internet site, something that never worked in my redhat(>6.2) days.
I like debian because it is a light yet powerfull distribution. I don't have to take more than one cd with me if I want to install a fully working
It would be better to just use a debian system and create a good working desktop system based on debian (like knoppix did) and release it as a distribution different from debian. Debian maintainers could do this by themself, create a parrallel distro, but obviously they are not at all interested in desktop debian.
Don't confuse the man with words.
apt-get install -t testing
That's all you need.
...no searching for dependencies...
I installed debian on my laptop this weekend, and after the install, I couldn't even build menuconfig to upgrade the kernel.
I've found that most of the packages have really funky names. They don't call glibc glibc, they call it libc6. And even that isn't enough, to do anything you need libc6-dev. Same with libcurses, that wasn't enough, I needed libcurses-dev, just to compile against ncurses. Finally I catch on to this naming system, and try to install g++-dev (btw, why doesn't this install with gcc, the Gnu Compiler Collection?) and it can't find the package. After a while of searching around, I find it's g++. Took me a good day to compile a new kernel, just because I couldn't find anything.
Now, I can't get linux-wlan-ng to work with it, although I'm not going to hold that against debian because I am now running 2.6.1, however, when I had Gentoo on that same box it handled it without a glitch.
The up-side, however, far outweighs the downside of using debian over gentoo on that box, because you just can't compile everything from source on a Pentium MMX, you'll be there for weeks.
This page was generated by a Flock of Attack Kittens for you.
The attitude of "turn services off and you don't need a firewall" is wrong.
The problem with the server breakins amplifies this.
Either debian is strictly for techs, or its not.
If not, debian needs a simple firewall for all installation scenarios. Not including a firewall is malpractice. More than one firewall option is no excuse.
Adding a firewall application after an install is no good either. And it is too late.
A simple firewall front end needs to be included in every possible setup situation, from unstable to testing to stable, from plain vanilla, to knoppix, to damnsmalllinux.
Not providing firewall protection from the start shows that the debian project suffers from tunnel vision. They fail to see a problem, and fail to fix it because of this.
We jussst need anotherss kernel esssploit
*looks at the debian swirl* my precioussss
My english is sow-sow. Sowhat?
[pinky]What are we going to do tonight, Brain? [/pinky]
[brain]Same thing we do everynight Pinky... try to take... er... Install Debian's new runtime conversion patch [\brain]
This would finally be a good reason to make a beneficial worm. Think of all the problems that would arise from making everything Debian. The anarchy that ensues would somehow create jobs outside of INDIA and I could get off of unemployment doing IT work.
Where do I sign up?
a slut did tulsa
As long as it doesn't try to automatically install and run every time a redhat 9 user accesses gnu.org or debian.org, I'm not worried.
Just like the instant BSD thing that was posted a couple of weeks ago.
Nice to see it extended beyond BSD to other systems.
Now all we need is a win32 virus to initiate 'upgrading' to your choice of *nix flavor.
---- Booth was a patriot ----
Try 'apt-cache search g++ dev'
It tells you the names of all the packages relating to the keywords ('g++' and 'dev' in the above example).
(I was only an egg, but then I cracked)
Debian used to snub KDE, alright. Thing is, they no longer do. So cut them some slack, who cares what they used to do and say as long as they've changed and improved. Don't blame the current distro for how it used to be managed.
/., I found that as you mature, you eventually reach a point where you're tired of fiddling with stuff all day long, and end up only using stuff that Just Works the way YOU want. In that regard, Debian+KDE is pretty much a killer combo.
In fact, if Debian keeps improving that way, it may very well become a strong contender for the desktop, which would be a Really Good Thing. While we may be a much of geeks here on
(NB: Nope, I don't currently use Deb on my desktops, but if it keeps its current trend I may well switch eventually.)
-- B.
This sig does in fact not have the property it claims not to have.
Oh, wait.. the second link goes to hadrons.org... Forget what I just said.
with competition like this ...
Dr. Frued will see you now.
n/t
most trashed PCs these days are still acceptable performers
/vanilla option. It works great!
I literally picked up a discarded Compaq desktop from the local town dump. It had Win98 (with no password, BTW). I ran fdisk then Debian Woody disc 1 with
"A'nal nathrach, orth' bhais's bethad, do che'l de'nmha. "
Someone's been watching John Boorman's "Excalibur" far too much! Still, it's a good tagline.
Elgon
What is wrong with that? If I don't have any services listening, how are you going to connect to my machine to attack? Nope sorry, I don't use outlook express or IE on my gentoo box :)
...hmmmm...how exactly can one connect to a system that is not listening for connections? expecially if there are no services installed yet? A deaf man might as well listen to the sound of one hand clapping.
Two words: "Clean Install". No problems.
"Who are in control, they are not in control of anything - they don't even control themselves!" - Glen Beck
Today, we salute you, Mister Production-Random-Shell-Script-Runner...
* because you've earned it.
(Mister Production-Random-Shell-Script-Runneeeerrrrrr...
Your ineptitude with your daily systems administration tasks means that we have plenty of server downtime and lost data...
(OohoOOoho data all gooonneee...)
Don't take it personally, we all know that you'd be out on your ass in a minute, if you weren't the boss's son...
(WOOohooOhhoHh kickbacks from the big maaannnn...)
So crack open an ice-cold Bud Light, Mister Production-Random-Shell-Script-Runner...*ksschtt!
(Reeeeaall American heeerroooooessss...)
Hey, just as an Aside. I bought a refurbished HP computer yesterday (Overnight delivery from HP) and when I turned it on, I found an empty folder on the harddrive called "Ipod", interesting no? -dennison
The installer is very sufficient, just because it does not install a cookie cutter installation does not mean it is bad.
In fact, I believe Debian has a great installation / package management system in the fact that you can easily script a Debian Install (great for OEMs). To see what I mean, I created a Debian Sarge Install guide using very simple apt-get scripts, and I am in the process of creating scripts for different types of servers that I use/sell as my business.
Check out my install guide at www.pcc-services.com/files/debian_install.pdf.
As for the issue of stable being used for multiple years, I also like this fact. I make a living on supporting computer network systems, and I have used other Linux Distributions, and everytime I wish I hadn't because of their release schedules. Most Distros release 2 or 3 "Stable" Releases a year. I cannot keep up with them since things change with each release. If I try, not only do I waste countless hours figuring out what has changed with each release, but I cannot possibly reliably support every version of the Distribution when the release schedule is like it is. Also, I have tried to stick with only a certain version of Distributions, but the way people are, they think that if there is a new version out that their servers need to be on the current version.
So, what I decided to do as a computer consulting business is to standardize on one Distribution, which will be Debian Sarge (when released) until the next stable version of Debian is released. Since my main source of income is in fact Servers, this should suit my business well.
I think it might be kind of a joke.
Congratulations! Now we are the Evil Empire
Gee Murdock what are we going to do tomorrow night?
Same thing we do every night Jover, release a new Debian build to take over the world!!!.
They are kinky they are pinky and the brain brain brain brain brain!!!!
Linux is "good" because it is open.
We wouldn't have a problem with MS if it wasn't a convicted monopoly, or more specifically didn't do all the things it did to bring about that judgement. We get really antsy because it is a closed, expensive system, whose primary goal is vendor lock-in. Linux is about open standards, not technological serfdom.
If MS released a "Linux Upgrade Kit", it wouldn't be free, and people would laugh.
Dude. Chill. Where in the article, or the links did it say it was "OK"? It just stated a fact. Where was Microsoft mentioned in any way/shape/form/fashion? This is not comparable to MS releasing a "Linux upgrade kit", although they could, since linux's code is open-source, and their's is closed. This would be sort of like patching Windows 95 to Windows 98. No one is holding a gun to anyone's head to run this script. It is completely voluntary. If someone wants to run Debian, but already has a Red Hat box running (like me), would you prefer they were screwed, with no option save reinstall? The whole point of the "world domination" thing is completely not selfish, it is about everyone having software that does what they want it to, that is secure, and is stable. What does Linux have to gain? It is not like he is a glory hound or greedy. People just so happen to give him shares of their IPO, and jobs. Also, give Linus' biography a read sometime.
1) Please RTFA and don't jump to conclusions next time.
2) This IS a good thing, for those who want/need it. The name is tongue-in-cheek anyway.
3) Anyone can release anything they want, whether or not it gets run/bought is a different story. Now, if you will excuse me, I am going to drive my Lincoln Blackwood to the store for some New Coke.
I hate sigs.
Linux+deb aren't inherently good, nor is MS inherently bad. The problem is that MS considers "upgrades" (I use the term loosely) and fixes (again, loosely) as profit centers, to be forced upon customers whenever the revenue stream slows down. Linux (and Open Source/Free Software in general) gets fixed simply because it's the right thing to do. Software isn't perfect, but Linux distributors usually have the integrity to let their users know when some problem is discovered, and where to find the fix/patch.
On a related point, Free/Open Source is, just as the name suggests, free and open to the public, warts and all. Where Microsoft says, "trust us, and here's a bill for $150 plus tax," Free/Open Source says, "here's the code, how did we do?"
In most distributions (unlike the source based gentoo), you need to install extra packages that provide the library headers to compile against them.
Most of them are in the form
XXXX-dev
Using another distribution outside the one(s) you are familiar with takes a bit of getting used to.
I, for one, find Gentoo slightly irrating to have to wait for the big packages to compile, sometimes taking hours (and thus, I don't really have the incentive to upgrade my system, whereas for debian a full upgrade would take at most an hour to a few moments depending on the configuration)
Doesn't debootstrap already do this?
A lot of people say they hate Microsoft because they say its on a mission of world domination.
... in the sense of becoming really populiar ... who would have thunk? Of course, GNU/Linux will never truly dominate anything, as dominion implies restriction of the freedom and choice of others, which is something a free, GPLed operating system can never do, by design.)
Linus has been talking about world domination for 10 years.
[...]
So when its microsoft, people get antsy, but when its linux or debian, world domination is ok ?
Is that because
1) linux+debian are "inherently" good, and microsoft is inherently bad?
2) people are hypocritical and don't think more than about 8 inches infront of them
3) some other reason im missing..
1 and 3 are the correct answers.
3: Humor is a difficult concept I know, but try to follow along. Linus has been talking about "world domination" as a joke, not as a serious agenda. Any reading of his comments, in context, should make this abundantly clear (as should the historical context in which those of us using Linux in the early days circa 1993 never expected it to have the success it has had today).
which leads us to
1: Microsoft really is about world domination, and has a tremendously long track record of anti-competative behavior as a convicted monopolist to drive that point home. Microsoft really is about denying people choice, and has every intention of eradicating any viable alternative to their monopoly. Linux (even an arrogant distribution like Debian) has always been about choice, and Debian's occasional arrogance aside, this script's description as a "world domination utility" is almost certainly tongue in cheeck (c.f. "humor") and not meant seriously. In other words, yes, Microsoft (as defined by their own behavior) is Evil, and Linux (as defined by the behavior of its community) is generally Good.
And I say that as one who uses Gentoo and will never go back to Debian (ie. one who should "feel offended" if in fact I took this seriously, which I do not). It is a clever tool with a funny name based on an old, old joke, made all the funnier for having become a possibility (GNU/Linux really could "dominate" the world
If MS released the "Linux Upgrade Kit" that put whatever SKU of windows you wanted on the box, people would be furious.
They have (or haven't you been following their press releases), and while people are annoyed, no one seems to be particularly "furious." The reaction is more one of "rolling our eyes." A migration kit from Linux to Windows will get about as much use as a football bat...but it is fun to watch the behomeoth flounder and flail around.
The Future of Human Evolution: Autonomy
Do you have an MCSE? Have you ever taken one of the exams?
i can't wait 'till script kiddies get their hands on this one!
Privacy is terrorism.
Imagine if Microsoft will play this game. Or is it preparing for it already?..
Less is more !
How long before some virus writer uses this proof-of-concept code as the payload for a windows rpc worm I wonder?
I have in my spindly little fingers right now a compact disc that if inserted into a computers cdrom drive will partition and format the first hard drive and install a fully updated version of Windows XP with many bells and whistles.
The point? Microsoft already HAS written such a tool. It's in their installer. It's really fucking handy.
Yes I have.
I work for 6/hr at a bookstore while I go to school.
The most useless pieace of paper money can buy. I have also been using Linux/FreeBSD since 98, yet makes no difference compared to a college degree. Of course the economy sucks too, but If I could start over, I would of never taken those courses.
I learned more from reading slashdot and my unix books, then any mcse course could ever offer. Memorizing mouse clicks does not mean one is an administrator.
http://saveie6.com/
My browser was blank. But I was able to retrieve it using curl -O http://www.pcc-services.com/files/debian_install.p df
I AM a commie terrorist, you insensitive clod!
Do not meddle in the affairs of geeks for they are subtle and quick to anger
If we're going to be starting another distro war, I think everyone should take a look at these three projects which aim to release a free edition of RedHat Enterprise Linux. Once you've got one of these running, even if these distro go under, you can still get SRPMS security updates from RH and build them yourself through 2008.
Tao Linux
White Box Linux
cAos
What we will go to make brain tomorrow? What we make pink every day, to try to dominate the world.
What Debian really needs is a program which can back up a Debian system by noting which packages are installed and then just saving /home, /usr/local, /etc, /var, /opt and so on. It would make backups a lot more sane and sensible.
"The urge to fly from modern systems, instead of moving through them to even greater, fairer things is, I think, an indi
Isn't that what Bruce Perens has in mind with UserLinux?
Wow, you truly are an asshole.
Your opinions are wrong and ugly, like your emotions!
"Someone set us up the Debian!"
It's "SOME*BODY* SET *UP US* THE DEBIAN", dumbass.
Yeah we are all in mourning about that
What this does is give peace of mind to developers who want to write for the Debian environment. Users/admins can easily run a script to make their systems compatible.
That's the cool thing about Debian stable. It _has_ gotten all the security updates. Debian backports every single one. If a security fix can't be backported, then they will bite the bullet and move the most tested secure version into the stable distribution. Security first, then stability, then everything else.
There have been new kernel packages recently to correct the exploits, such as the local exploit used in the Debian incident. This affected all kernels, of course, and had nothing to do with Debian per se. When you upgrade the kernel, of course you have to reboot. Stability isn't just (or necessarily at all) about getting long uptimes. It's also about controlling downtime. Almost all applications can handle being down for 90 seconds at 3:42 AM on a Sunday morning.
Another benefit of this patching method is that you aren't forced to upgrade programs _just_ because old ones have security problems that you, personally, can't afford to backport. If your application relies on MySQL or some other fairly complex program, you really don't want to be upgrading that at all without testing, if you can help it. If it wasn't for Debian, you'd get all the latest features (and all the latest bugs) along with the security update. Debian takes care of that for you and you can keep using the old, known-stable version.
Yeah, they seem to be interested only in the fetus while it's still in the womb. When you're born, you are out of luck, Jack.
If you get right down to it, the anti-choice are less about "saving the children" and more about controlling the lives and choices of women. A barefoot-and-pregnant woman having babies every 9 months is also likely to be tied down to home and hearth, with none of the "uppity" ambitions that give these (mostly) men fits. She's also likely to die young, too.
A century ago, women like Margaret Sanger took up the cause of birth control because of the plight of the wife-as-baby-factory. Yes, she also had weird ideas about eugenics, but aside from those (which were common in her era) her arguments about the necessity of birth control are still valid.
In societies where safe and effective birth control is available and women are able to plan their families, women and children lead better lives. All religions except the Catholic Church and a small subset of Orthodox Judaism accept birth control now.
The thing that the anti-choice need to support is artificial womb research. If they want to end abortions, they should support research into making them obsolete. Instead of "killing" a fetus, you simply transfer it out of the womb and into the artificial womb until it comes to term. Then when the child is born, you find willing families to adopt.
Oh, silly me. Lots of kids are waiting for adoptive homes...where are the anti-choicers when the time comes to adopt? They're not there? What happened to "adoption, not abortion?" It went the same place as caring for the "poor unborn children" when they get born.
Knowledge is power. Knowledge shared is power multiplied.
Installing or upgrading Windows will always hose your boot sector so that you lose Linux. Recent versions will try really hard to repartition your drive or reformat the unknown sectors, though I have been told you can stop this by hitting No enough times. So Microsoft has already released their version of this.
Check out: http://linuxmafia.com/faq/Debian/installer
'....."The Debian installer sucks!" People saying this are astonished to hear me reply "Which one?"....'
Once in a while, I even pass the Turing-Test
You're completely right. I'm a sysdamin in a university controlling about 40 machines, all of them running debian stable. Administating them is really a breeze. Security updates are out really fast and quickly applied. The point I was making was that simply downloading a security patch for a kernel, applying it and rebuilding a kernel (which is very comfortable with kernel-package) isn't enough: you actually need to install the kernel and reboot the machine in order to secure your machines against exploits that the particular patch fixes.
Continuous and long uptimes (without 90 second pauses) can easily be accomplished with debian. It's other things that prevent long uptimes (like hardware failures or security concerns).
Fortunately, one of the mods marked it "Funny" - understanding that the joke is on us for ever believing him.
It is now easy to install a Debian :
1. install Mandrake
2. run this script
Et voila !
That's right! Eat some http://www.gentoo.org weenies!
> Ever run win2k3? No? Because win9x sucked so hard? double standards are fun.
Exactly what in my post makes you assume I've never run the later Windows, and that I don't judge it based on the exact same standards I apply to Debian and whatever other distro I happen to be running right now?
As it happens, as far as closeness to the ideal "it should Just Work, the way *I* want it to" goes, even the latest Windows are behind on both counts -- partly because its idiosyncrasies are often hard to solve, when they're end-user solvable at all, while that of my current chosen Linux distro are not for whomever knows what they're doing, which I like to believe I do. Thus making that distro much closer to the "Just Works" ideal for me than Windows.
Some of us DO check out competing offers and then decide purely on which is the best tool, which doesn't have to be the one your biases (or paycheck) drags you to. Cope.
-- B.
This sig does in fact not have the property it claims not to have.
His first name's spelled Gollum ... not Guillem.
He calls the script my_precious on the Debian list.
Debian. I've used apt-get and other tools that use Debian pkgs. Check out Fink.
If I could start over, I would of never taken those courses.
Would *OF* never taken? Can you even remotely attempt an explanation of how that phrase makes any sort of logical sense?
Oh yeah. I guess was reading him to say that he didn't have to do anything complicated or un-Debian in two years, not that he had two years of uptime. Two years of uptimes would definitely = vulnerable server.
...and Unstable for those of us who live on the bleeding edge. Seriously, living on the edge is not fun. When the maintainers decide to change the wireless LAN software so that my 802.11 card is no longer eth1 but now wlan0, I need to be able to reconfigure quickly so that my laptop isn't unusable for an extended period.
That's why it's called unstable, because it really is. Things change, sometimes substantially.
Every objection you have is valid, with the caviat that Debian is not difficult for someone who has done it more than once. Installing Debian doesn't take me multiple hours or days, it takes little for the base install and the pre-designed task-based "standard" packages. Just because I choose to select packages through dselect one at a time doesn't mean you have to.
Knoppix is indeed astounding, and the hardware detection system Knopper uses is being fed back into the main distribution. When I installed on the laptop I'm using right now, a Vaio PCG-GRT170, I used Knoppix as the install medium.
I would not recomend this method unless Knoppix does everything you want it to do already, or you like installing software by hand. The dependencies and unique packages built into Knoppix make bringing it into the mainstream Debian update system a serious effort.
If you want to install Debian, get the minimalist 30MB CD image. This puts a small base system in place to be built into whatever you want it to be.
Bob-
The Ludwig von Mises Institute. The reasoning individuals economics
Chapter 3.7 of the Debian Install HOWTO describes a cross install method for debian which works quite well.
I used it when I needed to install debian on a computer with new adaptec scsi controller which was only supported in 2.4.22+ :- boot Knoppix
- Follow Cross Install Instructions
- Ready.
Ok, it's not One-click-cross-install (tm).But if you need such a tool, why are you installing debian? You'd better use Fedora, Mandrake or Suse in this case.
while (!asleep()) sheep++
In comparison with Slackware 9.1 (which i use on my desktop), debian 3(r2) which i just tryed on my input device less network gateway, looks really simpler in his statup and configurations scripts. /etc part of debian vs slackware.
I had to uninstall debian (lack of patience i know i know). But i really dont like the
What do people who use both think about it?
Me, you naked and a pertification ray, you little hot bitch !
Try this sometime:
and no not THAT tool either.
little package manager we're working on is lightweight and universal, so hey, you can slowly transform your system into a new one (or quickly do it) easily. since it'll use a universal way of doing things.
Testing uses a different libc than stable, so there is a limit to how much you can mix these two. Of course apt-source is always there.
I don't have to take more than one cd with me if I want to install a fully working .*-server in a non-internet site, something that never worked in my redhat(>6.2) days.
Yes, I hate the bulky 3 CD stack as well. I sometimes need my 2 friends to help my carry my distro. 3 CDs are extremely heavy. My arms are like noodles. Fettucine.
Stable: Old software (gnome 1.3 etc)
Testing: No security updates
Unstable: Less stability
It's easy to maintain and has everything I need no more than an apt-get away.
Ha ha don't make me laugh. All you apt zealots make it sound like it's nothing to add software.
xxx@xxx~# apt-get install newpackage
xxx@xxx~# newpackage needs packageXXX but packageXXX will not be installed. use -f to force
xxx@xxx~# apt-get -f install newpackage
xxx@xxx~# newpackage needs packageXXX but packageXXX will not be installed. use -f to force
It's like the "How do you keep a Polock occupied" joke
... GENTOO IS BETTER!
At least I hope it is.. I've never used it before and I did an emerge system before I left for work today. With any luck I'll be using it by the end of the day (or night).
I remember when legal used to mean lawful, now it means some kind of loophole. - Leo Kessler
It is interesting to note that Mr. Perens helped solidify the organizational structure of Debian over the course of years. For that I am grateful.
But there is something between him and KDE. After he left Debian, KDE was brought in and is now well supported and integrated within Debian. I very much like being able to run Qt and GTK applications seamlessly at the same time regardless of what the window manager is.
As titular head of this UserLinux thing, he comes out and declares that the desktop will be GNOME and only GNOME.
Yet, right there for everyone to see, is Debian with GNOME and KDE existing side by side without conflict.
I'm sure Mr. Perens has a good reason for his preference. I cannot imagine what it is.
Bob-
The Ludwig von Mises Institute. The reasoning individuals economics
Sounds like an immensely clever tool.
One I'll probably never use.
Why would anyone want to run *only* Debian? RedHat/Fedora? Slackware? SuSE? Solaris? HP-UX? AIX?
I don't really understand ideas like this. They make no sense from the standpoint of systems evolution and the bazaar mentality. I can see where such tools could be used if one was migrating a bunch of servers, but again: why would you ever want to run only a single distro/OS? Show me a tool that converts Debian -> Slackware, Solaris -> Debian, Gentoo -> Fedora, etc. and THEN you've really got my attention.
--rc
I'm not implying that you're nosey, but from what I imagine, it must be easy to see where the previous owner surfed, & to be able to login to his favourite sites, since he probably selected a "remember me" feature. You'd probably have a lot of access to super private information. Like I said, I'm not implying that you're nosey. I just want to know how easy it is.
testing out my trending skills
Except that there are backports to stable for just about everything you might want to run. What annoys me most is that once you go from stable to testing, you can not go back.
Debian is Slow, Worse, Expensive
/lib/modules, as you are going to need it.
Open source may be good, but there is one example that sticks out like a sore thumb as a problem with open source. Debian gnu/Linux. It is offically the Worst Linux Distribution ever made.
First of all, Debian has the most out of date software packages of any major mainstream distros. Even in the unstable version, is KDE 2.2 and Gnome 2.0, with Xfree86 4.1 (A version that really sucks). There are literally years that pass between each update of Debian.
Secondly, its a pain in the goatse to set up, first of all, you are forced to use Kernel 2.2, which is horribly hacked with "backports" to get any use on any modern machine (Read, made after 1999). Good luck memorizing all the *.ko files in
Configuring XFree86 is hell! If you don't have a Thick X11 orilley book, and a list of your horizontal sync values from your monitor's intruction manual (if you even have one), BOOM! There goes your monitor.
Even then, good luck getting anything over 640x480@16 colours.
The most common response to help questions on the Debian mailing list is "n00b, READ THE FUCKING MANUAL, you idiot, go back to WINDOWS XP if you can't learn to use dselect", true too, search the archives if you think I'm lying. Other distros give you comprehensive PRINTED MANUALS, PHONE SUPPPORT and/or freindly forums where repling RTFM gets you banned!
Debians support for any decent hardware, including USB mice, scanners, Sound cards, heck even Serial devices struggle. If you can even get 80x25 text mode with PS/2 input devices you are really lucky.
Apt-get has many flaws. First of all it uses a non standard package format (the rest of the world uses RPM, deprecate the DEB format!), has broken respetories, and out of date software to install. All this combined with the kludgey dselect user interface make package management a nightmare.
And if you think I'm joking about this, find out why THOUSANDS of Debian users are switching to REAL distributions Debian is falling to pieces, if it is to survive any market share it will be through its superior forks (Xandros, Lindows, K/G-noppix) and unoffical package respetories.
Of course, while all this is going on, the only thing the Debian maintainers do is argue about politics on the mailing lists. The distribution decays while its creators argue over inane details like software licensing and the virtues of Marxism. Please! Spare me the political rhetoric and just give me a working distro!
Don't get me wrong, I love Linux, and I'm happily using distros such as Mandrake, SuSE, Gentoo and Fedora. But I'm sick to death of zealots that push obsolete Distros on me EVERY FREAKING TIME linux is mentioned. I'm speaking from real world experiance here.
I am pro-life and it really irks me that you first of all call me anti-choice and second say Im about controling the lives and choices of women. So from here on out Im going to put things into perspective(I did this to my women's studies professor when she made the same mistake) and refer to your movement as ANTI-LIFE. Now Ill take on your other mistake. The anti-life movement tries to make abortion about women's rights. I believe its more about the three persons involved and thats why I am pro-life. The three people are obviously the Mother, the Father, and the Child. ALl there have rights and responsibilities in this and choices in this situation. First the child has the right to live. Some may say that the child is just a featus and there fore is not a person. Studies have proven that babies are concious and have thought processes while still in the womb and that conciousness makes that featus a human being and there for has a right to live. Next lets examine the Father and Mother together. As another poster has already pointed out they descided to have sex(Im not going to examine the issue of rape because I see that as a seperate issue and my beliefs there very slightly in that I believe the rapist should be castrated and be made to pay reparations to the victim and Im not sure where I stand on abortion there). I am not some virginial hermit who has never had sex. Everytime I have sex with a woman I make a concious choice that I am willing to have the child with her and support her monitarily, phyisically, and emotionally through out the pregnancy and examine our options together as to if we want to get married or give the baby up for adoption or share custody in some way. That is the problem with most people and abortion. Abortion is simply a way out of a mistake that distroies a human life. Its not about choice. Both persons have already made the choice by having sex. BTW, I took womans studies because I am a big supporter of women's rights all over the world and I cant stand weak women and it sickens me to see women who let themselves be dominated. Fact of the matter is I saying that all pro-life advocates are against womens rights is just as bad as saying that all pro-choice advocates are against life. It is two sets of people seeing the same very grey issue from two differing view points. I dont personally think abortion needs to be outlawed. I think that sex education and the way sex is looked at in the US needs a reevaluation. Oh, and just for shits and giggles, my women's studies professor and I had a debate on the subject and in the end that was the conclusion we both came to. And just to bring it back on topic, Debian rules because its about many people of differing view points comming together to work on something they all agree is a good thing and finding common grounds and working out disagreements to the betterment of all. That is what made the US great at one time, but now its in decline because everyone is greedy and wants the biggest share of the pie.
"We Don't Need No Truthless Heros!" - Project 86
... will it install the GNU/Linux meme in the owner of the system?
I have discovered a truly marvelous sig, unfortunately the sig limit is too small to contain i
http://216.239.57.104/search?q=cache:5dpG0ytH5tUJ: www.hadrons.org/~guillem/debian/debtakeover/debtak eover+&hl=en&ie=UTF-8
You are out to lunch if you think a commercial distro like mandrake is anything like Debian. Gentoo resembles Debian by far more than any other distro out there.
it will force them to get their act together. This is what I like about linux. If someone makes a better dist all the other ones attempt to catch up and surpass. Scripts like these only multiply this effect! :)
When I read this, Agent Smith popped into my mind. Maybe that's where Debian got the idea.
it is a historical reference. In olden times, when Windows was still a user-visible bolt-on to DOS, DOS was notorious for not getting along well with other operating systems on the disk.
Honi soit qui mal y pense, but you typically had quite a few hassles in installation order and so on before getting multiple systems on a disk.
Now with DOS 4.something, the installation refused in the partitioning stage when it detected OS/2 on a partition, and referred you to a help document.
And that document contained the hilarious entry (from memory)
How to erase an OS/2 partition and upgrade it to MSDOS 4.x
That was a running joke for some time to come.
Seems like it has been forgotten by now.
But that wasn't your point now, was it?
The more you know, the less you need. [Admin added: from me.]
It's not the GPL, but Linux which is turning viral.
I am Gigabyte, Destroyer of Systems!
Laissez lire, et laissez danser; ces deux amusements ne feront jamais de mal au monde. - Voltaire
I've never written that LINUX isn't ready for the desktop, I've written that DEBIAN wasn't. Xandros, Lindows, Mandrake, they're able to handle the desktop market big time, while Debian desperately needs an easy installer.
The difference between servers and desktops ? Server installations target IT people, while desktop installations must be usable by Joe Sixpack. When I wrote that Debian isn't ready for the desktop, I meant it wasn't easy enough for the masses to use it, and I think it's mainly because of installations hassles ; your 4-year experience isn't a relevant argument, just like saying "Windows 98 is safe, it never crashed here" isn't either. Common people are very much more dependant on features like hardware autodetection than IT people, because hardware installation involves informations and techniques most people don't know about. I just can't believe you're comparing the Windows installation with Debian's... Many distros have great installers, but Debian has one of the worst from the easiness perspective ; I know there have been good reasons for this ( e.g. many architectures to support ) but I think it's time to set the installer as a priority for Debian. In fact, I think the Debian team recognizes this right now and are working toward this goal ; it ought to be done, since many Debian-based distros like Knoppix and Libranet now have way more appeal because they just install way easier.
United States of America, good ol' backers of world peace.
Keep this out of the hands of MS.. I am sure they will chase this "Technology" to the ends of the earth :) They best have all sorts of patents and copyrights to hold MS back :)
Who needs WiFi when we can have Packet Over Sheep! http://datacomm.org/PoS-InternetDraft.txt
Now we just need an ActiveX version so one can Debianise their Windows box from the comfort of Internet Explorer!
nah.... gentoo users could do that for years....
:) :( 'im ashamed
we just
emerge debian-stable
this is a very lame joke
I for one, welcome our new hot grits... PROFIT!
Perhaps reading Slashdot and your UNIX books have taught you something about Linux, but you'd better hope your college degree will improve your grammar and spelling a little.
Isn't this what agent smith did in Matrix Reloaded?
GCC != Gnu Compiler Collection
GCC == Gnu C Compiler.
So if you wanting the Gnu C++ Compiler, Yes you would have to install g++.
Your hair look like poop, Bob! - Wanker.
Debian sucks... I don't know a single person that uses Debian... from 12 friends I had using Linux, thanks to Mandrake, Red Hatand recently SuSE they just gave up and dropped Linux and starting using Windows XP which is rock solid and very stable. There are only 2 people left that still uses Linux, both uses Slackware now.
But anything that can do Debian sucks. Debian will not go anywhere... too many stupid and fundamentalist people are inside damaging it every day.
Forget Debian... and I think you need to start forgetting anything about Linux.
Linux had its opportunity and wasted it. Face it.
apt-file is a utility for searching the available packages list to find what package provides a particular file.
/[usr/]bin and /[usr/]sbin. Dependancies take care of themselves, but automating package specific configuration conversions would likely be a bit of work, but not impossible.
/.ed server.
This could be used to determine what packages are needed to provide the executables in
Of course all of this does depend on being able to download the utility from his now
Read, L
Now we can convert our bleeding-edge Gentoo distribution, into a Debian distribution with packages over two years old! Yay!
Karma: It's all a bunch of tree-huggin' hippy crap!
Actually, there was a follow up post suggesting that the script could eventually be used to switch a Debian Unstable system to Stable (and perhaps also the inverse?). If this feature is implemented, expect that code segment to change...
In addition to this, the Gentoo distribution would have been compiled from source and heavily optimised for your system, whereas your typical Debian binary package is optimised for 386.
386, you know, just in case the person couldn't afford a 486.
Or maybe it's because the 486 wasn't out yet when some of Debian's packages were last updated.
My new 1U that's currently shipping to me will be running it, anyway.
-- haaz.
Steve Mickeler's netinst image for Debian 3.0 "woody" would have done the trick for you. That and other specialised installers for Debian are detailed on my Debian installers page.
Yes, Knoppix (or Gnoppix, MEPIS, etc.) is a quite decent solution, and a leading one for some hardware situations (e.g., some SATA chipsets). It has the minor disadvantage of not being 100% Debian-compatible, e.g., its use of a /etc/sysconfig tree for networking.
Rick Moen
rick@linuxmafia.com
Who modded this funny? What? Step forward and prepare to be insulted.
The literal answer to your question is "Yes, you can alternatively install any other package that supplies mail-transport-agent, and it will still work fine." But that doesn't address the substance of your objection, which is that any MTA will, if installed to provide that functionality, listen on port 25, and potentially be attackable.
Well, strictly speaking, not even quite that: Packages nullmailer and ssmtp both also qualify (hands off all locally generated mail to a smarthost of your choosing) -- but that would entail delivery off-system.
So, the substance of your complaint is that Debian's default Exim installation listens on all network interfaces, even if you set it up for local mail delivery only. That's a valid but very minor complaint (and I plan to suggest through the Debian BTS that /etc/exim/exim.conf say "local_interfaces = 127.0.0.1" in such cases). But even aside from exim's good security history, that's a pretty farfetched attack mode, since that daemon would be running with only the authority of user "mail". (Exim drops privilege.) It's pretty tough to do much with that.
Now, if you'd said "It's too darned easy to end up with the RPC portmapper installed and running by default", I'd have considered that a stronger position. The remedy of course is to check running daemons soonest, and disable (and preferably remove) anything you aren't sure you need -- same as on any other *ix.
Meanwhile (on your broader point), I consider the Debian attitude of "If you didn't want it exposed, don't turn it on" to be infinitely more cheering than that "Don't worry about being security-competent; the holy firewall will protect you" one prevalent elsewhere. And a filter set ("firewall") is as close as an "apt-get install" of easyfw, firehol, firestarter, firewall-easy, fwbuilder, gfcc, gnome-lokkit, guarddog, knetfilter, mason, etc.
Rick Moen
rick@linuxmafia.com
GCC is the GNU Compiler Collection, which currently contains front ends for C, C++, Objective-C, Fortran, Java, and Ada, as well as libraries for these languages (libstdc++, libgcj,...). Further frontends are available.
This page was generated by a Flock of Attack Kittens for you.
Technically true, but...
That looks to be v. 1.4.5.
Between the packages available in testing and those available by typing "apt-get -t unstable install [name]", I just don't seem to encounter the problems you cite. Of course, having to pull XFree86 4.3.0 from "experimental" would have been annoying for those incautious enough to buy video chipsets needing it, but I managed to avoid that.
Rick Moen
rick@linuxmafia.com
Depenguinator "Upgrades" Linux to BSD http://bsd.slashdot.org/bsd/03/12/30/132225.shtml
Knoppix is cute, indeed. As I am writing this, I am using it on my super-new bought-today system, copying files from a small 60GB disk to a larger 120GB disk. The 60GB will be the new systems primary disk, while the 120GB go in to the old PC, soon to be called 'server'. Then I will run dpkg --get-selections on my old debian system and a --set-selections on my new system. This will (hopefully ;)) give me all the apps I use, on my new system without much hassle.
I have used Slackware in the early 90s, moving to redhat since Slackware wall a bit painful at the time, then to Suse because of their KDE support, and finally to Debian. I like it. One thing I learned though: no single distro is perfect. They all have their pros/cons. I still miss Suse, in some way, but apt-get, together with the fact that it is a not-for-profit organisation, keeps me sticking to Debian.
"It's too bad that stupidity isn't painful." - Anton LaVey
by the power of the 2.2 kernel, I shall strike down all who oppose me. My master plan of releasing KDE 3 in 2045 to coincide with the first successful retrieval of a Lunar lander back on Earth by NASA will lay the foundation for supreme domination.
We do that already. Check out Computerbank
Nothing - well thats something.
Not that I am a debian fun (have it on sparc64 and i3886) but Debian is the best.
However I suppose that the tool would only work on vanilla installations.