Slashdot Mirror
Online Business Model for a Band?
Backes asks: "I've seen a lot of submissions about P2P, iTMS, DRM, piracy, and the RIAA, lately. Apparently everyone has an opinion on this and most seem think that the recording industry are a bunch of greedy people that stick it to the consumer as well as their own artists. After hearing some of the stories, I'm not even sure that getting signed to a label would be the best course of action for an aspiring musician or band. So what is a better option? What would you, the Slashdot community, do to make it big on your own using the Internet?"
"What kinds of features would a site need? Would you pay for downloads of MP3s from a band's site or not? At what price? Would donations work, or would everyone just freeload? How often would you need updates or new songs to keep you coming back? If downloads were free, would you then buy a full length album from the site just to get the CD? What special features should the CD include? How would you get your name out? What do you think is the best course of action for a band that wants to completely circumvent the whole music industry process and do it themselves?"
Groupie model first, then business
Do not try to read the dupe, thats impossible. Instead, only try to realize the truth
What truth?
There is no dupe
How to protect your music/lyrics from being stolen. If I have a band and we publish music on the web (for free, or a price, whatever) how can I protect them from being stolen and used by another band?
Check out Magnatune. Motto: We're a record label. But we're not evil.
Illegal? Samir, This is America.
Do what Ween did, give your music away for free on your webstie, then sell CD's and concert tickets.
1. Give music away
2. ????
3. Profit
"After hearing some of the stories, I'm not even sure that getting signed to a label would be the best course of action for an aspiring musician or band. So what is a better option?"
Don't be stupid. If a label offers you a contract take it. If your career goes anywhere, you can renegotiate a better contract after the terms of the first have been completed
Vote for Pedro
Remember... information wants to be free. You have no right to earn money. Just provide all of your music. We will download it, and then tell you that if your music weren't crap, we'd pay for it.
See my journal for slashdot ID's by year. Mine created in 2005. http://slashdot.org/journal/289875/slashdot-ids-by-year
advertising and marketing is worth it for a new band, unless you think youre gonna be the next metallica. just get a good lawyer, and make sure that your contract isnt for the next 50 albums or some shit.
It seems to have worked for some 'indie' bands recently, using viral marketing - offering demos or live versions of their songs via p2p, or even the full song to get publicity
After they get a name for themselves with fans who download music to check out new stuff, they make an effort to get signed, the problem here being the production of new material if they used their best to get a name for themselves online
I don't think the internet would ever top the playing in bars to get your name out, but if mixed with services such as download.com - while sharing live or demo versions on p2p, you could build yourselves a name quickly. A lot of things would also depend on the type of record label who would sign you, the 'indie' kind who give out songs online for promotion, or the big labels who try to stop download and have huge budgets for promotion
Business Voyeur
After you've got some fans, then try to sell them something (cd, download, tshirts) and I think you will do better than starting with DRM.
SAILING MISHAP
Get one of your fat friends to do something really stupid, videotape it, and put it up on newgrounds with a music track. Then sell t-shirts.
Once you have a good band name the cash should just come rollin' in.
oh and it might help to be able to play an instrument.
Well, I am not famous, yet.. but I am working on exactly what you speak of, and here is a simplified version of what I am doing:
I have a living room studio where I record all of our practices and jam sessions to firewire harddrives. I use 24 channels to mix down about 6 different sized diaphram condensers and a few 57s here and there. There's all the gear we need (amps, bass, guitar, two keys, and a trap set), effects, a PA, and we have and now own the only copies of all our material. We all learn and teach each other to engineer.. play.. compose.. we all treat it democraticaly when decisions are to be made about lyrics, composition, song selection, mastering, mechandise, etc. With all this in our own hands, we all sell CDs and merch at our gigs and in our spare time (running to local record stores and getting things on consinement), and reinvest certain monies from band oriented sales into necessary things like legal docs or advice.. expensive promotional materials such as ads, cds, etc. Repeat.. profit. we've removed the need for a label at the expense of not having everything all at once. But with a bit of work, the band can work like a sucessful startup company, and we're having one hell of a time while we're at it!
pego the jerk
** "It's not my job to stand between the people talking to me, and the ones listening to me." -- Pego the Jerk
Unfortunately, I don't see a band making more than a moderate regional success without the aid of a lebel. The industry is just too closed to outsiders. You won't get your album shelved in Sam Goody, Wal Mart, and the like without the aid of a high-powered record company. The only other option is to join a smallish, "indie" label. While you still won't make MTV (most likely), a good indie label will be able to get you some exposure in independant record stores, radio stations, and the like. Some idie labels even band together in loose organizations, and can manage to get more clout that way. With this setup, you might be able to get a regional distribution in major outlets, but you still won't make the billboard charts. Sad to say, but if you want to be a rock star, you still have to play the label's games. At least until I get my plan to revolutionize the record industry underway...
That's right, I read at +2 and post at +1. Not even I care what I have to say.
here's one: first you make a myspace music account, then you plug it as often as possible. Like the one for my band, The Apples tee hee hee
My totally uneducated guess type advice on how to spread the word you exist?
become friends with everyone at your popular music shop. they'd probably know everyone who's anyone in the local music scene.
From there get to know people from WELL KNOWN local bands that play similar music and try to set up some shows where you can open for them. Unless you're an amazingly awesome band I doubt anyone's going to pay to download your music.
There's a lot of places now that will do small runs of bulk cds, I know musiciansfriend.com does it or has ads for a place that does it. Once you get known doing shows, get a few hundred CDs pressed up and sell them for $5 at your shows.
If you did free mp3s (dont do ogg unless every major player supports it cuz how many of your nongeek friends even heard the word before?) then I'm sure if you were good enough you could move some CDs off your own website.
Don't halfass on the CDs, 4 track recorded songs can be made to sound good enough to play loud on home/car stereos. Digital recorders are getting very cheap now too. Put effort into it... no matter how good your music is and how talented you guys are, if the recordings are shitty so aren't your record sales.
I don't know all the details behind becoming a big band, but one thing is for sure: If you go on your own, and you suck, you're going to go nowhere. (Hopefully you would realize this, though.)
There have been 'big names' that were mediocre groupd/people that their labels hyped like crazy (and who also generally had looks to help them out.)
Anyone looking for wide recognition would do well to become local stars. Especially if you live in a bigger city, being a local star, with fans who will post on the internet, will help your career if you try to be independent.
"What would you, the Slashdot community, do to make it big on your own using the Internet?"
Having a site with your work isn't enough these days. Unless you are the best of the best out of the billions of sites with the same type of content as yours, you won't be recognized. Although it might sound like a joke, but doing something wacky and weird will get you all the attention on the internet, as people start propagating and promoting your site to others. Take Star Wars Kid, realultimatepower.net, Yata, etc, for example, instant fame in a matter of days. Now, shifting from wackiness to the content you are promoting might be a more difficult challenge.
One thing that the RIAA, evil as it is, has apparently beaten into people's heads is the whole concept of "making it big." Why the hell should anyone? It's just music. I personally think it is ridiculous that sports and entertainment generate the kind of money they do. We need to rethink, as a culture, our priorities. Do I think people should be able to make a living off of music? Absolutely - if they are good enough. Do I think the RIAA or the musicians themselves shoud create million dollar iconic figures? Hell no. The RIAA is a problem. No question. But so is the belief that musicians, entertainers, and sports figures should make any more than the rest of us.
Promote using message boards like this one. Slashdot gets many hits, so perhaps if many people read this post they will check out my band, listen to our music, and buy our shirts.
But in all sincerity, we're starting our own label and going to focus on getting distributors to pick up our label. That way albums come out when we want, we get all the profit, and we still seem legitimate. There are services like DollarCD.com that allow musicians to get their stuff pressed for extremely good prices, then you just take care of the rest yourself. Pretty cool service.
And oh yeah, we rock =)
Shouldn't You expect more from your DJ?
You're either a musician or you're not. Play the music; everything else will take care of itself.
/. article and no link, or does this "band" not yet exist?), and just play, respectively.
I realize that doesn't answer your questions, so, in order: Flash, no (prefer FLAC), $0, kinda/yes, weekly, yes, doesn't matter, publicity (and you just blew it with a front-page
Haida Manga
1: Form a band/company/whatever /.'ers know what #3 is
2: Assume geeky
3: ???????
4: Profit!
Q: How does a Unix guru have sex? A: unzip;strip;touch;finger;mount;fsck;more;yes;umount;sleep
You might try to spread the word about your band by putting songs you've recorded up for download. You could go so far as to upload your songs onto P2P networks, where if people liked them they could spread like wildfire. This would, I imagine, get people interested in you and coming to your shows. That is, assuming you do play shows.
...thus spoke the waffle. and thus it was so.
I'm currently considering being my own label and selling CD's through CD Baby. My experience with them has been positive so far.
Is there heaven? Is there Hell? Is that a Tuna Melt I smell?-Primus
You could just self publish. Pay a manufacture to make you X ammount of CDs with your choice of tracks to put on them. Then you open your own little yahoo store and pay a couple of your friends to ship stuff for you.
Behold, another webcomic!
play shows.
:)
:D
That's all.
The "recording artist" is becomming something of an anacronism - or will become so IMO.
We are returning to a time when musicians get payed to actually perform their music, not just record it.
Ask a signed band, and the record company always, always gets the biggest cut of the money from record sales.
the band just counts on the sales driving concert attendance...but it's not really SALES driving the attendence, it's the people hearing the music.
and that hearing can now be achieved without the expenses of distribution from a decade ago.
that's truely why the Recording Industry is going to the toilet. The fleets of trucks driving to the stores and the warehouses of duplicatation equipment are already outdated - and that was really all that we needed those guys for. They didn't MAKE artists, the found and held them - like a zoo animal.
Give your music away, if you love it set it free. They will come to see you play if you rock
and I hope you do
link to your bands website?
The simple fact is it's not as easy as you'd think. I work for an indie record label, and we plan to start offering DRM-free downloads through artist websites in addition to more common practices such as CD sales, and even other download services such as iTunes. However, the cost of professional recording is damn near outrageous. You are looking at MINIMUM $20,000, and more realistically somewhere in the 30 - 50 thousand dollar range to get the quality you get in a CD you buy at a store today. It's not uncommon for majors to pay $150,000 per SONG to put out a CD. People can use the argument that with Pro Tools and other computer-based recording solutions that it shouldn't cost that much, and you can do it on your own. But if you record it in a garage it's gonna sound like a garage recording. Studios are built for sound, and they have very high end equipment and people who know how to use it as fluently as you type on a keyboard. THAT is what makes a recording sound good. Unfortunately without the backing of a label it's really hard for a band to make it big. Usually if anything they make one of their garage recordings, guerilla-market themselves to the point where they are well known in their area and then get a label to pick them up so they can make a "real" recording. I will probably get flamed for saying all this, but it's the sad truth. Not ALL labels are evil. The majors are, and unfortunately a lot of the little labels are tied in with majors for distribution among other things. The problem is unless you target a niche market like we are it's nearly impossible to compete, and I can't imagine an artist pulling all that off on their own. That's not to say it CAN'T be done... but I've never seen it.
1. Offer decent quality samples or one or two(more as I made more music) full tracks, ABSOLUTELY NO "Digital Rights Management" (DRM), it has proven itself to be nothing but a worthless, overcrackable piece of shit. 2. Price the individual songs, or singles, and full CDs at low prices. - Single songs: $0.99 - $1.10 - "Singles" CD: $5 - "Full CDs": $7 - $10 3. Use a website to promote my stuff, try to get music on as many sites (pay-per, or free) as possible, including Dmusic.com, ITunes, Napster, etc. 4. If piracy helps you, truthfully show it. If piracy hurts, truthfully show it too. If they have both a negative and positive impact, hell, show that to your fans as well. Don't call them theives or robbers, or make analy incorrect analogies to compare to copyright infringement to. Don't go to making false "losses" clainms or do anything to make yourself look like a whiny baby. Show them that while you have a firm stance, it is truthful, and you can actually prove/back it up, unlike the **aa/BSA/MPAA/CRIA/ETC
If you believe in privacy, and believe you have "nothing to hide" at the same time, you're a goddammed idiot
So the best way to use the net is to direct people locally to where and when you perform. Give them discounts on tickets and cd's that they can print out then redeem at your concerts. That way there is an incentive for the individual to try you out. Hype means nothin' if you have not got a groove.
Give the music away for free, with URLs embedded in the MP3 ID3 tags etc. Sell the things you can control access to, like concert admissions, copies of CDs for people who want that (many still will), t-shirts and other merchandise. Try to license your songs to people selling other things, if you think that's cool. If you sell the songs, there's a cost to sales, and you'll wind up spending lots of other money on other promotion and marketing. With the Internet offering so much free distribution, the music itself is the most effective, cheapest promotion available. And the primary idea is to get as many people listening as possible. So help the music get to the people who want it, and your audience will be more interested in paying for the rest of the package.
--
make install -not war
If you're just starting out trying to get your band noticed and promoted, then try submitting your music to web sites such as Pure Volume or music.download.com.
Take a look at my band's site for an example of how NOT to promote your band. Create a more professional looking site, and give more information.
Get a good designer to make a great website like this guy, it piqued my curiosity and I bought his album. Turns out that he is pretty darn good.
I'm not a musician, and have almost no musical talent at all, but I know what I like to hear. That said, I think that the number one thing is:
Step 1: Be good. If you don't write good music, you stand no chance of making it big, and doing covers forever won't get you ahead for long. Dispatch was a great band that had a huge following, and it certainly wasn't because of a big-name label that they were so popular. I also know a lot of people from HS and college who were in bands, and to be quite honest, they suck. They won't make it big because of this fact, and as much as I feel bad for them, c'est la vie.
So as to bot discourage you, I also know of a lot of good bands who never made it big because they weren't really into it. They wrote great original music, they did a few covers to keep the mindless drones happy, but they moved on to other things.
Step 2: Persistence. Don't let a few critics spoil your attitude. There will be people who don't like your music, especially if you're in a genre-defining band. Develop a following and try to have them spread the word.
Sorry for going OT and not giving a real business model, but this is what I have seen as the biggest issues facing my friends' bands.
- "Nobody came out that night, not one was ever seen. But Old Man Stauf is waiting there, crazy sick and mean!"
If you are entertaining to watch live, the rest will take care of itself... it is impossible to duplicate the concert experience.
As far as I can see, ultimate solution is Micropayment.
Listen to a song for 1/4 of a cent, download it for 1 cent.
Run a program for 1/10 of a cent, buy it for 10 cents.
Have the artists/authors/whatever sell their stuff directly, they will end up with a much bigger part of the pie. Seize the long tail!
Hey, I thought they said the same thing about Ronald Reagan?! Now who's not telling the truth here?
Go here, then here, then go here. Then you decide what works for you. And that's the bottom line, it's all about what works best for you.
My friends in the band HPD have done pretty well just playing shows and getting their name out via Myspace. Unfortunately, they haven't released an album yet, because quite a few people ask to buy one after a show. I think they'd tell you that it is most important to get your name out locally by doing as many shows as possible.
It all depends on what you want to be doing. If you want to be heard on the radio 24/7/365, then you probably need to try to get with a major label and hope you don't lose your shirt in the process. If you're content with making some modest amounts of money and willing to tour a lot, then an indie label is probably your best bet.
is your band anywhere near being a financially successful venture?
if so, have you quit your day job yet?
Know what I like about atheists? I've yet to meet one that believes God is on their side.
Most seem think that the recording industry are a bunch of greedy people that stick it to the consumer as well as their own artists http://junglejar.com/ was set-up for sole purpose of providing promotion and distribution of independent electronic music. All of our artists take at least 50% of the sale price (usually more). We offer full length downloads as well as CD's for those who prefer to purchase something they can actually touch.
I just heard some sad news on CNN. Pope John Paul II was found dead in his Vatican apartment today. There weren't any more details. Even if you didn't care much for his work, there's no denying his contribution to archaic beliefs. Truly a Catholic icon.
good read:
The Problem with Music
for those who dont know him: he's a very good musician and a famous producer (nirvana etc), too.
IAAL
I'd say the best thing to do is to give away the music for free. Submit copies to the local community stations both in your area and across the country (if you can afford it). The community stations love indie artists and has been the best way for me to learn about good artists. I assure you it hasn't been through the main stream radio and record stores.
Use your website to promote the music by giving it away as non DRM files, and put them on P2P networks. Make money through concerts and T-shirts and anything else that you can think of. The music is like your business card. Merchandising will make you a profit.
If the music you have is good, the fans will find you. If it is really good, the record deals will come to you. I would not go to them. Let them come to you, then you can negotiate on your terms. Other artists I have heard have done this and gotten better deals then if they had gone to the labels to begin with. Remember labels have one agenda, making money. If you can approach them already with a fan base they would slit their own wrists to sign you.
Well this is my thoughts, practical or not.
The Pope was a great man who deserves veneration
WTF? What did he do? He just help spreading AIDS through Africa with his nightmare stories about condoms, that's all.
First off, let me say this--don't quit your day job. Don't go in this for the money. If you're truly passionate about what you do (and methinks your fans will be able to tell this), you won't be afraid of supporting your hobby rather than your hobby supporting you.
When it comes to your music, distribute, distribute, distribute--on P2P, on the Web, you name it. Radio isn't that inaccessible--one of the DJ's for a local station here plays MP3's he finds from bands just like yours and I'm sure would also accept free CD's. This is how you get your name and sound out.
But as for actually making money, you still have to sell old fashioned tangible goods.
For the album itself, put all your music into an album that's worth more than a jewel case and a burned disc--take some time with your album art and include as many extras as you can. Hardcore fans will buy your albums, and you won't have to sell many to make a profit. The average signed artist make might a buck or two of albums he sells, you could make four times that by selling for half the price without going through a label. But you have to do your own work.
T-shirts are also of fundamental importance and are a source of free advertising for your band--chances are the people who really pay attention to that T-shirt will have similar musical interests with the person wearing it.
I could be alone in this, but I'd be careful to not place your name on every trinket, knicknack, and piece of crap--you'll look like a sellout and the world does not need another keychain. But I think the cardinal rule is to not price your side business out of existence. A CD shouldn't go for more than $15 including shipping, a T-shirt shouldn't go for more than $20 including shipping. That's my pricepoint--sure, there might be others. A little bit of research in determining good prices would surely be worth it.
Congratulations on taking the step, and good luck!
"[T]he single essential element on which all discoveries will be dependent is human freedom." -- Barry Goldwater
If you want to try and succeed on the net, you have to get hits, lots of hits, more hits than you could probably get. For every million, there 100,000 that'll like your style, 50,000 that'll visit your site twice, 10,000 that'll be a fan, 1,000 that'll buy a cd.
Get hits is key, use internet as your main tool, everything else is too expensive. Find the indie radio stations, sites, genre related communities. It's your only tool but the best tool. You can get thousands of people hearing your music everyday, something you can't do very well with other methods.
Stick in the game for a long time, let your name build.
There isn't much more to it.
yes sell mp3s,cds,shirts whatever you can. If you are trying to make a living, then damn, you need more ways to make the money.
p.s. please visit my site. I'll have an album out in a month or two. http://www.pronobozo.com
------
insert sig here,here, and here
Some clever viral marketing and 'community building' and you could have yourself a huge word-of-mouth base in no time.
YOu have no idea the power of the zealous people of the internet... a lot of these fanbois will get obesessed with anything and just go nuts over it.
Build community, give it intrigue and mystery, make people feel 'cool and selected' to be a member of that community...
It will spread like wildfire!
Excuse me, I don't mean to impose, but I am the ocean
Depending on what style of music you are into there are plenty of zines where you can sell your CD's or have people do reviews.
Also again depending on your style of music you can find very large distributors that will sell your CD's for a %. Basically if they like your cd's they will buy them at a large discount, and sell them through other zines or catalogs and websites.
TruePunk | Games
Naaa...couldn't be the fault of the individual. Let's blame it on the big guy. After all...they followed his instructions to the letter. No condoms, and go screw your brains out with anyone and everyone.
Yes...it's all the Pope's fault.
Signup for Garageband
www.garageband.com
Create CD at CafePress
www.cafepress.com
CD Baby Digital Distribution (get on iTunes!)
http://www.cdbaby.net/dd
DMUSIC
www.dmusic.com
Part of what the internet gives is number of different avenues for bands to get their music out. Getting onto Napster for its subscription service could be a really good idea as it allows people to relate your music to more established bands' music. For example, people won't necessarily check out a new band but if they see this new band is similar to say Korn they're gonna be more likely to give it a whirl and with the subscription service they're not out anything. If you don't like the idea of selling people DRM music, I believe you can just distribute it on these services as a subscription album not for individual sale.
I also think something like Magnatune is a good idea in that it gives you a more direct distribution channel. One of the advantages of smaller bands is that people tend to actually buy their music instead of getting it over P2P networks of a band that's on the radio.
I think something that's been mentioned too that is important is the idea of giving out certain tracks while selling others. Live versions could be given for free while the album version could be downloaded from a service.
What's most important though is creating a buzz and fans. Getting the music out there is relatively easy, its actually finding listeners and a group of loyal fans to preach the gospel so to speak is what's hard.
I have some friends that have done this. Quite a few, several bands. They're pretty popular locally right now, but they are young enough that only one has released a full length album.
They have a decent web site up. That's the one thing that has helped most. When they just had a flash movie on a web server, it did almost nothing for them. Everyone was just going to the fan sites to get their info in a readable format. Now they have some band info, photos, bios, and free downloads of mp3s of some of the best tracks.
They make their money at shows. Merch, concessions, and admissions do them okay. They're in the green now, after a couple of professional releases (an EP and full album, both of them recorded at an actual studio, pressed professionally, etc). They play at a lot of local venues, and have gigs around the state (and in Texas, that's not a small accomplishment). And they don't want to work with a label.
As far as getting the music out on the internet, I mentioned they have a few tracks up. I don't think they intend to release full albums on the web site, but they don't mind other people doing it for them. Basically, as far as I know, if anyone asks if they can share stuff on the net they get "Sure, feel free to copy, but please encourage them to come see us and buy something if they like it."
Bottom line, you definately can get popular and profitable as an independent with no label or contract. But like any other job, it takes work. Don't expect to get automatic income just because you can make some music - any job, any business, requires actual work.
funny munging
Only way to go.
Set up a monthly subscription plan whereby people who like your music can log on and see live (and prerecorded live) streaming video (and audio) of concerts and jam sessions on a regular (weekly, whatever) basis.
All the money goes directly to you (and your bandwidth provider, of course - somebody's going to take a percentage of your earnings, and that's a fact.)
Do NOT concern yourself about "pirating" of your content - it's irrelevant to your success. It's merely "unauthorized marketing" and will do you some good.
Secondly, do major marketing. Look at The Corrs - they went to practically every country on the planet, as they say, "selling each album door-to-door, country-to-country, stage-to-stage". They feel it's only right if someone buys your music, they should have the opportunity to see you live. (And the Net allows that without the jet lag.)
And they have a cameraman following them around practically twenty four hours a day, given all the documentary footage they're released over the last ten years. They have a good Web site. They log on to their fan sites and post messages (both Sharon and Caroline Corr logged on to the Corrboard in the last couple weeks to thank fans for birthday wishes). They walk across traffic to sign autographs. Treat your fans right - they buy your music.
Richard Steven Hack - This sig is TOO GODDAMN SHORT TO DO ANYTHING USEFUL WITH! MORONS!
I once stumbled across the tunes of an imo very promising Canadian punkrock-band named "Slush" on the FastTrack Network in late 2001 or so. Ever since, I've tried to dig up information on where to buy their records. Some mate of mine googling in 2004 really popped up with the band's website, and I got in contact with the leadsinger - though he wasn't interested in earning money with their music, providing all their songs for free to me in (however poorly encoded) mp3 format... I'd definitely had paid for what they had got to offer, and I'd probably do so with your songs as well, if the content is worth it for me personally, and I'm unrestricted (e. g. no Digital Restriction(sic!) Management applied) in its usage. If it was OGG Vorbis -q6 or so, and you provided high quality CD Covers for printout and the like, I'd give it a shot, and with me some other fellow /.ers as well, I guess :)
:%s/Open Source/Free Software/g
YTARY!
You fucking faggot - make some music and get a job you asshole.
Another way to sell your music (in addition to CD Baby) is to work directly with companies like Audio Lunchbox. ALB gives 65% of sales to the artist. They also offer up your music in the non-evil MP3 and Ogg Vorbis (even less evil) formats. You can also plug your band across the internet on various indie and digital music sites. Audio Lunchbox also offers forums for just that purpose as does CD Baby and MP3.com.
I can't answer what you are asking, but for yourself and aspiring musicians, what I can tell you is that if you get a "budget" from a label to cut an album, to be careful and pay attention to how your exec from the label spends the money. One of the biggest scams is that the suits from the labels conspire with recording engineers/studios to grab as much of the budget as possible.
Very few bands who succeed in getting a budget actually get to release an album (cd), even fewer get to see that album succeed. The suits are well aware of the statistics. With the way they launder the money, there's little chance of their getting caught. I know of a case where the suit actually convinced one individual who got a budget from a label to himself become a recording engineer, and the suit and the individual used a recording studio in which the suit was an off-the-record stockholder. The musician was a complete idiot in common sense and financial matters, so he actually assisted the suit in spending the entire ($50,000, about 25 years ago) budget at that recording studio, with the engineer billing over $100 per hour for the effort but actually receiving $0 for his efforts (he had a recording contract!).
Some of the ways the entertainment cartel gets to keep the money while claiming poverty and losses and sticking it to the individual musicians are by owning all the steps to getting that cd or dvd out. They partially or totally own the company that stamps the cd/dvd, they partially or totally own the company that designs the cover, that manufactures the cd/dvd, that manufactures the case, that manufactures the marketing material, the studio where the music/movie is cut, now the download sites owned by the labels/studios, etc.
That's how you hear stories about actors promised a part of the profits of the movie instead of a wage/salary getting nothing, because the movie grossed hundreds of millions in ticket sales but still lost money. Meanwhile, everyone in the entertainment cartel food chain still managed to get paid. Whether they actually showed a profit or not at the end of the fiscal year is a different matter.
That's why if you ever have any leverage at all, for the very few (less than 1%?) who are lucky enough to be able to negotiate a payment contract, never base your payment on profit, always on revenue. And if possible (from what has been posted on slashdot and elsewhere this normally isn't possible), write into the contract that revenue will be determined on independent auditors picked by you (not by the entertainment accountants' unauditable figures, as is normally the case).
And good luck! Don't believe the entertainment cartel's bullshit. If your music is good, people will buy your cds, regardless of p2p. p2p will actually help, because people will sample your music who otherwise would never have heard it. Once they hear it and like it, they are likely to buy it. p2p doesn't include music recorded to the same quality as cd sound (nor does listening to the music on computer speakers). And for true music lovers with good ears, cd quality isn't even the best. I know someone with "golden ears" who can't believe how inferior cds are to analog albums. He tunes pianos for a living, and once tried to demonstrate the difference between a cd and an album on his high end equipment. I'm tone deaf so I couldn't really hear the difference, but others could.
I'm waiting for that first new act to realize they can make a ton more money selling $7 CDs themselves over the internet than going through a label selling them for $20 and giving up their catalog to the man. As soon as the first band is succesful making it work, the floodgates are open!
"Lawyers are for sucks."
- Doug McKenzie
There are worse. Search google for "pope" and waste the money of the fuckers already selling flags and god knows what through sponsored links.
Click'em... browse their site a bit... and then close without buying any of their tat.
You were just wainting for that opportunity to troll, weren't you? This may be the most ignorant and senseless post I've ever read here, but then again I probably shouldn't take this troll seriously.
How would Communism, even the corrupted pseudo-communism of the USSR, have fared if it wasn't under constant attack from the Corporate Reich of America (USA)? We'll never know if the problems that set in in the USSR would have happened if they hadn't had to remain constantly militarised thanks to the USA's aggression, having to devote millions of man-hours to defence because the fascist (read up on Roosevelt) USA was constantly threatening them?
We _know_ the USA worked to corrupt and undermine communism in the USSR. How much of the crap that happened in the USSR was thanks to people having to fight off the USA instead of working together on more useful stuff? (personally, I think Lysenko did most to damage the USSR, not the USA, but that's a separate rant).
Hell, the US Corpies won't let free market capitalism exist either (see their "free" trade agreements which ALWAYS extend the scope of patent applicability, by definition antithetical to free markets)
(n/t)
He might be a troll, but he's right nevertheless.
No, I'm not. I'm an Atheist, YOU sir, are the ignorant that beleives in God.
WTF am I doing replying to an AC at 5 A.M on a Friday night?
Firstly, if "making it big" is your main concern, stop now. There is no formula for this and infinite talent won't lead to it. You need a mixture of talent and lots of luck.
Anyways, my comments:
Give your music away. You will never, under any circumstances, make much money from your music and if you make most of it available for free, in high quality, available to your users, you will get a larger (hopefully) audience by the songs being freely distributed from a central spot. Keep in mind this has bandwidth costs, so maybe look to other methods but keep the music free.
You will make your money off shows and t-shirts. The more people that like you the more people that will pay to see you. Expect, if you're a good band to get 3/4 the door and 1/4 the bar. That's actually really goo so don't expect to get any of the bar.
Sell your CD's (people will buy them at a show), t-shirts, etc. Tour, tour, tour. And have patience. Use the Internet to promote yourself and obviously create a Website and post about your band on any number of fan sites.
"If you are a dreamer, a wisher, a liar, A hope-er, a pray-er, a magic bean buyer
No-one fucking cares. It was just an old guy who couldn't even have fun with all his power and money.
Besides everyone already knew. Yes, here in Finland too.
Now how many multimillionaires have been created with a label? [Oh wait, they don't exist, according to Slashdot Group Think]
Hopefully the answer of what you should do is obvious. If you don't want to get ripped off, then a good entertainment attorney and a good agent.
Sometimes it's best to just let stupid people be stupid.
please!
You should rename your complete disk or song to a lot of the most popular ones from other groups or artists and let the people think they are downloading the other artists stuff.
Then, they are going to hear you.
See http://www.freezepop.net/, they seem to be doing alright.
Getting signed to a MAJOR record label may not be the best course of action... But there are so many other independent record labels out there. Victory Records, Drive-Thru, Rushmore Records, etc. that are all honest and true to their bands. Don't generalize record labels.
END
I'm director of e-commerce for a band in out of Ann Arbor, MI called Tally Hall.
We use a five-pronged attack to establishing an online presence and it's raised our site's traffic from an avg 200/day two months ago to over 25,000/day now.
Don't want to give away all our secrets but here are a few crucial points of advice:
1) Give away mp3s free. As Microsoft gave MS-DOS away free when it initially emerged, it helps the product spread across the globe much faster than being a stickler for CD sales. A lot of bands are concerned giving free mp3s will reduce CD sales, in fact it's just the opposite. Yes, there are a minority that might not buy a CD once their mp3 is free, but it's been our experience that CD sales went through the roof as we released mp3s free and exposed the music to a wider audience.
2) If you've got a music video, see if you can get it featured on a huge site like http://www.albinoblacksheep.com/video/bananaman
3) Sign up at sites like myspace.com and acquire fans/listeners/feedback on your music free. We've earned nearly 25k fans through myspace.com alone
4) Penetrate the blogosphere. One person writes about your music and likes it, next thing you know you've got referral traffic coming from over 1,600 different blogs (or at least that's been our experience).
5) Just keep pushing. Three months ago almost no one heard of Tally Hall. Now they're scouted by some of the largest labels around. Starting as just a college band with a small fan base in Ann Arbor, our internet strategy's led us to acquire over 100k new fans in just a few months. When you first start it'll be very slow, but like a snowball pushed down a hill it will eventually grow enough momentum to soar on its own.
This is all assuming there is an audience for your music.
Best of luck.
-Michael
Many people more intelligent than you would respectfully disagree with you. While I accept that the existence of God cannot be proven, it can neither be disproven, and as such it is an extremely dogmatic view to state simply that there is no God and leave it at that.
...I'm an ardent supporter of independent music. My advice would be to seek out an indie label with good distribution and venue connections - if they can help out with CD packaging/reproduction and access to places to play, you're a few steps ahead of the game. Chances are they'll leave the marketing decisions up to your band for the most part, leaving your band in better control.
The smaller labels know that they have to form partnerships with musicians rather than act as parental figures as the large conglomerates do. If you keep each other happy and manage to make enough money to keep both you /and/ the label going, you have a decent shot of making music a career. Plus, you get to make more of your own decisions concerning direction, growth, etc.
Some respectable indie labels/resources:Secretly Canadian: Among the best indie labels with the likes of Magnolia Electric Company and Damien Jurado in their catalog
Dim MakAnother stellar label and home of Soledad Brothers and the Gossip
Better PropagandaExcellent indie music site, get your band listed here...free MP3s and discographies
Audio LunchboxSite featuring MP3/Ogg tracks for sale - and indie version of iTunes, but won't rot your soul
Kill Rock StarsLabel to Sleater-Kinney, Bikini Kill
InsoundOne of the best retailers of indie music - decent catalog
- Jack
Oh, fuck off.
He (pope) was no use for anyone anyway. He will be promptly replaced. Anyone can wear that hat.
Boo-fuck'n-hoo.
Bot Assisted Blogging
That record companies have seldom been the reason for the success or failure of a band. I'll go over a couple bands just for sample's sake. Led Zeppelin became famous early on for their relentless touring and wild antics. Eventually, this lead to a fan base. For a more modern example, Nirvana's Curt Kobain was miffed when some record promoters tried to promote his band as a bunch of lumberjacks with a backwoods vibe. Nirvana's big break came at the hands of MTV, who put Smell's Like Teen Spirit on the air and the audience ate it up.
The way to become sucessful in any consumer business is ultimately to build a fan base. You can sell a product at a reduced cost to a large fan base, or charge more and have a really loyal fanbase (because your product is just that good (e.g. Apple)), but first and foremost is making something original/good and putting it out there in an equally good/original way (unless you're not concerned about longterm sucess, but you sound like you are).
Best of luck.
-- Political fascism requires a Fuhrer.
And focus on it.
In general, artists make money off of concerts. If you start out assuming that all your money will come from concerts, you can afford to have all your music online for free. Just make certain that the music you put online if not in some index directory, listed like:
Instead, list the songs in a way that will associate them with the concerts and make people want to come to the concerts. For example:
And, make sure you always play them at the event before letting people download them, but mention that you've got another song ready and will be playing it soon. Something of a teaser.
Also, since your webpage is most of your publication method, make it a place people want to check on regularly. Give all the band-members blogs on that site and make sure you keep news up-to-date. Keep an easy listing of where you'll be playing.
Also, make sure the site lets the fans participate. It could work to let them upload recordings of live shows, along with comments, so that they can keep talking about your show on your site even long after it's over.
And don't stop with just a little bit of stuff. Keep the site fresh, but don't let it change radically. Shift things bit by bit so that people gon't get too bored with it, but keep what exists in the same place so its easy to find.
Please spell "loser" "loser" in future. Unless you meant to write "you looser", which I suppose would mean "you [are] someone who looses" i.e. someone who sets things free (as opposed to loses).
loose is a different word to lose. They are pronounced AND spelled differently. I just don't understand how people mix them up. It's not like "their" and "there" and "they're", it's more like "goose" and "goes" or "mooses" and "moses".
Among all of the talk about RIAA and Copyright laws is the bog question: So, what's a band supposed to do then to put food on the table if they can't charge for CDs?
Its pretty much agreed that recording companies abuse artists and consumers alike, but what is the alternative. The biggest suggestion so far is live performance. Being a big fan of seeing bands live, I could imagine this working.
My question is this: Are there any good examples of moderately successful bands and the economics of what they (not the record company) are making of CDs vs Shows vs Merchandise etc. I guess the question is, Can a band live of Concert ticket sales?
Spencer Ogden
A friend and I set up a web site for my wife's music and did some basic advertising with SingingFish. Her top download song last month had 13,336 downloads (lo res mp3's), second place 2,450 plus the samples. We've started getting several inquiries a week about the due date of her next CD. And we're not even pushing it that hard. This was spending less than a hundred bucks on advertising.
I'm not at all certain you'd be able to make a huge amount of money just on the internet, but we're satisfied enoough with the initial results to spend some money on taking it to the next level.
The way record labels calculate expenses on a CD, most artists don't make squat on CD sales. Getting a CD professionally produced, if you do the mastering yourself, isn't that expensive. The break-even sales figures are fairly modest and I do think we can turn a reasonable profit if we hold expenses down.
Getting back to your original comment...if you have some business sense and access to the creative talent, I don't think it's at all foolish to be skeptical of signing with a record label. The more you're able to demonstrate success without them, it would seem at a minimum one could negotiate a better deal. And at some near-future point in time record labels will no longer be necessary.
That's our life, the big wheel of shit. - The Fat Man, Blue Tango Salvage
You may rant and rave and rage against the emptyness in your heart and soul, but that doesn't make God any less real than He is.
God is real and lives through the testimonials, martyrdom and everyday good life of everyday Christians all around the world. I know in my heart that one day you will join us.
Check out They Might Be Downloads. Their prices compete with iTMS, but you get high-quality, LAME-encoded MP3s without any DRM. You can also pay a little extra to get FLAC rips of selected albums.
Give away some songs for free (maybe enter Songfight! once in a while and link to it), but just let people know that the songs are for sale and that they're DRM-free for the customer's convenience, and that you trust them. Charge a reasonable price and make the site easy to use and you'll get customers.
The US Army: promoting democracy through unquestioned obedience
Or alternatively we could all just read Noam Chomsky's "Hegemony or Survival" ourselves.
Let's not kid ourselves here. Much as I hate corporate America, Stalin is vastly responsible for the buildup of weapons in the USSR post war, and indeed the regime was simply a dictatorship as fascist as any other.
The problem is that people (the U.S.) ascribe the fascism as being the result of communism in an attempt to victimise left-wing ideas...
You stupid vampire cultist. Your bloody lord isn't any more real than Zeus or Lir or Odin.
Mod parent funny! Fucking hilarious!
i personally like how electronic music seems to work. most everythig is available for free download from artist sites, and if you want a hard copy, by the vynil.
She has recently designed a new royalty structure for her newest artist. Generally speaking, the label recoups its support costs before the band sees a dime. This is still true in the new system. The difference comes in the way net profits are paid out. Its a more equitable split than it used to be.
With that said, I think there are two truisms that persist in the music industry. 1. You make money as an artist by playing live shows, and 2. Signing with a label allows you to leverage the economies of scale.
There's simply no way a single band can afford to advertise effectively. The labels actually split a lot of advertising costs with their distributors (one of the dirty little secrets), so for every dollar the label spends on advertising, it's actually leveraged to $2 spent in the market. A band on its on can't reap this kind of benefit.
The trick in the end for the artists is that
Among them are:
10 PRINT CHR$(205.5+RND(1)); : GOTO 10
There are a number of places that will host and link to indie artists. For instance, I am a Christian Industrial (loosely using that definition - I use Industrial stylings, but I don't limit myself to the genre) recording artist, so I am linked to by various sites conducive bringing fans of the style to me.
Another great way to get exposure is to participate in indie compilation CDs - there are a number of groups out there that compile CDs with the hit songs by numerous indie artists. Just make good use of google for this one, or wait for them to contact you (I've gotten asked to be on 4 or 5 from online references, and numerous ones in person).
The best suggestion I have is the most straight-forward - make a website, put up some songs, and put up fliers. You can improvise a bit on this idea - One thing I do is I pass around an album every year with the latest songs I've recorded, some previously unreleased ones, and the big hits. I put the title (exposed.2004 was the most recent), the band name, and the URL to the website for info on the album. Make sure you provide more music to download from the site other than what is on the comp CD.
Just a few simple suggestions. Good luck.
"Better to be vulgar than non-existent" -Bev Henson
>>responsible for more deaths and other atrocitys than any other
That is a load of bovine excrement. you are apparently one of those primitive christophobes, and a buffoon.
Regardless of my opinion of the Pope, Catholicism, and Boy-Buggering Papists in general..
More people have been killed/tortured in the name of the secular state/communism/fascism/godless humanism in the first half of the last century than by any other entity in the history of man.
"the 20th Century state has proved itself the great killer of all time." --Historian Paul Johnson
Stalin, over 40 million (purges, forced de-kulakification, de-cossacifiation, forced labour camps, re-education camps, etc). Mass deportations for the various baltic states and other soviet satellites to the Soviet Gulag archipelago, and let us not forget the many cut down crossing the Berlin wall or any other point on the Iron Curtain,
Mao Tse Tung's Cultural Revolution, estimated at 72 million plus,
Pol Pot's Cambodia, 3 million plus (close to one out of three people)
The there is the perennial favorite, Nazi Germany (6 million plus), the Japanese Rape of Nanking (300,000), North Korea, Vietnam, The Armenian genocide in Turkey (1.5 Million), the communist rampages through post WWII albania/yugoslavia.
Many knowledgeable people see the world as evidence for God or gods.
The problem of evil in the world is a problem, but it can be rectified by the realization that there can be no free will (as, for instance, The Bible asserts that we have) without the opportunity to make choices, and choices that are meaningful have consequences - not always good.
For the record, I agree with you about the God thing, but you don't have to be such a dick about it.
m ... geez, i don't understand how people can mix up words written in a brain-dead language that is only spoken in a few places over this world ... may be there are actually people living outside the US?. I heard once about them on the CNN. A magic race of people that are not US Citizens, how weird!.
WTF am I doing replying to an AC at 5 A.M on a Friday night?
What's wrong with screwing your brains out? Because the bible says not to?
That isn't a very convincing argument in my book.
Your ignorance is infinitely greater than you realize.
You're actually using the non-falsifiability of a god as an argument FOR a god???
Okay, do you realise just how plain dumb that is? go learn about the scientific method and logical fallacies, please.
You're guzzling my cum! Right out of my cock!
Boy oh boy!
Doesn't THAT taste good, you silly little fuck?
Sure, if you're the next Brittney Spears or The Beatles you can get a really good deal once you're famous. But honestly, what are the chances of any given group being really hugely famous?
Keep in mind that as an independant you won't have the massive marketing engine of the Labels, but once you've got something to sell you can make a much higher profit margin off of any given sale.
You can't stop people from sharing music they download from you, but people can share your music just as much if you sell CDs. CDs are cheap, downloads are cheaper. Set reasonable prices, get your material out there, and if it's good people will come and get it.
Nothing Dead Here.
I am not arguing for the existence of God. I choose to believe in God, but what I am arguing is that it is impossible to disprove the existence of God, and so asserting that there is no God is just as dogmatic as my assertion that there is.
In Seattle, Static Factory and Wax Orchard are two companies that offer media and recording services for aspiring artists.
I am head of a record label and distribution company. It's amazing how misinformed everyone is. A typical contract is for artists to get only 6% of the record sales. So of course everyone is going to say "Artists are SCREWED!!!"
In the music business it is arranged that artists make money off of PERFORMANCE and ROYALTIES. Labels make money off of record sales. Artists NEVER have been able to make an album and just sit on their couches and ride off of record sales. It wouldn't happen. The best way to sell records is to have shows. And since artists make most of their money from tours and radio play it's in their best interest to tour and play gigs to promote the album because that's how they make money.
Now why does the label need this money? Well, when an artist is pulling in a few million dollars in royalties from radio play which a label doesn't get even $0.01 from ($0.13 per play on the radio * number of times the song plays an hour * number of average radio stations in a city * numbers of cities in an average country * number of countries in the world = LOTS OF MONEY) and pulling in hundres of thousands from the tour, the label needs the money from CD sales to recoup their investment to do a music video that cost about $3 million (on average), advertising & marketing ($500,000 at least), and recording/mastering of the album ($500,000 (producer might not be included in that cost)).
So to get back to the real question. How can a band be successful on the internet? YOU CAN'T. It's a LIE! A band will make money as they build fan base and do shows all over the nation and sell your merchandise, dvds, albums at the shows. It's a tried and true method. I didn't like greenday until I saw them in concert. From that point on I have bought all their albums. Sure, the artist doesn't benifit directly from album sales, but the more albums they sell the more the label will invest back into the band to help them produce more albums and do more shows for their fans which also gets them more radio play because people are calling in for them on request lines.
I hope this clears it up, somewhat. The relationship between artists and labels is a good one. Artists get greedy when they're famous and think, "I don't need this label taking all my money from record sales any more." But they wouldn't have been "famous" if it weren't for the millions the label invested into them to create the "hype" and "demand" to seporate them from all the other billions of artists out there.
Also artists think, "The label is trying to control me and my music". This is such BS. The label signs an artist because they are talented and feel they could pull it off. Some labels hire producers which step over their bounds and tell the artist exactly how things should be on the album. That's not a typical situation. A typical situation is the artist gets a producer which will insure that it stays to the 'true vision' of the album. Artists have the tendancy to loose sight of the whole album and get stuck on minor elements of a particular song. If it weren't for the producers the albums would be a mess and nobody would buy it because it would "suck" and the band wouldn't be able to play the big shows because they wouldn't have any fans. So sure, producers sometimes overstep their bounds, but bands need to have faith in the producer for them to follow the system so that they can make their millions from royalties and play shows all over the world. Because that's why an artist gets into the music business in the first place right? TO play infront of millions all over the world and have a lot of fans....
Playing at bars and clubs is one of the first things you need to do. Few people will go out of their way to download music from someone they've never heard of. Now, the next trick is, you've got to convert the people who came to your show but have never heard of you before into fans. Here's my idea on an approach that might work.
After the show, have the band members at various exits handing out cards/flyers/whatever. The cards should each have a unique ID number on it, and a URL for the band's web page. Allow people to download some number (say 3) songs from the band's webpage for free with that ID number. Any 3 they want - make sure the whole catalog of songs you have available online is eligible. Make the rest of the mp3s (or oggs, or whatever) are reasonably priced, say $0.50 - $1.00.
This does a few things for you. First off, people won't forget about you after the show. If you're just starting out, you're probably not the main attraction at the show, so you can't count on people buying any merchandise you have for sale at the show. If they don't take something with your name on it home with them, they'll forget about you.
And by giving them a few mp3s of your songs for free, they'll likely keep listening to you. Next time they see your name attached to a show, they'll probably go to it. Maybe they'll buy that t-shirt they thought was really cool, or decide to pick up a CD. They'll play the mp3s for their friends, and bring them along when they come to the show. Before long, you'll have a following, and you'll be getting more and more gigs. Once this has happened, you can look into joining with a label, but you'll be in a better position to negotiate your own terms, since you've already done a lot of the start up work yourself.
Small bands make more money from shows and merchandise (t-shirts, etc) than selling CDs.
Do not sign with a big label, there is a lot of small label that will give you a better deal, and if you use the web very well, the fact that a small label does not have the same power than the big one to prommote you will be a moot point.
One thing you should try, record all the shows and make the recording avaible, if possible right on the spot on a freshly burned CD.
If you believe in privacy, and believe you have "nothing to hide" at the same time, you're a goddammed idiot
I have my own company making CD based software titles. You would be surprised how easy it is to create a CD or DVD and send it off for printing. It is also cheap. You could identify a target audience and advertise directly to them. This is a cheap way to het an income started. You could get people like myself (I am an animator who used to work for some very identifyable studios, and I have always wanted to create a killer music video) to help with a video. If you contact iTunes and other stores you can get onto their "Long Tail". There may not be a net based MTV lookalike yet, but one day online video streaming will catch on and one of the big costs is content. If bands like you offer free use of videos then online MTV type shows will find it easier to startup, and you get some great "airtime". Then one last tip is to try to get on the charts in a small market. Many countries are great, but for one example, UB40 made it in New Zealand with its first single, before leveraging that success to promote themselves in the UK.
Stalin, over 40 million (purges, forced de-kulakification, de-cossacifiation, forced labour camps, re-education camps, etc). Mass deportations for the various baltic states and other soviet satellites to the Soviet Gulag archipelago, and let us not forget the many cut down crossing the Berlin wall or any other point on the Iron Curtain,
Mao Tse Tung's Cultural Revolution, estimated at 72 million plus,
Pol Pot's Cambodia, 3 million plus (close to one out of three people)
The there is the perennial favorite, Nazi Germany (6 million plus), the Japanese Rape of Nanking (300,000), North Korea, Vietnam, The Armenian genocide in Turkey (1.5 Million), the communist rampages through post WWII albania/yugoslavia.
I don't have any opinion about the Pope, but I am surprised you have had to use examples of known villians to defend the pope.
I don't see where Bible says explicitly that we have a free will.
Even for well-established artists, they frequently make more money touring and doing live shows than off selling recorded music. Use the Internet for promotional purposes. Keep a mailing list of your fans, and send them information and maybe give them access to some sneak previews of your music online. Make sure you have the registered publishing rights to your music, and look for ancillary streams of revenue.
No, not because the bible tells you not to. Because a) it does create children, and b) today it carries a significant risk (in some areas) of serious/fatal disease.
2 very, very serious consequences. Are you willing to take those risks and live with (or die with) the results for an afternoon of fun?
If you believe in privacy, and believe you have "nothing to hide" at the same time, you're a goddammed idiot
That said, I do agree with you and think that there will be a general trend toward live performance. As usual, China is a model: musicians there don't make shit from their CDs - they're instantly pirated. They make their living from constant grueling tour schedules.
That's fine when you're in your 20s and you want to "rock", but it really sucks for people who are older or have family obligations.
I think he crux of the matter is one of raising consciousness among consumers.
Sure: go and trade your mp3s on P2P, but: if there is something you like and you listen to it more than a few times, GET OFF YOUR ASS AND BUY IT, YOU CHEAP ASS MOTHER FUCKER.
And if you can buy it directly from the musician(s), all the better. Go for it. By doing so you support the people who made the stuff and deserve your money. They have to pay rent too.
RS
Shoes for Industry. Shoes for the Dead.
One option to get your name out is to contribute some tracks to MyVirtualBand.com. Musicians from around the world put songs together simply by recording an MP3 track and combining it with MP3 tracks recorded by others. It's just getting started, but already they have made three podcasts (downloadable radio shows) containing increasingly better songs.
Frankie, Re-read my post. I did not defend the Pope. I have my own critisms of the Pope, boy-buggering papists and all the stuff.... I was responding to the christophobes assertion that the Pope, and by extension catholicism in general, were responsible for killing more people that 'any business, country, entity, etc' in history. His assertion was demonstrably untrue. If you want to criticism the Papacy, there are plenty of facts to use out there (failure to root out and prosecute pederasts, equating condom use with the 'Sin of Onan' and numerous other theological and policy points, for example). One need not lie or bluster to do so.
Yes, he is a troll, and no, he is not right.
My uncle was part of an Air Force contingent that flew Vatican-approved birth control devices to Catholic nuns in a war-torn part of Africa. The nuns refused to leave because of their dedication to the people they served there. Yet constant rapes from the militant fighting groups in the region were getting some of the nuns pregnant. So the USAF, with the approval of the Vatican, flew missions to deliver contraceptives to them.
Second, the only contraceptive device that can be used to counteract AIDS is the condom. But in most parts of Africa, using condoms is not socially acceptable due to old pagan customs. Most African men will not wear condoms, and prefer "dry" sex, so most women will swab the moisture out of the their vaginas before having sex. This makes bleeding much more prevalent, increasing the risk of AIDS transmission even more. So the Catholic stance on condom use in Africa has absolutely no bearing on the state of AIDS there.
Anybody who tells you that the Catholic Church is even remotely responsible for the state of AIDS in Africa is full of shit.
I reread your post & the post you were replying to. You are right - sorry about that.
No it's not. Read about "burden of proof" and "null hypothesis" some time.
It's so fun when US Citizens talk about mass murder. They are the biggest killers ever, but seems to allways remember masacrees done by others. Oh, i forgot, they masacrees are "Crusades for world peace", like their sponsorhip of the dictatorships in Latin America, The masacree Nicaragua, or the was of Iraq.
WTF am I doing replying to an AC at 5 A.M on a Friday night?
thankfully, electronica artists/labels, generally tending to be less moronic than the major ones, have a tendency to distribute their music in non-DRM form .. meaning I and others feel we can buy it online anyway, no need to get off your asses :-)
You are again trying to apply a scientific construct to something outside of its domain. Science intentionally restricts what it can know, and the idea of the supernatural or of God is outside this limited scope, and as such applying scientific principles to it is meaningless.
schizophrenia.
WTF am I doing replying to an AC at 5 A.M on a Friday night?
http://www.boingboing.net/2005/03/15/xeni_on_npr_
Oh, and it just so happens that my own site has a bit about Beatallica, including an interview from just before this all happened...
http://pigpog.com/wiki/index.php/Beatallica
PigPog.
The recording industry ARE a bunch of greedy bastards that are just in it for the money, so any place they can squeeze out a few more bucks, they'll do it. And they know the power of Intellectual Property © ® and all the fists full of money that can generate, so they do everything they can to extend and expand copyright, so they can retain monopoly rights on something they paid someone to create but somehow they own.
But the real question is how can you make it. Well, to make it on-line as a musician, this is what I would do:
Make it easy for interested fans to find you, refer you to their friends, buy stuff from you. Make your website easy to find and accessible. If you're not so good with visual media or website design, you probably know of a geek or a family member who is good at that, you could have them make a site for you (Payment would be between you and them). Once you're big enough, see if you can setup some tour dates. Sell CDs there, give out business cards with your website URL on them. Give away CDs with a few singles on them. You can even have an introduction on the CDs and DVDs and direct them back to your website, especially on any CDs you give away. Put a data track on audio CDs and DVDs that has some promo material or music files for your band and a link to your website. Remember everything can be used to promote yourself/your band, so make sure you've got it there where you can. But don't be obnoxious about it. People understand self-promo
... And so it comes to this.
... It's a way for the fans to reach you, and for interested parties to find your music... But you won't be found if no one knows who you are. The only reason left to sign up with a label is their publicity machine; they would potentially get your videos on MTV, advertise in Spin and get your songs on TV and movie soundtracks (of course it's more than likely they'd just sit on your contract and do nothing, but that's another issue.)
So if you're going at it alone, you have to do more than put your music on P2P and your web site.
You have to TOUR, extensively and relentlessly. Get a good booking agent to find the prime clubs and team you up with bigger names. Hit the big cities as often as you can, particularly L.A. and New York. Make a lot of friends, because people listen to indie bands because they're "cool guys" as often as they like their music.
You're also in charge of your own merchandise, and I would tell you to go all-out to make it good. Don't just have your little brother who thinks he knows Illustrator make your shirt-- get a well-known underground artist, cartoonist or designer if you can, even if you have to pay for it. T-shirts are billboards, and if yours gathers attention just for being cool to wear people will seek out your band. Don't skimp on the CD design, either-- instead of duping your own and printing the label on the inkjet, have the label screened and the insert printed professionally (and again, designed by a pro.) It WILL pay off.
Consider doing a funny cover song or two. Not only will it get noticed on the P2P networks (by people searching for the real thing, of course), but it's a crowd pleaser that will draw people in to the rest of your music. Find a cheesy 80's or 90's song and make it good. This isn't for everybody, but when it works it works well. Along the same lines, it's kind of cheesy but consider having a "look" beyond jeans and a t-shirt. If you can, hook up with an aspiring fashion designer.
Image counts for a lot, and some sort of costume or theme goes a long way towards creating a memorable show. Make it look like you put a lot more money into it than you really did...
Finally, consider hooking up with artists in other mediums. Get your music into an indie film if you can, or a cool Flash cartoon.
On second thought, just sit in your basement and put your songs on KaZaa. I don't need the competition.
I'm a fan of rock and roll, and have a huge mp3 collection. Most of them are from legit sources. However, I am completely fed up with the RIAA and haven't purchased a new (and only a few used ones) CD in years.
Except... I have a handful of favorite indy bands. I go to their shows, try to tell local bars about them, buy tshirts and CDs and tell my friends.
I'll play their music for friends, and I'll give them a few mp3s, under the condition that they must buy the CD if they like them enough to keep (and explain why). If possible, I give them the mp3 that are available at the band's website.
Most of the bands have a few free mp3s available, and one offers a (poorly) recorded show for $3. They are very clear that it isn't a great recording, so they only charge $3 via PayPal.
What does it take me to keep visiting? Wanting to see some of my favorite bands continue playing. As for getting rich... I don't think they are counting on it. As far as I know, they have day jobs. One of them is a Slashdot reader (which is how I found the band Black Monday).
And if you like rock and roll (in the Social Distortion, Johnny Cash, Cramps sort of way) take a listen here:
http://lotd.com/ Luck of the Draw
http://www.blackmonday.info/ Black Monday
http://www.deadbillys.com/Deadbillys
http://www.speedbuggycowpunk.com/Speedbuggy
1. Record music.
2. Put on information superhighway.
3. Profit!
Um. English is the most widely spoken language in the world (mostly as a second language / lingua-franca) - chinese is spoken most as a first language, but it's pretty much geographically confined to china. English is "spoken in a few places over this world" for values of "few" equal to "almost all"!
And I've only ever seen american-english-as-a-first-language speaking americans mix up loose and lose before, strangely enough (I'm in the UK). If you're really not american, you're the first! Wow.
I put it down to inexplicably poor educational standards in the USA (I confirmed that most americans do pronounce loose and lose differently, so it's just that they can't spell to save their lives, and, as spelling is a trivial subject, that means americans aren't getting a proper trivial education (so much so that they probably think "trivial" means "simple" instead of "basic stuff that all citizens should know"))
If your music is any good, you can sell at prices that are a tenth what online and main-street music sellers charge. And even with rampant piracy, if the fans buy direct from you, you're bound to do better than if some thieving back-stabbing record company is taking 99% of the store price.
The only function those guys have is marketting.
So - the question for you is: How do you get known without a full-scale commercial marketting engine behind you?
I'd suggest doing cheap/free live concerts - giving away demo disks - providing freely and legally downloadable demo tracks. Make sure your web site address is visible on everything that's published about you....heck name your band "Double-You, Double-You, Double-You, My Band Dot Com" so that nobody can even mention you without giving the URL!
Try to get yourself known by any means possible - get creative.
If people will actually come to your web site, you can make money selling MP3's for a dollar for an entire album - let alone a dollar a track. Having become enough interested in your music to actually go to the trouble of visiting your website - who wouldn't spend a dollar to get an entire album if you make it easy enough? How about $10 for every piece of music you've ever recorded?
100% of 10,000 $1 online sales every bit as good as 1% of 100,000 $10 CD's.
Actually, BETTER because you'll be in touch with your fans and be able to make your own artistic decisions without big brother telling you what to do.
www.sjbaker.org
... what I've done is this. Sorry for the shameless plug :-)
My weblog in spanish
"indy" bands are everywhere already! they are the local bands that play for your county fairs, street dances, bars, many already have private albums for sale at their concerts. All they have to do from there is turn their music into mp3/mp4 whatever they want heck they can even DRM it if they want its not difficult. What is harder is marketing to hit the so called "big time" bands hire agents who try to arrange their performances to be seen by somebody in the labels. That last step is the step they really may not need thanks to the internet. If they or their agent start marketing their music on web sites word could possibly spread. It would be slower than labels can spread the word ya because labels cram it down our throats - we as the listener really have absolutely no choice in the matter unless we just don't turn our radios on. BUT their chance of success could be much higher on their own this way.
So in a nutshell do what they already do but add internet marketing. If the "indy" label download sites such as mp3tunes.com, audiolunchbox and others do some real advertising to draw people then those methods could add greatly to their success rate.
My band, Suspicious Fifth, does it all ourselves.
On http://www.suspiciousfifth.com, we've released our second record independently, under the inde lable "Independent Records" (http://www.inderec.com). They provide the SoundScan barcode, list us in the database, and even link to our online storefront.
We have a ProTools rig in our basement, I did all the artwork, and we gig to pay the manufacturing bills - http://www.digitalsunspot.com does a great job printing and pressing. They did our first record.
If you looked and heard the record, you would't be able to tell it's an independent release. We've sold hundreds of CDs online (from our site) and are looking to hit the 1000's mark soon.
But you know, honestly, the hard part is not making your record available via the web, it's finding the kind of money a record company would front to market it. I don't care how creative your great your disc is, if you don't push it in people's faces - they will never hear it.
Nate
Lead Vocals
Suspicious Fifth
http://www.suspiciousfifth.com
1. The most important part is to hire a *good* web designer who can design a web site that does a good job promoting the band and not the designer. Too many bands have web sites that do more to promote the designer's ability to do inane things with flash and not the band.
2. If you're going to give your music away, just put it on your web site. Don't waste time with P2P stuff - the only people who use P2P for music are pirates and stoners swapping Phish shows. If you want to sell music online, just use iTunes - setting up your own system won't likely be worth the bother.
The Manual or
How to Have a Number One the Easy Way
by Bill Drumond and Joe Cauty describes how to have a number one hit in the UK and keep all of the profits from sales.
It works, they have done it three separate times with differently named bands.
Beg Borrow or Steal this Book - It will entertain, inspire and inform you.
It is pre internet P2P but it tells you how to get records on shelves.
If you sign with a label you may have fame but you will end up in debt after your first album.
Print your own records, fans will fetishize your commodities, the less made the better for rarity and collectibility.
Don't feer piracy embrace it. Embrace anyone listenening to your music, the wider your fanbase the bigger a platform you will have to launch each and every product you make. Right now this P2P is big fashion. If you don't want to give up your copyrite have a secret friend share it.
Get a website with downloads and get mentioned on slashdot.
Use bittorrent so your servers don't fall over under the avalaunch of geeks. Submit your torrents to loads of trackers.
Have your secret friend share your music on all P2p networks GNUTELLA, etc.
Get it on Itunes with CDbaby.
Forget sales, build your fanbase.. Sell later
Have your promo pack on the site. Only one of my Clients does, but that gives them an advantage over the competition. Make sure the promoters know who you are, what you play, and what you need on stage for plugs and boards.
And photos! Fans love em. Promoters need em. Find yourself a good PHP type package like yappa-ng and smile for the birdie!
My $0.05 about music online: consider it your radio play. Release a few "singles" to your website (and wherever else you can) and don't skimp on the quality. The promoters are listing to a dozen MP3s a day and if yours doesn't stand out, then you won't be on stage.
-AD
Shameless link to my own template
No, the inapplicability of scientific principles to them makes gods meaningless! Science is a process of knowing. The limits of science are the limits of the physical universe. If something can influence the physical universe, it most be part of the universe (by definition of universe). God either exists (existence== being part of the universe) and is therefore amenable to scientific study, or is not amenable to scientific study, and therefore does not exist in any meaningful sense (except as a construct in the minds of humans. Man made gods).
Science may destroy the mysteries of life (right down to establishing that oxytocin hormone release in response to certain stimuli is "falling in love", and other such stuff), but it is the ONLY method that has yielded results. If everyone listened to priests, we'd all still be living in caves.
1)Dump the concept of the album.
2)Songs are released over time as they are conceived and recorded.
3)Music on the website is free, however copyrighted and owned by the band.
4)You can order a custom compilation on DVD or CD for $5 plus shipping.
5)Band's main revenue stream is from performing their music, and merchandise at the venue and on the website. Tickets cost $50-$200, depending on the artist.
Remeber that music is a performance art. Most of what you pay for and not ironically the biggest whiners about downloading, are the distributors/middlemen in the music business.
With this model, the artist end up making more money, and creativity is rewarded by direct market forces.
I would suggest making available lower qualityh mp3s for free on your site, people will be able to hear the music and you won't be wasting the money spent on high quality studio production. People will hear the music and if they like it then buy a cd or high quality music file.
411 Y0UR 8453 4R3 8310NG 70 U5!! -NSA
God, by definition, is not limited by definition. Science can speak to the entire physical universe if it so desires, but upon finding no evidence for God within the universe, it is so bound, and can go no further. Just because you say that God cannot affect the universe if he/she is beyond it does not make it so. Understanding is and always will be incomplete, and without complete understanding it is impossible to say for certain whether or not the universe itself is immutable.
As far as your illustration of science establishing the biological basis for "falling in love" it has not and cannot address the deeper issue of what is "love". It can only test things that are measurable, and love itself, being intangible is beyond the scope of science.
What would you, the Slashdot community, do to make it big on your own using the Internet?
Well, first of all, I'd be realistic and realize that out of the tens of thousands of bands, only a handful "make it big." And by make it big, I mean make any real money. A first hit record usually won't make you much more money than a mediocre full-time job. There are a few bands and artists that have a series of hit albums and they start to make real money off of those albums, but they make the really big money off of shows.
But be realistic and assume you're not going to be one of the really big bands. If that's the case, you can expect to make a moderate living, assuming you're really good and popular locally, playing gigs. You can release your music for free on the internet in the hopes that it creates more demands for your gigs.
But here's the thing about the record industry. They invest a good deal of money in trying to make the huge bands/artists. They make a killing off of those people and some of those people make a killing as well. They make excellent money off of the one hit bands/artists as well, but those people usually don't make very good money. The smart ones in the latter group can sometimes parley it into acting jobs, bigger tours, or some other music-related business that makes them a pretty decent living. But in general, the people getting rich are the labels and that handful of artists.
Check out the movie "DIY Or Die: How To Survive As An Independent Artist"
I found this great guide through Eric McFadden's website, a very deserving, highly accomplished independant artist who is also featured in the film.
Don't Suck
This issue is a bit more complicated than you think.
Give your paying fans a digitally signed certificate that they can show off on their websites or anywhere else.
Also, make top-lists, where one can vote with money. All the money goes to the author, but his ranking depends on the money that s/he hasn't touched. This solves self-voting (makes it cost money) and gives a profit opportunity to the top-list maintainer: interest-free credit.
I was in a local band eons ago - called "Acid Toad Secretion", named after an incident when a teen licked a toad to get high and went into convulsions - and I personally did much of the booking and advertising. The reality is, whether your a recognisable band or not, club owners and journalists will not seek you out. There's enough demos and promo kits falling on their laps to keep them busy till the next millenium. Bands (ATS included) need to pound the pavement and make the cold calls for interviews and gigs. Networking with similar bands and share billings is also important. Make friends. Lot's of them. I found at least 50% of my time was spent on the promotional/networking aspect of being in a band, another (extremely annoying) 20% was spent on technical issues like soundchecks, soundmen, equipment... the remaining was the good stuff: actually jamming, rehearsing and making music.
It wasn't easy for us, but after a few years of hard work and patience we had our own following who supported us and dug our music. If the music is good, people will eventually hear about you. Posters and other schwag (no matter how polished and professional it looks) won't go very far nowadays. Word of mouth is the best form of advertisment, the rest will have to be done by lot's of gigging (which will make you better and tighter) and making those phone calls to any entertainment publication that will listen. Create a positive "buzz" where you live, and keep booking those shows. Don't ever let people forget about you. You'll find your band's rep is bigger and better than you actually are!
SEO Copywriter. Just Say ON
Recordings have nothing to do with the artist. They are just recorded memories of past performances. There is absolutely no reason for paying the artist for them. Artists should be paid for performing.
Give concerts! Play music! Work for your money!
Giving away recorded music will boost your popularity and thus your ticket sales.
I started off doing some web design for my then-roommate's band. They were a metal band that would NEVER get radio play and were feeling successful having put out a CD on a bedroom label in Philadelphia. They put some of their songs on mp3.com and then proceeded to get downloaded A LOT. This got them attention and and signed to an actual underground label. The CD that they released there sold very well for the genre and got good press.
This momentum and a name change got them signed by a major label and they were then able to quit their day jobs. They have since sold more music and payed to more people than they ever imagined possible.
My take way from this is that the label does matter, as it got them support and connections that they wouldn't have had otherwise. Even in the age of basically free distribution, you need to get noticed to get heard (if you want to get past a certain level of audience size). There is so much content available that it really does help to have someone/something big point to your music and say that it is good.
Okay, you're just an idiot. If you grant the existence of things that are unknowably intangible, you can "prove" anything you want. See the plethora of fundamentally conflicting religions that exist (itself an obvious argument for the incorrectness of almost all of them...).
Personally, even if you're going to believe in a religion on faith, I just don't understand how someone can believe in, say, christianity, at least where I am: my own country's native religion is from an older-than-christianity mythology and therefore has gods that historically older than Jehovah, and there is nothing, nothing at all, that makes our beloved mother goddess and celtic pantheon less valid than the christian's vampire lord. Indeed a whole lot of "roman catholic" wierdness is to make christianity more palatable to northern europeans used to a goddess and subordinate gods (which the roman catholic christians mapped to Mary and the Saints).
(ii)
Love is a human emotion. Humans are biological machines (that empirically cease to function if you, say, microwave their brains. Considering anything to persist after the machine has destroyed is just more wishful thinking on the part of humans unable to face up to the harsh truth of eternal death). ALL love is is a complicated biological process.
You probably think you have a soul and that your mind is independent from your brain too...
Geez. There's no point arguing with you, because you're not rational.
What I want ? A great, fully personalized service that allows me to supereasily find the music I like from a humongous collection, and let me download anything, and as much as I want. I'd pay a yearly subscription of $100 for that.
500M people subscribing to such a service would mean a revenue of 50B. That's enough to pay a million artists a $50K yearly income each.
</utopia>
Flourescent (adj): smelling like ground wheat.
I am not trying to prove anything, only to point out that you cannot disprove it either.
As far as Christianity and Roman Catholicism - just as a I choose to believe in God instead of choosing to not believe in God, I choose to believe in The God of Christianity and in Jesus for reasons that aren't scientifically attribuatable, but for personal reasons. My inner experiences, you might say.
The assertion that humans are nothing more than biological machines, which is understandable, given your paradigm, is a loaded assumption. The problem with this argument is that you are saying that if science cannot prove it it doesn't exist, and I am saying that if science cannot disprove it science can not claim that it does not exist. If you were to talk with Isaac Newton and try to describe to him, for instance, string theory, he would likely believe you were proposing a new religion (not that all living scientists would disagree with him). The point being that scientific knowledge is and always will be incomplete. With incomplete knowledge comes and inability to speak with certainty. If you choose to believe there is no God, that is your choice, and supportable by all of the available (lack of) evidence one way or the other, but if I choose to believe there is a God, that same (lack of) evidence one way or the other supports my belief.
Must include whatever is necessary (most likely some free downloadable songs) that will let me figure out if I like the band or not. Should include schedule of all upcoming gigs.
Assuming you've already given some free samples (so that I've heard the band and know I like them) then the answer isAfter that claim I'd love to hear more about your standard contract terms. Specifically, do you pay musicians royalties in actual money, or withhold until you have recovered your entire investment?
Could you please back up your claim that:
"just about all bands make negative money from their first contract. This is important, if you sign with a label, you will end up in debt".
I've heard this claim many times before, but I can't find any information to back it up. Maybe you can, since you seem so confident about it's veracity. I think it might just be an urban legend. I'm not saying that you're wrong, I'd just like some proof.
I'm sure that most bands record labels sign don't go on to make a second album, but I think that's mostly due to poor sales of their first album.
Maybe if a label offers you a contract, you should read the contract and determine if you will make money off of it. No sense selling your music for nothing.
I agree that most of the time any record deal is better than nothing, but most of all make sure you take the contract to a music lawyer before you sign anything. A good music lawyer that deals with record contracts will be able to spot anything the record company tries to pull and negotiate it out or at least more in your favor. This may be costly at first, but is definitely necessary if you plan on making any money from record sales.
Don't worry, IA geeks are already tackling this problem for you.
The short answer is: your band will fail because they simply aren't talented enough to rise above the noise. The long answer is: technology has changed music in in a more revolutionary way that transcends internet distribution. Is a 'band' even relevant in the 21st century? Good luck though.
You are quite the amusing philistine today and a bitter, hateful troll to boot.
... responsible for more deaths ... atrocitys than any other organization / company / state / person."
... "They are the biggest killers ever"
Wrong again.
I haven't defended the Pope, American backed Latin American death squads nor the War in Iraq, the clubbing of baby seals or anything else.
Your first missive spewed this piece of offal:
(the Pope was) "the head of the single most corrupt organization ever
Now you state that:
"US Citizens"
Which is it? The Pope or US Citizens? Which one is the focus of evil in the modern world? Both?
See:
"Source List and Detailed Death Tolls for the Man-made Megadeaths of the Twentieth Century" to get some real numbers. There's even a 19th Century stats section for you pinheads that want to compare Stalin to the death of American indians again.
http://users.erols.com/mwhite28/warstats.htm
(Interesting stats, most well documented, and sometimes with conflicting sources (eg: Chomsky gives higher VN casualties than UN reports on the same events, etc.)
Sometimes it like debating a single celled organism..
Sorry to be O.T., but the Pope is the leader of the Catholic religon, not Christianity. Get it right.
basically the buisness model is, ,good songs which anyone can share, you are asked to give performances, where you pass out free cds (for a donation ofcourse)
1)put out your songs in (cc) licencing with your choice of rights
2)Make it availble through your website by torrent (not much server fees)
3)Advertise your site and licensing method (in your local-bands website etc.)
4)Ask for donations
5)As your popularity grows due to heavy usage of
6)Profit
P.S to the readers when I was reading the article it was at 270 comments, so if this idea was given before, I apologize for the added garbage.
Calm down people, its a religion not an operating system.
The music entertainment business hasn't changed and doesn't need to change. What needs to change is for the artists to realize something that the business-heads have already realized -- that the internet is a VERY inexpensive way to promote.
Artists have always made their most money by performing live. Keep it that way. Since the business heads cannot really deny the artists from their money in live performances, they attempt to extract it by giving them a very valuable service -- PROMOTION... they give fame to the artists, who in turn, exploit the fame by having higher ticket value.
How then, could today's artist gain promotion and fame? Well, you've gotta get yourself of the radio for one. But what other ways are there? MP3.com was a great way before... still is? could be? Internet isn't mainstream enough mostly because it doesn't easily come into our cars....the place where most of us listen to a lot of the music we hear. For that there's classic AM/FM FCC regulated oligopolies or the new-comer, satelite radio. There's some promise in satelite to break the stranglehold that the oligopolies have over the entertainment PROMOTION arena... but it's time for some artist unions or some other organization (that is democratically run and operated without profit intent and with defined term limits like the U.S. presidency... no more than two terms with limited terms to prevent anyone from building an empire). Then, and only then, will artists be able to combat the situation as it has become.
Want to charge for your CDs? Fantastic. If people love your music, they will want to have a "blessed" copy of the CD with all the nice cover art, trivia and literature often included... and what better to sign an autograph on? But don't charge for the music itself -- just the materials. You'll become more famous if your music is in their heads, on their hard drives, on their players or on the air. People have been brainwashed into thinking that the "product" is the CD... it isn't. The real product is in the performance. We have been made to think that the product is the CD because that's what the entertainment lords have to sell! They can't entirely sell us the performance since it's ultimately controlled by the artists... and nature and life... (people die, get sick, get pissed off and don't wanna perform, etc.) So of course they want you to think that the CD is the product.
So, take over the marketting (read: PROMOTION and FAME) and you've taken the industry back into your hands.
XM Radio's channel 52 - Unsigned, has places for you to submit your music to them to be played. They just announced a record quarter and have around 3.8 million subscribers.
So even the laziest can get my music.
RS
Shoes for Industry. Shoes for the Dead.
Check out Wilco to see how it is done. Check out Fiona Apple to see how it is done to you.
It works like this: I put up money for a first pressing of the record. When the first copies are sold we first pay off the pressing cost, then collect enough for another pressing, and then take all remaining copies and give them away. Give them away to radio stations, people in line outside big shows, magazines that will do reviews, record stores as promos, etc. All along do shows to promote your name and the CD. The idea is to promote as much as possible before you are used to making any money. When you go to your second pressing thats when you really start to make some money because by that time you will have built a little following. Give away as many downloads as you can without fear. Live songs, B-Sides, even album tracks, just don't give away your whole record because then there is much less of an incentive for a purchase, but heck it could work. Then it will be like a disease, if you're a good band (we're one of the best unknown bands out there right now, no shit check the link. Lecivius) then people will pass your music around. I am going to do everything I can to encourage 'illegal sharing' of our music. I have even considered putting an empty space in the CD package for a CD-R copy so you can keep a backup with your CD. So that when you're out listening to your record (or your perfectly legal backup) that you can pass along the backup to someone who really likes it. I know when I get a CD-R from a friend and its something I really like I have to go buy it. Then I will pass on the backup CD-R to someone else. Be it for the art or the uncompressed tracks, or just so I can have a 'real' one, I buy the CD. And I'm not alone a lot of people do this. Even people listening to your music for free from a CD-R or download that never buys any of your music is great advertising, when you go play live they'll be right there with everyone who bought the CD. And if they really are a fan of yours eventually they'll respond to your generosity with their own one way or another. These new RIAA measures with FBI piracy logos, crippled CDs, suing fans: these things make people not want to give you any money, they want to rip you off when you're so openly hostile towards them. No instead embrace file swapping, its going to happen whether you support it ot not. By singing a different tune than the RIAA you'll have the fans wanting to give you everything they can for being brave enough to be honest. Oh, and it doesn't hurt to put a paypal donation link on your site next a to a bunch of free downloads, you'd be surprised how many people will toss you a few bucks.
Jesse
The challenge and key thing for a band, _assuming_ they make good music people are going to like, is gettting heard enough, getting enough exposure.
Why do musicians traditionally get pennies on the dollar for CD sales? Its for the priviledge of being promoted, of being marketed, of getting enough exposure that a lot of people have heard and appreciate the music --- and want to buy it.
It is ludicrous for a band to expect people to want to pony up music to hear them (unless they are putting on an event, like a concert, or club act --- where people are there for more reason than just liking your music) unless they have gotten their music exposure.
Getting exposure is REALLY HARD.
And, in the old system, only several music acts at a time can be promoted to this degree, meaning you, unless you are the next Beatles, Police, Madonna, Britany, or U2, are not goi g to get a shot.
The Internet gives you that shot -- not so much to offer music to sell (that part is easy) but to get people to LISTEN to your music, to check it out.
Think of the Internet as the new radio. Getting on the radio is hard; getting people to listen to your MP3 on the Internet is not easy, but you don't have to bribe someone, or sign away 95% of your income for the next 5 years.
My well thought out recommendation: Polish and record your best 3-10 songs in MP3 format (which everyone can listen to). THEN put all your crap (photos, video clips, band interviews, lyrics, band site URL, etc. etc.) in ID3 tags within the MP3.
This allows you to send all your marketing material along with every download. If the people downloading your songs llike them enough, you've given them the hooks to get really into you.
If they don't like your songs that much then... either keep working harder at it, or go back to your day job.
The only way to make a living off your music is to have people really like it and demand it.
good luck
PS we talk about these subjects and post link to bands MP3s on the Songzilla Blog. We welcome all bands who want to post links to their MP3s there.
Step 1: Get out of the house and play some gigs. The bands I do websites for make their money playing live, plus selling merchandise at gigs. If you ask me, a guy who makes and sells recordings only (Moby, are you listening?) is doing a fraction of the work of a real musician, and subsequently should earn only a fraction of the money.
// This is not a sig.
Well, you know what they say: "it takes more faith to be an atheist". I used to think like you though.
No. Again, look up "null hypothesis" and "burden of proof". I don't need to prove something doesn't exist (it's impossible anyway).
And your statement betrays a fundamental misunderstanding of science: science doesn't absolutely prove anything, it only disproves. A scientist _must_ abandon the ability to speak with absolute certainty! You can't be absolutely certain and a scientist. Faith is the ultimate sin in science.
P.S. Newton was a proto-scientist (at the time, he would have been called a "natural philosopher" or something like that), but the scientific method wasn't formalised until the 20th century by Popper.
"Often immitated, never duplicated"
there is only one The Church, dude.
Unless you're actually interested in running a business, you should avoid having a business model. Running a successful business, regardless of the model, will take several people working full-time on overhead, and this is likely to eat up your band.
The right path is really to find someone else (such as Magnatune) who has a business model which leaves you ownership of your music, gives you a return that you feel is fair, and involves business practices you think are ethical. There's nothing inherently bad about signing with a label, just like there's nothing inherently bad about getting a loan; it's just that the well-known labels are scams.
It is an exciting time for musicians! Digital signal processing has brought semi-pro recording to the masses and the internet has provided the opportunity for next-to-nothing-cost for world-wide distribution. iTunes is providing a nice model middle-gound, bridging the crumbling and desperate existing industry with the ease of use and selection of the web. However, the iTunes model cannot last the test of time. The Audience is playing along for now, but they are aware (future audiences will be even more so) that distribution is free. If it effectively costs the same amount to give 1000 people the music as it does 10000, what artist in their right mind would opt for the smaller distribution? You may say: the artist must get paid, and I will agree with you. However, the "pay per item" model is what is dying, not the abstract "record industry." Subscription services are arriving and competition is driving the $1/song price down. Next up? Quality control! The artist websites out there, even on Mangnatune or other mp3 labels cannot survive unless they start informing the audience on what to purchase. Bad-mouthing the record industry crooks is valid, but they still provide a service - they tell the listeners where to spend their money. Is someone else going to step up and fill that role? I would agree with most of what I have read here about putting out decent music as being the first priority. For the up and coming musician I would work hard on that, and trust that new models are arriving every day. Just watch out - there are a lot of bandwagons to jump on!
First album free for download on your website.
Also put them on the various peer to peer networks with a (genre) tag in front of the band and song. That way people that do a search on punk (or whatever) will see the hits to your songs.
Record a live cover of a very popular song in your genre and also place that on peer to peer for downloading. That way people looking for that song find your song and may give you a try. On your website encourage people to request their favorite bar/whatever to try and book you for a gig. This is all stage 1 when you are trying to make money thru gigs.
Once you develop a large enough fan base (assuming you are good enough) then you release your next album for pay to play. Continue touring. Continue first album as free download on website and peer to peer to hopefully continue gaining new fans.
If you're starting your band to "make it big" you've missed the point already. Your motivation for making music should be music related.
No amount of business planning will help if you hate your bandmates and you aren't having some need of yours fulfilled by spending all this time and money.
The only way your band will survive is if you love doing it. Take care of that before you rent a practice space, buy studio time, replicate CD's, make t-shirts, buy a van and all the other things.
Now if for some reason you become really popular it may help to have thought about scalability of manufacturing and distribution providers. But if your only motivaton for starting in the first place is to "make it big" you'll probably never be a band long enough to get noticed at all. You'll all give up long before then.
I like just advertising on /.
Spackle
And how would free market Capitalism have fared if it wasn't under constant attack from the Soviet states? Oh wait - it was. Face it: it was a competition between two economic models. Both of them tried to trip each other up. And Capitalism won, by a landslide. Seriously; even feudal states have lasted longer than the Communist record of 71 years (1917 - 1991). Communism required that the state create an artificial market, it required that people give up their individuality, and it required that mediocrity be idealized. It never stood a chance against Capitalism, which allows the market to do what it wants, requires that people act as individuals, and requires that exceptional ability be idealized. Even a totally corrupt Capitalist country (as many would argue is the case in the USA) was more than a match for all of the Soviet Republics.
**** You never REALLY learn to swear until you own a computer. ****
Anyhow, I'm in an independent band, keiretsu. As our members have a lot of side-projects, we started an organisation d:art recordings to oversee things. However, the name is a con really - we're not a record label, it's just a device for common publicity and branding.
How do we use the internet? Well, many different ways:
- Mailing list - obvious, but essential. Harvest email addresses on a clipboard after gigs, then you can remind people who liked you when you next return to that city.
- Gigs listings - let people know when they can see you
- MP3 downloads - we've had tons of listeners from people thousands of miles away, where we have never and maybe will never do a live gig. Although nothing has come off yet, we have even had promoters contact us about tentative international dates.
- CD Sales - We provide free MP3 clips of every track of our album, and a full download of one of the tracks. I also share this album preview pack on P2P clients like Soulseek. If you like what you hear, you can buy it, via Paypal (or the good old fashioned of snail-mailing me UK currency). I've despatched dozens of CDs across the pond to America.
- Running a forum so fans can chat with us.
- Getting interviewed on genre-orientated websites, and getting our downloadable tracks featured on genre-orientated websites and MP3 Blogs to further boost our online profile.
It goes hand in hand with the real-world, of course. Our CD booklet prominently features our URL, as does the large banner we display behind or above the band at gigs, wherever possible.My overall verdict: the internet is an invaluable marketing tool, and you can't neglect the online facet of operations when trying to push an independent music act. It's too big these days. On the other hand, you have to be very unique and special indeed to turn "the internet" alone into a profitable business model. Without continuous gigging, which is still the most effective way of getting yourself heard and building up a fanbase, our online CD Sales would probably not amount to much.
Allow fans to record your live shows! This can create a pretty strong fan base, and allow your music to be posted on popular sites such as http://bt.etree.org/.
If you believe in privacy, and believe you have "nothing to hide" at the same time, you're a goddammed idiot
yeah, sure live electronic performances aren't interesting, which is a shame (although there are some, for instance Doormouse or Otto Von Schirach). However, I go to live electronic parties to speaker hug. Depending on the type of music you make/listen to, there's nothing better than putting in your earplugs, going right up to those 30" woofers, and just blissing out to the lows.
But overall, as a musician, I've noticed from being in bands over the years that you make the most money by doing shows and selling merch. Selling music hardly gets you any money in comparison to those outlets.
Shouldn't You expect more from your DJ?
It's always good to take a look at bands who are successful and have done it on their own.
The String Cheese Incident is one of them. They have achived great success without any major record label.
Much of their success was from that grueling tour schedule but they also have their own record company and ticketing company.
So I shamelessly ask for the loan of your ear. :-)
http://music.tparker.net
All men aren't pigs... we just smell that way.
You could write a virus that has your music in the payload...think of the exposier!
I think a few important things are being missed in these threads:
1) When you release your own material, and do everything DIY, there is a MUCH greater profit margin. Done correctly, you can make more money selling 10,000 CDs than a band on a major label will if they sell 200,000 copies. CDs are not that terribly expensive to print. And selling mp3s is almost all profit. You don't need to be a super star to be a success, so being a big regional act can all of a sudden pay off well. Getting into the Walmarts, etc, is less important.
2) Everyone seems to be addressing the pros and cons of marketing online, and explaining how many tracks to release, etc. But, how do you publicise? How do you get people on your site to download/enjoy your stuff? That is the tricky part. There are thousands and thousands of bands out there trying to do this. How do you draw attention to yourself?
I do agree with the other posters who said, "play live". Speaking as a promoter, playing live is the best way to create a lasting memory of your music, which is how you build a fan base. Play out often!
"As soon as the first band is succesful making it work, the floodgates are open!"
So what's taking so long, and whom do we blame?
We secured distribution online originally by getting signed by Garageband, which I admit was a stroke of luck. Next, we partnered with CDBaby and used them to sell CDs directly to consumers (which became important after Garageband withered and released us from our contract). This (as others have mentioned) led us to getting listed on iTunes and dozens of other online music outfits. After that, playing out, swapping gigs, and making mini tours was a great way to get exposure. Getting signed allowed us to get written up in zines and even Billboard, so there is indeed something tangible about "getting signed." Your press kit is forever yours to build up and sell yourself, so make sure you get as much press as possible (even local press).
Now, to stroke the gods of honesty: "making it" takes luck, talent, luck, connections, luck and luck. Take every avenue afforded to you, even - to the chagrin of all Slashdotters -- signing with a minor or major. Get a good lawyer and you won't get suckered into signing all your rights (esp. to the sound recordings) away.
For those interested who have one ear bent in the late 90s era indie pop (e.g Pavement, Superchunk), you can check us out on iTunes.
And most importantly: good luck!
Okay, here's what's going on. When a label signs you on to a contract, they give you an advance to cover your expenses. However, this advance and most other money a label gives you is "recoverable" which means that you must pay it back out of the royalties you earn. Since most signed artists don't ever sell anywhere near enough albums to pay back the advance, they never see any royalties.
But what all these articles imply is that the artist is then required to pay back the rest of the advance, and this is not true. The truth is, the artist ends up with nothing more than what they have left from the advance (probably nothing, since they had to pay to produce the album, travel to promote it and things like from the advance).
I think that this wrongly implies that artists are being exploited. You must remember that most of the artists they sign would never earn enough money to pay back the advance even it they got 100% royalties. Since the labels only make money on the really successful artists, it makes sense that they should pay royalties to only those artists. I might point out that the book industry works about the same way, but people don't complain about that.
1.) Any music you have for sale should be linked from your web site. Preferably, all of it would be there.
2.) No DRM, or at least a no DRM option.
Call me lazy, but if I can't go to www.yourband.com and purchase an unprotected MP3, (or at least be painlessly directed to a site where I can make such a purchase) the chances of me purchasing anything are reduced signficantly.
That's a very insightful post! =)
As long as there is the sex and drugs, I can do without the rock and roll.
No sharp objects, I'm a programmer!
What kinds of features would a site need?
RSS Feeds
Fast downloads
Provide your songs in multiple formats
Would you pay for downloads of MP3s from a band's site or not?
Yes
At what price?
Must be under a buck.
Would donations work, or would everyone just freeload?
Free donations would not work unless you had really really really loyal fans who loved your music.
How often would you need updates or new songs to keep you coming back?
Songs...at least monthly. Quicker the better. I suggest release a new song every week instead of releasing an album.
If downloads were free, would you then buy a full length album from the site just to get the CD?
No.
I would download and burn burn burn.
What special features should the CD include?
Forget CDs. They're out and old.
How would you get your name out?
Google. Yahoo.
Promo tours.
Other stuff like that.
What do you think is the best course of action for a band that wants to completely circumvent the whole music industry process and do it themselves?
Set up a website
Host your MP3s there
Try get a few bands together and share a fast webserver [it'll save you costs]
...on of the best survivors of the "figure out how to make the net work for us" bands is Marillion, who seem to have turned their core fan-base into not only consumers, but as a marketing team that far outstrips the "street-team" and that actually has a more direct contact with the band itself, to the point that they have effectively pre-funded tours and album advances for them without any record company intervention. They literally have established what most marketing execs dream of...true brand loyalty. www.marillion.com
We have recorded our demo cd and made it available through our website. All songs are under CreativeCommons license. The idea is to get to the people so that they will get to know you. As said before, I nobody knows you, you will be not listened to. The money should be coming in from the lives shows and selling CD's.
That's acutally the second argument I would like to make: Buy the CD's of the Band you really like.
MP3's are always available from the net, that's why we didn't even bother putting ot crippled or shortened versions of our mp3's. If somebody buys the cd, the songs will be appearing on the net. So that's being honest with yourself.
Anyway, check us out at http://www.soteriosmusic.com/
Voss
The best way to bypass the "recording industry" in your business model is to focus on profits from live gigs, and use recording and distribution (via internet etc.) for promotion.
I don't think this is the answer you're looking for, but unless you REALLY make the big time there isn't much profit in selling recordings (internet, CD or otherwise) - even most famous bands make most of their personal profits though touring.
The other thing about live gigs is you can quickly find out if your music is actually any good by your ability to draw and grow an audience. If you don't have people asking to get on your mailing list, or don't start to get people you have no connection with bringing their friends along then you probably need to work on your material / performance.
If anyone has different experiences I'd like to hear them.
Look up Argumentum ad Ignoranitam. Look up other logical fallacies too, not only because they are interesting, but because they will also help you solidify your beliefs.
If God is truly omniscient, then he knows everything that has happened and will happen. Therefore his knowledge covers an infinite timespan. If God created the universe perfect and at some point in the future it will return to his perfection, then no matter the span of time that it deviates from perfection, to God it is no more than a singularity. That is, if you know anything about Calculus, the limit as t approaches inifinity of e/t equals zero, where e is the time that the universe is under evil influence and t is the life span of the universe. If you argue that the universe is growing and shrinking, winding time backward and forward, then the universe is merely oscillating between perfection and imperfection. To think that the world today would carry any significance to anything omniscient only exemplifies the needs out of which religion was created by man.
yes.
I would attribute Americans screwing up American English so much to the fact that most American's first language is American English. Children learn their language first by ear, they are not taught how to write it. It's easier to make mistakes when you are essentially saying words in your head, writing them down, and looking at them to make sure they look like words in your lanuguage than to compose prose in a slightly (or very) foreign language.
Calling English brain dead, like calling most things brain dead, only shows that it is you who is brain dead. If you understand English, you will see that it's grammar and vocabulary follow their own set of rules. Saying English makes no sense is what sixth graders do when they fail their spelling tests.
If you want to learn the rules behind English, instead of simply memorizing a bunch of "exceptions," try learning German, French, Latin, Ancient Greek, and Old English. That should clear some things up for you.
Ive p[layed in a few sucessful local bands and were able to use the internet to promote and distribute our music without getting signed. First, let me say, the only way, i do mean the only way to get signed is to prove that you can SELL records 1) eihter your already famous 2) or youre already selling records. If youre already selling records, then the record companies are going to fight over you and youll end up getting a good deal. Thought if your band is "good" but have only sold lets say 1000-5000 records, you will get a crappy deal that will screw you and your band. If you look at prince, aniee mann, and like scores of other artists, they realized that distribution is almost free with the internet, the only thing an artist needs now is promotion. So as an artists, you are ust looking to get your name out along with your website url. Thats basically it. A band would be smart to trade albumn sales for promotion, and the promotion doesnt need to come from any music related entity. It could be an investor who wants to make some $$$. The goal for a band starting out is to push the band name and interviews and appearences and signing sessions and free live shows and open mic nites and radio spots and print ads and news articles and anything else that can expose the band. Gone are the days of needing Capitol/RCA's fleet of semi trucks to get your cd inot the music stores, since in 2005, people feel comfortable buying online, you can strictly sell your albumn online and rake: 100% of the profit! Thats right! 100% goes to the artist less promotion fees. The old fashioned way, Billy joel or elton john are lucky to get 8 cents on the dollar for their music. The riaa has screwed up the music business and the internet is a great leveler. Sio as a band, just focus on getting people to your site, and at that point, your music should sell itself :)
Good Luck Yall!
-Ryan Smith
Hi folks! I'd just like to say that it reaffirms my belief in people, free market capitalism and the implications of the Internet to see that this issue has resolved itself so well. In 1991 I rushed into my boss's office to tell him I'd thought of an area where we could focus on to develop products for the Internet - the music industry. They already had the digital content, current (now called "early") Internet users were demographically significant consumers of music, and a quick rethink of the business model for the industry would create opportunities for producers/artists to take marketshare. Mike Burke - my boss at seachg.com at the time - had been a record producer in the 80s. His "Forget it" was accompanied with words to this effect: "I know these people, I used to be one. The music industry will still have it's thumb in its ear ten years from now on this." Of course, as we know now, he was entirely correct. It frustrated the crap out of me and I have nagged at the problem since. Every musician and most other people I meet get queried on a couple standard areas, and the change in response over time has been fascinating. 1/ In the early 90s, musicians would respond with a disgusted "no" when asked if they would put their music on the 'Net for free download. o This is now completely reversed. As posters to this thread have pointed out, there are plenty of business models people can try to make the creative effort of their musical talents put bread on the table. Every model (worth a hill of beans [imho]) includes making some or all of the music freely available on the 'Net. 2/ Throughout the 90s and up until the very recent past, non-musicians believed that people who downloaded free music had exited the commercial loop - they were stealing music and would not be part of the music economy. o Surveying teenagers over the years - particularly my nephews/nieces and their friends - has shown the dynamic I expected: they download piles of music, then buy CDs from the artists they like. They also buy other articles (clothing...) that supports the musicians financially. The two reasons people purchase music even when they don't have to are: - that they want an "official" version (CD with the cover art). - they think it is the fair and right thing to do. The second reason is the important one, to understand the social dynamics driving the economic model (and human nature, but that's another topic). Even though many (most?) people believe that humans are greedy and unfair, the reality is that most people will do what they believe is fair for all parties the majority (+80%)of the time. This is an area of research now with experimenatal proofs, btw, not just long-hair philosophy (SciAm a year or two had a good writeup on this - you can prove this with any two random people all day long). What this means for musicians is that if you make your music available and provide products/services at fair prices, people who like your music will purchase them. For the "music industry" outside of the actual artists, there remain plenty of opportunities to provide services to the artists to help them reach wider markets. Any artist or "industry person" who cannot make a living with their activities in this space either is missing product (people don't like your tunes) or is not providing products to the fans that: a/ are the kind of thing they are looking for or b/ are priced appropriately. I'll be interested in seeing how it develops from here, and I think it will be good for the artists, the music consumer and people who can help bring the two together. So, glad to see that it all worked out so well. -cheers! -chris
Chris Blask chis@blask.org blaskworks.blogspot.com
I'm always a little suprised at how little most musicians know about copyrights. As a musician myself I've researched this issue. This information applies to the United States, if you live in another country YMMV. You copyright music by: A) Public Performance (playing it to others B) Recording Do either of those and you own a copyright to the song (unless previously copyrighted by another) and the performance/recording. Pease note that you can own a copyright to a performance or recording without owning the copyright to the material being recorded/performed. Good luck, however, proving you own that copyright in court. That's where copyright registration comes in. For a fee ($20 last I checked) you can register a copyright for a song, or collection of songs. While registering your copyright isn't technically necessary, it's a darn good idea. The "musicians guilds" like BMI and ASCAP offer a more economical "registration" plan to it's members. They often also provide legal assistance in infringement cases. While these guilds aren't cheap, that assistance can be invaluable. After all, if someone infringes on your copyright YOU are the one that has to get the lawyer and start the legal proceedings. Good luck finding a lawyer to take that on spec (a percentage basis with nothing down) unless you have the government certified copyright registration. Mailing yourself a copy of your CD is of limited use. Make sure you use an envelope with tamper-resistant seals, and use certified mail. I shouldn't need to add that you don't want to open the envelope when you recieve it (but will - you can never underestimate the stupidity of others, so someone would). Since you copyrighted the material by recording it, the reason to mail it is to establish the date (from the postmark). Since postmarks aren't hard to fake, so registered mail is more likely to hold up in court. E-mailing the song to yourself would be useless- it's to easy to fake E-mail headers, etc, so it wouldn't reaaly prove when you made the recording. Remember, the purpose of registering a copyright (by whatever means) is to establish the date the material was copyrighted, not merely that you copyrighted it. Having a copyright does NOT mean someone else can't perform/record your song without your permission. They can "force a copyright" and simply have to pay you a small (ussually 5 to 7 percent) royalty. Coolio refused to give Weird Al permision to parody Gangsta's Paradise, but Al was still able to record and sell Amish Paradise, he simply had to pay the royalties. Getting permission isn't required, it's just good manners. IANAL, if you're serious about making it big you should get one who is experienced in copyright law. Trust me - the labels have them and will walk all over you if they think they can make a buck doing so. I also recommend at least one band member take a class on running a small buisiness. The streets are home to a lot of very talented broke musicians. The buisiness skills will put more money in your pocket than your musical talents. Many of todays biggest "artists" have no talent (IMHO) but have great marketing and buisiness management skills on their side. Sadly, the truth is that a tight pair of pants and a great ass will sell more music than actual talent and musical skill. Tommy
Open Source for Open Minds
My method is to wait until someone posts something to slashdot about independent musicians, reply blathering on about lack of a business model, then gratuitously link to my own site (http://towndowner.com/) as an example.
I give everything away. If I could make merchandise for free, I'd give that away, too. My day job isn't great, but it's not terrible. Hell, it's been three years since I had to work at a pizzeria.
Someday I'll set up a paypal account and probably garner about five bucks a year. Who cares? -- I could quote Andrei Tarkovsky (sorry - I proselytize via digression) on why people make art to begin with, but I'd rather just blame it all on a low self-esteem. I like to think I'm a more valuable person because I make music.
I spent a decade trying to figure out how to make money on music, and concluded that even if it is possible, it's too great a distraction from the music-making itself. My new goal is to get emails from people I've never met before telling me what they think of the music. I doubt this will happen, but I thank the original poster for giving me yet another opportunity to beg for response. Everybody out there - feel free to listen to my music and tell me what you think of it. Or do something more productive. Please, though, if you would like to respond, be merciless. I have enough false friends in RL.
So as to not be totally self-serving, I'd like to mention there's a netlabel on archive.org named Sundays in Spring. I enjoy their (very melancholy verse-chorus-verse-style) music.
Don't you already know that RIAA musicians don't make money from their CD sales? Yes, they get a contract that fronts (loans) them $100-200k for expenses to record it, but then they get sent to the RIAA's own recording studio that charges $10k/day to record the songs. Then they bill the artist for advertising. Then they mail out thousands of copies of the CD to promote it and bill the artist for the wholesale price. If you get big enough to warrant a music video, they pay for it and charge it to your account. The only way you keep any money is if your album goes multi platinum, or if your studio costs are less than what you get fronted AND you never make another album.
The only way you'll make money is in touring. Even then, the venue eats alot of the profits. Either they take half of ticket sales, or they get all the merchandising.
Most musicians should count themselves very lucky if they can ever clear 6 figures per year. Hell, if I had no college (or even high school in a lot of cases) degree and spent years playing my guitar in my mom's garage, I'd thank god just to be able to make 30k a year. It pains me the way that drummers and guitar players think they deserve to make as much as the CEO of a small, but highly successful company. If uneducated musicians consistently made good money, then everyone would be a musician. Even doped-up, STD-riddled, ugly-ass musicians get laid. They should be paid well too?!?
It is basically free advertising. You pay for some bandidth, but since the file is DRM free, it will get passed out to more people than you pay bandwidth for. Put a URL in the ID3 tag and you're on the way.
Points:
1) It will be slow to take off
2) You may not be as good as you think
the second point is not a knock, but you may find out that you are only really selling to a few thousand people worldwide. Settle for the recognition and everything beond that is just gravy.
The sentence structure was there and the words seem to be spelled right, so how come what made no sense whatsoever?
You started saying you'll go off on a tangent (looks more like a non-sequitor to me) and reconnect later. However, there is no reconnection.
The GP said "I make $1.6M last year with creative copyrighted work, so no, I'm not talking out my ass". You then go off on some schtick about the internet and end up saying just because RIAA cartel control is disintegrating doesn't mean that the alternatives are better.
So?
You have done nothing in your responste to apologise for your personal attack and drifted off in to la la land.
on the back-catalogue collection. So many people miss that.
Also, it isn't "information wants to be free" but that "when you use an idea it cannot remain secret". If you don't want your information used by someone else, then don't tell them what it is.
Of course, your "IP" is worthless now, so maybe it wasn't worth having?
Ever heard of condoms? Birth control? Now you can't use the "its not OK to use those" argument because you just dismissed it above.
Fucking your brains out is a human instinct. If people want to do it and you want to think you have the 'self control' not to, then that is theirs and yours problem. But don't sit around and back someone up who says birth control is bad, and THEN say that fucking is bad. Give me a fucking break.
Your ignorance is infinitely greater than you realize.
TEH UMERIKANS SI TEH BIGGAST MURDUREZ *FOREVAR* CUZ I SEYS SO!
Hugs and kisses,
GNUALMAMIERDA
Did you burn your history books when you burned your bibles?
You messed with ALMAFUERTE, obviously you don't know who he was, you seem to have burned your history books.
BTW, The Bible is a book. I Don't burn Books. I prefere to burn the people that beleives that shit, they diserve it, the books don't.
WTF am I doing replying to an AC at 5 A.M on a Friday night?
"Why? Because there are all kinds of costs associated with being on a label and making records, and those costs are recoupable. In label lingo, "recoupable" simply means that the record company wants that money back. Not only do they want it back, but the artist is going to have to pay for it out of their share - those piddley 15 points less all the other percentage deductions - before seeing any cash themselves."
y /music_ law/points_music_publishing_agreement.htm
What does this mean? It means that artists won't see royalties until they've paid back the advance. So no, the label can not "sic collection agencies on them". The idea that they can is a myth perpetuated by people who want to prove recode labels are evil in every way imaginable.
Don't believe me, I've done a little searching. From this site:
http://freeadvice.com/intellectual_propert
"The advance is usually "nonrefundable and recoupable." Advances are "nonreturnable" because if the writer does not earn any royalties, the writer need not pay the advance back. "Recoupable" means if the writer's songs generates sufficient royalties to pay back the advance, the publisher gets to "recoup" its advance. Once the writer is "recouped", all additional income collected is split between the writer and the publisher in accordance with the agreed share. The only song writer royalty a publisher cannot recoup is income form public performances."
So it is pretty conclusive that they don't have to pay it back.
As far as the audience is concerned, I might as well be playing tetris or minesweeper.
there are plenty of bands that are entirely electronic that can totally rock. Try http://Seksuroba.com
Being totally electronic can free you from the anchor of the guitar and drums.
Then again, there are also bands that are totally electronic (and even bands that aren't totally electronic) that can cause me to fall asleep in a crowded, loud club.
hey this is an old topic, if you look at older netlabels such as http://www.tokyodawnrecords.com, http://www.thinnerism.com or http://www.mono211.com !
sale of bonds and shares in music albums
sale of personalized music tracks (only for unknown bands)
concert ordering functionality
concert contest and fair distribution of prize among all participants
Would donations work, or would everyone just freeload?
donation of 52 kbps Ogg version into the CPP
and the 192 kbos version into the premiumCPP to reward voders and promote (read "push") unknown musicians to a community which produces and trades its community content vis-a-vis companies
What do you think is the best course of action for a band that wants to completely circumvent the whole music industry process and do it themselves?
join vodes.net
Well then, that's perfect justification for lying about who is a mass murderer and who isn't. Thanks for explaining that.
Machiavelli would be so proud.
Right now I am doing a poll at my blog rahard.modblog.com. How much would you willing to pay for an MP3 song. The top vote is between Rp.1000 to Rp.5000. That's around US10c to US 50 cents. Bear in mind our low GDP.
One postive note is that only 9% voted for free (gratis) MP3. So, in general, people are willing to pay. The million dollar question is ... how much?
BTW, let us know what you decide
You are obviously an asshole. Please actually _READ_ Machiavelli, Machiavelli was being CRITICAL, you can't take what he said VERBATIM, he was questioning the power of the government at the time. It's called Sarcasm, read about it some day.
WTF am I doing replying to an AC at 5 A.M on a Friday night?
No....but you're still a liar.
Funny, looking at your comment list, you never address when you get caught in a lie, you try to start up some secondary or tertiary argument to divert and muddle things.
You also apparently like to take things out of context and pick and choose what to emphasize and eemphasize. 'Machiavellian' doesn't mean 'critical of the government.' You know damned well what was being said of you, and you know damned well that that's what you are doing.
Will GNUALMAMIERDA come clean and admit he's a liar trying to unfairly smear people he doesn't like and is further unable to address the subject at hand? Stay tuned, folks!
long live freezepop
What Firefox is to Internet Explorer...we need an open source client to compete with ITunes. Ideally this product would be used for 1) managing a personal digital music collection 2) facilitating transfer of music to all digital music players 3) buying music from various independent online labels other than ITunes. Point #3 is most important because a proper open source client would facilitate plug-ins to allow non-technical music lovers to easily purchase music from their favorite sites (with one click like ITunes?) and then manage the download and filing of the music. Basically a seamless buying experience just like ITunes...except built on open standards, with the ability to access independent online labels. If you've ever tried to buy music with Napster, you'll know what I mean...confusing for the unitiated. Is anyone out there developing such a thing? This is what independent bands will truly need take advantage of digital music. ITunes fees are too high, and there are too many restrictions. Open standards will free independent artists.