Hiawatha was built first because the right-of-way was already owned by the county (Hiawatha was originally slated to be a six-lane freeway). It was never intended to be the only rail system in the Cities.
The central corridor LRT will go right along University Ave. While it will be on a guideway separated from the road, it will be built within the existing roadbed.
There is a very commmon alternative to Hiawatha: the car. As I said, I take it very frequently, and honestly the time savings is a wash. Some days its faster and others its a little slower. There are other reasons to take a quality public transportation ride. I've heard this time and again talking to other riders.
PRT in an urban setting is a bad idea. We already have proven and effective technology for moving people around such areas. What we don't have is a way to move people from sparse suburbs to transit corridors. That's where I see a real benefit to PRT.
You touched on the real issue here so I'll elaborate.
I've heard PRT advocated as a downtown circulator. This makes no sense to me. I live in Minneapolis so I'll use that as an example. The downtown area is very walkable. We even have
skyways to get around in the winter. The downtown and surrounding area bus system is very popular. When traveling downtown, there are usually just a few places people need to go: the business district, the entertainment district, stadiums, etc. The downtown circulator PRT map I saw followed the current bus routes and had stops in the major areas I mentioned. Buses already stop there, both express and limited-stop service.
And that's not even mentioning the aesthetic consequences.
I can see PRT being useful as a way to get people from suburban neighborhoods to the LRT or commuter rail station. There is a real need there for a personal solution because the suburbs are very sparse.
Even the president of Taxi2000 (developers of SkyWeb Express) agrees that PRT is useful only in limited situations and is not a competitor to LRT or commuter rail. I spoke with him directly this past week.
Um...so how do you explain the success of the Hiawatha LRT? Double the projected ridership is pretty impressive. I take it to work most days. It only stops for lights in the downtown area. Most of the 12 miles are on a preemptive dedicated right-of-way. Otherwise it wouldn't be LRT.
While the technical problems and uncertainties are many (scalability, actual cost since no real system has ever been built, etc.), there's one fundamental non-technical problem with PRT. It flies in the face of the kind of urban communities we want to create, especially here in the Twin Cities. The urban lifestyle is about community and cooperation. PRT is about isolation and fear. Read some of the marketing and grassroots literature about it.
I accept that - except that you (in north-central Minneasota) are not in my (northern Iowa) community.
Here is where we fundamentally disagree. We are connected on many issues. Our immigration platform is the national Gamaliel Foundation immigration platform. Immigration is a national issue.
Transportation is a national issue too. Currently, the pending federal transportation bill is stuck in conference committee. It's passed both the House and Senate. Our representatives are sitting on it, continuously extending the current bill. This is a problem because the new bill includes some important federal funding formula changes. This affects your state as well as mine and it is in both of our best interests to get it signed.
Schools are a national issue. No Child Left Behind has not worked. It needs to be funded or repealed. I'm fine with state school control. I think that's entirely appropriate.
Some issues are national, some both national and local and others strictly local. Many issues shift between these categories from time to time.
As I mentioend in another response, we are "doing stuff." We work on social justice. That generally means we look for systemic solutions to chronic problems. To do that, we need to interact with our government, business leaders, private citizens and all sorts of groups.
Other organizations do the important work of charity, keeping their fingers in the dike until the system is fixed.
They are different roles. One is not better than the other. Both are necessary.
If you can get 4000 people with their hand out to whatever level of government - you've got 4000 people who can actually take it upon themselves and do something to help their community.
That's exactly what we're doing. I've met with the MN Commissioner of the Dept. of Revenue, the MN Chamber of Commerce, the Metropolitan Council, Citizens League, transit groups, churches and more. We build personal relationships on various issues where we find allies. Our four statewide issues are:
Funding for public education
Funding for domestic violence services
Dedicated budget for public transportation
Immigration reform
These are issues important to many people. This isn't a "pie in the sky" effort. We work on those issues that have broad support and are winnable.
You should be telling those officials to back off and allow you to take care of your own community
This is exactly the reinforcement of isolation that we reject. It's not "our own community." We are one community. Individual neighborhoods, cities, counties, etc. are interdependent. What we do affects others.
The sheer amount of taxes that everyone pays makes for a good excuse to avoid donating to the church or to other worthy groups - they "gave at the office already". Get the government out of the way and allow people to do what they know how to do to make a difference.
Taxes are not bad. Taxes allow us to pay for things like schools, highways, public transportation, art and critical infrastructure.
I'm working specifically on public transportation. Government must be involved because it is the only entity with the authority to manage rights-of-way, do urban planning and budget the enormous amounts of money these projects require. To see what happens when each city goes its own way, take a look at the Detroit metro area.
I am a memer of the ISAIAH organization, an interfaith coalition of churches in the Twin Cities and Saint Cloud, MN regions. We use faith-based organizing to work for social justice. We do this because our faith calls us to do it.
While not everyone is motivated by faith to work on these issues, most people share the common values that drive it. This past weekend, we got 4,000 people together to talk to our state and federal legislators about what matters to us.
Underneath all of this is an effort to change the current dominant worldview. We are constantly told to be afraid, that no one is there to help us -- we have to be self-reliant and go it alone and that there just isn't enough to go around.
We've been told this in many ways. Terrorists are going to attack us; we all need to take personal responsibility; individualism is supreme; taxes are an evil to be avoided at all costs; we can't afford to pay for schools.
4,000 people came together on Oct. 10 to reject this outlook. We put forth an alternate view: one of hope, community and shared abundance. We know there is enough to go around -- taxes are how we fund our society and we all have a responsibility to contribute. We know we are surrounded by community and by acting in community we have more power than acting alone. We have hope because we have put this vision into action with real results.
Some of our elected officials were "visibly shaken" according to the Minneapolis Star-Tribune. They did not expect ordinary citizens to declare such a radical vision and did not expect so many to support it.
I believe this new worldview is what Lessig is talking about. When we live and work in community, hope and abundance, we will provide for the future as well as the present.
It's time to define our own society and stop letting others define it for us.
Well, technically our (Minnesota) primaries aren't completely open. One must vote a single party for the partisan portion of the ballot, though there's no need to declare which party that is in advance.
But you're right. These rights do make voting much, much easier.
Minnesota has a very simple answer to the registration problem: same day registration.
Our state has one of the highest voter turnout rates in the country and same-day registration has a lot to do with that.
Damn, I wish they'd indicated you could post
more than one question before I posted mine.
Ah well, here 'tis (paraphrased):
There are presently two top issues in the state of Minnesota: health care and transportation.
Frankly, I find both the Republican and Democrat health care proposals to be woefully inadequate. What will you do as president to ensure that all Americans receive the health care and insurance every human being deserves?
What will you do as president to build vibrant communities and ensure mobility for all Americans, including those who cannot afford a persoinal vehicle.
The Boost developer mailing list provides a wealth of practical experience and innovative software engineering for the C++ programmer. Not only do you learn how the amazing libraries work, you get to see the thought and development process that goes into them. I did not really understand templates until I joined this list.
Don't believe me? Look at the numbers yourself. The Strib had a nice writeup on it about a week ago.
Remember, we're talking inflation over a period of more than ten years.
I'm not sure if they've made up their minds whether to build an 'urban' street-level system or a long-distance commuter service. Hiawatha is really neither.
I just rode it today from Hennepin/Warehouse (the first stop for non-Twin Citians) to Fort Snelling (the last until construction reaches The Mall). In all it took just over 15 minutes. No way I could do that in a car, even with light traffic.
I agree that commuter service is needed. A Northstar line that extended from Minneapolis to St. Cloud would be great. Too bad transit opponents crippled it so it will only go to Big Lake initially, if it gets built at all. Still, a partial route makes it all the more likely the full route will be built at some point.
The Dan Patch and Red Rock lines are also interesting commuter routes. We really ought to have one out to Hudson, WI as well.
It's really too bad that Republican Gov. Pawlenty stocked the Met Council with conservatives who dismantled a good transit plan produced by the previous administration. We need elected council members. Tell me again how an advocate for dismantling the council is allowed to serve on it, representing downtown Minneapolis (Annette Meeks).
In the distant future, I want to see high speed rail to Duluth, Fargo, Rochester, etc. with connections to Madison, Milwaukee and Chicago. There is absolutely no reason we should be flying from Minneapolis to Chicago.
If they wanted a rail line there, Hiawatha wasn't the best choice for a route.
Hiawatha was a political compromise made for several reasons, not the least of which was the state-held right-of-way along Hiawatha Ave. I agree that it's not a big commuter corridor. I'd like to see the system expanded along 394 and 169. The Strib had a recent aritcle about plans for a line out to Eden Prairie. That would be fantastic.
The area is what people outside of MN would call "suburban" (free standing homes with yards and tons of parking), and the existing transit ridership along the route was pretty low.
Have you spent time riding the buses along Lake Street? They are heavily used every morning and afternoon I ride them and on weekends too. They are very popular.
And there is definitely not "tons of parking" in Uptown.
A much better choice would have been to connect downtown Minneapolis with the University and downtown St Paul.
By law the next line must serve Ramsey County with a line along University Ave. the most likely choice to accomplish that. I agree that this would be a very useful and popular route and can't wait for them to get started.
Most of the cost increase was due to inflation. A small amount went to system improvements such as the Mall of America realignment. Those who stalled the line only increased its cost. Don't blame transit supporters for that.
Hiawatha is already spurring development along its line, most importantly near the depressed E. Lake Street area.
I lived near Detroit for seven years and we are right on their tail as far as road expense goes. Michigan spends an enormous amount of money on roads and can't even afford to maintain the roads it already has, much less build new ones.
Our highway system is far from ideal. Drivers on 494 and 35W know this. We cannot expand roads in the cities. There's no room.
A baseball stadium provides little public benefit, though I agree that it's good for downtown business. A transit system provides proven benefits, including increased mobility (especially for the elderly and poor), decreased isolation and economic development.
We need a transit system in the Twin Cities. Rail and Bus Rapid Transit are quite doable in our area. We once had the best streetcar system in the nation (Thank you, Tom Lowry!). No reason we can't have a leading transit system again.
Hiawatha is great! I take a limited stop bus from Uptown to Lake & Hiawatha, hop the train and then take MVTA out to the 'burbs to work. It's a really pleasant ride. The drivers and passengers are for the most part really friendly and interactive.
No more fighting jam-ups at Hiawatha and Crosstown!
I talked to lots of people at the opening and the vast, vast majority of them wondered when the rail system will be expanded. Time to call your legislator!
Land would also have to get a lot more expensive as well. Right now, it's very cheap for Wal*Mart to build a huge, single-floor store, with a huge flat parking lot. All of those huge stores with huge parking lots, mean that you have to walk a long ways if you want to visit multiple stores.
I am currently working on a proposal in Minnesota known as the Land Value Tax. The idea is to tax commercial and indusrtial land at a higher rate than the building. This encourages more efficient use of the land, fewer parking lots and abandoned buildings, etc. In Harrisburg, PA, the number of vacant buildings went from ~5,000 to about 400 after a similar bill was passed.
This has been done and it's worked very well. Hopefully it will gain wider adoption.
I've also noticed that people who live in such cities (and my own is like that) are generally happier and more social than people who live in urban areas.
I'm assuming you meant to say suburban areas. If so, I completely 100% agree. I was just out shopping in the 'burbs this afternoon and noticed that hardly anyone says "thank you" or gives a smile or even really notices one another. I said "thank you" to one of the workers in the grocery store and he give me a great smile, like he was caught completely off guard. When I go home downtown, the people generally seem more vibrant, more cheerful and they'll actually say hello.
I dunno, I can't really get all that excited about the LOTR movies. Sure, they're enjoyable to watch, but in the end I feel like I've just seen another typical Hollywood special effects bonanza. I didn't really care about the characters all that much and the sense of mystery and wonder was much less for me than in the original Matrix movie. Maybe it's just that I enjoyed imagining this fantastic world on my own when I read the books.
I'd really like to see the Academy reserve the Best Picture award for films that truly deserve it. If no film in a given year meets the standard, just don't give it out. I realize this ruins the marketing potential of Hollywood, so maybe some independent body can conceive of such an award. We need more winners like Amadeus, The
Last Emporer and Wings (which _still_ holds up as a gripping tale 77 years after it was made) and fewer winners like Titanic, Gladiator and Chicago (though I _loved_ the music).
The problem I always have with this sort of reponse is that I'm not sure whether the candidate is smart (knows not to reinvent the wheel), or dumb (doesn't know how the wheel works, its just this round thing they know how to use).
Which should be a clue that it's not a very useful question.
Yup, classic question after recieving such an answer to try and figure out whether the candidate is smart or dumb. Looks like you have a good interviewer.
Actually, a different interviewer asked me that one. The first interviewer went on to ask about how to write some string processing function or other. Blah.
The best interviews I've had were with companies that actually believed a degree meant something. IBM is particularly good in this respect. According to a friend of mine, they have an explicit policy of not asking technical questions. It's a much more even-handed approach.
Most people forget that the interview is for the candidate to evaluate the employer as well. Candidates should feel empowered to refuse to answer questions they deem inappropriate. Before this particular interview, I talked with the employer about the interview format, expressed my concerns and we came to a mutual agreement by which some elements were altered. IMHO, if a company is not willing to listen to a candidate, it's not worth listening to the company.
I recently had an interview where someone
asked me to write code for a linked list.
My response:
std::list<int> mylist;
They quickly got the message and the interview
ended up being mostly pretty interesting. One
of the most intelligent "simple" questions I
was asked was, "What code would you never write?"
Slashdot Mirror
PRT in an urban setting is a bad idea. We already have proven and effective technology for moving people around such areas. What we don't have is a way to move people from sparse suburbs to transit corridors. That's where I see a real benefit to PRT.
I've heard PRT advocated as a downtown circulator. This makes no sense to me. I live in Minneapolis so I'll use that as an example. The downtown area is very walkable. We even have skyways to get around in the winter. The downtown and surrounding area bus system is very popular. When traveling downtown, there are usually just a few places people need to go: the business district, the entertainment district, stadiums, etc. The downtown circulator PRT map I saw followed the current bus routes and had stops in the major areas I mentioned. Buses already stop there, both express and limited-stop service.
And that's not even mentioning the aesthetic consequences.
I can see PRT being useful as a way to get people from suburban neighborhoods to the LRT or commuter rail station. There is a real need there for a personal solution because the suburbs are very sparse.
Even the president of Taxi2000 (developers of SkyWeb Express) agrees that PRT is useful only in limited situations and is not a competitor to LRT or commuter rail. I spoke with him directly this past week.
Nope, it hasn't. Zimmerman is a very vocal supporter but he's not the whole council. A lot of people are against the idea.
While the technical problems and uncertainties are many (scalability, actual cost since no real system has ever been built, etc.), there's one fundamental non-technical problem with PRT. It flies in the face of the kind of urban communities we want to create, especially here in the Twin Cities. The urban lifestyle is about community and cooperation. PRT is about isolation and fear. Read some of the marketing and grassroots literature about it.
Transportation is a national issue too. Currently, the pending federal transportation bill is stuck in conference committee. It's passed both the House and Senate. Our representatives are sitting on it, continuously extending the current bill. This is a problem because the new bill includes some important federal funding formula changes. This affects your state as well as mine and it is in both of our best interests to get it signed.
Schools are a national issue. No Child Left Behind has not worked. It needs to be funded or repealed. I'm fine with state school control. I think that's entirely appropriate.
Some issues are national, some both national and local and others strictly local. Many issues shift between these categories from time to time.
As I mentioend in another response, we are "doing stuff." We work on social justice. That generally means we look for systemic solutions to chronic problems. To do that, we need to interact with our government, business leaders, private citizens and all sorts of groups.
Other organizations do the important work of charity, keeping their fingers in the dike until the system is fixed.
They are different roles. One is not better than the other. Both are necessary.
These are issues important to many people. This isn't a "pie in the sky" effort. We work on those issues that have broad support and are winnable.
This is exactly the reinforcement of isolation that we reject. It's not "our own community." We are one community. Individual neighborhoods, cities, counties, etc. are interdependent. What we do affects others. Taxes are not bad. Taxes allow us to pay for things like schools, highways, public transportation, art and critical infrastructure.I'm working specifically on public transportation. Government must be involved because it is the only entity with the authority to manage rights-of-way, do urban planning and budget the enormous amounts of money these projects require. To see what happens when each city goes its own way, take a look at the Detroit metro area.
While not everyone is motivated by faith to work on these issues, most people share the common values that drive it. This past weekend, we got 4,000 people together to talk to our state and federal legislators about what matters to us.
Underneath all of this is an effort to change the current dominant worldview. We are constantly told to be afraid, that no one is there to help us -- we have to be self-reliant and go it alone and that there just isn't enough to go around.
We've been told this in many ways. Terrorists are going to attack us; we all need to take personal responsibility; individualism is supreme; taxes are an evil to be avoided at all costs; we can't afford to pay for schools.
4,000 people came together on Oct. 10 to reject this outlook. We put forth an alternate view: one of hope, community and shared abundance. We know there is enough to go around -- taxes are how we fund our society and we all have a responsibility to contribute. We know we are surrounded by community and by acting in community we have more power than acting alone. We have hope because we have put this vision into action with real results.
Some of our elected officials were "visibly shaken" according to the Minneapolis Star-Tribune. They did not expect ordinary citizens to declare such a radical vision and did not expect so many to support it.
I believe this new worldview is what Lessig is talking about. When we live and work in community, hope and abundance, we will provide for the future as well as the present.
It's time to define our own society and stop letting others define it for us.
Well, technically our (Minnesota) primaries aren't completely open. One must vote a single party for the partisan portion of the ballot, though there's no need to declare which party that is in advance. But you're right. These rights do make voting much, much easier.
Minnesota has a very simple answer to the registration problem: same day registration. Our state has one of the highest voter turnout rates in the country and same-day registration has a lot to do with that.
Ah well, here 'tis (paraphrased):
There are presently two top issues in the state of Minnesota: health care and transportation.
Frankly, I find both the Republican and Democrat health care proposals to be woefully inadequate. What will you do as president to ensure that all Americans receive the health care and insurance every human being deserves?
What will you do as president to build vibrant communities and ensure mobility for all Americans, including those who cannot afford a persoinal vehicle.
The Boost developer mailing list provides a wealth of practical experience and innovative software engineering for the C++ programmer. Not only do you learn how the amazing libraries work, you get to see the thought and development process that goes into them. I did not really understand templates until I joined this list.
Don't believe me? Look at the numbers yourself. The Strib had a nice writeup on it about a week ago. Remember, we're talking inflation over a period of more than ten years.
I agree that commuter service is needed. A Northstar line that extended from Minneapolis to St. Cloud would be great. Too bad transit opponents crippled it so it will only go to Big Lake initially, if it gets built at all. Still, a partial route makes it all the more likely the full route will be built at some point.
The Dan Patch and Red Rock lines are also interesting commuter routes. We really ought to have one out to Hudson, WI as well.
It's really too bad that Republican Gov. Pawlenty stocked the Met Council with conservatives who dismantled a good transit plan produced by the previous administration. We need elected council members. Tell me again how an advocate for dismantling the council is allowed to serve on it, representing downtown Minneapolis (Annette Meeks).
In the distant future, I want to see high speed rail to Duluth, Fargo, Rochester, etc. with connections to Madison, Milwaukee and Chicago. There is absolutely no reason we should be flying from Minneapolis to Chicago.
Ok, enough political ranting for today. :)
And there is definitely not "tons of parking" in Uptown.
By law the next line must serve Ramsey County with a line along University Ave. the most likely choice to accomplish that. I agree that this would be a very useful and popular route and can't wait for them to get started.Hiawatha is already spurring development along its line, most importantly near the depressed E. Lake Street area.
I lived near Detroit for seven years and we are right on their tail as far as road expense goes. Michigan spends an enormous amount of money on roads and can't even afford to maintain the roads it already has, much less build new ones.
Our highway system is far from ideal. Drivers on 494 and 35W know this. We cannot expand roads in the cities. There's no room.
A baseball stadium provides little public benefit, though I agree that it's good for downtown business. A transit system provides proven benefits, including increased mobility (especially for the elderly and poor), decreased isolation and economic development.
We need a transit system in the Twin Cities. Rail and Bus Rapid Transit are quite doable in our area. We once had the best streetcar system in the nation (Thank you, Tom Lowry!). No reason we can't have a leading transit system again.
No more fighting jam-ups at Hiawatha and Crosstown!
I talked to lots of people at the opening and the vast, vast majority of them wondered when the rail system will be expanded. Time to call your legislator!
I can't believe no one has mentioned this classic yet! "Smurfy Security," indeed. That damn song still pops into my head from time to time!
I'd really like to see the Academy reserve the Best Picture award for films that truly deserve it. If no film in a given year meets the standard, just don't give it out. I realize this ruins the marketing potential of Hollywood, so maybe some independent body can conceive of such an award. We need more winners like Amadeus, The Last Emporer and Wings (which _still_ holds up as a gripping tale 77 years after it was made) and fewer winners like Titanic, Gladiator and Chicago (though I _loved_ the music).
Which should be a clue that it's not a very useful question.
Actually, a different interviewer asked me that one. The first interviewer went on to ask about how to write some string processing function or other. Blah.
The best interviews I've had were with companies that actually believed a degree meant something. IBM is particularly good in this respect. According to a friend of mine, they have an explicit policy of not asking technical questions. It's a much more even-handed approach.
Most people forget that the interview is for the candidate to evaluate the employer as well. Candidates should feel empowered to refuse to answer questions they deem inappropriate. Before this particular interview, I talked with the employer about the interview format, expressed my concerns and we came to a mutual agreement by which some elements were altered. IMHO, if a company is not willing to listen to a candidate, it's not worth listening to the company.
I recently had an interview where someone asked me to write code for a linked list. My response:
They quickly got the message and the interview ended up being mostly pretty interesting. One of the most intelligent "simple" questions I was asked was, "What code would you never write?"