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Virginia MagLev Project Back on Track
Raven42rac writes "After much delay, the $14 million Maglev train project is back on track at Old Dominion University in Virginia. All the petty lawsuits have been settled, and a much needed $2 million grant has been approved. Let us hope that this sets a precedent to Americans to not litigate ourselves out of the science and technology markets due to petty disagreements and greed. We do not need to be our own worst enemy. I, for one, would much rather ride a Maglev monorail with others, than drive a gas-guzzling car by myself. (And I apologise for the pun in the headline.)"
I'm glad the project is back on track again, but the 'petty lawsuits' were apparently contractors who weren't paid.
Hardly petty in my opinion - I'd be sueing if I wasn't paid for work I'd done.
You can't expect to wield supreme executive power, just because some watery tart threw a sword at you
Shelbyville already has one.
-h
Very well, sir. Ask and ye shall receive.
Lyle Lanley: Well, sir, there's nothing on earth like a genuine, bona fide, electrified, six-car monorail! What'd I say?
Ned Flanders: Monorail!
Lyle Lanley: What's it called?
Patty+Selma: Monorail!
Lyle Lanley: That's right! Monorail!
[crowd chants `Monorail' softly and rhythmically]
Miss Hoover: I hear those things are awfully loud...
Lyle Lanley: It glides as softly as a cloud.
Apu: Is there a chance the track could bend?
Lyle Lanley: Not on your life, my Hindu friend.
Barney: What about us brain-dead slobs?
Lyle Lanley: You'll be given cushy jobs.
Abe: Were you sent here by the devil?
Lyle Lanley: No, good sir, I'm on the level.
Wiggum: The ring came off my pudding can.
Lyle Lanley: Take my pen knife, my good man.
I swear it's Springfield's only choice...throw up your hands and raise your voice!
All: Monorail!
Lyle Lanley: What's it called?
All: Monorail!
Lyle Lanley: Once again...
All: Monorail!
Marge: But Main Street's still all cracked and broken...
Bart: Sorry, Mom, the mob has spoken!
All: Monorail!
Monorail!
Monorail!
[big finish]
Monorail!
Homer: Mono... D'oh!
"I, for one, would much rather ride a Maglev monorail with others, than drive a gas-guzzling car by myself"
Why would you want to be stuck on a train that goes from somewhere you're not (requiring you to get from where you are to the initial station) to somewhere you don't want to be (requiring you to get from the final station to where you want to go) via places where you don't want to go at times you can't choose, sitting across from a drunk and alongside someone who's coughing and sneezing all over you, rather than drive in your own car by yourself from where you are to where you want to go at whatever time you feel like?
Certainly there are places where the roads are so bad that trains are preferable (e.g. London), but in the vast majority of cases, trains really, really suck.
Maglev is extraordinarily expensive, noisy, and an engineering solution to what is a civil problem - commuting.
If maglev is what it takes to move people off the roads, I pity our civilization.
What about ordinary (cheap) trains, faster conventional trains (like Europe's TGVs) or living closer to work, or working more via Internet, or carpooling?
The best way to avoid commuting is for people to move back into the cities, to walk to work, to downsize the huge companies into smaller human-sized organizations, to live on a human scale. The best way to connect large countries is through high-speed trains that use conventional rail technology. It does not happen today for one simple reason: the artificially low cost of travelling by car and by air (thanks to subsidies on roads and on fuel).
Ceci n'est pas une signature
When I was a student, I rode a $100 bike to class. Building a $14 million monorail to do the same job sounds like overkill to me.
i personally think that $2 million grant could have gone a lot further by fueling those "gas guzzling cars" than helping another prototype that will prove to expensive to ever be put into practical use.
Business Voyeur
"Let us hope that this sets a precedent to Americans to not litigate ourselves out of the science and technology markets"
For example, yet another lawsuit against the Diablo Canyon nuclear plant (what is this the tenth, twentieth, thirtieth?). The truth of the matter is that this is exactly the reason that the nuclear industry has shut down. Insurance costs are too high because people are sucessful at suing a plant so that it will never make any profits (Diablo Canyon) or voting it closed (Racho Seco Nuclear Power Plant).
"ODU Board of Visitors member William M. Lechler also has voiced skepticism. ?It sounded like it was going to be a difficult process,? he said in December. ?They really had to have a breakthrough in technology.?
"Morris has insisted that breakthrough will happen once the $2 million federal grant money flows."
That's a pretty big assumption.
I've always found it interesting that in the US (with the possible exception of major cities) adults are almost always expected to have a car. The are many explanations for this phenomenon, e.g. lower population density, individualism, suburban sprawl, low gas prices, major urban development after the introduction of the car, bad public transportation. But for many explanations, it's not really clear what is the cause and what is the effect. There are of course positive (freedom, independence of time tables) and negative sides (environment, dependence on oil, health/obesity) to having cars for everyone.. But it's an interesting difference between the US and many (most?) other countries in the world.
I, for one, welcome our new Maglev overlords.
Maybe slashdot should auto-ban people who post "I for one welcome our [topic] overlords." and "In Soviet Russia, [topic] [verb]'s you."
Or at least punish the people who mod them up.
Throwing good money after bad. BTW, the ODU campus isn't really that big.
"God fights on the side with the best artillery." - Napoleon, Marshal of France - speaking truth to power
Oh, you love it... that's why you reply! I am the sadist, you are the masochist and Slashdot is our tool.
I remember reading an article very recently in a newspaper about how Maglevs might actually produce much more noise than a standard train...just a point...
Are you a retard?
1. The US is about personal freedom. The freedom to do what you want and go where you want to go. This cannot be over emphasized. Until the formation of the EU travel between countries wasn't that high.
2. Combine that with a very large UNIFIED country. We ARE free to travel where we want within the United States and even into Canada. It is not uncommon for relatives to live in very different parts of the countries yet still see each other on a yearly basis.
3. The US Highway systems is very large and connects all major cities. Many have multiple connections. These are subsidized by the GAS tax.
4. Low gasoline taxes. We still maintain one of the lowest per capita tax loads across the world. Still it is too high and only serves to be wasted on government pork and vote buying schemes.
5.
I don't think health/obesity can be tied to our fascination with cars. It has more to do with this "Information Age" where you no longer have to go anywhere to converse with people or find things out. Yet at the same time this lack of need to travel was not in conjunction with a change in diets.
* Winners compare their achievements to their goals, losers compare theirs to that of others.
they could build like, a 1000 nuke plants in the death valley, bottle the electricity in dynamos, and ship it to places.
I,for one, welcome our new Timmmm overlords
Business Voyeur
$14,000,000 is peanuts for any kind of real transit system. raven42rac says
I strongly suspect that this particular project is not a substitute for driving a gas-guzzling car. On any campus I have ever been on almost no-one drives a car to get from one spot on campus to another. I strongly suspect this monorail system is substitute for riding one's bike, or going by foot.
Perhaps not efficient use of money, but then research/testing rarely is. I reckon the actual project is probably not worth the money (campus train) but the outcome MIGHT be worth it eventually my 2cents
Certainly there are places where the roads are so bad that trains are preferable (e.g. London), but in the vast majority of cases, trains really, really suck.
It's the other way round: Certainly there are places where the trains are so bad that cars are preferable (e.g. USA), but in the vast majority of cases, cars really, really suck.
Why should I be annoyed by stupid rednecks with their 1000kg penis replacement, when I can sit in a comfortable chair and read my newspaper or do work on my laptop? As an additional bonus, I'm faster where I want to be and pay less. It's my experience that people who travel by train are much more relaxed than people traveling by car. Obviously I don't live in the USA.
I've read about bold and at this point unrealistic propositions regarding trains. How about underground vacuum tunnels, where maglev trains could reach amazing speeds. And then connect the entire EU with this system. Ultrafast communications. As I said it's just a dream, and unrealistic, but then again I also would like to see space colonies Gerard K O'Neill style, hypersonic aeroplanes and manned space missions around the solar system...
Everything is state of the art, trains are rarely delayed, and they enter the city centre as opposed to off-city airports.
Service is expanding, new trains are purchased, there's a high attention to design and usability and connections are good. For travels in between major cities in Denmark, it's simply hard to find arguments for cars.
Finally, someone who walks the walk. ;-) (yes, it's a pun)
That's not much that's more annoying than the arrogant twit anti-SUV crowd that thinks they are soooo superior because they drive around in a 2,500-pound "compact" that gets 35 miles per gallon instead of a 3,500-pound SUV that gets 25 miles per gallon. Such a huge sacrifice there....
In Soviet Russia, new overlords welcome YOU!
Virginal Maglev Project? I think someone needs to call up a metrosexual!
Karma: -2^0.5 . Mainly due to the imbibing of dihydrogen monoxide
Could you imagine them doing this with a beowulf cluster?
Or at least punish the people who mod them up.
Go right ahead - it's called metamoderation.
Black holes are where God divided by zero
I think there isn't nearly enough contempt and elitism in the tone of voice in this submitter.
Where's the demand for the 'heads of the nonbelievers of the maglev'? or the crimes against humanity committed by evil 'automobilists'.
Reason, free market capitalism, and individualism
ROTFL. More and more of the world's population move into cities, despite them being "obsolete"?
Cities are efficient and will only become obsolete when a plague or disaster reduces human population to 0.01% of its current levels.
Ceci n'est pas une signature
You do realize you'de be cutting out a siginificant portion of slashdot postings, right? After all, where would all the karma whores be left with? posts with a purpose? Hogwash!
I, for one, would much rather ride a Maglev monorail with others, than drive a gas-guzzling car by myself. ...that maglev technology was not cost effective because of the added cost in producing and laying out the expensive tracks. Not to mention the huge cost of levitating the train. Last I heard, modern diesel trains were much more cost effective to not only deploy (can use existing infrastructure -- which also is cheap when new deployment is required), but to operate. Last I heard, a modern diesel-electric train is far, far, cheaper to operate than a mag-lev train. What's changed?
While I certainly think the technology is mucho-cool and the geek in me wants to ride on one, the pragmatist in me doesn't understand how they make sense in the least.
I lived over 15 years in atlanta metro, rode MARTA quite a bit,it has plusses and minuses. You've pointed out a plus, but there are minuses too (last I was riding it). Such as non 24 hour service (example, the state says don't drink and drive, yet bars are allowed to stay open past when MARTA is running). That also discriminates against tax payers and citizens who do business in off hours, night shift workers, etc, and makes it impossible for a lot of people to use it even if they wanted to. And here's another critical minus, it's subsidised severely by people outside MARTA'sservice area who will almost *never* use it, and it's a big part of the cost of running it. MARTA's fares are around one dollar *under* true costs. If they were funded fairly upfront and then have the users pay for it at the true rates it would be a... err "more fair fare".
..eliminate congestion! Stop creating the artificial need for more people being forced to travel into and through major urban areas. We are atthe point in time with technology and business that the "need" for over centralised choke points in commerce and government is being propped up out of a state of inertia mostly. The never ending construction on atlanta metros roads for example, tends to nullify any improvements because there's always some place that is a bottleneck. People moved to the suburbs to get away from the downtown area, it's time to really take the next stepand de centralise the urban areas. Eliminate the so called "need to travel" and you won't need as much "urban transit" schemes like expensive train systems and more roads. And just "getting to hartsfield" is nuts, they quite simply built the airport on the wrong side of town, they KNEW that in advance, the bulk of the traffic that uses hartsfield comes from the north side, and they knew that way back when, but it was a political decsion to put in on the southside, for some obvious reasons given the nature of atlanta politics. That created a severe artifical "congestion" in traffic patterns that didn't need to happen in the first place, but then they needed the "solution" of more rail and roads. Government is responsible for helping to create a problem that they then used as an excuse for 'the solution". It's cuckoo, Heglian, and obvious.
I say it would be a lot more cost effective if they really tried to get universal broadband out to everyone using these tax payers funds, rather than further insisiting on over crowding the cities, either from cars or mass transit of people. the way to eliminate congestion is to
And I apologise for the pun in the headline.
Virgina MagLev Project??
This comment does not represent the views or opinions of the user.
I've always been "pro car" but when I was working at the Pentagon I came across the most social form of public transportation I've encountered, SLUGGING.
The I-95 corridor from Quantico to DC has two HOV-3 lanes. Very few people actually use these lanes (a waste IMO) because it is hard to find friends that are willing to carpool with you.
Then, a long while back, people started parking their cars at the commuter lots and literally hitching a ride with total strangers up HOV lanes to DC.
By the time I started Slugging, it had evolved into it's own little system without any government influence. I would go to Potomac Mills mall in Woodbridge, VA and park at their commuter lot. I had a choice of getting a ride to 14th street in DC (next to a train station) or I could go directly to the Pentagon (which also has a train station). Everyone would patiently stand in line and wait for the next car to give them a ride.
Slugging lines became a community. People that broke in line (whether they be in cars or on foot) were scorned by the group. Everyone pretty much got along great. From my time there, I never heard of any crimes committed when slugging. I also got to know a lot of the people who were riding. Some of us became fast friends. It was also a good opportunity to network with others.
There were some basic rules for slugging that everyone stood by. For one, the driver couldn't charge you. That was against the law anyways. Secondly, any driver could refuse to pick you up, though I never saw this happen. Riders could also refuse to ride with any driver. That made sense because some of those cars were crap.
There were many funny stories I could tell during my two years of slugging. I can honestly say that I'd do it again. It really was a fine example of simply living and getting along with your fellow human being.
If you live in the DC area, you can find out more by visiting http://www.slug-lines.com/ They even have a lost and found if you leave something in your drivers car. I actually had the chance to return a guys laptop that he left in my car. We are still friends today.
IMO, this is just one more fine example of how good man CAN be.
cheers
There is nothing inherently safe about liberty. That's why so many people died protecting it.
Why? For speed?
Conventional trains routinely hit 320 km/h FOR LONG STRETCHES AND DURATIONS (not just for 10km portion out of a 700 km journey), and have gone as fast as 515 km/h in tests.
The sheer complexity of the switches (*) guarantees that the resulting network will be much less flexible than an ordinary conventional high-speed rail whose switches are of the ultra-simple time-tested conventional design.
What does speed gives you? Since the energy expenditure squares each time the speed is doubled, you soon hit a wall where the energy efficiency drops well below an aircraft.
For example, a 1200 km trip (New-York_Chicago) Speed time saved* Energy How much more than
100 12 10000 at 100 km/h
200 6 6 40000 4 times
300 4 2 90000 9 times
400 3 1 160000 16 times
500 2.4 0.6 250000 25 times
600 2 0.4 360000 36 times
700 1.71 0.29 490000 49 times
* from previous time Fucking slashcode that won't let PRE pass. Fuck it (and cowboy neal too, at the same time).
So, each time you increase speed by 100 km/h, your energy use soars so much that for saving a paltry quarter-hour, you spend 13 times more energy than needed to go at 100 km/h!!!
This is the reason french TGVs only run at 300 km/h. They are designed for 400 km/h and routinely hit 450 km/h for demos but running them at 400 km/h would be too expensive for the tiny amount if time gained.
A high-speed maglev runs at the surface, where the air resistance is waaaaay much higher than for an aircraft at 35,000 feet. So the energy expenditure per seat IS GOING TO BE HIGHER than an airplane!
Even though the speed of sound is much higher on the ground than at 60,000 feet (where Concorde used to fly), 1000 km/h maglev trains will need very long viaducts and tunnels to avoid becoming high-speed stomach wrenching roller-coaster rides.
The only way a maglev could be useful is running within an evacuated tunnel in a long journey.
In theory, the trains could run at the orbital speed of the altitude they are; energy expenditure would then be zero (all you'd need is to accelerate the train to speed, and you'd recover most of that energy by decellerating it at destination). But the costs of digging tunnels that would be so perfectly aligned, immune to geological havoc (crossing from one tectonic plate to another isn't really a walk in the park) and to keep the thing perfectly evacuated would likely be prohibitive (and maintenance guys would need to work in spacesuits...). Such money should be spent instead for a space elevator.
Would a maglev train really be back on track?
Idle hands are the devil's workshop, but idle minds are much worse
That's it, I'm definitely getting way too much spam.
At first glance, I was wondering what he heck kind of product viagra maglev was, and who would buy into such a thing.
It dates back to the wild west days, back then there was so much free to cheep land that people would just pick a spot far from everyone (more land for themselfs and safer from outlaws) when they needed things from town they get on thier horse and travel a few days to town. very few people lived in the towns becouse of the cost or need if you were a rancher what point would there be. the result was a very spread out areas, when cars showed up land was still very spred out that even if you worked in town it was and still is much cheaper to live far from town and buy a car. all this happend before masstransit was around. Trains were basicly used for transport of goods and for long distance travel.
I, for one, welcome our new moderator overlords
Yamanishi Maglev Overview
As an outer New York City resident , I've been riding the bus, subway, and railroads for ten years now. First to get to school, then to my job. Recently I got a car, and I've reached an epiphany.
There is no toll bridge or road that I won't cross, no traffic jam that I won't bear, no gas tax that I won't accept, and no garaging fee that I will not pay so that I never have to take public transportation ever again.
In my car I control the comfort level, the climate, the music or radio that is played (or not played), the passengers that are picked up, the route that is chosen, the speed that is used, the stops along the way.
Gone are the class-loads of students who get on, headphones on full blast, who still try to have a conversation so they need to shout to hear each other. Gone are the old people who could do an entire day of shopping at a department store and carry their bags onto the train, but still demand that you give up your seat because they're too weak to stand. Gone are the pan-handlers who run a gimmick hoping for some spare change.
Hello liberating highways, drive-throughs, beautiful bridges, awe-inspiring tunnels, sprawling landscapes, incredible cityscapes, and the world flying by on fast-forward.
Hello, great America. I want to drive you just thinking about you. And I'll pick up a caramel Macchiato along the way.
Fuck public transportation.
As a resident of Virginia, I want my money back. Or I just want it spent on something worthwhile. Like finishing the dulles railway, or improving the tracks for Acella. $14 Million spent on a one kilometer track in a rural university. Somebody got a huge kickback off of this one.
--WooooHoooo--
of gas for my thirsty little car ssquishing Suburban.
Si vis pacem, para bellum! For evil to succeed good men need only do nothing!
Unfortunately everybody seems to think it would be more effective to slap 2 or 4 more lanes onto the road. Cutting bigger and bigger swaths out of the forest, of course. The area around Idaho Springs would be a bottleneck, so I guess it'd be time to blast more of the hills and cliffs away, too. What happens when these lanes are full too? It's a bit harder to add lanes than it is to add train cars, or to have the trains run more often.
TO BUY A NEW CAR WOULD MAKE YOU SEXUALLY ATTRACTIVE.
I don't want to se another penny of public money poured into "Developing" this "Already-proven technology." A quick look at the history of railroad-building shows that non-public railroads were and are built to haul freight and that passengers are a secondary consideration, if they are considered at all. In Europe, where railroads quickly became a state monopoly, passenger service was promoted because it gave the legislators something they could brag about and whose cost their constituents would presumably support. Or, they were built for military purposes like the Prussian State Railways in the 1850s-1860s.
Maglev has no discernible future as a commercial proposition if conventional rail can go as fast. No one seems to know how to interline freight on to or off of maglev from conventional rail. Changing from another mode and then back again eats up the profit earned from speed (if any, this is freight we are talking about, after all.) Further, if a railroad train loses power, the train stops, almost always upright on its rails. If a maglev train loses power, the train will not "Coast" to a stop! The heirs and assigns of the purple jelly that used to be its passengers will sue that line out of business and no insuror will want to take the risk of insuring maglev. It seems they have come to this conclusion already. Private maglev companies won't exist or if they do they won't survive the first failure of a train or a track segment.
Bottom line: everyone likes tech and wants a chance to play with the toys. Many want to see this technology pursued, but no one seems to want to invest substantial private money in it. Suggest the maglev enthusiasts turn their energies to finding out what free-market forces are at work and why, and address the issues that that investigation turns up. I suggest that that is the best way to save maglev. It may be the only way.
Japan is roughly the size of California and has four times the population. Trains work great in areas where everyone has access to them. The problem in the US is that people are much more distributed. There are six cities in the US where trains are cheaper than buses (off the top of my head, I think that they are New York, LA, Chicago, Baltimore, Miami, and Philadelphia). This is ignoring subsidies, just cost per passenger/mile.
In Japan, trains make sense. They run in areas that can support them. In the US, they mostly do not. Most of us do not live in areas that can support them.
Trains are subsidized too. The government often pays for the track (particularly for commuter trains).
"Increasing the cost of fuel makes the true cost apparant to the comsumer"
Reducing the amount of sunlight a tropical rainforest gets will wipe out many species and those that rely on them. Vast numbers will die off.
While polar bears and killer whales are marvels of efficiency there sure are a lot fewer species in terms of numbers and diversity in the Arctic.
I'm not in the USA but there are reasons why the US can sustain all those companies making silly stuff like USD400 yoyos, fringe plastic toys. Low energy costs is one of them - you can ship junk further and still make money - larger potential market.
Why is the US in Iraq? Why are they _installing_ some outsiders as Government? Why are they _actively_ creating chaos? They're not that stupid (they're arrogant though given the half-baked lies they spout - don't even bother to make up good reasons).
Cheap energy.
>>(And I apologise for the pun in the headline.)
Isn't the point of MagLev that it's NOT on-track?
"Suggest the maglev enthusiasts turn their energies to finding out what free-market forces are at work and why, and address the issues that that investigation turns up."
In the case of long-distance passenger service there is no free market, and hasn't been since the Romans started plowing roads across Europe with government denarii. The main competitors to passenger rail today, commercial air travel and interstate highways, are already heavily subsidised. Why is it that the US government is nearly required to pour trillions of dollars of tax money into building highways and airports, but people howl about the "free market" the moment someone wants to invest tax dollars in rail?
0 1 - just my two bits
Similar maglevs have been built. Birmingham Airport had one from the mid 1980s to 1995. It was too hard to maintain, and was replaced with a cable-driven system.
Even as a pork program, the Old Dominion University system sucks. Better taxpayer-supported overpriced transit systems have been built at Southern universities. The Morgantown, West Virginia Group Rapid Transit System is a futuristic system started during the Nixon administration and opened in 1975. It's automated, with 3.6 miles of line, five stations, and little eight-person cars. It's an advanced system; all stations are "offline", and cars pull off the main line to stop at stations, rather than blocking the main tracks. It actually works, but it's way overbuilt for the usage it gets.
He said "apologise" instead of "apologize." This means that the poster is not American, as he claims, and is in fact just another Brit/Euro trying to mock the US. Pathetic.
And why is the US in the MAGLEV research business? Other countries have already done a lot more research, we can just work with them. Eh, I don't work for the Gov't, so I guess it'll neer make sense.
Virgina MagLev Project??
No, silly. "Back on track." Titty-boom! Although the misspelling of Virginia is an unintended joke.
In the 19th century, the big, lightly populated space between the US East and West Coasts was settled largely by people riding on/in:
a) Horses
b) Airplanes
c) SUV's
d) Trains
e) Ships
Please read the question carefully. There is only one correct answer.
The correlation between ignorance of statistics and using "correlation is not causation" as an argument is close to 1.
and it's great to hear because it's just an eyesore and something to stand under when it rains. The wooden scaffolding is warped but most of the stations are built, just needs to be finished.
... hardly anybody will ever ride. Ever seen the multi-million dollar boondoggle in Seattle? Emptier than the 'michael's cranium.
KEEP THE LEFTIST ADVOCACY TO YOUR OWN SITE, DUDE...
Maglev trains, as neat as they may be, will need to have a new set of tracks built for them. This is a course of a costly endeavor. As other posters have pointed out a cost-benefit compared to high speed conventional wheel trains is probably not worth. The cost is not in the new tracks the maglev trains will need but in the cost of acquiring the land. Which will become more expensive as it gets into cities, tunneling under ground is more expensive than buying land on the surface. Dedicated high-speed train lines in Japan and Europe, are expensive to maintain. American commuter train lines regular share the track with freight trains. usually the freight train companies owner that tracked and charge the commuter trains for the use. The American government has simply not invested the money needed in track infrastructure, to make trains a success. The problems of the Accela line between Boston and New York, because of lack of track maintenance and sharing of the rail bed with Metro-North. The Boston to Maine route, it's been slowed because the owners of the track, not Amtrak, say that they're real bad cannot safely handle the increase speed that the engine is capable. I believe that Americans do not realize that cost of airports and roads are subsidized to tax dollars yet they are resistant to subsidizing trains to reach similar extent. I should try to find a comparison of subsidy dollars received by the airlines and airports receive per passenger mile compared to trains. Remember the billions given to the airlines after 9-11 and they still can't turn a profit.
I for one welcome our auto-banning overlords.
I believe the "true cost" to be about $17 less than the fare. Auto infrastructure can be largely funded by existing fuel tax. Beware these true cost figures in transportation.Especially when touted by the "smart growth" new urbanism crowd we used to have a name for them before "progressive" it was totalitarian socialist or fascist. They are wrong about transportation and they know it they want to impose social/political control by traffic engineering-eliminating single family dwellings for all but elites for example.
That's what unions are for, so you DON'T have to accept poverty level wages. You negotiate with increasing your productivity, working with management to institute changes that you can see will be of a benefit to all concerned, and by collective bargaining with your peers.
We don't have a real economic crisis, what we have is a totally skewed artificially distorted economic system now that is geared primarily to re-arrange productive *wealth ownership* into fewer and fewer hands, leaving "the poor" as scapegoats and in a position to have their vote "bought" by politicians and political parties who promise them "free money" taken from other people, whom themselves are poor or at best middle class. Very wealthy people pay little in real taxes, what with incorporating, saying their vehicles are the corporations, their buidlings, a lot of times their homes, using trusts, etc, it's nuts. they emply legions of accountants and lawyers to hide and obfuscate really what they make and got. We could reduce that too easily with quid pro quo tariffs and a modest national sales tax, so no one has to dodge them, and everyone has to pay *something*.
I think it's better to just make a better wage, and so far, unions have shown that is the best technique as long as they can stay real in their expectations. Same goes for management, just stay real, and things will go along a lot smoother.
In fact, I think it would be cool if all these white collar IT folks formed an INTERNATIONAL white collar union, so that no one would be in danger of getting shafted, but everyone could work and make a living wage. different subject, but I think the idea has some merit to it.
The roads are "subsidized" by the fuel tax, about as cost effective and fair as can be arranged, IMO. Original cost was heavily subsidised of course, primarily to serve as national defense roads (the interstates) and because the US is just such a big country geographically, and because we buiklt cars here early on in mass quantities and we had a lot of handy cheap oil. connections, just happened ais all, we are an individual vehicle centered society, despite what a few million daily train commuters think, they are in a severe minority in this nation. And when we use the roads more, we buy more fuel, your "road fees" go up proportionately. Seems fair. Myself, I am poor, live rural, just yesterday I was discussing with my girlfriend to reduce our trips "to town" to once every two weeks instead of once a week, to save gas and wear and tear on the old vehicle. It's getting to that point now. Sorta scary really, to do that to save 10$ because 10$ is critical.
I also think all roads need to have clear cut divisions for types of traffic, commercial trucks, passenger vehicles, wheeled transport human powered, and pedestrian, as much as possible to give a CHOICE on travel. that would help as well I think. I myself long time ago gave up bicylcing very much because it just got too stupid and dangerous in town, and this is from someone who used to own a bicycle shop. Sucks. but reality for a lot of people because the roads are setup for motor vehicles ONLY.
Back to wages, engage in collective bargaining, negotiate yourself a living wage. Picking some number out of the air for a minimum wage hasn't worked, although granted it's an attempt, and I think over all it has more benefits than not, but beyond that-unionize. It works once your union is large enough. You get "power" then. Georgia in particular is woefully lacking and quite dismal in effective unions, part of the lower average wages here are from that very reason, and since the mid 90's, quite realistically, the HUGE influx of totally illegal aliens has diluted the blue collar pool of workers to such an extent that it has caused massive problems, not only with wages dropping, but with property taxes rising for building new and unnecessary schools, the bankrupting of most local hospitals, the increases needed in the various state agencies like police and fire, and etc. Wages drop, cost
USians aren't really any more or less educated than most of europe. Heck, the US probably spends more money on education that any other country in the world. Is everyone who doesn't agree with you "less educated". If so I'd sure hate to be your neighbor, and you call other people pig headed!
The "reliance" on foreign scientists is because the US, even after 9/11 and its aftermath, is still a very open and accepting society with very diverse population, probably due to its history as an imigrant nation. Come to think of it, most of those "foreign scientists" were educated in the US, so it's not entirely illogical that they might work there.
I don't know where you got your "60% without healthcare" statistic, but that's not right either. The statistic that is bantered about is "49 million american's without health insurance". But that isn't anywhere near 60% of a population of 290 million. Of not having private insurance doesn't necessarily mean you don't have access to healthcare either, but either way your numbers are way off.
Oh yes, it was the US that destabilized Venezuela, not the president (chavez) who violated the constituion, murdered judges, and threw the country into civil war. Yes, it was all the fault of the US for buying oil from them. If they did have that money the country would be so much better off. (note the dripping sarcasm).
And fankly, I don't think most Iraqi's are mad about the 'mericans "running their cars all the time".
----- Question authority, but not ours. Hate the man, but we're not him.
This is a university - the potential of maglev technology is completely wasted.
The speed difference over a conventional train (or bus) is neglible, while the costs are much higher.
An on campus train never gets the chance to reach high speed.
wasn't sure if it was really was a train of some kind. thought maybe it was a piece of modern art or some kind of political statement because i've never seen the thing move
I like telecommuting as a way to avoid commuting. I still work for the same huge company I used to work for, and I spent five years taking the train into San Francisco, and a couple years driving to San Jose (15 minute drive vs. 45 minutes for train connections), and it's nice to only need to go to the office once or twice a week.
Bill Stewart
New Fast-Compression-only CPR http://preview.tinyurl.com/dy575ks
You should try insulting people more often. Calling your opponent a moron is a highly effective means of persuasion!
But trains can be done right. Visit Switzerland or Germany, or even France once in a while.
I've ridden trains in Germany, and they're very nice. But what does that prove? People are always touting the efficiency of European public transporation vs. American, and smugly concluding that something is wrong with Americans. But it has little to do with policy and everything to do with population density. Would the trains in Germany be such an effective means of transportation if it had 1/8 its current population density? You'd need the same amount of track, and nearly the same labor costs (you'd still need to run the trains at the same frequency or else people would find the schedules too inconvenient and use other means), but you'd have 1/8 the revenue.
Forgot to mention - at least in the US, zoning laws that are designed to keep factories and residential areas far apart guarantee that people need to commute. You can't walk to work at a factory if you're not allowed to live near it. White-collar office work has less problem with that, though many cities try to micromanage the locations of office complexes and residential areas, but medium-large cities usually at least have enough office concentration to make transit like trains and busses semi-workable. The other way to make transit work well is to have housing that's concentrated - but suburbs generally don't do that well, and big cities like San Francisco micromanage it to the extent that it's much harder and more expensive to build than it should be, and high-density housing generally means annoyingly small housing, which is bad enough if you don't have kids and worse it you do. It's also much easier to locate a one-worker family close to work than a two-worker family. While I was commuting an hour each way by train, my wife had a 10-minute drive...
Bill Stewart
New Fast-Compression-only CPR http://preview.tinyurl.com/dy575ks
In some traditional societies, farms were inherited by the oldest son, so any younger sons that lived had to find other jobs like soldiering or priesthood or occasionally crafts like blacksmithing, or else go find new farm country to move into. In other societies, the farm got split up among the sons (or sometimes sons and daughters), so the farmland per family got smaller and smaller, leading to grinding poverty and increased risk of famine. Societies that did herding rather than grain-growing had an easier time, as long as there was enough pasture land available, either to be nomads or relatively stable locations. But we've filled up most of the locations for new farmland, except for destroying the rest of the rainforest or finding better irrigation techniques. And modern medicine cut down death rates for a long time before modern birth control started to do much about birth rates, and being a nun or monk isn't as popular as it used to be, so it's time for the kids to move to the city.
Bill Stewart
New Fast-Compression-only CPR http://preview.tinyurl.com/dy575ks
The real subsidies that affect the US preference for cars as opposed to trains are socialized roadbuilding. The public wants its roads, and any time you build more roads, making commuting easier, you make more housing development possible because more people can now live where you built the roads, and once a new area is opened up for housing, it tends to build more houses than the roads can really support, so there's more pressure to make the roads bigger. Residential streets in suburban land developments are essentially funded as part of the costs of building the houses, either explicitly or indirectly, but the regional connector roads get heavily subsidized. And especially as most of the US economy moves to a white-collar services model and stops being manufacturing-oriented, this also makes it easier for offices to move out of the core cities, decreasing the reasons for people to live downtown. Sometimes they go to edge cities, sometimes to quasi-residential areas.
Bill Stewart
New Fast-Compression-only CPR http://preview.tinyurl.com/dy575ks
Monorails and old-fashioned elevated trains have the theoretical advantage that they're not competing with cars for road space. In practice, monorails are a cool way to ride to Disney World, but haven't been very useful beyond that. Real maglev developments will need to get right-of-way that's currently mostly used by old-fashioned trains, so unless they can share the same track space, or fit next to the older train tracks, deployment is impractical and expensive in any place that has the population density for them to be interesting. Here in San Francisco, we have a similar problem with BART - the BART trains use a wider track for stability, and that guarantees that they can't share right-of-way with regular freight trains, so they need huge amounts of money to get their own right-of-way. (Some cynics would argue, after watching the BART system operate, that spending huge amounts of money is its primary reason for existence.) By contrast, the Caltrain commuter trains that go up the penninsula from Silicon Valley to San Francisco share tracks with the regular freight trains, so their major costs are just operating the equipment, not buying land after it's become expensive.
Bill Stewart
New Fast-Compression-only CPR http://preview.tinyurl.com/dy575ks
The guy who posted this is a fool. The "technological" benefit is rubbish, and people like me would much rather save their money and buy their own cars to go anywhere they want instead of paying out the ass in more taxes so that this self-righteous parasite can take a ride on the Academia Boondoggle Express.
...THAT high over the fare they charge. sheesh! where'd you get that one? Just wondering is all, I know they don't charge what it costs, but the only figures I ever heard were about a buck or so under.
As to your other point, couldn't agree more, various wildlands project scams and agenda 21..umm, agendas and whatnot, yep, way ahead of you there. the elites want a BIG reduction in the planets population, and when that is complete they want a global two class society that will be in essence techno fuedalism. They are doing all they can to destroy any way to make a living in the rural areas,except as corporate slaves to a few multinationals, then get people squished into "controlled urban corridors" where they can be monitored and used as the elites see fit..
Eventually I know it's going to come to a fight, and before then they will unleash more phony "terrorist" attacks, so that they can step in with their "final solution".
sucks, but there ya go.
zogger
... it was put on the southside for a variety of reasons, and they knew in advance that the northern suburbs were going to grow faster. And what you said about airports is true, think about that again, WHY did they put it where it got put? Who was over there in that area before? Lotta po bros that's who, not much political or economic power-at that time.
I mean, this has been discussed just so many times on atlanta TV and talk radio there and in the news. There's alos been a lot of talk about building a new airport north of the city, etc, but it's way too expensive now, I doubt they'll do it anytime in the foreseable future, but then again I haven't followed atlanta news all that much for around 5 years now either, it could be in the planning stages now for all I know. I live closer to choochoo vile in TN than atlanta and get their TV statiosn more clearly, so that's what I watch now.
I am a stundent at Old Dominion. One of my professors in the Aero Dept who was burdened with helping manage this project refers to it as "the stupid train." According to him, it hasn't been just contractual problems holding up the project, there have also been some engineering challenges... but I can't remember the details. Something about track vibration, as I recall.
As someone else pointed out, it's a straight shot for only 3/4 mile. I can't for the life of me understand who thought a MagLev train was right for this project. MagLev's only make economic sense for long distance, high-speed runs, where the decreased friction boosts their efficiency. This silly thing only runs a few blocks between center campus and some of the outlying student housing. It will NEVER approach a speed where it will become efficient.
Just think of the power required to hold the damn thing up while it coasts along at maybe 25-30 mph. This thing is not only sucking huge amounts of money now, it'll continues to do so way into the future. But like most pork-barrel projects, once it's been started, people are reluctant to cut their losses, no matter how wasteful or stupid it is.
I recall China built a maglev running between Shanghai and its airport. That makes a bit more sense... several miles, with only stops at the ends. I wonder how its doing...
I go to ODU right now, and you know what I'd appreciate? I'd appreciate it if they moved the fucking massive blockades on the sidewalk that they've constructed so I can get to class instead of walking my elbow to get to my ass. I'd also like it if they fucking made one of these all the way out to the beach, because currently the drive costs a few bucks worth of gas and the traffic sucks. AIM:scallion9000
Sig & Below
Yuck Fou
First, I wouldn't say it is in a rural area. There is a large population in our region. We suffer from sprawl pretty badly, but the figures say we have more technology jobs in Southeastern Virginia than in the state's capital region, Richmond. Norfolk is next to Virginia Beach (400k), Portsmouth, Suffolk, Hampton, Newport News, Chesapeake and others. At least 1.5mil, if not more.
FROM WHAT I UNDERSTAND, the maglev system worked when it was in Flordia on the test track, because the rails were on the ground. There are videos on the American Maglev site of it moving before the ODU system was put together. Once the ODU setup was constructed, they hit a snag. The rail flexes from the weight, and the system tries to adjust for it by adjusting power to magnets, which causes the rail to react, which starts an oscillation loop or something. Ooops.
The system here is opposite from the German Transrapid system (which is totally bad ass, btw). The guideway in the German system is more intelligent / has electromagnets / something, where as the one at ODU most of the guts are in the actual cars. This means the guideway is much cheaper to deploy. If you have ever seen it, the guideway is pretty frigging narrow, it would be easier to handle right of ways for such a thing.
It is a shame the contractors haven't been paid, and it is a shame it hasn't gotten further. From what I understand they are finally getting their hands on the money. It would be interesting to see a cost break down.
If you think about it, 14 million in what could be a better transportation solution for cities is chump change. Companies spend $3 million on blanket Windows software licenses. The theory is if/when it works it could spawn a new industry and our region could gain new businesses that support it.
People complain about the money going to the monorail, yet they don't complain about their tax money going to schools where many of the students are from out of country and leave when they are done with their education. Granted there are private interests working here, but I fail to understand the hatred for the creation of something new and something better.
Lastly, they are started to talk about this stupid light rail stuff here, that is little trollys that run on conventional rails. Lame, gradings obstruct traffic, they are slow. Elevated maglev is the answer! HOORAY!
Southeastern Virginia REPRESENT!
How about auto-banning goatse posters?
Fuck your sanctimonious holier-than-thou bullshit.
It's the poor who end up in the outer suburbs of the urban sprawl in Sydney, while the wealthy are moving in yuppifying the formerlly working class slums of the inner-city. Of course this is more a trend than an out-right rule, but's it's a trend that's been going on since the 70's
It's gotten to the point that 1 bedroom single level row houses in Glebe are worth over AU$500,000, while 2 storey terrace houses in Paddington are worth over AU$2,000,000. Yet in the 70's when the former rent controlled slum terraces of the Coopers family 99 year leases in Paddo & Ultimo were sold off, they only went for between AU$5000 & AU$20,000 each.
This real estate boom spread outwards into the suburbs eventually too, making the inner-west suburbs like Haberfield boom, as trendies from the inner-dity settle down to have a child &/or dog. Things have gotten to the point that many young couples have moved to commuter/satellite towns on the Central Coast, Illawarra & Blue Montains, rather than live in the outer-western suburbs of Sydney's urban sprawl.
Let us hope that this sets a precedent to Americans to not litigate ourselves out of the science and technology markets due to petty disagreements and greed.
I live in Virginia, more to the point I have passed the maglev site numerous times. The project has been held up due to it needing to run straight through a residential area. Not to mention that the project was put on hold to build the new Constant Convocation Center. The maglev project needed time to buy out those property owners. Sad thing is, like all mass transportation here it won't be used enough to make the project worth it in the long run.
I am Bennett Haselton! I am Bennett Haselton!