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Las Vegas Monorail Finally Ready To Open
doormat writes "The Las Vegas monorail is finally set to open to the public on July 15th! The project has had some problems - it was originally scheduled to open in March. The first part of the monorail, which uses Bombardier M-VI train vehicles, 'a derivative of the famous Walt Disney World Mark VI trains', is 4 miles long and connects several casinos on the east side of the Las Vegas Strip (see map, QT video), as well as the Las Vegas Convention Center (Home to CES, NAB, Networld+Interop and what was Comdex). Future phases seek to expand the monorail to downtown to the North, the west side of the strip, and eventually the University and the airport (which the taxicab and limo groups fight tooth and nail). I swear it's the strip's only choice... throw up your hands and raise your voice! Monorail, Monorail, Monorail! Mono... D'oh!"
I wonder if they broke into song and dance at the annoucment of its construction
They just better have a damn good conductor.
Wow, could it cost a little bit more? $3 a ride! $40 for 3 days? No week pass? Mono d'oh indeed.
I hope they use a little more discression in hiring the operator than the springfield monorail.
I had to do a double-take when I read this the first time. I thought it said the train itself was 4 miles long...
I've always wondered why the US hasn't built up their mass transit abilities on the national level. We have subways in various towns but none of them link together and we don't have any of the long rail lines like they do in Germany or Japan. I also feel safe in saying the rail road is pretty shitty in compairson to other countries. I wonder if this is because as Americans we demand the right and excuse to use cars or if we have no other option right now.
We also got our first light rail line in Minnesota, the Hiawatha Line. Also driven with Bombardier trains of an original design.
I took some pictures of the opening here.
96,000 people tried out the line last weekend during its debut!
-- dieman - Scott Dier
Until some guys gets run over by the Monorail in CSI I'm not even going to acknowledge it.
If not, why bother? The only vehicles in Vegas I'm interested in getting in are ones leaving that hellhole as soon as freakin' possible. Yes, I hate that city.
That being said, I was just there (for the 4th time in 5 years... yeah I know) a month ago and the new monorail looked like it would sure beat walking down the strip in the 110 degree heat.
Stupid people make stupid things profitable.
It's time to build an elevator to nowhere
Also, they should Open Source this POS
Ummm... huh?
I hope you mean only releasing the source code for those who would like to see it, and not that you want the code developed according to the usual open source models.
Developing a system to control a vehicle carrying people is one thing that, at least i for one think, should be done by a set of well coordinated group of professionals.
There's a university in Las Vegas? And I thought UPenn was a party school...
!Por favor man tenga se alejado de las puertas!
Best answer I heard was from an old guy at a poker table at the palms. His take on the people in charge of the project: "They're morons! MORONS!!!" Viva las vegas!
Spell cheek you've failed me four the last thyme!
Will there be slot machines on the trains?
Much like BART had all kinds of computer problems when it first went online. These things were not totally unanticipated. This is "new" tech, in the sense that Las Vegas Monorail will be the first mass-transit application of "driverless" rail systems anywhere in the United States (BART comes close, but somebody still pushes the "close door" button).
Yes, it's "old" 70's (well, really, 50's, as it differs very little from the original Alweg designs that run on Seattle and Anaheim trackage) technology. However, buses are, what, 30's technology? Light rail vehicles, also, are nothing more than the modern version of the 1910's streetcars.
In transit systems, very little changes.. because it dosen't have to. The fundamental job of getting people from one place to another across town is a simple one: it dosen't need maglev. The physics of rubber tires on a concrete "roadway" are well understood. Construction techniques required to build the Las Vegas Monorail are essentially no different than what was needed to build I-215: once you know how to pour concrete, it doesn't matter if you're building a highway for cars or a guideway for a monorail.
Personally, I can't wait. Monorail technology is a good transit solution: clean and quiet, with the potential to be cheap and easily maintained. Hopefully, Las Vegas Monorail will prove out as good as the monorail enthusiasts (like myself) have been saying it will.
When I went to Florida, I had to catch a plane from Orlando airport, so I caught a bus to 'airport boulevard' - having been told it was near the airport. It was in the middle of nowhere and there was no chance of hailing a cab (even if as a poor student, I could have afforded one), so I walked for 90 minutes in the midday sun until I got to my flight - with 15 minutes to spare.
I had been told I was on the right bus, but there didn't seem to be a bus stop in the entire airport. I was completely incredulous. Is this the reason why?
So much for the free market and consumer choice.
Ogdenville, North Haverbrook, and Brockway enjoy the same monorail service Las Vegas is gonna get. You go Vegas!!!!.
Of course any mishaps around the monorail will remain secret cause what happens in vegas stays in vegas.
that this monorail will take you directly from the center of a casino, to the center of many other casinos, via routes that pass through casinos.
In order to get to any of the stations, you'll need to walk through 3 miles of casinos. In order to buy tickets, you'll need to walk through 4 miles of casinos. If you're drunk and gambling, tickets are free.
-... ---
Like most public transportation projects I've been on, this one is pretty useless. You can't go from the airport to the hotel...what's the point? The system is similarly useless to anyone who actually *lives* in Vegas. Los Angeles authorities thought it would be a good idea to build some trains...they don't go anywhere that you'd ever want to go. It doesn't connect to the airport because the taxicab union lobbied against it. The Houston rail "system" is similarly pointless. Atlanta's isn't bad, mostly because union opposition was overcome and it actually connects to the airport.
Shutting down free speech with violence isn't fighting fascism. It IS fascism!
Now I'll make others bite my dust while I do my wardriving contest riding the monorail during defcon 12.
This is a solution for getting people to and from Casino's to lose more money as quick as possible.
Do you even know how maglev works? Why on earth would you think that maglev would be
a: efficient
b: affordable
or c: even doable in a 4 mile stretch?
"Oooh!. Maglev! Let's do that!" Try to get beyond the buzzwords.
How can you say "finally"? I was there like 2 years ago and they haven't even started.
Its a miracle.
I'm glad I live in a real city: Chicago.
The obligatory Simpsons reference/joke made in the the actual story, before the first comment is even posted? Thought I'd never see the day... ;)
...cars are essentially the same technology from almost 100 years ago [okay, I admit that I don't know my tech & history], but you still don't see people yawning & sighing about that. Instead they line up on freeways demanding wider roads.
Hey Las Vegas! I'm happy for you.
testing out my trending skills
Amtrak?
theres a concept.
You'll be given cushy jobs!
Wasn't supposed to be a solution for everybody. It was, however, supposed to be a solution for the Strip and Convention Center.
Being as the vast majority of the Las Vegas economy seems to revolve around liberating cash from tourists, looks like a good thing to me.
Besides, that $654 million dollars came entirely from the private sector, through direct financial contributions and bonds. The taxpayers of Clark County aren't paying for it, so why the hell are you bitching?
The full text of this article from The Economist follows. The original content is subscriber-only; it is reproduced here in the hope and expectation that you will find it useful.
----
High-speed rail
Trop peu, trop tard, trop Amtrak
Aug 9th 2001 | CHICAGO
From The Economist print edition
Fast trains may be coming to the mid-west--and stopping too often
THE roads are clogged. The airports are worse. Might fast trains provide relief for America's frustrated travellers? A coalition of nine mid-western states has plans for a rail system that would whisk travellers between the region's big cities at high speeds and connect them to points beyond with a network of slower trains and buses. Strangely enough, Congress, which would have to pay much of the cost, is warming to the idea.
The Midwest Regional Rail Initiative (MWRRI) is a joint venture between nine state transport agencies, the Amtrak rail system and the Federal Railroad Administration. The coalition has unveiled detailed plans and cost estimates for a 3,000-mile rail system with Chicago as its hub that would connect cities such as Detroit, Milwaukee, St Louis and Minneapolis at speeds of up to 110 miles per hour (some 50-75mph slower than French or Japanese trains, but enough to wow the mid-west).
[Image]
Randy Wade at Wisconsin's Department of Transportation claims that the region is ideally suited for high-speed rail. Over distances of several hundred miles, such as the 280-mile trip from Chicago to Detroit, rail is potentially faster, more comfortable and more productive than car travel. It should be cheaper than flying and delivers passengers into the city centre, rather than to distant airports. And cities in the mid-west are already connected by freight rail lines that can be upgraded to accommodate faster trains. MWRRI thinks that a well-run system could attract nearly 10m riders a year by 2010.
Such transport visions are two a penny and often worth as much (ask any Eurotunnel shareholder). The General Accounting Office recently estimated the cost of a national high-speed system to be $50 billion-70 billion. But both the Senate and the House are considering bills that would enable Amtrak, America's quasi-public passenger rail agency, to issue up to $12 billion in bonds to pay for capital improvements in 11 designated high-speed rail corridors. The bonds would not pay interest; bondholders would receive federal income-tax credits instead.
Such stealth subsidies are unlikely to irritate voters, impatient with traffic jams and cancelled flights. "You can't imagine congestion getting better anywhere--ever," says Mr Wade. Tom Daschle and Trent Lott, the Democratic and Republican leaders, are among the bill's 51 co-sponsors in the Senate. The White House has not taken a position yet; but, while he was governor of Texas, George Bush cut the ribbon when Amtrak began running the Texas Eagle from San Antonio to Chicago.
The bill making its way through Congress would provide a down-payment on the MWRRI plan, which can be built step by step. The full system will need lots more money, to pay among other things for the trains and improved infrastructure. Even supporters concede that high-speed rail would do well to cover its operating costs, never mind the capital investment. Politicians will have to be sold on the social benefits of getting Americans off the highways and runways.
Which they might be, except for the most potent enemy of passenger rail in America: Amtrak itself. Critics of federal spending for high-speed rail do not oppose the idea in principle; they just think that giving Amtrak control over something like $12 billion in capital spending is insane.
America's passenger rail system, which was deregulated in 1997, is supposed to cover its operating costs by December
Finally, something to put Las Vegas on the maps! :-)
Since when has this country used intellectual elite as a pejorative term?
Also, they should Open Source this POS
Agreed. If this was OSS, we could all test this on our own Monorail test beds we have at home!
This is news for nerds, I'd rather read an article on just how maglev works(BTW, I do know a bit about it) rather than a 4 mile stretch of 30+ year old car on top of cement rail tech that's only purpose is to get people to Casino's a bit quicker.
The only thing mildly cool about this is it is driverless. But even that doesn't excite me much when you have grad students creating Volvo's that park themselves.
I think that's what he was referring to when he said:
I also feel safe in saying the rail road is pretty shitty in compairson to other countries.
Genius.
cause it's in the fucking write-up.
funny, we had the monrail episode on channel ten last night (sydney australia). No sh#t. I'd provide a link to prove it, but can't find an online tv guide that shows yesterdays programs. Anyone else in sydney want to verify it for me. Otherwise you can take my word for it.
4 /0 6/29/2223204&mode=nested&tid=106&tid=137&tid=185&t id=190
got fp the other day first time ever. now gotta get a story submit accepted and then my lifes ambitions have been met.
http://developers.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=0
if
"Please stand clear of the doors. Por favor, mantenganse alejados de las puertas."
o/~ All God's children shall be free in Pirates of the Caribbean, when we reach that Magic Kingdom in the sky... o/~
MONO = ONE
RAIL = RAIL
~jeff
Will Blaine control this Mono as well?
MONO = ONE
RAIL = RAIL
Redundant only applies to other posts, idiot.
Semi offtopic, but I just wanted to point out how cool it was that San Francisco has been buying up old classic trains from the early 20th century, refurbishing them, and actually have a great many of these near-antiques actually in service.
;)
I've seen some really cool classic cars from Italy, Germany, and a great old one from the Chicago 'el' train.
Very cool. Great history and better for the environment! Get rid of that awful SUV today!
It's reminding me of my old train set in my parent's basement. Ooh, must resist urge to fire up RR Tycoon
std::disclaimer<std::legalese> sig=new std::disclaimer; sig->dump(); delete sig;
Just like Kim Pedersen. Wired did a nice story on him a few months ago and now he's started the Monorail Society.
Cool!
Satanists get good grades too...suspiciously good grades
And let me say, "May the Force Be With You!"
Yeah. God forbid somebody is actually interested in technology that happens to be older, but underdeveloped.
Ya know, for a 70's-era invention, this TCP/IP thing is sure getting a lot of attention on slashdot.
He's not excited about the technology but by the fact that they are finally addressing the traffic problem on the strip. The cab companies have been fighting this because well, to get anywhere in Vegas you usually have to get a cab, and the traffic gets quite nasty on weekends.
BART is not driverless.
The SFO airport airrail thing is driverless.
The London Docklands Light Rail is driverless.
Since this was on last night, here of course is the song!
... What'd I say?
Lyle Lanley: Well, sir, there's nothing on earth Like a genuine, Bona fide, Electrified, Six-car Monorail!
Ned Flanders: Monorail!
Lyle Lanley: What's it called?
Patty+Selma: Monorail!
Lyle Lanley: That's right! Monorail!
[crowd chants `Monorail' softly and rhythmically]
Miss Hoover: I hear those things are awfully loud...
Lyle Lanley: It glides as softly as a cloud.
Apu: Is there a chance the track could bend?
Lyle Lanley: Not on your life, my Hindu friend.
Barney: What about us brain-dead slobs?
Lyle Lanley: You'll all be given cushy jobs.
Abe: Were you sent here by the devil?
Lyle Lanley: No, good sir, I'm on the level.
Wiggum: The ring came off my pudding can.
Lyle Lanley: Take my pen knife, my good man.
I swear it's Springfield's only choice...
Throw up your hands and raise your voice!
All: [singing] Monorail!
Lyle Lanley: What's it called?
All: Monorail!
Lyle Lanley: Once again...
All: Monorail!
Marge: But Main Street's still all cracked and broken...
Bart: Sorry, Mom, the mob has spoken!
All: [singing] Monorail! Monorail! Monorail! [big finish] Monorail!
Homer: Mono... D'oh!
Send lawyers, guns, and money!
Actually, Kim started the Monorail Society some years ago. The home-built monorail came well after.
To be scammed on your way to the casinos riding the monorail.
There would be a car where those who loose their shirts could stay for the night/day.
How casinos are gonna avoid high roller jumping from one casino to the other and miss the chance to take everything from them.
Those poles in the cars would be for more than hanging on.
There is gonna be a car for getting married and other to dissolve the marriage, would the train driver have a license to do matrimonies?.
An Elvis look alike on every car.
The magic tricks they are gonna play on you, here is your wallet now is not!!!.
Tom Jones playing what new pussy cat and let all the city hear it.
Instead of using guarding dogs, the tigers from Siegfried and Roy could make a living out of that and eat an asian tourist every now and then.
Distributing drugs along all the casinos, you just throw them out of the window with just one riding ticket.
Being poked in the eye with one of those exotic custumes.
The Las Vegas monorail is finally set to open to the public on July 15th!
is that redundant? i'm the first poster to say so, asshole.
This is perhaps one of the biggest positive aspects. A two-ride pass is less than $6, about the cab fare to go from, say, Caesars to the LVCC. I really see it as a tool for conventioneers. The only downside is that it goes right by the Sands Convention Center, but doesnt stop there.
The Doormat
If you're not outraged, then you're not paying attention.
They could have asked the people who did the London Docklands Light Rail system. They seem to have a functioning driverless system.
But what could a bunch of Europeans teach Mighty America, right?
> Anyone else in sydney want to verify it for me.
here's a link for ya
Screw you all! I'm off to the pub
I think it goes to show that when you think of this kind of rapid transit system, don't think "bus fare," which is usually cheaper. It may also be because these systems are not subsidized by local or state authorities, forcing them to charge higher fare. (though I'm not sure if this is true in either of these cases)
Wikipedia on BART:
The trains are computer-controlled and arrive on-time with regular accuracy. Drivers are present in case of unforeseen difficulties.
If you have other information, please correct the wikipedia entry.
-molo
Using your sig line to advertise for friends is lame.
On BART, the "driver" does nothing more than push a "close door" button. They are not in control of the train, except when the automation system fails (which when I worked there in the 80's was "often"). However, part of BART's design was to have a 100% automated system. The "driver" is there solely because of a concession to the transit operator's unions. 99% of the time, the BART operator is just passively sitting in his chair.. bored out of his tiny little mind.
SFO Airport SkyTrain is not, technically, a "mass transit" system, it is an airport peoplemover. Many airport peoplemovers are "driverless", including Denver's. I was speaking strictly of mass transit systems.
Docklands Light Rail isn't in the US. At least, last time I checked England was still part of the United Kingdom. Has something changed?
Dunno. Considering that BART was the first fully automated passenger rail system in the world, I guess Europe is stll learning from the US.
"Driverless" is an important test concept on the Las Vegas Monorail not because it couldn't "theoretically" be done in the US (many systems, like SF-MUNI, BART, the Chicago "El", and the LA Metro Red Line are fully or partially automated). Questions of liability prevent many systems from operating "driverless." Concerns of organized labor (this was BART's problem) prevented other systems from running "driverless."
The technology has existed for 30 years (see BART). Because LV Monorail was largely privately funded, they got to dictate terms a lot more than a lot of transit agencies get to.
Have you ever tried walking from one end of the strip to the other in the middle of summer? It takes forever to get anywhere by car or taxi, and the walk is WAY too long (especially when it's hot as hell outside).
Yeah, it doesn't get to the airport yet and has yet to cover the entire strip, but it's a start and will be a boon to many who regularly visit Vegas.
This post sponsored by Ninja Burger. "
In the image in the 2nd column, 10th row (image 56, file dscn2466.jpg), what is that "third rail" that's on the right and curves near the end used for? Our local light-rail here in the Santa Clara valley also has those at various points.
If you reply, do so only to what I explicitly wrote. If I didn't write it, don't assume or infer it.
... it terminates at the Las Vegas Hilton, better known to Slashdotters as the home of the Star Trek Experience. Don't forget to visit Quark's Bar, where you can order - shudder - "The Wrap Of Khan."
If you mod me down, I shall become more powerful than you can possibly imagine.
Responses to several comments here:
Monorail "track" is a lot more expensive to build per foot than light rail. That's the main reason Disney hasn't built any new monorail for a while, even when they moved all the parking a couple blocks away from the Anaheim park entrance.
There's no good way to evacuate an elevated monorail train in an emergency. Somewhere on the net I've read a copy of the procedures for the WDW monorail, which involves helping passengers slide down the curved windshield so they can walk along the beam to the nearest station. Yeah, right.
Say all you want about the lightrail system Los Angeles built. Fact is, it's far more popular than ever anticipated. Yeah, it goes through some pretty scary neighborhoods. But the point is to make it possible for people who live there to get into downtown where the jobs are. It's worked pretty well. And the Metrolink extensions do take some of the commuter burden off the Orange County to LA freeways.
"In 2004 the Las Vegas Strip corridor will see the opening of the first totally automated M-VI monorail system."
I sure don't want to be there when somebody gets caught in the crack between the train and the platform . . .
I thought the trains in San Fran were cool, but I was a little annoyed that they were saying how unique they are to have them in all North America. Toronto had, and still has, a very strong street car fleet, a bunch of which are the original "Red Rockets" from the 50's (40s can't remember) but the same as those in San Fran, in fact I think they even had a pic of one of the TTC cars in the SanFran cars but labeled it to another city... grrr.. why does the US hate Canada so?
but I agree.. SUV's are someones sick joke.. "hey the earth is getting polluted, lets build big BIG cars..." Hummers are good for the battle feild, but if I never see another Yuppie driving down to Ensenada on the highway in one of those gas guzzeling shit-waggons I'll be a happy boy (they don't go off roading.. just go to drink... I see them driving with beer in hand; real safe.. !)
I ran for the border.. and I'm not looking back!!!
It sorta surprised me but it is true.
Septa from Philly to Trenton, New Jersey Transit to Penn Station in New York, NYC subway to Grand Central, Metro North to New Haven.
The transfers would probably kill your time compared to Amtrak though, especially if it wasn't peak hours.
Tim
Omnia vestra castrorum habetur nobis.
Does anyone know if a monorail actually has any advantages over regular two rail operation and under what situations?
Tim
Omnia vestra castrorum habetur nobis.
Not exactly a rail system, but the PRT that services WVU in Morgantown, WV., has been running for about 30 years now. Driverless, electrically driven cars with rubber tires on a concrete track, powered from a 3rd rail. The tracks are steam-heated in winter. It was a pork-barrel Rockefeller project from day one, and most likely sucks up great piles of federal funds to this day. Being prone to breakdowns, the University still had to keep buses & drivers on constant standby to shuttle students between the two spread-out campuses.
I remember news stories when I was attending college there in the late 70's about how stray dogs would occasionaly manage to get onto the track. The PRT cars, being computer controlled, would soon overtake and squish the pooches without even slowing down, while the passengers watched the whole thing, unable to do anything about it.
09 F9 11 02 9D 74 E3 5B D8 41 56 C5 63 56 88 C0
I dunno, seems like more of Shelbyville idea to me.
"Oooh!. Maglev! Let's do that!" Try to get beyond the buzzwords.
Sshhh! It's possible if you exhibit too much common sense, you might be banned from posting to Slashdot.
Well, it's only an inference at the moment, but...
No good sir, I'm on the level.
First let me start of by saying, I love the idea of public transportation, and that this was a great *idea* Unfortunately this light rail line is wrought with major problems in its implementation.
-First of all, the tracks are laid right into the street. Not only has it been causing massive traffic congestion but often times the train itself has to wait for traffic lights! They should have elevated it or buried it.
-Stations: There are WAY too many stations. Obviously there was some lobbying going on by the downtown businesses because there is a freaking stop every 2 blocks!! It is literally faster to walk. The NYC subway stops are a more sensible 10 blocks or more away from each other for the most part.
-Furthermore, most of these stations are OUTDOORS with NO ENCLOSED SPACE. Let me remind you this is a state with 6 months of winter, and subzero temperatures are very common. And none of them match up with the skyway system here (an excellent way to get around in the winter btw).
-It doesn't connect to anything important...yet. They are working on the connections to the airport and the Mall of America, but those will not be done until Dec. 04.
That 96000 total is extremely deceptive in that after the weekend when it was no longer FREE, the attendance dropped like a rock. The peak attendance on these trains was something like 14 people at a time. On a monday morning during rush hour. Not suprising considering how inefficient they are. The bus system is much the same here.
My hope is that they take this stretch of the line as a lesson in what not to do, and instead try to model it off of other major cities with successful public transit.
The sending of this message pretty much inconveniences everyone involved.
show your tits, Show your tits, Show your.....oh wait :p
The drink that gets me through many cold code nights. I'll come down ride the monster rail!
Not exactly, one of the biggest bondholders for the monorail is the state of NV.
The Doormat
If you're not outraged, then you're not paying attention.
I have been to Vegas many times, but this is the first time I've ever heard of this "sun" you speak of. They have daylight in Vegas?
Libertarian: label used by embarrassed Republicans, longing to be open about their greed, drug use and porn collections.
Both Germany and Japan are separately bigger than half of Texas.
Texas: 695,622 sq km
Half of Texas: 347,811 sq km
Germany: 356,970 sq km
Japan: 377,837 sq km
Germany and Japan's combined land area is also larger than all of Texas.
Germany + Japan: 734,807 sq km
Now Germany and Japan are smaller than Alaska. They're smaller than half of Alaska. Put together.
Alaska: 1,717,854 sq km
Half of Alaska: 858,927 sq km
But as bondholders, as long as the project is successful (and the risk on this is low), NV will get the investment back, plus interest, saving taxpayers money in the long run (ignoring inflation and larger budgets).
Governments SHOULD do this type of investing. If they did it correctly, we wouldn't have to pay taxes anymore. My dream is to build the federal treasury to a point where it operates off an annuity with no more income from the people. Granted, this will take a lot of upfront investment by the people, but it's a damn good thing.
Now to get elected...
"Why do you consent to live in ignorance and fear?" - Bad Religion
Source:
When the summer heat begins to bake Las Vegas, the last thing you want to be doing is hoofing it around town from one hotel casino to the next. To solve the problem, the Vegas city planners have implemented a solution reminiscent of Disneyland -- a monorail! Now, before you start recalling old Simpson's episodes, bear in mind that this is no ordinary monorail. The Las Vegas version will stop at seven stations covering a four mile circuit around town. Traveling at speeds up to 50 m.p.h., the journey will take approximately 14 minutes. The monorail should alleviate some traffic and also encourage people to visit multiple venues, including the Las Vegas Hilton, featuring Star Trek:The Experience, Quark's and the new "Borg Invasion 4D."
When the monorail finally opens this summer, at least one of the trains will appear Borgified on the outside. For an unspecified period of time, this car will carry a promotional message to visit the all-new "Borg Invasion 4D" attraction. Until then, the car is still visible, often times parked outside the Hilton.
For those paying a visit to the Hilton, you can swing by Quark's and feast on a revamped menu, complete with some new, powerful sounding drinks like the "Borg Sphere" and the "Warp Core Breach."
Food wise, you may want to sample such apetizing items as the Targ Empanadas, Chakotay Pizzette or the Coconut Tribble Skewer. Added to the exotic drinks (The James Tea Kirk is a fave) the menu at Quark's is a veritable feast of great Star Trek puns.
Ant(Dude) @ Quality Foraged Links (AQFL.net) & The Ant Farm (antfarm.ma.cx / antfarm.home.dhs.org).
You could teach us how to have really high unemployment. That'd be grand.
Oh wait, you were being sarcastic. My bad.
*dons Nomex unda-wears*
Why yes, I AM a rocket scientist!
...but can the driver get you cocaine?
There is essentially no difference between the Government imposing a 30% tax on corporate profits, and the Government owning 30% of every company.
You're correct in the dollar flow sense, but ownership implies control. If the government owned corporations, they'd be able to control them moreso than necessary regulation. That would be socialist and therefore retarded. Being that in the US, the people ARE the government, we should be able to use the legal entities we allow to exist to our benefit. The biggest benefit we can get from corporations is to rid the individual of the burden of taxation. Granted, taxation still exists indirectly through price inflation, but it is much less of a burden.
I think its about time in the development of our economy to push to create a government that is selfsustaining using existing entities.
"Why do you consent to live in ignorance and fear?" - Bad Religion
Bah, I've already been to the ones in Brockway, Ogdenville, and North Haverbrook . . .
The rail systems received huge subsidies during their construction. They also enjoyed regulated rates for many years.
Mea navis aericumbens anguillis abundat
I'm pretty sure I rode on the beginnings of this monorail last time I was in Vegas, which was like, almost a year ago. It was runnin gbetween that strip of places where the Luxor and Mandalay Bay and all thsoe are at, wherever that is in Vegas.
11*43+456^2
The unemployment rate in the UK is 4.8%, in the US it's 5.6% ( US, UK). Curse our third world-esque level of unemployment!
Okay. First check with France, because they're in a bad way. Then remember that it's a joke. C'mere. I'll give you a hug and a scone.
Why yes, I AM a rocket scientist!
Whoa... don't forget to turn on the FUD control, folks.
Socialist==retarded? If you define socialism as collective (governmental) control of the economy, then "socialism" has been the most wildly succesful system of economic management in the United States, ever. Remember, we were still in the depression going into World War 2, and after several years of complete government domination of our means of production the economy exploded following the end of the war. Not to mention the trillions of dollars piped through the Pentagon into developing new technologies (socialism without the social program). Putting aside knee jerk reactions, socialism is still alive and well in the United States (Ironically enough, communism itself was killed off by the bolsheviks in 1918).
I am a frequent visitor of Vegas and I doubt I will EVER use the new monorail. First of all, the construction of this monorail closed a number of FREE trams/rails that I often used. There was an excellent free rail between the MGM and Ballys, as well as the Monte Carlo -> Bellagio tram. Both closed down for this construction. Now going from MGM to Ballys will cost $$ and the Monte Carlo Bellagio tram still remains closed! It's on the other side of the street for god sakes. There was no reason to close this excellent free service.
Second, the cost. I usually go with a group of friends, and if the 5 of us split a cab, it always cost $10 or less total, AND takes us door to door instead of only a few stations WAY at the back of the casinos. This is also 24 hrs a day. The monorail closes at midnight!! Who the hell heads back to their room at midnight in vegas?!
The only advantage the monorail has is a direct route to the convention center. Large conventions could make good use of this, but otherwise, I'd suggest tourists stay away.
The main purpose of this monorail is to create easier travel between the LVCA (convention center) and the strip. The conventnion center is a good distance away from the strip if you walk, this will make staying on the strip and traveling to the LVCA much easier. Plus most travelers will be business and be paying with business account more then likely. Others will be people who just need a quick way to get around. I'm sure day passes will eventually be released for this system. But its not always easy to get around between areas in vegas, even if it doesn't seem that far. While this is useless for locals its perfect for travelers who want to see different areas of vegas. Once this reachs out to Downtown this will provide much more bsuiness for that area that is hard to reach right now and that most people dont' want to pay the extra money to go and visit. sinc down town is a few miles away from the strip and is renovating also to become popular again this is a great thing for the las vegas economy.
But for the most part vegas gets most of its income now adays from CONVENTION TRAVELERS. Which means that making it easier to get back and fourth to the convention center is always a plus. The stations they have built for this system are really nice and will also help the business traveller
I can't believe its not butter!
Ok, the US are large, but compared to the huge size (especially east-west) of Russia they pale in comparison. And still (besides airtravel certainly) railroads seem to be very important there even for long distance trips (a friend of mine travelled last year from Moscow to Ulan-Bator in Mongolia by train. Pretty cool).
I'll bet London to a brick you're probably some breed of Neanderthal^Wconservative, so I'll point you in the direction of these papers, many of them by a guy called Paul Weyrich who on other issues seems to be about as conservative as they come. Basically, people like yourself ignore the truly gargantuan subsidies that go to road funding.
Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from a rigged demo
--Andy Finkel (J. Klass?)
I'm an American currently stationed in Germany and I used to wonder the same thing myself before I got over here. Here's why it won't work the same.
Over here in Europe the populations are clumped together a lot more than in the states. In Germany all the villages are pretty tightly packed. You don't have big yards, many people live in small houses that are right up against the next house or at most has a small alleyway seperating the houses. You have these little villages and then you'll have a kilometer or three of farm land or woods and then the next village. In the states everyone has a big back yard, a house, and we aren't living right on top of each other. Our suburbs and definatly our rural areas are more spread out.
It's not feasible for every village in the US to have a train station or bus stop because with everyone so spread out it might be a couple mile walk to the nearest public transportation pick up. Where I grew up, Maine, NY, I was a few miles away from the center of the town and at least 6 or 7 miles away from the nearest bus stop. Where in Germany they are never more than a half mile or so from the nearest bus stop, or so it seems to me.
And so that's my opinion of why the US cannot have a mass transit system like they have here in Europe.
"Armed forces abroad are of little value unless there is prudent counsel at home" - Cicero
Another problem is that to get to mass transit stations, most people have to travel some number of miles from their home. Most inter-city train stations are in the center of a city and parking is impossible or VERY expensive. In some cities this is not a problem for local trains because the systems' designers provided for ample suburban station parking and the local administrators see free parking as an incentive for people to use mass transit. In other cities, such as with the Washington, DC METRO system, the inadequately sized METRO parking lots fill up early in the day and the administrators charge for parking to subsidise rail operations. For more information about Washington DC METRO fair and parking increases and anticipated reduction in usage, see today's article at http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A193 08-2004Jun30.html
These can work well for business trips to multiple cities. For example I can leave central London at 7pm and be in a station in the middle of Berlin at 8am the next morning, having showered and had breakfast. The alternatives require paying for a hotel in one of the cities and painful trips to and from the airports. You can potentialy cover a lot of ground in 10 hours (1500 miles or more). Even better if the cities are slightly closer together as you have time to go out for food and some drinks, before making your way to the station and going straight to bed to sleep it off.
Fuck the taxis... the limos.... bring on mass transit...What's the Problem? Oh no you have competition? Let people make their own decision about how they can best get to their destination.
Mass Transit cannot and will not solve all transportation problems. On the other hand it will allow visitors and locals to have a choice of transportation.
Again if your business can't survive a tech revolution... your business is not fit to survive..... simple as that.
A fool throws a stone into a well and a thousand sages can not remove it.
Granted, they're cool because they apparently run on one rail rather than too, but, um...
What good does it do?
I mean really. What, besides added expense and "it looks cool" are the advantages of a monorail system over your regular everyday commuter trains?
"No problem. I have the capacity to do infinite work so long as you don't mind that my quality approaches zero."-Dilbert
Does anyone know if a monorail actually has any advantages over regular two rail operation and under what situations?
It may be hard for many Slashdotters to understand this, but the public generally goes for aesthetics and the wiz-bang factor (rather than the cold hard facts). To many people, a monorail is just plain cool.
This can also work against the monorail, though. In bad economic times, the public may judge a monorail to be too extravagant of an expense (even if it's the same cost as traditional Chicago-style "el" eleveted rail).
The idea seemed to be that either you stayed at the theme park hotels, or have a car if you go on holiday in France. (The TGV stops there occasionally but you have to book in advance etc.)
The Dallas Fort Worth airport had a similar tram system that connected the various terminals. It appeared to be fully automated, although it could have been remotely operated. I still remember that you had to use coins (50c?) to get into the system and that the dollar bill changers at the tram stations gave you 95 cents for a dollar bill.
It seems odd that they would go to the expense of steam heating the "track", it seems that it would have been cheaper to just cover the whole thing. Covering the track would greatly reduce the need for steam heating and reduce or eliminate weather related deterioration of the track, mechanicals, and possibly the cars.
Oh, everything's stolen nowadays. Why, the fax machine is nothing but a waffle iron with a phone attached.
(I can't believe I managed to use a relevent Simpson's quote in a story on monorails without refering to the monorail episode.)
So it stops at the las vegas hilton, huh? Too bad, I was hoping to be able to pull into the Paris Hilton. ....perhaps the 'service entrance' to the Paris Hilton...
What? At least it's not a Simpsons reference
There are some people that if they don't know, you can't tell 'em.
usefulness! While I agree that Las Vegas and all other major cities should really have a public transportation system (not necessarily owned by the government), this doesn't do what it really should do: make the entire city accessible. While the 4 mile strip section served here will benefit, its still a pain in the ass to get to old las vegas. I remember taking a bus there and thinking, what a pain.
When the monorail serves everywhere from the airport to old las vegas, then it will be cool. and it should run 24 hours, since the rest of the cities do. Transportation initiatives like this help eliminate drunk drivers, help make commuters lives easier (although prolly not much so in Vegas), and connect neighborhoods.
Reason, free market capitalism, and individualism
What, no slot machines on the Monorail? In Las Vegas, there are slot machines everywhere. I think the only reason why they don't have them in the bathroom is because they might be mistaken for urinals :-)
Never hit your grandmother with a shovel, for it leaves a bad impression on her mind...
Taxi drivers can kick and scream all they want but the reality of the situation is that this is desperatly needed. I once waited 45 minutes at the airport just to get a cab. Factor in the 'waiting in the Las Vegas Heat' factor and this is completely justified.
All your base are belong to us!
In my hobby as a semi-pro poker player, I travel to Vegas often. The east side of the strip is the dull side. The Bellagio, Mirage, Mandalay Bay, and Luxor are all on the west side. The Venetian is the only cool (IMO) casino on the east side.
Regarding the price, $3 is a steal compared to the $10 cab rides between hotels and $20 taxis from the airport. And I'm sure the casinos on the route will give free tokens to anyone with a player's card.
18 wheelers - the word you were looking for is little specialized infrastructure.
Interstates, truck stops, etc...
This concludes our 3 week course...
For the uninitiated, here's the link to the ODU Maglev project.
If this wasn't the inspiration for the Simpsons episode, it may well have been. Outside entrepreneur comes in, sells everyone on the idea (maglev! monorail!), gets a big check, it doesn't work, more money pours in, still doesn't work, etc.
WeRelate.org - wiki-based genealogy
You'll notice that cities which are fairly close together do have integrated rail systems. But the US as a whole is simply too large and too sparsely populated for rail to work well on a national scale.
Rail's not terribly flexible: you can only go where there is a line, and the lines themselves are expensive to run. This is not a problem for relatively densely-populated areas, because you're guaranteed of having enough people everywhere that running that many rails is viable. In sparsely-populated areas, however, there's simply no viable way to run rails everywhere that people go, because there aren't enough people going everywhere to support all those lines. If they don't go everywhere, then people won't use them.
Though it is not entirely new in North America: Vancouver's (British Columbia) SkyTrain system uses similar Bombardier technology and is the backbone of their transit system. Also, in New York City, both Newark and Kennedy airports (small towns in themselves) have Bombardier systems connecting the terminals to each other and to regional rail networks a few miles away from the airports.
The Dallas airport tram is now free to ride, but my God is it slow. You could crawl to the next terminal in less time. I believe this is a consequence of it being fully automated, it must be slow just in case something happens that the computer did not anticipate.
Worst. Troll. Ever.
airport (which the taxicab and limo groups fight tooth and nail)
You know, this would be a lot more palatable if the taxi and limo services provided remotely acceptable service. When I'm landing in Vegas I don't give a crap about the $10 - $20 for the cab fare - what I hate is standing in a line of 3,000 people for 45 minutes waiting for a cab. In fact, if there were a line for the cheap monorail and little or no line for the cabs, I would still gladly take the cabs - I'm on my way to meet friends from other cities and I already know I'm going to lose money.
Everyone arrives in Vegas on Friday at 7 PM. The Vegas taxi queue is an impressive one, with 20 or 30 stands, but it's still entirely inadequate. When moving large volumes of people from one fixed point to another fixed point (airport/strip), it's worthwhile looking into systems designed to transit people in mass numbers.
Stop-Prism.org: Opt Out of Surveillance
Las Vegas already has a small network of overhead walkways. A full network of overhead walkways with a Tomorrowland Transit Authority system (another Disneyland transportation system) would allow people to walk or to ride. At 10 MPH they are slower than a mono rail, but because they use linear induction propulsion it may be possible to speed them up.
Interestingly, Marge vs. the Monorail has the distinction of being one of the few epsiodes written by Conan O'Brien (yes, that Conan O'Brien). He also wrote the brilliant (IMHO) Homer Goes to College.
And not to be OT: I think the Vegas monorail (at its magnitidue) is an excellent proof-of-concept for solving metropolitan congestion where a subway is either prohibitively expensive or infeasible. If it's a success, maybe we'll see more cities following suit?
The Monorail has been a big deal for years, and it looks like it won't be expanding anytime soon. Cabbies don't want it to go to the airport, and the Stratosphere hotel has been trying to tie their portion of the monorail funding to approval of some of their thrill rides by the city council and county commission. (These rides, I might add, are heavily opposed by the people living near the casino because of the noise they would generate.) There's too much politics in the thing already, and I'm surprised it's gotten as far as it has.
The existing portion will be nice for the tourists, or anyone else jaunting up and down the Strip, but it is significantly less useful until it goes from McCarran to Fremont Street. The ultimate plan is to have it run that length and tie into light rail to be built along US95 northbound from downtown, and following the I-215 beltway from Henderson on up.
At least, this is the plan I've heard. I think it's a waste of money. Las Vegas is a suburban sprawl. Mass transit works best in dense urban cities.
There is a difference between "insightful" and "inciteful" other than spelling.
I know a little french town called Nancy,
where they installed one of these monorail from Bombardier and well, it crashed.
It was delayed numerous times, they couldn't make it work, had to rebuild some stations, re-inforce the rails and carriages, and spend hundreds of millions of euros of taxpayers money in the process...
The design was clearly inadequate and flawed: a monorail carriage cannot take sharp corners on very steep streets (>4% declination) but they refused to fix it!
I've got an idea, let's sell an OS with a browser that crashes all the time and see what the users say...
TODO: 753) write sig.
...is there anything they can't do?
You are asking the wrong question, why hasn't Europe built their mass transit like the US has. In the use a lot more builk freight goes by rail than in Europe. Sure people take the train, but people care about time, with a little planning most freight doesn't. So let the bulk goods take the train, and let people take cars, a much better solution.
Though I admit that when your population is as dense as Europe mass transit for people makes sense. I still don't understand why bulk transit by rail doesn't make sense when your population is that dense.
I've written quite a lot about this in my journal.
Drill baby drill - on Mars
A guy I used to know had the cushiest job in transit: BART train operator. As he explained it to me.
Task 1: Open driver's cab window on platform side of train.
Task 2: Make announcements in unknown alien language (like Klingonese, but more sibilant).
Task 3: Hold down on button to keep doors open.
Task 4: If doors are open for more than 1 minute, answer intercom and explain why doors are still open.
Task 5: Ignore guys in back seats of last car with newspapers all over their laps.
*** That's right: The button holds the doors open. If it were up to the computer, BART trains would be in and out of a station in under a minute. ***
- this sig is sponsored by Bachelor Chow -
I've gone to Vegas every March/April for around 10 years now, for the National Association of Broadcasters convention. It isn't THAT hot that time of the year, and it's quite pleasant at night. I used to walk all the time, since the cab lines during a major show can be incredibly long - a 20 minute walk is often much faster, and a lot less boring.
:). Heck, these days I stay in the Hilton, which is right next door to the convention center, and it takes literally 20 minutes to briskly walk from my hotel room to a booth in the South Hall.
It's a whole different view of Vegas at street level. It really shows the scale of the Casinos, when you realize you've been walking past Caesar's for the last ten minutes
My video compression blog
The town names are Brockway, Ogdenville, and North Haverbrook. I believe that they actually ripped them off from an old Twilight Zone episode, although I can't find any info on which episode that was.
- Give a man a fire and he's warm for a day, but set him on fire and he's warm for the rest of his life.
The only time the Strip doesn't look like the start of the Boston Marathon is between 3 and 8 in the morning. Everyone walks. So many damn people walk it's ridiculous. Walking the 2 miles from the MGM to the Flamingo takes over a hour because of all the people in the way.
Hollow words will burn and hollow men will burn.
It has to start somewhere, but I hope it doesn't get "terminated" from ever getting expanded like the Space Needle monorail in Seattle.
I regret that Salt Lake City didn't go this route. There have already been several deaths due to light rail in downtown SLC on a relitvely new system, with a major expansion being proposed. Downtown SLC is totally messed up now, and much of that could have/should have been dealt with by having an elevated platform of some sort instead. Monorails would have made it fit in around many of the buildings there including the historic Temple Square district. The overhead wires also tend to distract from the view as well when looking from street-level.
"Well, judging by your husband's cowardly screams, about 180 miles an hour."
(Just thought it was time for a new Simpsons reference)
I am so smart!
I am so smart!
S-M-R-T!
I mean S-M-A-R-T!
I'll wait for the Bombardier M-EMACS!
Best Buy can have you arrested
DART (Dallas) actually stands for Doesn't Actually Run There.
Construction techniques required to build the Las Vegas Monorail are essentially no different than what was needed to build I-215
Actually, far easier. The concrete can be poured and set offsite, in a factory, and the track sections trucked in and erected on site. The potential for economies of scale are pretty huge. The cars could be mass produced. The control system could be mass produced (but it would still require some calibration once installed) and the track can be mass produced (but it requires construction labor, of course, to install.)
These are my friends, See how they glisten. See this one shine, how he smiles in the light.
It will also take a president who actually *believes* that government should be run in the black, and as small as possible. Like Bill Clinton. As for the monorail- anybody who's ever driven the strip can see the value of this investment.
SJW: a person who perceives an injustice, and while correcting it, commits a greater injustice.
correct?
Without splitting hairs about locomotive efficiency in the great swaths of open land in the midwest, trains still have a long way to go in the USA.
For one, most of the population lives on the easter seaboard. The vast majority of the population in fact. Simply connecting this by rail (sub urbs included) could be very feasable.
The Problem with the above analysis is that it is taking both europe and the United States to be homogenous population densities. They are not. There are areas in europe with lower population densities with good rail transport that the areas in the US with higher density and no rail transport. I'm sure if you mapped out the areas by density and rail coverage overlay, you could see this.
The other issue is that of new development. Wasting all our extra space in north america vs. new dense urban development in europe. Designing a city to accomodate a rail is just as important and desiging a rail to accomodate a city.
Also, I'll say it again, The auto industry is too powerful.
Fully automated transit systems have been in use for years. The only example I can think of right now is Vancouver, which has had one since 1986.
The track area in front of stations is equipped with pressure sensitive plates that trigger an alarm if anything enters the guideway. Getting hit by a train is no easier when it's computer controlled.
...just how fa technology has come in just 3 years :)
...Just how far technology has come in the last 3 years :)
Actually, it was orignally scheduled to open January 20th.
-CowboyNick