You think for commercial software they decide what framework? You think in any environment other than hobby projects that the primary selection criteria is developer candy???
Yeah developer candy is first on my list when looking at a product as an end user. I mean stuff security, reliability, etc. That's just all rubbish when I can make my developers even more diabetic.
So, as a self-confessed fanboy can you please tell me what exactly would make you give up a company that's behaving so badly? How far do they have to go? I mean would Steve Jobs coming up to you in his turtleneck and whacking you on the head with a rubber mallet be enough? Do they have to try to assassinate a family member? Try to cut off your willie? What exactly? where is the line?
When it comes to mathematical and scientific ability, I really don't care about someone's genitals. Stop checking. If a woman shows ability there should be no additional road blocks compared to a man who shows ability. There should be no affirmative action either.
Locking up knowledge so that only specialists get access is a stupid, destructive, elitist practice that is self defeating (who do you think funds most work???) and detracts from the life we're all capable of leading. Those who Suggest that popular accounts can't be good are just making a poor excuse for their own inability to communicate. Over-simplification isn't the whole problem. Poor communication is.
Most people over the age of about 12 (well 16 in some places) understand that you won't get all the detail from a popular article. Popular articles are about giving us the flavour of what's being discussed. Without them a great deal of human knowledge is complete inaccessible to the masses. Hell, even the most intelligent of us doesn't have time to specialise in every field.
It can be done, or it can be done poorly. Done well people get a flavour for the complexity of the topic, understand the limitations of the popular description, walk away with an appreciation for the topic and perhaps get to chat to other intelligent people about the wonders of it. Take a look at Sagan's Cosmos, Brian Greene's Elegant Universe (whether or not you think String theory is the way forward), any Attenborough documentary (if you can stay awake - I must confess the man's voice is a cure for insomnia which is a pity because I think his documentaries are so well done)
Done poorly Joe Schmoe walks way with a misunderstanding based on poor analogies and either thinks the topic is a total waste of time and money or rhat he could do better at the field with no specialist knowledge. See almost any human interest piece on the news, idiotic wildlife entertainment shows like Steve Irwin's tripe, and all reality TV.
if my 65-year-old mom has heard of a piece of technology, then it's popular. If she has purchased or downloaded a piece of technology, then it's enormously popular.
So a sample size of one and your mind is made up? Really???
No it doesn't. The parent is clearly talking/complaining about VMware, Xen, Kvm type virtualization, and guest OS instances for all those require their own kernel. He isn't talking about jails/container solutions (FreeBSD Jails, OpenVZ, Solaris Containers, etc) or none of his points would make any sense
So the parent is using the wrong kind of virtualisation, then blaming the tool. My screw driver won't shovel dirt very well. Bad screw driver. He found a solution that better fitted what he was trying to do and is implying that VMWare is therefore bad. When you misuse a tool then conclude the tool is bad, it's quite valid to point out there are tools out there better suited to the job.
ot without shutting the guest down first. If you mount a filesystem on a disk/partition twice and that filesystem is not a specially designed cluster filesystem, and the two OS instances are not part of the same cluster, then you WILL get data corruption. The parent's point is valid !
One of us is misreading. I thought the parent was complaining that he couldn't access files on the virtualized OS without starting up his guest. I was pointing out there are solutions to mount virtual partitions. (I've personally only done it on MS Virtual server as a workaround when Vista restore didn't work).
If he wants to access the file system read-write both through guest and host at the same time what he's doing is silly. Any 2 systems accessing the same partition read-write, virtualized or not, will cause problems unless the file system is written specifically to accommodate that. (I'm not aware of any that do off the top of my head).
You should have stopped at your list of what virtualization is good and not good for. You let yourself down after that.
Virtualization is an excellent story to sell. It is a process that can be applied to a wide range of problems.
Screw-drivers are an excellent tool. However if you're in a position to buy tools for your company, you should know enough to show me the door if I try to sell you a screw driver to shovel dirt.
Virtualization DOES make sense, when you're trying to solve the right problem. Do not blame the tool for the incompetence of those using it. It's no good using a screwdriver to shovel dirt and then blaming the screwdriver.
Virtualization is good for many things: - Low performance apps. Install once, run many copies - Excellent for multiple test environments where tests are not hardware dependant - Infrequently used environments, like dev environments, especially where the alternate solution is to provide physical access to multiple machines - Demos and teaching where multiple operating systems are required - Running small apps that don't run on your OS of choice infrequently
Virtualization is NOT good for: - High performance applications - Performance test envrionemnts - Removing all dependence on physical hardware - Moving your entire business to
Your specific concerns: # Each guest needs its own kernel, so you need to allocate memory and disk space for all these kernels that are in fact identical
Actually this depends on your virtualization solution
# TLB flushes kill performance. Recent x86 CPUs address the problem to some degree, but it's still a problem.
So is hard disk access from multiple virtual operating systems contending for the same disk (unless you're going to have one disk per guest OS...even then are you going through one controller?) Resource contention is a trade-off. If all your systems are going to be running flat out simultaneously virtualization is a bad solution.
# A guest's filesystem is on a virtual block device, so it's hard to get at it without running some kind of fileserver on the guest
You can often mount the virtual disks in a HOST OS. No different to needing software to access multiple partitions. As long as the software is available, it's not as big an issue.
# Memory management is an absolute clusterfuck. From the point of view of the host, each guest's memory is an opaque blob, and from the point of view of the guest, it has the machine to itself. This mutual myopia renders the usual page-cache algorithms absolutely useless. Each guest blithely performs memory management and caching on its own resulting in severely suboptimal decisions being made
A lot of operating systems are becoming virtualization aware, and can be scheduled cooperatively to some degree. That doesn't mean your concern isn't valid, but there is hope that the problems will be reduced. However once again if all your virtual environments are running flat out, you're using virtualization for the wrong thing.
If "Having other students answer roll call for them" is an indetectible method of circumventing the rollcall procedures, then Japanese professors are just playing into the West's "All Asians Look Exactly Alike" stereotype. Way to go, Nihon.
You joke, but in all seriousness, I don't know how I can keep hearing about the wonderful efficiency of Japanese schools when this is a clear indicator that their teachers can't even tell them apart. If that's the case generally it goes a long way towards explaining their suicide rate.
I'm not being racist here. Any country can have a poor education system. I wouldn't want to send my school to a U.S. school with metal detectors either!
Here in Aus, we're multicultural but still manage to be quite screwed up. Our gun crime isn't so bad but our suicide rates are up there (or were last time I looked) and we do have racist incidents. At the moment the bashing of Indian exchange students is in our papers and the Indian government and consulate have been involved. We also have the whole "every child must pass primary school" mentality going through our system, which sets children up for massive shock when they hit high school and realise that the wrong answer actually gets marked wrong.
Aren't schools suppose to be a safe nuturing place??
No president wants to go back to browsing the Internet on a slow link y'all. By taking out the line you're now responsible for $100 worth of that other kind of cable bill.
Slashdot Mirror
What you're describing is not developer Candy. Developer Candy is a neat new scripting language or plugin that does something "cool".
What you're describing is:
- The Rapid Application Development paradigm which was too hastily abandoned.
- Code stability/reliability/predictability.
You're talking about hobby development.
You think for commercial software they decide what framework? You think in any environment other than hobby projects that the primary selection criteria is developer candy???
Yeah developer candy is first on my list when looking at a product as an end user. I mean stuff security, reliability, etc. That's just all rubbish when I can make my developers even more diabetic.
Who comes up with this nonsense?
...the first time the game was sold.
Clearly the reason there's a huge profit margin in used games is that new games are priced way too high.
Stop whining, you greedy arseholes!
Well we can't get them prosecuted for human cruelty, so I don't like your chances.
I don't know about that. Perhaps the dog's just trained to smell permanent marker. Some of those fake DVDs aren't all that high quality ;-)
Coal power plants, not light bulbs, are the problem.
You shouldn't be trying to fit a coal power plant to your light fixture.
Nuclear works DECADES ago.
Hydroelectric works DECADES ago.
Solar works DECADES ago.
Wind works DECADES ago.
Do you have evidence of this change to the laws of physics DECADES ago? Why don't these things work anymore?
Will it drop bird poop on your surveillance target? I mean how suspicious would a bird be if it didn't do that?
Please keep this tripe off the front page.
Thanks
- Sane slashdotters everywhere (and a few insane ones too)
I'm an Apple fanboy and even I'm sick of this.
So, as a self-confessed fanboy can you please tell me what exactly would make you give up a company that's behaving so badly? How far do they have to go? I mean would Steve Jobs coming up to you in his turtleneck and whacking you on the head with a rubber mallet be enough? Do they have to try to assassinate a family member? Try to cut off your willie? What exactly? where is the line?
According to the TV show it was suppose to be $6 Million for the entire man! No wonder it's taking so long.
When it comes to mathematical and scientific ability, I really don't care about someone's genitals. Stop checking. If a woman shows ability there should be no additional road blocks compared to a man who shows ability. There should be no affirmative action either.
Locking up knowledge so that only specialists get access is a stupid, destructive, elitist practice that is self defeating (who do you think funds most work???) and detracts from the life we're all capable of leading. Those who Suggest that popular accounts can't be good are just making a poor excuse for their own inability to communicate. Over-simplification isn't the whole problem. Poor communication is.
Most people over the age of about 12 (well 16 in some places) understand that you won't get all the detail from a popular article. Popular articles are about giving us the flavour of what's being discussed. Without them a great deal of human knowledge is complete inaccessible to the masses. Hell, even the most intelligent of us doesn't have time to specialise in every field.
It can be done, or it can be done poorly. Done well people get a flavour for the complexity of the topic, understand the limitations of the popular description, walk away with an appreciation for the topic and perhaps get to chat to other intelligent people about the wonders of it. Take a look at Sagan's Cosmos, Brian Greene's Elegant Universe (whether or not you think String theory is the way forward), any Attenborough documentary (if you can stay awake - I must confess the man's voice is a cure for insomnia which is a pity because I think his documentaries are so well done)
Done poorly Joe Schmoe walks way with a misunderstanding based on poor analogies and either thinks the topic is a total waste of time and money or rhat he could do better at the field with no specialist knowledge. See almost any human interest piece on the news, idiotic wildlife entertainment shows like Steve Irwin's tripe, and all reality TV.
if my 65-year-old mom has heard of a piece of technology, then it's popular. If she has purchased or downloaded a piece of technology, then it's enormously popular.
So a sample size of one and your mind is made up? Really???
There is a solution to this, however. If your group is cohesive enough, maybe each can contribute to the acquisition of a "group computer."
There's something decidedly funny about telling the art guy to get a communal computer...and they wonder why people say slashdot is communist hehe.
No it doesn't. The parent is clearly talking/complaining about VMware, Xen, Kvm type virtualization, and guest OS instances for all those require their own kernel. He isn't talking about jails/container solutions (FreeBSD Jails, OpenVZ, Solaris Containers, etc) or none of his points would make any sense
So the parent is using the wrong kind of virtualisation, then blaming the tool. My screw driver won't shovel dirt very well. Bad screw driver. He found a solution that better fitted what he was trying to do and is implying that VMWare is therefore bad. When you misuse a tool then conclude the tool is bad, it's quite valid to point out there are tools out there better suited to the job.
ot without shutting the guest down first. If you mount a filesystem on a disk/partition twice and that filesystem is not a specially designed cluster filesystem, and the two OS instances are not part of the same cluster, then you WILL get data corruption. The parent's point is valid !
One of us is misreading. I thought the parent was complaining that he couldn't access files on the virtualized OS without starting up his guest. I was pointing out there are solutions to mount virtual partitions. (I've personally only done it on MS Virtual server as a workaround when Vista restore didn't work).
If he wants to access the file system read-write both through guest and host at the same time what he's doing is silly. Any 2 systems accessing the same partition read-write, virtualized or not, will cause problems unless the file system is written specifically to accommodate that. (I'm not aware of any that do off the top of my head).
You should have stopped at your list of what virtualization is good and not good for. You let yourself down after that.
I respectfully disagree.
Get their attention. Sue the school or district for child endangerment.
Virtualization is an excellent story to sell. It is a process that can be applied to a wide range of problems.
Screw-drivers are an excellent tool. However if you're in a position to buy tools for your company, you should know enough to show me the door if I try to sell you a screw driver to shovel dirt.
Right tool. Right job.
In any industry:
Poor management + slick marketing = Disaster
Virtualization DOES make sense, when you're trying to solve the right problem. Do not blame the tool for the incompetence of those using it. It's no good using a screwdriver to shovel dirt and then blaming the screwdriver.
Virtualization is good for many things:
- Low performance apps. Install once, run many copies
- Excellent for multiple test environments where tests are not hardware dependant
- Infrequently used environments, like dev environments, especially where the alternate solution is to provide physical access to multiple machines
- Demos and teaching where multiple operating systems are required
- Running small apps that don't run on your OS of choice infrequently
Virtualization is NOT good for:
- High performance applications
- Performance test envrionemnts
- Removing all dependence on physical hardware
- Moving your entire business to
Your specific concerns:
# Each guest needs its own kernel, so you need to allocate memory and disk space for all these kernels that are in fact identical
Actually this depends on your virtualization solution
# TLB flushes kill performance. Recent x86 CPUs address the problem to some degree, but it's still a problem.
So is hard disk access from multiple virtual operating systems contending for the same disk (unless you're going to have one disk per guest OS...even then are you going through one controller?) Resource contention is a trade-off. If all your systems are going to be running flat out simultaneously virtualization is a bad solution.
# A guest's filesystem is on a virtual block device, so it's hard to get at it without running some kind of fileserver on the guest
You can often mount the virtual disks in a HOST OS. No different to needing software to access multiple partitions. As long as the software is available, it's not as big an issue.
# Memory management is an absolute clusterfuck. From the point of view of the host, each guest's memory is an opaque blob, and from the point of view of the guest, it has the machine to itself. This mutual myopia renders the usual page-cache algorithms absolutely useless. Each guest blithely performs memory management and caching on its own resulting in severely suboptimal decisions being made
A lot of operating systems are becoming virtualization aware, and can be scheduled cooperatively to some degree. That doesn't mean your concern isn't valid, but there is hope that the problems will be reduced. However once again if all your virtual environments are running flat out, you're using virtualization for the wrong thing.
Britain definitely does not have a Ministry of Defense and we also don't have a TV License either.
What about smug Englishmen?
If "Having other students answer roll call for them" is an indetectible method of circumventing the rollcall procedures, then Japanese professors are just playing into the West's "All Asians Look Exactly Alike" stereotype. Way to go, Nihon.
You joke, but in all seriousness, I don't know how I can keep hearing about the wonderful efficiency of Japanese schools when this is a clear indicator that their teachers can't even tell them apart. If that's the case generally it goes a long way towards explaining their suicide rate.
I'm not being racist here. Any country can have a poor education system. I wouldn't want to send my school to a U.S. school with metal detectors either!
Here in Aus, we're multicultural but still manage to be quite screwed up. Our gun crime isn't so bad but our suicide rates are up there (or were last time I looked) and we do have racist incidents. At the moment the bashing of Indian exchange students is in our papers and the Indian government and consulate have been involved. We also have the whole "every child must pass primary school" mentality going through our system, which sets children up for massive shock when they hit high school and realise that the wrong answer actually gets marked wrong.
Aren't schools suppose to be a safe nuturing place??
No president wants to go back to browsing the Internet on a slow link y'all. By taking out the line you're now responsible for $100 worth of that other kind of cable bill.
When I'm bored I can go anywhere in the world by flying there
Dude, the story about being a bum was YESTERDAY.