then asked to recall which colors they saw, they picked colors brighter and more saturated than those they had been shown
I'm glad it's not the other way around but nor am I surprised. What evolutionary purpose would remembering things as duller and less saturated serve? A depressed creature is easier to kill and eat. Even if they're not they'll last less long through illness or misadventure.
- If you cook Chilli from a recipe it may come out "perfect every time" but it will also get pretty dull.
- A sunny day is a much greater joy in Scotland, where it's a rarity.
I don't have to go where the weather is miserable and eat bad curry to appreciate and enjoy good weather and good curry. I can just vary the recipe a little and travel to where the weather is awful once to get the idea.
People are built to try to improve their lives. Good thing too. You don't think that computer you're using grew on a tree do you? When we make things better we take them for granted and try to make them even better. It's called tenacity and it's not why we're miserable - it's why we got as far as we did. The trick is to know whether something is truly physically possible or wether some schmuck made an ad that tells you it is despite it being a fabrication for the sole purpose of stealing your cash by preying on your gullibility and selling junk.
The vast, vast, vast majority of people do not care about the same things as the Slashdot readership.
Shit I'm not talking about hacking a gps. I'm talking about recording and sending pictures and video to family and friends. Most people do want to be able tot do that.
I'm not talking about flac or ogg, writing code for the phone, hacking it or doing anything geeky. I'm talking about being able to view the joke video your mate sends you. If you've got an iPhone and it doesn't play the video format, you're SOL.
So I'm sick and tired of hearing how the features don't matter and only geeks want them. That's a bunch of self-serving self-justifying BULLSHIT. The truth is most people don't want to spend hours researching a phone so chances are they don't even know they want to do it until their friend does it. By that time, if they've bought an iPhone it's too late.
By the way I have a newborn son. I've just sent a multiple sms for the first time. I used the camera on the phone so my wife could see the baby for the first few hours while she was laid up and he was in a humidycrib in the next room. I took heaps of photos of the little guy, and sent a couple of mms. I haven't taken video with the phone but that's because I have a camera that does it better. Am I a geek? Hell yes. Would most people want to be able to do what I just did if it were easy to do? Hell yes.
Um. There are better phones out there. They're feature complete and they play music too. And it has nothing to do with being a Mac user.
By the way do they love it because they're trying to justify the big spend to themselves? Or because they don't know better? Because I don't see how anyone could love a phone that has weak reception, can't send MMS, can't record video, doesn't play well on the network, and doesn't play a bunch of formats that other phones do. Not to mention that it can't make phone calls until you hook it into iTunes, and it doesn't have a battery that an end user is meant to change. (That may be standard for iPods but every phone I've ever owned let you change the battery. C'mon now!)
I don't care why the problems are occuring. What I care about is that people continue to buy the thing despite it's many short comings based on brand loyalty. It seems from everything I've read that this is a lemon of a phone missing basic features (MMS for pity sake?! "Jailbreak" to record video??). Instead of people calling it a lemon, they try to imagine what it would be like if it worked and even justify the lack of features. If people continue to do that, what incentive is there for a company to actually produce a working product instead of a hunk of junk? It costs less money to make a broken piece of junk and market it well. In the end the market becomes saturated with iRubbish and we all suffer.
Different features are seen in different light at different wavelengths.
For an everyday example: I am using an old video camera with infra-red "night-vision" mode as a baby monitor. My newborn can sleep in the dark and I can still tell if he's breathing from the other room without disturbing him. If I switch back to "normal" colour spectrum, I see nothing but a black screen. That's because my baby emits and reflects differently in infra-red than he does in visible light.
Well objects in space are much more extreme. They don't live in the same 50 degree celicius range that we humans almost always do. Temperatures range from just above absolute zero to millions of degrees. They don't live at almost exactly the same distance from our sun like we do. Within our own solar system, the further you go from the sun the less reflected light there is and the harder it is to capture images of large objects in visible light because there is less of it. (Ever tried to capture pictures at night or in a rock concert. If there's no fast motion you take long exposures, but if there is you're hosed. Well think about how fast space craft move).
So instead of give up altogether scientists turn to other wavelengths and see that some features show up better in different frequencies, and in space that works well. If you want to see what the sky looks like at different frequencies, take a look here. They have images of much of the sky at different wavelengths.
Unfortunately here on earth the atmosphere absorbs too much at most frequencies so a lot of observation is limited to use in orbital observatories and spacecraft.
Note: I have an Astronomy masters but have never worked in the field. I did the degree "for fun".
I can behave predictably down to the last atom, but that action can still be the result of free will. For example I can always choose to not to jump off a cliff, and I can make that choice in the same way each time, and therefore that can be predictable. However each time my ability to reason it out is what makes it my choice, and that is what I talk about if I talk about free will. It has nothing to do with predictability, or even the number of choices presented. It has everything to do with my ability to reason it out and make the choice.
We took this spectacularly attractive blonde chick and wrote software that "automatically" turned her neutral facial expression (or slight scowl) into a smile. While we were at it we improved the symmetry of her face. Now she's gorgeous! We're brilliant!
But that's not all. We also took this African American guy and automatically plugged in a different African American guy's face that had the exact same pose. We're Gods I tell you!
That's lazy. Typical mod will read it and say, "Do the research? I already know what's out there and this guy's a troll." Sucks maybe, but that's how it is. I however, did do some research, and I found your beloved Nokia 6220 Classic has a weak battery life with a talk time of only 3.5 hours.
That's lazy? But it's reasonable to expect me to list out a feature comparison of every phone out there vs the iPhone?
The worst thing you could find about the 6220 classic is 3.5 hours talk time? I don't know how you use your phone but if I spent 3.5 hrs/day on the phone I'd be re-mortgaging my house. Did you check the standby time? In practical use I can go 3 or 4 days without charging it. 8 hours talk time vs 3.5 realistically means I have to charge my phone twice a week instead of once. Usually I just put it on charge every night and be done with it.
Whereas the buggy crap radio chipset on the iPhone means you get 1 bar of signal when everyone else is getting full signal. Which phone would I rather? Let me just think about it.
Do you see what I did there? I made a specific point and backed it up. It gets attention and it's way different than saying generic insults like, "the Nokia 6220 Classic isn't good enough in some areas," and it is different than saying, "your phone sucks, here's a bunch of links to prove it." Big difference.
Yes I did see what you did there. You made a weaker point, provided less backup (at least when asked to, I pointed to links instead of just pointing to a figure without stating my source), and then were condescending about it to boot. Another thing: If you pointed me to a better phone I'd have NO problem at all saying yes, you're right, wish I'd seen that before I bought. Not so with the iPhone and it's fans.
Finally, don't get angry so easily. It's just an internet forum and getting angry makes you look stupid, which I have no reason to believe you actually are.
As you said, a certain number of the mods actually agreed with you, so all you really have to do is say stuff in a way that doesn't attract troll mods and you'll get modded up. Even if I think your point was rather inane (although half of it was probably right).
Look I'm not here to abuse anyone or feign superiority. I hold nothing against you personally. However I am tired of people continually saying how fantastic Apple products are. I've bought Apple products twice in my life. An Apple IIe when I was 8 years old, which was overpriced and only to see Apple pull software sales from non-Apple outlets (essentially meaning I'd be lucky to be able to buy software twice a year), and a pair of iPods (for my wife and I) which also have been problematic (my clickwheel doesn't work. Hers had to be returned). There are people on this discussion board that could run circles around me in terms of technical knowledge and expertise, but some of those same people will buy bad product based on brand and then fool themselves (and others) into thinking that it's superior. That really gets my goat. It brings down the quality of all products on the market and gives me less choice while rewarding bad behaviour from companies. Why would any company go to the extra trouble and expense of making a good product when a bad one sells just as well?
You got modded flamebait because your post was flamebait.
Check the moderation.
40% Flamebait
30% Informative
30% Overrated
In other words at least 3 people (and likely more) found what I said informative. It's just that jackass Apple fanboys like yourself can't fucking stand it when someone criticizes their pet company. It's pathetic. Truly pathetic. Happens every time I criticize Apple. It gets modded up then the zealots shoot it down. Grow the fuck up. Not every opinion that is contrary to yours is flamebait jackass.
You called the iphone technically inferior, said it is missing industry standard features, and implied that the only reason people buy it is because of brand loyalty (and that nothing can protect them from their stupidity).
Correct on technically inferior. Correct on missing DEFACTO standard features. Correction it's only this popular due to brand loyalty. If the same phone were sold by another company it wouldn't take off. I stand by what I said.
our main points weren't what got you modded flamebait. It was the fact that you didn't back any of them up. Is the iphone technically inferior? Is it missing 'industry standard' features? You didn't even bother to list the industry standard features it is missing. Are you lazy, or are you unable to back up your points? Back up your arguments with reality and you will do much better getting the mods to understand you.
Oh I'm sorry fuck for brains. I forgot that I was writing a thesis. Oh wait it's just an internet discussion. The irony of you calling me lazy (not even bothering to ask me for proof) is just sweet. Go google iPhone missing features. Too lazy? Look at my other followup posts. Too lazy? Pot. Kettle Black. Typical fanboy! Here then:
Would you like a rag to wipe that egg off your face? Or are you going to spout some weak defensive garbage about those not being industry standard features, or not being important to most people. (Catch cry of the Apple fanboy, if Apple don't have it, it's not important)
Your final point is going to be hard to back up, because it goes against a lot of people's practical experience. I don't have an iPhone (because I prefer very small phones), but it does everything I need it to do well (make phone calls, check email), and it looks cool and is fun to use besides. Frankly I have no idea why you like the Nokia 6220 classic. I suppose it fits your needs, which is fine, but some people want something different.
I already have backed it up. My phone has features the iPhone doesn't. I didn't need to hook it into a computer to make outgoing calls (fucking lame!!! a phone that doesn't make calls out of the box, but needs to be hooked up to a computer!). I can send MMS. I can take pictures at 5 megapixel which will make the iPhones 2 megapixel pictures look like ASS. I can record video without "jailbreaking" the thing. I can send a fucking MMS. THAT is why I like it.
So, personally, since I like the iphone, and I am not caught up in brand loyalty, therefor it is going to be hard to convince me that everyone who has bought an iphone did it because of brand loyalty.
Not enough to buy it. You don't even own an iPhone and you're defending it! Looks like fun my left nut. Why don't you just buy a turtleneck, tattoo the Apple logo on your forehead and be done with it.
You can't judge the relative worth of different products just by going down a feature checklist. A swiss army knife has many more features than an 8" chef knife, but which one would you rather use to cut up some onions?
Apples and oranges. Specialist tool vs generalist tool. If I could only have one I'd rather have the swiss army knife UNLESS all I was doing was cutting up food. The iPhone and other phones are both specialist tools made for making phone calls that have additional features. Your comparison doesn't fly.
And you weren't being critical of Apple, you were being critical of the millions of people who've bought an iPhone.
Actually I was doing both. Go re-read.
You can't dismiss numbers like that with something as basic as "brand loyalty." All those people aren't going out and handing over hundreds of dollars because the iPhone was shiny enough that it shut their brain off (OK, some are, but not the majority)
Oh really? Explain why companies are willing to pay so much for superbowl ads and the like then. Plenty of otherwise intelligent people have been conditioned into buying based on brand and following the trend.
I should have been clearer I own a 6220 classic (not original version) which is a new phone. I've had it about a month and a half. Nokia has been re-using model numbers which does lead to confusion but the fault was mine for not being clear in the first place.
My phone has: - Good loudspeaker function - 5 MP camera (well timed to conincide with the arrival of my first born, though for anything but happy snaps I use a "real" camera) - MP3 player etc. (again well timed to help soothe the child. I never use to use mp3 playback for much other than ringtones) - Text to speech (Nifty but gimmicky) - MMS is no problem (Very useful) - Video is no problem (Haven't used it much yet) - 2nd camera for conference (though I haven't switched on video calls with my provider). - Runs symbian OS apps - Decent calendar and alarm system (though the lack of ability to copy calendar entries from one date to anther is an irritation) - Timed profiles. Very important to me as I have to set the phone to silent for meetings but often forget to switch it back if it's not an automatic thing.
For me a phone: First is a phone. No excuses for any missing features for placing and making simple calls and sending text/occasional MMS. Second it's an alarm/calendar for less important stuff like putting out the bins on a Monday night. Third it's a camera for snapshots or unexpected photo opportunities (or copying a whiteboard at work), but not for serious photography. Distant fourth its a music player if I'm bored.
That said I probably spoke a moment too soon. The thing just rebooted accepting a call. It's never done that before. I hope that's a one off glitch, but murphy's law's a bitch.
I thought we already covered that a zillion posts ago! The whole thread started with the thought that people who have bought P2P software and even paid for accounts would presume the licensing was covered, so the FBI warning wouldn't apply. You send money to iTunes and it's legal to download music there. You pay for an account with Kazaa and it's legal to download music there...(oops)
We did and you missed the point (on purpose) that any tool or service you procure can probably be used illegally if you don't know what you're doing. Everything from a simple knife (carried past airport security to cut steak) to a car (driven on the wrong side of the road or without a license) to alcohol (consumed in a public place where it is prohibited). Just because I pay for something, doesn't mean I can blindly use it while ignoring the law.
No, I assume they know less about computers and the legal issues swirling around them. Much like I know less than Tiger Woods about golf.
I'd expect you to know something about golf if you owned a set of clubs, or at least be in the process of learning if you're actively using them.
We probably have reached an impasse in the discussion, but it's not worth bursting an aneurysm over! I hereby agree to disagree.
Perhaps you can't comprehend plain English but I certainly have no issue with others making an informed purchase, nor do I define my intelligence by my purchases. Go and re-read my post if you truly think otherwise and aren't just trolling.
What I have a problem with is people falling for this brand loyalty crap and therefore pushing up the price and down the quality of phones on the market through pure supply and demand dynamics. Oh and I have a real problem with twits like yourself who can dish out criticism but can't take it, to the point where they have to misrepresent the other person's argument in an attempt to look superior.
I must admit that of that list my 6220 classic doesn't do wi-fi, and that was disappointing, but not a deal breaker for me especially given the price point.
But go ahead, pay through the nose for it, and enjoy your missing features. A touch screen would be a welcome addition but since I learnt to use a keypad as a child, you can keep your touch screen interface which is probably the only significant advantage (not even worthy of being called an innovation) that the iPhone sports.
I think you're overestimating the size of the Apple fanboy market.
Look at how I've been modded and how you've been modded. Every post I've ever authored here that has been even slightly critical of Apple even as an aside gets modded this way.
That crowd certainly exists, but you're going to have a hard time convincing me that everyone who's got an iPhone got it just because it has an Apple logo on the back. That crowd was tapped out in the first couple weeks or so. The iPhone must be offering something to people that's making so many of them spend money on it.
Do the research. Compare the features to Nokia, Soney Ericson and other large brands. I fail to see how anyone that does an unbiased feature comparison can take a new and unproven phone missing many features considered to be industry standard over something with a proven track record.
But I'm sorry to interrupt. Please continue telling us all the details of your phone contract so we can fully comprehend how much smarter you are than everyone else.
And _I'm_ considered the troll here? Please point to where I said I was smarter than others. I said I was frustrated that smarter people allow themselves to fall into the brand loyalty trap.
It is a long-standing American tradition to run home-based businesses, invent things in home workshops, etc.
In other words, fuck off and die, you fascist!
People need to know when to stop typing. The first line is succinct and makes the point. The second line wasn't necessary and makes you look like a crackpot abusive troll (when I'd lay bets you're not). You did yourself a huge disservice with that second line, even if it was modded up.
I have zero sympathy for those that buy a technically inferior product without evaluating it because it happens be made by their favourite company (which has never treated the customer right in the first place). If intelligent people choose to become members of the cult of the turtle neck, buy an overpriced technically inferior phone missing features so common they are considered industry standard, and overpay for the usage charges because brand loyalty has driven demand through the roof, nothing is going to protect them from their own stupidity. There's more to a phone than a gimmicky interface more suited to a mp3 player.
Keep your faulty iPhones, I'll stick to my Nokia 6220 classic which I researched to death before buying (and which still has the odd quirk but nothing I can't live with and only one minor bug I wasn't aware of when I bought it). No brand loyalty here by the way. I turned down spending an extra $20/month on an n95 8gb despite some nifty features, because the piece of turd only does USB 1.1. I wanted a phone not a sad gimmick. It seems phones will do everything these days except make voice and video calls properly.
I expect this to be modded flamebait, but everyone that does that knows what I'm saying is true, and I'm certainly not just intending to aggravate people. I'm just sick of intelligent people feeding companies that will turn around and fuck them.
Most people who made mix tapes or taped songs off the radio knew that was illegal too, but it was so loosely enforced and considered such a petty thing that that they just did it anyway. Who's going to dob them in anyway? The person they had a crush on that they made the tape for?
You rabbit on about the evening news etc. but have conveniently ignored my point about FBI warnings on video etc. I don't think it's even possible to grow up in a developed country without having seen one of those since you can't skip the bastard things. For that matter how many people can buy or download music without being confronted by copyright warnings? They're even teaching these things in the schools now. You assume the general public who doesn't have an interest in computing is stupid. They're not stupid. Just disinterested. Walk into a typical home and ask them if downloading music for free is legal. Most people know it's not, and will probably admit to it if they aren't worried about being prosecuted.
You know what. I've done this too many times to continue to argue with you. Some people who post here are opinionated and have hours to argue over nonsense like a broken record. If you wish to continue to insist that people don't copying music is illegal, go ahead. It doesn't make what you say any more true.
Actually, that's perfectly legal in my state so long as it's not done for hire.
Here if you're caught you'd practically be shot.
Well, is it or is it not an extreme case? Make up your mind!:-)
You try arguing while sleep deprived (first newborn baby). If you can gather what I meant, take it at face value that I slipped. If you can't I'm too sleep deprived to care.
As for how many times, I suppose about as many times as you claim (or imply) that to the average person the illegality of downloading music is as obvious as the illegality of killing someone.
Oh give me a break. You know perfectly well that most people are aware that downloading for free isn't legit. There's been plenty of publicity about people being sued. There are disclaimers on the video, and plenty of copyright notices for anyone who's bought, bored or stolen a CD.
Now you're making my point, that it isn't unreasonable for the common man to believe that using the software for it's intended purpose would be legal.
...will know what to do with your odds and ends. Find a teacher that's passionate about teaching. (They still exist in most places, but are rare. One that runs a science club in their own time would be a good bet).
Of course, because a single exception anywhere in the world would rip the entire fabric of space -time.
That's not the only exception. You know that despite your sarcasm.
More seriously, a person who can't figure out that there might be an exception in the case of taking a human life would have to be too damned stupid to figure out which end of the gun to hold and which to point.
That was an extreme example to make a point. Lots of tools can be misused in an illegal way. How about pliers used to do your own electrical wiring (without an electrician's license).
But, of course most people are intelligent enough to understand that extreme cases like taking a human life or inflicting grievous harm just might carry a few extra restrictions than listening to music would.
OH for pity sake, how many times are you going to make the same damn point? It's not an extreme case. It's not the only example of a tool being used for an intended purpose where that purpose can be illegal under common circumstances.
At the same time, most people would (correctly) presume that the right to buy a gun also implies the right to use it for target shooting at an appropriate gun range.
Yes, now you're talking about common standards and the reasonable man. The trouble with computers is that the common man often knows how to use them but doesn't understand exactly what he's doing. Not so with simple hand tools.
The free to air TV network that has the rights to broadcast the Olympics in Aus are selling a $4000 commemorative jacket in a frame.
Anyway fuck the Olympics. It has become a moneymaking scam, nothing more. The difference between the top 10 places in some sports is seconds (for events that last hours). It's no fun to watch anyway when they're so close to the limit of human ability that it's so damn close.
Yes, but if you use most things for the purpose they were obviously sold to do, you're OK.
So if I buy a gun and kill someone, I should be fine? Nope that logic doesn't fly.
You can buy a radio and listen to music for free (if you can find any). You can also record that music from the radio and nobody will take you to court for it.
It use to be illegal in Aus but they changed the copyright legislation last year, but I didn't pay any attention to whether or not they made it legal because it's not something I have any interest in. (It's still illegal to backup a DVD here).
Slashdot Mirror
then asked to recall which colors they saw, they picked colors brighter and more saturated than those they had been shown
I'm glad it's not the other way around but nor am I surprised. What evolutionary purpose would remembering things as duller and less saturated serve? A depressed creature is easier to kill and eat. Even if they're not they'll last less long through illness or misadventure.
- If you cook Chilli from a recipe it may come out "perfect every time" but it will also get pretty dull.
- A sunny day is a much greater joy in Scotland, where it's a rarity.
I don't have to go where the weather is miserable and eat bad curry to appreciate and enjoy good weather and good curry. I can just vary the recipe a little and travel to where the weather is awful once to get the idea.
People are built to try to improve their lives. Good thing too. You don't think that computer you're using grew on a tree do you? When we make things better we take them for granted and try to make them even better. It's called tenacity and it's not why we're miserable - it's why we got as far as we did. The trick is to know whether something is truly physically possible or wether some schmuck made an ad that tells you it is despite it being a fabrication for the sole purpose of stealing your cash by preying on your gullibility and selling junk.
said "that's above my pay grade."
Can't you take a hint? He just means he wants to be paid more money to be President. :-)
The vast, vast, vast majority of people do not care about the same things as the Slashdot readership.
Shit I'm not talking about hacking a gps. I'm talking about recording and sending pictures and video to family and friends. Most people do want to be able tot do that.
I'm not talking about flac or ogg, writing code for the phone, hacking it or doing anything geeky. I'm talking about being able to view the joke video your mate sends you. If you've got an iPhone and it doesn't play the video format, you're SOL.
So I'm sick and tired of hearing how the features don't matter and only geeks want them. That's a bunch of self-serving self-justifying BULLSHIT. The truth is most people don't want to spend hours researching a phone so chances are they don't even know they want to do it until their friend does it. By that time, if they've bought an iPhone it's too late.
By the way I have a newborn son. I've just sent a multiple sms for the first time. I used the camera on the phone so my wife could see the baby for the first few hours while she was laid up and he was in a humidycrib in the next room. I took heaps of photos of the little guy, and sent a couple of mms. I haven't taken video with the phone but that's because I have a camera that does it better. Am I a geek? Hell yes. Would most people want to be able to do what I just did if it were easy to do? Hell yes.
Um. There are better phones out there. They're feature complete and they play music too. And it has nothing to do with being a Mac user.
By the way do they love it because they're trying to justify the big spend to themselves? Or because they don't know better? Because I don't see how anyone could love a phone that has weak reception, can't send MMS, can't record video, doesn't play well on the network, and doesn't play a bunch of formats that other phones do. Not to mention that it can't make phone calls until you hook it into iTunes, and it doesn't have a battery that an end user is meant to change. (That may be standard for iPods but every phone I've ever owned let you change the battery. C'mon now!)
I don't care why the problems are occuring. What I care about is that people continue to buy the thing despite it's many short comings based on brand loyalty. It seems from everything I've read that this is a lemon of a phone missing basic features (MMS for pity sake?! "Jailbreak" to record video??). Instead of people calling it a lemon, they try to imagine what it would be like if it worked and even justify the lack of features. If people continue to do that, what incentive is there for a company to actually produce a working product instead of a hunk of junk? It costs less money to make a broken piece of junk and market it well. In the end the market becomes saturated with iRubbish and we all suffer.
Different features are seen in different light at different wavelengths.
For an everyday example: I am using an old video camera with infra-red "night-vision" mode as a baby monitor. My newborn can sleep in the dark and I can still tell if he's breathing from the other room without disturbing him. If I switch back to "normal" colour spectrum, I see nothing but a black screen. That's because my baby emits and reflects differently in infra-red than he does in visible light.
Well objects in space are much more extreme. They don't live in the same 50 degree celicius range that we humans almost always do. Temperatures range from just above absolute zero to millions of degrees. They don't live at almost exactly the same distance from our sun like we do. Within our own solar system, the further you go from the sun the less reflected light there is and the harder it is to capture images of large objects in visible light because there is less of it. (Ever tried to capture pictures at night or in a rock concert. If there's no fast motion you take long exposures, but if there is you're hosed. Well think about how fast space craft move).
So instead of give up altogether scientists turn to other wavelengths and see that some features show up better in different frequencies, and in space that works well. If you want to see what the sky looks like at different frequencies, take a look here. They have images of much of the sky at different wavelengths.
http://skyview.gsfc.nasa.gov/docs/easy.html
http://skyview.gsfc.nasa.gov/cgi-bin/query.pl
Unfortunately here on earth the atmosphere absorbs too much at most frequencies so a lot of observation is limited to use in orbital observatories and spacecraft.
Note: I have an Astronomy masters but have never worked in the field. I did the degree "for fun".
I can behave predictably down to the last atom, but that action can still be the result of free will. For example I can always choose to not to jump off a cliff, and I can make that choice in the same way each time, and therefore that can be predictable. However each time my ability to reason it out is what makes it my choice, and that is what I talk about if I talk about free will. It has nothing to do with predictability, or even the number of choices presented. It has everything to do with my ability to reason it out and make the choice.
We took this spectacularly attractive blonde chick and wrote software that "automatically" turned her neutral facial expression (or slight scowl) into a smile. While we were at it we improved the symmetry of her face. Now she's gorgeous! We're brilliant!
But that's not all. We also took this African American guy and automatically plugged in a different African American guy's face that had the exact same pose. We're Gods I tell you!
That's lazy. Typical mod will read it and say, "Do the research? I already know what's out there and this guy's a troll." Sucks maybe, but that's how it is. I however, did do some research, and I found your beloved Nokia 6220 Classic has a weak battery life with a talk time of only 3.5 hours.
That's lazy? But it's reasonable to expect me to list out a feature comparison of every phone out there vs the iPhone?
The worst thing you could find about the 6220 classic is 3.5 hours talk time? I don't know how you use your phone but if I spent 3.5 hrs/day on the phone I'd be re-mortgaging my house. Did you check the standby time? In practical use I can go 3 or 4 days without charging it. 8 hours talk time vs 3.5 realistically means I have to charge my phone twice a week instead of once. Usually I just put it on charge every night and be done with it.
Whereas the buggy crap radio chipset on the iPhone means you get 1 bar of signal when everyone else is getting full signal. Which phone would I rather? Let me just think about it.
Do you see what I did there? I made a specific point and backed it up. It gets attention and it's way different than saying generic insults like, "the Nokia 6220 Classic isn't good enough in some areas," and it is different than saying, "your phone sucks, here's a bunch of links to prove it." Big difference.
Yes I did see what you did there. You made a weaker point, provided less backup (at least when asked to, I pointed to links instead of just pointing to a figure without stating my source), and then were condescending about it to boot. Another thing: If you pointed me to a better phone I'd have NO problem at all saying yes, you're right, wish I'd seen that before I bought. Not so with the iPhone and it's fans.
Finally, don't get angry so easily. It's just an internet forum and getting angry makes you look stupid, which I have no reason to believe you actually are.
As you said, a certain number of the mods actually agreed with you, so all you really have to do is say stuff in a way that doesn't attract troll mods and you'll get modded up. Even if I think your point was rather inane (although half of it was probably right).
Look I'm not here to abuse anyone or feign superiority. I hold nothing against you personally. However I am tired of people continually saying how fantastic Apple products are. I've bought Apple products twice in my life. An Apple IIe when I was 8 years old, which was overpriced and only to see Apple pull software sales from non-Apple outlets (essentially meaning I'd be lucky to be able to buy software twice a year), and a pair of iPods (for my wife and I) which also have been problematic (my clickwheel doesn't work. Hers had to be returned). There are people on this discussion board that could run circles around me in terms of technical knowledge and expertise, but some of those same people will buy bad product based on brand and then fool themselves (and others) into thinking that it's superior. That really gets my goat. It brings down the quality of all products on the market and gives me less choice while rewarding bad behaviour from companies. Why would any company go to the extra trouble and expense of making a good product when a bad one sells just as well?
You got modded flamebait because your post was flamebait.
Check the moderation.
40% Flamebait
30% Informative
30% Overrated
In other words at least 3 people (and likely more) found what I said informative. It's just that jackass Apple fanboys like yourself can't fucking stand it when someone criticizes their pet company. It's pathetic. Truly pathetic. Happens every time I criticize Apple. It gets modded up then the zealots shoot it down. Grow the fuck up. Not every opinion that is contrary to yours is flamebait jackass.
You called the iphone technically inferior, said it is missing industry standard features, and implied that the only reason people buy it is because of brand loyalty (and that nothing can protect them from their stupidity).
Correct on technically inferior. Correct on missing DEFACTO standard features. Correction it's only this popular due to brand loyalty. If the same phone were sold by another company it wouldn't take off. I stand by what I said.
our main points weren't what got you modded flamebait. It was the fact that you didn't back any of them up. Is the iphone technically inferior? Is it missing 'industry standard' features? You didn't even bother to list the industry standard features it is missing. Are you lazy, or are you unable to back up your points? Back up your arguments with reality and you will do much better getting the mods to understand you.
Oh I'm sorry fuck for brains. I forgot that I was writing a thesis. Oh wait it's just an internet discussion. The irony of you calling me lazy (not even bothering to ask me for proof) is just sweet. Go google iPhone missing features. Too lazy? Look at my other followup posts. Too lazy? Pot. Kettle Black. Typical fanboy! Here then:
http://blogs.zdnet.com/Apple/?p=1849 [zdnet.com]
http://red66.com/2008/06/7-missing-features-from-the-iphone-3g/ [red66.com]
http://blogs.zdnet.com/Apple/?p=390
http://www.google.com.au/search?hl=en&q=iphone+missing+features&btnG=Google+Search&meta=
Would you like a rag to wipe that egg off your face? Or are you going to spout some weak defensive garbage about those not being industry standard features, or not being important to most people. (Catch cry of the Apple fanboy, if Apple don't have it, it's not important)
Your final point is going to be hard to back up, because it goes against a lot of people's practical experience. I don't have an iPhone (because I prefer very small phones), but it does everything I need it to do well (make phone calls, check email), and it looks cool and is fun to use besides. Frankly I have no idea why you like the Nokia 6220 classic. I suppose it fits your needs, which is fine, but some people want something different.
I already have backed it up. My phone has features the iPhone doesn't. I didn't need to hook it into a computer to make outgoing calls (fucking lame!!! a phone that doesn't make calls out of the box, but needs to be hooked up to a computer!). I can send MMS. I can take pictures at 5 megapixel which will make the iPhones 2 megapixel pictures look like ASS. I can record video without "jailbreaking" the thing. I can send a fucking MMS. THAT is why I like it.
So, personally, since I like the iphone, and I am not caught up in brand loyalty, therefor it is going to be hard to convince me that everyone who has bought an iphone did it because of brand loyalty.
Not enough to buy it. You don't even own an iPhone and you're defending it! Looks like fun my left nut. Why don't you just buy a turtleneck, tattoo the Apple logo on your forehead and be done with it.
Because you come across as a man who isn't con
You can't judge the relative worth of different products just by going down a feature checklist. A swiss army knife has many more features than an 8" chef knife, but which one would you rather use to cut up some onions?
Apples and oranges. Specialist tool vs generalist tool. If I could only have one I'd rather have the swiss army knife UNLESS all I was doing was cutting up food. The iPhone and other phones are both specialist tools made for making phone calls that have additional features. Your comparison doesn't fly.
And you weren't being critical of Apple, you were being critical of the millions of people who've bought an iPhone.
Actually I was doing both. Go re-read.
You can't dismiss numbers like that with something as basic as "brand loyalty." All those people aren't going out and handing over hundreds of dollars because the iPhone was shiny enough that it shut their brain off (OK, some are, but not the majority)
Oh really? Explain why companies are willing to pay so much for superbowl ads and the like then. Plenty of otherwise intelligent people have been conditioned into buying based on brand and following the trend.
I should have been clearer I own a 6220 classic (not original version) which is a new phone. I've had it about a month and a half. Nokia has been re-using model numbers which does lead to confusion but the fault was mine for not being clear in the first place.
My phone has:
- Good loudspeaker function
- 5 MP camera (well timed to conincide with the arrival of my first born, though for anything but happy snaps I use a "real" camera)
- MP3 player etc. (again well timed to help soothe the child. I never use to use mp3 playback for much other than ringtones)
- Text to speech (Nifty but gimmicky)
- MMS is no problem (Very useful)
- Video is no problem (Haven't used it much yet)
- 2nd camera for conference (though I haven't switched on video calls with my provider).
- Runs symbian OS apps
- Decent calendar and alarm system (though the lack of ability to copy calendar entries from one date to anther is an irritation)
- Timed profiles. Very important to me as I have to set the phone to silent for meetings but often forget to switch it back if it's not an automatic thing.
For me a phone: First is a phone. No excuses for any missing features for placing and making simple calls and sending text/occasional MMS. Second it's an alarm/calendar for less important stuff like putting out the bins on a Monday night. Third it's a camera for snapshots or unexpected photo opportunities (or copying a whiteboard at work), but not for serious photography. Distant fourth its a music player if I'm bored.
That said I probably spoke a moment too soon. The thing just rebooted accepting a call. It's never done that before. I hope that's a one off glitch, but murphy's law's a bitch.
I thought we already covered that a zillion posts ago! The whole thread started with the thought that people who have bought P2P software and even paid for accounts would presume the licensing was covered, so the FBI warning wouldn't apply. You send money to iTunes and it's legal to download music there. You pay for an account with Kazaa and it's legal to download music there...(oops)
We did and you missed the point (on purpose) that any tool or service you procure can probably be used illegally if you don't know what you're doing. Everything from a simple knife (carried past airport security to cut steak) to a car (driven on the wrong side of the road or without a license) to alcohol (consumed in a public place where it is prohibited). Just because I pay for something, doesn't mean I can blindly use it while ignoring the law.
No, I assume they know less about computers and the legal issues swirling around them. Much like I know less than Tiger Woods about golf.
I'd expect you to know something about golf if you owned a set of clubs, or at least be in the process of learning if you're actively using them.
We probably have reached an impasse in the discussion, but it's not worth bursting an aneurysm over! I hereby agree to disagree.
Probably best.
Perhaps you can't comprehend plain English but I certainly have no issue with others making an informed purchase, nor do I define my intelligence by my purchases. Go and re-read my post if you truly think otherwise and aren't just trolling.
What I have a problem with is people falling for this brand loyalty crap and therefore pushing up the price and down the quality of phones on the market through pure supply and demand dynamics. Oh and I have a real problem with twits like yourself who can dish out criticism but can't take it, to the point where they have to misrepresent the other person's argument in an attempt to look superior.
Please do tell me what your magic iPhone does that my cheaper inferior phone can't do?
Let me give you a list of things that I can do that you can't
Here's are a couple of lists of features you're missing "chap"
http://blogs.zdnet.com/Apple/?p=1849
http://red66.com/2008/06/7-missing-features-from-the-iphone-3g/
Feel free to google for more.
I must admit that of that list my 6220 classic doesn't do wi-fi, and that was disappointing, but not a deal breaker for me especially given the price point.
But go ahead, pay through the nose for it, and enjoy your missing features. A touch screen would be a welcome addition but since I learnt to use a keypad as a child, you can keep your touch screen interface which is probably the only significant advantage (not even worthy of being called an innovation) that the iPhone sports.
I think you're overestimating the size of the Apple fanboy market.
Look at how I've been modded and how you've been modded. Every post I've ever authored here that has been even slightly critical of Apple even as an aside gets modded this way.
That crowd certainly exists, but you're going to have a hard time convincing me that everyone who's got an iPhone got it just because it has an Apple logo on the back. That crowd was tapped out in the first couple weeks or so. The iPhone must be offering something to people that's making so many of them spend money on it.
Do the research. Compare the features to Nokia, Soney Ericson and other large brands. I fail to see how anyone that does an unbiased feature comparison can take a new and unproven phone missing many features considered to be industry standard over something with a proven track record.
But I'm sorry to interrupt. Please continue telling us all the details of your phone contract so we can fully comprehend how much smarter you are than everyone else.
And _I'm_ considered the troll here? Please point to where I said I was smarter than others. I said I was frustrated that smarter people allow themselves to fall into the brand loyalty trap.
It is a long-standing American tradition to run home-based businesses, invent things in home workshops, etc.
In other words, fuck off and die, you fascist!
People need to know when to stop typing. The first line is succinct and makes the point. The second line wasn't necessary and makes you look like a crackpot abusive troll (when I'd lay bets you're not). You did yourself a huge disservice with that second line, even if it was modded up.
I have zero sympathy for those that buy a technically inferior product without evaluating it because it happens be made by their favourite company (which has never treated the customer right in the first place). If intelligent people choose to become members of the cult of the turtle neck, buy an overpriced technically inferior phone missing features so common they are considered industry standard, and overpay for the usage charges because brand loyalty has driven demand through the roof, nothing is going to protect them from their own stupidity. There's more to a phone than a gimmicky interface more suited to a mp3 player.
Keep your faulty iPhones, I'll stick to my Nokia 6220 classic which I researched to death before buying (and which still has the odd quirk but nothing I can't live with and only one minor bug I wasn't aware of when I bought it). No brand loyalty here by the way. I turned down spending an extra $20/month on an n95 8gb despite some nifty features, because the piece of turd only does USB 1.1. I wanted a phone not a sad gimmick. It seems phones will do everything these days except make voice and video calls properly.
I expect this to be modded flamebait, but everyone that does that knows what I'm saying is true, and I'm certainly not just intending to aggravate people. I'm just sick of intelligent people feeding companies that will turn around and fuck them.
Most people who made mix tapes or taped songs off the radio knew that was illegal too, but it was so loosely enforced and considered such a petty thing that that they just did it anyway. Who's going to dob them in anyway? The person they had a crush on that they made the tape for?
You rabbit on about the evening news etc. but have conveniently ignored my point about FBI warnings on video etc. I don't think it's even possible to grow up in a developed country without having seen one of those since you can't skip the bastard things. For that matter how many people can buy or download music without being confronted by copyright warnings? They're even teaching these things in the schools now. You assume the general public who doesn't have an interest in computing is stupid. They're not stupid. Just disinterested. Walk into a typical home and ask them if downloading music for free is legal. Most people know it's not, and will probably admit to it if they aren't worried about being prosecuted.
You know what. I've done this too many times to continue to argue with you. Some people who post here are opinionated and have hours to argue over nonsense like a broken record. If you wish to continue to insist that people don't copying music is illegal, go ahead. It doesn't make what you say any more true.
Actually, that's perfectly legal in my state so long as it's not done for hire.
Here if you're caught you'd practically be shot.
Well, is it or is it not an extreme case? Make up your mind! :-)
You try arguing while sleep deprived (first newborn baby). If you can gather what I meant, take it at face value that I slipped. If you can't I'm too sleep deprived to care.
As for how many times, I suppose about as many times as you claim (or imply) that to the average person the illegality of downloading music is as obvious as the illegality of killing someone.
Oh give me a break. You know perfectly well that most people are aware that downloading for free isn't legit. There's been plenty of publicity about people being sued. There are disclaimers on the video, and plenty of copyright notices for anyone who's bought, bored or stolen a CD.
Now you're making my point, that it isn't unreasonable for the common man to believe that using the software for it's intended purpose would be legal.
Not what I was saying at all, and you know it.
...will know what to do with your odds and ends. Find a teacher that's passionate about teaching. (They still exist in most places, but are rare. One that runs a science club in their own time would be a good bet).
Of course, because a single exception anywhere in the world would rip the entire fabric of space -time.
That's not the only exception. You know that despite your sarcasm.
More seriously, a person who can't figure out that there might be an exception in the case of taking a human life would have to be too damned stupid to figure out which end of the gun to hold and which to point.
That was an extreme example to make a point. Lots of tools can be misused in an illegal way. How about pliers used to do your own electrical wiring (without an electrician's license).
But, of course most people are intelligent enough to understand that extreme cases like taking a human life or inflicting grievous harm just might carry a few extra restrictions than listening to music would.
OH for pity sake, how many times are you going to make the same damn point? It's not an extreme case. It's not the only example of a tool being used for an intended purpose where that purpose can be illegal under common circumstances.
At the same time, most people would (correctly) presume that the right to buy a gun also implies the right to use it for target shooting at an appropriate gun range.
Yes, now you're talking about common standards and the reasonable man. The trouble with computers is that the common man often knows how to use them but doesn't understand exactly what he's doing. Not so with simple hand tools.
sell your snake oil somewhere else
The free to air TV network that has the rights to broadcast the Olympics in Aus are selling a $4000 commemorative jacket in a frame.
Anyway fuck the Olympics. It has become a moneymaking scam, nothing more. The difference between the top 10 places in some sports is seconds (for events that last hours). It's no fun to watch anyway when they're so close to the limit of human ability that it's so damn close.
Yes, but if you use most things for the purpose they were obviously sold to do, you're OK.
So if I buy a gun and kill someone, I should be fine? Nope that logic doesn't fly.
You can buy a radio and listen to music for free (if you can find any). You can also record that music from the radio and nobody will take you to court for it.
It use to be illegal in Aus but they changed the copyright legislation last year, but I didn't pay any attention to whether or not they made it legal because it's not something I have any interest in. (It's still illegal to backup a DVD here).